 Hello everyone, welcome back to the SuperCloud presentation here, I'm theCUBE, I'm John Furrier host. Got a great segment here, we're going to unpack the networking aspect of the cloud, how that translates into what SuperCloud architecture and platform deployment scenarios look like and demystify, multi-cloud, hybrid cloud. We've got two great experts, Amir Khan, the co-founder and CEO of Elkira, Natif Khan, co-founder and CTO of Elkira. This guy's been around since 2018 with the startup, before that, storied history in the tech industry, I mean, routing early days, multiple waves, multiple cycles, welcome to SuperCloud, thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for having us. So let's get your take on SuperCloud because it's been one of those conversations that's really galvanized the industry because it kind of highlights almost this next wave, this next side of the street that everyone's going to be on that's going to be successful. The laggards and the legacy seem to be stuck on the old model, SaaS is growing up, it's ISVs, it's ecosystems, hyperscale, full hybrid, and then multi-cloud around the corner has caused all this confusion, everyone's hand waving, this is a solution, that's a solution. Where are we, what do you guys see as this SuperCloud dynamic? So where we start from is always focusing on the customer problem. And in 2018, when we identified the problem, we saw that there were multiple clouds with many diverse ways of doing things from the network perspective and customers were struggling with that. So we delved deeper into that and looked at each one of the cloud architectures completely independent and there was no common solution and customers were struggling with that from the perspective they wanted to be in multiple clouds either through merging and acquisitions or running an application which may be more cost effective to run in something or maybe optimized for certain reasons to run in a different cloud. But from the network perspective, everything needed to come together. So that's, we are starting to define it as a SuperCloud now, but basically it's a common infrastructure across all clouds and then integration of higher layer services like security or IPAM services or many other types of services like inter-partner routing and stuff like that. So Amir, you agree then that multi-cloud is simply a default result of having whatever outcomes, either M&A, some productivity software, maybe Azure, Amazon has this and then I'm at on-premise application. So it's kind of mishmash. So I would qualify it with hybrid multi-cloud because everything is going to be interconnected whether it's on-premise or multi-users or clouds. But if CTO perspective, obviously, you get developers, multiple stacks, got AWS, Azure, GCP, other, not everyone wants to kind of like go all in but yet they don't want to hedge too much because that's a resource issue and I got to learn this stack, I got to learn that stack. So then now you have this default multi-cloud, hybrid multi-cloud, then it's like, okay, what do I do? How do you spread that around? Is it dangerous? What's the approach technically? What's some of the challenges there? Yeah, certainly, John. First, thanks for having us here. So before I get to that, I'll just add a little bit to what Namir was saying, like how we started, what we were seeing and how it correlates with the SuperCloud. So as you know, before this company, Elkera, we were doing, we did the SDVAN company, which was Viptella. So there, we started seeing, when people started deploying SDVAN at like a larger scale, we started like customers coming to us and saying, they needed connectivity into the cloud from the SDVAN. They wanted to extend the SDVAN fabric to the cloud. So we came up with an architecture, which was like later we started calling them cloud on ramps where we built a transit BPC and put like the virtual instances of SDVAN appliances extended from there to the cloud. But before we knew it, it started becoming very complicated for the customers because it wasn't just connectivity. It also required other use cases. You had to instantiate or bring in security appliances in there, you had to secure all of that stuff. There were requirements for different regions. So you had to bring up the same thing in different regions. Then multiple clouds, what did you do? You had to replicate the same thing in multiple clouds. And now if there was requirement between clouds, how are you going to do it? You had to route traffic from somewhere and come up with all those routing controls and stuff. So it was very complicated. Like spaghetti code, but on networking. In fact, one of our customers called it spaghetti mess. And so that's where we thought about where was the industry going and which direction the industry was going into. And we came up with Elkira where what we are doing is building a common infrastructure across multiple clouds, across on-prem locations, be it data centers or physical sites, branches, sites, et cetera, with integrated security and networking services inside. And nowadays, networking is not only about connectivity. You have to secure everything. So security has to be built in. Redundancy, high availability, disaster recovery. So all of that needs to be built in. So that's kind of a definition of what we thought at that time, what is turning into some cloud. Yeah, it's interesting too. You mentioned those VPCs and configuration of loans, a hassle. Never mind the manual mistakes could be made. But as you decide to do something, oh, we got to get these other things. A lot of the hyperscales and a lot of the alpha cloud players now, the cloud native folks, they're kind of in that mode of, wow, look what we built. Now they're going to maintain it. How do I refresh it? Like how do I keep the talent? So they got this similar chaotic environment where it's like, okay, now