 The Wachungs are the rock formations in New Jersey, right? That route 280, right? Route 280 wasn't built around the Wachungs. Route 280 went through the Wachungs. Right? When you're carving a new path, that's what I feel like my experience has been, like the Wachungs, right? Your first it's explosive. You have to blast through that rock, and then you have to lay a foundation, and then you have to build a road, and then you watch as civilization travels on that road. Boom! What's up everyone? Welcome to Simulation. I'm your host Alan Sakyan. We are on site at Studio One at Ease's Venice campus. We are going to be talking about all things cannabis, all things health and wellness, all things on-demand cannabis, and much more. I'm super excited, blessed, honored to have Jason Pinsky joining us on the show. What's up brother? Greetings. Thank you for coming on. I really appreciate it. Super excited to talk about all of this. For those that don't know, Jason Pinsky's background. He's had 25 years in cannabis tech, food, and media. He's cannabis producer for Vice Land's Bong Appetit, which has went through 40 episodes in three seasons. He's the first credited cannabis producer on IMDb. He's a king of mainstream marijuana, awarded by Cannabis Business Awards. And he's the chief cannabis evangelist here at Ease, where one of his focuses is creating content that is educational, inspirational, and breeds enthusiasm for the team and outward. Alright, I love starting with a big history synthesis on reality. We find ourselves here as stewards of earth after a long period of evolution. We are going through a period of hockey stick in our population growth, hockey stick in exponential technology. We have now unleashed a lot of Mother Earth's resources in terms of cannabis and other plant medicines. I would like to know, what is your synthesis about the current state of humanity? I believe we are at a point in time where we are expanding our consciousness as a society, as humanity collectively. And cannabis is a THC in the plant medicine that comes from Gaia, right? Mother Earth is speaking through us at this point. And what it's allowing is it's allowing for us to get access to a core nutrient that is core to maintaining homeostasis within our bodies, which is keeping our body in our physical space in balance. Are you familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs? So if the foundation is triangular shaped in nature, like Maslow's triangle, you've got to wake up and make your bed every morning, man. You've got to have your, if you're moving toward not only a higher consciousness, but also self-actualization. It starts with your core and your environment. Make your bed, clean your office. Start with your physical space being in order. And our physical space in this time is our vessel, our body. And cannabis is the essential nutrient that allows us to keep our vessel in optimum health by keeping the chemical signaling and chemical balance within our bodies, right? So I believe that the work that we're doing today with plant medicines that are endogenous, right, chemical compounds in the plant exist endogenously in our bodies, right? The reason I refer to it as a supplement or a nutrient is because we as a civilization are kind of going through what's referred to as an endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome. So if you think about the intention of usage in the last century, all right, in our lifetimes and in our parents and grandparents' lifetime, it is different than the intention and usage going back to the beginning of civilization, right? Cannabis is, unlike other plant medicines that have a hallucinogenic effect, cannabis has an entheogenic effect, right? The word entheogen, right? And it's interesting in the open. We talked about educating and inspiring to breed enthusiasm. And enthusiasm comes from the root of that word, of a plant that is an entheogen, which doesn't just make you see something, but it really inspires and elicits like a, you know, you could call it a god-like experience, but it's not necessarily that you have to believe in God, right? What it has done for me is it has started me on a path to be open-minded toward, to be quantum in my thinking, to be open-minded toward any and every possibility in terms of outcome and not necessarily be attached. And cannabis is, in my opinion, the first step in terms of us getting our bodies in balance and preparing for the next step. You know, we see the cannabis movement and we see the cannabis industry following that movement. And then coming is like this whole secondary movement of other plant medicines that also contain things in the plant that are endogenous, that exist within our bodies already. So that's the area of focus that I'm interested in, is how these plants act as a nutrient end or a supplement. And the order in which, right, we do that. And, you know, it's important to really kind of look at this cannabis movement as a step. Yeah, it's a gateway to an expanded consciousness. That's the gateway drug. Okay, so I like how you took us to that our awareness, we are awakening through some of Mother Earth's plant medicines. And we are hopefully moving towards a unity here. We came from evolution all with the plants and animals as one. And we need to awaken to that oneness to best prosper collectively moving forward. So it took a while for all of what we see to be happening with the not only the incredible access to ubiquity and food and water and shelter and electricity, education, the internet, health care, but especially cannabis. Kids like your son don't necessarily see the lineage of the last 50 or 60 years that blood, sweat, tears, deaths, long periods of time fighting for cannabis to be able to reactivate people. So tell us about what that journey has been 25 years for you. Tell us about what this journey has been like for those that may not necessarily that just go to the dispenser and they're like, great, here's some cannabis, but they don't know this history. My history of cannabis was like any young man. I recently discovered that I'm 99.8% full Jew, Ashkenazi Jew on 23. I gave away my DNA happily. And yeah, it's interesting, right? Because at some point, right, I've given up on my privacy in exchange for technology, which is changing slowly because we will be decentralizing these data silos and then making it easier for people to get paid for their data as a potentially universal base skin. I've just accepted the convenience. And I've also been confident and integrous in my actions. And over the last several years, as I've kind of emerged as a public figure in this space. And like maybe when I set my my Facebook to public posts, you know, at some point, you have to just like, you know, be integrous with your actions. And then all of a sudden, certainly privacy has a huge value. But when you're building a brand around yourself or on your lifestyle and kind of putting a lot of your stuff out there, and granted, it's edited and, you know, curated, right? But on the same token, like I understand the value of all the technology, and I'd rather be have access to the technology in and and versus my other friends who are like, I want my privacy. You and then they and then they won't go on social media and they won't like to live in 2019. And with further steps in encryption, and new protocols that enable the fluid data flows to occur, I think we'll pass it you will have a very interesting cannabis history. So you know, tell what is it? Well, like any rite of passage, Pinsky, and we can call, you know, Jason by his last name, Pinsky is a great last name goes by for sure. So Pinsky has a cool background where he you had an experience where you yourself had a serious surgical serious spinal injury and surgery that then took you into opioids use for a long period of time. And the cannabis helped you taper off of that. Yeah, let's just say that my intention of using cannabis came from, you know, the allure of seeing being a child of the 70s and seeing the music and hippie culture in the 60s. And, you know, like, the intention was to try to get high. Right. Like seeing that in the media and seeing how the plant was portrayed. And I was like, cool. And then, you know, coming through that experience all through high school and college. You know, I didn't think of cannabis as a medical product until, you know, great 20 years into my experience with the plant. I mean, you know, the intention had always been to really get high. As a matter of fact, living in New York, and hearing the term medical marijuana, and thinking about what was happening in California, you know, to me that was like, Oh, yeah, anyone could go to Venice to the boardwalk and get a script and for a headache. And, you know, just didn't really actually seem real to me. And then I found myself injuring my spine and getting prescribed OxyContin for close to 14 years. It was 12 years that I was on it. Then I had a second injury on a motorcycle, which caused me to go in for surgery a second time. And now when you are opiate dependent for over a decade, and then you need another surgery, you have to really carefully balance the anesthesia to put you down the amount of medication that you need post surgically, it really becomes like a specialized case and just to put it into perspective, when I had my injury in September of 2000 was when I had my surgery. I wound up after 11 years on close to 12 to 1500 milligrams a day every 24 hours of OxyContin. This is what we refer to as a lethal dose. Okay, if someone was to take 1000 milligrams of OxyContin cold, you would die. I mean, your heart, you're sorry, you would stop breathing. What happens is it's your opiate receptor. Your opiate receptor exists in your brain stem in your brain. And it can get, you know, like so hit so hard that your core functionality like breathing, right, is is impacted a lot of people who you see dying from an opiate overdose is because their respiratory system slows down to the point, and they pass out and their body forgets to breathe. And this is the huge difference. And what I started to learn after my second surgery, and after I actually had some downtime, right, to to start studying