 Good morning, everyone. Can you hear me in the back? Good, good. My name is Peter LaFond. I am the president of a small agency out of Wilmington, North Carolina. My company is called My Internet Scout. And I'm also the co-organizer, or lead organizer this year, of the Wilmington WordCamp 2018. And so today I'm going to talk about backups and how there's various strategies out there and you want the strategy or it will save your livelihood and your sanity. So how many of you are website admins? More than one website. How many of you are designers? Okay, great. How many of you back up your website? Great. How large is your website? How many pages? A couple hundred? Okay. How long have you had your website? Five years and you put a lot of resources into it. It probably takes you some time to publish each page, right? All right. So it would probably be devastating if you lost your website, obviously. Okay. So I'm going to talk about backups in a manner... Number one, backups should be your last resort when you try to reference it to bring your website back. There's many different methods. You have to figure out what's going on with your website when there's something wrong with it, such as the white screen of death. But an usual day for me, this is me when I'm having a good day as admin, right? You're just kind of kicking back. Operations are going great. Now, this is me when I face something for the very first time that what is going on here, right? And I got phone calls from my clients. So this is me on a bad day. And this is when I first start out. This is what my month looks like, right? So this talk is about moving from this month to this month, right? Looks a lot better. But you've got a couple of bad days you've got to work on. I always say you really need those bad days to keep your spouse and your clients on their toes anyway. So hazards, websites face where backups are necessary. All of these are things I faced where a backup was necessary. Mail-interfections, server crash, data center, network outages. I actually had a terrorist-related incident. Some sort of, I don't know if it was organization or individual, took over my client's website. And it was a website I wasn't managing, but they took over the entire server and transformed it in something horrible. And then the most popular one is the very last one, human error. Oops, I deleted my file directory. That usually happens in FileZilla. So what is a backup? So what's a website backup? Again, first the backup should be your last line of defense. It's not your first go-to. Again, there's a process you should have in place. You determine what's wrong with the website. And the reason why you don't want to go to your backup, the very first thing, because when you reinstall from a backup, there's a very good chance you'll have things that are lost. The most recent material, chances are it won't be there. So if you're, I always tell my clients, if you're like writing original copy for a post or a page, make sure you do it in Word and have a copy in Word before you publish, or some other application, Evernote, Google Doc, that sort of thing. Second, I always tell my clients when I talk to them about backups, I ask them to reevaluate their mindset when it comes to backing up. It's not a copy, a backup's not a copy or a single file you copy and hold some place. Backup is a system and it's a process you have to be aware of or do every month and make sure it's working. And you also have to be able to, when stuff hits the fan, you have to be able to take that backup and install it and know how to do that as part of the system as operating procedure. And again, think of it as not as a disaster recovery or catastrophic recovery plan, think of it as more like an emergency operating procedure. Because if you think of it as a disaster recovery, chances are you're not going to be practicing the recovery procedures. You're not going to have a step by step, this is what I do next. If this happens, this is what I do. If that happens, this is what I do. So think in those terms. So let me talk about stuff I've observed in the wild. These are real strategies I've seen and some I do recommend, some I don't recommend. So strategy number one. Again, I go to the client, start talking about backups as part of my maintenance. And I say what do you do for a backup? I'm going to tell you what I do, this is what do you do? And this is what they say, what's a backup? Why do I need a backup? Usually I get a blank look on that. But usually when I ask that question, I get a follow-up. My host automatically backs me up. Who here has their host automatically back up their stuff? And that's it. No, that's not it. And the first time I lost something in the hosting company had to restore it for me, it cost me, I think, 175 bucks out of my pocket to get them to put it back from the date. Yeah, I don't recommend that strategy. So you rely on the hosting company, it's great that they do it. That was many years ago. Yeah, that's probably the last time that happened, first and