 I am going to talk about the test and grades that is the examination part what we normally conduct as such. I have been chairman and vice chairman for GE and gate examinations and that also has given me some added inputs for this kind of lecture out here. Suddenly what exactly is done in gate or GE is not going to be talked about, but certainly otherwise also I would like to take in from what we have been doing out there and try to see if our grading gets improved the setting of our test gets improved as such. Today we will be moving with this particular aspect as such and we are going the whole group if I am not mistaken is with the engineering background as such. As you just now came to know I am from mechanical background as such and may be a few examples which will come in may not be to liking of people from other disciplines, but to that extent I cannot help it as such. I will try to keep the things simple and go for that particular kind of arrangement as such. The presentation today is going to look at these different aspects as such. I am just going to briefly introduce the topic as such. The different types of problems which we normally come across not only while setting the problems, but even doing conducting the test and what kind of additional precautions one has to take if the test is to be conducted in a proper and very smooth fashion as such. Once we conduct the test the next immediate next process which comes in is the assessment process as such and that also as a bearing on these two and final future things as such. So, one has to give enough importance not only to conduct the test, but also how to exactly assess that particular paper or something. And all these studies which we are going to look at nothing is specifically for me alone the enough inputs which I got and some of them are going to give us the requirements in the form of setting up the question papers or questions as such. And it is going to have a lot of implications on the further things not only on the teachers part as such, but also for the students. So, both ways it is going to be important and would like to have that part considered. When we talk about certain things we also feel that at times the students have not understood the concepts as such and not understanding is one part understanding it in a wrong way makes it more difficult as such. And that is what we are calling as misconceptions out here as such. So, that part also will be saying exactly what kind of a problems are the students face some small examples also I will be talking about out there as such. And then we will be looking at this taxonomic scheme of problem solving as such. I will not define this particular term out here, but as we move on at the time we will take it up in more details as such. The problems when we say it again there has to be some particular thinking going into that problem setting part as such. It is not making a question paper of six questions or six questions with A and B giving some options within them it is not only that there is something more to that which will have to be thought of as such. And then again the feedback to students which is something which one has to know and do it in a proper way otherwise whatever efforts you put in as a teacher or as an examiner for a particular person. The efforts may turn out to be totally futile as such. Nothing may come out of that because these students do not get the feedback you conduct the next exam and you will again give the response exactly on the same lines as he did the course time as such. So, this we have the different types of problems and the test to be conducted. We even have to start setting up to to ensure it as such in IIT also we have the same practice we have the tutorials conducted after certain portion is covered or after a two weeks or a certain time period is set. And I am not looking at setting questions for that as something different from examination part as such because they are also when we are looking at this aspect our intention is to get something out from them. And at the same time to know what exactly we have put in a effort for their understanding how much has been accepted, how much has been realized actually, how much has finally gone into the head and what is not remaining only on paper as such. So, that aspect is the one which brings us to tutorial sheet kind of question. Once we say that we have said the questions this will be the whole thing to the students how to solve them. And that is again not a very right practice the students are not trained for solving each and every different type of problem as such they may have problems at a at some stage or the other during any particular question the type of questions and other thing will be looking at little bit later. When we talk about the assessment they have assessments also on different clients and a few forms which it will take welcome to that also later. Let me introduce this as such as I said I am aware that all the people out here are from engineering with engineering background as such. And it makes my job little bit simpler because I have gone through the engineering education went for the somewhat larger time period because the am taken PED as such and when we talk of PED in general one things that is going for research problem he does not have to answer to anything it is not like that. Every now and then you have to give progressive and ask progress assessments are there again the people are going to ask questions. At some stage or the other every one of us will tend to go to that level where you have to look at everything as an examiner or expert in that small area and put the questions to a candidate. And when you are doing all this there has to be some thinking in the mind as such and the methods which will be using for evaluation that has to give us a feedback how much the students have understood and how much part they have not been able to make out as such. So, looking at these particular parts as such let us if we have look at what will be different types of test which we normally come across as such it is not just the end