 Hi everyone, welcome You go first. Okay. Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm Stefan Prodan. I'm flux maintainer for a very long time and I'm here with Alexis and we are going to You know discuss about the flux future and how everybody here can help us drive flux forward All of you Yes Who are you? You did yourself so I'm Alexis I used to work with Stefan. Sadly, we shut we've worked down at the start of the year But many people said what does this mean for flux? So we hope to answer that today talk about wherever the maintainers gone. What are they doing and what's that? What's next for the project and then hopefully find ways to Have more people contributing to the project and helping the maintainers Chop wood and carry water. I think it's the popular phrase still. Yeah, we have a plan then to that we want to share with you today and Let's do the zoom check. It's the zoom working. Some people might be joining by zoom It's working. Yes. Okay, great. Thank you for joining by zoom. Thank you Okay, so the agenda for today. I will start with giving you an overview of the Status of the project where we are today was the current team and Talk about maintenance effort and how we can make that sustainable in the future hopefully very soon and Alexis will take over from there and talk about flux ecosystem and all the tools around flux and how we can you know make the ecosystem better and Bring back into flux the good things from the ecosystem Yeah, so we hope to show you a bit about what's been happening there Maybe some folks who've who've considered themselves in the ecosystem have come today or joined by zoom They may may wish to talk about what they're doing Also, there are people like I see I think I can see last low over there from gimlet who've done things like a flux Gooey, so if you want to there he is he's moved. I can't see anything up here by the way So I could only hear you If people want to work on a gooey There's a think there's a thing to do this we'll talk about that kind of thing as well. Yeah Okay, let's Pick it off with I'm going to tell you a little bit about how flux team is composed of and how our community Drives contributions to flux. So currently we have since we started flux virgin 2 we have a pool of Over 600 contributors from there We recruited 11 maintainers and From those 11 maintainers eight of those are core maintainers. So I'm going to give you a little bit of Explanation what maintainer and core maintainer means flux is made out of many controllers Go packages is quite a complex system so a maintainer is a person that contributes to one Component of flux and says yes, I want to you know Take responsibility for that component and that's a maintainer the core maintainer is someone that Has a wide understanding of what flux as a whole is doing and the main role of a maintainer is of a core maintainer is to you know help with all the Contributions recruit people from contributors convince them to became a maintainer of A sub project and then convince them again to became a core maintainer and you know have oversight over the whole project We have a governance in place for for the flux project. We we did that right before graduation where The core team Everybody is part of our governance. So everybody that gets on the core team We have equal rights Inside the project and we make decisions around how we drive the project forward What futures can go in what which futures can go in and we can sustain them and we are also responsible for doing all the release management work, which is a lot of work and I'll go a little bit into that and also about setting the roadmap and we have I'm going to talk tomorrow at the maintainer's track around Was the flux roadmap for this year? And yes, you can train that talk if you want to find more about the roadmap the idea here is that the core team is basically responsible for the overarching of flux the flux distribution and everything that that's built into it This is how the team looked like last year we had nine people Six people were from we works and those six people were Full-time working on flux and this is what helped us drive Flux from I know zero dot zero to two point zero GA in around two years and a half This is how the team looks today We are eight people two people are full-time me Suley from control plane and sunny Another maintainer with help from CNCF. He's also helping us full-time all the other people here are They're independent they found jobs and other places and they are still contributing to flux and helping flux Yes, one thing that we've learned from the CNCF Chris Annis chick is that there is some Mentorship and funding available in the future for Individuals who wish to be contributing or maybe maintaining code. So if you think you might be one of those people, please let Stefan know As soon as you can yeah, so CNCF runs a program where a Core maintainer of our project says hey, we need help in this area You get a little payment for that get paid to you know start contributing to flux we Handhold we teach you how to do that how to start your first contributions and hopefully after that you can you know become a maintainer and become more involved in the project but the The message I'm trying to send here is that you know the the people on this team They are dedicated to flux they understand flux but for them to do their job. They need to you know Have some hours on their work. They assign to the flux project We can't run the flux project with Maintainers working on nights and weekends. So that's that's something really really important and that's one of