 So why do women sabotage good relationships with men? Well, we're going to talk to Sabrina rising about this. Sabrina, what are your thoughts on that question? My thoughts are that men and women sabotage relationships. Both tenders do. And I think sabotaging is an interesting term. In my work, as you know, Jonathan, from working with me, the subconscious mind is responsible for everything that we're creating. So we can call it sabotage if you have a conscious desire to create something. And the subconscious mind kind of takes over. Let's say you want loving partnership, but on a deep subconscious level, you believe that you're unlovable or that love is a struggle, or that there's nobody out there for you, which we've talked about before. That will eventually take over. And when I say it takes over, it takes over your thinking process. It takes over your decision making process. It takes over your choices, your behavior. It directs everything about us. And so now it looks like we're sabotaging. We're sabotaging what we consciously desire. What we're in essence, what we're really doing is just playing out the subconscious and the subconscious beliefs are there. They're programmed in childhood, right? So unless we address them and unless we address our beliefs about who we are, what we can have, you know, a perfect example, you know, you want to manifest a loving partnership and all of a sudden a loving partner shows up and, you know, we don't know what to do with them, right? We push them away, we repel them, we look for ways out, we get scared. You know, we go a little deeper, we become vulnerable. All of a sudden we start to find reasons why it's not going to work and we look for excuses to exit the relationship or maybe we find fault with the other person. And so these are all ways in which fear will kick in and say, hey, you know, this isn't safe, right? It's not safe to let your guard down. Well, let me, OK, that's a good point right now. It's not safe to let our guard down to some extent. You know, if a person has been, for lack of a better word, hurt more than once or several different times, it can be rather scary being vulnerable. And even in the particularly in the current dating environment, where most of the time we meet total strangers, it's kind of unnerving to be vulnerable, to be open when you don't know the other person. And yet the same time, I think that fear is what causes people to unintentionally, for lack of a better word, sabotage. I mean, I don't mean to sound melodramatic when I say sabotage, but I'm trying to suggest that, you know, in this title is that it happens on an unconscious level. Am I on the right path here? That's what we're talking about. Sabotage happens on an unconscious level. We don't willingly sabotage something good. You don't want to destroy something good. You don't want to destroy the possibility of meeting someone new or destroy the possibility of going on a date or being open to love or, you know, having good things happen to in general, right? Not just relationships, but in any area of life. We don't want to destroy the possibility of that. And yet we find sometimes that we do, you know, we drop the ball or we, you know, we say the wrong thing or you know, we, you know, we find a way to exit the possibility of putting ourselves in harm's way. And this is just something we do to keep ourselves safe. So OK, so here's the thought. And by the way, since this title and my audience is women, let's just agree, well, you already stated earlier, this is true for men and women alike. Men sabotage good relationships with women. Women sabotage good. But I wonder where that fear is really coming from, from a woman's perspective. Like, why is it that the minute they might get close to getting what they want, it literally causes that subconscious to ruin it? Like, where is that really coming from? Well, as we mentioned earlier, it comes from childhood. It comes from childhood. And, you know, of course, let's just focus on women as you as you suggested. For example, you know, a woman can have, you know, memories with her dad that are particularly painful. Let's say whatever the experience was with father, perhaps dad wasn't there or dad was neglectful or dad was abusive or dad was, you know, emotionally unavailable or whatever the experience was with dad. We internalize this and this becomes, you know, the our experience with the masculine, our experience with the masculine energy. And so now when we go out to have relationships, it can be with men or it can be just in general with the masculine vibration. You know, both men and women have masculine energy. We start to reek. We subconsciously are attracted to people that will help us recreate this felt experience so that we can heal it. Right? I'm sorry to jump or finish your thought because I got something I want to say. Yeah. My my the thought I was going to say is that we sabotage, I mean, there's so much around this. We say, OK, you know, you're not for me or this isn't for me or I'm doing this to push this push love away or whatever. Whatever the whatever the belief is directing in terms of behavior. The opportunity is to be aware that we're sabotaging, right? OK. To be aware like go ahead. No, well, here's where I'm going. OK, so maybe, you know, we could talk about the amago coming back to we. We play out these childhood wounds. We play out this this need to heal something with our father or even our mother, too, because I'm sure it's not singular to one gender. I mean, it goes for both genders, right? Is that like like it seems fascinating to me? Like why would the subconscious even do that? Like what like what's the ration? What's the rationale going on in the subconscious where it says, OK, I've got this adult person here, you know, I'm going to force this person. I'm saying tongue in cheek, OK, to go out and relive their childhood wound, their adult traumas with this relationship, even though they want to be in a healthy, happy relationship, I'm going to sabotage it. I'm going to ruin it because that's what happened to my childhood. Like on some level, that doesn't make sense. I know it sounds crazy, but that's why it's conscious, right? It's not something we do with awareness. Yeah, we don't do that with awareness, right? We would be willingly sabotage something good. We do it because we're not aware that fear is being triggered, right? And deeper emotions are being triggered. A survival instinct is being triggered as we become more vulnerable and feel more susceptible to being hurt or abandoned or betrayed or whatever the story was for you in childhood. And so when one wants these fears come up, that's when that's when the sabotage kicks in, right? And it becomes more powerful, more bigger than what we're capable of being aware of in the moment. And this is why inner work is so important. It's so important to be self-aware of, you know, what our triggers are, what our imprinting was in early childhood so that we can overcome these tendencies and we can say, hey, you know what, I'm feeling scared. I'm feeling vulnerable. I'm feeling whatever it is I'm feeling because I'm aware that this is my you know, this is my conditioning. This is what happened to me in childhood. You know, OK, so I'm obviously I I scream at the top