 Y cyfnodd yn da samod o'r mor Bryn Wyrdd yn i gyd yn ei gwell yn rhoi'w'r cyflwyno, ac ydyn nhw'n meddwl gael cael eu'r lid paste. Mae'r gweinion er mwyn yn Australia yn ei gael i'ch gael yn fan rhyngwysbeth wrth ei ei wneud ei gael i'ch gweinion. Mae'r cyflwyno yn gallu gwyfn nhw'n meddwl i'ch gwaith, ysgrifiannol, a gweinio brydden yn ymgyrchol. Yma hwn y gallwch yn ymlaenio'n trefiad yw yn ei gweinio na'r trefiad. or insights. The representation of women in tech is gaining momentum, however we still have a long way to go, for instance women in the Nigerian tech space make up just about 22% of the workforce. Reasons for this include lack of accessible opportunities, cultural stereotypes, society's male suitability for tech roles etc. So today we're asking how do we start to empower women in tech. Please let's hear what you have to say, remember you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or whatsapp to 0818 038 4663 or tweet at us at wayshareafrica with the hashtag wayshare. So dearly I know we talked fairly recently, I come over what we were talking about and you talked about your experience in tech. That was around a recruitment exercise I believe, but what has your experience in tech as a whole, what has that been like? Well ok, so now I'm not in tech anymore. I still think that it's still very stereotyped really and as a woman you're made to feel like you can go the long haul when you're in that space. Sometimes it's unconsciously derogatory like they make it look like they're doing a marathon on coding and stuff or you have to deal with monthly stuff. The typical stuff and the truth is it depends on the part of tech you're in. If you're into coding that takes quite a whole lot of time out into coding and you can go days trying to debug or whatever and all that. I think that takes its toll on women but again women are much more interested in tech now because some of the things that society made the norm like 10 years ago and all that. Gradually people are saying ok you know what I think I know what I want, I don't really have to get married when I'm 25, I don't really have to rate exactly I have options. So those things are also impacting positively to having more women in the tech space who can actually go the long haul. Awesome, nice to see there some progress. Hello Mary, how are you today? I'm ok, I'm good. How's your week been? Come see, come see. Awesome, excellent. What are your thoughts on women in tech? To be honest I feel like it's not easy and I feel like it's too relatable to women in business which is still tough because women have to learn to balance work life and that's a bit tough for us. We have the when you were pregnant that takes its toll but I can see that organizations are now stepping up to say oh hey the whole work from home has changed a lot of things. Tech is making things easier in which you can stay at home and do your work. You have people who they just gave birth and you know they're still on the computer and they can still do it. So I think organizations are stepping up now to include women in the workforce but I think we have a long way to go but we're doing better trust me. I think that I agree with you there from, I see a lot more organizations being very deliberate about diversity equity and inclusion programs and you know really making workplaces conducive for all types of women at all stages in their lives really, whether you're a nursing mother, whether you're pregnant. I've just seen some really really interesting benefits that companies, in fact I think there was a company, I think it was late last year who was on social media talking about their benefits for fathers. Definitely important for us to stress that gains have been made but we won't stop here, more certainly needs to be done. We're looking forward to talking to our guest today to give us her perspective on women in tech. Jane Egerton Adeher is a tech executive, author and speaker. She was the head of sales Middle East and Africa for Metta Facebook. Prior to that she was country manager in Nigeria and the original sales director for the West Africa branch of Avanti Communications Group PLC. She cumulatively spent 13 years in sales and management in the telecommunication infrastructure giant Ericsson. She also worked as a cluster lead for Nokia Siemens Network in West Africa. Being one of the few females heading key business areas in the tech industry has exposed Jane to numerous professional and personal challenges, peculiar to women. Sperd by discussions with fellow female executives around the globe, she organized a forum at Ericsson in which emerging and experienced female leaders could support each other in developing their careers. The overwhelming success of the forum led her to found women and career at www.womenandcareer.com to reach women beyond her organization and to support girls seeking careers after school. Thank you for joining us, Jane. She joined us via Zoom. Hi Jane. Hi, and it's good to be here. Good to be back. Lovely to have you. Yes, it's been a few years but we always love to have our guests come back to the show and see how much progress you've made. I think at the time we had you on the show the last time you were just about to go to Metta. Yes, I just published my book. You did. You did. A very good reader, I must add. What are your thoughts so far on how the journey and the experience has progressed for women in tech? Yes, because I've listened to Mary and the other ladies share their thoughts and I thought, wow, that's interesting because it's been two decades. