 The meeting comes to order recording. Okay. Welcome to the May 23. Recommission meeting. We have present today use of Fidel, Matt, Cain, trailer, Mailer, Jonas Cox, and myself, Ray harp. We have a few things on our agenda today that we wanted to take care of the first, first up we can go through the housekeeping of introducing Jonas Cox Jonas is this is his first official commission meeting with us. He is, he was with us last week, last month, as he observed, and had not yet been sworn in but we're excited to have him on camera for the entire meeting here we're excited to have him come to us. His, like, many of the commission here you all are have a variety of different goals into recreation. Jonas was first introduced to me through his soccer connections in the soccer world. Like the rest of us, he also has other interests, but he did thankfully put his name in when we had empty spaces here. So I want to give Jonas an opportunity to just introduce himself for a couple minutes here. Let us know about yourself about what your interests may be. And then we'll get going from there. Sure. Jonas Cox. I've lived in Amherst about eight years. And as you mentioned Ray I've been pretty involved with local soccer scene. I was JVB coach for one of the years. This is the junior varsity boys B team. And I also have done organize the summer soccer, which is pretty challenging as Ray can attest. It's like finding lots of variables. And so one of my interests is the availability of the fields, which is one of the aspects of organizing the summer soccer. Generally, I've been interested in sports since a young age. And I know Matt and Andrew from some some running exploits. There we are the slots and feeling it a lot these days. So, yeah, just excited to be on the committee and and just be more tapped into what's happening locally. We're excited. We are excited to have you. Jonas mentioned about sort of summer soccer and field stuff one place where I know I don't want to give him his cause for being here but one place where I know our past overlap was in. It's a finite resource for us as fields. One of the reasons why Jonas's name was put forward to me is because he does have a passion and interest in trying to figure out how to how to how to schedule events how to schedule field access and so the commission in the past has been interested in and things like that. And if that was part of his mission then we certainly would welcome that but there's there's a lot of places where where we are looking for some impact. And so welcome Sanjay we see has shown up here. We are now Andy at six o'clock is pretty early for Andy sometimes sometimes you we ran into that before so he may be popping in here pretty soon. We can move forward I probably we probably should have checked and seen if Matt is willing to do the minutes first before we introduce Jonas but Matt are you willing to do the main minutes. Sure, I actually already was done. Okay, that's why I figured I, we didn't officially ask that question but. And then I think the next thing we need to do is to ask about approving the April minutes. Carolyn I'll let you take that. Does anyone have any comments and did everyone get a chance to see the April minutes. Okay, and changes that haven't already been sent in or any more comments about it. No one's more public. I didn't receive any comments. Okay. All right, then I move to approve the April 23, the April 1923 April 24 23 minutes. Second from us F and all in favor. Okay. All right. Motion carried minutes are approved thanks. They come to me I can get that to Mary to have those posted here. Okay. So we are right on schedule and we are starting off. You guys know what we've got pickleball on the agenda here. We have a really good chance that this is the last time you'd have to have this as the big intro portion here because we're, I think we're at a stage right now where a commission action may be the thing that triggers the next piece of action. That's an exciting piece for us. I am going to bring out of the attendees. I'm going to bring in Amy Roseki and David Zomek. So we can go over the update on what we're looking at for pickleball. As they're being elevated, Kelly and I, and Dave were over at our new site looking at Kiwanis and had a chance to go and walk the space that I shared with you. I shared with all you all the sort of rough map of where those courts would be. There's been a couple of very slight. Proposed alternatives at that same site but those that is essentially the space that we are looking at in terms of making that that pickleball thing happen for us so do you want to do you want to start this off. I'd like to ask make sure everyone received the kind of little write up. That's basically what we're doing tonight if that sounds like the right thing to Dave and Amy, I think everyone, those of us who worked on that felt like it was going to be enough to move on to the next step. So is everyone, everyone read that you know what I'm talking about. No, the, there was a statement we sent out about why we are focusing on Zomek field right now, what the advantages of it are what the reason we moved to that as a primary target. And that is that the working group, the pickleball working group I guess I'll call it informally all stood together there for quite a while. Dave and Amy's assistant Jason gave us a good description gave us that map. And by the end of our meeting I think we were all in agreement that that was the best place to go and the one we could get done most quickly and on budget. So that's where we are. That's what we need to decide about but I think Amy and Dave have more to say tonight because there they are. What else do we need to know or what do you want to share with us. Well I love these intros I will just say raise intros are the best when you're joining a rec commission meeting they're just you feel so official it's awesome. But no. And just to clarify, I think you said Zomek field. Sorry. One, we're not putting pickleball courts at Zomek field, and two, I don't want to want to spark to be Zomek field so you know. I think we all know the field office Stanley Street so yeah, I'm not sure if the commission has seen the rendering Ray of sharing screen now. So maybe we do that and then Amy and I can kind of comment but really quickly. You know you all I think you all know we've we've really looked hard at a number of sites all over town. We think as Carolyn indicated we think there's a space at want to spark that is not a high value space that it is flat dry. It's not going to be a walk in the park I mean we've already been down there since we had the meeting out there Jason skills who's our town engineer he's, he's been wonderful and great to work with and he and Aaron Jock our what lens administrator met down there last week. We did some measuring. We talked about how the permitting for this could go because there is an intermittent stream to the to the west. There's web lens but we think either in this orientation or you know again I don't want to lock in this orientation. Basically, we're trying to build pickleball courts, as many as we can fit and as many as we can afford for 120,000 and we'll talk about the numbers in a minute. In that unused space to the west of the softball field and the multi purpose field at Kiwanis Park. We have existing parking there, we realize there's no, there's no permanent bathrooms there. Again that's something we'd have to look at in the future it's come up many times before we even talked about pickleball there, because Kiwanis is used so intensively throughout the year, but that's the general location and I'll, I'll turn it over to Amy if she wants to add anything but we would if you were in favor we would get going with with a fuller design and permitting to get this done. I think you hit all the important notes, you know obviously there might be little tweaks here and there as we explore permitting and that sort of thing but you know generally this is what we're looking at and yeah the most the most feasible option to get this moving forward as quickly as possible. The two trees would come down there. That's, that's fine. Our tree warden has already looked at them there. They're quite old and they're in kind of a decayed state. One is full of poison ivy so we don't think though losing those would be any great loss. We'll try to pick up some trees around the edges, particularly on the west side there for shade. Again the budget's going to be tight we don't know exactly how much we can get of this built for $120,000 but the hope would be to try to fold it into an existing contract paving contract that we have with some larger projects throughout town. So we'd hopefully get some economies of scale there. So happy to take questions Amy and I shoot away if you got questions. And so it should be noted that the, the one that we have here. This is a map that it's a slight adjustment this was some of the engineering adjustments that were done in the conversation between Jason and Aaron sort of planning how to get this situated as logistically sound as possible. But it's, but it's essentially the same place you see the softball line here this is all space that we essentially don't use that the one that I shared before did not overlap with these two trees here but that is, you know, those trees have to come down in order to make this work in order to flatten that little bit of a hill over here but in order to flatten that land and get the trees and the roots out of there. I have two questions. Are you done. Sorry. One is Dave you said we are ready to lock in this spot this design this location or we are not I didn't I missed a word maybe. No we are. But in design when Amy and Jason and Aaron and I do this. We just, you know, we don't want to have to come back to you if the pickleball courts were oriented like this Jason actually laid out two different scenarios one is like this with the courts. That's basically north south, and then he turned them again staying clear of the softball foul line, but he turned them so that they're facing east west. What I'm saying is, you know, we're going to have to go through concom permitting permitting to get these done I just don't want to say they're going to be exactly like this drawing we need going to be. We're going to try to permit them design them and permit them and build them out of the softball field