of my lungs, sometimes on my videos, the importance of doing personal development, self-help spiritual work to heal childhood wounds and adult traumas because by doing this, you are less likely to, particularly in the relationship realm, sabotage a good relationship. Right. Just from your perspective, and I'm going to go off topic or go down a different rabbit hole here for a second. What percentage of people do you think actually do inner work? I'm just curious. And I know that's a loaded question. I love this question. I, you know, I think it's growing. Let's be optimistic. I think it's really I think more and more people are becoming aware. There's so much in even mainstream media that points to, you know, therapy and therapy and self-help, personal development. And we're not even talking about deep, deep esoteric spiritual practices, even just basic mindfulness will take you into a more complete picture of who you are and how you show up in relationships. You know, there's it's really important that when we talk about sabotage, we realize that there's what we want, right? Yeah. Then there's what we believe about ourselves. OK. And so just to make it very clear for everybody who's listening, there's what you want and there's what you believe about yourself. And these two, if they're not in alignment, you're going to run into trouble and you're going to run into behaviors that are sabotaging the your possibility at sustainable long term happiness with any one particular individual. OK. We sabotage when you say, and I'm sorry, I'm interrupting. When you say what we believe about ourselves, is it what the subconscious believes about itself or the conscious mind? Because I think, OK, because I'm aware that as a human, we can create a false sense of self, even with the conscious mind. 100 percent. We're always when we talk about beliefs, the beliefs that are not questionable are the ones that are in the subconscious mind, because we don't have access to them and they have deep the subconscious mind is like, you know, these are long held values. These are beliefs that have been there since childhood, right? And what's happened because they've been there since childhood is that throughout the course of our lives, we've accumulated so much evidence, so much evidence that this is true. You know, I'm someone who can't hold on to a good man or I'm someone who can't go on to a good relationship or I can't find anyone who loves me or, you know, all my I always attract the same type of guy. You know, like, I've got one you here, right? Yes. So I growing up, I mean, I heard this from my mother so many times. You're such a negative pessimistic person. And what's fascinating was she was the negative pessimistic person, but she would always lay that shit on me from age, whatever, to even adulthood. And I mean, this was the message I heard over and over again. I'm negative and I'm pessimistic. Yeah, OK, good. I love that you said that because we're going to talk about projection and projection in particular in relationships. The mechanism of projection and, you know, anyone who's like doing self help or reading, you know, about your developments and your imprinting in your subconscious mind. And if you're diving in to really understand who you are and how you show up in relationships, projection is something that kills relationships, because this is how it works. We when we withhold the truth about ourselves, which so many of us do, right, because it's either not safe to share how we really feel. We want to avoid conflict. We are afraid of being vulnerable, whatever the situation is. And we withhold the truth about ourselves. We withdraw from the relationship and that can seem like even just a slight little bit of distance or a cold front or, you know, maybe a little bit of disconnection in the intimacy. And then we end up projecting how we feel about ourselves onto the other person. So when we withhold the truth, we withdraw from the dynamic and then we project how we feel onto our partners. So, for example, if I let's say you're in a relationship and you feel like your partner is not giving you enough attention, you know, your partner is distant or, you know, emotionally unavailable or disinterested in you and you don't share. That's how you're feeling, right? You don't share that that's how you're feeling. So you withdraw from the relationship and then you project how you feel. You're, you know, you don't love me or you're not interested in me anymore. You're losing interest in me or whatever the person is. Does that make sense? No, actually, something interesting happened to me today with one of my coaching clients. She sent me a letter stating she wanted to just postpone coaching for a few weeks. But she told me she was terrified sending that letter. And I'm like, why? Why? Because I didn't know how you're going to react. I'm like, first, I told her, look, sweet. And by the way, I always use terms of endearment. So if I offend anyone by saying this out loud, but I said, sweetheart, you got nothing to be afraid of with me. I work for you. You know, like, but she had on some level unconsciously put me up on this pedestal, if you will. And she was like so nervous for sending this message. And I know she was like so relieved. I mean, I could hear it the voice on the other end when I said, it's like I'm not sweating any bullets over this, you know, it's so fascinating. She's projecting what she had with her father. Maybe the fear of being punished or fear of being reprimanded or a fear that you would not love her anymore or not like her anymore. You know, that's the basic fear we have around our parents is that, you know, they're not going to love us or they're going to withhold love on some level or in some way, shape, reform or punish us. And we project that onto, you know, men or whoever represents the masculine, if it's a father in print and whoever represents the feminine, if it's a mother in print, right? And so this is what we do, right? And so and it's wonderful that you gave her that experience because in that moment you helped her actually heal something. Yeah, you helped her heal like, oh, it's OK for me to advocate for myself and to share the truth about what I want and don't want. And yeah, it's safe for me to do that, right? Of course, it's only safe. I mean, it's it's I don't want to say it's only safe, but it's safe with you because you're a safe person, right? So we make sure that when you are choosing to share yourself transparently that you're choosing partners that are safe and that can hold space for you. Yeah, you know, it's interesting growing up. You know, I had a mother who would emotionally abandon us. And we've talked about this, you and I, both in our coaching together, but I've also talked about this in videos. And what's so fascinating to me, for example, I want to use this example because I think you can appreciate this. If I send out a text message that has a bit of meaning to it, if you will. And I don't get a response back in a relatively timely manner. And I don't mean, you know, like in 30 seconds. But I mean, you know, within a manner that seems customary, I can't tell you how I will go out of my mind thinking I made this person upset. Like, like, what did I do to upset them? And and I'm revisiting