 to start. Okay. All right. Thank you. So first things first, given given these times, I have to read this little script, which is to say that pursuant to the governor Baker's order of March 12 2020, suspending certain provisions of the open meeting law, general law chapter 30 a section 18. This meeting of the TAC is being conducted via remote participation. Roll call to check that everybody's there. The video and your so everybody's video and audio is working okay. The meeting is going to be recorded and maybe shown on Amherst media and broadcasts the town of Amherst on the town of Amherst YouTube channel. Cool. So I'm going to call the meeting to order. And so people, oh, if anybody's on phone, nobody's on a phone, you press star nine to raise your hand. And this says, you know, if you're not speaking, be muted so that we don't get the background noise. That hasn't been a real problem for us yet. All right. Thank you all very much for Ohio for coming tonight. And thank you, Amber, for the agenda, which is the call to order. I don't have any announcements or public comments. Does anybody have anything that they want to say before we continue before we launch? I see Tracy's hand is up. Hi, Tracy. Hi. Could we just, I know the town council does this and it seems really helpful on our agendas, could we, could we please include the link to the meeting? The what? On our posted agendas, can we include the zoom link to the meeting? Oh, I just the council, the council always does that. It seems it's kind of, you know, one stop shopping to have it all like with the agenda. Yeah, I'll do that from here on out, Tracy. That's no problem. Okay, thank you. Well, I don't know. This seems like such a vulnerable meeting to be bombed. I don't know. Does that, does that open us up to, to trolls? No, because you're in zoom webinar format, which is, and the town is super strict about its settings. Yeah. Good. Thank you. That's a good idea. And that way, I'll actually be able to find it, which I wasn't able to tonight. Thank you. Go for it. But you can't, but Aaron, you can't log in as a panelist unless you use the link that Amber gave you or Amber elevates you to be a panelist. I got it. He's taking care of me. Let's see. There are no, no hearings. I don't want to have any hearings. There are no minutes yet. Am I looking at the right agenda? Yes, I am. The organization, which we took care of last week. And so getting right down to the thing that I sent around to all of you. So I, I spoke with Paul on election day, we had, we had some downtime. Actually, that's not true. We stole from downtime because it was very busy. And just trying to get a sense of, you know, how, how, you know, what the next steps are, what, what we can do to get some, to begin to encourage some decisions to be taken. And this, the charge, the idea of rewriting the charge is, is a big step in that because, and maybe Darcy can help with this a little bit. There's not really a consensus on how the council will use the TAC or the TSO, or the TSO will take advantage of, of the TAC. The idea of putting the, of the charge of creating the charge and simplifying that, that as I put it though, everything and the kitchen sink charge that we had into this was to give them a handle to hang on to and say, okay, yes, this is, this is a good idea. This is not a good idea. We're going to change that and, and then off we go. So I'm glad to see you here Darcy tonight. I thought, I thought we were in a, in a, one of those weeks where we, both meetings happen at the same time, the TSO and the TAC. Yeah, it does. I'm, I'm going to have to leave it quarter after six, the meeting starts at 6.30. Okay. So, well, I'm glad, I'm glad you're able to get here at the beginning. So when I say all of this, you can say, you nuts, that's not what's going on at all. But the, the idea. So, so that's what I wanted when we go over the charge tonight. That's kind of the, the central idea that I want to keep is that we are making a suggestion, which we'll bring to the TSO. I think the process, which is not yet formed, but it's going to be along the lines of going to the TSO and saying, here it is, let's have our, have a discussion about, you know, where this is sufficient, where it's inadequate, where we're off base, where we need more support, more, you know, whatever, and then let that get fed up to the council as they take their decision about, I guess it's committees in general. We're not the only group that are in this, in this, in this position of sort of not, not having a charge being handed down to us and say go. So I'm not feeling, I guess I'm not feeling single out. Still anxious, I still am wanting to get to work and, and take advantage of all of your time and do something constructive and helpful for the town. So that's, that is what the underlying thinking was to the draft that I sent all of you. And I appreciate the comments that I got back, especially, I mean, yes, I got to capitalize public way, I'm doing that because there's, that's an emphasis, I think that's important. And, and, you know, there's, there's a lot of shortening that happens, had to go on, thank you, Kim. And there was some clarification, which I wanted to speak to tonight when we get down to that paragraph. But none of you said, this is nuts. This is not what I want to do. This is, this is kind of, it feels like, you know, this is generally what we want the tack to do that, that, that charge. And so I wanted to start with that question first to make sure that it's asked specifically. Because we haven't, I haven't asked it, that's not been asked before yet. But, and so I can't remember who it was who wanted to edit the four points that the were in the report. I didn't want to do that because that's a verbatim, that's a quote from that report, from that finding. I forget who, who suggested that. And yes, what follows in the charge does not match with those four points exactly. And I, I hope that's not a problem, because the points were made at a different time when we have a different understanding report, you know, it was what seven years ago now, happened at a different, and so I don't want to edit the points, even though they're not exactly on, they are literally what we all saw, what was sent to the, the select board and what is in the, the archives for anybody who cares to look at TAC stuff. And yes, what follows doesn't match exactly, but I think reflects the, what I think, and I hope we all can agree on some, some version of that, our charge or, you know, what our work should be. So, so Darcy, how's that? Is that, is that working? Yeah, yeah. I think that, you know, we're perfectly willing to wait until you feel comfortable with what you want to put forward. I don't think there's any rush on our end. And I also don't actually think that you need to, to put off doing some substantive work if you see something that needs to be done, but that's, I, that I'm supposed to just be a liaison. So, these are liaison differently than other committees. Yeah, I have multiple hats because I'm the liaison from the ECAC and the liaison from the council. So, yeah, okay. So, but I think you're doing, you know, you're going in a fine direction. Yeah. And so then, then what, what's on the, also on the agenda for tonight, I wanted to us to actually next after we've talked about the charge is to look at, sort of revisit, review our intake process because that's, that's a big thing of what I see us doing. Yes, Kim. I like that. That's kind of fun. It's a Eve had a question. Sorry. Oh, so I thought that was your hand, Kim. Thanks, Kim. Darcy, I'm wondering if you can help me understand and in terms of process, I should say I'm not an official member of the committee and I didn't, I wasn't invited to give Aaron comments. So anyway, so I'll just say I'm seeing this for the first time and thinking about it for the first time. But Darcy, what's your, can you help me understand more than what Aaron's already told us, obviously, about sort