 Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so glad that you're here. And I've already started the fun with Josh and Jeff. They're here to talk to us about the intersection that crosses storytelling with fundraising. These guys are fantastic. Josh, we've had you on before. Josh, I think this is your first time here, your first debut on the nonprofit show. But soon we'll ask them, yeah, thrilled to have you. Soon we'll ask them to share with us a little bit about themselves and a little bit about story raise. So I'm just thrilled to have storytelling with fundraising as our conversation today. Also want to remind all of our viewers and listeners around the globe who we are if we haven't met yet. Although you'll notice I'm flying solo today. So I'm Jarrett Ransom, nonprofit nerd, CEO of the Raven Group. I blissfully give Julia the day off as we have two guests. I joked and told Jeff that Julia and I played Rochambeau and I won. So Julia Patrick, we also want to thank you for creating this wonderful platform of the nonprofit show. Julia serves as the CEO of the American Nonprofit Academy. Check out the website, Plethora of Information, tons of resources for all of you. Also want to give a nod and gratitude to these amazing partners that allow us to have conversations like the one we're about to embark on with both Jeff and Josh. So shout out of gratitude to Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, nonprofit thought leader, fundraising academy at National University, 180 management group, your part-time controller, staffing boutique, JMT consulting, nonprofit nerd, as well as nonprofit tech talk. These companies have been with us most through our almost four-year journey. So it's been fantastic. They've helped us to produce almost a thousand episodes. March 5th, we'll mark that milestone. Go ahead and pull out your phone. I'm sure we're all like near it. Sitting on it, it's next to us. Scan that QR code. You can also find us on the streaming broadcast as well as podcast platform. So wherever you queue up your entertainment, you can also find the nonprofit show there. Okay, guys, that's it for the housekeeping. I am thrilled to have you both here. Josh, I want to welcome you back. And again, for our viewers and listeners, we have two rock stars joining us today. Josh Kligman, CEO and co-founder of Story Raise, as well as Jeff Rom, CMO, pardon me, as well as co-founder at Story Raise. Josh, tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about Story Raise. Thanks, Jared. And I can't believe you're almost at a thousand episodes. Congratulations. That's unbelievable. Thank you. Well, I'm the CEO of Story Raise. We're a solution for nonprofits to create digital reports and campaigns and Story Raise is all about that intersection of storytelling and fundraising. And I have a background working in nonprofit marketing on the digital partnership and field marketing side with a national nonprofit in partnership with universities for a little over 10 years prior to founding Story Raise in 2019 and before that marketing and sales development in the corporate world. And really happy to be here. Thank you. Jeff, what about you? What brings you to this wonderful sector that we work in? Thanks, Jared. It's great to be here. I'm a first-timer, but I feel like I've known your show for many years. So thank you for what you're doing. So my name is Jeff Rom. I have been in the marketing field for 20 years. I ran my own agency until a couple of years ago. We were acquired. And then I said, you know what? I need to start a product-based company with Josh and we're excited to be, you know, using our expertise and experience in nonprofit marketing and creating hopefully something that nonprofits can use for many years to come. Well, I'm thrilled to have you both here as we dive in and our time will fly by. I know it will. But let's talk about storytelling and fundraising and really how this blends together. Jeff, what does this mean and how is this showing up in our sector? So this is something I've actually been thinking about for almost 20 years. I started out my career in nonprofit organizations working in marketing. And what I found was that the marketing teams and the development teams were kind of working often in silos. So you had a lot of great innovation going on in marketing, but we didn't really understand what was happening on the fundraising side, what the development teams were hearing from the donors on the ground, like they're having these one-on-one solicitations or they're meeting with donors, they're mingling with donors, they're engaging with them. Yet the marketing team is kind of off in a corner doing their own thing, thinking that what their messages are is actually what the donors are looking for. But oftentimes I found that there was kind of a clash. And so the idea of bringing storytelling and fundraising together is simply the idea of saying, okay, we understand an organization has a mission, but the donors care about certain things. We wanna make sure that we're telling the stories that impact the work that the organization's doing so that that resonates with the donors. And that's really where we've been trying as a company with Story Raise is to bring those two disciplines together so that we can start working as one organization and thinking about it as one strategy rather than having a marketing strategy and a fundraising strategy. If you're telling