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. It's been two decades since I started my journey in tech and it has really evolved. I don't think the problem is entirely solved and I don't think it will be entirely solved in my lifetime but I could share my perspective in terms of how I've seen progress. I will borrow Charles Blow's analogy. He used it for a race but it really works with the challenges women have faced in tech. It's been one of a mountain where you're trying to climb the mountain. Most of the women are faced with these hurdles to climb the mountain in their career as entrepreneurs in the society. There is also the challenge of trying to reduce the mountain that these women are trying to climb. That's where we need more leadership or policymakers to help reduce some of these hurdles or barriers we've created for them. But if I look at my journey so far, I look at it from three points. In earlier in my career, we always used to say we had a pipeline challenge. So we had very few people that were coming to tech that are women. So the challenge was how do we get more girls to study tech? How do we get more women into tech roles? But the reality is that we found that even though that problem is not entirely solved, we had another issue. Even the little ones that make it into tech, we had a retention problem. I saw that firsthand. By the time I got married, I started having kids. All the women around me were just disappearing. This one is resigning. She's no longer working. She wants to be a teenager. And I'm not saying those professions are bad but it was almost like the system had made it difficult for them to remain. It was difficult to be married as a woman and take some of those tech roles. So they tried to wither away. Then we had the problem of leadership. So you now start getting close and you realize that there are very few people that look like you at those tables. And it has a huge impact because those tables, leadership tables, is where real decision is made. And if you don't influence it from the leadership, sometimes all those goals, because I was in these companies were always setting ambitious targets. We want 33% of women by 20, whatever. We had all these wonderful, amazing goals, but we never were really implementing them. So it's almost like it was a great and a hype thing to have a goal or a target. But when it really comes to doing the work, executing, it was lacking. And that was most times because leadership wasn't paying it. Leadership wasn't even invested to take it on as a goal and force the line management downwards to execute. So I see it from three angles. I know the broader issues are more societal related stereotypes and biases that exist. That's why I said it doesn't, it's not in our lifetime we can solve that problem. But there's been some progress. I will say that. I know I put up a post like, I think it was like a couple of months ago. I'd gone to my office in Lagos. I came for a meeting. I was so happy. I saw a nursing room. And people didn't get it. I actually took a picture. I was really excited. I was like, why are you so excited? I'm like, when I was having kids, this didn't exist. I used to pump breast milk in the toilet and in the room where you have the file cabinets in the store room. It was almost like a taboo to talk about it. And here you're proudly displaying a nursing room. Glad, like I said, we must acknowledge the progress that we've made and we're all excited to see whatever the little gains are, we'll celebrate them and look forward to seeing much more. OK, so actually you had mentioned something about, you know, getting women to go into STEM, you know, and I wanted to ask if, OK, well, I know there's a lot of advocacy going into that bottom. Do you think that the industry in itself, you know, is attractive enough? I mean, considering all the challenges that you just mentioned, again, we have evolved, but the challenges are still there. Do you think that if there's any incentive, so to say, that more women, more girls who want to go into the STEM programme and, of course, you know, bridge the degree gap, you know, between men going into tech, you know, related courses, profession as against women, you know, who are just, well, I don't know. Just laid back, so to say, but what are the kind of incentives that you think should be put in place to ensure that more women, more girls, even the women in the industry currently, you know, they have the support, you know, that they need to foster a career advancement? Very good question, very good one. I think when it comes to pipeline, in one of the baseline one people had for years chased, which I think is great, is hiring, the way companies hire. We noticed if you do blind hiring, this easy peasy, like when you see the CV and you take away the gender, the way you would, you know, you would decide and choose those that make it would be different when the gender is shown. And I had personally witnessed it, because I remember one role we were recruited for and it was a lady at the end, the top candidate was a lady. But when he came to the panel, you know, like Debra Freeland, we spent the whole time discussing about the fact that she was engaged and married, she's going to soon, you know, probably get pregnant, go on like that. We were just feeling wrong with before the end. And I was the only woman in the panel. So I was uncomfortable even in my little work. I'm like, you know what, maybe we should focus on the skills. So hiring is one thing we could do when it comes to pipelining. And when it comes to retention, we could do much more actually, because a lot has got to do with the existing leadership management, the managers that hire as well. How are you creating that environment that makes it really congeasy for women to stay? And one easy one is the hybrid workplace. Didn't used to exist. You know how it is when a woman starts having kids, you know, if it's not necessary, she has to show up, you know, like I remember you take phone calls while you're doing immunisation for your kids. It was just ridiculous. If she could work remotely, I still, because I didn't think about it, you were talking about coding. To write a code, I don't need to be in the office. If you could actually manage more based on performance. The important thing is that I delivered the