in the multipurpose field somewhere in that area. We have two hands up here I will say that we think about framing emotion here that the Commission can think about to essentially essentially trust the engineering group that of the options that have been presented here that that this is the, this is the space will be using and the adjustments that need to be made in order to meet code. And Ray if I could the key thing here is we are extremely cognizant of the fact that we don't want to compromise the softball field or the multipurpose field that is outlined in this image here. Let's look at some hands. Matt was up first. Yeah, thanks Dave. Yeah, so the general proposal is, I think perfect. My questions probably are at the detail level, which may or may not be relevant. So, those are one foot contour lines I guess. My question is, what, what was the reason to put the, the, the close up to the parking lot versus further south. Further south. Amy you might, I mean, yeah, further south. So you would, you wouldn't require as much excavation of that little hill and also the trees would still be there, maybe. Yeah, I think a lot of the thought of that was, you know, we're trying to not only get as far as we can from the river because that makes things easier to permit, which I understand self you get a little further. But then also making sure that you make it handicap accessible and so having that connection you see that little sidewalk from the parking lot to bring it in. And so the further away you go just the longer that becomes so more like you still, you still have to pave a strip to make it handicap accessible to access it. Right, so you feel that that the extra excavation plus the taking down the trees is less than the additional paving that would be required it was further south. That was that was the engineer's opinion yeah. I see. I'm sad that we also wanted to separate the uses as much as possible so the farther south you go with the courts if you have active pickleball games going on there and you have a softball game going on. You're kind of mixing, you know, the farther south you go you're getting much closer to the diamond to the current softball diamond and I think that's why it just doesn't make sense to kind of mix those and kind of crowd the softball folks on the side of the softball field and the benches and all that. On that also the this is one, it was originally when we first talked about it was pushed up to the West here, almost in a line with the parking lot, and even this one. The first thought about it was you're getting closer to that softball line and not that it's an overlap that is that's impossible to manage, but now you're getting closer to that softball foul line that if there is overlapping activity and you, it's encroaching closer. But, but that space in the West that they're trying to push away from to manage that I think that's, that's the essential piece of it. Jonas. That's falling falling right on to what you just said right the. I guess West, it can't be nudged West, I basically left of the screen. Because that encroaches on the softball. I guess I don't understand the orientation. Yeah, so we, that's what I was alluding to earlier Jonas is, you know, we're going to try to squeeze it in at best weekend we're, we're constrained because we need to be 50 feet away from the wetland line and we haven't actually delineated that wetland over to the West. So again this is somewhat still conceptual we'll try to have it be as far West as we can, but we can't. We can't be right up against the property line and yellow there beyond the 169 you know, the closer we get over there we infringe on the 50 foot and then the conservation commission and basically either say no or put much more difficult conditions on the project. Yeah, no essentially this is, you know this is a remove the trees grade the site. Put down a sub base and then put down you know like the basketball courts at Mill River, basically pave it line it fence it and you know with a with a low fence so it's the good news here is, you know, we can do this relatively inexpensively fingers crossed, and it's, it's not like putting in a pool or, you know, or something of or, or, you know, a building per se. So, but that's the reason we had to nudge it to the east is the wetlands. Now again we have another drawing of this that Jason did that switched the orientation. So that's what I'm asking for is a little flexibility when push comes to shove here. I don't know if Ray has that one. I can pull that one up. I can show the group that one because we may end up with that one. You know I'm just saying we can't lock it in at this point. We're going to stay, you know, out of that softball field and the multi purpose field. Just pull that up. So this is the other one. There we go. This is the other variation from you this week for the for this meeting. And so this is bit just been rotated so it goes, the three courts are moving up that softball line. And you can see that the, the access walkway is extended all the way down to frame the courts on the west side of them. And again, you know, keeping options open this is just in case we run into, you know, bumps in the road with the commission but the good thing about having Jason and Aaron work together early in the design process is Aaron can, although she cannot decide for the commission she can and she can advise us on on the setbacks and and design elements. For instance, you know this is like paving a driveway the water needs to go somewhere we have to make sure the water doesn't go into the softball field and or the multi purpose field and create issues there. We also have to account for the water to make sure it's not going, you know, at a velocity or a volume off the site into the wetlands so the good news is this won't be treated asphalt there's going to be no sand or salt on it it's not like a road or even a parking lot where we sand or salt anything so it'll be clean water if you will when it rains it you know Jason will design it in such a way that it drains to the south and then to the west, so that the water goes over toward the wetland where it wants to go. Carolyn's hand is up. This is probably a question for Amy. Is there an orientation that's ideal for players with regard to sun being in their eyes. I believe there is, and I don't know it off the top of my head to be honest, but I feel like that conversation came up at Mill River do you remember Ray. Yeah, the mill river one of the reasons why we like no river was because it is kind of a little tree bowl over there. It doesn't really affect as much here. You want to be worried about sunset, you don't want to have people hitting into directly into the sun. This, this orientation here would be the East players the players on the east would be looking at sundown right into the sun and so. One of the reasons why this that's a, I think that's a fair observation here is that you could lose prime time. If it's the east west orientation because you're looking into the sun. And that's true in the morning to for the other side, which is even harder to do. Yeah. Yeah, so that was going to be my my comment and I remember from the Western Samson presentation on the fields at the high school. I'm certainly recommending the things be oriented north south for the sun reason, the reason that the sun and the other tennis courts, the tennis courts at mill river in the middle school are both oriented north south so I think it's preferable. Even all possible to orient the courts north south. Yeah, that's why we led with the preferred is north south. Yeah, I think that's important. And that came again. Yeah, that was, that was what I was going to say. Sanjay. Thanks, right. A couple of things. So I agree about the orientation of the courts right and Dave I understand you want to get kind of approval from the commission, but also retain some flexibility right as you work with conservation and engineering and dbw etc. I'm a little I have some concern as a member of the commission that we vote to approve. And then the courts may wind up in this orientation for some reason and now the pickle ballers are mad at the commission, because, oh well like the commission you like you let them build courts east west right. So, I don't know if there's a way for us to be really clear about what exactly we're approving. If we don't if we vote to approve. I think, I think I can read it. I think we're fine with the, you know, with the north south orientation, you know I just wanted to show you that we've looked at different shins here. You know, we're going to we're going to price this out we're honestly we'd like to get three courts, I'm not sure we're going to be able to afford three courts that's the ideal. We're going to toss this out and then bid it out. We'll just have to see so we like three courts but can Amy or I guarantee we're going to have three courts. I, I don't think I could say that definitively today but our goal is three courts, and we really want to design for three courts. Maybe we can afford two courts now and we design it and we can add a third court later in the east and the north south orientation. That's all I was just looking for a little flexibility and to show you that we had looked at different options here but we're fine I think with the north south Amy would you agree. Yeah, and I guess the other thing that I was going to throw out was, I don't know if, you know, engineering and and Aaron have looked at it but you know if, if it's, you know we want to make sure north south I wonder you know you look at this orientation and it can be like a two in one. So we can still kind of snug it further away but they can all be oriented north south. Now I don't know, you know, paving wise if that adds more because it's not square instead it's an L shaped, but there might be ways to kind of split the difference with getting things further away from the stream, but still getting everything facing north south. Maybe we could go back to the preferred one, because I think we've heard you loud and clear. We get it. That's our preferred as well. So, as we, as we think about the motion. If it's all right I have a couple more I did see Jonas's hand go up but then down. So maybe that got resolved. Okay. What else was I going to ask. Oh, what is the process by which a butters to the park land. When do they do they when do they