this message and I'm going like each word revisiting each word going, was it this word? Was it this? That's happening. Huh? How old are you when that's happening? Oh, that's I've never thought of it in that way. I'm I'm probably seven years old. I mean, roughly around that age. I mean, I'm guessing maybe because we didn't have text messaging back then. All seven year olds trying going out, trying to have trying to have adult relationships. I know you don't do the inner work to heal that stuff. This is what happens, right? Yeah. What we what is what we're doing, you know? And but the thing is, is to be and look, I don't necessarily know that that seven year old ever goes away fully. But, you know, I notice even within my own experience of partnership, there are moments where I feel like a little kid or I feel like something that's being activated, that's deeper than whatever is showing up in the present moment. Like this is a deep rooted thing that comes from some childhood experience. I have the key is to have awareness that you have this part of you, this wounded part of you that shows up in a particular moment. And it's and it's it's emerging. It's coming up to the surface so that you can address it with awareness, with love, with compassion and self empathy, so you can feel it. By the way, do you see that comment right there? What was the comment? No, you know what women go through when men go stuff. Of course it is. It's of course it isn't. And here's the thing, what I want to say about the ghosting or any type of emotional torture for that matter is that this is why it's so important to clear out your subconscious mind, to do the inner work, to heal what your beliefs are, because on some level, we are magnetizing to ourselves the people who will trigger these wounds, who will push these buttons. We will let you read this comment. Jonathan, it sounds like you are always chasing your mother's love. I know what that feels like. My mother was emotionally unstable. I would always hear her say, watch out for my nerves. Yeah, exactly. All we're ever saying, by the way, ladies and gentlemen, it's mommy, daddy, mommy, daddy, we're just waiting for our parents to finally show up. And if you don't do, and you've heard me say this before on your show, I believe, if we don't do the work to heal our childhood, our partner, our partners become our parents. Yeah, that's just how it works, right? So in those moments when you're feeling that anxiety, that's the little boy. And so with awareness, you can say, you know, you can give yourself compassion and self-soothing in that moment. OK, I've got one for you, though. If somebody who hasn't done the work and they were rather traumatized in their childhood and sometimes there's garden variety, traumatization and wounds, and then there's some severe physical and emotional abuse. And I don't want to go to that extreme, but just say strong garden variety wounds and traumas. What happens when that person is with an emotionally healthy person in relationship? Because I've observed that sometimes they sabotage this good relationship because they're they're really afraid to heal or move past it or do the I mean, there could be a variety. What are your thoughts on what I just shared? First of all, it's very rare to find an emotionally healthy person being magnetized as someone who has a lot of unhealed trauma. OK, OK, very, very rare because needed people attract wounded people. OK, well, if you are an emotionally healthy person and you happen to be maybe physically attracted or there's some opportunity to take someone who at first, you know, meeting seems, you know, relatively OK and healthy and well adjusted. But throughout the course of the relationship, you start to observe that there are there's a lot of unhealed wounds. Then, you know, one of two things happens. Usually the emotionally healthy person will bring awareness to the one who's struggling and saying, look, I'm seeing a lot of this thing. Are you aware of this? Do you see this? Like, is this, you know, and then, you know, if there isn't if there isn't a willingness on the person who is suffering to take with personal responsibility for their pain and to grow and to heal in the relationship, there's no way that relationship can last. And we'll stick around for that. If the person who if that person does decide to stick around, then I would say, well, then maybe there is some wounding there, too. They want to save them. They want to help you want to be OK. OK, got it. Got it. Use, you know. So when you you say when you use the term emotionally healthy, you know, I interpret that as someone who's grounded, well adjusted, self aware, who's done their work, who understands how healthy what healthy love feels like and how it should should unfold in a in a balanced partnership. So hey, I want to read you something I wrote and I want your perspective on it. And then we're going to go on to another subject. So I wrote down throughout history, providing protecting was a man's primary role due to this survival and defending against war. And a woman's role was predominantly caretaking for the man and caretaking for the children. Yes. And and this is throughout history. And and men and women were trained at those jobs, like from a very early age, at a very young age, young boys had to learn how to, you know, to survive and to fight. And women were taught to nurture. I'm talking, you know, hundreds, if not thousands of years ago. But I said today we're in a different kind of survival and war or a different kind of survival and war it's going on is going on. It's one at a deep emotional level, the inner world. And sadly, young boys and girls are not trained to actually, for lack, I'm going to use the word fight only in the context of survival and war, but to really develop the skills to fight the emotional wars we're dealing with. What I'm basically saying is we're, I mean, we're blessed here in the United States to have relatively peacetime, so to speak, unlike other parts of the world. But we're in an emotional war is kind of the gist of that. Does that feel true? Yeah, I think we are. I think we are because I think as a species, we have unmet needs. And as we have unmet needs, we'll be at war with ourselves and at war with each other, you know, until we learn what our needs are and how to advocate for them and how to ask for support and getting them met and put structures in place that allow us to get our needs met until we learn to live consciously in a way that nurtures our well-being and that, you know, we can have a big philosophical conversation about what that looks like in the world, you know, whether it's, you know, being more attuned with nature and, you know, learning more ways to heal yourself and, you know, taking time, you know, doing only doing work that brings you joy. And, you know, there's so many different ways in which we can adopt a more holistic way of living that will allow us to be less at war with ourselves and less at war with each other. Right. And I mean, there's so much that can be said about this. But if we're looking at this through the lens of, you know, personal relationships and loving partnership, you know, we go to war with our partners because we want to have those needs met. And we don't know how