last time. So the fact is most hosts only, when they do actually, some hosts don't even back up. But when they do and they tell you they do back up, they'll say, hey, we only back up and keep the last seven days. And it's a rolling seven days. So the eighth days drops off, the oldest drops off the next day. They also, if they don't do that, maybe they do every 30 days. And the 31st day drops off as the days roll over. Unfortunately, that's great and everything if you need a recent back up. But if your website got infected with malware, chances are you're identifying the malware outside that 30-day window. And one thing is none of these hosts will provide a 321 backup solution, which is a real solution. Now I'll mention that in a second. I'll talk about the 321. And almost all have what I call the typical host guarantee. So you see them, they'll have, when you go to their website, you start looking at what do they provide in terms of back up. This is what they say at the very end of what they do. They'll never guarantee they'll be there. So strategy number three else to see is, I use Acme Draft. It's the most popular thing on the internet. But I save a copy to my server. Who says there are backups to their server? No one. One of many. That's good. That's good. Don't do that. Unless you're going to, you know, it's a protected directory or it's a something you just want to, well, if they hack into your website, they can get a backup. But just if they, if you just want to refer to something, maybe you want to backup if you're updating the website with all the plugins. You want to do a backup right before you do the updates. You could do that just for reference, quick reference. This was an actual official strategy of one of the clients I first, when I first met them, they were using, yes. Not saying you should do this, but you should also do something else. Yes. So when I talk about backup, I'm talking about the complete backup of the website. I'm talking about the database, all the files. The whole structure of the WordPress setup, the installation. And I know there's different ways, there are different ways to backup. There's incremental backups where whenever there's a change, it'll just backup incremental things. That's fine. But when I talk about backup, you want the whole thing. You want at least one backup per month. And anything more would be like a business decision. And I'll tell you why. All right, strategy number four, AWS. I backup and save AWS. This is someone that's starting to think about what they're doing. This is actually a real solution, but it doesn't have its faults. Who here backs up off-site and to the cloud? What would you use? Google. Google Drive. I like Google Drive. Dropbox. Dropbox? I don't like Dropbox. It's too easy to lose your backups. When you delete it on Dropbox, when you delete it, there's no confirmation like Google Drive. So you can actually delete stuff and not realize it. I like Google Drive because Google Drive actually scans for malware. Really? Yeah. Question? What's AWS? It's Amazon Web Services. So you can, there's several web services Amazon provides. And you can actually select regions throughout the world. And you can drop, take your backup and have it sent to a bucket in a certain region. Which is great. It's really cheap. It's one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest way to store your backups in a cloud. The problem with this is that last year AWS went down. And if you're in need of a backup, and this was your sole way of backing up or sole location where you placed your backups, you may not have gotten your backups for hours, if not days. I think they were down for almost an entire day. This outage was so bad last year that Amazon couldn't even get to their dashboard to inform users in other regions that it was down. Who remembers this? Yeah. So here's the link to the article. Anyone tracking with me so far? Okay. So at the end of this, I'm going to, you know, there's a lot of Q&A, different things you can do. But I'll just go through all the strategies real quick. So strategy five. So everything up until now, we're in strategy five. Everything up until now is really stuff I don't recommend. I hate to tell you. If that's your sole way of backing up, there's a lot of ways it can just fail on you. So a real backup solution is what I call the 321 solution. This solution was coined by Peter Crowe. Anyone know the solution? Anyone know Peter Crowe? Peter Crowe's a professional photographer and he started losing data. And so on his hard drive, he said, I need to come up with some sort of solution so I don't lose my data. I need backups. Anyone familiar with the 321? This is like the standard. So 321, let's talk about 321. And yeah. What's that? No, I can speak louder. Okay. 321. All right. I want to write down these numbers. The 321, the 3, is the total number of copies you'll be backing up in a particular instance. If you back up once a month, for my clients I back up at least once a month. The complete website. I also back up