the goals That we have moving forward one comment. I'll make about that actually if you're listening to this and you're thinking How do I get more time for working on flux at my work? Please ask for help because you know it is important that if your employer believes that you should work on flux But they think you should somehow magic magic that out of your spare time That's not a fair arrangement and it's really really helpful to be open about what is in it What kinds of commitments are involved and just so people understand that you know You maybe it's some time during the week during the working day and not nights and things like this. Yeah. Yeah, and the The flux project is also graduated. So we have a great responsibility every time we add the future We change something into flux we do a release It takes time to validate all these things We if you are doing during the nights and weekends, you'll probably you know not do it Great because you are either tired. You're out of time. You'll get burned out and stuff like that So in order to move the project forward in a healthy direction, we need healthy people working on the project We also have a dedicated community team these wonderful people make Flux community work. They are as important as the core team in my opinion and they They are key people into flux which help every one of you will help us with events Documentation and so on so yeah Core team is important community team is as important. Yeah, I would first of all I want to strongly agree with what's the funder said about the community But also I should mention if you're thinking how can I help flux this might be a good place to start Being in the community on slack in GitHub understanding what people are asking Anyone can do this if you wish to And we would very much welcome more participation. I think in in the wider group as well. Yeah, usually the how you start off as a Contributor to flux you are not going to jump straight in the code. Usually you start by you know installing flux Following the dogs. So you'll probably notice. Oh These dogs are not that great I can improve them based on my experience and that's how you can make your first contribution dogs are The easiest way to you know add value to the project while you are Becoming a user and once you come a user, maybe you have some ideas here I want to change something I want to fix a bug and then maybe you'll get into the code part But code code contributions are not the most important thing in a project. That's quite mature documentation user guides helping others on on slack on we also have github discussions and So many people are in there asking all these questions like I have this kind of setup. I Don't have an example in flux how I can use flux for my particular use case, right? So There are definitely other 20 at least 20 50 organizations with have that setup, right? It's important to go there and share your story Hey, this is how I've configured flux and that's in my opinion a meaningful contribution And you are part of the community only by you know interacting with others. So it's not about, you know pure code contributions Someone change their name Okay, let's see what maintainer maintenance effort means for the flux project and where we are today I've listed here some you know usual tasks that happens we we since we we did the G release we now have Three releases per year cadence we follow Kubernetes upstream so after a Kubernetes release we run all our end-to-end tests against the the new release we do that for the first beta ones and then we upgrade all the flux dependencies all the packages everything to the new version then we test it again we do all the Backporting we test with all the late the last three supported version of Kubernetes and this is all part of you know the what it means to ship a GA project and and make sure We don't break anything when we the release of the release is kind of a Big maintenance burden. It's a load it takes one two to three weeks to do a minor release and we we also have you know Sometimes we ship a issue a problem a bug or is there is a CV So we need to do patch releases and we need to do it fast Right so that takes around three days and it's always always need people from from the core maintenance team because they have Access to create a tag. They have access to you know merge a poor request and so on so it's a lot of load here also we have An RFC process in place. This is how you can get new features into flux in order to do that you have to have a Sponsor for your idea you need to convince someone which is a flux maintainer. Hey How do you feel about my idea that in terms of it's great? I'm going to you know a support you In front of the community and the RFC process starts and these are see processes Can be quite long you can go for two to three months We had cases where it took like six months because it was like a huge thing new influx like all the things that we've built with OCI So it's a it's a process where you know maintainers have to be involved and you have to Show a sustained involvement also by improving the RFC reaching out to the community ask others for support, right? So this is how the community can drive flux for through this RFC process and the core team is highly involved into that Especially end users if you're a big end user and you've always wanted it a feature This is the right way to talk about it Yeah, and of course community work we We figure out like the minimum we need at the the amount of you know questions Discussions everything that's happening. We Minimum in three people we would love to have way