the endocannabinoid system. And I was able to really kind of look at, wow, you know, Washington and Colorado had passed their legislation in 2012. And this was right at the time where I had my second surgery, right at the time where after 20 years in business, I was kind of forced to be on the on the disabled list, I had to heal a leg injury, I was home for six months. And this is within the timeframe that cannabis legislation was advancing in Colorado and Washington. And I had an opportunity to really kind of see that there were other people. And now this is after YouTube and started to come out, you can't really, you know, oaks to damn university, like, you know, all of these different resources for cannabis education did not exist. Right. So I got a huge education, based on some anecdotal stories, and some were physicians, PhDs and, and doctors and, you know, scientists, chemists, people that were really starting to look at the plant from a more analytical approach, and starting to really the discovery of the endocannabinoid system. And I started to kind of look at medical cannabis from a different perspective, in terms of like, how could this help me, right? Get off of opiates after, you know, 11 or 12 years. So that was my my journey was like starting out from a intentional place of trying to maybe get higher trying to escape. And then using my background in technology as a computer scientist to become almost like a cannabis, right, scientist. And, and my knowledge of biology and chemistry wasn't traditional. My knowledge of biology and chemistry was as it related to cannabis, chemistry and the compounds that the plant was made of, and then within our bodies, how those chemicals interfaced with our bodies and taking us into my starting to learn about the endocannabinoid system. And the difference between like an opiate receptor and a cannabinoid receptor, right, the opiate receptors are in your brainstem, right, the cannabinoid receptors are everywhere else in your brain, not in your brainstem. So no matter how high you get on the weed, no matter how much of it you ingest, you're never going to overdose, you're never going to die, you're never going to stop breathing, because it just doesn't impact the body in the same way. And really starting to understand that the chemicals in the plant, right, phyto cannabinoids, as we've further classified them, right, supplement the endocannabinoids in our bodies. And this whole concept of the endocannabinoid system, and these compounds and the receptors, and then what they're, what are they there for? Well, they're there to create chemical balance and homeostasis, right, Walgreens shout out, hey, right, Walgreens didn't exist back in the beginning of time, right? We were put on this earth with the best pharmacy on the corner in us. And then it's these nutrients and things that were designed to help us. And most of them were designed to come from plants, right? I mean, there's certainly the argument that humanity really like, you know, got supercharged when we started to eat, you know, red meat, and whatnot. And I do, I own a barbecue place in New York, you know what I mean? I'm no stranger to that. But in the last few years, as I've become active in the cannabis movement, it's really opened my eyes to, to plants and our connection with them. You two crucial things you brought up there within your story. It's so important to identify how many other people as well are experiencing severe, opiate addictions, and also veterans that are now we're running shout out to maps, helping run really important cannabis trials. This is a new way for us to, like you said, the intent setting intent, you mentioned this now many times, the intent to heal the intel intent to commune with earth and with each other. That is so precious and so important. We started talking about the medicinal benefits and the health and wellness now of so many people being augmented due to cannabis roaring. And we see it now across the world slowly emerging more and more countries more and more grows was just reading about tons of different countries in Africa now starting to really grow and prosper with cannabis. And I'm like, damn, nice. So tell us about your thoughts on a more abstract global level on cannabis coming in as a medicine and its impact. I don't I don't necessarily think it's a medicine. I make a country and supplement those were yes, I make a I make a correlation to to weed like water. We all know that we need to supplement our bodies with eight glasses of water every day to maintain optimal hydration. It's a well known fact. If we overdose on water, right, that could actually kill you. Watch the water too quickly. Alright, that can kill you. I think we need to look at weed in a similar way. I think we need to look at it as our bodies contain these endocannabinoids. All right, what's happening is, you have your neurotransmitters, right? And you've got synapses and they move from your pre synaptic to your post synaptic. They move in one direction, because that's from pre to post, like a one way street. Endocannabinoids are actually manufactured by the post synaptic and travel in reverse from post to pre. And from pre to post. So what you have is a bi directional communication pathway, the only one in the body. The science behind why the endocannabinoid system is kind of like the body's master thermostat. Right, is because it can send chemical signals in both ways. A really good example of that is inflammation. Right, in my case, as a chronic pain patient, I used cannabis as an anti inflammatory. In the case of the US government who ironically has a patent on cannabis as a neuro protectant for traumatic brain injury. It's used in an inflammatory capacity to protect as a neuro protectant. The body has the ability to use these tools. So when I think of it and describe it as a supplement, right, imagine humanity. If we were limited access to water. And if society at large was chronically dehydrated, how would that impact our health? Right, if we stopped thinking about the intention of cannabis for getting high, we start thinking about it as a nutrient and a supplement. And preventively, like your one a day should have low dose compounds that exist in this plant just like iron and potassium. All these different things that our body needs envisioning cannabis in this way is really interesting. It's a good analogy, this nutrient supplement and being dehydrated a bit across the world and then activating it. That's very cool. I like how you're bringing this up. Question interjecting is out of the 7.7 billion of us, how many do you believe need the nutrient? Because water, everyone needs. Okay, 7.7 billion of us. Okay, we are made of mostly water. We are all wired for weed. We've all got an endocannabinoid system, we all require this essential nutrient, all of us. So some of us may require maybe a milligram or two. I'm talking the lowest dose without the intention of being high with the intention of nutrient supplement. Correct. Interesting. Okay. And this is not just humans. This is vertebrates. And this goes back to the beginning of time to like sea squirts, right? The evidence of endocannabinoids and endocannabinoids receptors goes back to the beginning of life itself. That's what's up. Interesting. I wonder how many other scientists, first of all, I'd like to have a couple more interviews with endocannabinoid specific scientists of the system in the body. Two, I wonder how many scientists slash just people in general would slightly refute that all 7.7 billion need even a milligram or two per day. So interesting that that's that's a perspective. Yeah, I'm not a scientist. And I tend to regurgitate information that seems logical and makes sense to me. You should look up a gentleman named Dr. Bob Melamed. Okay, he's amazing. He was one of the first guys on YouTube that like I learned about this stuff from. He is he's got a few letters after his name. He's I believe he's a chemist or biologist or you know, he as you know, with your boy, he's your I'm already going to reach out tonight via email and hopefully tell Dr. Bob, Dr. Bob Melamed. Pinsky Pinsky says what's up the Pinsky says what's up. You could also reach out to Dr. Ethan Russo. Okay. And Russo is the one that coined this term I believe the clinical endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome. Very interesting. Endocannabinoid deficiency syndrome. That's so interesting for me to poke out with a scientific prod and just try and understand that better because I don't necessarily know how many scientists even know about this think about it as a deficient nutrient deficiency. Then people don't when out of the people that walk into dispensaries when I watch them when I talk to them. Most people aren't coming in for a nutrient deficiency. The intent is not that so I love the way that you're framing this is what I meant earlier talking about rewriting the narrative on cannabis to a global audience. Yes. Yes, so we let's okay let's jump into this because you are rewriting the cannabis narrative to a global audience and you're doing that with ease. Ease is doing it as facilitating the access to this nutrient and then with Bong Appetit you're rewriting the cannabis narrative to a global audience through media. So let's talk about let's talk about those two. Let's break them down. The intention on Bong Appetit was a cooking show that was cooking with cannabis. Right. We didn't know going in that we were going to create something that was going to rewrite the narrative on weed itself. And I think the formula for success on that again, which just kind of happened. We never set out with the intention of saying we need to do a show that's going to have all this amazing undertone that's going to make families connect from parents to children that's going to portray this in such a great light. We never knew the net result of what was going to come out of it until it happened. And when you're creating something from nothing, I mean, that's very often that that happens in creation. My role on the show as cannabis producer was behind the scenes, though there is one episode of me donning Pinsky's glasses in the the bathrobe in our