the database. Each of those backups should have at least three copies for that backup month. Tracking? Total. That's the three. Two. The number two is the number of media types you're going to back up to. So you could put two of the three backups, maybe on a hard drive in your office, and then the third backup, maybe you're going to put it on an SD card, DVD, something like that, different media type. So this is just a little bit of redundancy. If the hard drive fails, you have another backup. So the one is the number of backup copies that will be located off-site. So if you're in an office, whether it's your home office or it's like a regular business office in a business center, you want one of the copies to be off-site. So when I first started out, I'm like, okay, I can't really keep, I don't have an office. I worked on my house and I need to keep it someplace. So my mother lived in town and I would take a copy to her house. We had Sunday dinners almost every week. I'll just take it to her house and put it in her drawer in her desk and keep it there once a month. So there is some redundancy here. We're breaking down single points of failure, but there is a flaw. This is the flaw. This is Houston last year. And if you had a business like mine and you're using a 321 and you had off-site storage, on-site storage, you know, it may or may not have survived. If you had off-site storage at my mom's house and she lived down the street or a block over, it may or may not have survived. And if I had my server in the metro area, it may or may not have survived. So this is the flaw. So which leads me to my strategy, strategy six. I use the 432 method. Not completely just yet, but I'm migrating to it. So total, again, go back to 321. The first number is a total number of copies. The second number is the total number of media types. When I talk about media types, I mention the SD cards and I mention cloud storage just briefly. I view cloud storage as a media type because it's not really a hard drive, but it's also there's redundancy built into it. So it's slightly more than just a hard drive. And then I also put a copy in cold storage, which is the SD. So every month I'll have total number of four copies of each file type. So one file type would be the database. Second file type would be the complete everything, the complete works of that particular website. And then I put a copy in the cloud, actually two cloud types. I put in Google Drive and I also use iThemes. What's it called? iThemes, they have a service called Stash. So I put it in Stash. And then I also have a server in Chicago. So I have, now I have two copies off site. Yeah, different regions. Yeah, so I, two copies off site, so of each instance. So I can reach it anywhere. Any questions on this so far? The server happens to consider that one of your two locations? Yeah, the regional locations. I don't really consider like Google Drive. They try to keep your, whatever you put in Google Drive, they try to keep it within your local region. So it's served quicker to you when you try to retrieve it. And so it could be in your region, it may not be in your region, it could be elsewhere. But you just, they won't tell you. So you have to like have at least one copy off outside of your region in case something like a natural disaster. I mean, you know, in North Carolina, number one natural disasters hurricanes, right? And you have time to prepare. But if you're dealing with hundreds of websites, I deal with dozens of websites. And I'm trying to prepare an emergency for my household. And I don't have time at that point to start preparing a regional storage for my clients. And when it comes to cold storage, I put stuff on cold storage on an SD card every month because I don't want the chance of something to get infected over the internet. We know there's flaws and vulnerabilities throughout the net, especially on routers and switches. We know that routers and switches are infected without question. It's just, we just don't know how much. We know there's millions that are affected with malware and security flaws. I mean, last year, was it last year? This year, we had a major security flaw with the Intel chips and AMD chips. And that was completely unforeseen. So I keep stuff in cold storage and I keep it for up to 18 to 24 months. So anything that's in cold storage would be my... If I do need to go to backup and start retrieving stuff, I don't go to cold storage. I go to the cloud first because I don't want these SD cards to get infected, something. The process is like, okay, customer comes to me and says, hey, I was trying to FTP stuff up to my website and I deleted all these file folders and I thought it was something else than another and I realized I totally messed up. I need a backup. I need to use backup. And then can you get it going? So I ask him a series of questions. Okay, that's okay, okay, okay. Check, check, check. Everything you've told me we need to put the backup in. And I remind them the backup, your chances are you're going to lose your