 But we can go ahead and start on this pre-session So let's do a little pump. That's all we really need and we use first names and it's very Informal so she can use one start in your garden She can't enough, right? Erin Rodriguez, Marsha Martin, Susie Valgo-Farring, Joe Peck, Sean Boyd, Diane Chris And we do that because people can listen in So, let's do a fast update on our Board's Commissions Whatever, whoever wants to go first Can go I got something to speak Okay, good job Golf, they just elected new officers and they have a bond, they talked about their bond project Updates, so some of the things that they're doing are like they're having this really great sprinkler system put in at sunset Where they can really see where the dry spots are and where it's over Consortium cities and a mental health ground table discussion and then Have the behavior health roadmap presented to us in the county and then Parks and Rec had a yearly accomplishment PowerPoint where every aspect of the department went through everything and they are having you'll see in the new Rec program for the spring some new fee increases Everything and they're just We'd like to talk a little bit about They're not able to meet their mark in regards to Sometimes an 80% coverage of their very cost and Maybe at some point talk about what that looks like Is there a sweet spot where that Yeah Great Existing pump station Have an email notes Did you get one from him? No It's too soon to have a firm estimate in a way, but it's something that somehow Got No, yeah, it's I mean it's 40 years old so this the sad thing is Everybody knows that's how long old-fashioned electric power equipment Works and it should have been in somebody's budget for 70 years or so, you know, so that we could be building up the fund But so that's an ugly surprise other board stuff that not much because The senior advisory board who is the most active work that I have has decided to educate themselves and do their own Research for their segment of the population on affordable housing and Housing and security So they are probably gonna be they have they have set the goal of Producing some budget recommendations in the this monthly next month, but they aren't there yet They've done a lot of work Replacing the No, it's like they put the transformer so close together that you can't Okay Yeah, I can go um Well transportation We talked about the new the coordinator coordinator for the task force Visions you were always there We pretty much Just went over our the plan put together of what we'll be doing the plan the mobility plan and everything Also, there was a lot of discussion about From board board members about the streets not being plowed and there's a misunderstanding Some of the the board members that want the bike lanes plowed during the snow and so we had that discussion So it was kind of hard and I was quiet for a long Huge part of it until I just couldn't take it anymore and then I had to say that you know we have a shortage of staff and It's important for our streets to be plowed and And then what the complaint was that was that the the area what cars park You know They said well, why don't you some people were asking? Well, why don't you make the cars move and things like that? So one of the things we did talk about you know Like in major cities that get a lot of snow like Chicago and New York and things like that They were talking about they have signs up They said during this period of time for them to plow that you a car can be there kind of like when sweepers come to sweep this City, you know the streets. So we did discuss that. I don't know how feasible that is but that may Come back and I have no clue Longmont sister cities we We still don't know when Japan is But there was a parent meeting with some of the other cities of Mexico and those who have gone to Mexico northern What else I Go to nata on Thursday morning. So I haven't gone to that What else am I missing oh LDDA we have our retreat on the 28 Oh Anyone else The North I-25 coalition the bus staying and the transpiration up there Can Pratt or 119 and I-25 they think it'd be done in four to seven months It would be nice to have micro transit connect with that But it seems like micro transit is going to go to about sandstone ranch where they city Limit is so we've got about three miles between there and the hub An industrious person needs to start a business to Pick up the drama or we need to find a way to have micro transit go out that far So there's some enthusiasm for it because Right down to Denver or up to four columns and that's South going platform on the west side of the highway East side of the highway and they've expanded that Leave the tunnel it goes underneath So there's access for bicycles and Pedestrians to get across the highway safely underneath See We try to get to the last mile now we have three more miles So then there's a long-long economic development Retreat at the end of January There's a lot of discussion I don't even know how to discuss everything we talked about So we'll just leave it at that To be continued. There's a lot of conversation about Five different areas we've heard a lot of that in our retreat. So how that develops Just did the The group today in terms of the retirement pension Negotiate in the mix a little bit Retire And then there's a ribbon cutting over here And we're going to see the dickens opera