more people involved in the community helping us On this direction Now the problem is this is what we are today, right? Like we we need three weeks We need a couple of months to run RFC, but the more things we add to flux The maintenance load only will go up. There is no way around it, right? If you add a new future that future probably comes with some dependencies, right? Those dependencies evolved on their own So flux needs to evolve along with the dependencies needs to keep up with the dependencies There are all sorts of breaking changes in everything in CNCF ecosystem, right? You change a library there. It depends on Kubernetes You can't upgrade Kubernetes unless you upgrade that library and so on so What we want to do Going forward is If we add the future to flux We need to analyze it was the impact of that future from on the long term, right? and so we we we want to Make people that are proposing features that are coming to us. I see more conscious about How much maintainers that thing? Drives inside the project. Can we sustain it? Other things like CVs right it's it's raining with CVs everywhere. We've seen what's happening lately So that's also something that adds to the maintenance because the more dependencies you add The more risk you add to the project the more the project can become vulnerable overnight because there is some major CV That impacts flux in that component. So that's another thing that adds up to the maintenance load And there are many other things. I just put here some ideas also the fact that we have APIs which are GA we we do the same thing as Kubernetes where not everything in flux is GA But each API for example, how you define a GUID repository how do you find a helm release? How do you find an OCI repo all these things have their own versioning and some part of flux for example GUID repository and customized overlays are GA when you add Something you want to improve the GUID repository want to add a new feature to it or something, right? It it becomes Very hard thing to to allow right If we change if we add a new feature to a GA feature, how will that affect is it still GA? Should we say no, this is beta, right? So we can't do that we told people like hey, get a repository GA or not going to say, oh, we are this future so we can going back to beta so it's a It's a lot of effort when when you add new features when you improve something in the GA API is they need to be as Stable as mature as the API is today, right? So that's that's another aspect of that as to the maintenance load So the the question is if we keep adding new features to flux from all all Directions how we can protect flux from from future creep so we we thought about changing the RFC process and You know add a cost So the person that creates the RFC and say they are one this new future What is the maintenance cost for that and we have to figure it out? We need to you know put the price on it So then we can say, okay if this new feature adds this cost how we can balance it how we can make it sustainable in the future so that can be by involving the Persons the organizations that want that new feature in the process and involve them in the long-term maintenance of that future another thing that We could do to trim down the future keeping flux you say is that future really required in flux core or We can build a controller Or we can build a UI which doesn't have to be in the science here flux can be an extension of flux in the ecosystem if we can do that and if doesn't need to be in the Core of flux we should strive to you know enable That kind of contribution through the ecosystem We should enable our user base to build things around flux and not put everything under since if this is another General discussions for the for the whole since your projects which are graduated is the idea Zoom Okay Yeah, so I was saying We see this issue in all CNCF graduated projects once you have your project being graduated You have let's say a J release you get to a certain stability and you have a promise to your users Is it okay for you to you know create the sub project which maybe it's alpha and put it there and Make it graduated all the sudden I think is not the right choice to it. I think we should have some other process maybe Graduation for these sub projects to make it into the CNCF project once they are mature So that's that's what we are trying to do by enabling Our community to you know add things to flux as add-ons We have a dedicated github organization called fluxity community is not under CNCF This is managed by the core maintainers of flux and we the only let's say requirement for that is When you want to add an extension of flux there It has to match the license of flux and that's very important because if you put an add-on there The end goal is at some point it will become stable and maybe it will be part of the CNCF flux So we we really need the same license so we can streamline that process And this is how we we envision that will create an extension to our governance to have this graduate Process how you get the thing your add-on from the community organization into upstream and You know make it graduate it Okay, how can we sustain the maintenance effort? Of course, we need to recruit more maintainers from from the contributors for every project has that main goal Right is the number one a thing that you as a maintainer have to think about how can I you know extend my group make Make other people welcome here. So, you know, it's a community effort and it's not only on five people eight people whatever What we have served with with flux is the fact that we