 Welcome to Saul cast tonight. We're talking about season five episode six of better call Saul titled Wexler versus Goodman. This is our instant take. We just watched the episode So these will be our raw immediate reactions to having seen it But make sure to check back later in the week where we'll have our full recap and analysis By the way, if you're watching this on youtube on our channel one take Make sure to hit the link in the description that'll take you to our podcast So you too can hear that recap My name is gill. I'm here with my brother adam Hello, and my other brother slash tech guy alone. Yo With that, let's jump into tonight's episode So kim and jimmy, let's just go right to that last scene They're arguing it seems like kim is done with jimmy. I can't keep doing this We've got it. We got to put a stop to this or We can get married Kim has been Every time I think I understand where she's going She consistently surprises me when she went to see jimmy in court a couple of episodes ago I thought she was going to be disgusted with his tactics. She asked him to help with acker here. I thought This is it. They're done What the hell happened? All right? Well, this is that It's not a surprise. This is like classic kim because every time she looks like it's Okay, this is the last straw for her. She decides to double down with him, right? This goes to what I've been saying every episode which is She needs to pick a side of the morality coin And I think this is her finally realizing she has to go all in On the good side or the bad side aka get married or completely separate Are you saying getting married is the good side? No, that's a bad side That's a bad side joining sol goodman in his antics for life I didn't read the scene as her saying I'm okay with what jimmy did and in the future. I want to be involved in these schemes Usually I connect the two where when she's talking about sol It's sol the person she loves but combined with that. It's her deciding to get involved in these immoral gray areas For some reason in this scene it felt to me like that was a very She wanted jimmy. I didn't necessarily see her picking one side of the coin good versus Bad for lack of a better term. Yeah, and I didn't I didn't picture Them being married as her saying I'll be your your partner in crime for the rest of her lives I thought of it more as The only way I'll be able to trust you when you're using me in these schemes Is if I know that at the end of the day where husband and wife Yeah, I mean I always picture and said more of a subconscious thing that she might not even Realize that this is what she's doing right potentially now. I will say It's I'm very deliberate that this is the episode where they chose to show us a flashback To kim's childhood And I'm sure there is something in that scene which tells us a little bit about why kim is The way that she is we see that her mother was an alcoholic That kim sort of had to take care of herself to some degree I need to rewatch the episode I need to think about it some more and so I don't know what the connection is yet But there must be something I don't know if kim considers marriage To be this very special thing where once I guess most people do right? I don't know if in her mind she said right before the marriage thing she said This is what you do. You lie I lie Let's get married I don't know. I'm trying to piece it together. I can't figure it out yet Uh, do is it possible that she drank much more wine than we realized because as far as we could tell she poured it But she didn't have a sip and I don't know if she was just chugging it on the way home Let's get very jibby More like saw bad, man Never do that again I'm gonna do that to you later All right. Well So we're gonna try and get to the bottom of this but that may not happen in the instant take That's why you've got to come back for the full recap But rewinding a little bit Why did sol Betray her sandback her in that meeting because he was so proud of his work He loved it. He he he wasn't just proud of the videos that he made but he was proud of the whole scheme the whole idea uh He needed to you to execute, right? Yeah, and I think kim calls it out because she says You won jimmy keeps saying everybody won and to some degree. He's right akar won Uh kim he's not wrong when he lists out the people who benefit from this but really She's saying it was about him winning It wasn't even I said maybe in his mind. It was also about kim winning He might be honest when he said you and I won even though he did it without her knowledge But he wants to win. He even compared it to uh home run. Yeah, right And so it's just that obsession where he just has to Win it's I mean and part part of that must come from the relationship He had with chuck and just the like the basic sense of competition, right? Right, right. There was the karaoke song that jimmy and chuck sang together. Mm-hmm winner takes it all Oh tune in Later this week for our full recap of the episode to hear me performing that live at karaoke In honor of what you sent me the clip. I you know, I wasn't good. I could have spliced it in in a previous night Oh, wait, did you I can't remember. No, I didn't oh because it wasn't worth it wasn't worth it All right, never mind. You may hear it. You may not hear it either way. I did it the week before this season premiered Uh, I performed at a karaoke in honor of the upcoming season Wow This youtube video has more drama than vertical salt It's gonna be a lot of let's get married Uh Now when were you surprised so when kim shows up and tell salt, you know, I want to call it off We're not doing this Did any part of you think that he was really not going to go through with it? No You knew he was going to he had to you could see it. He Did not want to quit at all. He tried so hard to convince her to keep going through it Yeah, and I don't think any part of him Felt bad about it either. No he Yeah, and I was just gonna say and I think he really didn't want her to come in the store and help clean up because he wanted to keep filming and finish up What they were working on Yeah, he still was filming his part. Oh, yeah, right, right I think the writers of this show they they're they're playing with us so much because One of the benefits of this being a prequel is that we go in with these built-in expectations Which on one hand, I think most writers would see that as a problem people know where this is going I think the writers of Better Call Saul they use it against us They know that we're all expecting kim to disappear at some point. Yeah, so they keep saying here's how it happens Kim is done with