 We've got about 10 or 12 minutes or so for questions. As I said earlier if you could put your hand in the air and give us your name and your affiliation. If you have got a question, you'll have to sort of catch my eye. It's quite a tricky room to chair because I can barely see the back. But, in the absence of a starting question I will kick in. I chair Lighthouse here in Brighton, a new NPO, digital specialist agency. One of the questions I think that is coming through is, and this has come up at other events as well, there are particular objectives around business model developments and audience engagement for this fund. Does that mean artistic innovation per se, isn't included, isn't eligible, won't score highly? Or is it the case that artistic innovation has to run through the whole thing a bit like, Gwelch chi'n gweithio'n mynd i ymddangos i fynd i'r rygwb. Gwybod chi'n gweithio'n gweithio'n gweithio? Rydych chi'n gweithio? Rydw i'n gwneud. Rydw i'n eich cymdeithas gyda'n du gwybod sydd y mae'r enthysgwyl ar y llyfr sydd yn gweithio'r gweithio'r llyfr o sefydliadau gweld ei hyfforddiol i'r hollios ymddangos i'r guwntiau a'r gweithio'r llyfr o gwleidio ar y llyfr filed calling branches and other strategic funds to invest in artistic innovation through digital technology or not The point about this fund is that it gives us an opportunity to focus, not an enormous amount of money in the scheme of the Arts Council's Budget, on ways in which organizations can address the key issues of developing their audiences a chwmbr hatching new business models and revenue streams. If they are able to do that or choose to do that through means that involve artistic innovation, then that's fantastic. But it's not necessarily a pre-requisite and if projects that are involved in artistic innovation do so without necessarily demonstrating that they are hitting those other issues of audience development or new business models newrevenue streams than they won't be funded through this scheme. So, I hope that's clear and it's certainly something that we've thought quite carefully about and talked to the sector about, but it is an issue that we take quite seriously because we do support artistic innovation very much so, but we have to see how this focus for this particular fund will help us to address the purpose that we've identified for it. So, there's a logical follow up to that which is both you and Hassan have said that this fund is to some degree testing and piloting some elements that may be used in the larger £20 million fund later. Same question, £20 million fund, is it the case that the criteria of this fund will roll into the bigger one or is there something else involved in that one? Do you think? I know it's early days for that. Well, as I've said, we'll be announcing the details of those funds later on in this year, so it would be inappropriate for me to entirely pre-empt that, but the same answer would apply. So, if we were focusing that fund in a way that meets the needs of organisations to help them to reach new audiences and to address new business models and revenue streams, then that's really where the focus needs to lie. Artistic innovation would be the means by which we would do it, not necessarily the purpose for the fund. The overall £20 million digital innovation programme that we'll be announcing will cover a wider range of initiatives and ways of us supporting the sector, but I've already talked about the importance of our investment in the national portfolio organisations, many of whom will be wanting to support artistic innovation and also I've also pushed the Grants for the Arts programme, where we will absolutely want to encourage organisations who are not MPOs to apply for projects that offer artistic innovation as part of what they're trying to achieve as well. Okay, question or comment from here. What's your name? Where do you come from? Hi. Julian Jordan from an organisation called Right Out Loud. Hello, Julian. A poetry organisation with a big successful website. My question is to do with this partnership issue. Forgive me if I've not read the documentation sufficiently. Is it essential that one of the partners is a digital organisation and the other is an artistic organisation? Or if there were some other elements, for example, we have to be pretty good at both sides of things, well, we're not somebody good at research and developing business models. That would be useful for us to be able to partner with an organisation with respect to the business models notion. Passan? Okay. The proposals need to be led by an arts and culture organisation in England, so that's a requirement of the scheme. As I said, we've been trying to lower as much as possible the barriers to entry as it were in terms of definitions of what an arts and culture organisation is, because the key focus, as I said in this fund, is the knowledge that's been created rather than actually where that knowledge is being created. It is essential, we are insisting that they partner in their bid with a technology provider, but again, we've tried to be very clear in our definitions of what a technology provider is. That doesn't