most recent, your most recent data. And are you good with that? Because if you're not good with that, we still have to try to figure out how to recover to find the most recent data. But if you're good with it, we'll put the backup in. At that point, I go to the cloud service and download something off the cloud or a local storage drive. And I don't go to my SD card because I don't want to be plugging it in. Oh, even before that, I actually do a malware check on my computer. I have the client do a malware check on his computer just to make sure there's no malware before we start working. Well, I use several things. I use Microsoft Defender every month to scan zip files, all the zip files. Whenever I do a backup, I also use, well, Google catches it. They'll tell you when it's uploaded if there's something wrong. But the one thing with Google Drive, if the file, the zip file's too large, it'll tell you it's like this file's way too large, I can't scan it. There's a limit in which you upload that file, that zip file's way too large, we're not going to scan it. So just be aware of that. I have clients who are multiple gigabytes after it's all zipped, and that's a single website form. I have other clients that are just 20, 30 megabytes when it's zipped, and that will be scanned. I theme's backup buddy, which is what I use. I theme's backup buddy comes with security scanner. You had a question? Yeah, I had a situation where my virtual private server was hacked and malware was put on it, and it didn't matter how many backups I had where because my hosting company would tell me all the following files were affected and I would restore from good backups, and two days later, all of those files would be infected too. And when I eventually took a course from iTunes about backing up, and they said, oh, if that ever happens, your hosting company will go and remove all the malware from your virtual private server. My hosting company had no intention whatsoever of doing that, and I had to switch hosting company and then backup everything I had from backups in order to get my sites back online, and it was one of these terrorist things where it was from Indonesia and it had all kinds of things like an anime, you know. Yeah, it's crazy. If you ever get hit by malware, I recommend, so across my fingers, I try to do all the right things. I've never, once a client comes to me, I've never been hit by malware. Before they come to me, about 20% of my prospective customers, about 20% have active malware or residual malware where the host went in and tried to do something to get it out. And the customer didn't even know about it. It's like, I would say, 17% to 20% of all websites I see. You have a question? No? Okay. The one thing, I really like Backup Buddy, and I really like Updraft Plus. I've standardized on Backup Buddy. Some clients have this Backup Plus or Updraft Plus installed. Both of them, you can have automatic backups, you can have schedules to backup to various cloud destinations, such as Amazon, AWS, Google Drive, and Backup Buddy has a stash. Now the one thing, like I said, you have all these backups, you're backing up, it gets expensive. It can get real expensive to backup in cloud storage and SD storage. A couple of years ago, I'm a small business. I have about 40 clients, 40 websites. I give or take 40. And a couple of years ago, it was, I could fit all my clients' websites on one SD card, 32 GB, and now I can't even fit them all on a 64 GB. Websites are just getting larger and larger and larger every year. And so that means more and more storage, especially if it's going to be long-term storage. What we're talking about here is long-term storage. Who here knows the size of their compressed website? No one? What size is your compressed website? Nine gig. Nine gig? That's pretty big. Yeah. So for all of our clients' sites compressed, I think we're around, but that's for 160 sites. Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, I have a lot fewer websites, and it's like over 62, 64 gig. Yeah, it gets expensive. So there's some business decisions everyone needs to make. It's like, am I going to make a backup every month and apply it to this either the 321 or what I do, the 432 or something similar? Because it gets expensive. And the frequency of the backup and the type of files is important to you. And I can't tell everyone here like, hey, you got a backup every week or every month. It really depends on your budget. This is an important part of your budget, but you need to market your website too. And it's the whole purpose of having a website. But you have to say, hey, I need to do this. It's important. Any other questions? This is short and unexpected, but 18 to 24 months. Yeah, you want to be able to store enough so that you know you're going to have a clean file at some point if you get malware or something like that. You can be touching the backup not for reasons of malware. It could be you deleted. A lot of the backups I touch are reasons, are because of human error. People deleting, and