of why it's important to redo this? Because the previous charge was actually built out of the same document that Aaron's tapping now and out of the same process. And, you know, there are things that are being added and things that are being taken out and I'm not sure or exactly what that's about or why that's needed. Well, the council did way back when we first were seated. The governance and legislation committee just urged town committees to relook at their charges to update them so they didn't say select board anymore and so on. And they created a template, but it wasn't required, it was just suggested. So I think that that's a piece of what is happening, suggest, you know, being suggested by the town, mostly the town manager from what I can tell, because the council has not officially done anything, said anything or have any opinion. Yeah, I would add to that that I went to a TSO meeting, a number of, was it five weeks ago now, and had a long talk about that with them. They're very generous with their time. I think we may have taken more time on this than they had planned, but I do appreciate it because a number of things came out of that meeting. And I spoke to it with, did you, were you not there even about any event? We spoke on the tack about what Tracy and I had seen that night and heard. Yeah, no, I was there when you reported on it. This is really a response, is my response, my suggested response to all of that stuff that we picked up. And really what I'm anxious for is sort of the truth that the reality check that, yes, I heard and said these things, Tracy heard and said some things in the meeting, and that this in fact reflects that. And it goes maybe a little bit beyond that because there's some other things that you can see when you're with people in a room. And like I said, I have spoken with Paul to get a sense of what he's thinking about and trying to pull it all together so that because not only because of that suggestion a long time ago by the town council to rewrite all of the charges, but also sort of realizing that the TSO is taking some overlapping, which is fine, has taken some overlapping responses in our old charge. So trying to undo that a little bit, put us into a logical place. So, Kim. Oh, you got to push them up button. To TSO, Town, how services and organization, organization, that's right. Town, what no reach outreach, pretty. Okay, thank you. Town services and outreach. So their their charges is was even broader than ours. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty wide ranging, but parking is in it. It's one of the things I wrote it out a while ago, and I forget now, but parking was one of the things in it. And then so that's why we talked about that. We talked about parking what we think our role in parking might be. So actually, thank you, Eve, for that question. I don't mind recapping and rethinking and getting getting it, you know, so solidified. And I would just add that the only reason that it came up on an agenda of the TSO was because of the timing. It was put on as a future agenda item when it looked like tech wasn't meeting anymore. And so it was on the agenda to talk about is tech going to meet anymore. And so, but by the next our next meeting tech had already met. So it was a little moot when it came up at the TSO. And we ended up just talking about like, how do we compliment each other? So. And so this is our attempt to do that, to figure out what that compliment is and how to put it into words. And really, part of my anxiety is, and you sort of talk this a little bit, Darcy, my anxiety is that there are things going on that tech really could help and maybe should be helping understand and figure out and just sort of going on and happening and well, we'd like to catch up on some of the whatever we can. Any event. Yes, Kim. Well, I think I think the point is that we've been meeting as a committee, which really we consist of only a group of concerned like members of the town. We like transportation issues because we each have our own like thing that we're really into. And we've been meeting for a long time. And and what I've realized is that these issues are much more complex than what they seem on the surface. And I can't see why the town council would want to deal with a lot of these things because there's so much like history and and connectedness that I've I've realized because, you know, that I think that the town council really needs to lean on us as a committee who's done all this background work and has invested years into this. That's, you know, and I'm not sure how to convey that appropriately. But like, I wouldn't want to just step into this and start dealing with these issues because we know where to begin. And we've been thinking about this a lot. And we're so diverse. And just a great group of people are just concerned. We don't have an agenda. We just want to make it all better. Well, and that's and that's one of the things that I spoke to. And I don't know if the this thing that we're drafting this discharge or drafting is effective at putting that out. But you know, what we're offering, I'm going to put into a nutshell is service. There is a service that we can provide. And that is to do the heavy lifting in figuring out what the good advice is for answering any number of a range of issues that come up around transportation. And that's the original report, you know, 10 years ago, said, Oh, my God, look at all these issues and see how they're intertwined. How are you going to deal with it? And then we said, Well, make some suggestions. And then his follow up report came and said, This is how other places are doing it. And I believe, I don't know, Guilford, if Paul has got you working on this, or he's he's doing a little bit of he's taken that report. And he's going back and looking at those models that, you know, among which we know from which we picked the the TAC. So that's an excellent point, Kim. And, you know, thank you for making it, you know, we're here to do the work. And, you know, I don't know how to to say it gently. The council, the council has no idea what they're getting into when they tackle transportation issues. And we're happy to help. I think you're going to find out as you work your way through the Lincoln Avenue questions. There's I mean, that that's actually very good. That's a good one to start. It's a great example because there's a long history there. There's been many false starts and, you know, try it and some good experiments, just they're good because they showed you what we shouldn't do. And we're happy that you guys are going to do that. And we don't have to deal with it, although, but we would have been as happy to do the, you know, the public out. Oh, and sort of going back to Eve's question, he said in the scatterbrained way, one of one of the one of the issues that the TSO brought up. And it's a good one. And again, I think the charge, as I wrote it, addresses it, I hope effectively, was this concern about going to the public twice for the same reason, you know, having two groups going out doing public outreach. You know, it confusing, well, which is the right one, which is the effective one. And that's that is that is kind of where the the intake for the uptake form. Okay, the uptake form is a start because behind that will be the processes and where the public gets involved and how we would be involving the public. And and also how the town council be involved. We haven't written those processes yet. The charge suggests where we would be doing that, making those, making up making up that system. So, Eve, you're shaking your head. Sorry, I'm trying to take notes and look at documents go back to hearing and so anyway, excuse me, I wasn't shaking my head. I was just looking to my body language is so hard to read on zoom. It is so true. And so, because I haven't been involved in the back and forth about your draft, I was here when you did your presentation in the last tech meeting. So I knew about those four