 Insecurity in the country becomes more alarming as over 120 people were killed by non-state actors across the country in one week alone. And the People's Democratic Party PDP experiences fresh crisis over its chairmanship zoning as members demand open contest. This is Plus Politics and I am Mary Anacoff. The state of insecurity across Nigeria seems to be taking a turn for the worst. Last week, that is between September 24th and October 2nd, at least 123 people, including security personnel and civilians, were killed in various attacks by non-state actors. Out of 123 people killed, four were security personnel, two policemen and two soldiers, while the other 119 were civilians. Most of the killings were security personnel, which were mostly carried out by bandits, which occurred in the north-west and the north-central zones, and the epicenter of banditry activities. The figure for last week is the highest weekly toll in the past one month. There were less than 40 cases per week in the last three weeks. But joining us to break this down and all of the numbers and make some sense of it is Kabea Adamu, a security risk management expert and Adewale Ademola Justus, a political analyst. Thank you very much gentlemen for joining us. Yes, I really appreciate it. Ah, great. Okay. I wanted to be sure that you can hear me. I'm going to start with you, Mr. Kabea. It's interesting that we're having a surge in non-state actors and their activities more than we have ever had in the country. What would you, as a security personnel, say is responsible for it? Thank you. So, the hundred and hundred that are most frankly in the context of Nigeria is not an increase. And I don't mean by any way to not sound alarmed by the numbers and I'll explain what I think. So, we do produce a monthly report where we are an allied friend and of course provide figures for that. The list we've had from the beginning of the January to now has been about 600. So, if you divide that 600 by the four weeks that you have in the month, it means on the average you have at least 150 people dying every month. Now, we've had in June, which is the highest number that we've had in this year alone, we had, it's because, 1,032, which means for the month of June on a weekly basis, approximately around 300 plus persons were killed in Nigeria. So, I just wanted to remind you of this. I know the media houses that have published this report, perhaps for some reasons, maybe they didn't have the data base that we have, and so the way it was presented, what is that data, was an increase. It gave worries on, even if it's 10 people that are killed in the country in the week or in the month. But I just thought I should lay this foundation, it's not in any way suggesting that increase. Of course, it's indicating the fact that insecurity is still a huge challenge in the country, just like President Buhari spoke about during the independent speech, very highlighted in security. Interestingly, the President, yes, did speak about the fact that he's doing something. He talked about recruitment into the Air Force, he talked about recruitment into the police. But we're looking at what's happening now, and in the interim, how do these recruitment, how effective can they be for us in the interim to deal with these guys, because, again, we seem to be dealing with an issue of nomenclature here, we're calling them unknown gunmen, we're calling them bandits, but these people, terrorizing the country, different regions in the different parts of the country, but nomenclature seems to be an issue, and hence the reason why we're calling them non-state actors. But the President also failed to speak about the number of people who have died, the people who have been attacked, remember that people were attacked in Kaduna, and the attacks keep happening, even though the number of people killed may not be as much as we might make it, but one life lost is as valuable as a hundred or two thousand. Many critics have said that the President did not in any way try to give the people a sense of belonging, or of somewhat condol with the families of those who lost their lives. Is that for me? Yes, it is for you. Yes. I've had grievances about how men, but every leader has his own. It's possible that for the warrior style in that speech, when we reference security, it is his own way of ensuring condolence, and the fact that he sympathizes with the people who lost their lives. Because apart, we could have spoken about several other things, but it's about security. Of course, the expectation may be, for him to mention, that citizens go to have died, and the fact that at the government, we sympathize with them, and we are sure, of course, in my hearing that there will be an improvement in that area, which I think he did in that speech. Now, speaking about recruitment, I feel that even if we decide to have a million security law enforcement personnel, as long as we don't address the root causes of insecurity, then that million security personnel are not going to help our situation, because usually, we, as a country, especially the government, have to provide the foundation for the security of racism in the workplace. Now, where is the kind of situation we're dealing with in Nigeria? Where the issues of great racism, what is driving the security of political, social and economic exclusion, as an example, sometimes real and sometimes certain, not about security partner, is about the political class taking up those issues that are dividing up, and finding a way to resolve those issues, to reduce the grievances