to ask to, we don't know what the needs are and we don't know how to ask, right? And we don't know what the needs are because we have, as you said, you know, very perfectly just earlier, we haven't been trained to identify. We haven't been trained to betray ourselves. We've been trained to say, you know, no, you don't want that. You want this instead. Or you're not allowed to have that. You're supposed to do this instead, you know, or, you know, don't feel that feel this instead, right? We've been trained to betray ourselves. So now what I'm an adult and I have no idea who I am and what I need and what makes me happy. And I'm I'm going to my relationship of going to my partner and saying, you know, you're supposed to help me figure this out. You're you're supposed to help help me find my happiness or my happily ever after or whatever it is you're after. Yeah. So it makes sense. And this is why our relationships. If I could go back in time, I would have requested, hey, look, forget, you know, trigonometry or algebra or social science or, you know, this, you know what we needed every day, two to three hours of therapy. I mean, like group therapy in our classroom, where we practice what we're going to talk about next. Well, it would have been great to actually do this at a very young age. And I mean, and habitually not something, oh, you just take one class of pottery and you're done, you know, with it. It's like, no, this this would have been so valuable to learn this at a very young age, preferably with parents who also adopted and encouraged it at home. So I pulled up everyone a book called Nonviolent Communication by Marshall Rosenberg. OK. And by the way, a link below to all the books I recommend under Jonathan recommend books, Sabrina, you are a master at NBC for, you know, in my book, because I come to you all the time for NBC language. By the way, I think it should have been titled Compassionate Communication, not Nonviolent, but for those who are not familiar with NBC, Nonviolent Communication, could you give us the four one one and also kind of demonstrate it for us? Sure. I also refer to it as Compassionate Communication, because it's about it's about fostering compassion for self and others. The key ingredient to Compassionate Communication is empathy, right? So NBC Nonviolent Communication is really centered around under the basic principles that all human beings have the same fundamental needs. OK. We have there's a universal list of needs that we all have, the need for belonging, the need for connection, the need for communication, the need for shelter, for peace, for physical touch, for prosody, as I know, that's a big one. One of my big ones. Right. And the need the need for autonomy, I get there's a big thumbs up there. And so, yeah, the need for autonomy, which is a huge one. You know, we all have these universal needs and we're not aware of what these needs are. And most all of human behavior is an attempt to meet one of these needs. So when we get our own behavior and we look at the behavior of other people, which can be very helpful to look at the behavior of other people through the lens of, you know, compassionate communication, saying, OK, if all human behavior is an attempt to meet a need, then what need is this person trying to meet by doing what they did? Right. Like for for the example of the woman who was ghosted, right? Whoever did you that is a strategy that they are using to meet a need that they have. And that could be a need for safety. It could be a need for, you know, self care. It can be a need for my sense of safety. Are you talking about the person who does the ghosting? The person who does the ghosting, 100 percent. Well, isn't. And I know that I know this might be a little triggering. But when we look at the all human behavior is an attempt to meet a need, it allows us to have compassion for people who do things that are kind of not nice, right? Like, why would you do that? There if if you see a person is doing that, it's because they're trying to meet a need. That's all that's ever happening. If OK, so my behavior is about meeting my fundamental needs. Then all I need to do is look at the strategies I have in place to get my needs met to see which ones are constructive and which ones are destructive. And I'm not going to I'm not challenging you, but I want to I want to unpack this one a little bit. Ghosting, at least in the times I had listened before I became a somewhat more conscious person than I am today. There have been times where I, for lack of a better word, ghosted someone. In other words, I didn't call them back up for a date or I didn't. You know, and and most of it was fear. Yeah, fear of the reaction. So so then my fear of how they would react or my fear to even attempt to have the conversation. Yeah, what need was I meeting in that moment? That's the part I'm curious about. What what need was I trying to meet? You were trying to meet your own need for safety. You were you ghosted that person to self save. Oh, OK. Wait, wait, wait, let me let me sit with that for a second. My need for safety, even though they are most likely aren't going to come over and beat me over the head with a. Well, I don't know these days that could happen. So that person would ghost you is because they're avoiding conflict. They don't want to bear the wrath of the rejection. Well, however, that person is going to feel if they hurt them. Right. I mean, I know this from my own experiences. You know, it was always terrifying to me, the idea of hurting another person. The idea of not being able to meet them in love or not being able to to continue on in the relationship or having to break up with someone or having to, you know, the idea of hurting another human being kept to me in relationships longer than I should have been. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's been a pattern in my life. And and so what need was I trying to meet by staying by betraying myself? Right. I was trying to meet my own need for safety and protection because I was afraid of conflict, because in my childhood conflict meant, you know, life or death, it was a matter of right. And so this is why I, you know, this is the beautiful part about NBC is that it allows us to distill all of our choices down to is this helping me get my needs met? Is it not helping me get my needs met? OK, either is or it isn't. And if you look at all human behavior as an attempt to meet a need, then now all of a sudden we have less less assholes in the world. We have less narcissists in the world. We have less jerks in the world and less monsters in the world. You know, every inside every monster is a child with unmet needs. Is is maybe the core need of is it safety? Is that like probably the number one need is to feel some level of safety? OK, really about being in an emotional war. This is what we're all at war with, like how they don't feel safe, whether it's we don't make enough money or we were afraid of housing or we're afraid of sickness or we're afraid of, you know, government or we're afraid of war or we're afraid of being abandoned or we're afraid of of being betrayed or being lied to or, you know, being ending up with nothing. You know, this is our culture, right? And that's what our entire culture is designed to