points, but I didn't know what you were going to do. And I would just want to make a suggestion that we actually go through each of the bullets on page two because it seems like that's what's getting left out and make sure there's nothing in there that we don't want to that you don't want to keep in. And then the other thing is, I would suggest that you guys also go back to the vision that the tax passed about three years ago. That very succinct paragraph of the tax vision and think about having that also kind of as a founding concept in addition to those four points. We might figure out how to fold that in because, right, we did spend a lot of time and do a good job on that. And it has some specific content that are not actually reflected. Yeah. Yeah, I thought a lot about that. And it's a good point to get in front of the committee so they can think about it too and maybe do a better job of pulling out what is important in the guiding that the charge is doing. So do we want to start there? I mean, like I say, your comments and I don't know everybody who made comments, if you think that I successfully wrapped them in or not, there were some overlapping and some conflicting and sort of I had to take some decisions and I finally left two up so we get the pick one or modify them. There is an A and a B above something. I forget where I put that. And I mean, first of all, generally, is this broadly, does it seem like this will be effective in saying, look TSO, look Town Council, here is what we can do for you? Kim, you have to push your mute again. Could you share your screen with a document? It would be really useful if we could all just see it at the same time. Which one do you want to start with? The draft that I sent and page one so that you can have the four bullets up. Thanks, Gilfer. Bernie has his hand up too. Okay, I'm going to be distracted for a moment and look over at my others. Oh, look at that. Yes, Bernie. Thank you, Darcy. I'm going to just let it go for now. We're going to talk about these four bullet points and one of the things I was thinking of is I'm looking at the whole thing on the screen here, larger screen, is that if you're going to, we're going to go to the TSO and then ultimately to the commission with a new charge that you, that we might consider abandoning the extensive reference to the old charge and just say this is what we believe we can do. And that would clean things up. And if there's a more recent mission statement, if you will, I think you've referenced, using that as an opening would be helpful. Okay, I like that. So my screen has cut off a lot of people now that we've gone to sharing. But you can slide it like Amber taught us last time. You can slide it along and then you can see everyone. Yeah, it's got a different computer than last time. So I have a question. It's Kim. You know, I understand what you're saying, Bernie, but at the same time, I think it's important if the town council is seeing, is looking at our new charge to kind of understand where the old charge came from. Perhaps Eve could, Eve, if that was your original comment, could you expand on that a little more? Because which comment you apparently Bernie was saying that you were commenting on this part in particular, which part? Oh, Bernie can say what he was talking about. I believe Eve referred to a document admission statement, if you will, it was crafted about three years ago that she said was important. And I think I don't know what that says, but I'll take it on faith that it might be a good way to introduce the new charge rather than rehashing everything that's going on before. And frankly, as we all through, we want to discuss the bullet points, some of these really don't fit at all. And I'm surprised that this is an Elson-Nagard product with what an advisory committee would do. The statement that I have, the statement that we did was a vision statement of what we're aiming for rather than a mission statement of what we do. No, but that's fine. I mean, I think that would be a much clearer presentation where we want to go. And then going back through and redoing a lot of history that I think people are saying isn't really relevant anymore. On this first page, too, we talked about this our last meeting, right? And we agreed that some of these roles are pretty comprehensive and that we as an advisory committee, comprised of volunteers who have full-time lives and are just on the committee, would not be maintaining our own work program and stuff. So I mean, I think it is useful to have that history, but I don't know, to some of the other points that are brought up, I don't know if I would include the whole long list of it because it is sort of taking us away from what our future would look like, I think. Yeah, and I think that Eve's sense that the vision statement kind of is a condensate, that the sense that I'm getting from Eve's suggestion is that that vision statement is a very nice condensation of a lot of our history and how we got from there, from this Nelson Seigard thing to, you know, what we're trying to do today. So I don't know, I'm trying to think if that would make it a less useful, a poorer use of our time to go over this now without that. And I think it's fine to go over this. I think we can still do a lot of good work here and that that will just be a bit of a decoration, a bit of a preamble. Are we not able to chat in this particular form of Zoom? Oh, on the side. Yeah, I think we can chat. I mean, that's a setting that's set by the town and trying to keep this for the chat. But it is helpful when people give that permission. I mean, I could put the vision statement up for a minute, if you want. The vision statement is on the tax webpage on the town. It's not a mission statement. So it doesn't serve the same function, but I still think it's useful to bring up some ideas. Yeah, so I will send it around. I will make sure that everybody has it in their inbox. They don't have to sort through the town website to find it. Maybe it's part of whatever cut up, cut and paste I do with this. So, Bernie, I mean, your point is well taken that where this comes from and where this was heading us, you know, it's interesting that it's interesting to be that it surprises you that after they went through those half a dozen case studies, that this is what they pulled out of those. I wouldn't have picked up on that. But so as an example of something that we're not going to do is right there. Number one, maintaining a work program that was described as being this this comprehensive, super valuable document, if it was ever put together, but a comprehensive list of all the work that's being done to the transportation systems and the status and the assignment and, you know, due dates for all of the tasks that are involved in maintaining and improving the transportation systems. And that, you know, on reflection is impractical. And what we what the tack is developed in is are put into its place is prioritizing and that's that's that's a little bit later on, of course, is prioritizing tasks that we think are important to keep on a priority list and not let go and let other stuff go. I have a question or comment or yes. Yes. Yes. So so I think it's very valuable to have the previous charge and then to have like the kind of statement that you just made, for example, to say, we actually never did the X and Y, you know, we actually never did be one, for example, what we really did what we found we could do as a committee, as a volunteer committee was to establish a priorities list. And that gives us reason to then stay in the in the in our current charge that that's what we're going to do, you know. Okay, so I mean, you know, having our previous charge and then saying why, you know, what the actuality is what we could accomplish as a committee and then saying here's our current charge based on the previous evidence of what we can do. So what we're looking at this first page was was my idea for a cover letter that would