house up there, too, which they're going to have opera here in large Isn't that nice? Second and third right over here on That's pretty exciting I feel like I'm missing one Visit long month and that'll be Monday, so I'm always just So I have museum advisor the next one right Wednesday Well the last one the last one Wednesday So, you know, I guess I want to shout out to Don I think she was the one who coordinated all this the training for the members the four members Board orientation. Yes. Yes. Yes. So I heard a lot of Outstanding feedback from the members of the museum and library advisors So they they just had nothing but great review so Yeah, so that was good at the museum advisory board one of the The things that we discussed was, you know, we're kind of keeping track of how much money they've acquired for their $8.1 million goal for the expansion and we're at 85 percent of the way Yes So I absolutely I know something bigger than that or you yeah, like when we donated to We were lived in San Diego Petco Park. Oh, yeah, we built them when they built the stadium We should go out of we're able to put it get a placard So so things like that there's there's opportunities to have recognition for that so that that was great news in Our and you know, they're they're doing what they do and just getting those programs out and and reaching out Especially with youth engagement. So it's not like they're their mission. They were updating their vision statement so really putting a focus on youth engagement and getting more Active participants in that role and then for the library You know, we were looking at it seems like for this group, they really just want to know more how they can be an active group and so really working with the friends of the library finding ways to Gain funds to support. They again, they were asking me, you know, what's our commitment to the library as far as sustainable programs and Staffing because that's that's been an area of concern, especially since the Ballot measures didn't pass one of the I was looking at the Organizational chart. So one of the things we were looking at was just the staffing overall So all of the library staff can fit nicely into one page So even down to the temp staff, so it's not really when we think about the large-scale things of what they do as In the community, it's not a lot of people doing a lot of work and so how You know, and I think this is where they're kind of pondering how they're going to read Rethink some things as far as around adult programming. I'd seem like the emphasis was really keeping those Children programming, you know another option would be to charge for adult classes Whereas before they didn't a lot of members on the board did not like that because they felt like We're a public Entity we should be providing these services for free. So there's still ongoing debate on how They can cut corners, but still provide quality Programming and as well as things that we can't necessarily see like those digital, you know, all those people are accessing Books and online materials Through the digital format, but that also costs money. So while we might not be able to see it like a brick-and-mortar building or the books These are things that are costing that aren't you know waiting on the on the library budget And so what we as a council Prioritized and you know, are we gonna put our money where our mouth is kind of I heard little things So let them know that I was going to convey That you know, it's they're they're working to try to find ways to to cut things but And be more concise, but there are things that are non-negotiable and that would be truly the children's This stuff that Lillian does out in the community She does do a lot of support with the schools and you know, she's a one-man one-woman operation and She's just great work. So, you know, we really hate you burnout I think was another top area of concern that we were having that people are Getting expanded too much as well as our people at the desk circulation. So they're dealing with a lot of angry people coming to the you know demanding things or being upset because for whatever reason They've received some things about wanting books removed for being inappropriate So essentially the banding of the book So we had that kind of conversation and so really the ones that are having to deal with it are You know, the people at the information desk the circulation desk temp temp workers, you know, our lower-paid Way journeyers are having to do you volunteer for that job for to what to Oh, yeah, exactly and no, but John has been really good about it's like, okay, well, thank you for your concern I'm not going to pull that book and That's it. And so he's been really good later. See you later Don't check it out Um, and then our cap was the other one I was trying to remember because we have an upcoming our cap One of the big so we separate out into subcommittees So the subcommittee I am working on is soil so In that discussion The people that I was with had been talking about and then we came back as a bigger group This also became a topic what big Concern or talk is that we don't have a local or regional composting facility So really wanting to find work with Boulder County Finding a way to make you know, I was very quiet. I have my own ideas and things But I just was listening at that point. So I didn't really You know, I agree