have us operate in ways that protect us, that keep us safe from these deeper fears. Right. Well, all of human behavior is a strategy to keep ourselves safe. Got it. Hey, Sabrina, first off, I want to open it up to questions. Folks, if you have a question for Sabrina or myself, write the word question in the chat box and then post the question there after or you can purchase a super sticker, super chat. All the monies from the super sticker, super chat goes to a scholarship fund in the name of my son, Connor Asley. That's a picture of him back there with his brother. He's my son who passed away over five years ago in his honor. We donate to causes like the Hoffman process in Insight Institute and just scholarships to coaching. So hit that little dollar sign. Let's get some love going for Connor today. So, Sabrina, we have a personal question for you. What was the one or more example that drove you to your line of work? What was one or more example of what drove you to your work? I love this question. I mean, I was very broken inside. You know, I was very, very unhappy and I did all the things. You know, I mean, I grew up with a lot of sadness and tragedy in my household as a child. And I developed a lot of behavioral disorders, if you will. You know, examples, I can be specific like eating disorder and, you know, trouble with alcohol addiction, things like that. And just not able to sit with my own feelings. I was always looking for a way out of pain. I didn't know how to cope with my emotions. And those that's what all those behaviors are. We're talking about looking at human behavior through the lens of, you know, what need are you trying to meet? And I was trying to keep myself safe. I was trying to cope with my fear, my pain, my grief. And, you know, I struggled with trying to maintain composure, even though I had all of this inner turmoil for a long time. You know, and I had a whole career in the corporate world successful. You know, I had my own business. I have been an entrepreneur, you know, since I can't remember when in my early 20s. So, you know, I had success in the corporate world and I got to a breaking point where I hit this emotional bottom, you know, I hit this real emotional bottom where I just couldn't, I couldn't continue. You know, I just couldn't fake it anymore. I couldn't pretend like I had it all together and things started to fall apart for me because sooner or later, the body will always present its bill and says, OK, you know, you have to pay up. Well, there has to be a reckoning for all of the emotions that you are suppressing, right? And I had my foot sort of in and out of spiritual community, you know, throughout the better part of my young adult life. And it wasn't until I hit that bottom that I made a decision to just immerse myself in self-healing because, you know, you get to a place where you realize, OK, well, I'm making money, I'm successful, I'm doing all the things and I'm still not free. I'm not fulfilled and I'm not free, which is ultimately what we want. Is we want to be liberated from our pain and our suffering and we think they make enough money or I have the relationships or I have the things that I need that all will be well inside. And that's not true until we become well inside, right? For me, I had to get well inside in order to have all those things and have the things that I can enjoy and feel, you know, at peace with. So my was a long journey. I mean, it's been a long road. I've been doing this work for two decades now. So, you know, for me, once I immersed myself in spiritual community and started to really heal myself, I had so many different opportunities to realize, you know, what I what what was going on and and contextualize my experience and so much personal freedom that all I wanted to do was shout it from the mountaintops. So. Oh, well, kind of not too unsimilar to mine. I feel as though what happens for those that for those of us that get into this type of work and certainly do it from a from like from a coaching perspective is we've had a humbling or a humbling event or a series of humbling events. And I think it's in those moments when we're looking into the abyss and we don't see our reflection. That's like the time to go, wait a minute, I want to see myself. So I'm going to go do something about it. Hence, you know, I say, personal development, self-help, spiritual work and therapy and that sort of thing. We've got another question. We've got questions coming up, Sabrina. So let's just find a way. All right, let's do it. Dandy says, I met and had a few dates with a man. We spent the night together. I can't understand why he does not pick up the phone and call me, but rather text. It makes me distrust him. Yeah. OK, NBC. So, I mean, the way I would communicate this I mean, there's a lot I want to say about that, you know, I think that perhaps there may have been an opportunity to establish trust before entering into an intimate relationship with this person. You know, I think that trust needs to be there because if it's not there before we make that decision, then post intimate connection, post intimacy, sex, if you will, it'll just amplify whatever insecurity you might already be feeling or whatever distrust is, is hasn't been established. So that's number one. The way that I would communicate this in a nonviolent way, if you care about this person and like this person and want to entertain a relationship is, you know, is to just share how you feel. You're right. Like when you, you know, send me text messages, I feel unimportant. I feel dismissed. I feel small. I feel didn't counted. Yeah, you know, what the feeling is, is, you know, not important, right? She doesn't feel important. I'm assuming, right? Like if I, if I was in your shoes and I had just been intimate with someone and they won't pick up the phone to call me, I would, I would be second guessing whether or not this person is genuinely interested in pursuing a relationship. Right. If they're, if the messaging, when you send me a text message, I feel unfulfilled, right? I feel dismissed and discounted because I have a need for connection and intimacy. The need to come back and say, but I am connecting with you. I'm connecting with you via text. Right. I'm just speaking of the retort. I understand, but that's insufficient. That's not meeting her need. OK, OK, the way that you would communicate this is I when you send me a text message, I feel insert whatever the feeling is. You know, I'm giving some suggestions based on what I imagine might be her experience and because I have a need for insert the need, whatever the need is, the need is for connection. It's for communication. It's for intimacies for depth. Maybe she has a need for depth or she has a need for security and for trust, right? I have a need for reassurance, right? Well, we have sex with someone for the first time. We need reassurance that everything's good, right? Everything's OK, you know, where you're not pulling away from me, right? And so when, especially when we've been, we've made ourselves vulnerable, we want that security and that reassurance. Would you be willing to support me in getting my needs met? So before her person has a chance to retort, you would say, would you be willing to support me in getting this need met? And