semester test or the annual examination paper or such thing. We need to go through large number of evaluations at every point and so it is not that everything turns out to be a written test as such. So, when we are conducting the wire as such in series to a quizzes and tests we are again splitting it as a quiz and a test as such. Here we normally consider the case where the time period is very short the questions are also short, but something has to again come out of that. Test is a slightly elongated process compared to the quizzes as such. This becomes a handy comes in handy for the regular course work part as such, but when we give the conduct the experience in the laboratories the practicals as we call them. When they conduct the practicals they are coming out with final results they submit it and again the evaluation is not based only on what they submit as such. Evaluation is based again to ensure that they have understood something something has been grasped what you wanted them to and from that angle the Y O O C is conducted. In most places as I told earlier or the professor told that I did my graduation from a biology engineering college. Not a very good college not even that time, but I cannot say that people were not good. They were not good people good faculty members who brought something into us and that is why we are out here as such. So, it is not that the college did not have good facilities, college even did not have its own building. So, forget about the facilities what you can think of as such. It was a political building and particular floor was given for the engineering college a few additional experiments set up apart from what were there for the polytechnic students and so we are coming with that background. So, in a rural background you can look at it in normal terminology as a rural and urban background. So, I am from a rural background in that sense as such. But that has not really made a difference because there are people a good state of people more than 50 60 percent people were good as teachers out there as such and that was small place we did not have too many industries around. So, still we went for practical tool the took us to all different places explained the thing at different locations. So, there were a lot of efforts being put and that is how the things were working. Now of course that college is good they have got good building and good set up faculty and many PEDs are all there and things are working well now, but that time was somewhat different this is this was slightly discussing from the course part as such. But why I am putting it is environment is conducted one has to again look at it in a separate way as such. Whether to I attended a part of the last session as such I did not attend a full session, but I attended about half an hour 45 minutes part as such and I learnt out there whether it should be a group evaluation or an individual evaluation. So, both can be done simultaneously it is not necessary that you must call in one by one and talk to him and get the impressions are made as such. The discussion can take place simultaneously. In fact, what I prefer do not be preferred by everyone else normally I if it is a group of four I call them in batches of two each as such and when I am asking certain questions I see the things which are reflected on the face of the other student. At times he immediately reacts even though he is supposed to keep cool and keep mum he suddenly will jump in that no no sir this is not correct this is the should be like this. So, that kind of thing happened and that interaction in a way helps the students as such. So, it is not nothing wrong in having a group evaluation, but that group should be a small number it cannot be four people or six people at a time then the thing may not work as in even that happening even in the final practical identification as such. But that does not turn out to be a good practice in that sense. Again the presentations of students seminars and projects these two are again on totally different lines as such you have not taught them anything you have maybe help them in looking at the literature or some such thing. And the idea is also totally different it is not something which they have to reproduce or some such thing. They have to have a look at say maybe 10, 15, 20 depending on how much time is given how much weightage is given to those seminars as such and they have to pick up the literature get involved with that and try to put the thing. So, that there is a proper link established between different papers and not only that this this almost every student is in position to do within a paper. But once you have set of papers available to put them together and come out with drawbacks and conclusions is something which is very important. And that is the thing which are decides in case of intake project or b-tech project or PAD work everywhere that helps in what we call as the problem definition. So, unless you have the prior information prior what kind of thing known one is not in position to decide what exactly should be done now because you have been given a problem within that what is to be done and what is not to be done nothing of that kind is known. So, the evaluation also has to be on those lines as such you cannot expect that the conclusions are drawn. So, whether the conclusions are correct or not that can be your opinion the student may have different opinion. So, chance also has to be given to the student to explain what he feels about this thing. One of the things which I feel about this particular part out here as such seminars specifically at times we observe that the student does not get a chance to explain the thing in a proper way. You ask one question is not in position to answer it suddenly the other person may switch out to another question. The students are not that right as such they are students they are going through that process where they can think and they are thinking process speed of thinking is increasing day by day, but it has not reached the level what you expect from them. And that is going to happen in the