 everybody. Welcome to Think Tech-O-I's Law Across the Sea program. And today we have an interesting show. It's about east and west. And the title of the show is Neither East Nor West. And I got the title from a poem. And I'd like to just read the first few lines of the poem by Richard Kipling. And then I'll introduce my guest, Richard Turbin, in a minute. Oh, east is east, and west is west, and never the twain shall meet, till earth and sky stand presently at God's great judgment seat. Then the next two lines are the very important lines. But there is neither east nor west, border nor breed nor birth, when two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth. And a strong man is in front of me right now, Richard Turbin. Rich, welcome. Good to see you. Thank you, Mark. Thank you. Good to be here. You know, when I read that poem and we were talking about doing a program, I didn't think how much it meant, and it really connects with you, I think. Do you have any thoughts about the poem, especially the last two lines of the poem? What are your thoughts? Well, you know, I certainly do. And like everything else, you know, was very personal with me. You know, I grew up in New York City, Tendon School. In the east? In the east, you know, totally in the east, you know, in New York and then Massachusetts. But I was always, you know, fascinated, you know, with the rest of the world, and I wanted to travel so much. And so I'll just kind of tell you a little story. And when I was in law school, I had heard about the initiation of the East West Center in Hawaii. One of my, the first law professor at Harvard Law School had just, very prominent law professor, had just returned from Hawaii. He had just received a degree at the East West Center. It was, this was big. I mean, it was really big at the time. Way back east, you know, talking, this is 1966. And I said, I want to, you know, I want to, I want to move to Hawaii after I graduate law school and even attend the East West Center or join the Peace Score and go out to that South Pacific, which I did. When I finished law school in 1969, I was a Peace Score lawyer and at that time, the country of Western Samoa. And now it's the independent country of Samoa. But I still remember taking a trip to Fiji during that year, sitting around a bar in Fiji with about 10 or 15 students, you know, from all over Asia and the Pacific Islands. And they were all talking about Hawaii. They wanted to attend the University of Hawaii or go to the East West Center in Hawaii. I mean, at that point in time, I felt like Honolulu is the center of the Pacific. That's where all of the young people, the ambitious, smart young people, they want to come to Honolulu. And then after I finished a Peace Score, I went to Hawaii. As you know, I became a lawyer in Hawaii. And it struck me over the years. Now we're, now we're what, 40 years later, 35 years later, 40, my friend, to a 2005. I'm not talking about. All right, 2005. Now I moved to 2005. You moved up from becoming, you were, you became a lawyer what year? Oh, in 1971. I moved to Hawaii. And after I finished up for the Peace Score in 1970, I moved to Hawaii. I started working at the Public Defender's Office, doing criminal law, passed a bar exam in 1971, sworn into practice. But, oh, and then I was, you know, doing my law practice, but I was still extremely, you know, fascinated and enthralled with Asia and the Pacific and legal matters. With the, with the West, with the East has come West. Yeah, the East has come West. East has come West. But still not the judgment date. Yeah, but still not the judgment date, you know, but. Okay, so in 2005, what happened? 2005, I was elected, actually it was really 2004, I was elected to be the president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. And I should say, before those years in 2000, I was elected chair of the TORC and Insurance Practice Section of the American Bar Association. And there, I was trying to thrust the American Bar Association. That's the major law association for American lawyers. I was trying to get them interested and involved in Asia. And I actually, it was the year, it was 1999, I initiated a joint program with the American Bar Association and the Hawaii State Bar Association to have a mission to China, to Guangzhou, Guangzhou and Beijing, China. It was very exciting. And your practice was what? What type of a practice? You know, personal injury. I mean, I'm doing personal injury, which. Not international. Not international, you know. But you still have this interest. Yeah, so this is a hobby. This is really my major hobby. And then in 2004, I was elected president of the Hawaii State Bar Association. And here's where our host, Mark Shklav, becomes involved, heavily involved in this idea I have, which is to push, shove, nudge the Hawaii legal community to start getting involved in other bar associations and legal affairs in the Pacific and in Asia. Well, what was your perception at that time of the bar's interest or involvement? Let me put it like that. Very insular. I mean, very parochial because I would, I was talking, you know, one, when I was campaigning for bar president and got elected, I was talking to, you know, the people, lawyers and leaders in the bar association and the staff. And, you know, I might be exaggerating, but the basic message I got was we're not interested. I mean, you don't make