they're already already through, so I think they're going to be okay. But then some people want to bypass it completely. So there's a lot of customers that we see out there that fit the makeup of. I'm cloud first, I've lifted and shifted. I moved some stuff to the cloud. But I want to bypass all that learnings from all the people that have gone through the past three years. Can I just skip that? And go to a multi-cloud or a coherent infrastructure. What do you think about that? What's your view? So yeah, so if you look at these enterprises, you know, many of them just to find like the talent which for one cloud, as far as the IT staff is concerned, it's hard enough. And now when you have multiple clouds, it's hard to find people the talent which has expertise across different clouds. So that's where we come into the picture. So our vision was always to simplify all of this stuff. And simplification, it cannot be just simplification because you cannot just automate the workflows that the cloud provides underneath. So you have to provide your full data plane on top, full control plane, management plane, policy and management on top of it. And coming back to like your question. So these nowadays, those people who are working on networking, you know, before it used to be like CLI, you used to learn about Cisco CLI or Juniper CLI and you used to work on it. Nowadays, it's very different. So automation, programmability, all of that stuff is the key. So now, you know, the ops guys, the DevOps guys, so these are the people who are in high demand. So what do you think about the folks out there that are saying, okay, get a lot of fragmentation. I got the stacks, there are a lot of stovepipes, if you will, out there. I got to learn this from Azure. Can you guys with your product abstract the way that so developers don't need to know the ins and outs of the stacks, almost like a gateway, if you will, the old days. But like, I'm a developer or a team developer, why should I have to learn the management layer of Azure? That's exactly what we started out with to solve. So what we built is a platform and the platform sits inside the cloud and customers are able to build their own network or virtual network on top using that platform. So the platform has its own data plan, own control plan and management plan with a policy layer on top of it. So now it's the platform which is sitting in different clouds, but from a customer's point of view, it's one way of doing networking. One way of instantiating or bringing in services or security services in the middle, whether those are our security services or whether those are services from our partners like Palo Alto or Checkpoint or Cisco. So you guys brought the SD-WAN mojo and refactored it for the cloud, sounds like. No. No? No. It's more than that. You cannot do that. All right, explain. It's way more than that. I mean, SD-WAN was WAN. I mean, you talk about wide area networks are connected. So explain it to us. SD-WAN was primarily done for one major reason. MPLS was expensive, very strong SLAs, but very low speed. Internet on the other hand, you sat at home and you could access your applications much faster. No SLA, very low cost, right? So we wanted to marry the two together so you could have a purely private infrastructure and a public infrastructure and secure both of them by creating a common secure fabric across all those environments and then seamlessly tying it into your internal branch and data center and cloud network. So it merely brought you to the edge of the cloud. It didn't do anything inside the cloud. Now, the major problem resides inside the clouds where you have to optimize the clouds themselves. Take a step back. How were the clouds built? Basically, the cloud providers went to the Cisco's and Juniper's and Ristas of the world, built the network in the data centers or across wide area infrastructure and brought it all together and tried to create a virtualized layer on top of that. But there were many limitations of this underlying infrastructure that they had built. So number of routes per region, how inter-region connectivity worked or how many routes you could carry to the VPC, the VNATs that all those were becoming no common policy across these environments. No segmentation across these environments, right? So the networking constructs that the enterprise customers were used to as enterprise class, carry class capabilities, they did not exist in the cloud. So what did the customer do? They ended up stitching it together all manually. And that's why Atif was alluding to earlier that it became a spaghetti mess for the customers. And then what happens is as a result, day two operations, troubleshooting, everything becomes a nightmare. So what do you do? You have to build an infrastructure inside the cloud. Cloud has enough raw capabilities to build the solutions inside there. Netflix is the world and many different companies have been born in the cloud and evolved from there. So why could we not take the raw capabilities of the clouds and build a network cloud or a super cloud on top of these clouds to optimize the whole infrastructure and seamlessly connecting it into the on-premise and remote user locations, right? So that's your, you know, hybrid multi-cloud solution. Well, great call out on the SD-WAN comment versus clouds. I think this is important because you're building a network layer in the cloud that spans out. So the customers don't have to get into the, there's a gap in the system that I'm used to my operating environment of having lockdown security and network. Yeah. So what you do is you use the raw capabilities like bandwidth or virtual machines or containers or different types of serverless capabilities and you bring it all together in a way to solve the networking problems thereby creating a super cloud, which is an abstraction layer which hides