beginning once they appear for 3, 4 seminars or 5 hour examinations or thing like that we will find the change in the attitude the change in the way they answer the questions and things. So, what we are thinking out here is when we are looking at this seminars specifically they need to be given some time to think maybe half a minute to think and then answer and in fact we have a practice out here when we tell the question we ask or rather tell the student do not try to answer it fast. Think for a moment you are not going to get a chance to change your answer, but before answering you are going to get a few seconds as such make use of them do not start answering before you complete the question before the examiner completes the questions they anticipate certainly everyone anticipates because that anticipation is also expected and that also has to be good as such from a 10 8th point of view, but if you anticipate it and before the question is completed if you try to answer there more than 50 percent chances that the answers are wrong as such. So, the student have not heard the question fully and he has started answering he does not know where the question is going to end. So, such things also need to be taken into account by faculty the teachers out here and that has to be somewhere or the other told to students that this is going to be your arrangement which is going to be there at the time of examination you have to do it in this fashion you have to do it in there. So, some such things have to be coming coming to a new aspect about the projects as such this is again a big difference between the seminars and projects. Seminars as normally we look at from the B Tech seminars or M Tech seminars what we expect is is just picking up the information which is available as such there is no personal contribution to that particular part. So, when it comes to project we expect something is being done by the candidate also it is not that he collects the information and puts it in certain order gives you a proper confusion and there the matter in it. So, that becomes only the first part or literature review chapter as we normally put it in the final form in the M Tech report or something. At the end of it he is expected to come out with certain lacuna in the literature that this particular thing is not explained properly or this needs some support which is which has to be in the experimental form or some analytical expressions have to be checked because they are not given in details something or the other will have to be done out there as such. So, literature survey is not the only thing when we think of projects as such. But projects are again not examined in one lot as such in the sense or projects there may not be only at the end of the project examination examination may be there in two or three stages here we have it even for B Tech project we normally have two stage examination and so certain part he comes up with he gives you a clear picture as to what he is going to do in the next phase and next phase has to be matching with what was told that he will be doing at the end of the first stage itself. So, that is again something one has to look at. Presentation of a research paper. So, many people nowadays you are also getting more chances to attend the conferences as well as the present papers in the conferences and then if you look at it look at yourself as an examiner for that paper then the questions will come up more as such more questions will click then thinking that he is presenting something and I am just listening to him as such. If you have that attitude and that needs to be there for most of the teachers that has to be there as such in most cases it is there, but sometimes it is not vibrant as such. So, that has to be brought in and one has to look at it and ask the questions there are the responses are in a different way. The person who is presenting the paper everyone is looking at him as an expert and you are asking a question to an expert as such so to say. So, whatever you tell you have to accept it no it is not that if you have form and if you are having the talk of reasoning a lot of discussion takes place in the conferences also and people do accept that yes they have made some mistake in the paper and people are of that type that they do accept their mistakes as such. But the questions have to be put up my idea in putting this research paper out here is when you are putting the question to a research paper presenter as such you have to be at certain level there is no doubt that you will be first year student is not going to ask the proper question maybe your question may turn out to be wrong altogether may not be pertaining to that particular part also, but at least those things will become clear. But when you have understood a specific part certainly the question should be put up and if any explanation is possible in that short time period one should try to extract that as such. The paper part and research proposal part these are not the same thing as such these are totally two different aspects what I am talking about a research proposal is now nowadays I am hearing that World Bank has given a good amount of grant to different colleges to government and tech whip and things of that kind you are buying a lot of equivalent and things of that kind to tech whip points and so on. So, there they are giving it only for lab set of SS there are other agencies like DST, ICT who are also giving you funding for supporting different projects. So, when it goes in the form of a research proposal no one else is going to examine for you finally, the experts the proposals will go to some experts they will put their comments, but while writing this proposal we have to become our own examiners at that stages and what are the things which can be asked how I explain the things properly at that stage or not think of that kind how to be taken into account otherwise a proposal may not turn out to be a good proposal. The topic of the actual work content is not what I am talking once you are putting something in the proper fashion then only it will be looked at in