if the guy says no answer, if he doesn't want to help you, get your needs met, you don't have a relationship, right? And if he's willing to support you and repeat that again, repeat that again. If he's not willing to support you in getting your needs met, you don't have a relationship. You will never have a relationship. OK, well, thank you for that one, Sabrina. We got another one from Bonnie. It's almost in the same lines. Is it normal for a man to skip a few days between calls or texts after a coffee day? We only met 11 days ago. We have a second date on Saturday and we are we are in our late 60s. Got any thought? I do. I don't think that there is a standard formula for this. This is not about how many days it's been. It's not about, you know, what's normal, what's not normal. It's always about how it feels. And if you've had a second date and there's a part of you that wants more connection, needs more communication, there's obviously what is the need here? Always explore what is the need, right? Instead of instead of looking at what is that person doing and is this normal? And how do I adjust to what that person is doing to make it normal so that I don't seem like a crazy person or I don't seem needy or I don't seem like I'm, you know, asking for too much or whatever the the the evaluation of the diagnosis is, you know, it's always about looking at your own feelings. Our feelings are valid. If you feel like you would like more communication or you would like more interaction with this person, you know, even if there's only been two dates, that's the thing I want to. Well, Sabrina, I mean, in this case, it's just one date. There's a second date plan. You know, to some degree in the dating realm, particularly that critical early stage where really there's little to no trust built. There's very little familiarity. There's a very little rapport. I mean, there might be a little bit from a chemical perspective of chemistry or attraction, but it's kind of difficult. And I'm just I'm saying this as a dating coach, you know, because as you said earlier, there are no norms here. There's no real guideline to go by and say, you know, A plus B plus C plus D equals, you know, don't play that game. There are no norms. So so if you would like so you've had a date with someone and you'd like to have some interaction, it's OK to say, hey, I'd like to have some interaction before the next time I see you. Absolutely. See, the fear is always that we're going to repel that person. Yes, there is always that we don't want to show. We don't want to show our feathers. You know, we don't want to expose ourselves too much because that might run away, they might lose interest, they might, you know, and this fear doesn't it comes from early childhood. Right. If I I'm not allowed to have my needs met. If I say too much, ask for too much, you know, want too much or do the wrong thing or whatever, love will be withheld from me. Right. This is what we learn in childhood. And this is how it shows up in our dating life. If I ask for too much, if I seem too much this or if I, you know, if I make too many demands or if I'm, you know, to show a show like I'm too needy or too anxious, then I will love will be withheld from me. We project this. We talked about projection earlier. We project our unmet needs from childhood on to whoever happens to be in the line of fire today. It could be this guy you're dating and tomorrow it can be your boyfriend or your husband or whoever it is. We project these. These are wounds that are being projected. If you are self aware, self loving, self affirming and centered in your own value and your own self worth and you ask someone, hey, you know, I'd love to chat again before we see each other. You know, I had such a good time. I'd love to connect more. Are you available between now and our next date? And they, you know, disappear. You know, there's your answer. Thank you for telling me, right? Thank you for saving my time for showing me who you are. You know, it's interesting on a side note. We've got a couple of questions. By the way, really quickly, if anyone wants to join the hot seat with Sabrina and I put a link there. So if you want to join us live and speak to Sabrina, click that link and join us. So you know what occurs to me? This happens even the minute you swipe with somebody in the dating world or you email someone in the dating world and then there's this space before response and sometimes it could be days, you know, and it's fascinating to me from a human behavior perspective, how you're not you haven't even communicated with this person, you've only sent out a message, an inquiry. Yeah. But it goes into some kind of abyss. Avoid for a moment, you know, until they decide to respond back. Yeah. We are in unprecedented unprecedented times from a human mating perspective because you can make a request and never get it's like asking someone, you know, hey, can I buy you a drink and they're stone cold, you know, like right face to face and they're stone cold, turn the other way. I mean, it's it can feel that way. We're in unprecedented times because of technology. And I think my point is, OK, now I have a point. It's affecting us emotionally is what I'm really getting at. Well, I just hold on a second now and I don't want to argue with you. I don't. Yes, I think the technology part is a different way in which experiencing this fear that's been around for thousands of years can show. Yes. Right. So it's just one more way in which it can be triggered. Right. I think we've all as a species, part of our karmic path and in the experience of learning to be human and unlearning that we're that we are not the values that were conditioned in us in childhood and that we're whole, perfect and complete and actually made of love, which is what we're here to really learn, you know, in that process. It's about understanding that part of this human experience is experiencing fear and rejection and, you know, a lack of safety, a lack of connection and intimacy. Right. For whatever reason, throughout the generations, whether it was, you know, in our grandparents time, perhaps it was, you know, because it wasn't appropriate or there were certain things you didn't do. You know, when you look at our generation, you know, prior to technology, we could have experienced this fear in other ways, you know, like maybe people just don't call you back. Remember the days of like just dialing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Smell and nobody calls you back. Like, you know, we've been experiencing the fear of rejection for millennia is what I'm trying to say, you know, it's okay. Got it. Well, it just it just it puts us in now that we have technology, you can just kind of throw things out there and nothing ever comes back. But that's not really new. You know, okay. Well, I think we're more sensitive to it because of the frequency then, you know, whereas in the past, it might be the occasional moment. Now it's almost a bombardment. What I would say, what I will say is because of technology, we have access to so many more people and we have access to so many more opportunities for stimulation and so many more options to distract us, you know. And, you know, there's always somebody hotter or somebody cooler or somebody