 We'll be wired up and this is to take the case, in case your stops or something. Sure. You can get that and we'll provide a transcript for you. I've been warned. Marlon, thank you very much. Now it's fishing. I just got back from Yellowstone and escaped the fires. As you say, you don't look singed to bed. No, I didn't get singed to bed. I hope some of the people out there don't keep singing you all. Well, this morning there's an entirely different story in the post for the first time. They're now citing that it doesn't look as bad as it's been made to look in all these times and that even in some places, I was amazed, well, they've got snow now which slowed things down. Yeah, it snowed Saturday night. But he said that the vegetation and so forth is actually already beginning to grow in some of the blacked out spaces. I know you take the rose of you of things. Close up, it doesn't look that way to me. Well, no, I imagine it must look pretty horrible, but I think this was a surprise to me and there, that particular paper doing this. Can I do a follow on that issue? Because there seems to be an argument that this is either going to be a waterloo for the environmentalists who have always argued against selective burning and for let it burn, or it's going to be a waterloo for the administration which didn't move perhaps fast enough. Well, we think we got into it very fast, but we have, and as you know, I just sent Don Hodel and Gling and Taft from the Defense Department out there and they're reporting to me this afternoon on that. But already steps have been made to increase the amount of personnel and plus that thing of accepting Canada's offer to make men and equipment available. So I think we're doing all that we can do. I must say, I was surprised. I did not know there was a policy in the parks of not putting out the fires. That preceded us and I was very surprised and when Don Hodel went out there the first time. He informed them that no, we were going to fight the fires. So you do think that the park service perhaps was traveling on a policy that you wouldn't have agreed with had you known it was in effect? I think I would have disagreed, yes. Along another line of disagreement, currently the news before I get on to a couple of other more basic questions. How do you feel about Vice President Bush's change of heart on the minimum wage? I know you have opposed a minimum wage increase. I've long felt the general minimum wage because every time it's happened there has been an increase in unemployment. But no, I've long felt and I think he and I are in agreement. And that is that, yes, at the present low rate there could be some increase because of the inflation that has taken place. But not the figures that were being talked because we don't want to make it to such a point that it would add to unemployment when we're going the other way. And I would hesitate to suggest one right now. We haven't specified one, talked in maybe some general terms about a range of that. But with this, what we would like accompanying such an increase would be the thing we've asked for and we've been refused so far by Congress. And that is a lower, what you might say, as a training minimum wage. For the minimum wage. That's right, but some so that you could take people in that are actually being to give them training and so forth and that at present rates I'm sure the employers won't do it. One last news type question on the textile bill. Will you veto the textile bill? I am very much of a mind that the way it appears and what we're seeing now on the Hill, yes, that it is purely protectionist and must be vetoed. Going on, in your looking forward to retirement so to speak what would you regard as your greatest triumph in economic policy in the past seven or eight years? What in the economic policy? Something that I believed for a great share of my life and that was the tax policies of the government as they had been extreme progressiveness and so forth were inimical to recovery and to economic progress and the fact that I believe our tax cuts and reforms are the very base of what has brought about this economic recovery which we understand is now the longest in the history of the country and the most successful. You get the tax changes, the principle cut up. I think the tax situation, it was one that was, there was no incentive provided at all. The incentives for example in the upper brackets were incentives to find tax dodges and so forth and the result has been we're getting more revenue now then at the lower rates than we were getting at the higher rates. From the higher bracket tax parents. In fact back in my days when I never had conceived of an idea that I might ever be in public life or public office I always however believed in helping and supporting the causes I believed in and as I've often said in Hollywood if you don't sing or dance you wind up as an after-dinner speaker. So I was out on the mashed potato circuit a great deal and did my own speeches and chose my own subjects and I was denouncing the tax structure for many years. Along that line on the flip side of that question what would you regard as your greatest disappointment in the economic policy area? That we still have not been able to get the constitutional amendment to a balanced budget and to get the president what 43 governors have and that is the line item veto. I had it as a governor of California I used it 943 times it was never overridden once and for a president to not have that it just is a denial of a power that I think could be one of the most helpful things in getting back to a balanced budget. If you were, if there were no 25th amendment and you were about to enter your third term many would like that I'm sure. What would be the number one item on your agenda economically speaking? Would it be that issue? That would be pretty high and to continue of course the things that we've already put in place. Any other specific economic policy you would put high on that agenda? Well yes there are things for example the grace commission did such a wonderful job and you know that was a follow-up to something that I had tried when I first became governor of California and for these some 250 top executives to volunteer their time and the financing of their work. They didn't cost the government a penny. They raised 76 million dollars to finance what they did. Well we have implemented several hundred of their recommendations but a great many more remain not in place because they require legislation and that would be a top target to get the legislation for more of those things. Given the problems you've had with Congress in these areas do you think any president can ever affect the kind of change that you're talking about? Fundamental institutional change without a real either a change in the party leadership in that body or fundamental reform. Well there's one of the things that I think must take place is party leadership. For example for over half a century there have only been four years in which the Democrats did not have well I was going to say not wrong for only four years that they didn't have the house and then I was overlooking the six years that I had at least one house the Senate we couldn't have achieved anything that we've achieved if we hadn't had that one house and I think a large part of this is due to a correction that should be made in the