get called into this process to be made aware of the plans and be able to provide comment and so on. Ray, I don't know if you want to take that I'm happy to please do David. So yeah, we talked a little bit about that on that as Ray, what's that preferred option back up so we can be staring at it but um, yeah we talked a little bit about that on the site isn't we're out there. I think it's incumbent upon us to kind of go door to door. We don't have enough anymore to, there will be a required a butter notification through the custom, but I think we have to be proactive. And we've got to do we I say we the town. I'm going to lean on Ray, and we need to go door to door knock on some doors out there. If the commission has any advice or guidance or wanted to help with that. I think we would be open to that but I think we need to go door to door and go up and down Stanley Street particularly those people who live within the earshot of what we think is you know the the the whacking of the ball out there for pickle ball because you know if you're read online that is what is the concern right. We never kind of cross that bridge up in Mill River but they're frankly are more closer a butters to Mill River. Then there are here but there are a couple of people just to the north and west on Stanley Street, who I'm particularly, you know, concerned about and how they will view this. So we plan to kind of go door to door and get the word out. If we need to do kind of a neighborhood meeting we could also do that. Thanks. Thank you for investigating other sites and preserving the tennis courts at Mill River. I think that's great and it is in line with, you know, something I said in an earlier meeting where it's great when the town can add recreational opportunities without taking away from another group of users. Much appreciated. And then, and then my final question if I might sort of Matt raised the question of the, or maybe it was Jonas about the cost exchange right between the excavation and the trees and the additional paving. And I do wonder, does the are the existing trees given any value inherent value in the cost assessment. I'll weigh in on this if you want Amy. So, I think what we would have to do is talk to the superintendent talk to go for moreing about, you know, oftentimes in these projects. You know, we, we have the ability as time permits and projects permit to have have the DPW staff help with some of these costs these trees are really huge trees as I said they are in decline. Alan snow our tree warden has already looked at them and they're not public shade trees so they do not have to go through a hearing. But I think if Guilford is agreeable, and we will talk with him, there would likely be the ability of DPW to contribute at no extra cost the tree removal and I can't commit we can't commit tonight to all of the site work but some of the site work that happened at Mill River the basketball courts. So the town often does this, you know, and it's kind of invisible and then we bid out, excuse me we bid out the larger pieces to try to save money for the project. So we're willing to talk with Guilford about the trees, and some of the site excavation, and then we would, we would decide at what point in the, in the construction do we bid out the rest of it. And, and that's a little bit. It's a squishy line right now because we haven't had that conversation with Guilford so I, I don't want to commit to you all but I, I, the conversation is there. So we'll have it with Guilford. My question that was really more not about the costs of removal or site work, but the fact that these these big old trees whether in decline or not. They actually have an inherent value right in terms of the services they provide to the community. You know, cleaning of the air, etc, and whether when the town sort of assesses decisions to remove trees like this is, is that value quantified and part of the calculation. And regarding the sort of determination from Alan, whom I think I think you know Alan and I know each other pretty well. So decline is in the eye of the beholder and I recognize that Alan is a tree professional right. But it's also true from some of the reading that I've done that, in fact, these big trees have their greatest value, in a sense during the latter part of their lives right when they are big and so on so I, I'm not saying I'm going to vote against the pickleball courts for the trees, but I am interested in a more general sense about the process that the town uses in assessing the value of large trees that exist on our public lands when decisions are made to take them down. Oh, it's a great. It's a great question I can say I don't know Amy can help me out here but I think in a situation like this for two trees. I, I'm honestly not involved in that kind of assessment of the carbon sequestration of these two trees. It's, it's an interesting question I honestly don't know if these are resource, you know, these are resource decisions I mean, do we, you know, let me back up. I do not believe keeping those trees and putting the pickleball courts where they are makes any sense from a construction and design standpoint. To be honest, the trees at Mill River near the near the tennis courts, you know, although they offer shade they create a lot of problems for those tennis courts in terms of mold and accumulated leaves and and whatnot so it's not a great relationship to have the trees to these kinds of courts. And this was the one place we could find where, you know, it made sense to put them but we could certainly ask Alan to do take a little look at that and see, but it's a good question. I'll just chime in a little bit I think it's a great question Sanjay and certainly I'm not going to speak for you know for Alan but I know in conversations of all of this. You know, two things one Alan typically, you know, he doesn't take a tree down without making sure that it's replaced somewhere and I understand that that's a new tree not an old tree. But certainly there you know he does at least try to make sure that they are replaced at this site I feel like he was talking about maybe lining like putting some trees in along the driveway, or something like that and so again like that could be part of what your recommendation is just to ensure that that happens. I think that that's something that's already part of the discussion as Alan's looking at this is, you know, not just taking down trees but making sure that we continue to have something to provide some shade out there, and also to have, you know, to not just be removing trees we want to net gain, or a net equal at least. And I would just add to be thinking about, you know, those trees that we plant what does this area look like in 20 years when those trees are more mature than you know a 22 inch caliber or three inch caliber tree. What do they look like 10 years 20 years down the road and that's, you know, that's what Alan does. Thank you. Carolyn. A couple things. First I really like those colors can we get those colors. Oh, that's the color of the. Yeah, like at the basketball courts in the river those colors right. Yes, they are just to the side. More. I'm still unclear about this next step if we. You know, if we really did I know we want to reach some kind of agreement tonight so you guys can move on. But I hear that everyone's wondering I think that, you know, if things change what does that mean, does that mean we have to start get to back up and do it again does it mean it's off the table. So how do we get a statement to vote on that is flexible, maybe contain some contingencies, some recommendations and does that stand up when it comes right down to we need contracts and that kind of thing. I just don't know the process. I think that in crafting, I don't think it's my place to come up with a motion for the commission, but when crafting the emotion, you should be particular about about framing in a way that allows you the authority you want to have, you want to If you want to craft a motion that says it has to be a north south orientation, you want to craft a motion that says that we are putting, we're going to hand over with with restrictions we're going to hand over the spirit of these, these proposed designs to the engineering team that DPW and the engineers and spell out what what control you want to have on the second piece of that, then I would, I would encourage you to think of a motion that that allows you the most piece with that, and then you can vote on that but if you just say, we hear says Kiwanis and we raise our hands and vote on that then the question is what are you authorizing. Right. And what is the safest way to go here, what can we get done to keep the process moving without tying anyone's hands, particularly. Yes, Dave. I'm generally in agreement with with Ray I don't. I'm not I'm not overthinking this I think if the Commission votes, you know, to to can I just I'll just shoot from the hippier but if the Commission votes to have, you know, the town staff. You know, proceed with the design and construction of pickleball courts at Kiwanis Park in a north south orientation, you know and you could put some other caveats in there, you know, the goal of of two to three courts, as presented in the plan on 522 23 and the staff commits to regular reports throughout the process. And you could put in a few more other caveats if you'd like but but I think that's all the framing we need Amy does that work do you think. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. We mentioned a minute ago replacement trees being in there somewhere is that. Sure. This is the place for that. Okay. Does anyone have anything. Yeah. I don't know if we need to have like regular updates I think we should leave the people that know what they're doing the flexibility to do what they got to do and let us know if anything major changes along the way. Ray, you know you all meet monthly Ray could give you a five minute update not a 30 minute update as needed. The one piece, Caroline, that we haven't talked much about is the dollars and cents. So we're not sure at this point how far 120,000 will go, given today's prices compared to you know a couple of years ago when this was approved by CPC and the council. So again, we would that would be part of Ray or staff coming back to you and giving you a report I did mention on the site visit that, you know the town staff may come to the pickleball enthusiasts and organizers and say, you know what that 120 will take us this far. We need another 10,000 we need another 15,000 we just don't know that at this point until we bid it out. So, I just put up that an asterisk that we don't know how far the 120 is going to go. So that would be part of the reporting that Ray could provide for you and, and we'd be in touch with we the town staff would be in touch with the pickleball supporters. There may have to be a little private fundraising that that gets us over the finish line. Does it make sense to just, does it make sense to just ask for that anyway, because it seems when we were in that gathering at the park it seemed like they were that was the ideal with design and fences and you know, upgraded equipment and so forth. And then there was the basic. It almost seems to me like it couldn't hurt to raise some money anyway. Is it fair to do that. I think it is I think I think we're going to run up into that number sooner than we all would like. So I think if we continue to meet with the pickleball folks and we set a goal and and let's, let's see what they might be willing to contribute. So we're working on the, we're working on the infrastructure the walkways, the, the, the, the by two minutes pavement, the lining, you know the fencing, but what about the pickleball nets and other other associated costs. Right. The benches. Yeah, the benches shade structure is not included. Right. You know, I'll go ahead, Kelly. Are you finished? I was just going to say, when we got together, we talked about little creative financing on the part of the town and you also just mentioned that that they may be able to take this from the pavement budget for this in there. We'd like to encourage that. I don't know if there's anything we can do to, you know, we already, Amy and I already, yeah, Amy and I already have that, you know, you know, she can talk to Guilford, but again, we can't fold other things like we can't fold shade structures into that we can't. We can't fold things like that into, into that kind of paving contracts. So this question had come up on our, when we went out and stood out there. The cost relatively minimal looking at the grand scheme of it, but the cost of removing the trees that doesn't get lumped into, into the pickleball cost, does it. I think likely the tree removal that we can do with our staff. Yeah, and so that won't add a cost and to be clear, we can add the pavement to the contractor that's already coming to like the road budget and not put it on the pickleball budget. I just, I want to be clear, we're not adding it to the paving budget and taking away from fixing a street. You know, but if we can take advantage of contractors that are already in town and just say, hey, for a change order, since you're already in town, can you just do this little area for us? That's how we did it up at Mill River. That's what Dave mentioned. Yeah, so that's, that's the, yeah, I just want to be clear. Okay, so that would just be trees and pavement, no weather, nothing else would apply. That's good to know that could help a lot. All right. Well, I just typed in a motion to propose. If people are ready for that. I've been taking some notes of myself, I'd rather come from you than from me so. Okay. You want to hear from Jonas first or yeah, yeah. Jonas go. Yeah, this is the 11th hour interjection here. I'm just a little background. What's the, what's the appetite for pickleball? I believe it's appetite in the town. Just, and I guess it gets to my question of, I think Andrew brought this up a little bit last time. Actually, maybe it wasn't quite his angle, but wondering about if, if these could be constructed without much additional cost to be potentially converted to another use. If say, the appetite wanes for pickleball. So the history, the history of this whole discussion is that $120,000 was approved by the CPA for a proposal to build pickleball courts and the original proposal was some courts at Mill River. And so the $120,000 is approved. And then this is satisfying that CPA request. But the reason we're voting here is because it's different than the original CPA request. Thanks. So that's two hands. Okay. Matt, would you mind sharing the proposed motion. To approve town staff proceeding with the design of two or three pickleball courts at Kiwanis Park in a north south orientation. Any trees removed should be replaced at Kiwanis Park. Okay. So design, I think I'd add construction too. Okay. Design and construction. Yep. And what, what you said trees, how about the pavement piece that we need to mention that as a separate budget item. I mean, as a not our budget item. Do we, I don't know. No, I don't understand what piece you're talking about. The things that Amy just said would not be part of the pickleball budget. We're pavement, possibly pavement and tree removal. And you just mentioned tree. No, I think she did say she said that. Well, I don't, I don't know if we need to. Well, she said that the pavement would be part of the pickleball budget as a change order to another contract. Oh, I see. Okay. We're going to try and get the economy of scale of the contractor that's already in town, so it'll be less expensive, but I can't roll that into the money that's set aside for improving roads, you know, so it has to be out of this budget. Got it. Sorry if that was confusing before. No, I'm sure it wasn't but just to me. All right, I like that Matt, I think it sounds good. I think that piece was at your hand. I think that that that piece is kind of under the study part and maybe that we can just say something like you know when maximizing the budget based on some of the assets that we can take advantage from the town that like Amy was saying something to that effect. In other words that 120,000 is great and whatever we can get for free or or you know piggyback benefit on something else would be helpful. Will that matter to the town. Dave. Can you say that again you said. Just put something in the motion about, you know, to try to maximize the budget using existing assets and other opportunities that are happening in the town during this process. I think that's fine we're going to we're going to try to work and stretch dollars and. Yeah, I think in general that that is how we do stuff so if you want to put that in that's again that that's what we're going to do anyway because we want to get you as much as possible for this dollar amount. Yeah. So as an example, I mean we just did some DBW was was kind enough to just do some drainage work up at the dog park that you know that was a complicated project on the landfill cap. We had some money left over in an account for the dog park, but not enough to hire contractors so DPW did the work. We paid X number of thousands of dollars the town paid X number of thousands of dollars for all the materials and DPW went in and a day and a half two days with Jason overseeing it and we hopefully solved the drainage issue in the, in the big dog area so that's how we try to stretch dollars and make all of our tax dollars go further and get things done. So put anything into your motion that is the responsibility of report on direct director on myself. There's developments Dave mentioned you know to have the director be able to report back at the commission meetings and say this is where they are there's been a slight change or anything like that do you do you want to have that. What is what do you want to have commission for oversight over this process information or oversight. That was like Dave said that's kind of part of the process anyway so I don't think we need to make it part of the motion. Keep it simple. Okay, so I added another sentence. The town should use best efforts to use existing Ross should make I should change it the town should make best efforts to use existing resources. Too many. I'm tripping over the grammar here to make the pickleball budget go as far as possible. Like how many mics and best and everything. Can you just say it should use its best effort to make the pickleball courts as affordable as possible to keep them within the budget. Yes. It's like the simpler. The better just because we don't want to chip ourselves over. Davey it looks like you have a comment. I was going to say I like what you said Carolyn to keep to keep the pickleball budget to keep the pickleball court construction within budget. Recognizing that there may need to be private fundraising, because I just don't want somebody to look at this four months from now and say but the town said we could do it all for 120. You know, we'll have all been on this meeting but the motion will say something different so we know this budget is going to be stretched so why not acknowledge it in this motion. There's also this is probably shouldn't be part of this but let me ask you I think I heard us agree that we could go back to the CPA for additional money, but that wouldn't be spring. We can, we can always do that as always an option but I mean you all know the timeline on that is proposals go in in the fall. You actually wouldn't we that no one would see that money until July 1 of 2024. It's an option but I'd love to avoid all of us. Or better nets or something like that it's a possibility. Yeah, okay. It's always there but would be quicker. Okay. Any other comments about the statement as it stands. So now I have the town should use its best efforts to keep the pickleball courts within budget as far as possible with the possibility of requiring some private fundraising. Okay. Or with the understanding that some private fundraising maybe necessary. It's perfect. Okay, so I think that all we need to do now is to have a motion to vote. And I know the motion is waiting for the words mess processing to happen here but. Okay. I move. Can I read it first. You should read the statement before anybody votes. I move that we approve town staff proceeding with the design and construction of two or three pickleball courts at Kiwanis Park in a north south orientation. Any trees removed should be replaced at Kiwanis Park. The town should use its best efforts to keep the pickleball courts within budget as far as possible with the understanding that some private fundraising maybe necessary. That satisfy town hall David. Yeah, that sounds fine. Is that is there anything that we're missing in that. Then. That