 Lenka says, hi, I'm a beginner, and I need advice on how to create an organizational structure in SharePoint. She is a beginner because she spelled SharePoint with the lowercase p. So we know that's true. I tried PowerApps, but I don't know much about it. When I create an application from SharePoint data, I don't know how to upload it back to SharePoint. Thanks for the advice. I'm curious what a PowerApp SharePoint architecture would look like, but that's just me. Why SharePoint though? Why not moving Viva and Gage? We can go better questions. You can mark it, you can have that feeding into your SharePoint site. Well, that's the next question. Can you define the function? My question is the org chart. She's saying like, I need an org chart or the people, or they're trying to do an org chart for like, how to organize. Right. I think they're trying to organize or do I need a person reporting structure? Yes. Because it says an organizational structure in SharePoint like she wants to display the organizational structure of the organization. So my question is, have you seen the web part called org chart? Two, a lot of people, you can use search to build different things like corporate directories and have filters and based off the departments and stuff and pulling from your different features from your profile like your manager. That's how you essentially build your org chart, but you can do that for corporate directories and all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot of things that you wouldn't need to go custom development to do to pull the org chart information. Now to make it pretty, you probably need someone who's a little bit of a designer to help make it look pretty, but just to pull the data, it's technically already there. Well, I put a link in the comments in the spreadsheet for the Visio org chart wizard. Yeah. So you can extract it out to Excel. And I've used that to plan the whole architecture of a SharePoint environment. It doesn't have to be used to create an org chart. It's just a way to create related hierarchies within your organization. So if they want to use that, is she trying to create architecture? Is she trying to create an actual reporting structure with people or the org chart of a company? Yeah. And if you want something that's pretty, that's already pre-built, there is one out there on GitHub that I've seen, probably a couple of it by this time, because it's been a while. There are some org charts already built that already look pretty that you can bring in. Well, the org chart is built into SharePoint. If your active directory is properly populated. Yeah. If your manager fields are correct, you get good data, but yeah. Could you do a flow that came from there dropping into Visio and the Visio part dropping into SharePoint and do it? Could you do that? I can't say I've played with it, but... SharePoint uses Excel to create the... And you kind of have to refresh it. So you could create the... You could create it in an Excel workbook and then use that as the data source for Visio anyway, if that's what they're looking for. But yeah. Yeah, you could get super fancy and use the graph and then use Power Automate to grab from the graph and then use the connector and then link it in and then dump it into somewhere and then present that in Visio. Maybe have a data verse. You can export it out to Excel and create a Visio chart and publish it once a week or something. So many things you could do, but yeah. I don't feel like we have all the information there or it's not very clear to give her a very straight answer. I don't think she wants to... I don't think she wants an org chart. I don't think she wants an org chart. She wants someone to tell her how to organize her SharePoint. Like, how do I make sites and site structures and lists and libraries and where do I put them and how do I organize my company's SharePoint architecture? I think that makes sense if you read the first sentence. If you read the rest, she tried to build a Power App to do this and she wouldn't build a Power App to do that instead of a SharePoint architecture. Well, this folks is why it's important to... When you're asking for help or for guidance on a forum somewhere is to put a little more detail and explain the scenario what you're trying to do is because so often like this one, my first reading too, I was kind of divided on is it a SharePoint architecture question or as I read on, I went the same conclusion. Like she's talking about org charts and like there are third party solutions. There's the org, the app. I mean, there's multiple options. You can go build something that's out there but this would be great if we could follow up with Lenka and ask some other questions but yeah, we can't. Yeah, I was with the architecture thing at first until I read the next sentence and I was like, nope, she really means an org chart. So, yeah, but it's still iffy. Can I say that I have so much... Oh, I'm sorry, Jonathan, I didn't hear you. Sorry, I think the second question's unrelated and showing that she's new to SharePoint. She also through SharePoint tried to create a Power App and didn't know how to put the data back from Power App back into SharePoint which is either a submit button on form, a patch statement on fields or something of that