pothead sleepover. Really funny. We all got together and watched like reefer madness and eight brownies. We were like the antithesis of like, we're not going to do a show that's cookies and brownies. That story has been told. You know, when I first sat down with the executive producers advice, I came in with a chemistry set full of cannabis stuff. And they're like, Pinsky, no way, man. Like, this is never going to translate. Like, we're not doing a science show. We're doing a food show. It's part of vice lands. Part of vice is munchies vertical. It's food focused. And and I think it was it was a little bold. But I was like, guys, look, you guys have an obligation advice, not to tell the same story. Yeah. How many people are cooking with weed butter? And you know, we have an opportunity to talk about like, all these new products, all these new methods of extraction, all this new product development, these textures, these finishes. And then when you take the plant and you refine it to the traditional hash that everyone knows the Lebanese and like what you can get in Amsterdam back in the 80s and 90s and still today, which is a primitive mechanical separation style. Okay, you further refine that into what we refer to as concentrates or extracts and then all the different textures and finishes, butters, rosins, dabs, shatter, you know, all these concentrated forms. Right. And then you further refine that into the oil that we see in vape pens. You further take that and distill it. And you take this like cannabis oil and you pull it apart. And then you just have all these isolated compounds, your THC is over here and your CBD is over here. But what you have is this multitude of fragrance compounds that are in the plant, the terps, the terpenes. Right. And that to me is really the the most interesting part. Right. For me, and that's what really translates to food. Because now what we can do is we can create a pantry, a palette, so to speak, of new ingredients. Right. What happens when Picasso gets like a whole new paint set. Right. This was the genesis of what we tried to capture on the show. We would not let these chefs in the pantry. And we would not choose chefs that were cannabis savvy. Right. We wanted iron chefs, master chefs. We wanted to capture that aha genesis moment. That's what's translating to the audience. When you at home, see someone having that experience of newness, discovery. These are the things that it takes to rewrite the narrative. Right. And then to be able to say to a chef, okay, this is just the THC. You could make your dish. You could use all your flavor profiles. THC isolate has no flavor or fragrance. So you could just add a little bit of the medicinal or the euphoric to your creation. Then we say, hey, this is our terpene section. All these different fragrances. They have no psychoactive effect. You could pair them with your food. This is our CBD area. This is no psychoactivity. You know, I mean, there's now a whole new thinking perspective, if you will, on how to use this plant. Okay. And the difference between fractioning it off and using it in all these, you know, these vape pens that you see on the market these days are distillate distilled THC with different flavor profiles, some that come from the plant and some that come from other flavor sources. Okay. And when you think about that and the intention that most people are using that for, which is to get high, right, you miss the opportunity for the most therapeutic impact. The best therapy from the plant comes from what we refer to as whole plant medicine. When you extract all the compounds from the plant and you ingest that, that's the type of plant medicine that is switching on the body's natural mechanism to take cells that are damaged and shut them off. Right. That process, you can check with your scientist friends. It's called apoptosis. Right. People used to use cannabis in a way that was like more of a reactionary. Right. Cancer, AIDS. Right. You're going to get a prescription for weed. It's going to help with your appetite and nausea. Why? Because smoking weed is a very primitive delivery. And whereas there's like a cannabis THC could be in its isolated form is 100% pure THC. When you're ingesting it via smoking it via joint 5%, 10%. Right. So this is what happened with me in my medical journey was the product development of these, taking it from the plant and making all these products that we started to use on Bong Appetite. Right. Because of the advancement in science, analytics, being able to break down the compounds in the plant and report on that. Now breeders are able to like breed up certain cannabinoids, breed down others. This was the road map for the hemp movement, the CBD movement. It was all because analytics were able to allow people to breed low THC cannabis, which qualifies as hemp under the farm bill. Newsflash. Okay. They're smoking weed. They're growing weed, man. Okay. That's the newsflash. But it qualifies as hemp because of the amount of THC that's in it. And most of those varieties are high in CBD. And we were able to breed like that because we had the testing and the analytics. Yes. Right. To be able to see what was in it. But really at the end of the day, the most therapeutic impact from the plant comes from all of the compounds working synergistically together. Okay. So a couple things. First, I love how you made the push for the media that you're producing with Bong Appetite to be more, at least a little bit more scientific. Because you have an obligation to communicate a new narrative, that new narrative being this whole plant as a supplement, as a nutrient. And I want to, and you also identified and articulated the nuance that we can now with the, again, we talked about that exponential technology hockey stick, we can break down cannabinoids to a new degree, to the nuance of terpenes, to the nuance of all the different cannabinoid profiles and play with food with that, which is super exciting. And see which properties are actually going to be best for our own health and wellness in use. Keep in mind that represented 10% of the show. Exactly. So this is the point and just to bring you full triangle, so to speak. Bong Appetite was a success because it was authentic to the core community who already had the legacy and who really wanted to see the advancement of the products, but it was palatable to a mainstream audience through food. So everyone eats food. So because we really put ourselves forward as a food focused show, that was the main ingredient, that was the main thing that translated to a global audience because everybody eats. Okay. The cannabis story, which was underlying, okay, was authentic because we were telling the story of the advancement in product development through science and whatnot. Yeah. Now that is, you know, you mentioned here, I want to just hear your thoughts on this before as we move into how you're doing similar work with ease on the whole plant as a nutrient supplement side of things. This has now been, this is talked about at New West Summit, this is talked about by Mara Gordon and so many other leaders that the whole plant is the medicine, is the supplement, the nutrient, teach us about that. Well, there's about 400 chemical compounds in the plant, right? Some of them are like the the plant material itself, right? But when you do an extraction, right, you're taking out all these cannabinoids and all these terpenes and they work in a synergistic function with one another. Rafael Machulum and the guy who did the CNN, Sanjay Gupta, right, they referred to it on weeds, right? Weed 1.0, weed 2.0, remember that stuff 2012-13? It was like, whoa, Sanjay Gupta, CNN is like, yeah, oh my god. You've heard of this concept called the entourage effect. Think of it like a rock band or think of it like a symphony. Interesting. Right? So like, you know, like, you know, THC is like the lead guitar man, it's like Garcia, right? He's out front, Fat Man's getting it, you know what I mean? But like, you're not going to be the Grateful Dead without like all of the dudes in a band. I like to refer to Cannabis as like, remember that old Cheech and Chong movie where they're actually driving a vehicle made of weed and the tailpipe catches on fire and the whole thing starts to, so if you think of weed like a car, right, a THC, right, is like the gas pedal, right? And then the terpenes are like your steering wheel and they work synergistically with one another, right? The terpenes essentially steer the direction of your high, okay? So these days Indica, Sativa, right, these notions are being debunked, right? Indica meaning the region of the plant that it was origin from India where there's a lot of sun and these plants grow short and stocky and Sativas usually stretch up to the sky and they're grown in the mountains where there's less, where the plant needs to get more gnarly and it just so happened that the shape of those plants and the terpene profiles that were associated with those plants, a Sativa would give you that up and Indica would give you that down. But now through analytics and lab testing and looking at these different varieties and then also looking at the terpene profiles, it turns out that it's these fragrance compounds in conjunction with the THC that are really steering the direction of your high. It's not the shape of the leaf of the plant that determines how it makes you feel. And then the other variable that's really interesting is us, okay? We are the variable. Our DNA, our physiology, I'll smoke some weed and it'll make me feel the same weed and it makes me feel different than you. Well, we're different. So now you've got groups that are like taking your DNA and starting to associate that. So your DNA and your body composition, you have other groups that are taking the DNA from the plant itself. How many versions of salad these are out there? So we are cloning plants, like that's acceptable. So we're cloning plants but still, now you might have the same genetics but then you've got different nutrients, you've got different sun, you've got different lighting variables, all these different things. So getting consistency in this is really difficult and there's two