money, you know, lawyers are just interested in making money. That's the main consideration. And there's no money over there. So, just focus on Hawaii law, you know, focus on our small island state in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, not over, not China, Japan or the Pacific or Australia, New Zealand. And then we had a lunch, Mark, Mark Shklav, our host and myself. And we talked about this and how in our belief, so we're partners in crime, Mark, our belief that Hawaii was ready to kind of open itself up, you know, to the to the east. We didn't need an Admiral Perry, you know, sailing in with guns, you know, gunships like he did in Japan in 1856 or whenever, opening up Japan. We needed to open up to Asia and the Pacific. And you, sir, agreed, encouraged me to do this. So we concocted a plan to have an international bar convention every year. The White Bar Association has a bar convention, an annual meeting. And we decided that in 2005, the year that I was serving as president, we were going to have an international convention, an international meeting. And so we did. In October of 2005, very successful. We had as 70 lawyers from throughout the Pacific and Asia attend the meeting. And the hallmark of the meeting, the major event was signing Hawaii Bar Association's first friendship agreement with the Daiichi Tokyo Bar Association. Okay, now, what is a friendship agreement? And what, I mean, what was the idea behind that? I mean, why do we need a friendship agreement with other lawyers in another country? Well, it's a way to have a continued relationship. A friendship agreement means that we're having a bond, that we are really bonding, forming a, hopefully, a permanent relationship, an ongoing relationship with another major bar association from a major city. Daiichi Tokyo means first Tokyo Bar Association. And it was the first bar association that was established in Japan. And with respect to that, what did we have to do? I mean, what did, and what was the reaction from the Daiichi Tokyo Bar when we talked to them? Very good. Well, we sent an ambassador from the Hawaii State Bar Association, namely yourself, the eminent lawyer, March Glav. He was our ambassador, and he went to Tokyo, and he met with the leaders of the Daiichi Tokyo Bar Association and proposed a friendship agreement. And maybe you should tell us about the reaction. I brought a letter from you to them saying, we would like to establish a relationship with you. Are you interested? And they, of course, they, well, let's think about this. And but they got back to us very quickly, said, yes, we're interested. Let's do it. And from that, what happened? What happened next? I mean, we've, we had a friendship agreement where we agree to get together and we agree to share things. We agree to be friends, which sounds in a way, well, what does that mean? Well, that could mean a lot of business, too. I mean, we know each other. But then what happened? What happened? We had a ceremony. That was a centerpiece of that bar convention in October of 2005. And we had a ceremony. I hope it doesn't sound too shishy, but it was at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel, the Pink Palace. And I remember it quite well in one of their indoor outdoor rooms. And we had Chief Justice Ronald Moon present, the leader of the Daiichi Tokyo International Committee, a man named Kenji Hashidate, and other prominent lawyers and leaders in the community were present. And it was a memorable affair. And I have the letter right here where Kenji Hashidate agreed to the friendship agreement, agreed to attend our signing ceremony, bringing other people abroad. And we also, Mark, brought the renewal of the friendship agreement, which was signed in 2010. And the friendship agreement establishes the fact that every two years, we're going to have a get-together. We're going to either here or in Tokyo. Alternating, yeah. Alternating and alternating two years here and then in Tokyo. And I think we've been out to Tokyo at least three times. Right. And just fabulous events. We have seminars and programs where we educate our Sister Bar Association on the latest developments in Hawaii law and Japanese law. And then we've followed up, I mean, success of Bar presidents. Should we talk about that? And I want to, after the break, I want to talk about where that went. Where the first, what happened after the first friendship agreement and what happened in your life because of it. All right. But let's take a break. Okay. I'm going to go back and talk about that. Okay. Okay. That's been good. A little tailgate. I usually drink but won't be drinking today because I'm the designated driver and that's okay. It's nice to be the guy that keeps his friends in line, keeps them from drinking too much so we can have a great time. A little responsibility can go a long way because it's all about having fun on game day. We all play a role in keeping our community safe. Every day we move in and out of each other's busy lives. It's easy to take for granted all the little moments that make up our every day. Some are good, others not so much. But that's life. It's when something doesn't seem quite right that it's time to pay attention. Because only you know what's not supposed to be in your every day. So protect your every day. If you see something suspicious, say something to local authorities. We got another minute. We