But Yeah, so yeah, I think it's yeah, exactly So So housing human services board Early years just normal stuff electing officers approving by laws for the meaning Post posting where the meetings As well as As they've done over the past few years, you know improved their grant application process So they're still continuing to explore more ways to improve that process Before they really get into the needed season All the same thing with planning zoning all they went through was election check all that And then they were informed that because Master board of appeals cannot make quorum that they'll be taking on some of that workload and so they'll be hearing their first variance has Sort of the master board of appeals on the 28th Tomorrow night they their meeting will just be a couple of presentations what I believe on vision zero I think the other one might be the housing assessment that we are here for And you know, they just had Harold in for the state of the city So I'm pretty excited that we just got news release something that have been working on for basically 10 years and So see that see that front-line fashion rail and RTD of per the group that Governor polls put together are have been told basically that they're going to form a JPA a joint partnership Authority just like every other authority in other states like the Port Authority in New York the Transit Authority in Chicago, etc. And with that Part of the FISA money the fast trucks internal savings account for the Northwest Corridor is going to go to putting In whatever we need to get that corridor started and then it's going to transfer to front-range passenger rail so it'll no longer be RTD and the reason for that is A front-line passenger rail is what is passenger rail RTD is commuter rail. There is no dollars commuter rail would be in in FTA and Passenger rail is FRA so that way they get Federal funding through the same funding that the FR that the front-range passenger rail district is getting To finish that it'll be the first length from Denver to Longmont to Fort Collins will be the first leg in front-range passenger rail So with any luck We would get out of the tax for Fort Passing I'm so excited about this So the tax for RTD Northwest Corridor would go away and we would get the train So for us it's a win-win However, there will be and Governor Poles is pushing for a tax on front-range passenger rail on the November ballot And I really am in favor of this because instead of putting another 20 years on for the Northwest Corridor I think they can finish that very first segment from Union Station to Fort Collins within a seven-year time period So that would be the first that's the first leg and there's I just sent all of you the news release so you can read and So without reading the news release Is there any chance that what you said about getting out from under the RTD? Tax that that would be in balance Of course because that's what I've been saying that all of the meetings is that We are not I said I'm not going to have the residents of Boulder County paying to rail taxes When one of them is never going to happen and the other one is a real rail Authority It's really rail. Whereas RTD is not it's not really a done deal What I'm hearing on the FRPR board just had an executive session on this morning is that It's just flipped the north with RTD has been yelling that we're paying a lot of money and we haven't gotten anything and now the south FRPR board is saying oh, yeah, all this is going into the north. What about the south? So it kind of made me smile at the meeting But the difference is that both RTD and FRPR are statutory Created by the legislature. So the governor and the legislature can mandate So I'm excited that we're going to make some headway and I think it's good. It's a good plan So the other thing is that al-Mak Chinese New Year is Monday So Tim Waters is going to be the emcee I'm going to give the opening remark and then read the proclamation so The Historic Preservation Commission by the way, they're very happy about our vote They are going to have their retreat next week. So look right at that Things in that plan Yeah, and this isn't a done deal this is their concept and Harold and I met with And Basically, they said that long line is pivotal Pivotal in the front-range passenger rail district that we have to do Thank you This happens And a train stop because the trains are much bigger than a bus taller so they probably won't be able to go into the transit station and we We did walk that corridor and there was a lot of really good conversations that little red train station They talked about moving that over and making that the Train stop That's very exciting for me I've got one thing that I think we just completed a video that I have with the kids at Life skills fair March 30th, so be looking out for that video. I haven't seen it yet, but they I think I got the email about it So I clicked on it So yeah, I just wanted to make sure that you know Talk to your symptoms and So I've been letting parents know during parent-teacher. Okay, awesome. Yeah, okay, so I'm super excited Target me coming in and give us some money forward to so The other thing So they're all and I've been talking about and this came up actually because of Will car step who is the mayor of birthing And he wants a rail stop for the French passenger rail, so we met And of course, he's not