pick up that kind of thing. Okay. And I'm hopeful that the actual charge one can infer from that exactly what you're saying that we're not going to do work plan we're going to do this instead because because the charge says we're going to do this. And that it does not look like a work program. Okay, I will I will I will do that I will volunteer to do that. And yeah. Okay, so so I don't know if if we want to so for instance, looking at this page was an A and a B. There were two very different ideas that that I got about how to introduce the four, the four bullets. And I don't know if we want to if we as a group want to get down the level of of picking one of them. Nope, you scrolled away from it. Gilford didn't we have five areas? Did we? Yeah, I thought about them all. We had four in the original. And I thought we talked about a fifth and I cannot remember for the life of me. Well, this okay. So what this is, these are the four that are lifted out of the committee best practices report. And that's that's as far as I wanted to go. The the and that's what I want. That was sort of the starting point. And I wanted to go, you know, the charge to start to start from there and go on. And so I mean, I think what Eve is is would like is the the vision statement. I saw your hand there, Eve, the vision statement does deal with a lot of that. And I call it my my thumbnail sketch of that is called advocacy, but our advocacy for, you know, non-automobile transportation. So, Eve, yep, yeah, exactly. Sorry. So the number five from last time that you had brought up Marcus, I took notes last time was was like a long term planning and big picture thinking. That was basically it. Oh, thank you. Yeah. But I agree, Aaron, that advocacy is another thing that currently isn't really reflected here. And that's really actually what the mission, the vision statement gets that is that advocacy we're aiming towards. And it's not just about alternative transportation, it's really about a whole transportation system that serves everyone everywhere. That's that's yeah. And I we tried to I tried to incorporate that sense of connectedness. The so and that that may be a question for the committee as a whole. What the charge what we're offering is to do is to do a lot of work. And sort of the reward for that is that we get to include the best practices, good ideas, which I think implies completely this this advocacy role that that well is where we've come from. I mean, that could be part of the history that explains how we got to the charge from these four bullets is that and that was in the old charge. In fact, how the the public transportation bicycle and pedestrian committee got folded into specifically folded into this and that we were to select members from that that community of advocates. I didn't know how much I wanted to emphasize that and bring it out when really what I'm what I think we're asking for is to hey, let us do the work. And oh, by the way, you're going to get this. What I think is a fulsome representation of what the community is looking for. I mean, the reason the PTPC came into being is because the committee said, hey, we need to look at this. And so so what do we think about? Does that need to be more than just part of the cover letter when when the charge is really suggesting the work that we're going to do? Sorry, Aaron, does what need to be part of the charge and not just the cover letter? The vision statement. The advocacy component of you know, that you know, we know is there that reflects. And so I mean, this this is this is a way of weighing this and I putting this together sort of weighing the idea that really what I think the town council needs in order when they're forming their decision about the work they're going to bring the TAC is to know what we will do. What are the things that we're going to do? And the responsibility is that we're going to take on. And then the advocacy, which you know, when you go down when we see that vision statement, the advocacy is for not only alternative transportation to the automobile, but also we talked about we have in there issues with handicapped access. We have in there the social justice components is a whole whole bunch of other things, which you know, maybe shouldn't be taken for granted. And maybe it's enough to put them into the the cover letter and not necessary in the charge, given the function, the role of those two things in making this argument, making this pitch to let us get at it, have our work do our work. Yes, Eve. And then Darcy. Sorry. Sorry for potentially talking too much. But yeah, I'm looking around this group and actually you and I and Kim and Tracy were all on the public transit and bicycle committee in the past. That was really the committee that explicitly had advocacy in the charge. And I think it was really valuable and it did mention bicycle, pedestrian transit and disabled access very specifically those four things. And in my mind, that's a really, really important role of the attack. Yes, I agree. But also we got folded into the public works committee, which was more of a nuts and bolts. And I guess what I'm suggesting is that by offering turning the nuts and bolts, you know, advocacy is certainly going to be part of of what this group would bring to it. Now, so yeah, Bruce comes from the public works and planning side, which is more nuts and bolts. So yeah, we're a we're a diverse group. All right. Yes, Bruce. Oh, I'm sorry. Why not put the vision statement before the composition of the group. Start with that. And then you start with the vision and then you go into the practical of how the group is going to be composed and then the charge. What do we think? I see Marcus is I got one. I would say that's that's beautiful because that's that's what we should be doing. Yeah, because then we stayed out front what it is that we see ourselves doing and then we give all the reasons behind it. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. Thank you, Brad. I was going to ask you specifically because, you know, among us, you have the most experience and skill in forming arguments for political considerations. Thank you, I guess. Well, we all have skills, Bruce. We all bring skills to the table and trying to tease out the, you know, who's got which one. And maybe I'm typecasting, I don't know. It may not be fair. I'm hoping that he's comfortable to say, get off. That's perfectly fine. Okay. Yes, I'll do that. Now that brings up an interesting second question, which is, well, is that vision statement as it is what we want? My answer is going to be that yes, probably most of it is, but we may want to know I'm going to say we will massage it so that it fits the new reality better if it needs to mean I mean I don't I don't remember it well enough to to do anything more than suggest that we may not need to Aaron. No, I understand that, but I just want to want to keep that open because it is a different time. It's, you know, three years on. There's been a change and some big changes along the way, even though the fundamentals, I mean, I certainly remember the fundamentals were super valuable. Oh, I think we've lost Darcy. She's gone off to our other meeting. Okay. I've got that task. Yes, TSO is meeting. Yeah, that's, that's an unfortunate thing that our schedule is on fixed weeks of the month and theirs is every other week, you know, but also they postpone their meeting that was scheduled for last week to be this week because they didn't have any agenda items for last week. Oh, is that no? Okay, so that's that's a different reason that they get clashed this week. Okay. Do we want to look at the next page, Hilford, please? So the reason I highlighted that is because there was a question about what, what is that? The in applying for grants. And I think that's a very important question to be clear on. One of the values that I see the transportation to the TAC bringing to the table is the life with the complete streets. I mean, that was that was a policy