the right stories and soliciting donors for the right causes, then they should be really working together. So that's kind of our mantra, if you will. And Jeff, I also wanna call out for a lot of our small nonprofits, they are not privileged to have two separate departments, right? And so it's Markcom Fundraising. It's like one big long in a title. So this is really interesting. I've been in a lot of those roles, a lot of those departments, and because I'm not frontline in the programming, I have a really hard time really extrapolating these amazing stories from the program team. And I want to tell the stories, I want that impact to be within fundraising. So I'm really excited to dive deeper into this conversation. Let's move into the research as well as the data, because this can help indicate donor response. Jeff, you've done a lot of work in this research area. Am I recalling that correctly? Okay. Yeah, I've been doing research in terms of how marketing and fundraising intersect for many years, but we recently adjusted some research in January. So last month, we conducted research, it's our first research study that we conducted as story raise. We worked with a third party. We basically interviewed and surveyed donors from across the country who at least gave to a nonprofit organization within the last 12 months. And we wanted to understand what donors care about and what kinds of stories would resonate. And we learned a lot. Our research study will be published next month. But what I can share with you now is that, and this is not gonna be earth shattering, but the data shows us that if you tell the stories in an authentic way, in a transparent way, donors will actually give you more of their wallet, because they wanna feel that they're with an organization that understands them, but that's also doing good in the world and that can resonate with what they care about. So like you said before about the intersection, to me, storytelling is 80% listening. It's really listening to what donors and people care about. And then it's bringing those stories to life for them so that they can really feel like this is a cause that they wanna get around. So that's, I mean, there's a lot of research that came out, but really what we're learning is that, the more that organizations can share with the donors about where the money's going and tell stories about the issues they care about, the more likely they're gonna give. It's not rocket science, right? Not rocket science. Julie and I always like to say data is sexy, right? So knowing the data and making informed decisions is critical. Josh, what would you add to this? Cause I'm really curious, you know, more of that donor response and what you're seeing. I mean, like you said, Jared's hard to find those stories. And when I was at a nonprofit, we spent a lot of time trying to find those best stories that could represent the brands and really hit the nail on the head. But we had a lot of staff and we had a lot of time to do it and there was enough resources to dedicate like that time and effort to that. For smaller nonprofits though, where, you know, you don't have enough time to source those stories, let alone pick out the really good ones and then have to sit down and write them and tell it and then find the channels that you wanna go tell it through you really need to find time saving efforts. And I think that if you spend too much time thinking about, is this the right story? You're kind of torn back and forth. You're not gonna advance as well as that brand next to you or another nonprofit that's just putting content out there, putting content out there, putting content out there because they're getting more brand recognition with their audience, maybe your audience and you'll just fall behind. So we're trying to create technology that can help speed up that process and allow you to just kind of put stuff out there. So we're focused on telling stories through digital reports like annual reports and impact reports, donor reports, even raising revenue and donations through solicitation type reports of all types, whether it's as big as the capital campaign or something smaller. And then also with AI. I know you've had a lot of, you know, shows and topics talking about that where we're coming in on that is finding ways for nonprofit marketing and fundraisers to use tools that we're putting out and build fully baked campaigns using AI like for social media. And if you can latch yourself around that idea and move so much faster, you can get help with the content and get a big, big head start. Then you're putting out tons of content and telling your stories because if your donors don't know what you're up to outside of just a few communications a year, it's gonna make them really hard for them to give more of their money or time. Right, that's right. And I have a workshop I do about reuse, repurpose, your content and really that impact and how are we using that narrative in all of the ways throughout our content calendar, if you will. Talk to us, Josh, a little bit more about the value of seeing as well as hearing about this impact because we also hear from donors, like this financial transparency is important. And one of the reasons donors continue to give is because they understand how they have made an impact. Talk to us about this value. Yeah, they get it. And I think that's what the research that we did shows like Jeff was talking about. And