ways to do it. You can grow the plant and then try to extract the oil and the medicine from the plant and then come up with a product. That's when people are isolating and distillating and then taking all these things and trying to make their own formulations. Then you have other dudes that are like growing cannabinoids on like yeast. So when pharma comes into this, they're not going to be growing fields of weed and waiting three months for plants to mature and then extracting those and hoping they're able to isolate all these compounds. They're just going to start with, they're going to grow THC. And these things can already be done, they haven't been done in scale. As you see the transition into cannabis medicine and it's interesting because pharma will quite often try to take something in nature and synthesize it and own it and patent it and one compound at that. Cannabis working symbiotically, synergistically with all these compounds that are in the plant makes it a little harder to own that type of IP. When you mentioned the symphony, that was very interesting that that's where the whole plant nutrient kicks in as this whole symphony as an entourage and then you also brought us to the gas pedal and the steering wheel for the THC and the terpenes. I thought that was very interesting. These are good analogies to give people thinking in new ways and innovative ways around cannabis. Again, changing the narrative. It's very beautiful. The new involvement and the new innovations that come from pharma jumping in, potentially big alcohol and big tobacco may be jumping in, etc. What's going to spur us creative from Israel and from Africa and from different areas around the world will be also very interesting to Devin. All right, Pinsky, we got to hear about this. So you're also facilitating the nutrient access of cannabis through Ease on demand. Correct. Ease, well, first of all, let me just say this, that the underlying story that we're providing access to this plant medicine is not how we market, is not how cannabis brands market themselves, it's not how Ease markets ourselves. What is Ease? Ease is the marketplace that and the ecosystem, that's what we create. We create the software, the tools and through our partnerships with retailers and with product manufacturers, right, we have all of us collectively create this environment and with customers, right? So customers come on to a menu on their phone at Ease.com and they are shown products that are relevant to their location. So what we do is we work with cannabis licensed brands to bring their products onto our menu and into the marketplace and then we work with retailers and those retailers are the and the transactions happening between the customer and the retailer, it's just happening within our marketplace, marketplace ecosystem. So Ease essentially is facilitating on-demand cannabis and it's really a beautiful thing then. I mean like you know in some cases you can get a delivery of weed in six minutes, ten minutes, fifteen minutes, right? I mean there's really the fact that cannabis became the first product that you can get in that short of a time frame is awesome. It is, yeah. Damn, that is the future of being able to get on-demand products and especially when it's a nutrient you would like it in a short bit of time. Well look, I mean people aren't thinking of it like I'm preaching this gospel of it being a nutrient and that's like the foundation. It's like the Sophegio scale, right? So like the nutrient story is like 174 Hertz, man. It's like it's below your root chakra, okay? It's like the one that you don't even know about but like it's the foundation of everything else that's happening, right? The narrative in the story is not like we're providing essential nutrients to humanity, right? That's what's happening, right? Dennis Perron said it well. He said there's no such thing as recreational use. It's all medicinal use. No matter what your intention is you are actually helping your body by supplementing it with these compounds that exist in our bodies naturally. So ease, you know, we really are I'm the chief cannabis evangelist at ease but really at the end of the day I don't think of myself as an evangelist for ease, definitely an evangelist for cannabis. Ease, ease happens to be and that's what we want. We want to highlight cannabis. We want to highlight the brands and the products, right? And that's what's so interesting about this industry right now, right? What we're really talking about is broccoli, okay? Cannabis is and will continue to be and will be more obviously seen as a commodity. Cost of production will go down. Lettuce, dude, that's what this is. How cheap is a head of lettuce? There's no value to it. Practically. And if I look at my history in, right? But there is value to the brands, right? Like you're buying commodity products based on the trust that you have for the brand that is associated with that product. Look, I watched this happen in technology, man. I used to be in the tech business. I used to create software. Then we got into internet. Then we got into hosting and email and web and all these different things that I was able to charge hundreds of dollars a month, man. I used to charge 25 bucks a month per mailbox, right? Then all of a sudden Google came around and all these different brands came around and then it was like, we're gonna give away the technology for free, but you're gonna take our brand name and use it in your email address. And so what's happening in the cannabis industry right now is the cost of the weed is just continuing to go down and down and down. So creating your brand is actually of a high value pun intended, right? And that's what I think is happening here at Eaves and this is why I wanna be able to work with content, right? Bong Appetit was really special because it gave cannabis brands an opportunity to be featured on the world stage. What it lacked was the opportunity for the people watching to get access to those products. Add a click of a button that's supporting. Just even in general. That brand. Even in general. Man, Bong Appetit may have been Fantasy Island, right? It may have been The Bachelor. It was something that was happening in California in a moment of time where we were able to shoot that show, but like even the people watching, the broad scale of them were unable to get the products that they saw on the show, right? Because they were not necessarily available in the marketplace because they were, man, we were isolating. You're seeing these THC diamonds and crystals and that's not on retail shelves at the dispensary, right? So we had an opportunity to have great brand exposure on the show. We helped to build and create brands, okay? But what's happened is retail has gone from brick and mortar to mail order with the invention of the internet and now is moving toward on demand, right? Consumers want products on demand. Consumers want ride share on demand. Consumers want media on demand, okay? So Ease is filling that void. And really the reason why I think it's so interesting to be able to create content that features products and then move into a new phase where we are creating a menu that allows those products to get, right? How do we take that full triangle, right? So this is really my new role at Ease. It's creating content that features products that are on our menu that you can get on demand and you mentioned retail. I mean, this game changes retail because these products are weed today in the delivery environment. Vehicle is Ease but that lends itself toward other content featuring other products that people can get. So the fact, again, that cannabis becomes the product that really sets the stage for game changing and disrupting retail, right? Product placement is cool. Product placement is cool. Product placement is cool. But product placement fulfillment on demand is really cool. Really cool. That's the triangle with the fulfillment. I like that. And I wanna touch on this as important. You mentioned this as a broccoli, a lettuce. And I want to know more so on the intent side. You've mentioned intent several times. This is really important. The intent taken in as a nutrient or a supplement, as Perone said, is very holistic. It feels good. It feels right. At the same time, where there's a couple things here, there's a little bit of a... There's a little bit of like an escapist culture happening at times. This is so hard. There's so much work to do. Well, I'm just smoke, chill, order food, whatever. Then there's also what age do we allow this at? There's a big age question going on. Some scientists are urging us to postpone use until 21 and later, tell us about both the little on the escapism, little on the youth. I can speak to both greatly because I used OxyContin as a escape tool to escape a reality that I was not happy with. I used gaming as an escape tool to enter into multiple multiplayer MMO, massive multiplayer online role-playing games. I spent a decade deep in Azeroth. You know what that means if you know what that means. Azeroth is where World of Warcraft happens. So I know about escape, and I know about using weed, and I know about using OxyContin. I know about using virtual environments that are immersive to escape, totally. You know that if you take a plant, cannabis plant, and you eat it raw, right? Even just the leaves, not even the buds, right? You ever hear the cannabis juicing is like the new superfood? Cannabis leaves are the new kale, right? THC in its raw form is called THCA. It's non-psychoactive, doesn't get you high, amazing as a nutrient for the body, okay? So if the intention is to use cannabis cannabis that has been bred for high THC with the intention of getting high, and combustion is never a good idea, smoking, right? And so smoking weed is certainly a primitive way, but if you look at civilizations, going back to the beginning of time, that have been using cannabis in their food source. China, India, right? Look at the lost tribes, the lost tribe of Jews that became the Rastafarians. That is a star of David, dude, right? It's been a long-standing relationships between Jews and weed that goes back to the beginning of time, but even before