that we were trying to meet a state driven policy that we were trying to meet. And, and there is value in that we could get grants and blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I'm thinking that that that is that is a lot of I mean, I was reading the paper about how the spray park at this grant or that that subsidy and realize the mechanism is that somebody sat down and did the work to pull together all the requirements. So what we did for complete streets, maybe that needs to be pulled out. So, so, can you ask the question? What you're willing to be will ask the question. So I don't know if that ought to be if you'd like to see it pulled out. Well, I'll get to you, Tracy. If you want that pulled out or now that I've said all of those words to fill in for those four. Well, first of all, it wasn't clear to me what that that part was applying to. So my guess is that so it was just like a really long part of that sentence. And it wasn't clear what in applying for grants like was actually supposed to be attached to. But my guess is that it was help achieve compliance with federal state, federal and state reg it regulations and like our work was helping to do those things so that we then could apply for the town could apply for grants, right? That's really what we meant. It just needs to be a little more succinct and more clear. And I agree that's a super important part of our what we do. What we can do, right? What we would do. What we could do. Yes. And what we have done. Yeah, right. So that might, you know, and I also think like bringing that more closer to the front of what it is that we're doing is because that's a super invaluable part that I don't think, you know, other than the what what Gilford's group does, you know, they also help support that that piece. They're the ones who are actually, you know, getting the statistics and whatever together. But that's, you know, I think that needs to be highlighted a little more because that's a super important part of what we do. And it needs to be made a little more clear. That's what I was saying. So maybe pull it out and rather than being succinct, being a little bit more fulsome. Okay. Certainly. Yes. Yep. Eve. Gilford, would it be possible for you to pull up the current charge and put it next to the existing one so we could look at both at the same time? Oh, I'm almost embarrassed to think about that other charge. Well, the previous charge, you know, was passed by town meeting and it had a lot of good things in it. And there's some specific language changes that I'm not sure why they're there that I think actually really narrow what the vision of what the attack is and does from its current charge. And there it'd be worth just noting that. Great. Thanks, Gilford. So like, that was awesome. The paragraph that says the attack will write on both of these. So like on the new one, it says the tackle address transportation matters brought to it. Whereas the old charge says the attack will deal with all transportation matters. That's a pretty significant change. Yes. And it was it was one that that I inferred from what the TSO was saying need to be made because they were kind of like, whoa, George especially. And the the so what's missing is that language plane planning and other stuff and that got put in that that that I hoped that that was put in when and the if you look on the left side there in the fourth paragraph the fourth clause to engage in planning and transportation for the transportation networks just to to be clear that that's a two separate things going on. We're going to deal with things that we're asked to deal with. And we want to do, you know, sort of take all of that knowledge, all of those things and say, here's here's how we plan for. And what I had in mind, of course, is things like the pedestrian bicycle network on the pedestrian network, those those those big projects that we've been doing. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, guiding means taking somebody else's idea and moving it through, you know, strategic thinking means you create your own ideas and you bring people to it. I think that's where we want to be. We don't want to guide people, but we're going to be out ahead and yeah and direct people. Yeah. Yeah. So what I'm suggesting is we're guiding the improvements. We're not, you know, we're we're planning so that they can be guided or they'd be directed. Yeah. Well, so that's that's I want to be very careful about the idea of directing. One of the sensitivities that I'm sensing from the town council is that they want to be in charge. And the idea that somebody else would be taking their authority and in this case, maybe I'm interpreting it too broadly in the form of directing something. Right. I don't want to I want to I'm I'm very sensitive to that. No, I'm. Your point is well taken, but the verb is just a little bit. Right. We need to get somewhere between guiding and directing. Yes. Yes. Yeah. But I do think that just guiding people to future things doesn't mean that we're doing strategic planning. And that's that. Yeah. So then it's not clear. The point of that clause was that we do the planning and the planning then would do the guiding. Yeah, that needs to be directing. I'm sorry. The planning would do so. I mean, we're we're suggesting and then the council is doing the directing. Right. I mean, right. Right. And ours. Yeah. So so the the the the operation here is to engage in planning and that's the thing that needs to be a little bit more assertive. Yes. Who are the planning? Right. The strategic planning for the town should become from us. The implementation needs to come from the town. We need to nudge them in that direction or whatever we want to say for that. But there needs to be, you know, I can plan for tomorrow and I've planned for the future, but I've not planned strategically. So I need to kind of push that. We are the all all seeing, you know, all knowledge people that can look forward and consider all of the big picture, not just, you know, one particular street or whatever. And I word Smith a little more of that paragraph. No, no, no. Yeah. So yeah, I'm trying to figure out what the how to how to how to do that, how to take those ideas. And so, so yeah. I don't I don't think it's a problem the way that it was phrased earlier because it's an advisory committee. Right. So it's not it's not saying the attack is going to go out and be able to implement a whole bunch of things without the town council's approval. There's also the fact that this has to get approved by the town council. Right. So even if you guys put in that you can think about all transportation matters, you don't have to pre reduce your mission. They can be the ones to tell you, you know what, you're only going to deal with transformation matters that we tell you to deal with. You don't have to put it in your proposed charge. I would keep it broad. Yeah, I agree. Ron and I like the I like the notion of strategic. And maybe a bit of advocacy might be stirred into that as well. I think the advocacy is the outcome of strategic plan. Right. Yeah, that's the strategy. Right. Because I mean, and to your point, Eve, I mean, we aren't guiding, we're advising. I think that's probably a great way of putting everything here. We're advising the town, we're advising people how to move towards the future. The concept that I don't want to lose is that I mean, part of our work has been and I think it's an important part of our work has been to offer guidelines. And now so far, we've only been guiding things like how you do crosswalks and sidewalks and lighting and things like that. But and and I see, for instance, the the pedestrian and bicycle plan as being the guide, so that when there's an opportunity of a capital project, that the design, its design and implementation will be guided to include these strategic plans. That's that's the idea. Yeah, I think the idea might be. I would suggest that guidelines are taken under advisement, you