going to get one right away, but we're doing the microtransit here and Doesn't for calling it But but everybody's looking at it as well as birthing so what Actually, Harold's idea was that we need to talk to firestone Frederick birthing or cons and See if all of the cities couldn't get microtransit and then they could go boarder to boarder to your point That there's that three mile that we could make connections that way so that everybody has Availability to go to the bus terminals to the rail That's an option Because I do feel bad for Frederick and firestone RTD just goes They have the parking right on their side Transportation But bus thing also Is one of the stops there as well Mr. Seed on our TV. So is there any idea how much the No, we haven't decided no and also we're discussing of making Only the section that is being developed to pay the taxes And then we'll add the sections to they don't stop paying the tax once it's built But if you're not going to have it for 15 years, then you don't have to pay the tax Which will do we get credit for our 20 years of paying in there? Well in a sense we do because part of the FISA account is going to go to Doing the I would say I don't know exactly what they need BNSF is Giving their analysis for that route Hopefully in March beginning of April. So whatever it is that BNSF says they need to do on that line I think that's what that dollars of FISA that we have paid just both are telling Because there are three other unfinished corridors that have been paying the FISA to There's about a hundred eighty million dollars in there. We can't take all of it because of those other three corridors and That our money that portion of our money will go to doing the upgrades that BNSF says we need to do We won't get it back, but it will be invested for what it was supposed to be invested in all along so Yeah Yeah, it's pretty involved The best thing is supposed to be ready to go in June or September So let's morph into the ethics didn't everybody or anybody read this Okay, I want to make a correction before we get your input because The last this will be the last discussion on this and then we'll go To counsel for emotion As soon as this if we make corrections then we have to correct it The one thing I want is correct before we go in is that the meaning of what? It's on the last page And and this draft actually this last draft was put together with a conversation with Legal Eugene Bay and Harold and we discussed the former draft and pulled this all together so Under complaints it says upon receipt of the hearing officer's written interpretation and or recommendation Regarding a complaint the city clerk shall be provide written notice to the complaint. That's not really true The city it will go to the city clerk's office But the city clerk's office won't read any of the complaints. It's she's just going to be a pass-through And then the pass-through will go to the hearing officer's mailbox and the reason that I Think it's important that it goes as a pass-through Is that we need somebody to track these complaints? We haven't heard anything back She they can put it on their calendar checking two weeks checking them up See see if there's any traction on it at all so The other thing is that the drop-down box for complaints I had talked to Marike. I think I told you this before she left and Ian and they helped put this together That would be on the new web page The the drop-down box for what complaints can be made Did you read it or shall we put it again? disclosure of confidential information a conflict of interest in proper influence or treatment quasi-judicial proceedings advisory opinion and other violations of state law or the Charter of Code pertaining to an ethical conduct So did anyone want anything different? Do you think that? There Those are adequate should we add more? I Think they're adequate, but I'm looking on your complaints and advisory opinions. Is that where the word changes? I Know then that's the That is the second to the last one Other violation of state law or the Charter of Code. Did you give that? Where we are? It is under I'm on line so it's four It's the second one that one right there On this this would be the drop-down box So The reason that these are here and Tim waters brought this up actually of What kind of complaints What do we call it? I just lost frivolous. Thank you. Oh that it would keep out frivolous. Yes. Yeah that Exactly So that leaves that out and it says who's complaining You're the best Definitions It's a Page three in the viewer C4 under rules of conduct it's an ask one and Planting his own commission in the city council serve as official Decision-makers on certain matters Traditionally land use And this is where you're applying pre-existing criteria to a single property property owners Property rights are in state and so there are due process protections for those quasi-judicial proceedings So which are a fair and impartial hearing? This rule of conduct basically says if say council is the decision-maker and quasi-judicial procedure you will not represent or participate in Proceeding from the other side of the dice because That would be improper for you to be a decision maker and also Be half the applicant or in opposition So how does that work with if you're on the board? For instance the board of planning the zoning or in a liaison for or with the historic preservation