all the complexity of the underlying clouds from the customer, right? And it provides a common infrastructure across all environments to that customer, right? That's the beauty of it. And it does it in a way that it looks like if they have the networking knowledge they can apply it to this new environment and carry it forward. One way of doing security across all clouds and hybrid environments. One way of doing routing. One way of doing large-scale network address translation. One way of doing IPAM services. So people are tired of doing individual things in individual clouds and on-premise locations, right? So now they're getting something common. You guys brought all that to bear and flexible for the customer to essentially self-serve their network cloud. And nowadays from the business perspective, agility is the key, right? You have to move at the pace of the business. If you don't, you're losing. So would it be safe to say that you guys have a network super cloud? We absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. What does that mean for a customer? What's in it for them? What's the benefit to the customer? I got a network super cloud. It connects, provides SLA, all the capabilities I need. What do they get? What's the end point for them? What's the end point? So maybe you can talk some examples. IT infrastructure is all distributed now, right? So you have applications running in data centers. You have applications running in one cloud, other cloud, public clouds. Enterprise are depending on so many SaaS applications. So now these are, you can call these end points. So a super cloud or a network cloud from our perspective, it's a cloud in the middle or a network in the middle which provides connectivity from any end point to any end point. So you're able to connect to this super cloud or a network cloud in one way no matter where you are. So now whichever cloud you're in, whichever clouds you need to connect to, and also it's not just connecting to the cloud. So you need to do a lot of stuff, a lot of networking inside the cloud also. So now, as Amir was saying, every cloud has its own from a networking, you know, the concepts perspective or the constructs, they're different. There are limitations in there also. So this super cloud which is sitting on top, basically your platform is sitting into the cloud but the super cloud is built on top of using your platform. So that abstracts all those complexities, all those limitations. So now your limitations are whatever the limitations of that platform are. So now your platform, that platform is in our control. So we can keep building it, we can keep scaling it horizontally because one of the things is that, you know, in this cloud era, one of the things is auto-scaling these services. So why can't the network now auto-scale also just like your other services? Yeah, network auto-scaling is a genius idea and I think that's killer. I want to ask the follow on question because I think, first of all, I love what you guys are doing. So I think it's a great example of this new innovation. Not obviously you see it, right? Geographical is huge. So, you know, single instance, global instances, multiple instances, you're seeing global. How do you guys look at that global equation because as companies expand their clouds into geos and then ultimately, you know, it's obviously a continent, region and locales, you're going to have geographic issues. So it's an extension of your network cloud? It is the extension of the network cloud because if you look at this hyperscalers, they're sitting pretty much everywhere in the globe. So wherever their regions are, the beauty of building a super cloud is that you can by definition be available in those regions. It literally takes a day or two of testing for our stack to run in those regions, to make sure there are no nuances that we run into, you know, for that region. The moment we bring it up in that region, all customers can onboard into that solution. So literally what used to take months or years to build a global infrastructure, now you can configure it in 10 minutes basically and bring it up in less than one hour. Since when did we see any solution that can come up with that? When the edge comes out to you, you start to see more clouds get both of them on. Exactly, and you can expand to the edge of the network. That's why we call cloud the new edge. Yeah, it is. Now I think you guys got a good list of network clouds, super clouds, good. Question on the premise side. So I get the cloud play. It's very cool. You can expand out, it's a nice layer. I'm sure you manage the SLAs between latency and all kinds of things, knowing when not to do things, physics or physics. Okay, now you got the on premise. What's the on premise equation look like? So on premise, the kind of customers we are working with large enterprises, mid-sized enterprises. So they have on-prem networks. They have deployed, in many cases, they have deployed STVAN, in many cases they have MPLS. They have data centers also, and a lot of these companies are moving applications from their data center into the cloud, but we still have large enterprise. But for you guys, you can sit there too with a non-server or is it a boxer? It's a software stack, right? So we are a software company. So you can run. No box. No box. No box. So we can connect any, as I mentioned, any endpoint, whether it's data center. So what happens is usually these enterprises from the data center. It's a cloud endpoint for you. Cloud endpoint for us, and they need high-speed connectivity into the cloud. And our network cloud is sitting inside the, our super cloud is sitting inside the cloud. So we need high-speed connectivity from the data centers. This is like multi-gig type of connectivity. So we enable that connectivity as a service. And as Amir was saying, you're able to bring it up in