the proper fashion and enough weightage will be given to that SS. Lastly presentation of an idea for a new patent I am again not talking as a applicant for the patent application SS I am looking at you people as examiners for patents and the roles are totally different. The person who is applicant is going to give you certain details and may still like to hold back certain things SS may not tell you off, but when you are a research the patent examiner SS that and the questions which should come you are not going to ask these questions to anyone you are the one to set the questions for yourself and you are the one who is going to answer them and also we then and finally, put that evaluation for that patent that it should be accepted or not accepted kind of thing that is yes no type like we have here we have earlier also and now also we do have this kind of things where NCC course where social science and those certain parts are out there SS. So, there are certain parts which are only pass or not pass. So, there is no reasoning given out there SS and that is a requirement that if you are not completed NCC for 2 years you are not eligible to continue further SS. So, one has to do that, but how those things are graded exactly everything cannot be put at one particular level SS all different courses or different types as I have put right from quizzes going right to a new patent idea or some such thing has to be looked at in a different way. Let us come to the setting of questions and question paper I am putting it as a slash out there because I want to differentiate between the two things as such a question and question paper the two are not the same as such. As soon as I think of our exam the first thing which has to come to my mind is the course content which has to be planned for a particular test. Now as I was introduced my area is refugiation, air conditioning and cryogenics and a few examples little bit later may be coming from refugiation side in simple ones, but those very properly understood I will have to look at it little bit later as such. But when I am trying to fix the exam schedule and things of that kind right from that time I must have in my mind what is the course content which I am going to put for this particular test as such the test under consideration as such. And whether I have informed the students that there is going to be the part which is going to be evaluated as such their emphasis has to be only on that particular part and they should not read the whole thing what has been taught up to that date or something. At times we say even this that tomorrow morning is the test today's part is included. In that case it is included but you have to plan the thing we are not going to say the question paper after today's lecture or some such thing. You are going to have that planning in mind and accordingly you are going to teach them. You have to also keep in mind your teaching should not get affected because you had said the test paper before and as such. That is something which at times happens because you do not have time Friday afternoon last lecture and Monday first lecture is the test you are not going to have the copymaking machine, Z-Walks machine available or something and so you have to keep everything ready on Friday because Monday morning you are not going to have time even for doing that as such. And you are conducting something which is also included in the test. Is it a good practice or bad? That is something different but if you have included that you have to ensure that your test question should not affect the teaching of that particular small part of the course as such. That is something important as such. So the information has to be known to the students as to what exactly is going to be the portion which they have to cover for this particular test. And as I said the thinking or planning process also has to start simultaneously in all right. In what way I am going to set the question paper. What are there are some other aspects also? There are some other aspects also some of which these two I should know before hand and that is the time available. Is it going to be half an hour or 20 minutes quiz or is it going to be one hour test or what exactly it is going to be? We even look at this part as well. The answer paper which you are going to give should it be 12 pages or 8 pages or 16 pages these are normally the numbers which we have out here as similar thing may be available in all other companies. Am I going to give a 16 paper so 16 page paper exam which is going to be of 20 minutes is it really worth doing it or should I restrict myself to a 4 page supplement kind of paper for one hour test? There is something simultaneously these things also happen knowing or unknowingly these things are going to work within our mind as such. But we have to be clear about it because we are not going to buy the paper and put it we are going to collect it from maybe the office of the department or some such thing and unless we give some prior intimation to them they may not be in position to provide you what exactly you need out there as such. The last line as I have put out here separates that the supplements will be provided or not and also in one of the things as such which one can plan and one should tell this thing before last way you cannot tell the student that no you are not going to get supplement because I have not bought any that kind of answer is not going to work out well it is going to put the students off and you are also internally you are also going to be disturbed that you did not do the right thing at that very moment as such. So, but the student should know that this does not mean that they should write or scribble it in very fine handwriting in very small size or some such thing you have to give them enough space maybe sometimes we said the papers in this fashion that you write a question leave some space the space which you feel appropriate for question leave only that much space they will have to restrict that space and then put a note write in the beginning that you are not going to get any supplement you