and the contingent for anyone who is at grief, to use unlawful means to either sabotage the government, or to cause some kind of chaos with the views to point to something that the government is doing. President, why do you think about that? Well, what I would be more interested in, what is the government going to put forward in terms of policy and operational action, play action to show how that grievances, those grievances will be resolved. A good example at the moment is the session with vegetation in both the South East and the South West of the country. Now, he's mentioned that the good and the forefront of that good education has been arrested, but the idea, the stream, the spirit, is still holding very strong, especially in the South East and in some parts of the South West. The number I like to be being threatened by that stream. So what is the government going to put forward in terms of building mechanisms to reduce good grievances and reduce the tendency of these persons to recruit from within the agrarian population? I'm sure that that's what I'm hoping to see. And I would have expected to hear from that. OK, Mr. Adewale, let me bring this to you. There are just like I asked, just like I asked Mr. Adam about Mr. President's speech. And of course, people also watch the body language of the president in terms of all that's been happening across the country. And I asked him, why do we think that these non-state actors all of a sudden have emerged and have become and have so much following, especially for the case of Namdik Kanu and Sondik Bohu, who have now been in cost, they're now in custody, of course, of the DSS. The president made mention of them in his speech and has said that he's dealing with the issue. But then he also spoke about the fact that there are people who are peddling lies and costing more divisions around and across the country. There are also naysayers who responded to Mr. President saying that he's part of the elites who have also brought some form of division across the country. So again, how do we deal with the issue, the foundation of these divisions that we have that have cost these non-state actors to be thrown up for us? Because we cannot really deal with insecurity. Or let me ask it as a question. Can we really deal with insecurity if we do not address the reason for the insecurity in the first instance? Thank you very much. Yeah, I want to appreciate the former speaker for what they have said. I know, like in some categories, this is a substitute for our nation Nigeria, because we will see almost all the regions of the country have their own share of this evil. Non-state actors in a legitimate mission, in a sovereign mission, is an absurdity. And like you said, this is not just a matter of the insufficiency of personnel or particularity of refugees. I commit to say it is because of the fallout of the foundation of the country. And like you said in your last expression, but it's not that the condition is that terribly false. Why would it be that the non-state actors as leaders whose followership is growing dramatically almost every time? It is because a lot of people are seeing the nation as a failed state. And then some of the actions of our leadership, almost on a regular basis, are appealing to us making people a term of an assurance that the nation has failed. Because our health or what else would you say of the country? If not, there's crisis. Moving down south, the politics is burning. Not like in just some two hours ago, just yesterday, Joe E. Bokwet House was set ablaze by Nigerians. So, you see, when it gets to a level when people throw away their relationship, all we need to throw up or to showcase or project the anger they have against the entity called Nigeria. Those that set ablaze and they do it, Bokwet House has people around its heritage, but they disregard their relationship with them. And yet went up to set up what they had on fire just to show their anger for the nation, Nigeria. So it's a failed state syndrome and it's so sad. None of our leaders yet is able to identify with this. It is not a function of the personnel. If we have millions of millions of security operators, if the foundation is not addressed and the foundation nationalities, patriotism, employment, folk of the people out there that are causing this carnage, they are jobless. And ahead of them, they can't see a future. So whether it's around them with Bokwet has no, our trip has to go for them. But how is destroying your own or killing your own people, if that be even the case? And we're talking about what's happening in the Southeast and I'm not talking about the banditry or the terrorism that's happening in the North Central or in the North West. They are all their children. I'm asking, if you are agreed with the government, how does destruction of your people, the businesses amount to hurting the government or getting their attention? How does that work? No, no, you see, normalcy is when people are feeling OK, mentally, physically, like Bokwet, economically and financially. Women, there is a misnomer in the thinking of the people, particularly through their psychology. They will throw up that you are considering in your exposition. They are not interested in whether they are killing their own people, but they want to upturn the entire environment and make the whole world see Nigeria as countries. Do you understand? People are not considering whether they are killing their own persons or whether they are burning the homes of what's happening in the South East. Because conveying foods