that, Indians, Bongs, Bong, Charris, right? All these different preparations. China, right? China did not only use cannabis for bow strings and industrial applications. If you look up the first entheogenic use of a plant, in China, these dudes were buried with like weed as like the sacrament, right? It's like this holy plant, right? So when you think of civilizations, you ever see a Rastafarian Jamaican dude that's like 100 years old and that guy is built like an ox and still can run 100 miles? You know that dude has been eating weed his whole life, potentially through other sources, such as the cannabis leaf as kale could be consumed in salad type. It will be interesting to understand and better study the use for both intent for as a supplement nutrient rather than escape as well as for youth and approximately what the benefits are and if there are no signs. Keep in mind, okay? The difference between THCA and THC. THCA is non-psychoactive because it's THC with a carboxylic acid chain on the end of the molecule and because it's got that carboxylic acid chain, it can't penetrate the blood-brain barrier, it doesn't enter the bloodstream. Therefore, it's non-psychoactive. Okay, when the plant is growing, it's growing THCA. THC is a by-product that breaks, as THC breaks down, that carboxylic acid either breaks down through heat. At high heat, it will break down instantly. At room temperature, there's a curve and it breaks down slowly over time and that's what we call activating. Activating, interesting the use of THCA as a non-psychoactive. You eat the plant raw, you get all these amazing nutrient benefits from it, you don't get high. Non-psychoactive benefits, interesting, yeah. Good points, good points. Okay, I wanna talk about markets. This is really important. This is being quoted to be a multi-hundred billion dollar, if not trillion dollar industry over the next century and that the United States in many ways has taken a backseat to other powers like the United Kingdom, Israel, the Netherlands, Africa. This is Canada. And what companies going public? Companies going public on the Canadian Stock Exchange. Israel having the growing cannabis at the highest qualities at less than 15 bucks an ounce. 60 cents a gram. Commodity. Commodity, and so- Broccoli. Broccoli, so the United States here and California through all of its hard work of pushing the narrative forward and making it happen has again an obligation on a national scale to prioritize the legalization of cannabis for the nutritional, the supplemental purpose for humans, not only in the US but around the world and also to advance innovation of some of the most creative people in the world to be able to innovate and create within the cannabis industry publicly as it being legal. So I wanna hear your thoughts on the markets. I think that the intention behind lawmakers has nothing to do with the nutritional value of the plant. But one can see a direct effect of lawmakers helping legalize means more access. Absolutely, but the intention is money. You're seeing this happen on a broad scale where politicians who have careers against this plant are leaving office, joining companies, all of a sudden things are becoming legal. I watched this happen in New York State. New York State, you have five companies that got awarded licenses. You know the companies that got awarded licenses, built the New York State through a ran the electrical contracts on Staten Island. We're like, you know, like, come on, dude. Look at what's actually going on. So there's two sides to this story, right? There's the market and the movement, right? Ease operates on both sides of the plant. We have an entire company, we have an entire staff within our organization that is dealing with research, public policy, advancing legislation that has nothing to do with our core business. Social impact, right? All of these different things that represent the movement. So you have the movement and pushing the movement forward and then you have the market and the money and the profit and all these things. And personally, I try to speak more toward the movement, right? I recently had a psychedelic experience where I was asking myself a really important question about my purpose. I'm like, man, what is my purpose in this? Like, I'm part of this movement. I'm part of this company. Ease, you know, can be perceived as big weed, right? Perception is really important. And then myself and my authentic self, my quest and my intention, and then also co-branding with this company. It really made me ask myself, like, okay, dude, what is my purpose? Like, what am I trying to do? Like, what's the bigger picture outside of like my job here and creating content and like, for what? Am I trying to effect change? Am I trying to make profit? Am I trying to make profit or am I trying to effect change? Man, this was like a question that really burned within me. And what I realized was that sometimes you have to make profit to effect change. That is correct. I'm glad that that was the realization. So when one is able to come from the soul as I care most about the movement, that is what I care most about. I care about the movement towards a unity on this planet, moving forward, that that's what I care about most. At the same time, I understand that I can make steps, greater steps towards that unity as we build things of value into the world that then can help move the movement forward. Yep, I'm glad that you're there. And so that's one of the reasons why I do think that the United States picking up, it's getting a little fire under its butt to move forward in the legalization will help advance the move. Well, I will say this, you know, you saw Amsterdam in terms of the recreational marketplace right since the late 80s, coffee shops, my first cannabis cup competition was in 1994. I was 21 years old, okay? And shout out to High Times for creating media that has really been pushing the envelope and telling the story and, you know. Shout out to also Jim McAlpine with 420 games. Oh, all of it. Things like that, yeah, exactly. All of the amazing humans, if that is, in fact, what we are. Yeah. Yeah. Human animals and whatever's coming through that. Oh, I know. That's coming, that's coming shortly. That's actually, we're getting there. We're getting there shortly. Okay. There are so many amazing souls that are collectively pushing this movement forward. And it stems not only from people who create communities or venues, but really all of the people that grow the plant, that process the plant. Now you're starting to see a convergence of the legacy community and the new. Some people refer to as green rushers. Here's the thing, man. The legacy community needs the new community, the business community, the financial community, the legislative community, the investment community. You know, this is why I saw such an opportunity at ease because most of the professionals we have here within this organization are professionals in their respective fields. And this is why the target audience for me in the year and a half that I've been here has been the staff first because it was important to me to make sure that everyone who was expert in all these things that it takes to build and create a business and to fuel an industry, right? We're authentically rooted, pun intended, right? With knowledge, right? Education is always at the forefront. You know what the Wachungs are? Wachungs. Wachung. The Wachungs are the rock formations in New Jersey, right? That Route 280, right? Route 280 wasn't built around the Wachungs. Route 280 went through the Wachungs, right? When you're carving a new path, that's what I feel like my experience has been, like the Wachungs. That's right, that's right. Your first, it's explosive. You have to blast through that rock and then you have to lay a foundation and then you have to build a road and then you watch as civilization travels on that road. That is very beautifully said and I think that may be the divine purpose of so many of us beings on this planet is to do exactly that. That is so gorgeous. We must, it's our obligation to create these roads that civilization can advance on through our hard work of making it happen. And that is a lot of what actualization is all about. Okay, this is something that we've been talking about a lot. It's really important to address how to best handle this. There seems to be a strong good way of looking at this is a topology, a topology of influence, a topology of clout. And as you start laying, you blast through that rock, you start laying the road, you gain further and further up on this topology. And more and more people, the network continues to build, especially once the road is laid out and people are civilization starting to go down it, more and more connections, more and more network effect is going on. It's difficult to figure out how to maximize efficiencies with networks. We see a lot of times people get dragged out of their most efficient habits by going into areas of their network that may not be as effective as if they kept climbing and kept reaching out to more and more diverse areas on the top of these topologies. So, thoughts on this network effect and network theory? Have you heard of the Pinsky Triangle? Sir, please explain the Pinsky Triangle. For me, it's, well, there are many faces. It's three-dimensional. It's actually a four-point geometric figure. It's a tetrahedron, okay? And we'll keep talking in terms of my career triangle, to start, right? Media, food, tech, weed, as we talked about in the show open today. In the 90s, I was connecting the dots. What we do in life is we establish these points, okay? For me, it was media, started with music, okay? Weed and tech. In the 90s, somehow I was able to connect the dots. And really, you know, I worked in technology at a software company. Okay, at night I would record music, live music, and through that music community forged a lot of relationships with cannabis cultivators. And, you know, cannabis and music were kind of like my passion points. And then tech was how I made my living. And then over the course of my career, food came into the equation. You know, in the 90s, it was like people often not only