if they don't see how the funds are being spent, then you don't know what you don't know. I mean, why would you come and volunteer at an event or give more money or give any money at all if there's been radio silence or not enough communication? And you may think that you're putting out enough of those messages, but it doesn't mean that your donors are seeing them. So think about donors, but also volunteers and board members, other stakeholders you have and let them know how the money or the time that they've been putting in is being spent. And I think that goes through stories about the real constituents that you're impacting in your community and engaging them too. So if you can engage them in really unique ways through video or social media, which you could do with story-raised technology, it kind of brings things like even a simple annual report to life because you go from different reports that have text, text, text, text, text and maybe a few photos to something really interesting that shows everything in action with some sound and motion to it. I think it makes a big difference. Yeah. You know, I heard you both have this marketing background. Jeff, kind of on the spot, right? Like what are you seeing really adds value when it comes to the donors seeing and hearing about the impact? Is there anything that's become like the latest trend or the latest best practice that we need to know about? So this may not be the answer you're looking for but I'll share it anyway. I think rather than think about rather than think about trends or the platforms per se because those are always gonna change, right? What we're using today may not be the same platforms we're using five years from now. However, I think consistency and regularity is really important. Getting in front of people consistently and getting the message out there and the stories out there so that people can understand what it is that you're doing with their dollars. So I'll give you one little tidbit from our research report that has not been published yet but when in our survey we found that more than 75% of the respondents said they're likely to continue supporting a nonprofit that regularly updates them with stories about the people or the causes that they serve. So what that tells us is that it's not okay to just send a thank you note to a donor after they gave to a certain project or even if you've been transparent and you show them where the money's going it's continually updating them and saying, hey, you gave us this money last month here's our progress. This is what we're doing. This is how the work that we're doing because of you has been able to create real impact. And if you keep that journey going with the donor then they're more likely to continue to stay engaged. And that's not easy especially for those smaller organizations that you said before are wearing like multiple hats but the consistency and I think the amplification of those stories on a regular basis is to me like the most important and when it comes to content and story time. I really latched on to the word regular. Can you quantify that? What is regular, right? And it's kind of like normal, like defined normal because regular and normal I think are the symptoms. So it's, look, I always say that we have to be realistic. So regular is the, you also have to think about what the capacity of the organization is. But I would say in my experience over many, many years doing this that you wanna have like touch points with donors. So there should be a 30 day touch point. So every 30 days in my opinion you should have a touch point with a donor. That doesn't always meet an email. It could be a phone call event or it could be something you send in the mail. It could be a link to a digital report but some kind of touch point every 30 days I think is a way to keep the donor and to keep the organization top of mind for the donor. Obviously if we could do more than that, every couple of weeks of giving some kind of update that does not mean asking for money. That means just sharing with donors the value of their gift and what it is that you're doing. The asking for money should come at only a certain points during the year but other than that you should be giving gifts to your donors in terms of the stories and the resources and the value add that you have for the organization. Thank you for that. And Josh is that multi-channel really important because I just wanna call out like there is so much noise in our world right now and I feel often because we are working in all of these different areas especially for our small shop nonprofits. I don't feel that we can rely solely on making a social media post right or solely on sending out an electronic newsletter. Like how important is multi-channel marketing when it comes to what Josh said, sharing the impact and helping the donors see and hear this impact because one channel is not gonna hit our whole audience. Am I correct in that assumption? Yeah, you're totally right. I think you gotta think about where your audience is, right? And don't put the pressure on yourself to say, all right, we've gotta have Facebook, Twitter, or X and LinkedIn and Instagram and then we're gonna hit email and then we're gonna do a newsletter and then we're gonna send them direct mail or even half of that. I mean, it's totally relevant to how much time and staff you have like you and Jeff were talking about but I would just think about