was the motion is there a second. I second. Motion has been seconded by Carolyn. All in faith. Should I roll call vote or visual. Raise of hands. Raise of hands. We have everybody on camera. Please raise your hand if you vote affirmative. The motion is unanimous by the five attendees. Motion passes. Go get him. And so I will be in conversation with DPW and Amherst, the town of Amherst engineers with town hall about moving forward next steps in this process. Thank you commission. It's been a long sort of process of having conversations this. I hope this feels as good to you all as it feels to me that that felt like action. So we it's now our responsibility to follow up and make sure that that continues. Any questions wrap that up. Any questions on on sort of where we are with that or can we move on through the agenda. As usual, the agenda is such situated. Yes. And David and Amy are certainly free to stay or go as you wish. I will move you back to the panel. Thank you very much. We appreciate it and we will keep you posted. You know, there's a lot of work ahead of all of us. So this is just kind of the beginning of trying to really build these, these courts. I will say I want to put one plug in for field improvements at the middle school, high school and community field because really honestly 10 years from now, I would love to see that Kiwama spark is not all in our field rotation. I just, every time I'm out there I can't believe that field it's just, it is, it is a really rough surface out there I know I really truly believe we should improve the fields at the middle school high school and community field and not invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in fields, you know, south and east so that's my plug. I'd love to see a new track and a new field of some kind in a in between and in the middle of an eight lane track. We got to keep moving on that and keep working on that. So, imagine a day where the, where the, where the high school fields with the regional fields and a community field are as that drain as well relatively dry like Kiwanis Kiwanis is popular because it's flat and it's dry, but that rates this problem so we do I echo this is sentiment there. Maybe a big pickleball complex with like 25 courts there or something. I was going to say a pool, but okay. This is where we find out where 50 meter pool. Oh, I think Amy and I have to leave this. Thank you very much. We got to leave. Thank you both. Thanks guys in here. Okay, the next thing on our agenda pavilions and pools as is Denise with us. She is. As I bring as I elevate her to, I'm excited to make the introduction help bring her on, bring her board. You do try Carolyn, Carolyn, I sit down to put the agenda together to think about trying to there's always stuff at the end that we say we can table if we want to or can turn into something else so so we'll try and catch up on our agenda here if if we can but if not and don't be too stressed about the timing. I'm going to bring forward to the panel. Denise Leckinby told me it would be quick and it would happen right when I said it would be like she punches on the screen right when I said. So Denise is here. This is the first time I've had a chance to introduce her officially to the commission Denise is our aquatics coordinator. She's been a very welcome to we lose. You might have lost Matt in here somewhere. Oh, Matt's here. He's a participant now. Yeah, I've got him coming up now. So, Denise, Denise came on last spring to take the role of aquatics coordinator. And I always like to have somebody other than me come and give some of our program reports anyways, but we are about to reach the really really decision time into our pool seasons here so I did. This was the perfect opportunity to put Denise before you. I have the first, I guess, Denise do you want to say anything about yourself and your role in the season here. So I came in last spring with a pitch for a wreck team for third grade through seniors and Ray graciously and warmly accepted the interest that I was carrying with me from some of the other swim communities in the area. I was oriented around youth sports. Since then I've started also coaching a master's adult group at Hampshire College to try to diversify some of our cool indoor pool rental situations and not keep us tied entirely to arms. And I came on as aquatics coordinator with Ray in, I think, around Halloween so since then I've been bolstering up and programming with the staff to increase the quality of the curriculum for our youth lessons. And now we're getting our outdoor pools underway so Carolyn segue with wanting a 50 meter pool in Western Massachusetts things to my ears. And yeah we're excited to get the outdoor pools going and share with you a little bit about what we've been working on this past few months and what we're looking forward to for the summer months. So I can, I can share, I'm looking at our agenda right now and I can share. I highlighted capital because the pools and Cherry Hill are the two biggest recipients of our of our capital interest or capital requests. So into all of that, necessarily right now but both of them have been have been the focus for us in terms of specially war memorial has been a concern for us. That was a CPAC concern that has been capital is less, it was less the pools right now because CPAC did come back favorably for the for the pool developments with the in terms of our assets we constantly are talking about managing the assets that the town gives recreation, and those two pools are two of our more profitable assets. We, we, I bring to the commission. I've spoken to Carolyn about it a few times I've spoken to Denise about it frequently about trying to find a way to make sure that as we move forward with those two pools and wars and the is in the weakest shape right now but that we that we think about structuring and building revenue in the future. In terms of our season, we can skip pavilions pavilions are opening I can, I can tell you that that's that's all I need to share about that right now in terms of dates the pavilions at the parks are going to be open and those are, those are sort of first come first serve schedules through the department, but I wanted Denise here, particularly to share with us sort of the opening schedules. Ideas about, about, you know, so what the season brings to us and any sort of new or returned activities that are going on this summer spring and summer. So, I kind of felt like this, and this could be me as a parent of young people. But I feel like this summer is the first summer we're going to feel like we are post coven, even if our practices are still somewhat safe and I know that as a person who managed a large swim team through shut down that the pools were a super safe place to exercise, but in terms of capacity and modeling of our school schedules both at mill and at war. So I really returned, kind of dialed back the clock and to think about what was going well in 2019, rather than looking back to 2022 or 2021 which I think should not have, they just weren't valid models for how I thought the pools could be both staffed and learned how we could think about who can be in that space. The happy thing for the past three years is COVID and chlorine do not enjoy one another so those of us who are swimmers we felt really confident and safe, experiencing that as our exercise outlet and outdoors, even better. And I met a number of weeks ago and had a great chat about my brainstorms about the pool usage. And she shared with me and her community outreach, some of the perspectives on how we allocate the time so I see my role as number one balancing the person that I am which is a lap swimmer. As well as thinking about the youth programming that we've already had underway this winter at arms but we need to continue that. We think about the camp, the camp usage and so we're working with a variety of camps not just embedded in the rec department to make sure that the open swims are available to them. And then youth lessons which in my other life, I'm also in public health and having a community of swimmers at all ages is a public health necessity. So making sure that there's access for those lesson times with strong staff and a great curriculum is kind of like it's where my heart lives and it's what I think my mandate is in my capacity is aquatic coordinator. So predominantly I've shifted her some of Carolyn's recommendations and also gathering feedback from some of my swimmers that swim with me or I swim with predominantly we're really moving things back to that 2019 model where war is carrying a lot of the open swim weight, that will be the pool where the lifeguards are going to be putting band-aids on and telling people not to run. There will be some lessons at Mill River but overall Mill River is going to see a lot more of the lap swim time. And you know we're kind of making shifts and moves as people come to us and say, hey, we'd like to bring 15 to 20 kids from our camp in over the course of this two and a half hour block to accommodate them and make sure that I'm covering the staff situation in an appropriate and safe way. My other intention that some of you probably haven't had a chance to take a look at is like we're trying to update the website and make things really clear on when, when's lap swim at this place and when's open swim available to me and so that people throughout the summer can go to find the information that they need from us, as well as turning my staff to be a little more public facing. I think we've had a really great experience this winter and spring with some really lovely lifeguards and swimmers who are teaching the kids how to be in the water. And I'm hoping to carry that work ethic into what happens at Mill and war. So I've got a great crop of wonderful young people who are going to be working for me this summer. And you already mentioned when I mentioned expansion, you already mentioned about expanding our programs Amherst United of course is now very much. It's one of us it's not it's not a test case it's a it's a rec program, and the master swim program was I think it's moving that same direction. I've talked about bringing back movies to the pool this summer we've talked about trying to make the pools, if highlight that same energy about sort of sort of we're back to to pools being what the pool should be trying to make sure we