established these points, but then connecting the dots, okay, is everything. And back in the day, it was music and weed. Music and weed is an easy connection, right? And then tech. And I couldn't really, really go forward with the weed thing because in 1994, 93, it was like illegal, right? So then music and tech became the two points that I was connecting, right? But music and tech and weed, and then I really started to propel my career in that geometry. And then 15 years later, I added food. And I opened up a restaurant in Brooklyn, and then the triangle shifted. And then as time went on, cannabis now instead of tech became at the top point. And really, I had kind of gotten out of the tech space, but I stayed in media and food. And that really led to the genesis of Bong Appetit. Bong Appetit connected weed and media and food and went full triangle once again. And then that brought me out to California. And here I am in California and I'm looking at the industry and somehow I met these guys here at Ease. And I was like, oh, media, food, weed. Well, tech was my past life. Man, what would happen if I connected the dots of media, food, tech and weed? Not just three connections, but four. That's when it went from three point geometry to four point geometry to sacred geometry. What I realized was that community is the thread that connected the dots on the Pinsky Triangle. For all of us, coming out here to California and immersing myself in this community, not operating from New York, from the sidelines and kind of living in a cave, but being that Leo and being fearsome atop of the mountain and being like, yeah, dude, right, we're in this. We're in this in media, we're in this in tech, right? What I realized was that we've all got Pinsky Triangles, and you might not refer to it as your Pinsky Triangle, right? But when I take mine and I connect it to yours and the next person who's doing this great work in the movement and this guy who's created this great company and this guy and all these women who are like pushing this in movement forward, all these amazing people, right? When we connect our triangles together, that's when it goes from three point geometry to four point geometry to sacred geometry and that's when the triangle goes fractal, okay? So this was my experience. I'm sitting here at dinner, October 2017, same conversation, and the person at the table next to me is like, have you ever Googled the words triangle and fractal? Knew that my last name was Pinsky. Man, you Google triangle and fractal. Try this at home, type it in. Triangle, fractal, what's it called? It's called a Serpinsky Triangle, dude. This is the guy who created the concept of the triangular fractal is like my namesake, close enough. And then I'm having my moment where I'm like, this is divine, this is bigger than me, like that can't be a coincidence. And then I think to myself like, this is my moment, like in life, you know about finding your purpose, Serpinsky, right? Who else is like a Ser? How about Sir Alec Guinness, Obi-Wan Kenobi? How about Sir Patrick Stewart, Jean-Luc Picard? Like these are my heroes, man. Like love you, Sir Richard Branson, but like you're not Obi-Wan or Picard, dude, right? And this is when I realized that I was like, maybe like, you know, looking at things in this sacred geometry. I got out to California and I started to really, you know, kind of totally forgot the question you asked me by the way. Well, you did start hitting on it in the lens that I thought was quite interesting. It's that when we are, you know, you illustrate your own Pinsky Triangle and your own way of connecting really important fields that you're passionate about to other, yeah, the community to other people's, again, fullest actualization. They've identified their most passionate fields and they've connected them, connecting to yours, connecting to others, making that Serpinsky fractal. And that speaks to what the question that I asked, because you gotta really work in understanding network theory, understanding influence and impact and finding these nodes that you wanna plug yourself to as you keep climbing up, keep plugging yourself into higher and higher mentorships and more and more people from diverse topology heads that you can work with. And so by doing that, you can advance your path that you're paving, that road that you're paving and letting civilization go down. So here's what I commonly say in terms of the community. Man, I don't know who I know anymore. This just goes hand in hand with saying, what was the question? And this is how we met, right? Having some sort of tech that can help to lay out this amazing community, not only in cannabis, but in terms of the people that we know, right? Relationships are at the core. Trusted relationships are at the core, okay? So like this is a problem that I have had over time, 25 years, four different careers. Every single one of these points has their own really powerful trusted network of relationships. I don't know who I know anymore, not only that, but if I knew who I knew and algorithms could help me make proper introductions to accelerate their roads that they are paving, that would be fantastic. So yeah, we're working on this. We're working on some stuff in this field. This is really important. Okay, these couple quick simulation questions on the way out. All right. What would you say is a core driving principle of yours? Like my core driving principle or like core value? Sure. Well, this is the, by the way, the triangle has now been renamed. It's called the triangle, formerly known as the Pinsky triangle. This is what happens in every hero's journey as you experience the ego death, right? What I realized is that a lot of my narrative and the reason why I bring this up in relation to your question of core values is because before the career triangle, before the triangle of trust, there was my core values. As I'm sitting, recovering, 2012, knowing that I was gonna have to make a shift in my career, thinking it was gonna go in a different direction, after 20-some odd years in business, I asked myself, well, what has worked for me and what hasn't? What was important to me? If I'm gonna reinvent myself or move into a different chapter or evolve into a higher consciousness or whatever was gonna happen that I didn't know was gonna happen, what did I need to maintain? Well, passion, let's start with that. You better love what you do, dude, right? For me, in 25 years in work, I had peaks and valleys in passion. I had times in my career where I was so passionate about my work that it didn't feel like work. I had other times in my career where my life and expenses and just maintaining, right, required higher incomes with less passion. Could breed an environment where someone would want to escape with OxyContin and Warcraft. Okay, so passion, boom. Then for me, it was the next thing which was, what I thought was like, this is when the ego is high. I wanna be the CEO. I wanna be passionate for what I do and I need to call the shots. This was the 2013 version of my core values triangle. As that evolved, I realized that maybe it's not that I need to call the shots because if I wanna be the boss, well, that limits the opportunity I have and the people I could work with. So maybe what I need to do is I need to make sure if I'm gonna be part of a bigger, larger organization that I'm able to like kind of beat to my own drum. And it was the rhythm. And then that changed to what I now refer to as inner voice, right? In life, we have people around us, whether it's our friends, spouses, parents, right? That are trying to impose their voice on your path. And it takes a lot of self-confidence to be able to make your inner voice speak loudest. For me in 2013, my inner voice was telling me, dude, you're six months away from turning 40. If you don't lose 100 pounds and get 100% off these pain meds that you've been on for 12 years, you are not gonna make it to 50. Talk about connecting the dots of passion, inner voice. What was the passion for? Life, bro. Right? I was like looking for what my next gig was gonna be. And I decided to make my full-time job me, my health. That was the basis of why I was like, okay, man, I've tried to lose weight as I've started 16 businesses. I've tried to get off these medications as I've tried to be an entrepreneur. And the business needs to be me. And that was only possible because I had 20 years of foundation and was able to not have to be the slave to going into a job for a paycheck. I'd crafted a life where I was able to focus on my food, my health, and interestingly enough, I'm not gonna let you just leave this gaming conversation as an escape thing because the dedication and the discipline and the motivation and the enthusiasm that I got from these online gaming environment. And you have facets of community and you have facets of projecting yourself into as this other character, this whole experience. There are other cognitive benefits that have been logged about games, totally. But what I did was I gamified my life. I took the concept of leveling up my character and I said, man, if I could level 10 tunes to max level as a progression raider in World of Warcraft. You can level up in the real world. Fuck yeah, man. Yeah, I love it. So I gamified my weight loss and my opiate reduction. Love it. Literally, I started to set apps on my phone timers that would time my intake of medication so I could slowly taper off. I joined Weight Watchers which assigned point values to food and allowed me a certain value every day and started logging my intake. I used apps from pharmacies to as pill reminders and I absolutely gamified my experience of losing weight and tapering off opiates to level up my life. It's so interesting now as that translates to cannabis. Education is at the core of changing the hearts and minds of humanity, advancing this movement. Where's the incentive? I mean in Warcraft the incentive was not only leveling up your character and getting legendary weapons and all this kind of gear but really it was based in the lore. They had developed such compelling IP and characters. Tolkien did the same thing, Lord of the Rings. Yeah, Harry Potter, Rowling. All