code I told you I was going to deliver. You don't have to see me physically 24 hours every weekday to do that. So things like hybrid workplaces start opening up and make it easier for women. Because most times they are at the prime of their, you know, prime of their career and still prime of their model youth phase when they are in those careers. And it's almost like, you know, chicken and egg situation for them. They don't want to leave. Most of them don't want to leave those jobs just to have kids. They still want to relieve other parts of them. So they really want to keep the career. So if things like nursing rooms did exist, so the woman doesn't have to feel guilty pumping milk in the toilet for a baby. You know, those kind of stuff. Being conducive for them that when they come back, we accommodate the fact that for a couple of months, yes, we might have to, you know, give them incentives like closing times made a bit more understandable. The times we have our meetings can do that was a big problem for me. Trying to put most of your meetings at 8am for a woman that has a toddler that is nursing. It doesn't work. She probably didn't sleep the whole night. She was breastfeeding. So once we start to train our, so this is for retention, we start to make those changes to the cultural practices in our organisation and how we create conducive environment for them. But we also do a bit of capacity-building. You could have trained the managers because some of the bias is also stemmed from the fact that the managers, the people in leadership had this unconscious bias. The woman tells you she's going for immunisation. She'd be like, immunisation again? You know, like, every time this baby, you know, she starts feeling uncomfortable. Next time, she'd probably be like, maybe I should just leave this job, you know. So those types of things would really help. It would really help when we create those policies within the organisations. HR has invested interest to make sure that women, we create a conducive environment for them to remain in the organisation and grow their careers if they want to. So I think that I like the fact that we sort of really talked about the empowerment in the workplace. But given the numbers that we have today, I think that we also, when we want to try to improve the performance and improve the representation of women in tech, when you empower, you can either empower based on skill or you can empower the individual in terms of their mindset and how they approach it. So I want to talk more on that, empowering the individual. Today there's a plethora of courses that you can take in tech, right? You can take short courses, you can still go to university. There's so many ways in which you can upskill to join the tech world. But given what we've talked about so far, we can see that there's a gap in the mindset, or the expectation. So when I get a job in tech, I'm excited, I'm looking forward to it, then I'm embraced, or I'm faced with these kinds of, I won't call them hostile conditions, but unsuitable conditions that eventually lead to me, lead to me leaving, there's attrition, there's turn. What do you think can be done to prepare women better for roles in tech? So when I'm upskilling, are there, is there like a female in tech 101 course I could take? Just like to hear what your thoughts are there in preparing women better to go into tech. I like the fact that you said it's there, but don't want to watch it. It's just like there's no manual for modern tech. Exactly. But that said, I think a lot of awareness needs to be, there's a lot of awareness that is required, and I think this is where even civil societies, policymakers need to create these awareness, even down the pipeline. You don't have to wait until when it's time for them to get into the job market. Even while they are still higher education, secondary school, if we create that perception that when we are looking for people in tech, we're looking for people that can solve problems, it's not tied to the agenda. Restriction is not the fact that you're feminine or you're a woman. That's not a restriction. That is definitely a good one, because mindset change takes a while. Some of these young ladies, some of us young women, it took a lifetime to think this way. This is subconsciously what people have nudged you to. Oh, no, don't choose those costs. That's too hard. Why don't you just go and do this one and graduate? Subconsciously, you've been fed with all these things that wouldn't work for you in the environment you're going to now when you want to work. So that's one, but also even as we do that, I think organisations can do that because if we say civil societies and policymakers do that, a lot is also required from organisations when we go and take these graduate hires, what do we train them? And some of the training is to create the mindset of what an ideal candidate for us. And if we make it look like it's not tied to gender and these wouldn't be the challenges, you're kind of making it easier for the women to see themselves in those roles. A third thing I'll say is mentoring. I think it's really good. Apart from training, if you see you do, some of us took up things because either you saw someone do it or you saw someone that you so admire taking that pathway that you feel empowered, you feel like, oh, I can do it. Because that's what has happened to me. Each of the roles that I've taken that has been so challenging because people said, oh, we never had a woman do it anymore, whatever. Once I do it, if I leave that role, the next thing you see, a lot of women want to apply towards taking on that role. So if we also do that, that could be a good way, mentoring, making sure they have role models they can look up to, championing their case. Because sometimes also beyond mentoring, organisations should be invested in actually giving them sponsors and champions within the organisation. Because sometimes also you need