sort of bottle that energy and keep that at the at the pools the way they need to be. And so things like the movie night the pool is is one of my favorite parts of the brainstorming process. We are back in a partnership with the survival center to provide access so part of this is some community outreach also to provide access for the survival center to to provide free passes to to survival center users. And so we saw a number of passes redeemed at the at the pools last summer we anticipate will probably be roughly the same rate this year. Which we've enjoyed that they've they've reached out for us we I really appreciate their support. And so that's that's part of that's another piece of what we what we think the role of the pool is beyond trying to juggle all the interest that we know are inside of our walls. Sanjay. Hi, I'm Ray and thanks Denise for the updates on swimming. I want to just ask about something you said in perhaps a slightly off hand way in the introduction Ray. You mentioned that the pools were one of the most profitable segments of the Amherst rec portfolio. And I just want to, I wanted to ask whether they are they profitable or they the largest revenue generators, revenue generators. Thank you. You actually, you actually corrected me on my first meeting on that exact same thing. Okay, so I've clearly have not come that far. As soon as you raise your hand and started saying that I said I think I know where this is going. Yes, I, you're correct. Okay, and I actually don't recall having done that to you before. To be clear, I raised that point not because I object to, not because I think that recreation programs should be profitable right, but rather that I, I think Amherst rec should, Amherst rec should generate revenue right period. But I think when we use the word profit, maybe slightly offhandedly it can, it can lead to misunderstandings that get then gives people ammunition to pick at other programs that are. Thank you. Yeah, that, I mean, that don't break even but to even use that phrase I mean break even is not the goal of a recreation department. You're correct. Sanjay, you were correct. You, if, if that was your way of auditioning for the next chair role then I know I do appreciate that that I misspoke, what I did mean was revenue producer. Thank you. And so, any questions, comments, observations for Denise LaPoules. Yes, hi Denise was a great presentation. There you are seeing a good amount of interest in life guarding. I was, is that that's good news if that's true. I am and I'm some of this could just be the web of high school age swim swimmers that I know I was the high school coach for Amherst this past year. So this feels a little bit like an extension of my mentorship relationship with them that this is, you know, their, their new first job. And this is a great one for them so I'm excited for the crowd that's returning from last summer, and then the upswell of interest in newcomers as in addition. I'm excited. I'd heard there were shortages, I don't know in past years so I think you have. I certainly got the impact of the shortage is this winter. It's hard, hard during the school year to have a solid rotation of folks to teach lessons on weeknights and weekends but summertime is opening up which feels really good. And Sanjay similar like I really appreciate your profitability versus revenue generating and you know that's something I've been really mindful with pools are extremely expensive, I mean, whether it's the hour to rent it upkeep. So I think that while I'm new in the position I'm well versed in how much even just running the United REC team costs and working with Jose and Ray to make sure that even though the pool costs are expensive that we and now we are as a swim team generating some some revenue. We're folding that big back into as best we can folding that back into the whole rec community so that swimming isn't this separate thing like where my aim is to have a really strong rec swim program that supports soccer supports basketball. We all pitch in and fundraise and in similar manners so that our kids are one community and the financial streams are one community whereas rec swimming and Amherst for 40 years lived in its own little bubble. And I'm really excited that we get to do this underneath the rec umbrella. For all athletes, not just swim athletes. We're lucky to have you Denise. Oh, thank you for saying that here and I'm happy to be here. Great. And she won't let that go. But I'll follow up. Matt. Yeah, sounds great. Denise sounds like you're really getting getting your hands all over this problem. That's great. I'm not sure exactly what the commission is asked to provide here. We just, I mean obviously it's nice to hear this stuff but do you want ideas. Do you want, is there some kind of capital that was in the agenda something about capital haven't heard anything about that. What do you want from us. I don't, I don't know that there is an ask this was more of a for me this was more of a program report. It is an ask for. Okay, to invest in something right now for us. When I mentioned the capital, I was going to look at trying to update where we were on the you through CPAC you obviously you know the interest that the pools had in renovating war memorial and renovating the space that they have. This was not a request for a commission, a subcommittee from the commission to pursue, like we've talked about with pickleball like we've talked about our men or what have you. Okay, I do have a I do actually do have a question. Is it sort of the utilization is the utilization like really high like we don't have enough full space to fit all of our programs or is the utilization like, well we have these lifeguards sitting there and there's only one person in the pool. I can say that there is that we are trying to juggle a lot of different interests Denise kind of mentioned it there for in her presentation that the culture clash between folks that are splashing water and play, and folks that are lapsing folks, everybody wants time inside folks that have long access to the pools and people who are were one of the few towns where every town doesn't have accessible outdoor pools. And so we have people come to us from other towns that sometimes make the traffic a little bit more by free, some, a couple of free days last summer, because it got to be blistering hot. And that also brings more people to the pools. Technically, this is an under Denise's purview but technically the splash pad is also operated by DPW with with our, with our cooperation. And so, there are a lot of people that have designs on time at the pools. Denise, I think is in her first run through this has done a remarkable job of, of juggling those and trying to make sure that there's time and space for everybody to be happy and everybody to feel like they're giving something and I think she's both scheduled it's filled with compromise. Okay. Well, maybe I can ask Denise some more specific question. The lessons fall. They are approaching full for the month of June, folks are not yet planning. I mean I, they're, they're filling throughout the summer but for June is filling yes. Your comment about like, I guess you just have, because you've only been in the position since you weren't in the position last year right. No, this is my first summer. So your plan when you your comment about planning on 2019 versus 20. That's your terms that you're what you're what you're referring to is like how many lifeguards you're going to put out there and like, yeah, what what you're going to do for the lap swim. So in 2019 is your understanding that the open swim and the lap swim were fairly well utilized. That's my understanding. Mary and Ray and I have been working on gathering data which is my other big to do list for this summer to truly see to capture the data of who's using the pool when someone someone someone just mocks when I answer. Yeah, we're going to have a swipe the swipe cards and the memberships versus the drop in swims at 10am versus 2pm like I'm going to gather that data this summer, so that we can truly utilize the pools in the pool before in a manner that fits the community's need. So right now, I've used 2019 as my best model for how we should allocate the pool between open swim lap swim team swim lessons. And we're going to gather that data through the through a new system this summer. No, it's not available to me. You said, okay. So, given all the activities that you're juggling through the pools. Where do you think. What do you think is the best way to generate more revenue to help out all of the other things that are happening in rec. Yeah, I mean I think it's a balance. I'll be interested to see how what the numbers truly land upon. I know the passion of the lap swimming community. I think it's about where the financial support rises up to where, you know, while we're our overarching aim is always to keep this financially accessible to every family, regardless of their ability to swipe that card. So the lap swimmers who value that our swim versus a family member who needs wants to come and have open swim accessible like where does that come and who does it tax most heavily. So if we're thinking about free and reduce lunch families making sure that that's still part of our community. We think about access as well in terms of not just Amherst residents, but children from out of town may not have lessons access in their lessons offered in their community that we are here to provide that for them as well. You know I don't have the data on where the revenue stream is going to be strongest and then the discussion for I think that I'll hopefully be sitting with you all in September about is to present that data. I would say, as a rec community a rec minded community. What is our mission, like public health wise, I know where my mission would lie in terms of increasing access, increasing water safe, a water safe community, and the best way to do that may conflict with the stream. But that's a mission vision question that we can have when we have this data. While also supporting the needs and asks of the, the tax paying community of the town of Amherst to has these valuable assets the pools pools are in Western Mass are far and few between. It's hard to find lap swim team it's hard to find lap swim hours, and during the summer months Amherst can do it so I'm going to try to do