of it. So the depth of the story and the advancement of the story and not being able to move through the story unless you leveled up your character to move into different zones where you could further the thing. Which is your life in this way. You wanna get to 50, you wanna be able to continue doing your creative splash of painting this road and constructing this road. This brings me into the gamification of cannabis. I believe we have an opportunity to gamify consumption as cannabis turns into a commodity, right? Just like media turned into a commodity and then what did you have? You had Netflix that came in with this subscription model and all these cable systems and HBO and all this content that's by subscription, not by content. Music, Spotify, Apple music, right? So I believe that there needs to be an incentive for consumers to come to ease or anywhere on a daily basis and get educated. What's that education incentive? It could be unlocking a new product in the menu, all right? What are you leveling up? I mean like we are lacking right now in terms of our community within the cannabis community, within the ecosphere of ease. Gaming and gaming communities have been integral in that. So I see a future where consumers can come to ease and be given a daily quest, just like in Warcraft. And that daily quest could be like anything from consume this product, which is low dose and healthy for you, but more importantly is like sign up a friend to vote. Go to this legislative hearing, right? Pokemon took the gaming landscape and put it on the map. We're here at Venice, man. They've got these scooters, birds, limes. That's gamification of transportation, man. Just like in game, you have a resource, you get on a ride, you're like boom. So it's the same concept of like taking the game field and extending that into here. Yeah, that's exciting that you send people on quests to do things that further increase their awareness. That's interesting. That's how you level up. That's how you level up. So this brings us to the collective consciousness. I don't wanna take you off path from your questioning, but it's important that through that process of living in virtual game environments and that process of taking the gaming environment and now taking it from within the computer and extending it onto the landscape and fabric of our reality. And then taking also the concept of fractals and how things are just repeating versions of themselves in nature, how do you connect the dots? Well, I've recently heard about this concept of our higher selves and how our consciousness, I think of our consciousness and the expansion of our consciousness. People in the beginning of time had basically two states. You had your awake state and your sleeping state. And your consciousness moved between them. And as technology advanced, think of how many different virtual states, right? How many suspended states of consciousness do you have in every email, text message, right? For me, as a chronic pain patient, I was in a waking dream state, opiate state, right? I believe that our consciousness moves between all these different. And the question is like humanity, and this is deep, dude, right? I want you to know that I'm not attached to this as what I think is going on. I'm open-minded to the possibility that this might be what's going on, right? I've learned to be open-minded to any and every possibility and detached from any of them, okay? But like humanity is at the point right now where we are creating these virtual environments inside of our computers, and then we are controlling versions of ourselves. Our consciousness moves from our real reality in game. In indistinguishable environments. Yeah, yeah. And what's happening is two things are happening. So how is this one not already an instant indistinguishable? You know what the showcase showdown is, dude, and the price is right? It's what happens at the end of the price is right. You got to go through all of the prices right before you get to the showcase showdown, dude. Please, allow me, yeah. You got enough videotape here? I mean, like we got plenty of tape, dude, you know? So, dude, please. Yes, okay? But here's my theory on this. If you think about, sorry. The showcase showdown analogy is what happens at the end of the price is right. There's always a big reveal. It's at the end, dude. Okay, so here's the topic. We talk about this quite a bit on the show. I'm new to the... Always a beginner in life, always. The beginner's mind as it is. That's right. And anyway, so what I believe is happening in this time in our evolved consciousness and our evolution as humanity at large is technology is allowing us to create digital versions of ourselves in games and these massive multiplayer online, they happen to be role-playing games, whatever you want to call them, but we have ourselves and then we have our digital selves. And right now, we're at the point where it takes us to control our digital self, you know? You're using WASD to move your character on the keyboard plus your mouse to move your perspective on the camera and you're moving through this virtual environment. But then what happens, right? The evolution is that the character in game becomes automated. It's artificial intelligence. So now instead of you having to run to do 16 different things, you could automate your character to go do those things. So the character gets smarter. The environment gets more realistic. Okay. Think about the evolution of that. What will happen eventually is the character will become autonomous and the environment will be indistinguishable. So now eventually that character in game could potentially like have a sense of self, right? And then that character would like, then that would be the only thing. That world, that character sense of self, that character sense of self would not realize necessarily that it was being controlled, mostly automated, but still some higher consciousness that has some sort of influence. So now take the fractal theory and fractal it forward like this is our thing and this is what's happening in game, pull it back, right? If we all started from this oneness, if the big bang thing, right? If we all started from this thing and we're all expanding out, right? But we're all connected, right? Then maybe your consciousness is just moving into multiple inner fractal iterations and we in our humanity and what allows us to have this expanded consciousness is the realization that holy shit, man. Maybe like we're not fully in control. I mean, we are, but our conscious, if our consciousness is moving, you know, through different dimensions, I look at reality in a, like I have a theory, again, not attached, but like we're like these vibrating things, us, we're collections of organized vibrating things, right? And we're like antennas and receivers. We receive vibration, we send vibration, right? The electrical alignment of the energy and our configuration, the golden ratio, right? It means that we as an antenna are like we're watching, we're all tuned in to reality because the vibration of everything around us in term and in conjunction with the way we receive it. Imagine like humanity is tuned in to channel seven. That's what we're all watching. That's what this is, channel seven. Now, back in the beginning of time, right? And I'm not a yogi and I'm not a, you know, a monk, from what I think I understand, humanity has been changing our vibrational frequency through things like breathing, meditation. What I refer to as primitive ways of changing your, the way you perceive reality. Now, technology is allowing for us to, you know, do that in different ways, not necessarily through breathing, although they do have float things and vibrational tables and light things that like, you know, can all this different stuff, which is super cool. But then you have the plant. And then you have these entheogenic plants that can also change our frequency, right? I think of the next collective movement, right? The cannabis movement led to the cannabis industry, which leads to the psychedelics movement, which leads to the psychedelics industry, right? At the same time, what's happening is like weed is like making it so that our vessel is so that our body is balanced, right? Dimethyl tryptamine, right? And I don't refer to it as ayahuasca because ayahuasca is a primitive, you know, I've never done ayahuasca but I've hit the DMT a lot, right? Ayahuasca I refer to or think of it like an edible, like you're ingesting it, it's like this long journey, even psychedelics like LSD, mushrooms, right? All of these compounds that give you an extended psychedelic journey. It's very different than punching and piercing the veil of reality in 10 minutes and then returning back and having an opportunity to reflect. Same technology that's being used right now to extract THC from cannabis is being used to extract DMT from a mosa bark and from mikesha tree, right? By the way, which like grows wild and natively and like, you know, Israel and like in these parts of the earth where like, you know, all the old biblical stuff started to happen. So I've never really been a student of religion. I come from a science background. What starts to happen is I get out to California and I start to really connect the dots between a lot of this mystical stuff and a lot of this science stuff, totally. And this is really what I think is the most interesting thing to me right now is how is it that all this shit that was written down back in the day, all this sacred geometry especially, right? Is all so, also the same geometric shapes that we're seeing in science all over the place. You know, so you talk about like the correlation between science and mysticism and spirituality and the simulation. I love that this is the simulation, man. I'm totally open-minded to the concept of us already being in it. You know, you've heard a lot of provocative thought leaders also speaking to that. Absolutely. I think that's really the advantage of my journey with DMT. And it doesn't matter. We hear a lot from people on the show that it doesn't matter. No, it actually, it does matter. It's a very interesting thought experiment to calculate and open one's