people that can understand where you're coming from. Because if you're talking about all these mindset challenges, tell me that your boss is a guy. He might not even understand this thing you're talking about. He doesn't get it in that sense. It's not that he's being mean, but he doesn't see it from your viewpoint. There comes empathy. So a woman with a similar challenge or they have taken a similar journey might be able to advocate for you better and listen to your challenges. Awesome. I think we should take a short break now. Please stay with us. We'll be right back. If you've just tuned in, we're discussing the topic Empowering Women in Tech with Jane Egerton-Idehan. Please let's hear what you have to say. Remember, you can join the conversation. Send us an SMS or WhatsApp 208182384663. Tweet at us at Weisshire Africa One with the hashtag Weisshire, especially if you're a woman in tech. We'd love to hear your perspective on this conversation. So Mary, I think we'll come to you. All right. I think we've said quite a lot, but which is really good. And I would also like to come from the point of imposter syndrome. How do you deal with that? Because you have a lot of young females in the tech space or in the walk space who feel like they're not good enough. Well, they're actually good enough, but I feel like their achievements, you're not able to advocate for yourself. So would you advise more mentorship or networking? What's going to help to build that firm leg where you can speak up for yourself and have a voice for yourself? I'm not going to learn this thing overnight. I'm not going to be the champion overnight, but I'm on the path to being the champion. Thank you, Mary. Everyone goes through it, I think, because imposter syndrome normally kicks in where there are very few people that look like you in a room. Then all of a sudden you start to feel very little or vulnerable or you start to feel like your voice doesn't count. When it happens, it could be for a woman being always the only one in the room that is female or a black person always being the only black person in the room. All of a sudden the pressure kicks in because you see very little like yourself. I know that a good way, because I share from my own personal experience, a good support system is always very helpful because you're playing mind games. You're playing with your mind and it really starts with sometimes people holding up the mirror for you. A good example, I remember I went for a program in Yale. It was a board training for women and there were only two of us that were Africans in that large room. By the second, I haven't said a single word in the room because I kept worrying about, oh, my accent. Do they understand me? Will they hear me? But the truth is that one good thing that worked for me is one of those days I had a call to my mom and I don't know what we were talking about. I was like, you're right, I need to talk to them about Nigeria, give them the perspective and that changed the way I saw it. So one way is to feed yourself with the fact that you bring something to the room. I think Uti was alluded to that earlier. We have to recognize the fact that you are who you are, a woman, a young girl in tech. There's a reason why your voice should be heard because you're speaking for many others like yourself. But it's also important to have a support system because I don't think that mindset shift will kick in automatically. It's good to have people you can be vulnerable with and they can help you and applaud you and put that up and let you know that, hey, this is why you were there and this is why you should do it. Make sure you don't leave there doing what we said you should do. So those are some of the basic things that I know that have worked for me because it's also like a transformational thing. You're always working on it. I don't think it finally goes away. Each time where you are a minority in the room, the tendency is that it will kick in. I always sort of talk about, I tell young people that I mentor that you should find your superpower and figure out how you're going to leverage that to your benefit. Now, one of the things that we sort of not touched on really is the type of products that are created in tech. So when we think about the products, we think about the UI UX, all of these products, when they're created, they're targeted eventually at women. I don't have the stats on the top of my head, but I would imagine that they're more female social media users of these platforms than there would be men. So what impact, right, because if we're talking about empowerment, what impact from that perspective, given that you're creating a product for the gender, would having a higher representation of that gender in those types of teams, what impact would it have? And that's why sometimes we get the products wrong. Now I'm even talking to tech. Just just take basic AI. I was playing with an AI filter the other day, it was meant to do make up. And it was ridiculous because I'm sure that somewhere I wrote that code behind the scene. It wasn't a guy. It probably was a guy. And his idea of how a woman should be made up and the colors to be used like probably different. So that's why it's so important we have women in those rooms. If you are targeting a specific market, an addressable market, and the demographics is male and female, it only makes logical sense that to create that product, they should be male and female in the room. Even though you're creating a product for one-sided demographic, for just one side of the gender space. And that's why most times we get it wrong again and again. A good example, you just begin to what you said is the shoes. Remember the red sole shoes that we all wear, Louis Vuitton, everybody loves them. They are very fancy, they are very expensive, but they are very uncomfortable. And I remember when I kept wondering why is this thing so uncomfortable? After all the money I've