who your audience is, what they do and where they are. I mean, if your audience is spending all their time at a supermarket and on Facebook and they don't check email, they don't do anything else, put flyers up in the supermarket and hit them up on Facebook. I mean, I'm giving a random example on purpose because you have to really think about where they are and what their demographics are. I think while people are listening to the nonprofit show right now, they could be zoned in and focused, they could be doing something else. So I'm talking to you, the person that's doing something else, they got about how busy your donors are when they're doing something else and you're trying to talk to them. So the consistent message is important as well as where you're reaching them. And it doesn't have to be everywhere but it's gotta be in more than one spot. Jeff, did you wanna add to that? I saw you muted yourself, so. I don't do anything else when Josh is talking. I'm so focused on what he's saying. So I don't know how anyone's tuning out. I only need one channel when I talk to Josh. Yeah, I mean, I don't wanna repeat what Josh said. I would just, the only thing I would add is that if you are on a channel even, it's knowing the tone and the voice to use on that channel is just as important as the consistency of being on that channel, right? So we've found that the expectation of users is different when they're on LinkedIn, for example, versus when they're scrolling through their Instagram feed. So we have to, yes, know where the donors are, but we also wanna be able to speak to the donors in the language and the tone that they're expecting so that on a LinkedIn, you might wanna share a really thoughtful impact report because it's a more business-driven audience there. And we wanna show, we wanna speak in a more professional way. On Instagram, you might wanna just show a lot of the visuals of the photos of the people you're supporting for your organization. So it's knowing the right channels and it's knowing how to speak on those channels. We had a customer in New Orleans that's a large foundation and they were moving from a PDF of an annual report or an impact report over to a web-based digital report with story raise. And they said, well, we're worried that people might not know that it's now online, they're used to getting it in the mail. So we landed on this solution where they would mail this jumbo postcard to them with a QR code and the website written underneath saying, go online and look for it and started to train that audience over time so they'd get used to it. They also emailed them, they talked to people. So they hit them with multiple channels basically to send them just to a website. They didn't wanna just rely on email because they didn't want a huge drop-off or people calling saying, hey, where's the report? I need that as the reminder to give. Thank you for sharing that. It reminds me, I either rarely get impact reports anymore. Most of them are digital. I did receive one this last year and it was beautiful, right? Like it definitely put some money and some time and some effort and it had a QR code on several pages which then you could read more. Like if you wanted to know information that wasn't printed there, it took you down so many more channels and it was interactive, it was engaging. It was really very well done, right? Like I'm sure maybe I'm dating myself but like I still have swipe files, right? And I'm like, that one's going in my swipe file. Like I'm keeping this reference that it was just very well done. We don't have much time. So I would love for us to talk about Josh, how AI is improving our storytelling. What does that look like now and when we think of nonprofits and how many hats we wear and we're juggling a lot of balls and that there's a lot on our plate, how is AI helping us? I mean, it's so new that it's daunting. I mean, it's daunting for me. I'm sure most other people feel the same way. So how I like to think of it anytime I've used AI just generally speaking is that it's just given a big head start to whatever I'm working on. Usually it's me trying to write an overview or a summary of something and I use it for text and copy. I think that when it comes to using AI for fundraising and marketing and you're getting down to like the storytelling with donors there's more than just the writing that can come into play. We started thinking about what is created by nonprofits and we talked about social media earlier. I think there's also email campaigns, all these different channels we talked about even direct mail. So we started making technology that can help do those campaigns faster where the AI can learn about your organization, what your goals are and give you suggestions or take your input on what different campaigns should look like. So what's the tone of your upcoming gala or golf tournament or end of year campaign or a capital campaign or even just brand awareness and produce all types of social posts or email campaigns or direct mail and work in tandem to build something comprehensive that you can package up like a creative brief and share with your colleagues or board and say, this is what we're gonna do and you'd have this beautiful series of either photography or illustrations and posts and copy and the right hashtags you otherwise would be spending months on or tens of thousands of dollars I guess, right? Instead of allowing some suggestions