For instance So you know about the situation before it becomes before council So there are rules Detective process If you have some other Contact or affiliation with a property My general advice is it needs to be Say for the main Decided a lot of things on the street and in terms of the conflict It's whether there's any special treatment or burden on that property different from all those other businesses Citizen boards and we have citizens elected to see council That's a beauty that you're in the community Beyond reasonable to say the no interest whatsoever. That's why the standard is you know a special burden or special treatment Particularly different Yeah You're not voted members, so you might just be there to hear it so it's not like You might at that hearing start to in your head to formulate an opinion about that But you as long as you're not saying to members of the public or anything what you are we formulate is that You know council members and board members are allowed to educate themselves on the matter for them Certainly have staff reports You know, that's why I generally discourage site visits because then you have information Council members or PZ members don't have You know, there's some sort of remedial Processes, you know, you can refuse you can disclose Whatever contact you've had and make a decision On your own whether you can remain a Fair and impartial decision maker or under the rules of procedure you can ask the body Oh Well, I was thinking that if you you know just because you're on that board and you attend the meeting But you're not a voted member and you just paid attention while he were there doesn't mean that you Even if you start to establish at that point, you know your own opinions on those things as long as you're not talking to members of the public about Your opinion on that before we have a hearing the city council You're you're safe if you start having having conversations After that plan is only commission meeting with safe using that one for example because we're talking often times about property Issues then that would probably Do you miss a meeting to have a conversation? About you know accusing yourself, but otherwise it's not It should be a big deal. I mean everybody's gonna You can have your own opinion if you can't see yourself. There are Ex parte communication rules under the due process protection. So if you attended the hearing You should not be communicating with city council So there is the question that residents or the objection that residents will often make Which is I know that council member does not agree with our position because of their campaign Satan's they make during the campaign That's not an ex parte commission nor is it a reason why they should That's not an ex parte Communication it could be a pre-judgment Which is sort of a different sort of category of the due process protections if you In extreme case already have Express, you know, I'm gonna vote this thing down no matter what happens then maybe You might not be able to That circumstance may have to recuse yourself, but just it's very So that would be though there would be a distinction between Campaigning regarding a specific parcel of land or or case as opposed to the general idea of How the Planting area should be treated. Yes, I'd say so each one is going to be a That specific Going into different between a legislative act and the cross-examination actual act so legislative act land use is annexation the zoning Variance is that's quasi-traditional And they're Okay, so if I can some of the questions you gene a lot of times when we start seeing things that We think are going to be an issue the gene will send emails to you all right and say Highly likely this is going to be quasi-judicial. We recommend that you don't engage in conversations And sometimes we'll do that really early in the process Thanks, thank you So do you want anything changed on how the complaint will go to a website? Planked is made it goes to the city clerk's office. She will route it on to and this is my other question We had discussed in previous pre-sessions about Who is going to pay attention or who is going to be the third party to hear the complaint? should it be a hearing board should it be Task force or a hearing officer there didn't seem to be any discussion. So I put hearing officer in here because of my conversations with Harold and Before we have comments because Harold might have to leave Tell us why you think the hearing officer is a good idea There's a few things one and first and foremost, I think about our involvement in this the biggest issue for us is we did not want staff Anyway, and and so hearing officer they tend to have their own staff They can go in and just manage it So we don't have to touch it if you have a board And that's going to require staff involvement in that process because we're going to need somebody to support it The other thing we talked about is the hearing officer we use them all the time For personnel decisions and things like that. They're always Separated apart from it and there really there's no way to make a political argument that this person is Because it's an appointed board This board was appointed by this group of council And so we really think it keeps us out of the mix and staff and It does really keep it beyond arms There's groups that there are professional hearing officers And then you