spent, then I googled, I found out that the creative director is a guy. He doesn't get to wear the shoe the entire day like I do. So he doesn't get the comfort part. He just wants to make it look attractive and classy. And that's what happens to the tech products. Once we're not having women in the room, especially products that are targeting women, there's always a missed alignment. Then it takes loads and loads of iteration to get it right. And the basic way to fix it is to hack the women in the room. Because I remember there's a tech product that we're talking about. I was just in the room for a different reason. And by the time they had told me about this, they had a wonderful idea. I told them, the market you are serving. The product was to service a market, traders in the market, which were mostly women. But the people building the product, they have no proper alignment to that target market. I was creating a product in the air that the people going to use it will probably not use it. So it's so important, right? Especially now we are at this transition point where we are having AI block. If you don't have women in those room helping you build those products, you're back to square one. Okay, so I mean, in all of this, I was thinking of a founder's gap. There is a lot of women are going into business now. Again, we're getting the skills, we're upskilling and all of that. And funding is always a major issue. So I'm thinking, I don't know what your take on that would be, but I'm thinking that if we're trying to drive more women into the tech space, then we should create opportunities where women who are willing to start up their own tech businesses have access to funding. Because funding is a huge part in why a lot of women would just be like, okay, you know what? Okay, I can't work in this space because things are not going the way I want them to go. I don't have all the opportunities I want. I can't start my own stuff because I don't have the funding for it. So what do you think should be done or how do you think women can access funding to encourage startups, female-owned businesses, and drive that empowerment? You're so right because even if you look at the West African space, I think women are very entrepreneurial in South Africa. I can't remember the number. It's more than the global average. But of course, in terms of scaling up those business funding, they struggle when it's time to raise funds because most of these investors themselves are male. People are almost drawn to people that look like them. You hang out with people that look like you. You think like them and you think that if it's not presented in that way, you don't see it as an opportunity. It's like, oh, she has a good idea, but nah, we're looking for a unicorn. So one way, of course, I notice women have is to put our money where our mouth is and it's to have more women investors, more women funding. You're starting to see that crop up. You see a couple of funds that are just targeting women, especially in the FinTech. I think that's one way to do it because it's only... If you don't give those women a chance, they will never blossom to give us those unicorns and those wonderful start-ups we want to see. But they don't stand a chance because the people are locating the funds. Don't look like them. Don't think like them. And a buyer still was thinking that they can't think big and create big start-ups like we've seen. So it's to have women actually do that. And you start to see that in terms of the angel funding. I think policy could help, actually. Because even when we create all these governmental programmes and create funds and all that, if we give organisations... Because that's what people started doing. If we give funds incentive to make sure they fund female businesses, if they know that they have an incentive, they get the tax rebate, they get something, there's a leverage you're going to use, you see more of them start to deliberately look for female founded or own businesses. And that's how we could change that. Because if we don't give them the incentive, they'll still do what they've always done because it's always worked for them. And then we'll continue to have that gap. So it has to be two-point where women themselves are doing it. Forgotting one slog at someone that used that, when it comes to having women also invest in female-own businesses so that we can support them. But also to make sure that the standard funds, the standard investors are giving incentive to want to fund female-own businesses. Okay. I would like to hear your view on the AI scare that is going on right now. We've heard that the founder has stepped out of the... The buck has left a building. Yes, he has said that there's a lot of dangers and he has just left us hanging. And I know for the well that the chat... Chat GPT? Yeah, you know, it's really gaining waves these days. So I mean, is it harmful? Should we be cautious of it or... I mean, the advantage is more than disadvantages. What do you have to say on that? My personal opinion is too late. Even though he leaves the building, he has taken off already. He can't stop it. I know. He's taken a life of his own. I like to see this. I always say that technology is like a knife in your kitchen. I like to use that illustration. A knife in your kitchen, in your hands is a wonderful tool. You're chopping onions, you're peeling your yam, you're cooking. You make a good meal. If a thief comes to your house, a knife in his hand is a very dangerous tool. That's not what you want. That's how technology in many ways looks like. It can be used for good, and that's where policy comes in. It can be used for good, but it can be used for bad, because now we're talking about AI and all the wonderful things it can do for us, especially with Chat GPT, opening AI, and how it will transform the way we do work in the next century. Even some of the jobs we do, it will change. Some of the knowledge work we