number one thing is people actually deleting directories on accident. I use FileZilla. Who here uses FileZilla? Or the file manager in Cpanel? Yeah, it's easy to delete directories, especially if you're doing stuff for the very first time. The first time I deleted a directory was I was actually working on FileZilla on three different websites. I had an instance of FileZilla on three different websites open. I got a phone call and right when I was on the phone call I go, okay, I'm just going to push this button because it can take some time to get rid of this stuff. And I hung up. I'm looking at the FileZilla. I'm like, oh man, that was my website. And that was the last time I worked on FileZilla with multiple websites open. So if you get infected by malware, go to Security. Go to Security. There's a couple of choices. If you get re-infected, there's a couple of things that are going on. You could have multiple websites on that same server. And chances are a lot of people here will have a shared server. And you can be in the shared server. It could be cross-contamination going on. And you can clean your website and it can be infected the next day because of cross-contamination. Or it could be not because of cross-contamination is that you saw others the code were the malware is I'm just going to delete it. Well, there might be a whole bunch of other code elsewhere you're not seeing. And it just comes back. So if you get malware, I say try to find a clean Number one, first thing you should be doing is or first option you should be considering is finding a clean backup. If you can't do that, go to Security.net. Security.net. S-U-C-U-R-I.net. WordFence also has a disaster recovery. Yeah, they do. Yeah, WordFence too. And I think it's about $100 for them to clean it. Yeah. Yeah, these security companies are... I don't recommend trying to do it on your own. At all. Your website. So they'll clean up your website and if you're on a shared server, I'd move to a new server. Well, first thing is every website should have a firewall. Every website should be updated regularly. All the plugins, the themes, should be updated. I also recommend, highly recommend, using themes that have been audited by a security company and are regularly audited or updated by their manufacturer. If you contact a theme manufacturer and say, hey, do you audit? Do you have security? Security provides the service and I think WordFence provides it too. Do you audit your themes on a regular basis? And they email you back and they go, yeah, we do. Okay, that's great. Off the top of my head, I only know five manufacturers that do that. And if they don't get back to you, that means they don't do it. So what was your original question? So using a host is important. If they check for malware, I don't think there's too many hosts that actively check for malware. I think if they do, it's an add-on option, like SiteLock. Yeah, I haven't used Flywheel, I use SiteGround. Yeah, I'd recommend that. I use SiteGround and my SiteGround account is a cloud VPS. And so when you get into the VPS aspect of hosting, a lot more is on, in my case it's on me, to do a lot more effort for my clients instead of them doing the concierge service. It's on me to do it. But I would never, never rely on your host exclusively for the backup. Yeah, but yeah, if they offer that service, that would be great. That's great. I know SiteLock does that as well. The thing about hosting service, you'll find out whatever you say, you'll burn. Yeah, I use SiteGround and I use WP Engine. I know Flywheel is a good one. And there's a couple of other good ones out there that I migrated away from, I'm not going to mention, but for various reasons I had to migrate away from because it was very difficult dealing with them. They'll bill me for things I canceled like a year ago. Why am I still being billed for this? That sort of thing. It's just craziness. Not for hosting. Yeah, I do use 101 for ordering domains. That's a very good one. Very expensive. Some of their hosting plans are over $150 a month. For the right client, it's like Flywheel, but higher. Yeah, all the hosting companies have different levels and there's a reason why they have different levels. And you can't expect, you really can't expect your business to be run on the lower level stuff if you're serious about your company or your business. I heard good things about Pantheon for sure. I just never used them. Yeah, I would use, yeah, all four of those. WP Engine, Pantheon, SiteGround, Flywheel. Any other questions? Yes, so back to business practices. So I can't tell you what you should be doing for your business. So if you have a blogging site, right, and you maybe update the blog maybe once a month, just do a backup once a month. If you have a blogging site and you blog weekly, you might consider weekly, maybe not. Or maybe twice a month, or maybe just still once a month. This stuff gets expensive. The whole of this stuff gets expensive. Another method where you can backup every day for a week and every week for a month