general nature, maybe even a Power Automate flow if you wanna get fancy. That's how I reconciled the difference is how do I structure my stuff in SharePoint and also I tried from Power Apps, I'm brand new and I didn't understand what to do. I'm asking for two pieces of help in one question. Possibly. Hey, Norm, you were gonna add something? I have a lot of empathy for Lenka and people in Lenka's question. All right, position, excuse me. Conceivably, she's just trying to get to an end result, making an org chart. Presumably, she's working in HR and this is part of their ongoing responsibilities. And then they're gonna use the tools that they have at their disposal. Well, I mean SharePoint, I have a SharePoint site, I have a list. There's that Power Apps button, let's create a way and then you end up going down this slippery slope of God help the poor person in HR trying to learn Power Apps when they don't need to. We're having to go through all these solutioning. Can you imagine being in HR and then someone like blasting all these questions at you about how are this and how are that and Azure this and Azure that? And it's like, it's ridiculous. It's like, it's really hard for just a normal user trying to get their job done. And this is where, you know, all the people on this call, what we can see, hopefully, are doing, you know, advocate for the users, try and map out a requirement to a solution that is something that they're capable of doing. As a recovering HR professional, covering a completely relate to this, you know, every time somebody got hired, you know, promoted and I was the person that I had that had to maintain that org chart and publish it and print it and post it and email it. And yeah, I don't, you can tell I don't miss being an HR professional. You drank a lot during those days, didn't you? I mean, potentially there's another solution. If they have Visio, the desktop client, there is a way for you to do a custom import so they can connect to a SharePoint Foundation list so they can connect to a site and just import the data there and then work with whatever shapes they wanna work within the org chart or work with a specific template that they already kind of have set up that they like in Visio. And then just bring that data in and you have it assigned to those shapes and you're good to go. So I think there are, if we take it back to the basics of maybe not having to work with Power Apps or Power Automate or some of those other things as we were saying, like that might be too complex for really what the need is here. Visio, go to that data ribbon, look at your custom import choices. It could be an access database. It doesn't necessarily have to be an Excel workbook that you're bringing in. You've got, I think, more flexibility there and also from the learning resources that you have available to you online. We're asking more questions here of us to help you along the way too. We have some Visio MVPs we could, of course, reach out to and get some answers also if you need it. I think that that might be a quicker way to get you up and running and then also for managing it down the road, right? Because as you have changes, having to go back in and change that Power Automate flow or change Power Apps or whatever you're using, that might be a little bit more complex too. I don't know if I've missed a little bit. Maybe I missed a point here, but for an organizational chart, and maybe the question was trying to say, how do I build an entire organizational chart, like top to bottom and display it and show it out? But there's tons of features in SharePoint and Teams that already will show organizational features, right? In Teams, you can right click on a person and show organization and see those details. And I'm trying to understand, and like I say, maybe I missed something, but I'm trying to understand what's the actual scope of the ask here? Is it to show like the entire organizational chart, excuse me, entire organizational chart, like top to bottom, several levels deep in one go? Is that the ask? I think that's what we're assuming. I mean, without being able to ask follow-up question, because that was my thought was that, if you're the danger of building an external solution, whether you build your own automation or you use a third-party solution, you're pulling it outside of that to be able to go in and structure the organization, move pieces, maybe you're doing a reorg and you want to be able to see all the pieces and move things around, it's then dead to the live system. And that ideally you have something that you're viewing that information, you're making changes there in the system, not outside the system, so you're not having to do a whole bunch of other work to bring those changes back in. Yeah, just leverage the profile services that we have, right, there's not only AAD, there's SPODS, which will give you the option to, like we have dotted line scenarios and you can take an individual user and you can see their dotted line connection to their manager and so on and so forth. So yeah, there's a whole, all the data's there, it's right to the folks that were speaking prior to me, it's just the case about how do you build the canvas that displays that information if they want something more complex than what we have already.