have this Maintainer label right you if you contribute to flux source controller a future Then and we merge that at some point a core maintainer or a current maintainer of the Source controller will ask that person. Hey, do you want to help us and became a maintainer yourself and that person asked what it entails like everything Everything that in source controller or the git protocols OCI operations helm operations Cosign verification everything that's in there, right? And maybe that person say but I contributed this little thing I can't just take over everything all of the sudden, right? And I understand it's a it's a big responsibility to you you value the future and then we ask you Hey, now you you are responsible for everything that's there that was written from three years ago today, right? It's a big responsibility. So we We want to change this process and enable people to take ownership Without putting the burden of a whole thing on their back. We don't we want to Go into a process where if you add the future To a flux controller to a flux component whatever we want you to be able to maintain just that at the beginning right and maybe later on you'll get more comfortable with the Codebase and you at some point you'll say hey, I really want to become a maintainer of the whole thing, right? So yeah, there's a really important consequence of this which is that as we see flux being used by more and more Organizations whether it's end users or vendors or others Inside their own solutions, whether it's consulting services or a product or a platform Then usually the piece that you're working on for that. Let's take GitLab as an example So GitLab have been using flux and they've integrated into their GitLab platform So they're doing continuous delivery with GitLab as a platform. It's great So that means that they're touching certain pieces of flux What Stefan is describing is a way to make it easier for those pieces to be looked after by somebody like GitLab Individually so if you're listening and you're thinking I'm working in an organization. That's using flux. This is how I'm gonna touch it This is a way forward for you yeah with with GitLab is is quite a great example because We have the flux bootstrap command which allows you to you know set up flux or with different Git providers and cloud providers and we have for for some good providers like github github We have dedicated commands, right? So the scope the logic of that bootstrap is scope to GitLab And it imports the GitLab SDK and does things for GitLab the github one does things with github, right? So ideally We would want to invite GitLab and say hey, can you take maintainership of your sub command? Because you know best if you change something in your API how you can you know prevent flux from Breaking when you change it. We also have another good example here is workload identity. We try to get flux moving forward form, you know Long-term keys as a sage keys that you need to rotate on your own and we want flux to be able to connect to all the external systems in a Key less manner and how that works with OEDC It's already in Kubernetes upstream could let knows how to work with workload identity, right? So ideally we would like to invite Asia for example the flux project and say Asia. Can you take over the maintenance of? workload the workload identity component in flux when in the YAML spec its provider Asia You know and you if you change your workload identity implementation You can also do it in flux and we can maintain it together Of course, there is a lot of common code is the core flux is the github toolkit where if you change something there can break everything So that's we don't want to put that burden on top of everybody That's where the core maintainers are there to figure out. Hey if I'm doing this change I'm going to affect all providers, but there are so many examples in flux where we can actually Give those people full maintenance full ownership of their future because that future is quite great Good defined into flux and it's it's you know encapsulated for them now in order for someone to some organization to say To an individual who contributed something to flux. Yes we want this person to To maintain flux for it. I'm going back here where I started that individual should be allowed to work on that future in the work hours, right? Because if you just add flux as An extra thing that your employee has to do He'll probably not do it or he'll burn out and so on right So my message is if you if you really want to help the project. This is the best way of how we can do it Give you know your employees the person that which are you know Contributors to flux give them confidence to become maintainers and how you can do that you should allow them to work in the work hours and provide recognition So that if somebody's doing good work then other colleagues in their organization. No, this is a good thing for the organization It's not like a secret thing that we don't talk about Yes, yes, of course and we Every time we have a new Maintainer in the project we we try to say a nice thing We we add you to the you know every time we publish a blog post on on on our website So we want to celebrate every individual that comes in our organization helps flux moving forward But they should be also, you know Encouraged from their own. Yeah, and I mean when when we announced we've worked this shutting down I received I don't know over a hundred emails and contacts from people saying can we hire flux maintainers and Indeed fantastically some of those flux maintainers now have new jobs in new organizations