have to write answers within the spaces given out there that kind of thing also has to be thought of and indicated as such. Coming to these are the more important steps as such what type of questions am I going to put as such in a test is it going to be two questions two main questions and that is it or one main questions main question and the other ones can be in smaller parts of bits as such can these be all one kind of questions some calculations are involved in it all such things have to be thought of the portion on which the test is being conducted is the one which is going to give us some answers out of this like if I am going to have incident test examination only at most half the course may be there for the test as such based on that maybe I can think of putting two sort of bigger questions and one question which also is equally weighted as such but maybe in smaller parts maybe you are containing objective type of things as such as to think what type of questions this again has to be looked at in additional ways as such especially for engineering as I said we need to look at it in a slightly different way we have different approaches for solving a particular problem a few terms I am using from the earlier lecture as such because those were used there so I am aware that that particular lady also had used those particular terms here the graphs available as such charts available, tables available nomograms available drawings available ok so based on what you are teaching which particular course you are conducting let me give you a brief idea out here as such when I put a small question on a basic refrigeration cycle I have the refrigerant properties which are available in the form of tamarind properties of property tables as such there is a chart based on which again I can get each and everything out there as such there may be equations which are fitted to those property qualities as such there may be a computer program which is already available and made available to the students and there will be additional software the inside of that I also might not be knowing ok so all such things are there as such now when I am setting up a question paper and only two questions to be given exactly this one should do I need to think about it before setting up questions if I am asking them to use the property tables and do all the calculations I know that it is going to take more time if I allow them to use the chart instead they have to know the chart with but the time required is not going to be large because once they know how exactly they are going to get to various different points they will be able to pick up the property values from there and use it third thing equations types of equations if we if I am going to give them say 5 degree equation for enthalpy value or any pressure value as function of temperature or vice versa it is going to take long time to come up with one value as such do I know the whole thing to get whatever you want to solve it but then the basis of reference level is changing I must evaluate all the students with some ground level or reference level as such I cannot give them all different options if I am giving them options if the students have over time a chart I must be in position to provide a chart at that moment after that I can shout at him but at that moment I must be prepared with additional charts and most provides steam tables charts all such things I must have a few of them and I conduct a test for 60 or 80 students at a time at least 3-4 of them more than that maybe you cannot do it for everyone otherwise you have to provide the chart along with the question so it is not that we need to do it for everyone but we need to take care of these aspects as well as such and when I am doing it I need to now decide that I should allow the student to use only the charts or only the tables or only the nomograms or only the equations and based on that I must give a common test to everyone then only my evaluation is going to be proper the assessment of the things is going to be proper they give steps they are going to be steps involved for each problem I say any numerical or some such thing is not going to be a single step procedure it is going to have large number of steps at times only few major steps and some values have to be looked at from the chart or tables or some such thing do I put equal marks for each one of them or how exactly do I handle that situation should they sub question wise break up be provided or not there is something which is very typical an idea and analysis of the composition cycle or particular system out there I keep on asking what is the efficiency what is the working force what is the heat trajectory what is the composition I know that I have split the main question into 10 different small sections as such and I may put them in order or may not put them in order because when you are starting the solution you know what is the first parameter to be calculated do I put it as a b c d or do I put a z b c f z whatever mix of them and put it and make it little bit more complicated or should I put them in a very specific order the way I will be solving the question should I put it exactly in the same order and give them idea that if you can do this the next thing is going to be possible if you are not able to do this next thing most likely is not going to be possible to calculate or some such thing so this involve the evaluation part and whether we should give the marks for each one of them separately or should I put 10 marks totally 10 parts 10 marks but some of them may be having only half of mark and not one mark each these things have to be known to the students also on our side we try to do it but that is not enough because that will cause creeps from the students after the evaluation the students will come back to you add on 5 parts correct but I have not been given 5 marks out of 10 I have been given only 3 and then you have to tell them these 2 had only half mark these 4 had only quarter marks together that will not be a good practice so they should at least know that each book of question may not