know, based on what we say. So we can wordsmith that, yeah, out of this. All right, I'll put a bubble around. Oh, I know. So so so Marcus, let me just can I hand that off to you? I knew that was coming. You can say no, it's it's okay to say no. Well, I might have to say no, unfortunately, because somebody needs to spend time and it could be me. I'm happy for it to be me. I'm not sure if you all are happy for it to me. That's the thing I would love to help. I just unfortunately given, you know, kids and everything I have. No, it's okay. No, no, no. You know, there's no need to make excuses. Okay. All right. So sorry, I'm just going to wordsmith a couple more places. So in the second line where it says a comprehensive and holistic look, previously again, it was a holistic look at all transportation matters. But in this one, it's current and proposed transportation regulations and policies. So that seemed pretty reduced. And also in the current one, when it does mention regulations and policies, it also mentions initiatives and improvement projects. And that's just gone. So there are a number of like things that have been clearly narrowed. There's another place further down where you said as they affect the use and improvements of Amherst public way. That's important to mention the public way. But the phrase of it suggests that the tack only advises on transportation matters that affect the public way. Whereas there may be transportation matters like off road trails that the attack might want to advise on that aren't part of the public way. I like that. Should that include the public way that include but are not limited to? Well, so the advice that we're I'm hopeful that we're going to be asked to give is specifically to the people who are responsible for the public way and not that other things, the other things. Now, so I mean, this document is speaking to that, I imagine. I thought the tax specifically advises planning as well as the DPW as well as other town and the town council. So it wouldn't only be talking to the DPW. Oh, no, no. Yes, exactly. But in and in matters that involve the public ways. So, you know, when there's a policy or decision about how things are going to be done, guiding the work in, it's not for, you know, DCR when they're putting together the rail trail. Although, I think bringing up that example, we did it. And the select board took that and thank goodness. Some of us remember how that turns out or where it was going and how it turned out. So, okay, that's that's good. All right. I don't know. Now, so that's here. Here's here's the sensitivity that I'm feeling around this. Again, this is that that somebody taking their responsibility. And there the town council's responsibility. So I'm just kind of mindful of that. All right. All right. I mean, in contrast, I thought the end the like what you took out at the end of that paragraph fit very well with our conversation of a couple of weeks ago, you know, where where you guys basically said, you know, we can't be the central point of contact and deal with all transportation matters that any citizen brings up, right. And that's the that's basically the what you took out of that end of that first paragraph. So that fit really well. Yeah. So maybe scroll down to the next section there, Guilford, please. Tasks. Yeah. Oh, not not too far. You don't want to miss the you want to miss that there's one there's one clause above that above what you have on the left. We clause. And I did get a lot of comments on this section. Oh, Bruce. Yes, Bruce. So the problem, Bruce, is that your hand is the same color as your books. I'll have to get new books for next time. I think so. Would you be a little hard to get a new hand? I just had a very minor point under tasks. Instead of saying considerations with other town committees and interests, I thought you could just say consultation with other town committees, period. Oh, I thought I thought I put that in consult consultations with consultation consultation with other town committees, period. I'll get rid of interest. Okay. Yes. Yes. And also consideration should change the consultation. Yeah. So I got I got the consultation, but I did get the interest because those were in your comments from that you sent me and I I tried to get those in. But that's my only comment about that. I got it. Thank you. No, that was that was that was good. Yeah, I appreciated your sort of pulling in things making a little bit tighter. That was good. Yeah. Yes, Kim, you have an inquisitive look. And I thought I saw your hand. Perhaps. But I just thought that one of our major tasks was prioritizing public works projects. I don't see this on this list. Maybe I haven't read it. I thought I, is it down a little bit? Oh, you did read it. I know you read it. Maybe it isn't highlighted enough, but it's under the paragraph that starts with respond to community requests. No, it's at the bottom. It's at the very bottom. And I think that should be closer to the top. That's all because I feel like that's like been our major work over the last year and a half. And it should be up there. Like number two potentially. I think that's a good suggestion. Okay. Okay. That's for you, Guilford. Well, I think Guilford would would like agree that that's been like like that's something that he's really wanted us to do. And I feel like it's something that we've actually accomplished as well, mainly, and it should be up there. Yeah, on the list. It looks to me like it's going to be number three. So the two provides can be together. Okay. Yep. Sure. It just seems like, you know, that's a thing I feel like we've actually done. It should be like high up there because I feel like, like, you know, others would agree. And I feel like that's what we've helped out with the most far other than the long term plans. And this just this that that mysterious legal fine print in the charge and the old charge is a whole bunch of stuff about legal stuff, which I'm going to let whoever's doing that now do that to the boilerplate. Okay. Well, I've got two pages of notes. So I'm wondering about some of the other bullets on the page two of the old charge, like evaluate the Towns Road sidewalk drainage traffic circulation system, public transportation, bicycle facilities to recommend priorities for their maintenance repair extension and reconstruction. I think we've engaged in that and that that's important. Yeah, and and and the town's transfer I imagined. Yeah, I imagine that was all simplified into the planning role that I see for us. The one one of the reactions that that I got from the TSO was, I think that there's in the movie Salieri in the play Salieri, there's about too many notes. And and that's I was getting a sense that this was just too many words to too many little little bits and pieces to this. And so I mean, I very deliberately tried to collapse it down into broad ideas that we would explode in our work, of course, but they don't need to they the Townsville Town Council doesn't need to charge us with doing that. Just do these things. And we pull that out. So, so what do we think? I mean, so granted, I mean, it's much simpler. And I hope not less comprehensive. I mean, do you even mention the transit and the PVT? Yes. Where is that? It's in the composition. Oh, it's in composition. That's not where I that's not where you wanted to. It's a first and under charge. It's one of the first it's the first thing that we're advising on. Oh, so but it needs to be that we also advise the town's representative to the Pioneer Valley Transit Authority. Yeah, so that's that's the kind of detail that I pulled out. I didn't think we needed to say that for maintaining access to it. That would be what we decide we're allowed to decide to do as part of our procedure. And my concern is you guys may be narrowing your power in significant ways that are going to limit the ability of a volunteer body who is thinking strategically and holistically to influence what happens. I hear that, Eve. Yeah, I