necessarily mean a listed technology company. It's essentially anyone who provides a technology service can demonstrably put into their applications that they provided a technology service that's relevant to the project in question. If you're one of those many organisations that find yourself partly self-identified as an arts and culture organisation in terms of what you do, why you do it, how you're funded, for example, on one hand, but also using technology, maybe even developing new technology and holding IP, then you're in a happy situation where you can identify yourself as both an arts and culture organisation or as a technology company. Because what we're trying to do in this fund, we can't do everything with it, not least because it's not a large set of funds, we've had to make some sort of decisions on what we're really trying to achieve through it, and one of the things we are trying to do is partner organisations that typically would struggle to get funding to partner, and therefore that means we're ruling out situations, unfortunately, if you have one organisation that finds itself having the in-house technological mouse to do what it wants to do. If it's an arts organisation that already has that, we are still to be clear, we are still insisting that they partner with a technology provider. Second part of that question was, what if you need help with the business models piece? Well, actually, and this is connected to the bit I didn't answer on research, just to be absolutely clear, the reason why we are working with the HRC to provide research services for this project is that we're not expecting arts organisations or technology companies for that matter to write research proposals. The emphasis must be on a clear testable proposition and a relevant proposition about innovation insofar as it meets the fund's objectives. A burning question that the arts and cultural sector needs the answer to, but we're not expecting the proposals to build in research design and research methodology. That's the whole point of us connecting with the researchers, so you don't have to have any research expertise whatsoever as either as an arts organisation or a technology provider to apply for this fund. So at risk of me sounding thick, which is one of my favourite hobbies, does that mean if I went to a university and I went to the business school and said to the business, and I say, I've got the technology, I've got the artistic bit, I go to the business school and so you want to research your business model question, is that in scope? A business model question is certainly within scope, but what we're not expecting organisations to do, in fact we're not requiring them to do, is to go and find, identify their own business school. I mean essentially it's it's down to us to ensure that the, all the relevant research services that an organiser, a project will need are essentially available and that's our responsibility as funding partners to ensure that happens. Okay so you'd help do that matchmaking if that was the question, if that was a research question, you and the HRC? And even that's tricky of course, we appreciate some organisations already have established relationships researchers and but many don't, and we had to make a decision on this and what we felt was that the needs of those organisations that don't have established relationships with business schools for example is something we need to cater for. Okay that sounds like a fairly full answer, yes. Okay we've got time for a couple more, there's one just towards the back near. Andrew's got the mic I think, then what next? Then we're done I think. Ie, dweud o gwbl ddechrau'r cwmhwylliant yw'r tybl o'r twfio cyf кот o'r cyfwilio'r cyfwilio'i gynhyrch o'r cyfwilio'r cyfwilio'i gynhyrch o'u gwbl o'r cyfwilio'i gwmhwylliant yw'r cyfwilio'i gwanigol. Mae'r dweudio y gael y dŷlwll yn y dyfodol gweld o'r dŷlwll yn cyfnodig o'r ddygiadau digital, i wneud ei wneud gyda'r un o'r amser, i ddweud o'r un o'r cyfnodig oed o'r gweithio. O'r wneud efallai mae yw'r ddych yn cyfnodig o'r dylwn ni'n myfnodig o ddweudio'r ddygiadau, You encourage new opportunities and new relations, since we are at the league again. Okay, let's try and clarify that. Richard is that for you, initially at least? Mae'w dweud i gyda'r dweud. gan gyflaun bod gwych yn rhoi'r ddau, ynrian o'r ddau o gwadygol, fyddai gweld i'r ddigion ei ddylau. Ond mae'n nhw, mae'n ddigitwch gyda'r ddigitwch gyda'r gwahodannu Dychdoedd digital yw ychwanegwyr o'r amgwen yn i gael gyrfaen newydd aespaniaeth. The way in which digital technology can help organisations to develop their business model or identify new revenue streams as a result of any kind of digital technology partnership that they can facilitate is also part of what we are trying to achieve. fe yna'r defnyddio nifer y gael fy modd neu'n totod y茴! A gwneud hynny'n dwy gan thril i ddau? Felly ond, ydw i'n ffrindnu eich cymryd, Richard, mae'n fawr i'r aml fractionnol gyda'r ffund ereresi nhw teimlo o'r ffordd o'r reilio. Efallai eich cymryd yn fawr i'r ffordd o'r eilio lle cyntaf o'r ffordd o'r reilio. Mae'n ffordd o'r reilio, ac mae'n ffordd o'r