to that region with the Secretary of State, because letting the MRA and the multipliers here, Secretary of State, the people don't want to showcase their anger. You understand? It's a signal of the shared space. People just want to showcase and project their anger for everybody around the world to know that Nigeria is finished. You understand? Interesting. It's a foundational world. But I mean, I'm interested in this particular position that you're taking. But then I have spoken to people, political analysts who have also made mention of the fact that this is peculiar to the build up to an election season, that there's always some form of unrest that leads up to an election. You know, and they're saying that this has happened before. Although many have argued also in certain quarters that this has never happened on this scale, where you have pockets of violence almost everywhere in the country, that it makes you shudder at the thought of even driving from one end of the country to the other. So we're talking about problems here, but I always like to talk about problems and solutions. If you have, we have, I mean, you and Mr. Adam will have clearly stated that there is a problem. How do we deal with it? Because we cannot continue allowing people to die, whether we know them or not, whether the numbers are high or not. Why is government not taking it upon themselves, not just to speak about, you know, recruitment of people into the force and the long arm of the law dealing with them. But why is government not dealing with the major issue, which is the foundation? Yeah. See, like you said, if we shift our attention or focus from the issues to the solution, the solution is simple. It is simply because our leadership are yet to identify with the people. When I mentioned leadership, I wouldn't want everybody listening to me or everyone under the influence of my voice to think I'm talking about the president. The respective figure of leadership we have right from the president to the local government councillor. They are yet to identify with the people. Identifying with the people is feeling their thoughts, feeling the darkness with the people, feeling poor roads with the people, feeling joblessness with the people and feeling a debt poverty. We have a leadership now that lives and drives in Rolls Royce while the people are strolling or they are protected on the road. So it is because our leadership is yet to identify with the realities of the of the followers. The followers are suffering in Nigeria and our leaders are high up, they are far away. So the main solution is for the leaders to identify with the followers and the issues on ground. Do you understand? I can hear you. Yeah. OK, I'm good. I'm good. OK, go ahead, go ahead. Yeah, like I said, so until we have a leadership that comes closer, like I said, why would you have a local government chairman who refuses to live and sleep in the local government where he is the chairman? I have one in our inundated. Is the local government chairman of our local government by a list and place in Akure? Is a leadership aberration? How do you want the people to trust him? How do you want them to follow him? How do you want him to believe what he has in his mind? What he what he tells them? But if he lives in the environment with them and he drives through the rough road with them and he lives in darkness, then he can tell you what they are feeling. So we have a leadership that is separated from the followership. So that's the major pain of the Nigerian crisis. Let me go back to Mr. Kaperdam. It's interesting that most of these people who are either non-state actors or working with these non-state actors are young people. And this is the future of Nigeria. And if our young people are the ones who are in the forefront of supporting or perpetrating these acts of violence, it should be a cost for war. And just like Mr. Demola has said, our leaders seem not to be leading by example. But we the followers, do we have to wait for our leaders? Because I mean, I'm going somewhere because I can hear at the back of my mind somebody saying, well, we can't victim blame the followers. But as a people, should we not also take some time to look at how we can also play a part in delivering the kind of future that we want, especially with our young people who are seemingly becoming tools in the hands of these perpetrators of violence? Yep. Am I on? Am I sitting on? No, no, no, I'm talking to Mr. Dammu. Okay, okay. So, interestingly, last month, or rather, well, time flies, in August, the African Falling Institute, API, released a social cohesion report. I took my time to study that report, and it showed that social cohesion, here, I was below average, around 40-40 percent. I think the cause of point for an acceptable social, national social cohesion from 50 percent upwards to claim to it one decision as a people has almost collapsed, and that goes together, but between reasons. Now, what are the reasons for that? There are reasons that I went in that report, but in answer to your question, the one I think comes to mind that we need to speak about is the extent in poverty level within the country, and not just the poverty level, which according to the National Bureau of Statistics is about 33 percent, but the poverty level and the unemployment rate for youth, which, depending on where you are in the country, is also different. So, as an example, in Lagos state, the poverty level is quote-unquote 4 percent. In my state, where I come from, it's about 87 percent. So, imagine the number of youth that