and just have that stuff drop off. So you can have the most recent, say something went down today, you can recover from yesterday's backup. That's a method as well. But what I'm talking about here is you've got to start doing something. Don't rely on your host to do it because there's always a caveat. If you read the fine print, almost always a caveat. It's like, oh, we do all this for you, but don't expect us to have it. So, and then e-commerce, to answer your question about e-commerce, it really depends how often you get orders and you want to, and how expensive those orders are. You want to, and the software that you're using on your server is important. So if you're doing a lot of order processing, you probably want to do it every day. Even if you do get an order every other day, you probably want to do it every day. And then maybe hold two weeks' worth of backups. And then from there, have a monthly backup. Now there's some hosts that allow you to download the backup. So they do the backup for you, maybe a 30-day backup. And then you can go in. And this is like WP Engine. You can go into WP Engine and download the backup that they've, or initiate a backup manually, or download an instance and save it that way. Some hosts don't allow you to do it at all. And you have to rely on their support staff to go and install the backup. And you can't store the backup like I'm explaining here. Which is not good. Any other questions? It's a good, like, like, e-commerce site. Yeah. So I have a monthly maintenance plan for my clients. I charge $70 a month for basic maintenance. More sometimes based upon the configuration of their website, what they have. So it's $70 per WordPress instance. My clients have multiple WordPress instances. And if they have a second or more, I'll charge additional $20 or $30, depending upon what it is. And then I'll charge more if they're e-commerce website. I find that e-commerce websites are the ones that give me the most trouble. I'm always touching them, like, what's going on here. And ticketing sites, which is a subset of e-commerce site. So that would cover... You can actually see what my coverage for maintenance. If you go to myinternetscout.com forward slash maintenance. And I update the maintenance every year. Yeah. So if they're not under maintenance with me, I just don't do backups for them. Because it's expensive. My firm probably just in software services spends about... It depends on the month, maybe 22... About 2,000 to 2,200 a month just in software services. So when I have a client... I don't know if anyone here was at the last talk. I can't afford $150 clients. It wouldn't even cover my overhead. Does that answer your question? Okay. Anything else? Anyone have problems trying to set up backup? I know backup, buddy, is $80 a year. It's worth its weight in gold. You can have multiple schedules. So you can schedule it. So it backs up to G Drive one week. And then two weeks later, it backs up to S3 or Rackspace. Backup, buddy, both backup, buddy, and of Dread Plus, they are plugins. And then you can schedule... You can do manual backups for either backup, buddy allows you. And again, I standardized on that. Just makes things simple for me. You can... You have a choice. You can have, like, set up a schedule where it backs up just the database. Or it backs up just... Or the complete system, or just files. And then you can say, hey, for this instance on the schedule, I wanted the backup on the 28th of the month. And then store a copy on the server if you want to do that. You can have it sent to your Google Drive account. And you can choose the file folder it's sent to. You can configure all that. Or, yeah. And both of them also have cloud storage, you know. So, like, Dread Plus has... We use both of these that are false, just like iTunes has their own thing, too. So, sometimes that's nice, depending on cost, but because it's integrated with your backup plugin, so you pay your payment for that plugin anyway in front of an additional amount, they give you 50 gigs of storage to call your... So, that's Google Drive. And I like backup buggy, so I use it for migration, too. And the key is that you got to practice it. Practicing... Well, once everything's backed up, practicing migrating the website or restoring the website in an account. Because time comes, you need the backup, and you've never restored a backup. You're going to be so stressed out, I can't even tell you. If you're a designer agency and you've got clients breathing down your neck, what's going on? And I have this one client, something that ever goes wrong, it's like they get on the phone with me almost instantly. It's like I'm already working on it, but they know about it at three o'clock in the morning. I'm like, how'd you know about that? In terms of maintenance, I try to predict things and try to say, okay, figure out scenarios that could happen and try to avoid those scenarios as best as possible. Yeah, exactly. BackupBuddy has issues on GoDaddy. The GoDaddy configuration. I don't know what it