minutes, pretty much. Well, you guys have a great handle on super cloud. I really appreciate you guys coming on. I have to ask you guys, since you have so much experience in the industry, multiple inflection points you guys live through, and we're all old and we can remember those glory days. What's the big deal going on right now? Because you can connect to DOS, you can imagine, okay, like a Lambda function, spinning up some connectivity. I need instant access to a new route. Prostom, I need to send compute to an edge point for process data. A lot of these kind of ad hoc services are going to start flying around, which used to be manually configured, as you guys remember. And that's been the problem, right? The shadow IT, that was the biggest problem in the enterprise environment. That's what we are trying to get the customers away from. Cloud teams came in, individuals or small groups of people spun up instances in the cloud. It was completely disconnected from the on-premise environment or the existing IT environment that the customer had. So how do you bring it together? That's what we are trying to solve for, right? At a large scale, in a carrier class. What do you call that, shift right or shift left? Shift left is in the cloud native world security. Networking and security, the two hottest areas. What are you shifting up or down? I mean, the network's moving up the stack. I mean, you're seeing the run times at Kubernetes late. It's true end-to-end virtualization. So you have plumbing, which is the physical infrastructure. Then on top of that, now for the first time, you have true end-to-end virtualization, which the cloud-like constructs are providing to us. We tried to virtualize the routers. We tried to virtualize instances at the server level. Now we are bringing it all together in a truly end-to-end virtualized manner to connect any endpoint, anywhere across the globe, whether it's on-premise, home, multiple clouds or SaaS type environments. Yeah, to talk about the technical benefits beyond virtualization, because you're starting to see in virtualization be abstracted away. So you got end-to-end virtualization, but you don't need to know virtualization to take advantage of it. What are some of the tech involved where what's the trend around on top of virtualization? What's the easy button for that? So there are many, many use cases from the customers, and some of those use cases, they used to deliver out of their data centers before. So now because it takes a long time to spend something up in the data center and stuff. So the trend is, and what more enterprises are looking for is agility. And to achieve that agility, they're moving those services or those use cases into the cloud. So another technical benefit of like something like a super cloud, what we are doing is we allow customers to move their services from existing data centers into the cloud as well. And I'll give you some examples. These enterprises have tons of partners. They provide connectivity to their partners to select resources. It used to happen inside the data center. You would bring in connectivity to the data center and apply like tons of ACLs and whatnot to make sure that you're able to only connect. And now those use cases are, they need to be enabled inside the cloud. And the customers, customers are also, it's not just coming from the on-prem, they're coming from the cloud as well. So if they're coming from the cloud as well as from on-prem, so you need like an infrastructure like super cloud which is sitting inside the cloud and is able to handle all these use cases. So all of these use cases have to be, so that requires like moving those services from the data center into the cloud or into the super cloud. So there, as we started building this service over the last four years, we have come across so many use cases. And to deliver those use cases, you have to have a platform. So you have to have your own platform. Because otherwise you're depending on somebody else's capabilities and every time their capabilities change, you have to change. I'm glad you brought up the platform and I want to get your both reaction to this. So Bob Muglia just said on theCUBE here at super cloud, that super cloud is a platform that provides programmatically consistent services hosted on heterogeneous cloud providers. So the question is, is super cloud a platform or an architecture in your view? That's an interesting view on things. I mean, if you think of it, you have to design or architect a solution before we turn it into a platform. That's a trick question actually. So we look at it as that you have to have an architectural approach end to end. And then you build a solution based on that approach. So I don't think that they are mutually exclusive. I think they go hand in hand. It's an architecture that you turn into a solution and provide that agility and high availability and disaster recovery capability. It's interesting that these definitions might be actually redefined with this new configuration. Because architecture and platform used to mean something. Here's a platform, you buy this platform. And then you architect your solution. You buy a vendor. Right, right. And then they have to deal with that architecture. And in the place of super clouds, if you have too many stove pipes, then what's the purpose of the super cloud? Right, right, right. And because historically you built a router and you sold it to the customer. And the poor customer was supposed to install it all and interconnect all those things. And if you have 40, 50,000 router network which we saw in our lifetime, because there used to be many more branches when we were growing up in the networking industry, you had to create hierarchy and all kinds of things to figure out how to solve that problem. We are no longer living in that world anymore. You cannot deploy individual virtual instances