like Stefan is working at control plane And others have gone to other places, but for me. I think that's The wrong question the right question is how do people become a maintainer and join the maintainer community? And this is this is how we that's what we really hope this these changes will support and we'll have some more of that in a minute Okay, so how we the project can incentivize organizations to invest in flux right then That's why we are here. I don't have I definitely don't have that answer. I only have one answer and Yeah, I'm going to put my control plane hat right So how we figured this out at control plane we We said what control plane is a security company, right? It's not the continuous delivery company So how can control plane help sustain the project is by you know using their knowledge, which is security? CV fixes Code audits and so on and how we can Use what what they are doing now their main focus and build something for flux so they can invest in our Core maintainers so the solution for us is we've built this Flux distribution zero CVs. We can ship it very fast. It doesn't take three weeks to fix a CV We build we have a team that analyzes all the CVs and we can streamline that we also build the fifth fifth compliant distribution and we Also offer sport and this is something that control plane does for the core of flux for the The flux in CF project. We can't do it for everything else We don't want to be the next single vendor of flux. This is not what we want to do We want to you know enable some people and Have a sustainable way for us to you know Have those people on the team and offer something that Enterprises may or may not want to do this is one solution I'm hoping we can find many other solutions in the ecosystem going forward. Okay, so one way you can help flux as you can buy support from control plane Or if you're another vendor But you want to do something that isn't what control plane are doing Maybe you can use their products and services and then resell them or create larger solutions Or maybe you've identified another piece of the puzzle Stefan mentioned security a few times There are other pieces but what policy is an interesting area for instance. Oh, yeah Observability is an interesting area dashboards management fleet management And there are lots of pieces of code that we're going to show you that you can work on in these areas. Please continue okay, so fluxes How can I please Is invisible infrastructure in your? Clusters that enables you to build a platform to build continuous delivery to build You know Internal platforms platform engineering all of that is not the platform so Flux like Kubernetes not made to Be all things. It's a it's a thing that it's like a Layer and on top of that layer you can build your own Delivery infrastructure flux is very you know unopinated you can Spin it up in many many ways you can it's like Lego pieces like 13 CRDs You can mix them together and create your own platform, right? So I think here is a lot of opportunity for the ecosystem to create something on top of flux You know and By creating that giving back to the project contributors and maintainers and also Have these organizations this individual being able to sustain their effort through I don't know commercial offering Sass versions there are so many solutions out there But the idea is flux is not an end product Okay, so if flux is the foundation we need a driving ecosystem To sustain flux from outside and going to leave Alex is now and he'll tell us about the ecosystem Idea, thank you. It's the fun So I just want to express my appreciation for Stefan support in the last few months It's been really amazing to see him continuing to display the focus and effort that he's famous for In this in this world. It's really exciting So I don't have to wear a hat anymore, which is quite nice So I can be hatless for a while Okay, that lets me say things that I wouldn't say if I was wearing a hat But one of them is that we had about 15 Different vendors put up their hands and say we want to provide some form of commercial services and support We're not sometimes. We're not quite sure yet. Well, that is we recognize We'd like to become or hire maybe Maintainers to get there or it's going to be embedded in our platform We want to be visible about it. This is very important because visibility is the hardest thing in the ecosystem That's how we have these conferences So one of the things we are hoping from today is that people will discover each other you or find out someone else Wants to work on the same thing that you're excited about across the room and it's up to you How that happens? It's not a directed process in that sense We did a press release yesterday. It's on the CNCF site. I know is it also on the flux blog site? Yes, great Lots of quotes from people I met it's a fun mention as you're a few times Git lab have provided very strong support and others as well including control plane and Some big end users like orange of the silver team. I see a sitting over there. Thank you very much for your support So we move from a single vendor world of weave works to a community all of the weave works code is open source So if anybody thought oh, I want to do, you know get offsets But it's closed source. That's completely open source now. There are people like for example I think I don't know if I can see David from Suze who used to work on that at weave But there are folks who want to continue that kind of code and policy engines do We'll give you some examples This is what is the ecosystem at we also this will be slightly more interactive