is. It's how GoDaddy configured their accounts, but within BackupBuddy it says, if we've, BackupBuddy will say, hey, we've discovered you're on GoDaddy, or you're using WordFence. Try to set these settings in the Advanced Setting tab. And so certain things they identify and they'll give you advice right on the screen. Their support's awesome, too. And with BackupBuddy, if you ever get the 4001 error, have you gotten that? The 4001 error means you've run out of storage space on your server. So if you ever get that with BackupBuddy, you'll get errors, like zipping errors, that sort of thing if you run out of storage. And so that means you need a larger account. And what you don't want to do is be storing a whole bunch of backups on your local server, your live server, because it'll just eat up your storage. And next thing you know, it's like, okay, my site's down, you think it's something really bad and all you have to do is go and delete the backups. And so I just don't like storing backups on the server. And it's not really a backup, it's more like a copy. You could use it if you're retrieving the backup if you're doing updates, but it's not good practice. Anything else? For Firewall, I usually use WordFence or Security. I use Firewall. Yeah, I'm somewhat familiar, not enough to give solid advice on. I have Sidelock because I have a community forum that I get about 300 posts a day from people all over the world. And if I lose one day's worth of data, it turns out that was the day they wrote the most brilliant thing they've ever written. They could never possibly recover that, and it's all my fault. And that's like that hack, and it took a while, like I said, like I described to get out of it because I had to move to a different hosting company because my hosting company was never going to clean my vertical private server of the malware, and I didn't know enough to clean every single file on the whole server. I'm not immune to administrators or anything. So I switched to a cheaper hosting company and then I put Sidelock on for $100 a month. And you know, I asked my users for a little bit of money and they pay enough for it so that they pay for the Sidelock. It's $100 a month, but since I got it, everything's perfect all the time, and I've never had, you know, I mean, they will keep malware away for that amount of money. That's their top service. Yeah, the one thing that they will actually actively take out the malware or inform me that there's malware there, but the malware will come back if it's a patch that you need and you haven't patched that piece of software that's vulnerable. But that's, you know, you got to do updates. That's the number one reason for not getting our best way not to get hacked and have just a basic firewall. I've noticed with Sidelock, if you're on a higher level plan, that's good stuff, but if there's an entry level Sidelock, it's not so good. True, true. But when you do pay for that upper level plan and if you ever do have a call and you can call them up and they can instantly know what you're in. One difference too, security specifically WordPress. So if it's a WordPress site, like I think they may have the edge a little bit on that where Sidelock is at the end. Yeah, and I'll check the IP addresses of where your website is. If you're on a shared server, your IP address is shared and you can actually do a who is and find out how many other websites are sharing that IP address. So there's probably a dozen or so online on my server. But if you go to a typical popular hosting company, no names mentioned, but they oversubscribed their shared servers. I actually saw as many, just recently, in the last few days, as many as 900 websites on a single IP. It's just crazy. I mean, isn't that crazy? 2000? Yeah, and this is a very well-known brand. It's like you've got to be crazy to have a site on IP like that. So if you ever get hacked, do the right thing. Use one of your clean backups or get your website clean by security and then move to a new server. That server could be the issue. And a lot of times the hosting company will not acknowledge that to you. They deny, deny, deny, deny, deny. Because they know that we talk. We talk to each other as designers and agencies and there's word camps every week and word gets out and they deny and deny and deny. But yeah, I can see 20% of the new customers that come to me I can see that the host would, like, they comment out like these files that are like what are these files and then you realize it's old malware. They tried to neutralize. So who's going to get a backup system going? You really can't afford not to have one. Yeah, the one thing about backup buddy is when I migrate sites you learn how to use backup buddy to migrate the site and then when it comes time to use it for restoring the website with the backup it's the same process, which is nice. Highly recommend backup buddy. So if you have any questions I'll be at the happiness bar or you can email me. Again, this is what we're trying to achieve, right? I'll go back. Right there.