are within that poverty cycle, and who, for one reason or the other, would want to move from Lagos to get a job. Now, situate that movement to the current hate messaging that is unfortunately permeating our national existence, where every movement is most likely to be classified as the movement of others. Meanwhile, the reason for their movement is in search of winner factors. But does that not also point to the fact that the leadership at all levels in those states are not doing the job that they promised to do and are not also carrying the people or lifting them out of poverty? I know government cannot do everything, but there has to be a precedence of sorts set by the government. So, exactly, but I wouldn't... I was trying to paint a picture, and the picture I was trying to paint is to start from the family level. That value system that has collapsed, there are several levels of responsibility, and I painted a picture to show how the family is quite irresponsible. If, as a father, you give birth to children that you are not able to cater for, you can't send them to school, where sometimes you have the resources but the job wants to be there, and then that up to the community level, where the community also fails in ensuring that you, as a father, or as a family unit, where you fail, then there is no way of redirecting you back to your responsibilities. And then we can even move up to the school level, as well as our religious bodies that are value shapers and in the cave of the schools that have responsibilities for both giving education as well as skills to our youth. I'm an employer of labor, and I can clearly with all sense of responsibility get in good stand from, you know, even our graduate. It's a very difficult thing. You see people with good certificates or when it comes for them to descend the certificate is extremely difficult. Now, I'm not generalizing that there are definitely very people that are worthy of their certificate, but on the whole there is a huge issue there. And then of course from there we look up to the government. And then when we come to the government, both at the local government, at the state level and at the federal level, each has its responsibility. So I'm trying to change the picture of our collapse Mali system. It will be wrong for us to point the finger at the government and say that they are responsible. So it's a responsibility that starts from the family up to the government. And I think what I'm hoping as we start containing an issue again 2023 that we address this issue squarely, our value system that seems to have collapsed and where life unfortunately does not appear to have any value, like we should as the people ask ourselves what happened, why is it that we no longer cherish those good value that we used to hold as a people. I remember growing up those things that we used to cherish as a community. In fact, I remember very well my dad was a civil servant. A family member is caught corrupt in any way. Believe me, the entire family is avoided. But today the reverse is the case. All that matters is for the person to be rich and nobody even but us to ask how the person got rich. And from instances they even know that he got rich to do the other things but he still valued and given some form of respect within the society at all of these levels that I mentioned. Okay, interesting. Finally, because we're out of time just as Mr. Damoha said yes, we have an enrolled culture of value system in the country. But looking forward to the future, 2023 is in the radar, whatever is happening, what politicians are doing is mostly for 2023. But as a country that has been touted as the giant of Africa I do not know if we're still able to occupy that status. But do you see this going away any time soon whether it's the Bahá'í government or the government after? Do you see us able to deal with the issues and address them head on or not? Thank you very much. Like my friend said there the collapse of the value system of the society is a critical contribution to what we have seen. But now as she said by the poor leadership we've been having as a people. You see, if we must propose solutions like I do approach to people in my personal capacity the homes are completely broken. The value system needs to be re-enached all the time again. Parents, parents particularly have critical roles made. And beyond the parents now our traditional lives have gone laggared. Because you will see we are in societies where it is the traditional lives that are the greatest harbourings of use in the society. They support also where they ought to come out and challenge certain things for for it is best known to them our traditional lives no longer looped that side. And now back to the civil society part of which the religious homes, the churches and the more are being treated. The values have gone back to where they used to come from. People don't gather for garden sake. Messages of reality no longer come to people. And now with sheer hunger everybody becomes a sell-out. And that is why we are doing what we are doing. Well I want to say thank you very much. It's a very sober conversation. Kabir Damu is a security specialist and of course Adiwali Adimola is a political analyst. Thank you very much for joining us on this conversation. I appreciate it. Thank you for loving. Alright. Well thank you all for staying with us. We'll take a short break now and when we return we will discuss the PDP and their plans for zoning of the national chairmanship and of course for the presidency ticket. We'll be back shortly.