have the equal weightages at least that much has to be known to the students also for the way we have all this it is to see whether the expected output really comes from the students you have told you have taught them certain portion you have given them some ideas how to handle the problems you have said the question paper properly keeping all the other aspects in mind and finally after evaluation you need to know whether the students are doing well whatever your ideas were done and worked out in practice or not or you have taught a number of things and they have been stuck at the first step and none of them is able to move further or something so that is something they need to know as we also need to know and so the evaluation process also has to be kept in mind and we have to also keep in mind that we have to give the feedback to the students once we finish this we are going to the specific areas in which we are interested as such this was always was basically sort of introductory aspect as such which I had in mind unless I say something about this example or the things we will not be able to look at it in little bit more detail so let us look at the four different disciplines I have mentioned out here they are not necessarily only four but when you move I have tried to touch upon only these four of them as such so what are these creative arts creative design, medical science architecture and our part is already kept out here as such at the top so that is not part of these different things we have put these very specifically out here we will become more and more clear as we look at them one by one arts and design arts and design the different forms of arts are not included here the music or dance or that kind of categories out here but something which can be seen in the form of hard thing as such like we say hard copy soft copy I should have something hard copy kind of thing only then I can get it evaluated by three different persons and look at whether I can get the same assessment for all of them or something different comes in as such and so I start with the first part as such look at any painting I am not a real appreciator of these things I really am unable to appreciate certain things as such and I am telling you all that but I have given some thinking to this part as well how exactly the things should happen as such when it comes to mind of the painter or artist he has to think about the thing everyone wants to put his ideas and in different ways as we say dance, drama, dance, drama and then painting and models and sculptures all these are the avenues through which one can put himself open before others as such so theory is something once he decides on the thing right now there are many things many cartoons other things also you will get seen around as such lot of discussion is taking place about the nuclear treaty and things of that kind simultaneously the Ganesh festival was there the cricket match also was there on the same research and day and all of them are coming in and two days back I saw something in the times of India which tried to combine all these three in one part as such to really make out what exactly is that picture showing as such but let me put it that the artist has something in his mind so he looks at the theme decides on the theme he has to put it in a very proper size of paper or maybe canhass as canhass size as we normally term it in the terms of our engineering drawing part as such the different color combinations schemes he has to use all these things he is doing it and later on if I am shown that I am most probably if it is a very good painting I am most probably not going to like it as such because that is not fitting in my requirements as such why this happens I have come to that also little bit later as such come to another artist as such which we make as sculptures or models as such models when we are looking at models in the sense of engineering more systems models or things that kind I am talking of here there are certain aspects which are the person thinks as such what is the material I should be using should it be scale model or the like Ganpati a big tummy and a small ear or some small eyes or should it be looking neat proportionate kind of thing should it be like a scale drawing as we say should it be something on that line in that case which can be looked at by anyone and one can get a fair idea as to what the person is trying to do only thing is it is a model and so it is not going to be always to the sizes not one is to one scale as we call it not every time the model has to be small not every time the model has to be small model can be bigger than the actual it as well so things of that kind and finally this specific purpose to be demonstrated so every time it may not be an art part as such it may be something engineering part which is to be demonstrated to use of model or something and we are all aware that while teaching engineering drawing or some such thing we always at least our teachers used to carry and I did it in the first in mechanical department here the system is not much different the junior person goes through that so I have also gone through that part as such and we used to take the cut sections of the cone and things of that kind so do not models nothing is specific about them you have seen it at a number of times but when you are trying to explain the things as in the last lecture I heard the term touch and feel yes that is something which gives you after seeing the things what exactly is the work going on and things of that kind so those are also some of the things which has to be looked at sculptures again some thematic idea are there I saw at IPC Lago trader where we were conducting some course a nice stone carved into a shape of fish at the top of that globe kind of thing fixed nothing is in parts of the integral object I like that very much you do not know what exactly gave me that decision that I am liking it as such what I am coming to is when you are looking at these creative arts and designs everyone's perception is different it need not match with immediate next person as