are back with Richard Turbin and we're talking about east and west and never the twain shall meet but it looks like they have met. It looks like somehow the east and the west have come together and met and developed a friendship and we did that through the Bar Association, lawyers making friends with each other in other countries. Now Richard, we've talked about the Daichi Tokyo Bar Association. That was our first Hawaii state bar friendship agreement with a foreign bar and that's actually a big thing for Hawaii but it's a big thing for the United States really. Lots of other states would love to have these type of friendships with other bars. It's a good economic reason but also friendship, making people. So what happened after that first friendship agreement? You were the president for that year, 2005 of the Hawaii state bar. You moved on, that's a year job. You moved on from there. What happened with respect to friendship agreements and then I want you to talk at some point about how the friendship agreement that we started talking about in 2005 came right around to you and your family. Right, right. Well of course my concern after leaving as bar president after a very active year was that the legacy should continue and I want to say just to start off I was very happy because when my year started the Hawaii state bar association had an international bar section which was totally moribund maybe four or five members. Well after this friendship agreement it exploded and now we have a tremendously active international bar section with 30, 50 members standing room only at meetings, lots being done. That was terrific but then over and beyond that my successor bar presidents started initiating other friendship agreements or other members of the bar started initiating others and we formulated friendship agreement with the Shanghai bar association and then after that we had the Seoul bar, the Seoul bar, Suzhou and it goes on and on and we can have more if we want but we have to digest what we have because we need to get together regularly for these you know to continue to foster the friendship agreements. We have to have meetings and we have to have programs and that takes a lot of time. So generally speaking friendship agreements why are they important to Hawaii and and then why are they important to you? Well okay first of all as far as lawyers are concerned I mean I think now there's a general recognition that an international law practice I mean such as you have marked is a real possibility in you know practicing law in Hawaii you can make a living as a lawyer doing international law and these and business springs out of that. I mean no doubt there's quite a few Hawaii lawyers who have started practicing in Japan or doing Hawaii cases with Japanese connections likewise with China with Shanghai likewise with Seoul Korea likewise with Suzhou China so there are many more lawyers who have actually secured business and income from these friendship agreements plus the friendship I mean the personal friendship is wonderful it's dynamite you visit these nations and you instantly have have friends who you visit with tour with have dinner with I mean it just creates a a much more meaningful life and likewise they come here and we're happy to see them. Exactly we have regular dinners I don't mark you sponsor them but we've hosted dinners at our home you know with lots of fun lots of fun I mean great evenings you know meaningful meaningful events in our life and talking about a meaningful event in our life we had a we had a tremendous event my wife Ray Sainte Chu who was a successor bar president and helped foster the Shanghai friendship agreement she is from she was born in Nanjing and I left it has a lot of Shanghai connections and oh my god about 20 years ago we received a letter from Ray's cousins in Shanghai who are lawyers in Shanghai and wanted to create a letter relationship with us but then with all of the political unrest in China we wrote back and our letters were apparently lost in the cosmos they never received them lost track of them and it was always you know a burning desire we really would like to make contact with our Shanghai family and then lo and behold it was almost a miracle the Hawaii Bar Association had a program intern program for Chinese lawyers yeah so I just let me interrupt a little bit because I don't know how this all happens okay but you know you you started this program in 2005 to make friendships I you weren't thinking about making personal connections with family members but we started developing the friendship agreements and Shanghai was a natural one that came up and we started developing that and as part of the Shanghai program we started an intern program where we would accept a lawyer from Shanghai for a few months in Hawaii and they'd work with us and we'd get to know them and then we would maybe at some point exchange a Hawaii lawyer to Shanghai okay so that was the program that was a direct result of something that happened in 2005 and then what happened so then I guess round about 2010 or so all of a sudden I get an email I get an email from my wife's cousin in Shanghai who she remembered my name and googled me and and and got my email and and an email address and sent me an email oh you know dear dear Richard you know I am your wife's cousin you know hi Quinn hi Quinn show and my my husband is coming to Honolulu