because I have questions How do you find other people who want to work with you? Where do you go? You can't come to a conference every day It's really important to make yourself known and to say hey, I'm excited about this Don't be shy. This is why we have slack channels and other places also if you have shared ideas They can turn into activity and you know, I'm really want to see and this is where the community team is so important Kingdom and Tamo and and the others is this is to encourage interaction Around this and finally the ecosystem also consists of work That's the fun said make sure it's the lights are on not the pajamas. This is really important We talk a lot about burnout burnout starts with wearing pajamas while you code. I think and Get involved to get the blessing and the recognition So here's one example that's that's gone through a transition to show you what's what's going on This was started by Chanwit a wonderful person who was a colleague of ours at WeaveWorks and Chanwit said How do I get to get ops with Terraform? Well, isn't his infrastructure is code the same as flux? How does it work and he wrote a flux controller? I think is the right expression. Yep, which allows you to coordinate the orchestration done by Terraform and the orchestration done by Kubernetes and flux in a manner that can lead to consistent outcomes At least that's the promise and it's fully integrated into Flux way of doing things issues events. You can alert use the source controller. It's a pure extension of flux It's not something that runs, you know separately so you can Look at Terraform in the same way you can look at the core API's of flux And that's that's what we are trying to do is rebuilding flux on the GitOps toolkit idea You have a toolkit you can build your own controller And it behaves like flux and then can you know take advantage of all the other features we have in the in the flux distribution This is amazing because it means you can now Effectively in a single transaction. It's not really a transaction But in a single piece of work you can ask for data services that live outside of Kubernetes to be deployed with apps That are being managed by Flux inside of Kubernetes Other people wrote Michael wrote a Pulumi integration. I think yep AWS wrote the cloud formation cloud formation Somebody did some cross play cross planes quite easy so there isn't really a standalone project But people have done cross plane with flux and so putting all this together. This is now a community project It's not you'll see that we've worked as dimension in the URL called flux IAC flux infrastructure as code and wearing No hats. I can say tofu is also supported here Yeah This is a project that has already you know more than a thousand stars Which I'm told is a reasonable number of a starting out project What's interesting though is when we released it from the we've worked world into the wild again About two weeks ago. We had a kickoff meeting There was one maintainer on the project at that moment now. They're a fool Okay, and the project was renamed to tofu controller. Yes And this is our seat all the This is a good example of the community deciding what it wants to do for this particular element And no one's going to get in your way here Just do what you want do it together though And you'll notice at the bottom that in this particular project It's on an Apache license Which means it lives in that world of things that could if they wanted to Apply through the RFC process to be inside flux, but maybe not maybe that's not the right thing for the project It doesn't matter, but we do want it to be discoverable So that means that that we need help with things like making sure on the website You can find out about these things they are listed there, but there's always work to do So this is the structure of the ecosystem that we end up with In the middle the core where it's in it's inside the CNCF on an Apache license And it's that deployment orchestration tool very Carefully managed piece of software for the long term Very high discipline around CVE's etc And then we have a middle group of projects that are if you like core ready, but not in core They could be in the future if they wish to be They may not necessarily be ready. They may be considered not fully production ready in all use cases, but they're important And they're people in the close flux community are very aware of these projects Maybe because of an RFC or something else And then there's the outer group. This is a really important group because this is if you're not a core maintainer This might be where your idea starts Universe of community add-ons experiments Play things things that you threw at them all yesterday It doesn't matter if they don't work yet. These are all it's all legit out here in the universe They could be a paid extra thing. It could be your support offering It could be your platform that includes flux. All of these things need to be advertised and known to everybody here And that's something that we want to see happening The flux versus I call it Okay Goals of the ecosystem is all about growing the success of the project and as Stefan said that is not the same as creating New feature creep. It's about creating a broader community of users Products platforms tools add-ons extensions and this we will be working to make these more discoverable and Hopefully today you'll discover some other people who care about some maybe these things on here So you may not know there is a flux backstage plug-in. Yep. If you like backstage a Wonderful person that we've wrote. It's called Kevin McDermott