agree. I didn't think about those things before. Thanks. I can see that point too. So the question is so I agree also with with Aaron's point that we need that it's that it's okay to simplify this charge a bit, you know, like just the number of words. So so I think that what we need to do is to make sure that our charge is associated with all the areas that we are have historically been associated with, right? Do you understand, Aaron? I mean, like so our charts do simplified, but the preamble to that should include all these various realms, including, you know, the PVTA public transportation and as well as the, you know, the non-public way as far as rail trails and things like that. I, you know, because we because the fact is we've all thought about this a lot more than regular people. Yeah, the other fact is that it impacts the public way because, you know, I know and I don't know if I've been effective in sort of explaining it, you know, you can't when you pull on any thread, you're going to unravel the whole thing. You know, the intersection at West Street is related to the intersection of Pomeroy, you know, and that's that's something that we offer and maybe need to expand that in in our suggestion as to the work that we get to do. Okay. I'm going to, oh boy, so yes, Bruce. I'm just going to make a quick suggestion. Maybe the use of the word, the tack will provide an overview and then enlist some of the policies that Eve was mentioning that that might be a way of maybe getting things in a succinct paragraph. If there are some areas that have been left out of the current version that were in the old charge may be incorporate some of that by saying this is we will provide an overview of these policies and then just list, you know, a few of them or edit them in some way. Yeah. Okay. So, so would you guys be willing to maybe entertain me and just look at the bullets from the old charge that start with evaluate based on recommendations from there down to the one that says foster public awareness and just see if you feel like those are important things to include down to where Eve the foster public. Yeah. There are a lot of good things there. Yeah. And there are all things that we've considered in the past, like in the recent past, you know. I mean, if you, if you wanted to edit a little but instead of listing all of the various people in the town government, you could just say town officials, you know, if that would help just edit a little bit. And I really like bullet points. No, I like, I mean, yeah, I really like it with bullets too. It would be better in a little more spaces or indenting or something. So it's like easier to read. I mean, it seems to me like it's a balance between the specificity, like being very specific in the charge. I mean, I don't want, I mean, we want it to be flexible for the future, right? We don't want to be coming back here to try to rewrite our charge. But at the same time, I guess if we're very general, then, then some people might say, oh, well, yeah, that doesn't, that shouldn't be involved the tack at all. Right. So I think we need to sort of balance, like, which of the ones do we want to call out as we definitely want that to be like a specific responsibility for the tack. I mean, there are a lot of things here. And, you know, as a committee that meets like three hours a month, you know, if we were really asked to do all these things in any thing in any way comprehensively, like, we wouldn't be able to do that. I mean, I thought that was part of why maybe we weren't doing as much parking as was originally in the charge to just because like, we already had a pretty full plate. Well, also because the charge didn't have a, didn't have the parking kick in until something else got finished, which didn't set. So we've been avoiding parking for those reasons, Tracy. Yes, Hilford. Just a note, you took a two page charge and you've now made it four pages if you actually add those bullet points back in. Yeah. So I mean, the, the, what the, the idea that I'm forming is, I mean, the point is that we don't want to limit ourselves from this. We want to make sure that we don't somehow rather, and whether that takes listing them so that we can, or some other, the opposite way. So is that a hand, Bernie? And that would be, I don't, I'm, I understand what, and again, I'm lacking a lot of history here. So forgive me, but you, you don't necessarily need to call all that out in the charge. That can be a document that accompanies this. In other words, you've got a cover page, you've got a page on the charge here that's really a letter. Right. Then you've got the, we've got what will be a brief mission statement, composition, and the charge. So we're down to, we're down to two pages with lots of white space, which makes it readable. What can go on this as an, as an appendix is when we're talking about the charge, these are examples of what the committee's done in the past and will, will look to do in the future. So that way you can give people a detailed bullet list that if they want to look at it and chew on it, that's fine. But the basic charge itself is, is cleaner, lots of white space and very readable. And then just above, above that appendix, we just have to make sure that we don't somehow rather limit our responsibility for those things. Well, you know, the, To include, I could include or something like that. The dance here is, if you have a more general charge, you've given yourself wider space to work at, but people may not, may miss some things. If you give yourself a very specific charge and a laundry list of specific tasks, people are going to think that that list is exhaustive and won't, won't go beyond it. So, you know, you're sort of dancing this around, you're also dancing this around with elected officials. Yeah, we're still, as I said before, the council's still finding its way. It'll be another year or so before they really sort of coalesce around the governing style. And, you know, you got to be, you got to be conscious of, of that, that you, you don't want to, you don't want to go in with a, a, you don't want to count too strongly, I think, with the council. I mean, I learned that very quickly with them. So, in your judgment, are we, are we getting kind of close to what, where we should be in this dance? Is this, is this working? I'll, I'll, you know, defer to other people. I think people are headed in the right direction. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think we've all, we're all equally as concerned, I think, as any of our town counselors in our town. And I don't think any of us still appreciate the depth of the understanding that one needs to have in order to solve these really complex issues. So, I really don't understand why a council with like, I, you know, I have kids in school. I have kids who go to the library with these issues that are massive to the public right now that are far more complex than even this issue, why they want to do the work that we're doing, because I would want to pass that off to anybody else, you know, because they have so much work to do. You know, I think we should, we should really, you know, just give the honest truth to all the stuff that we've been doing, just say, hey, we can, we can help you out with this. You know, like that's what I see this as, because I wouldn't want to do the work we're doing on top of schools and libraries and budgets and whatever else they have to deal with. I got it. The charge is, we, anything transportation, we can help with it. We can do it. We've been thinking that. That's the charge. I think, I think, I think I like that. One sentence. Yeah, no, yeah. Yeah. No, I think you're, I think you're right. And that's, and somehow to get the cross that that is the value of, and that's why I think, that's also why I think, like, you know, all of these other thoughtful documents that we've actually worked on in the beginning of this, of this statement, you know, and to say that we had a