can contract them to they come in and hear the cases Obviously Under the draft proposal it's envisioned to be special counsel an attorney and a law firm You know a lot of these ideas came from Fort Collins, and I know they do R.P. There's firms and attorneys that specialize in Contending their Seminars and even though it wouldn't be you know, they're focused on attorney regulation, but they understand And that's why I hope So we retain them or would it be case-by-case because I don't expect this would be a lot of Complaints today's special counsel under the charter Council would approve that contract So One I think it stated that Whatever the hearing officer come up with it will be presented during council meeting Um, I Think that they us to make that decision exactly. Yeah, it'll probably be a An email To that and we didn't we can go for that so As opposed to the hearing officer would make a recommendation Interpretation and recommendation For these matters And that would be via email over that be at a city council meeting That's what I was wondering. Okay. That's what I was wondering. Thanks for bringing that up. Yeah, I'm not sure I mean, should it be public like that in the city council meeting I know we Doesn't do its damage already if it's gonna do damage it's gonna do damage there to somebody and then if there's no proof until We've had a hearing officer that I think what you're trying to say is all of a sudden you get You have damage done to your reputation before you even have any chance to prove otherwise I think we get the information in the email and then we go to the council and then we all decide On what should happen and according to the last part of that of the code of ethics, right page But then there won't be I think it was I think we really need to think about this because then there won't be If we're gonna do this in the public then there won't be public hearing either I mean people invited public invited to be heard won't be able to say anything I don't know. It's just kind of tricky for me as I'm thinking it as I was reading it But dude, does the public need to have input if that's what it? No, I don't think they do but we're putting it out there And I can only imagine all the emails we're gonna get about it I don't know. I don't know. I was just thinking about it I just wanted to hear what everybody else thought about that the hearing officer can get as much input as they need They can call witnesses or whatever they need to do So there's no point in having public invited to be heard way in on it because it's not a public process It is a council process. It is a council process and I'm not asking for public invited to be heard to speak on it But what I was asking was If we get all the if I know we have to vote on it Can we not vote on it on in a pre-session or does it have to be public? That's what I'm asking because You know what I'm saying It's gonna be out in the public and I don't I don't know I've never been in a situation like this. I was just thinking about how that will play out with the public Hearing officer does have screening criteria. So You know as proposed if it's frivolous or groundless it doesn't go any further the hearing officer screens it out if it's unlikely proven by the ponderance of the evidence Person who's the subject the plate has it been in wrongdoing and has committed to sufficient redress These are all sort of off ramps to the written recommendation to city council or the matter will Has become a low become food because a person who's subject of the plate is no longer a city official Prior to the conclusion of the investigation. It's only if they advise if if the advisory From the hearing officer the advice from the hearing officer is that they come to the conclusion that yes There was improper behavior here or whatever then city council needs to discuss it at a council meeting And make a motion to either follow the hearing officer's advice or not, but also the The person that has been complained What is that the complaint or subject of the complaint. Thank you Um gets to have a voice then a council Let's make sure I validate all the ethics in november next year. Yeah So does the hearing officer say Yes, this complaint Rises to the level that here is the complaint council A hearing on this or does the hearing officer actually make a recommendation to guilty or not I think it says it rises to the complaint the hearing officer will not tell us we need to hear That's their job. They have the hearing And then they advise the results of that hearing. Yes, we think it rises to the level So I'm sure Hearing officer first then Then the council right With the advice and if I wasn't hearing officer, I would make that recommendation. I would not recommend a penalty No, I don't eat that up We have to and we don't have There are not a lot of penalties at all Which which was in the center is the the most Used one I would say the most viable one Um, but if it is something egregious that is a continuing thing Then you can say things like you may not come to any more executive sessions or you can't be on doors or commissions Um, whatever One question in the Eugene. Were you thinking these fall under normal Cora? rules If we're going to be specific here, it makes me wonder if we should Quantify on the web page form, which literally is a bill yet that may be subject to open record May I mean it under