wrote a flux backstage plug-in Which lets you from backstage do flux things This is this is in the community We've get upset which is a little bit like application sets in our go is completely open source if someone wants to use that It's there and then gooey is a really interesting area because Gimlet have done capacitor. There's a we've get ops gooey There's also some other things that people have written to be really interesting if there could be a community forming I I don't know where it would go. It might decide to do something else But a community could form around the gooey thing and one of the things that I was hoping today Would be that people who care about the gooey would find each other and some principles, which I think are really important It has to feel like it's fair in lots of different ways That means that some people will be vendors some people will be not be vendors We just need to not lie about what we're doing It's okay to sell things because without having a business we can't sustain the product and the project is really difficult And that in turn means it has to have certain notions of equity and accessibility So nobody should feel excluded and there should be easy ways in I want to make sure today that I understand That everybody's confident about what those ways in look like they're not there's no mystery about when meetings are or if there is Or if there are if there are things that are not happening like there should be a jobs board Or there should be a place to ask these kinds of questions. We can fill in those gaps And that we hope will add up to positive change and ultimately sustainability Which is a big topic for open source in general and for all foundation projects So here are some of the things that I would really want to make sure that everybody is confident about Does everybody know when the development when the dev calls are Does anybody feel they would like to be on any of these calls and there's not and not aware of it That you know, it's it's because the information is hidden away Somebody over there good Yeah, we want to make sure that everybody knows we also Tamo has recommended we start an ecosystem call as well Because we don't want the dev call to be sort of cluttering up too much I'm happy to be the initial chair of that call But if someone else wants to help me I'll be really really grateful And That's what people can talk about their project idea find each other and then there are the slack channels Please make sure you're in those That's where if you want to pick up a piece of the Extensions or work on a GUI or have questions about how does this work? Or if you're a vendor and you've put up your hand and say I want to be in the support ecosystem Please come into the slack channel and be a person who gets known as somebody is a good person to answer questions That's really really important And then of course the projects and last but not least Documentation and the website Please remember if you're thinking about becoming a contributor. This is a great place to start. I Try to go to the website and I couldn't find X but here's how to fix it I propose this change or I read this doc and it feels a little out-of-date to me Could this be a better way of introducing this you would not believe how popular this shit is with Because they would have to do it themselves otherwise And there's nothing worse than working away and you know at the back of your mind That what you're working on is getting further and further and further and further away from the docs or website which need to be updated So all of these things if you are and if you don't know what to do Please just contact directly and ask questions on slack. This is so important. Don't be shy I mentioned this a couple of times because it's very close to my heart fairness for vendors and We want vendors to Do things that help users and help the community very very much. We don't want all those things to be the same things Sometimes they will be the same things. That's also okay But we really want them to be clear about what they're doing and in return. We also want them to be Have the right to advertise what they're doing. Otherwise, what's the point quite frankly? And then they want them to have the opportunity to meet other people interested in what they're doing because they might have Jobs for them or they might have other opportunities So this is an area where I think there's to be an active focus for the next few months It's how to improve that because otherwise it becomes very difficult to put in the effort over the time term And so I think this is my last line. Yeah, there's a couple a couple more What do people actually want to work on that something that is in really in the form of a question and today It's the fun was kind enough to refer to the word plan in in relation to this I don't think it's fair to call this a plan. It's a proposal for how People could go forward if they want to work on things. So I would ask first for example Are people interested in the infrastructure as code areas? Is this something you think is useful for get ops? Do people do have people having users or customers? Who like to do things with tofu or terraform or Pulumi or crossplane with flux Is this a useful thing? Hands are going up. Does anyone want to? Say anything about it or is anyone interested in becoming a more involved as well I believe some of the IAC folks may have dialed in they couldn't come to the conference Because it's they're all around the world Okay So using but not necessarily contributing is the is the frame for the moment. This is this is the