nicer or somebody more suitable or, you know, this idea that there's this work as a society because of the media, we're conditioned to look ahead and look into the future or look for something better, more, faster, whatever. And so because of this, this, this, you know, culture that we live in, we're more likely to, you know, not invest as much time in each other or not be as got it. I'm full of women, you know, and not, you know, be more flighty and more flaky because we just can't commit, right? Because there's just too much, there's too much overstimulation. So when you can't choose, it's kind of like, does that make sense? You know, it totally makes sense from that perspective. I think technology has definitely made things more challenging. We've got Julie in the house and she says, is it a good idea to let the guy talk about his past traumatic relationship? Is this helping him? If I listen, I love this question. This is such a good question, Julia. You don't have enough time tonight to really fully unpack it. However, give it a shot, Sabrina. You know, this is where I will say that if a person really needs to talk about their past trauma, they're probably not ready to explore something new, you know, it and it's all this is an energetic thing. You can talk about, you know, what happened or from the context of like in my past relationship, this happened and this is what I learned about myself or this is what I learned because of my past relationship. Or, you know, this is how, you know, what my experience was and how I grew from it. You know, now we're talking right now. We're hearing, OK, this person is being transparent about what they've been through and it sounds like they have learned the lesson. They've integrated the lesson. There's some level of emotional maturity that's taking place because of their past experience. If a person just needs someone to listen and vent and hold space for them to talk about their pain, then, you know, I are a therapist, I are a therapist. You know, you know, it's not appropriate to do that in the early stages of dating, right? And then you become the healer and the helper and the savior. And, you know, women, we've all been there, right? Where we want to help, you know, heal someone, help save someone from their wounds and I think men do this too, right? So just making sure that that's not the case. Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I haven't talked to you about this. And by the way, folks, Sabrina is my coach, so I go to her for for a couple different areas of my life, both from a from a manifestation perspective, but also clearing up all the garbage in my head that's blocking what I want to get in my life. So an interesting observation. Yes. So most everyone knows that I was in a significant relationship with someone that actually ended about seven and a half months ago. Her name is Marie. And I just realized that I probably think about her every day. Now, not I think about her from a longing perspective or I'd like her back. That's not what comes up. What's interesting is I process the relationship and some of the facets of the relationship, in other words, particularly in my both in my in the early stages, how I changed in the relationship, all these different things. I'm unpacking my own experience, if you will. Yeah. What that causes, though, for me to think about her because I'm unpacking me, but it causes me to think about her. And it occurred to me that I should let's like go one day without thinking about her. You see if I can go two days. But that what that means is then I won't be processing. You know, like you follow where I'm going here. Yeah, I think that you're I listen. I think that what you're doing is grieving the version of you that used to be in that relationship. OK. And that's OK. You know, it's OK to associate yourself with that relationship because that relationship actually brought out certain parts of you. And I'm sure you missed some of those parts, right? The part of you that was in love or the part of you that was having fun or the part, you know what I mean? So this is all you miss those aspects of you that that relationship activated. Relationships, that's what they do. They activate parts of us that were are not necessarily available and we're not in partnership. So we and then we miss that version of ourselves and we associate that version of ourselves with that person, right? But I'm looking at how I can improve like what. So I revisit the relationship in areas of how can I do things better? How can I do things differently? How can I, you know, that's OK. OK. That's very. And the more you do that, by the way, the less you'll personalize it and make it about Marie and the more you focus on the fact of like, how can I be a better partner? Yeah, it's about me. It's not about her. It's about how can I make better choices? How can I spot differences in relationship? How can I show up as a better human being? But what happens is when I'm thinking about this, I think of she's in that. By the way, I do this with all my ex relationships, even my ex-wife, to some degree. I'm I'm thinking constantly looking at how can I be a better person? Yeah, good. So OK, we're getting close to the end here. So it has been an hour. I know it's been 50 minutes. So one of the things we talked about, one of the notes was blocking out love. The subconscious fear takes over when we feel immediately connected and repelled. So I title this the shocking reason. I'm kind of putting you on the spot here. Yeah. What is the shocking reason? Shocking for people to realize that they have all these unconscious beliefs that are going to get triggered when they find love. It can be shocking that to this idea that you finally get what you want. And now there is all of this other unresolved, unhealed part of you that will show up and repel, you know, find ways out, find reasons not to be in the relationship, find fault with your partner, project your unresolved ones onto your partner and possibly destroy a healthy, sustainable, long term love, which is something that we deeply desire. Right. And so this is it can be shocking to, you know, sometimes, especially if once you start doing inner work and you start like you're doing your processing versions of yourself and your relationship going, how can I be better? How can I be better? I'm sure, along with that thinking process is, you know, if I had done, if I knew then, right, what I know now, you know, I could have done this or I could have said this or I could have said that. Correct. And so that's part of of, you know, what we're here to discover. And that's actually it's not a surprise. Go ahead. I'm sorry to interrupt on this one. I don't do that piece. I don't I have not once said, oh, I wish I gone back and said something different because I know for the first time in my life, I showed up as fully present as I could that who that person was a year and a half ago. I think I'm going to challenge you on that. I'm going to challenge you on that and believe that you I believe that you believe that you were fully present, but I know that there were red flies. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. Let me make clear. What I mean to say was I don't go back and try to know. That's not what let me be clear. I don't revisit things in my head going, oh, I wished I did different in the sense of to convince this person, you know, like I recognize I had to learn. I had to go through this experience to learn what I need to learn. I mean, I, you know, I don't go back and wishing it was different is what I'm trying to say. But you see those missed opportunities for truth, for boundaries, for for awareness, you see those missed opportunities. And so this is the big shocker, right? You can create a loving partnership. Anybody can create loving partnership if they take personal responsibility for their unresolved wounds, if they're unresolved fears around love, whatever you have inside of you that is blocking you from having more love, from being more love, from being more loving, you know, whatever is is is is is within you to to allow yourself to surrender into love and to trust yourself, right? To feel safe within your own self, to be able to love your own self fully. That is what you can do to help you have a partnership and find loving partnership. By the way, someone just said, I love how Sabrina calls him out on his stuff. Well, that's what a coach is supposed to do. Oh, yeah. And I always I hope I hope you feel that I always do it with love. Oh, my God. No, you know, I'm going to tell you how I was offended by it. And I know I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. No, I appreciate that. Well, I wanted to be clear because I don't want to also recognize I could be gaslighting myself by what I said and what I meant. And again, this is critically important. I recognize that I could have done a lot of things differently. But I don't really actively think today. Oh, I really recognize I wouldn't have gotten the lessons if I didn't experience it. Like, I really am so fucking grateful for the awareness, even though, you know, like it's the irony in all this is part of what I teach is discernment. Yeah, but that's why you keep learning it. Yeah, so you can teach it. Yeah, this is by the way, folks, doing this work is not for the faint of heart. I mean, being introspective, because that's really what we're talking about is introspection, you know, really examining yourself on almost a granular level. I mean, I'm I'm probably unique because God has blessed me with the time to explore me. Yeah, very few people really get the time to explore who they are as a person. I don't think God, the blessing you has anything to do with it. Jonathan, on the sentiment, you created a life that allows you to have the time to do the things that you really love to do, because that's what you feel driven by. And that's what we all do. We're all we're everybody is always doing whatever they can to get their needs met, whether we are aware of it or not aware of it. We put things in place to ensure we create a life that works for us. And, you know, even if you're living a life that on some level is full of complaints or full of malaise or full of disease or full of whatever, you know, on some level, that's meeting a need, right? So that's everyone's job. And what you're saying is true. It's not easy work to sit and get honest with yourself and explore. You know, why have I created this life? Why do I make it impossible to date me or to be in love or to be in long standing relationship? Why is it so hard for me? Right? What is it about me that co-creates this reality over and over and over again? It must be serving a need on some level, right? And of course it is. We just have to understand what that need is so we can find a more constructive way to meet it. Yeah. Lighthouse says that's the same with everything in life. You wouldn't have learned something if you didn't go through something else. Exactly. You know, and grow, you know, the sad piece. I don't want to I'm going to end on this note. But I and so I want you to find a turnaround with what I'm about to share is. And I know you're not prepared for it. So, you know, sadly, we have a significant percentage of population that is in victim consciousness. In other words, the things we're talking about, for lack of a better word, aren't their fault, isn't their responsibility. It's someone else's fault. I know you don't subscribe to victim consciousness. I don't subscribe to it. You know, a long time ago when I was in deep, deeply mired in pain and suffering, I wanted this was happening to me. And then it was when I had my big, you know, a moment of I want to call it awakening, but moment of truth, of self-truth, of really looking at the truth of myself, because I had to, you know, I wanted to get well, right? That that's when everything shifted. And so I want to say for anyone who wants to come out of victim consciousness and wants to be liberated from the pain of feeling like you're trapped in your circumstances, this is going to take some courage and some willingness on your part is to really look at what it is about you that you need to shift and change, what are some of the actions you need to take in order to have a different life, in order to have a different outcome, right? And looking at it from like just being willing to take personal responsibility for the quality of your life, for the quality of your relationships, the quality of your health, you know, if there's something that you don't like, if you don't like it, change it, right? If you're if you're if you're not changing and you're choosing it ultimately, right? And so it's very important that we see that like we're talking about victim consciousness and this is normal. We feel victimized because as children, we're completely dependent on our parents. Yeah, we feel like whatever they say, it goes. And we never we never evolve from that way of operating until life gets hard enough and bad enough for us to say, you know what? I want this to be over. I want this to shift. I want to move into a different way of thinking, a new paradigm of consciousness. I am going to take personal responsibility for the quality of my life, whatever that looks like, whether it's, you know, getting healthy, getting well, getting fit, you know, finding love, finding love within yourself. It's always about the relationship we have with ourselves first, as you and I talk about. Well, on that note, we're going to be wrapping up, folks. If you'd like to connect with Sabrina, I'll be putting Sabrina's website and how to connect with her in the first in the show notes. So if you'd like to connect with Sabrina, she is an amazing coach. She's going to be developing a YouTube channel, right? Yes. Yes. OK, so you can follow her work where you can get a lot of great content. Maybe I'll put the link to your YouTube channel. We'll drive some traffic there. How does that sound? It's wonderful. Yes. OK, Sabrina, thanks for sharing with us the shocking reason human beings do the crazy things we do. I appreciate it. There's hope. Yeah, there's hope. There is hope. Can I give you a big, gigantic job and bear hug? Thank you so much. I'm hugging you back. Lots of love. It's always great to be here. Thank you for your wonderful questions and your generosity. I appreciate it. And thank you for everyone who asked a question. I'm giving you a big hug as well. Everybody, go out and make it a great day. Have a wonderful evening. We'll see you later. Bye bye now. Bye bye.