for this you know friendship agreement intern program can we can we visit you I'm going I'm coming to with our daughter and so lo and behold we had house guests and we made the connection and we made the you know we made the bond with my wife's cousins from Shanghai and it has continued we visited that we visited Shanghai the year later and stayed with them and they came back and visited with us and their daughter is going to school in in the United States and you know we take care of her to some extent so it's it's beautiful it's really been a wonderful wonderful byproduct the gift from the Hawaii State Bar Association international programs does it ever do you ever wonder how the coincidence all lined up and how it all connected then how when we started this ball rolling for east and west to meet and get together uh that ultimately it would lead to your wife's family and that type of connection in this thing how is it all connected my friend how how did it all I mean is it is it just raw coincidence is that is I guess I guess it was a it was a totally unpredictable miracle you know it was the best way to put it but you know that's how these miracles happen like somewhat you know karmic you know we send the karma out and it comes back well it seems to be coming back in a good way yeah yeah absolutely okay well I don't want to get too off the deep end I guess but I found it it was quite quite remarkable that that's something that you'd started several years before then came back and boom really connected with you personally I know you're also on the board of the east west center yeah I'm chair of the board of governors now and that was a wonderful thing that was kind of a miracle for me because when I returned from the peace court I moved to Hawaii and I got a job as a public defender I did apply for an east west center grant I was a recipient of it but almost the same day I received the grant offer I also received notice that I passed the Hawaii state bar exam so very reluctantly I gave that up to start my law practice or you know start practicing law but I maintained the relationship with the east west center and had them join in and our you know international bar programs both with the American Bar Association the Hawaii Bar Association and then I was appointed to the board in 2011 so I thoroughly enjoyed that it's a wonderful institution I just say about the east west center it's more appreciated far more appreciated in Asia than in Hawaii and certainly in the United States we have our meetings so for example in Beijing two days in a row we were the cover story on the China Daily Times we had a meeting in Manila two days in a row where the cover story and the Manila Times and they've been at least six major presidents and prime ministers of major Asian nations who are east west center alumni uh and and countless of you know vice ministers and deputy ministers and leaders in business and education so you're you're invested in east and west meeting each other face to face strong people talking with one another to make better relations it's my passion what can we do in Hawaii how can we I mean are we doing enough if not what can we do well we gotta do whatever we can certainly to support the east west center I mean that's an extremely important institution as you know it's always under attack by certain elements in our in our politics we receive half our money from the federal government from congressional appropriations but another you know 16 17 million from you know private donations so we need to do what we can to help the lawyers Hawaii lawyers need to support the international programs of the of the Hawaii State Bar Association very grateful that Think Tank has has retained you to be a host for international for our international programs I think we constantly need to be aware and and I would urge our local residents to attend these international events just for example I just throw it out east west center has a wonderful art gallery and they just started a new program which is called the tree of life and there's all kinds of wonderful free programs that the east west center puts on for local residents and you can just check the the website for that and and be welcome of course to our tourists the all the tourists from Asia that come to the come to Hawaii and of course we are I mean where do we have so much rich aloha in our state and and so east can meet west and we can do it here in Hawaii and some good can come from that good that enriches your life in many ways absolutely and just let's just bear in mind that thankfully there has not been a major war in Asia and think about it since the resolution of the v of the vietnamese war and you know night that's a long time I mean that we're talking about 40 over 40 years of of Asia being conflict free no major conflicts and I think all the work we have done east west center the Hawaii state fire association has something to do with that you know we never know how many wars we prevent you know and and and peace and and of course Asia has become the greatest center of prosperity in the world today it's been a success story and Hawaii has been part of that success story we need to continue being part of that success story Richard let's hopefully continue and I want to thank you for being my guest today thank you Mark and thanks for everything you do and for all the help you gave me aloha