normal Yeah, because it will it'll be an email So it will be a Cora Just in clarity for the council and for the public Didn't the ashes by Thank you, you know So all the all the frivolous complaints can be or it is well or only ones That the hearing officer says rise in the level of there should be examination Everything that goes into this drop-down box on the web the complaint that is made on the web Because it's all email But that is the point of the type of request is that Try to leave out everything that would be frivolous Well No, basically do this left or right you look to be funny Yeah, but that's not it. But that's not on there. It has to be um, you choose one of these that falls under Is harassment like a form of harassment? No No, and that is why I put a link to the Uh, to the ethical behavior Yeah, because that if if we that would go into it was a procedure, I think I don't think there would be an ordinance. It would just be this is what we expect of Elected officials this advisory opinion Advisory opinions are Usually based on hypotheticals You know in this circumstance would this be a Conflict of But I mean that's the drop-down menu. So what would somebody So is that they're requesting their advisory opinion from the From what they want to Complaint about The hearing officers would say this is frivolous. It does not rise to the Okay, but there's also improper improper Influenced by treatment and if somebody said at the point of you know, it would be funny. They might say that the proper treatment No, I think that would be more of uh, I'd like to still be found frivolous Yeah, but but and that would never go to the public But the core right that you have would If you just answered jump the other way But they would also get the uh They would also get the advice from the hearing officer. Do you want me to take out advisory opinion? That's if this sounds like it's going to be Well, no, I Go ahead. No, I just think it's just the thing that it seems like Only things that were founded should be allowed before Because otherwise it looks like you know, if somebody wanted to make it their life's mission And we have sometimes over the years members of the public that have made it their life's mission to Be kind of Out of the suppression of information Well, if they said you know going to social media Um, the advisory opinion is that this is under free speech and does not rise to the level And and and we would keep staff out of that. We wouldn't argue about it on council. Um, and And Once that Once that message went out from a hearing officer for me I don't know So as this might be, you know, Eugene can help clarify this as well. So I'm looking at type of request. So the Is it type of request that we're wanting from the city or is it the type of complaint? Because it's um, you know conflict of entrance. That's a complaint the proper influence or treatment. That's a complaint Could quadra quasi judicial proceedings That's that would be a complaint in relation to that Advisory opinion so that are you requesting what the hearing officer had advice on or what I guess I'm looking at the other items and those kind of all lead to That the that one of a council member had made a violation on that. So did they make a violation on an advisory opinion? Is that it's a request for information But I do see what suzi is saying because all of these are you're listing out all the complaints or the The violations And set for that one. Well, and now that you said it when I look at improper influence or treatment From a resident's point of view if they feel they were treated improper Or if they feel that I could see improper influence needs to be stated differently improper influence on a These drop-down requests were meant to track the rules of conduct within this code And there is Section on improper treatment or anything So I'm not sure what improper treatment is but I do know that I get Accused of having conflicts of interest On a monthly or even sometimes a weekly basis just based on my The intellectual property record in my previous career and so Despite the fact that as you know Eugene, I've made full disclosure and you know, we've explained that multiple times It keeps coming up just because it's a convenient way for people that You know bragg red herrings and cross counts of procedures And and that's what this is is addressing. Can we readdress it if there's a Something that we didn't see that seems to be a kind of Uh, probably an isolated situation of of somebody abusing this form just that to kind of rail against counsel this policy user practices Is it something that we readdress if there if it became No, I think we need to look at this different way The way it is laid out it goes to the hearing officer It doesn't come to us to make a decision about whether this Free speech or it could that decision From the hearing officer is this does not rise to the level Of a complaint. They're the ones that need to address the complaint So not city council not staff and so Will it stop them? No Well, the question the question is The stuff off this form when it reaches the hearing officer Is that part of the public record or does it become a part of the public record only when the hearing officer Delivers a recommendation I think the if If the advisory Comment is that this does not rise to the level Of a complaint Then they're it's dead We don't even