such and with that are you going to like it or not we have so many color combination schemes talking about yesterday I learned that when presenting a lecture out here one should have a darkish color shirt otherwise the contrast and other things will not match that was not my requirement but I agreed to that and tried to do that part as such so some of these things are requirement based some of these things are choice based had I been given an option whether to go for a half shirt this is a formal part I would have come in full sluice shirt that is fine but at some other place I would have gone for something and so all these things liking something with physique it is at that moment it is not going to be again a fixed idea, fixed notion all the time today something which I am liking I may not like it after 10 days I have not seen anything as a competitor for that part my thinking may be on different lines and I may not appreciate what I appreciated in the earlier lessons these are the things which happen with these creative arts and design the evaluators of these have to be very careful and they have to ensure that their thought processes do not change with time like mine can change evaluators their thought process should not change and they must take into account certain specific things coming to another discipline as such medical science it is very different than us and it is a most of the time the information is very specific as such what exactly happened to a patient finally patient is the god for the doctor as such he is the person who is going to make the payments and otherwise the doctor has again the person whom he has to cure whether it is with good moral values or good finance part other way he is the person whom he has to cure as such and the analysis is based on the specific current conditions as such at that time what exactly are the conditions the generalization is the one which follows as such based on this that if this happens there is normally the output and so this should be the conclusion that kind of generalization occurs and once the generalization occurs one again comes back to specific cases as such so it looks for certain specific things as I tried to indicate out here the blood test, X-rays, CAT scans all these terms we are all aware of if given I may not be able to make out anything from a given X-ray maybe that may be belonging to my own bone I may not be able to make out anything from that you need that background information and all that but what is the doctor doing at that time he is leaving either the confirmation or the deletion one of these two processes are there in his mind at that time as such if he gets something specific he is either going to confirm if he doesn't read that he cannot say that that is still not there he may have to go for additional test like talking about these aspects as such presently there is a dengue thing which is going on as such and when I was talking to an environmentalist recently there is an asuleka from IIT Bombay itself you see these mosquitoes are very typical I said what is the difference between different mosquitoes all of them can cause malaria and they told that this particular category grows in clean environment only and when the idea till that time was mosquitoes grow only in dirty environment if something is dirty where the mosquitoes grow but do that different type of mosquitoes the present dengue thing which is there in the newspapers pertains to the clean areas where these mosquitoes are so solutions are going to depend on the options which you are going to have I am not aware of that so I am going to look at it as a solution ensure that no more mosquitoes are around or something but these are getting generated in the clean area itself now what do I do things are not so simple as such so we will have to look at that particular so what I am trying to before you out here is medical science is something which is very case specific they look at one particular case and try to analyze it to the fullest extent as such as we said third layer they want to do that they want to do the analysis and then come out with the solution as well it is not only the analysis that is enough they have to give you the solution to that as such coming to our discipline the engineering discipline as such we normally do not agree that this is similar to any other discipline and that is the reason I have tried to put from my side what are the differences they may not be all correct as such but some of the things which I thought for given problem any specific problem we may have different methods as such as I indicated a few minutes back I can go for solution to chart method, equation method the tables method simple example as such but I can have different solutions or different methods or possible as such but what I expect is the solution should finally turn out to be the same if I am getting 10 different solutions for an engineering problem engineering is wrong somewhere and so that gives us something more specific compared to the other disciplines which I talked about medical discipline creative arts and design and things of that kind the two examples may give the equal marks for two different models or things of that kind here two different answer sheets if the answer is not the same they are not going to get equal marks if they follow exactly the same steps and they are getting different answers they are certainly not going to get equal marks if who gets what the marks may turn out to be equal only that state wise marking comes in otherwise the things are not going to be there but what I am looking at is the solution has to be unique but under the same set of constraints and that means I must provide some additional constraints in order to ensure that the answer remains the same I cannot say that A plus B equal to something and B value are not getting A value are not getting and now you find out A and B there can be multiple solutions in that case but then some constraint has to be put in so one has to look at that particular aspect as well just now as I said that we present a unique solution or