it as well as I can. Thanks. I'm going to turn it over. I know Sanjay had a question he wanted to ask her also in response to sort of what the commission can do here. I think one of the reasons why this is useful for me in presenting to the commission. To be certain it was mad that actually asked the question see pack, which was the reason why we started talking about data driven support for the pools here, but we were asked in the CPA proposals. Do we need to pulse. What is, what is the need for for our having two pools, do we, should we be looking at at reducing is it is it cost worthy to reduce and move down to one pool. Do we, is it costs too much to operate these two and so my, my immediate automatic response to the question was, of course we wanted to we want three pools we'd rather have three than one. Yes, I'm telling myself through the answer the question and following my staff. I'm saying that we need to gather some data to make sure that we know if the question is what, what is the use of our assets, and we want to have that information available. So that's the first question I've had that question a few times it's not like that was the first time it wasn't the last time that we've been asked, sort of that question about how, what do we value about the spaces that we operate right now. And that's an approach to answer that question that helps the commission, if, if the question becomes more pointed than, than sort of a response to our proposal or, or just a spitball for minded spitball by town manager, or day Zomek or if somebody is asking us, what do you think about, about, you know, the use of these pools, I think that helps us answer that question in a way that's honest and supports what we think is the vision for recreation. Sanjay. Thanks right. This is I'll sort of address this at Denise but it really will turn into a broader question about youth sports and Amherst rec. I don't know much about swimming. We're not a swim family, but I'm pretty interested in lots of different youth sports as most of the people here know and as Ray definitely knows. It sounds like there's a new swim team in town, operated by you, Denise and by Amherst recreation department. So I'm seeing nodding that sounds great. Yep, two thumbs up from a from a non swimmer to thumbs up. You refer to it as the rec team. And I'm aware that rec is often code for the not very good team. And I wonder if Amherst rec as it, you know, continues to offer competitive programs and may even offer more competitive programs could think about a way of identifying the teams that does not carry the rec tag. So, I'd be interested in comments about whether my observation is correct about the use of the rec tag with respect to swimming specifically or more generally, and then second, and maybe it doesn't have to be tonight we're already over now. And half but at some point, like so what, what are our teams are they the junior hurricanes. What are what are they. So, so from my, I'll stay in my lane, literal swim lane here. Caroline can get that one too. So, I don't feel. I feel pretty intensely committed to the fact that rec swimming is not the not so great swimming. Number one, our programming is committed to the belief that swimming can be a mind body connection that kids, the kids may not be able to find in a club or travel swim environment which would be the, if we were going to label things that would be like USA swimming. And then mental health being a key component of what we can offer in a rec environment where the aggression aggressive competitive achievement time oriented focus on swimming is tends to be the club scene in New England swimming and USA swimming. We have kids on the team that are neuro divergent, we have kids on the team who are coming to us and saying we've never been welcomed in an athletic environment, and this is our first experience where we feel safe and happy and that's all that I want from this team So it's, it may not be achievement oriented in the way that the good team that the varsity team is the travel team is, but we're providing space and time and a physical outlet that in some ways is the perfect foil to the screen that the kids experience all day long. So with this you'll hear my passion on just how much I love swimming. But I think that that mission and vision for all rec sports for all youth is what I hope to be a part of. And I hope we're changing the perspective within Amherst United that we're not the, the not so good team. I think that we're building something that's really lovely. What's your response. Well, just, yeah, just in response to, you know, the, the wreck. Reputation kind of that we all have from our past. I'm always confused by the names of our swim teams. Is this Amherst United you're talking about. Yes, team. Okay, so if we were to call it Amherst United, no one would think of it as a lesser team. We just need to drop that wreck piece. Can we do that? I mean, with that, with that satisfied Sanjay, the kind of reputation for wreck that you're, you're thinking about. Well, and Jonas, I don't mean to cut you off here if you want to take your turn, go ahead. Well, I'm just, I'm just wondering. Is this going to be Denise will this be a wreck league. So you will be quote unquote competing. Oh yeah. We're part of the western mass swim league that's 40 or 50 years old. Yeah, we're part of that. That's not designated as wreck. Is it, I mean, maybe people. No, no, there's why MCAs and not everyone is affiliated with a specific town. They're private teams that join their town teams that join but it's. So, if Carolyn, I'll try to respond to you I think the short answer is yes. Like, to me, like Amherst United that sounds like a pretty cool name. Sign me up. I can just speak from my experience running baseball and skiing to some extent in town essentially the first question I get from anyone who doesn't know what we do is, oh, are you a travel program. And I like hate that question, more than I can even express in words. Why, why, why, why is there this unnecessary imposition of a hierarchy on youth sports, where the, the good sports are the ones that involve hours of driving around the state and region on weeknights. The less good sports, the less good teams are the ones that are run by wreck departments. It's, it's nonsense, and it's destructive, in my opinion to children and to families. So the short answer Carolyn is yeah I think Amherst United is a great name for a swim team. We should call it that as much as possible. The bigger question, I think that I was trying to pose is whether, and whether the Amherst Recreation Department might come up with a uniform. I hesitate to use this word but you know where I'm headed branding. For its teams, right, that would, that would participate in the casting aside of this unnecessary and destructive hierarchy of youth sports organizations, and now take off my pontification hat and be quiet for a little while. Yeah, we always appreciate the pontification. The, I can, I know I want to try and be respectful of time here, I think, either a couple of angles in that I want to share. Number one is, is my coach, a lacrosse team, fifth and sixth grade lacrosse team, third and fourth grade lacrosse team I have across right now. You all mostly know. He's definitely knows I coach her daughter. We let them both my years we let them choose their own name. We let them choose their own team name. They don't have to be the junior hurricanes or whatever and so a lot of energy goes into kids at the youth level trying to brand themselves to give themselves an identity and give themselves a give themselves a name and identify this my team and we voted on this and so we turned it into what we do they as soon as we started a new year they said are we going to vote for a new name this year and they they chosen name we are the Amherst we are the Amherst artifacts. I don't know what our parks do or what sound they make but we're going to explore that and research. There is some creativity I don't, I wouldn't try and there's so much independence among our different sports teams in the first place to force each of the teams to become something that's external I think that there's a power for youth and creating their own, their own sort of identity. I will say that I'm with Sanjay on the on the hierarchies and the frustration I heard the frustration there. Maybe the only place where we hear it more than baseball would be basketball. So we're the tearing off of rec versus travel sort of stuff comes in but baseball has a legend has a not just here all over the place has this hierarchy of record rec means lesser. Yeah, but it's there but it's there in soccer. We know those that those hierarchies exist. I will tell you that without doing the research first. We aren't putting the rec label on on swimming I think, and my interactions Denise my interactions with swimmers. They, they're, they, they refer to themselves as rec in a way that it like that that hierarchy hasn't come in and and corrupted that for them, maybe because there isn't like a simple choice there that we offer a traveling team and a rec program and I think that is worth, I think the feedback is worthwhile for us to make sure we tiptoe and avoid people, you know, sort of sort of stepping into the whole this isn't serious or this isn't, this isn't something that we want to do here, but I've always been leery and I'm probably going way well outside of sport into like, like my own life issues but I've always been leery of a zoom room full of people that aren't me determining what I should call myself. And then there's another from that are thinking about what it might mean externally or what it might look like and what it might sound like for the labels that I embrace and choose if, if this is something that Amherst United AU is gold. If, if something that Amherst United is just refer some shorthand is rec all the time we did rebrand ourselves as rec the rec department. And so I think that's also part of the reason why we do it and I didn't to, you know, haven't had a second thought about it. But if it's if it's something that it was put on them and they're like I don't like this wreck thing I feel like this lesser than we should be changing it immediately. But if it's something that is embraced by the group. I don't want to force them to be self conscious about a label that they've chosen for