to come your way and then kind of manipulating it from there. So it still feels like your own brand and that's what we're after because it could save time and you probably wanna do this stuff or are doing these types of campaigns anyway. So that's how we're trying to play our part to help with AI. I cannot wait. Now this is a new product that's rolling out. Is that correct? Can you give us more? Because you guys are big teases. Jeff has already dropped this research that's not out yet and you've dropped this product that's not out yet. So what does that look like? Well, the product is called Story Raise Campaigns. We have a wait list at storyraise.com right now where you can find it. It'll be out in the spring time, spring 2024 and the research report that Jeff talked about will be out before that and you'll be able to find that on the website too. But we also have a newsletter you can sign up for and learn about all the stuff at storyraise.com. Oh my gosh. I feel like we need you both back again, right? Like Jeff, I want to get, as I always say, I wanna get nerdy with this research. Like what's come out? What's really hit the top lines? What do we need to know? And then definitely this AI, Josh, I have to ask this question and Jeff feel free to answer it as well. I'm on a lot of forums. I am on a lot of chat groups and things like that. And I still see people saying, how are you using AI? Cause I feel like I'm cheating every time I use it. Like, should we feel guilty of using AI? I have my answer, but I'd like to hear from you. I would say no, generally speaking. No, you shouldn't feel guilty because it's a tool. I think if you use AI as a tool, it's useful. If you use it to just try to do everything and just copy and paste, then it's really not gonna likely fulfill what it is that you want it to do or it's not gonna be as authentic as you needed to be. What we've built with Story Race Campaigns is a tool for people to go in. They answer a few prompts, a few questions and what the Story Race Campaigns will do is give you back an entire social media email or direct mail campaign that then you can take and use for your donors. But the caveat is it gets you about 85% of the way there and we encourage, we will encourage our customers to go in and make edits to make it more feel and sound like them, but it's gonna get you so far along that it saves you time. And we know from, Josh and I know from having worked in the trenches in nonprofits, time is everything, right? Everyone's feeling stressed, you're feeling stretched so that you could answer a few questions and it gives you images and text and puts it neatly in a folder for you and all you have to do is make some tweaks and say, no, I don't like this picture, I'll use that picture. I don't like this text, I'm gonna make a little edit here, save it, export it and you're good to go. That saves hours and hours of time. So we're really trying to help organizations save time and money essentially, but still it's gotta be authentic to who the organization is and it's not, so that's the way to use it more as a tool rather than use it as a crutch, if you will. I appreciate that. Yeah, to add Josh. I couldn't say it any better, so I'll just, I mean, I'll add that, I mean, technology in general of your finding tools to help you move faster and smarter in the ways that Jeff just described, you're gonna be way ahead. And I guess the converse of that is that if you don't, you're gonna be way behinds and that might be fine moving at your own pace, but watch all the competition blow by, it's unbelievable what's going on. Sorehead, yeah. And I agree with both of you, like to me, it's a wonderful tool, I use it daily. And it's definitely a go-to. Well, Josh and Jeff, you have been fantastic, again, for our viewers around the globe and our listeners around the globe. You just heard from Josh Kligman, CEO, co-founder at Story Raise, as well as Jeff Rum, CMO, co-founder at Story Raise. Check out storyraise.com. You're going to want to get on their email list so that you get this research, but we're also gonna get these guys back on because we need to know this research. And then also that AI tool, yeah, you guys have just been so much fun. Josh, I'm grateful that you said yes again to my invitation and for bringing a friend along with you this time. It's been great. Thanks for having us any time. Yeah, thank you so much, this is a blast. Awesome. Well, I know Julia is watching, I see her. So hello to Julia and thank you for creating this platform. And I'm Jarrett Ransom, nonprofit nerd as I push up my nerd glasses. Also want to say thank you to these amazing partners that allow us the time and the investment to have conversations like this with Jeff and Josh. So shout out of gratitude to our friends over at Bloomerang American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Fundraising Academy at National University, 180 Management Group, Your Part-Time Controller, Staffing Boutique, JMT Consulting, Nonprofit Nerd, as well as Nonprofit Tech Talk. Again, so much gratitude to these companies that allow us these opportunities. March 5th, mark your calendar because that is our 1,000th episode. And we have also end every single episode prior to today as well as today with these words. And I'm gonna say them and Julia and I always say they land different every single day and they are to stay well so you can do well. Thank you guys, I appreciate you.