awareness to understanding simulation theory, understanding how you've indicated throughout the conversation the indistinguishable realities. So as we play in indistinguishable realities with our characters and automated processes. When you can hit a vape pen and hold your breath, three huge hits hold your breath each time as long as you can. And all of a sudden you like pop the fabric of reality. The veil. You pierce the veil of reality, right? And what happens is for that short period of time you see things in a different physics change. The way things sound, the configuration of atoms, all this stuff is now you're looking at the fabric of reality, looking through the fabric of reality, right? And seeing perception and seeing things through a different lens. This is gonna get really good when we are able to completely map neural signatures during subjective mystical experiences and then replay them for other people. But short acting. Short acting. Transformative psychedelic experiences allow us to have that journey, to step into that parallel perspective and then we're back and then we could reflect. Totally. No disrespect to LSD, man, but it is like really confusing sometimes. You know what I mean? When you're like to put all these pieces together while you're like having this extended journey. Piercing the veil with a DMT quickly and then coming back. And I do like there's a serious importance with science, with scientific method, with running hypotheses. And then like I said, being able to display one subjective experience to other people afterward and then do that at mass scales and then say, okay, we are actually piercing a veil of reality. Look at what we're understanding now. Now we're really leveling up as a civilization. It's exciting stuff. And I like how you talked about some of your core values being about that passion that straight up, you love what you do so much, doesn't feel like work. That's a tremendously important things to pass on to children. If you could rebuild civilization from scratch, how would you design it? I would design it in a way that had a, I would design a universal translator at the core. I think that the ability for us civilization to be able to communicate, I think language is a, and the lack of one group being able to even understand. So through communication, I would have some sort of universal communication from the start. Yeah, that's a really good one. Communication has been something you've been referring to several times. Well, not just community, but communication, like, you know. Communication itself, yeah. The way that human animals communicate is a direct representation of the society that they build. So the better we communicate, the better society we build. We talked a lot about this already, what exists past our 3D reality, but let's see, what else do you have to add to the exists past the 3D reality? I think that past the 3D reality, I think what we don't see is we don't see, like, we're communicating right now through structured vibrations through our voice. Have you seen Dune? The movie Dune? Maybe. Okay, go check out Dune. Yeah, I know a scientist, an endocannabinoid scientist, I got it. Dune, actually, they used their voice as a weapon. They would like, they would go, one, two, and like the, and it would like, look like it would like, whoa. So like, this is the deal, dude. We are, like this Cali, like I've heard about Cali vibes, man, my whole life. I didn't realize that like, it wasn't just Cali vibes. It's like, yeah, the cannabis industry got me into vibrations of light. Music got me into vibrations of sound. California specifically like this dude on the beach, the sacred geometry guy, right? This is like the vibration of us. So what I think is beyond our three dimensional perception is like the energy field that surrounds us. You ever notice how when you hug somebody, some people like, it's just flesh, and then other people like, it's like, yeah. Right, so I'm starting to really tap more into us as antennas, receivers, and transmitters. Yeah. And really starting to like, be able to like, do you know my energy field extends like 50 feet, man, and almost in every direction. And I can't see it, but I see that that is an example of something that's outside of the perception of our regular three dimensional environment. It's like the energy that we as people or as living or even, right, all of it. And then what about the non-linearity of time? Well, if in fact our consciousness is moving between different dimensions of time and space. You know, like this 23 of me came back and I'm this 99.8%, Ashkenazi Jew. And what is 99.8% of anything, right? I think of like, you know, this Sierpinski character. And I think of like, you know, these like ancient, you know, what if I'm an ancient being and a future being and a present being all at the same time? You know, I recently had an opportunity to sit with someone who I believe has the ability to have higher consciousness speak through them. And man, things have been happening. I think it's called the synchronicities. How is it that all these things keep happening to me faster and faster and faster? People come into their life, people come into my life and they are bearing the mark of the sacred geometry. One person, it's a pair of earrings. It's triangular in structure for me, man. I think it's because you're paving the road. Well, I thought that, that was the question. I'm like, what's happening? And people coming into my life bearing the mark and then all of a sudden like, you know, like the chaos aligns. And it's because of some energy that comes in that it's like bearing the mark of the triangle. And I'm like, what is it? I sat with someone who is like, I'm like, is it like, are they breadcrumbs? Are they signal like, are people coming? Like, what's happening? What is happening? And one perspective was, it's not people that are coming into your life. I think the exact quote was, it's you, dude. It's you. And you ever come up from underwater where you're like underwater and then all of a sudden you're suffocating, right? Or even you're underwater and you're holding your breath, but when you come above water and you're like, and I had that moment, man, as soon as it was like it's you and I realized, wow, dude, that's when I really thought about time being nonlinear. What if past, present and future were happening all right now and what if it was actually my higher self? Like I am a artificially intelligent, fully automated in-game character that is being influenced by my higher consciousness. Wow. It's a good summary of our last little bit of convo, yeah, yeah. This is an important thought experiment to actually embody and really subjectively aim to understand better as individuals and then talk to others about. It's a very interesting one. Okay, last couple of questions. We talked about this briefly, but do you think this is a simulation? I'm open-minded to the possibility that it very well may be. I'm not attached to that reality. But I'd say that I would be accepting of that reality given my life experience in gaming. As that translates to future generations, I think that the kids coming up these days have a completely leg-up advantage by living in these virtual worlds from childhood as it relates to being open-minded for that. And as time moves forward and as technology advances and as we create virtual environments that become realistic and we separate the need for having there to be a screen. Have you seen the new Star Trek discovery? Do you know that the ship is powered by psychedelic mushrooms and warp drive is now quantum drive and they jump between parallel universes? Remember, Star Trek had the first interracial kiss back in the 60s, right? This is a perfect example of media kind of setting the stage for future generations and the possibilities of what might actually be. And hopefully we're doing that with the show. Yeah, dude, this is the deal, dude, the simulation series. Hopefully, amazing. Last question. Please. What do you think is the most beautiful thing in the world? Us. I think the most beautiful thing in the world is us. Not you, not me, but like collectively, man. I think it's beautiful as we harmonize in our vibrational frequency. I think it's beautiful as we harmonize in our purpose. I think harmony is beautiful. Earth is beautiful and earth becoming a pinnacle, the pinnacle of what it can be and it's fullest prosperity is gorgeous. Full harmony. Mr. Pinsky, what a pleasure this has been. Amazing, thank you so much for the opportunity. This has been super fun. Love it. Super wide-ranging conversation too. I love that stuff. You had some really powerful wisdoms in this show. We really appreciate learning more about all things related to cannabis as a nutrient for civilization. This has been really enlightening. Everyone, I thank you so much. We thank you so much for tuning in. Greatly, greatly appreciate it. We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. Let us know. Join the community and the conversation. Let's chat about it. Let's spread these messages and get talking to other people about it. Check out Jason's links below to his work, to Ease and Bon Appetit and more. Check that all out in the links below and continue supporting us below as well. We need to do cool things like continue coming on site to great places like Los Angeles and talking to epic leaders like Mr. Pinsky and go and build the future, everyone. Go and manifest your destiny into the world. We love you so much. Thanks for tuning in. Peace. Peace. I love it. Come here. Come here. Good stuff, brother. That was awesome. That was great. That was good shit, man, thank you. Okay, so it's Pinsky and the Brain. We're here today with Alan. Take over. It's Roll with Pinsky. We're here with Alan and we are in the simulation series. Here to discuss all things considered. Alan, please. Alan, please tell us about it. Alan, please tell us. All right, all right, so. Me, me, me, me, me, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves. Can you do it with me? 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves. 20 dwarves, 20 dwarves. Okay, as you were. Now you may start. Please. I love it. All right.