themselves. It's a badge of dishonor. I haven't sensed Denise could certainly respond to it but I haven't sensed that they that they view it as a tearing of of their ability or comparison to others. No, and because so we're afforded, we can so number one the hierarchy piece lands on solid. I'm hearing you and feeling you Sanjay for sure the sports industrial complex and the pipelines of youth athletics and USA swimming is really. It's hard to challenge the machinery of what and how United States swimming prowess occurs on a global scale it takes the pyramid that has been built within USA swimming, and to carve back, at least in New England and in the US strength in town based community base like I love that Jonas put community team community based swimming that is participatory that is encouraged that is open to all, and not necessarily be part of that pipeline is really for me, and I am the mom of two swimmers who may or may not end up in some capacity swimming long, long, I mean I'm a product of USA swimming so it's a, it's a troubled relationship. I think understanding is important. I think my the clarity and care with which I've tried to write the statements about the mission for our team and Amherst United the title the name was chosen by our kids it's like a community decision that we have multiple towns feed into the Amherst schools and we're united. Yeah, I mean, again, I go on and on but I, I think this conversation is a meaningful one for all of us about what we want to support when it comes to competition in a community based athletic environment. I admire the way described the openness of the program and the way you've now described the use of the term united, and I like it's none of my business I'm not even a swim family but like, what if you could serve all those kids and you could beat the tritons. Right. I know that's now going to be a public record and there are going to be some people angry at me but I'm not a recovering tritons family but it's more about creating a healthier environment. I understand. And I'm really the other piece I want to say to the recognition is that be law as now belonging and having started a team that is part of the Amherst town and the wreck community that this wreck opportunity for swim can never be taken away from the kids of Amherst, whether I'm there or some other coaches here, like this is, I want to make sure this is embedded in the opportunities that kids have in Amherst for 20 30 years from now, as opposed to a standalone entity that can be carried towards one direction or another. So yeah, we're, we're, it's a happy, it's a happy crowd I can report that. Well thank you again Denise. I am going to whirlwind through the last I know we're well over the time here I'm going to whip through the end. Any questions about our aquatics offerings about our aquatic season. If there's any ideas that anybody has about working with Denise working with Carolyn of course Carolyn is is comes the end of her terms are on commission but if you're looking for people who have ideas about how to best maximize our resources and aquatics please bring them up with myself or Denise. Reach out we're looking for ideas we're looking for people to task themselves into our lives at least. Thank you Denise. And so I'm going to Denise I'm going to put you on the panel you can come or go there nobody will know. I mean they'll put you off the panel. Wait, where am I panelists. So I can, I, like I said it is important for me, we're not the school committee we don't need to be here for five hours. My next agenda was July 4. I will tell you that I and myself are going over to UMass to on the first Wednesday of June. They had to get through their graduation season we have that I told you last time we have to date we have all of our, our nuts and bolts are in place. We are, we just sent out math. We're going to send out math set the mailings sponsorship letters requests to the community so those have gone out and we're going to be following up to try and to try and draw in some of the sponsorships here this week. But all of the planning is going to be going on. It's going to already happened but the but putting sitting down with UMass our host for the event is going to be going on in about a week. We are putting together those those if anybody here knowing I know I've always sort of said if anybody is willing to volunteer you can certainly reach out to us. Haley Bolton, the director of the senior center is is our coordinator volunteers if anybody wants to volunteer you can certainly reach out to me or specifically to her. But more, more so commission if you know people who are looking for volunteer opportunities if you know anybody if you have, if you have networks of folks that you can reach out to and drop the need could be variety, a variety of different needs, but if you know people who might be interested in volunteering. Please send them my way or to Haley Bolton at the senior center. I think I can, I can wrap that up by just saying I am pretty encouraged that this is going to be a pretty good event. The seven o'clock agenda item was rec commission which I will turn over to Carolyn really quickly we intentionally put left this at the end because it is our little homework worksheet sort of thing but I like the way we're moving towards a commission that that can take on projects or start to steer some of our philosophy of how we're doing things but especially looking at our resources and looking at the voice that we have been empowered with in in town is as sort of the arbiters of all things of all recreation facilities and property. Carolyn would you like to jump in. All I would add is that maybe I'm leaving out some stuff that you wanted to include but I think the mission statement will help us once we get that done will help us understand why we're here why each of us is here what we bring to it. So if you have questions needed. I'm only starting to understand that with this pickleball project and then for that reason, I encourage anyone to get involved in a pet project because you learn so much about the way the town works. And I didn't have a clue. Anyway, Jean did do a draft of the mission statement and Ray and I took a look at it. And it was a really good start it just kind of explains that we're here for the kids, mostly in the community. I also wanted to add a little bit about that we're being an advisory board for Ray and for the department. So we're still working on that. We're not going to cover it tonight. We'll probably bring it up again in June. And, you know, before the end of this meeting, which should be any minute now I think we need to decide what we're doing for in June. We talked about getting together outdoors somewhere. See if everyone's interested in that. And if so what, when, where. So I guess that just brings us to whether is there there's any new business things we didn't cover that somebody else has no on their minds. Absence of new business. And it will be use of and Carolyn's last commission meeting in June. As Carolyn just said we kind of flow the idea of meeting in person of sitting down someplace going to one of our gorgeous facilities someplace going sitting on the deck at Cherry Hill or going out to sit in the pavilions and one of the places and sort of having a meeting there before they leave. I am certainly open to that can throw up dates right now. We are late in May right now so I think we should probably give ourselves it pushes right on the verge of July 4, but if we want to do like the store second last week of June, I think that would make sense. What's that Monday. What's the calendar. June, the last Monday is the 26th of June. For me, anyone else. I can do it. Six, or anybody who is a verse to meeting in person. I'm okay with I just won't be here that week. Oh, you won't be here that week. Family vacation. Y'all can come to the Long Beach Island if you want. We do. You want to look at the 19th instead. I'm away that week. Yeah, I don't want to contort. Yeah, the first the first option. Go. Okay, the 26. We don't want to cut use of out of his last meeting. So we will hold for Monday, the 26th of June. Does he might want to move for a site or does anybody want to move that we. That we select a site at a later date. I think it'd be nice to just decide on a site now if we can all agree on something. I guess, you know, as far as weather goes. We're covered either way. We're covered either way at Cherry Hill indoors or out. We could certainly meet inside a cherry. If it's raining and we're inside, then the, it probably won't be. Bothering too many people if it's raining, but it's, but. The pavilion at mill. Could be an option. Well, how about doing planning for Cherry Hill? And if it's a rain date, we go to the pavilion at mill river. Great idea. Perfect. So the deck, the deck at Cherry Hill. Okay. And that'll be set up, whatever. Do they sell food or should we bring food or should we skip food? Or what do you want to do about that? They sell beer and wine. We can bring it. Good enough. We're done. So we could bring, could bring everyone bring their own snack, bring a snack to share. I mean, Who has an opinion on that? Love a pizza delivered. We can. Sounds good. I could, I could order pizza. Great. Lovely. Okay. Seven or six. So I say six. Anybody else. Since we're eating. Okay. Okay. Sanjay. Yep. That's good. There's a, there's a, there's some chance that there will be a tournament baseball game that night, but there's no reason. I can't know that until just before. So we should go ahead. Okay. You can come watch the baseball game if there is one. Is it a mill? It would be. You can come eat pizza while you're coaching or whatever you're doing. That would be a pretty cool consideration. Come out and heckle you. Okay. So. I guess we just. That goes, goes in the minutes and in the announcement for next time around. We have new members coming or not. Anybody new on the. On the wait list or we getting in? Not yet, but I do have some meetings held. I have some meeting times held for interviews. Okay. All right. So June 26, six o'clock at Cherry Hill deck, unless it's raining in which case we go to Mill River Pavilion. Perfect. And watch Sanjay play in the rain. Okay. That's good. Okay. Anybody want to meet or reach out just, just, you know, how to get a hold of me. Thanks everybody. All right. Meeting adjourned. Yeah. Good night.