challenge So we want to have a focus on What the success is around IAC? So that you can see it and we'll have probably try and encourage the CNC after promote more examples Because once you see the results, then you can have recognition and recognition creates motivation and things like that What about the flux gooey? Does anybody not want that to be a flux gooey? Only CLA So there's a lot of ideas about a flux gooey Stefan and I have been talking about a cool project called headlamp, which is an interesting project in the CNCF This is a general purpose Kubernetes dashboard that could be adapted But headlamp has an opinion that's a little bit Kubernetes centric So maybe there are other things you could do that are just more styling from the point of view of the flux user There's also some pieces of we've get ops that you could repurpose. It's all Apache licensed You can do what you like with it So if you're thinking now is my chance to I know that some of the Supporting firms have said to me on private emails We want to we think gooey is a great opportunity to help but it is it's an opportunity to do things and Then there's get upsets and there's also we've policy engine There are various integrations with Kubernetes cappy Anything else that you think is is relevant could be there and if you have any doubts contact me also I see Kingdom is here Kingdom is insanely cool and has volunteered to help To put some of the what we used to be the we've works documents in a safe online place on github Which means that people can go and find out what some of this effing code actually does and what it's for So thank you so much. This is just a great example of how Information documentation comes before contribution. So thank you Kingdom. So if you want to help with that, that would be amazing as well He's also fun at parties And so here are some other things that tamo suggested that that we do which was sort of working through like maybe a dedicated slack channel Having a sort of kickoff call. I'm still trying to figure out what the right things are But if you have any opinions on this or requests Shout now or contact us later. Whatever you like either of us or or kingdom or tamo or the other folks Doesn't matter. We'll all work together to identify the right things to do. Thank you very much Thank you So I don't know we allocate. We got a generous allocation of an hour and a half For this slot that we've now used about 45 minutes, which is I think for most humans is plenty of time So if you would like to stick around and talk and chat and meet each other or ask questions Please do but I would also say that if you're thinking about lunch or the next talk and you feel the urge to disappear That's also okay. You won't be considered to be missing anything particular. So What would anyone like to talk about in the room if you want to stick around in the remaining time anyone Does anyone have also things that you're frightened of Desires elephants in the room. Oh, yeah Yes, that is something that I think could work Would that be good? Is that a good use of time? I would be totally cool with that because I can be a lot less than sit up here It's quite hot up here, but Um, anyone else got another suggestion. Does anyone else want to raise any elephants in the room type points before we Do what we are suggested? Yeah so the customized controller is powered by a library, which is called flux server side apply we we've built that sometime ago it's a Abstraction on top of how you reconcile any kind of Kubernetes objects and they need to be Kubernetes objects in in a as a ghost truck. So it doesn't really matter How you get to those Final objects customized control is one form That uses the supplier this customer player, which is a shared library and you can build your own controllers That has garbage collection does all the things that customized controller does but in a different way, for example, I'm I'm working in my in my spare time at the thing called team money Which is like hell, but based on Q and I plan to you know Create a controller in the future that uses the same library as customized controller without Forcing people into using customized if they don't want to it's a It needs some community effort Building a controller from scratch is not that easy even if we have improved the whole process We we have a runtime abstraction up on top of controller runtime. We have these libraries for authentication server side apply workload identity, but Yeah, it's a It's not something you can do in a weekend And we can work together as a group on how we can you know Formalize more maybe have some Q builder extensions stuff like that So people can get started faster building their own custom controllers that work with all the the flux Other things and make it part of the ecosystem Easier tofu controller is a great example Around other things then applying state to the cluster because apply state outside the cluster and it uses all the other Packages and share components in the Github still get Okay, right, so let's do that Organizing thing. I think we have a natural gooey corner here so gooey corner Some people put up their hand about IAC. I think this gentleman was one of them So maybe you can be the beginning as IAC table Okay, tentative. It's still the tentative IAC table Would anyone else like to have a little huddle or a group around a separate doc. Can we put anyone on website? Docs Near Kingdom Kingdom. Can you make yourself visible? So we've got Puyah gooey IAC in there on the right Docs and website with Kingdom who's got a ponytail and it's wearing a little shoulder bag