and that's what approach a lot of people are taking, which is a pure overlay network. You cannot take that approach anymore. You have to evolve the architecture and then build the solution based on that architecture. So that becomes a platform which is readily available, highly scalable and available. And at the same time, it's very, very easy to deploy. It's a SaaS type solution. So you're saying do the architecture to get the solution for the platform that the customer has. They're not buying a platform, they end up with a platform as a result of super cloud path. All right, so you mentioned, that's a great point I went double-click on when you just said, because I like that what you said. What's the deployment strategy in your mind for super cloud? I'm an architect, I'm at an enterprise in the Midwest, I'm an insurance company. Got some cloud action going on. I'm mostly on premise. I got the mandate to transform the company. We have apps will be fully transformed in five years. What's my strategy, what do I do? What's the deployment strategy, single global instance, code in every region, on every cloud? It needs to be a solution which is available as a SaaS service. So from the customer's perspective, they are onboarding into the super cloud and then the super cloud is allowing them to do whatever they are used to do historically and in the new world, that needs to come together. And that's what we have built is that we have brought everything together in a way that what used to take months or years and now taking an hour or two hours and then people test it for a week or so and deploy it in production. I want to bring up something we were talking about before we were on camera, about the TCPIP, the OSI model. That was a concept that destroyed the proprietary NOSs or coppering systems of the mini computers which brought in an era of tech prosperity for generations. TCPIP was kind of the magical moment that allowed for that kind of super networking connection. Internet, that was called as a category. It feels like something's going on here with super cloud, the way you describe it. It feels like there's this unification idea like the reality is we've got multiple stuff sitting around by default. You either clean it up or get rid of it, right? Or it's almost, it's either a nuance, nuisance or chaos. We live in the new world now. We don't have the luxury of time. So we need to move as fast as possible to solve the business problems. And that's what we are running into. If we don't have automated solutions, which scale, which solve our problems, then it's going to be a problem. And that's why SAS is so important in today's world. Why should we have to deploy the network piecemeal? Why can't we have a solution which solves our problem as we move forward and we accomplish what we need to accomplish and move forward? And we don't really need standards here, do? It's not how we need a standards body if you have unification. So because things move so fast, there's no time to create a standards body. And that's why you see companies like ours popping up, which are trying to create a common infrastructure across all clouds. Otherwise, if we vent the standardization path, it may take long. Eventually, we should be going in that direction, but we don't have the luxury of time. That's what I was trying to get to. Well, what's interesting is, is that to your point about standards and ratification, what ratifies a de facto anything? In the old days, there was some technical bodies involved, but here I think developers drive everything. If you look at the developers and how they're voting with their code. They're instantly, organically defining everything as a collective intelligence. And just like you're putting out the paper and making it available, everybody is contributing to that. That's why you need to have APIs and tariff form type constructs, which are available so that the customers can continue to improve upon that. And that's the net DevOps, right? So that you need to have. What was once sacrilege to say in business school back in the days when I got my business degree, I was making my CS degree was, no one wants to have a better mousetrap, it's a bad business model to have a better mousetrap. In this case, the better mousetrap, the better solution actually could be that thing. It is that thing. That's the trigger that tips over the industry. And that's where we are seeing our customers. I mean, we have some publicly referenceable customers like Coke, a water music group, or multiple others and chart industries. The way we are solving the problem, they have some of the largest environments in the industry from the cloud perspective. And the whole network infrastructure is running on the Elkira infrastructure. And they're able to adopt new clouds within days rather than waiting for months to architect and then deploy and then figure out how to manage it and operate it. It's available as a service. Literally. And we've heard from your customer warner they were just on the program. Yes, okay, okay. So they're building a super cloud. So super clouds aren't just for tech companies. No. You guys build a super cloud for networking. It is. They're building their own super clouds on top of all this new stuff. Talk about that, Dinah. Healthcare providers, financials, high tech companies, even startups. One of our startup customers, Techeon, right? They have these dealerships that they provide sales and support services to across the globe. And for them to be able to onboard those dealerships, it is 80% less time to production. That is real money, right? So maybe Atheft can give you a lot more examples of customers who are deploying it. Yeah, talk about some of the customer activity. What are they like? Are they laggards? Are they innovators? Are they trying to hit the easy button? Are they coming in late? Or are you got some