discuss it Those are the those are the recommendations that the reservations that we've all been expressed Because you know it's a little point at that point. It's like Yeah, but you still have the expense of the hearing officer We don't know what people are going to put on here and I think that Don't get me wrong. I actually support it. I just am like Trying to think of all the possible abuses of it is but uh, oh, yeah, we could go on forever on that I don't think that Anyone is going to totally constantly constantly complain About something when they are But you know why Shakita because they come to council and our comment is We have a place on our website for you to lodge a complaint We are not going to discuss it up here now period in the center Yeah, as long as we communicate that give enough notice Of that's the new process of complaints. That's very very very important. There it is and um And staff has a way to say Might be valid Go out to the website and lodge a complaint, but I do think we need to be very specific Um and explicit as to what we're what information that we are asking On those drop-down so to make sure who is it addressing and who they're talking about You know what I'm saying be very specific because I think Um People can a lot of times. I know it's it's them people don't read everything They just know this is a place to complain And they're just going to be any many money mo or click, you know what I'm saying So let's be very careful with how we word that so they know Who they're addressing it to why they're addressing it and what's the process Oh, so I think that's very important and we are going over time Over the lh a meeting so Okay, um, so You know what really quick really quick. I just so when people are putting this, you know, they're writing up their complaint Perhaps we can say, you know your complaint won't go Won't go through if you have not tied the complaint to which Rules of procedure or which code of ethics did they violate and that could have to be a violation That is what we have codified in language already In with their complaint and what they experienced so having those two tied together if they're not tied together That complaint is it won't be Processed and that should be on the website above the company Thank you Sometimes those terms yeah, okay, you can build a form or if you don't That Yeah, or where you only have the choice I think that makes that will be better Yeah, and actually thanks. I remember now when we were looking at how to build the website That is what they said they can't really do any more than this until they know if it's going to be a hearing officer Or what? And we have just barely touched the surface. I mean other than saying we're going to hearing officer We don't want staff involved So we haven't been able to engage this until we get counseling direction as a body to say yes or no In terms of time spent okay, so do we want a hearing officer versus a hearing board? Yes Okay Do we are we okay with the drop-down box Way of being able to lodge a complaint with I'm going to call it a preamble above it Explaining and maybe definitions of each complaint. What does this mean? That's so that they okay Yeah Is there anything else about the 10-day the hearing officer gives 10 days to the person that is The complaint is lodged against to respond And the reason when I'm saying 10 days is the person could be on vacation it could be during the christmas holiday it could be Is that reasonable? Is that a reasonable time frame? Can you request an extension if they were like on vacation at a time? It seems like 30 days You know that's between the 10 days is really short. Yeah, that's what I was wondering if it's a reasonable amount of time Okay, that's what I want to know I was thinking 30 days 30 days Yeah, I'm also wondering if there could be some To leave in my term I'm sorry consider frivolous from the hearing officer if it could just be expunged If you could be what expunged, you know, like really I know we're talking about there should be open records, but it could say It could be confidential because confidential Or just You know so many 20 years Because if you catch a drop in menu and you don't have something that relates to your actual complaint Where does that go? Well, is it just disappear? Well, I think they just need us to You all just need us to say yes go ahead. Yeah, the hearing officer isn't that and then we'll come back with other stuff Is that correct? Yes. Yes. We need the ground work. Yeah where I get anxious is What we may want to go this this and this State law regulates What is an open record and what is not an open record and so We can't deviate from that. That's the circle and everything we have to do has to be within that circle of state law and open records and That can be on the website challenge. It's going to be open records These are what these def the definitions of these This what this means and all of that will be communicated prior to before we even implement all of this It's Does council want staff to spend time now digging under this a little bit more? I say yes You're 10 percent that you have to give us how much how much of that 10 percent of this take? It's just a few Um, when I work with the team Yeah And in the forms once you gene figure she's out the form study for us to work with That doesn't take a long time Okay, I know we gotta move All right