unique or given problem such where this happens is most of the problems are related to analysis or design of some system or subsystem and these are being considered under some constraints as said again when we are looking at these aspects as such our main aim all the time is functionality may be of a very small subsystem or a small component of subsystem but functionality is already at the back of our mind we may not say it openly all the time or we will not advertise that we talk about functionality all the time as such but the creative arts part they are the models which we have and the engineering models we have there is a difference in this form as such here we are looking at something specific being expected from each and every object which is created whether it is a form of model or a small component or a small screw or threads threaded portion as such each one of them gives us some functionality and so the criteria for rejection or acceptance is the functionality whether it works or it will not work theoretically or practically again that is an additional feature but theoretically if you are putting some design whether it is acceptable if you are looking at an assembly of components as such that assembly seems to be impossible we are showing something a sphere inside a sphere ok and you are saying that the whole thing is inner sphere also is an integral part outer sphere also is an integral part how am I going to put that inner sphere inside as such not going to be a feasible solution so something feasible and not feasible that again our interest is always towards these things like if I look at the electrical components one small part as such you are talking now a day about the superconducting materials as such if you say that I am going to heat the material to 400 Kelvin I am going to use at 300 K and I should be getting superconductivity no one is going to expect that it will work at any time as such because above I am going to do things or not be noticed as it to work as superconducting maybe at that I am going to heat it up and then there I am going to get the material converted to a superconducting material no one is going to accept that so certain things are totally being considered as out of scope to get started in general the second aspect which we have for the engineering part as such and here there is a small difference of opinions as such but this is what normally happens as such the aesthetics of the product we normally do not give much weightage as such not deal the system functions in the first instance whereas we are another department out here industrial design centre the thing will be yes functionality is your problem but how it will look good or how it will be more effective more acceptable to a customer consumer that is our look out as such so look outs are different so one has to accept these part as such and so one has to see that mainly when we look at it as engineering problems I think we look at the product functionality aesthetics and other thing are not the ones which you are looking at so what are going to be our acceptance criteria in general for any particular part output of the system if I am going to design a system it is going to be the output that is the quantum output as such efficiency of the system and then I start looking at more things as such trying to go for more details availability criteria if I am going to make something out of gold and cost limit is there I am not going to be in position to do that as such so the cost criteria comes in the availability and cost in general they get related but not always they do not get always related to each other and cost may become a much lower criteria than the availability as such just to give an example helium for example is available in our country as such but it is so important where do you get helium as such only two places one is Russia and the other is America you know other big reserve which is available how is it available it is coming with the oil and natural gas so many events we have but it does not turn out to be available in our gas now it is something specific we cannot help it something is naturally occurring you are not getting part of it not the share of it neither the area nor the population proportion wise can do much about it so what is the effect it is available but at much higher cost as such we have to go by that the size and mass of the system are important no system one would like to have bulky system for no application as such but certain dimensions minimum dimensions minimum mass of the system is going to be there as such once all these things are taken care then finally comes the reliability part today the system is working working nicely can I really consider it as reliable will the power supply be there session is over or I have to wind up and get to another methodology of teaching as was being discussed in the morning as such some such things one has to start looking at and how be these are the criteria and finally in the life of the system no system component is going to have infinite life as such it may cost our life limit as such but it is not going to copy infinitely like this particular light or the bulb which is being used out there as a life of about 4000 hours 4000 hours they have already used it they better be safe and have another bulb ready with them to replace that so all these parameters one goes for that and so when we try to compare the disciplines can I say that engineering practices are better than in other disciplines not me I will not like to dare into that kind of argument as such the approach and criteria for each discipline is different and so we cannot say that we are doing it like this you also do it like that no one can believe others to do that but we have to understand that is engineering discipline is different than others and so we have to have own criteria of testing evaluation grading conducting exams all these parameters to be taken into account as something different than what is applicable to a medical or the artistic approaches out there as such so the conclusion for this discussion is basically