do, the way we do it, will change, because we can literally outsource some of those cognitive tasks to AI. AI will write your article, do your proposal. Don't let it take that. I use it. I use it. I'm not complaining. We want to make sure that it doesn't fall into the hands of the wrong people, because it will happen to social media. Because we didn't step in with the right... People didn't know what to do. When it comes to privacy and security, it was hanging in the air for a long time. Nobody could define what the rules should be, so anything went. And that's how even our kids got caught up in that whirlwind. So now that it's still early, I don't think we should, in my opinion. Maybe it's not the time to leave it to the technocrats, or the technology creators themselves to polish it, because it's probably not going to be the best. In most cases, they might not have an incentive to want to do it, because people can actually use it for bad. Think about it if someone gets one of these AI plugins and writes a model that can scrape around collecting data about people's credit card. You can do so many crazy things with it that are not actually legal. But you don't want that. But this is the time to now start sitting and saying, what kind of policy should we put around it? You see, we're talking about misinformation. You can create all them fake videos now, because we can simulate, no matter the kind of voice you have, it can be simulated with AI. We can do the same thing with your pictures, and we can create funny videos of you that you didn't even do, and it looks like a real video of you. And that will create a lot of misinformation. But maybe this is a time to regulate it, and now state that, okay, if it was done with AI, it should be stated there that this video was done with AI. It's not the actual, maybe, person, or this is an AI-generated video. I think the earlier we start to do that, it will reduce the harmful effects, because if we don't do that, if we start having a case of she said, she said nobody's sure with all the information going around, which one is actually sourced correctly and which one is just AI-generated. So this is a good time to start having the conversations. I think this is a time that policy makers should start having that conversation. How do we ensure that there's privacy and security as AI starts doing more? Let's hope that in setting those types of policies, people then don't feel that their rights are being infringed on. But we've enjoyed the conversation as we come close to the end of the show. I'd like you to leave us with your thoughts, and these thoughts are targeted at three different women. I'd like you to give us your final comment to a young girl today who's thinking about a job in tech, to a young lady who has just started her job in tech, and finally to a lady who is thinking, I'm ready to leave tech. What would you say to each of them? Oh, the lady there is ready. I'm already saying all. But to the young lady that's just about to start tech, the world is your oyster. I think you're a human first before you're a woman, and that's what's important, because tech is all about solving problems. And we need you to solve problems, because the problems are for both male and females. If you're not there to solve problems, there will be nobody solving problems with women in mind. So it's so important that you take that journey, because your voice, you are needed in the room. To the woman in tech already, I want to say that you probably have started climbing this hill. So you have started experiencing some of the gaps. Now, I would love to tell you that the gaps wouldn't exist, but they will be there. But what I can tell you is that the mountain has been, or the hill, has been reducing with time. If you have more people like you to speak up, call out things, that hill will keep reducing so that your daughters, your sons, would have a better experience than you did. That's why it's so important that you do it, because if you look back at 150 years, even women were not expected to go to college. They were not allowed into all these Ivy League colleges, but today they can vote, they can go to college. So yes, the pains you have today will be the glory for your daughter tomorrow. So it is important that you also hang in there. And very quickly for the girl who is about to get into, who is thinking about getting into tech. No, leaving. I know that you are actually drained. If you're leaving, it has gotten to you. But that's life. Life will have its highs and lows. So my only ask for you is that, think about the reason you got into tech. Could that be a reason to keep you there? There must have been a reason. There must have been some dreams, something you were trying to achieve. There must have been a reason to keep you there. There must have been some dreams, something you were trying to achieve. Can you look for a way to recharge yourself? So can you go back to the actual reason? And don't all these distractions take you away? Excellent. Thank you so much, Jane. We've certainly had a great time having you on the show. And we look forward to having you back again. Thank you, Adela. Thank you, Mary. Always fun being on set with you ladies. So before we go, do ensure you follow us on Instagram, at Wayshow Africa. You can interact with us further, for comments, and most importantly, follow all our social media engagements. And remember to like, share, comment, and invite your friends or family to watch us and follow us. If you missed today's quote here, it is again, recognise and embrace your uniqueness. I don't think the ratios are going to change anytime soon. But I don't think it has to be a disadvantage being a black woman, being a woman in general on a team of all men means that you're going to have a unique voice. It's important to embrace that. We'll see you again on Monday at 8pm as we bring another great conversation to your screens. Have a good evening.