high business customers? Actually, most of our customers, all of our customers are customers in general. I don't think they have a choice but to move in this direction because the cloud has, everything is quick now. So the cloud teams are moving faster in these enterprises. So now they cannot afford the network not to keep up pace with the cloud teams. So they don't have a choice but to go with something similar where you can build your network on demand and bring up your network as quickly as possible to meet all those use cases. So I'll give you an example. So the demand is high for what you guys have. Demand is very high because the cloud teams have, they're going fast. They are going fast and there's no stopping. And the network teams, they have to keep up with them. And you cannot keep deploying networks the way you used to deploy back in the day. And as far as the use cases are concerned, there are so many use cases which our customers are using our platform for. One of the use cases, I'll give you an example of these financial customers. Some of the financial customers, they have their customers who they provide data like stock exchanges that provide market data information to their customers out of the data centers. But now their customers are moving into the cloud as well. So they need to come in from the cloud. So when they are coming in from the cloud you cannot be giving them data from your data center because that takes time and you are airpinning everything back. Moving data is like moving money someone said. Exactly. And the other thing is like you have to optimize your traffic flows in the cloud as well because every time you leave the cloud you get charged a lot. So you don't want to leave the cloud unless you have to leave the cloud, your traffic. So you have to come up or use a service which allows you to optimize all those traffic flows as well. My final question to you guys first of all thanks for coming on the SuperCloud program. Really appreciate it and congratulations on your success. And you guys have a great positioning and I'm a big fan. And I have to ask, you guys are agile, nimble startup, smart on the cutting edge. SuperCloud concept seems to resonate with people who are kind of on the front range of this major wave. While all the incumbents like Cisco, Microsoft, even AWS they're like, I think they're looking at like, what is, I think it's coming up really fast this trend because I know people talk about multicloud. I get that. But like this whole SuperCloud is not just SaaS. It's more going on there. What do you things going on between the folks who get it SuperCloud get the concept and some are who are scratching their heads whether it's the Cisco's or someone like, I don't get it. What's why is SuperCloud important for the folks that aren't really seeing it? So first of all, I mean, the customers what we saw about six months, 12 months ago were a little slower to adopt the SuperCloud kind of concept. And they were leading edge customers who were coming and adopting it. Now all of a sudden over the last six to nine months we've seen a flurry of customers coming in that they are from all disciplines are all very diverse set of customers. And they're starting to see the value of that because of the practical implications of what they're doing. You know, these shadow IT type environments are no longer working and there's a lot of pressure from the management to move faster, right? And that's where they're coming in. And perhaps if you can give a few examples of Yeah, and I'll also just add to your point earlier about the network needing to be there because the cloud teams are like, let's go faster. And the network's always been slow but now it's been almost turbo charged. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And as I said, like there was no choice. You had to move in the same district. Yeah. And so, and the other thing I would add a little bit is now if you look at all these enterprises most of their traffic is from even from which is coming from the on-prem it's going to the cloud, SaaS applications or public clouds. And it's more than 50% of traffic which is leaving your, you know what you used to call your network, the private network. So now it's like, you know before it used to just connect sites to data centers and sites together. Now it's a cloud as well as the SaaS applications. So it's either internet bound or the public cloud bound. So now you have to build a network quickly which caters to all these use cases. Yeah. And that's where like something. And you guys, your solution to me is you eliminate all that work for the customer. Now they can treat the cloud like a bag of Legos. Yeah. And do their thing. I oversimplify what you're not talking about. Right, right. Exactly. And to answer your question earlier about what about the big companies coming in and you know they slow to adopt and you know what normally happens is when Cisco came up right there used to be 16 different protocol suites. And then we finally settled on TCP IP and decknet or Apple talk or X and S or you know you name it, right? Those companies did not adapt to the networking the way it was supposed to be done. And guess what happened, right? So if the companies in the networking space do not adopt this new concept or new way of doing things I think some of them will become extinct over time. Well I think the forcing function too is the cloud teams as well. So you got two revolutions. You got architectural relevance. Right, right. It's very important. Cost, speed. And I look at it as a very similar disruption to what Cisco to the world very early days did to bring the networking out, right? And it became the internet. But now we are going through the cloud. It's the cloud era, right? How does the cloud evolve over the next 10, 15, 20 years? Everything is going to be offered as a service, right? So