ffordd o'r reilio. Ond mae'n lleol i'r lleth, That is defined in terms of what that actually means in pumpkin and business model innovation. It is and all business model innovation. So my project does not necessarily have to test prepositions around both innovation and business model innovation. It could be one or the other or both. We want to keep that flexible. But those are the two aspects of innovation that we are focusing primarily in this fund. So Richard is absolutely right in some sense the answer is both. roedd y gallwn dod yn ymweliadau gwahanol dim, i wnaeth roedd o'r hun o bobl. Roedd eich cerddur arcofael i'r math newydd, mae wnaeth hyn yn fwy o defnyddio'r hwn ar gyfer, ac mae'r penderwys i'ch hyn arwain y rôl. Mae yw'n hefyd, dywed yn rhaid i. Byddwn i yw 60mm cymryd yw hwn, wrth gwrs mae'r hun o rheswm fyddiwch ar y call. Mae gydwy'r hun o wybodaeth Gwgol yn gydwbl hwnnw mewn gydwledig. pepper nawr yw'r hun o'r wybodaeth Gwgol ond yn cael ei wneud iawn a'i ddechrau'r ysgolion. A'r rhai wneud iawn i'r ffwrdd yma, y gallwn cyffredinol o'r ffordd iawn ar gyfer yr ysgolion a'r hyn yn cael ei ddechrau'r cyffredinol o'r ffordd iawn. A'r wneud bod y gallwn gweld effaithio'r arser i'r pathenau, yn dweud i ddod ar y sgolion sy'n iawn'r ysgolion mewn UGC, dystryb uchwyn, ymgyrchau'r ysgolion, data and archive, education and learning and resources were pretty much that's what came out of the exercise and obviously we'd welcome feedback on the process that we used to identify their themes but they really you know they also seemed pretty intuitive actually to us as well I think in terms of our prize and as I say any propositions to test either audience engagement innovation and or business model innovation and we're under no illusions here about obviously the challenges in in sort of experimenting with new business models in this area but both of those would be in scope do they hopefully Maxine I don't know if that answers your question between us yeah is that okay and so and and the sixth one resources is a strange word isn't it because it sort of means using digital technology to do things more efficiently to make your organisation more resilient that's come up previously so that would sort of cover more of your business models and IP piece that's come up in previous sessions it's just worth flagging okay one final question if you can please Angela I'm sorry culturally from Discover Story Center in East London we're a new NPO you might have just answered my question which might make your my question short and your answers short but we are currently looking at developing a digital story based project with a digital publisher for children and young people so it's absolutely about reaching new audiences it's about engaging it's about content because it's about working with artists the the the new revenue stream element of it because the idea is it goes it's directly reaching children rather than through agencies of schools or whatever so how you create a new revenue stream I haven't got a clue so that I suppose my question is I think you kind of answered it where it could be either or but if it's going to be an incredibly competitive a part of I suppose in a way part of the R&D might be working with Nesta on how do you is it possible to develop a revenue stream a business model from something that's directly reaching people who don't have an income stream does that make sense it does and I think it's obviously a very good illustration of how challenging it is to explore new business models if it was a straightforward as knowing you know if we knew the answers to those questions we we wouldn't have the need for the R&D so I think um I mean just to be clear although it would be a very very competitive process we imagine and certainly the signs are that there's a lot of interest in in this you know funding streams for this sort of activity um the the selection criteria are very very clear here on you know the proposition the relevance of that proposition to the wider arts and cultural sector um and uh and we therefore there is no in built bias against R&D projects are more riskier than others let's put it that way I mean you know I mean almost by definition I mean there's one reason why we're doing this sort of fund is that we want to support testing the prepositions which would be very difficult to do otherwise and and that inevitably means an element of risk so so I I certainly would feel that sort of challenge that you described does not rule you know does not rule such a project out of the scope for this fund um Richard do you want to add anything to that or does that fit? No it's great brilliant okay there we are we love each other hopefully that was slightly useful um it's time for a cup of coffee um and for me to say thank you to um my colleagues on the panel um they're staying around um I know um Richard um and Hassan are around um Philips around for a little bit longer I think so by all means direct your questions to them um if we could be back in in 10 minutes time if they can serve us coffee that quickly that will help us get to lunch on time so 1145 if you can please and thanks again gentlemen