Constitution and that is that every ten years we reapportion the districts to make sure that they can remain supposedly consistent with the interests of that particular area and the people in that area well for a half a century or more the other party has been in charge of doing that reapportioning and it has been a half a century of gerrymandering as was evidenced in the last election in California when more people in California voted for Republican congressional candidates than the Democrats had voting for theirs but the Democrats elected more because of the way the districts have been gerrymandering You think this explains the difference between the tenancy of the public to vote Republican in national elections and yet to elect Democratic Congresses? Well I suppose there are some people remember I was a Democrat was Yes sir and I didn't think it was too bad that Eisenhower at that time had a Democratic Congress but I've come to see that it isn't what so many of us just kind of assumed that it was part of the checks and balances of government Well if it was then how come when the Democrats had presidents they also had Democratic Congresses if it was a part of the checks and balances then we should have had Republican Congresses so I've come to recognize that and well I learned an awful lot as governor because seven of my eight years as governor I had a Democratic legislature in both houses Do you think or I should put this by what do you think is the most important reason the American people irrespective of their party should elect George Bush this fall What would be your number one reason to give to the electorate to make that choice? Well because very obviously and he's made it very obvious this would continue the things that have brought about the recovery that have reversed the situation we found when we came here in 1981 not only in national security as have been reversed but also in the economy and the well a higher percentage of the potential workforce in America is employed today than ever in our history things of this kind The employment ratio Yes And it is very obvious that Mr. Bush's opponent would take us back to that big government philosophy that government has the answer to all the problems You know sometimes I mean bin one I'd like to quote to him I think it was Roosevelt that made a statement once that belongs on our side of the ticket now and that is he said if the people of this country do not have the capacity for self-government then where among them do we find that little elite that can not only run their own lives but run everybody else's well that's he would that was describing what this present philosophy in the other side is that government must make the decisions and so forth well our constitution itself the thing that makes it different from virtually every constitution in the world is all those other constitutions are documents in which the government tells the people of those countries what they can do ours is we the people that our document says we're telling government what it can do Yes Governor DeConcus argues that even President Reagan has had to sign a few tax increases in the last few years Why do you think or why would you argue that President Bush's commitment to know new taxes will be any stronger than what this administration has been able to withstand No I believe he's going to continue It's true that when when we got in there there were some things that were handed to us once the Ways and Means Committee stopped You're referring to the early tax principle Yes, that we hadn't asked for Yes And there had to be some minor changes there But the basic philosophy is I learned this 1200 years ago from a fellow in Egypt named Ibn Khaldun Yes sir You said at the beginning of the empire the rates were low and the revenues were great At the end of the empire the rates were great and the revenue was low I've noticed throughout most of my life that tax cuts have been followed by increases in revenue This happened when Coolidge was doing it after World War I It happened the only reduction since the advent of the income tax in 1913 The only reduction the Democrats have ever been responsible for was John F. Kennedy's and his cut his tax program was very similar to what we ourselves implemented and when he did it the revenues were higher Now the Republicans have been responsible for some 14 reductions of the income tax Yes sir, conservatives argue that the Reagan Revolution those who think it has been a real revolution are worried that it's fragile enough so that a Democrat could quickly repeal most of it Do you share that concern? Well if they've got that power and they believe in that philosophy of theirs you have to worry about what would happen to it Do the people have a full understanding yet of what has brought about this recovery this reduction of inflation a reduction of unemployment 17.5 million new jobs created and contrary to again what the Democratic candidate says about 65% of those jobs are above the median income they are not little menial jobs out here Why do you suppose they have been so successful in keeping the American people off balance about the economy You have the situation now where I think a record number have competence in their own personal economic future but over half of them say they want a change in economic policy Why do you suppose there is that kind of schizophrenia? Well I'm wondering what they're talking about with a change in economic policy and I'm sure that maybe part of it is a fear of the future because if you look back for a half a century every several years we had a recession after that great depression and maybe this is what the people are worrying about in the very fact that they keep being reminded by the pessimists that it's been X number of years since the last recession maybe they're just fearful but if you pin them down on their own situation they feel fine about it Do you think the media have been partly responsible for this kind of negative view of the economy that seems to pervade the public thought today? You ask a question In spades except for a few journalists like a man named Brooks I think there have been distortions but the other thing I've noticed is when I go out and make a speech and talk about some of these facts and figures then for example I look at myself on TV and there I am coming out standing up there and I say a few inconsequential things I usually do about opening a speech and then suddenly you still see me talking but you don't hear me you hear a voice over telling you what I said and they miss all the points that have to do or that have any importance How do you keep your sense of humor in the face of that? Well sometimes I get mad but you know you have a you couldn't, well Lincoln said it when people were criticizing him for telling jokes and so forth and Lincoln said I couldn't perform the duties of this position for 15 minutes if I couldn't laugh Thank you Mr. President, you're very kind I appreciate it Listen I just want an opportunity to tell you I'm a fan Well I'm a fan of yours if you will I'm not supposed to say that was a jerk lesson but I read Believe Me in yours or so my degree was in economics We last talked, I sat next to you for an hour, Saturday 1984 in one of your sessions with a journalist and it was a great treat and a great pride Well, thank you sir Appreciate it Bye bye See you