significant, whatever, you know, the transportation plan, which was, you know, from us, all of these things that we've obviously thought we are predecessors have thought loads about, you know, which is what our concern is. I think, I think putting those documents at the beginning are, is important because it shows the work that we've done, the thought that's gone into the work that we, we're doing, you know. So the cover letter is getting longer, but the charge is still one page. So okay. Yeah, that's right. And that's fine. Yeah. All right. No, that's, that's, the vision statement is going into that, that collection. Yeah, which is also something we've worked on ourselves, right? So. No, absolutely. And on good work on. And there are three minutes left. Yes. All right. So, so, so does anybody else with anybody want to take on a couple of these pieces to do the, the smithing? I was going to offer, since I didn't see it in the last round, I don't know if you guys feel comfortable with having me sense and suggested that it's, but I could. Well, I'm a, I'm a little, little, you know, so accepting volunteers, I mean, I guess we, we have a mechanism. So we don't have to incorporate Eve's suggestions. I volunteered. I would, I would, I would accept that Eve sort of, this feels like old times. And yeah, so if you want to, you know, communicate them with me just so we can avoid the open meeting, blah, blah, blah stuff. Then I would like to spend another minute and a half to consider our next meeting, which is the 19th. May I just ask a question? Yes, Bruce, of course. After you and Eve worked on the draft, would you send it to all of us so we can? Absolutely. When I met and, and, in fact, let me, let me put it out there that you have this, I know some of you didn't get a chance to get into writing what we talked about and send it along, you know, take the chance in the next couple, in the next week. Let's, let's try to wrap this up so that I can get it out now Thursday or Friday. So we have some time before our next meeting. So you can get those to me individually, specifically. And then Eve and I will be doing something on the side. And we will do this all again in two weeks and maybe we'll get to some other things on the agenda too, but they're not nearly as important as getting this done. And also, I want to think a rainstorm a little bit on how we present, how we bring this forward to the TSO and to the town council, whether we should have a plane with a banner pulling it over the meeting or just, or just invite ourselves to particular meetings or, you know, get our feet underneath the town manager's desk. I just want to sort of get a, get a consensus on what we think might be the best way to know that you're very busy and distracted. Otherwise, counselors to be nice of Darcy to say, go ahead, do your work. And then we'll get back to the beginning eventually. So Bruce and then Tracy. I was going to recommend once we have a draft we're comfortable with to show it to the town manager first. Okay. I've been keeping the town manager sort of up to date with the drafts. You don't see that because I don't, I only put the CC on one of them. Yours in fact, Bruce. But yes, that's an excellent idea. And I'll try to do that because he's been actually, he's been very helpful in, in, to me in framing questions and understanding things. So Tracy. I mean, just for our next meeting or maybe I know we're out of time now and Amber is going to want to leave and we all have things to do. But I mean, one thing is, I think as we go forward and we talk about going back to the TSO, like we do have the tasks that we had been working on, you know, just to show the value of the tack in addition to working on our charge. I mean, so one of the things with the whole prioritization plan is that actually came, I mean, my understanding and looking into it is that that came, that was one of the recommendations of the complete streets policy plan that was adopted by the town and submitted to mass dot and approved at mass dot. And what it said is that for the next phase, I think it's like phase two, if you develop a prioritization plan and you're eligible for complete straight funding. And so, I mean, it directly ties into, you know, there was a question about the grants and so on. But just to show, I mean, I've, I mean, I've heard some just kind of general rumblings and things just about whatever happens, you know, what do you actually accomplish or what do you get done? And, you know, the value added that we have in addition to having these very nice discussions as we think about things. But I would like to have like some more product to show that we are done with that. Yeah, this is exactly the brainstorming that I'd like to go through. So that would be that's an excellent idea for something being bring forward to, I don't know, the first meeting with the TSO and say, here's our charge. And oh, by the way, there's some more background. I mean, I talked to them for almost a half an hour at that time. And you heard me Tracy, we talked about a lot of those things, but yes, so that's good. I think so. I mean, like, so even I at the last meeting, we had talked about having a meeting of the subcommittee, right? The subcommittee that was working on prioritization and, I mean, restarting that process. Yes, please, that'd be good. So, I mean, I guess the other part of your point that I would want to articulate is that, yes, we need to begin to do our regular work besides making a pretty charge and trying to suss out the political process. So this has given Bernie plenty of time to read all of those documents so we can know where we're going to be picking up. And along those lines, so the order of things that I imagined we would want to get started is sort of moving the uptake. I thought it was intake, but uptake form and processes at least to identify the various tracks that things might go in to revisit our and then review our project's priority list. And then to finish our bicycle plan, I mean, and then it's beginning to roll on. There's a lot of stuff that we have been in abeyance and are still in abeyance until I think it's important that we get this charge in front of the TSO. So, I mean, I appreciate Darcy saying go ahead do your work, but I'm a little afraid that if we get too far ahead of the cart that, you know, it's going to cross somebody's threads and already, well, you heard it, Tracy, it was some pushback of the TSO on not doing things out of order. But anyway, okay. Tracy. Well, I mean, I guess that I mean, just because, you know, because even though we meet twice a month and so we do, you know, we meet more frequently like when I was way back when when I was on the public transportation committee, like we only met once a month, but but also just as we think about our charge, I mean, it is very broad, like we are trying to be comprehensive, you know, if we look at our vision and everything, but to provide some sense of like our priorities or something, if there's some way to kind of prioritize our functioning is like we're doing it in this bigger framework. But in terms of just like day to day, like what we're actually capable of doing, given the constraints of being on a citizen. That might be communicated most effectively by, you know, our agenda and moving through agenda items, you know, we can see what we're doing. But yes, and again, that's that is something that would be good for our next meeting with TSO. And it might be good to just to start to have minutes again, right? Yeah, like so the public can see like what we've been up to. And so I think the last posted minute is from February. Yeah, whenever, right? Kim? No, I don't know. You're waving your hand. So mercy. So 530, 32 weeks hence. Bruce, I'm looking for motion. I will move to end the meeting to adjourn. I second. Thank you all. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, ma'am. Is Amber still on? Thank you, Amber. You went in a long time again. You go first. Good night. Bye.