slowly data centers go away. The network becomes a plumbing thing very, you know simple to deploy and everything on top of that is virtualized in the cloud like manner. And that makes the networks hardened, more secure. More secure. It's a great way to be secure. You remember the glory days. We'll go back 15 years that Cisco conversation was we got to move up the stack all the managers would fight each other. Now what does that actually mean? Stay where we are, stay in your lane. This is kind of like the networks version of moving up the stack because not so much up the stack but the cloud is everywhere. It's the most horizontally scaled. It's extending into the on-premise. It is already moving towards the edge, right? So you will see a lot. So programability is a big program. So you guys are hitting programmability, compatibility, getting people into an environment they're comfortable operating. So the office people love it. Spans the clouds to a level of SLA management. It might not be perfectly spanning applications but you can actually know latencies between clouds, measure that. And then so you're basically managing your network now as the overall infrastructure. Right, and it needs to be a very intelligent infrastructure going forward, right? Because customers do not want to wait to be able to troubleshoot. They don't want to be able to wait to deploy something, right? So it needs to be a level of automation. Okay, so the question for you guys both will end on is, what is the enablement that, because you guys are a disruptive enabler, right? You create this fabric. You're going to enable companies to do stuff. What are some of the things that you see and your customers might be seeing as things that they're going to do as a result of having this enablement? Yeah, yeah. What are some of those? I mean perhaps you can talk through the sum of the customer experience on that. It's the agility and we are allowing these customers to move very, very quickly and build these networks which meet all these requirements inside the cloud. Because as Amir was saying in the cloud era, networking is changing. And if you look at going back to your comment about existing networking vendors, some of them still think that just connecting to the cloud, using some concepts like cloud on-route is cloud networking, but it's changing now. So, So there's apps that are depending upon? Exactly. It's all distributed. Like IT infrastructure as I said earlier is all distributed. And at the end of the day you have to make sure that wherever your user is, wherever your app is, you are able to connect them securely. Historically it used to be about building a router bigger and bigger and bigger. And then interconnecting those routers. Now it's all about horizontal scale. You don't need to build big. You need to scale it, right? And that's what cloud brings to the table. It's a cultural change for Cisco and Juniper because they have to understand that they're still could be in the game and still win. Exactly. The question I have for you, what are your customers telling you that what's some of the anecdotal like? Because you guys have a good solution. Is it, oh my God, you guys saved my butt? Or what are some of the commentary that you hear from the customers in terms of praise and glory from your solution? Oh, some of them say it's, when we do a demo and stuff, they say it's too hard to believe. It's too hard to, it's hard. I don't believe you. I don't believe you. Because now you're able to bring up a global network within minutes with networking services like, let's say you have APAC on-prem users, cloud also there, cloud here, users here. You can bring up a global network with full routed connectivity between all these endpoints with security services. You can bring up like a firewall from a third party or R services in the middle. This is a matter of minutes now. And this is all high speed connectivity with SLAs. And imagine like before connecting, Singapore to US East or Hong Kong to Frankfurt. If you were putting your infrastructure in colos like equinex, you would have to go figure out like how am I going to... CLI in, connect to it. Yeah, a lot of hassles. If you had to put like firewalls in the middle, segmentation, you had to isolate different entities. That's called heavy lifting. So what they're seeing is, it's like customer comes in, there's a disbelief, can you really do that? Then they try it out, they go, wow, this works. They deploy it in a small environment. And then all of a sudden they start taking off. And literally we have seen customers go from few thousand dollars a month or a year type deployments to multi-million dollars a year type deployments in very, very short amount of time in a few months. And you guys are pay as you go. Pay as you go. Usage, cloud-based compatibility. Exactly. And it's amazing once they get to deploy the solution. What's the variable on the cost? On the cost? Is it traffic or is it... It's multiple different things. It's packaged into the overall solution. And as a matter of fact, we end up saving a lot of money to the customers. And not only in one way, in multiple different ways. And we do a complete TOI analysis for the customers. So it's bandwidth, it's number of connections. It's the amount of compute power that we are using. Similar things that they're used to. Just like the cloud constructs. Yeah. All right. Networking super cloud. Great, congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you for coming on. Thank you. Super clouding. And looking forward to seeing more of the demand. Yeah. Instant networking. I'm sure it's going to be huge with the edge exploding. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Okay, this is super cloud two event here in Palo Alto. I'm John Furrier. The network super cloud is here. Check out Alquira. I'm John Furrier, the host. Thanks for watching.