him. Oh wait. No, she's not And it's so effective. It gets me. I don't know how many more times I can fall for this But it worked on me again this episode and also again for all we know They do get married and they're together throughout the entire You know, I kind of hope I hope that's what happens because I like them Yeah Mrs. Mrs. Goodman those two crazy kids They're gonna work this out We got we definitely need to think more about the the clip of her as a as a child. Yeah Why is that meant to somehow explain her psychology here? Yeah, I don't think we're gonna figure it out right now, but right I think it must be because but we've seen this aspect of kim many times the flip-flopping Constantly having to go back to jimmy But this was maybe the most extreme example we've seen I mean, we've never seen a betrayal of this level So public so humiliating and then for her to flip so far back in terms of flip-flopping So the fact that this was maybe the most extreme example we've seen I think it's very deliberate. They chose this to be the episode where we see that flashback So there must be something in that and as an aside when she was kind of Tearing him a new one at the end and she said you always Uh, I'm the sucker you end up playing me She said something about him doing it again and she didn't Explicitly say it, but I think she was actually talking about the courtroom when Jimmy gave that impassioned speech about chuck, right? Yeah, I think you're right and she started crying I think she was alluding to that but she has no idea Right, right. Yeah. I was actually trying to remember. I was like, what is he talking about? But what is she talking about? But like that is definitely the one And I think you're right. I don't think he even knows. He's probably what is she talking about? Yeah Uh copyright infringement. So we were right. Everybody was right. That was the thing they found And why do you think they why wasn't that enough? They had the copyright infringement claim But jimmy also had to throw in this crazy defamatory commercial I think it just puts more pressure on and it's Kevin was ready for a protracted legal battle With mr. Acker. He was ready to go years Fighting against him if he had to But I don't think he's ready to go for years with that while His reputation is getting totally destroyed too Right. I think it wouldn't have been the copyright infringement claim isn't public enough and even if it was public Most people would look at that and say I mean, I guess you could twist that in a way to say they screwed over this woman But making it so public and effective with this commercial it just cranks the pressure up I mean they accused him of everything from like sexual harassment to people getting sick from the mold Inside the bank or get you get you end up itchy. Oh, yeah Yep Did you I think a couple of us one we were watching this I heard a few I've never hated sol this much before What were your feelings towards him this episode? I think what I said was it was in this moment that sol truly became heisenberg Yeah, I couldn't I mean, he's just evil and it's very it's hilarious and it's super clever, but It's getting to the point where I don't like what he's doing to other people Right, right. We didn't even mention poor Howard. Oh, yeah, that yeah, that was That was horrible It's almost not even funny anymore. Well, I know But I mean he doesn't deserve it what what did Howard do exactly to deserve like He basically now has this like hidden force just tormenting him. Yeah He doesn't even know why it's happening to him and I mean we keep going back to this, but I just keep wondering Where is the Howard storyline going? Yeah, I don't know where it's going But I think this confirms that the whole him throwing the bowling balls at his car was That's all it was. It wasn't part of some kind of scheme. It was just Oh, I want to I want to screw with Howard right right and he's gonna keep screwing with Howard until When when is it it's a hobby? So I mean most hot if if you have a hobby that you enjoy you just keep doing it The next gene flash forward is uh, hey Howard is your refrigerator running? He mails him like packages full of Sand and or like glitter bombs or anything like that just to screw with him Like Jimmy, are you still thinking about that job interview that job? It's like it's been 10 years Howard Of course. I'm still thinking about it Yeah, I don't know how to feel about salt this point because I hated him when he was messing with kim I hated him when he was messing with Howard and then at the end Kim's flip-flop just threw me for a loop because now I'm wondering I hated him mostly because he betrayed kim But I don't want to feel betrayed on her behalf if she sees something here where I don't know if she wants to marry him now Then maybe there's just something about their relationship. I don't understand So right now. I don't hate salt, but there were moments this episode where I did Feel like most relationships are confusing Yeah I will still say I do not hate salt when he's messing with Howard Howard was pretty kind of setting to salt in the past So no, you don't think somewhat but maybe it's just because the focus was so much on chuck I never thought Howard was I always thought Howard was trying to be cordial professional But he was stuck in the middle of a difficult situation. I'm not saying Howard deserves any of this But I you know in the context of this being a tv show tv show. I enjoy it I actually do get a little frustrated when he messes with kim that I do I do think he's kind of a jerk I do have some actual emotions I mean Howard a few dents in his car isn't a big deal. He'll pay for that no problem Well, but this episode I think was a little bit harder to recover from is now he's starting to actually cause damage to his reputation I mean, what would you do if that happened to you? Probably what Howard did The guy that Howard was with was like, you want me to like give you a moment? He seemed to be kind of understanding how when I've dealt with this plenty of times before you got to just give them what they want The let me give you a minute to handle this. I'll be right back Now Howard gave jimmy a hard time early on in the series But there was that big moment where we find out he was basically doing all of that at chuck's request And then my impression since then has been howard felt caught in the middle between the two brothers and I can understand from jimmy's perspective why he feels the way he does But I very much feel bad for howard And I just can't I'm so curious where the howard storyline is going Will howard eventually realized jimmy's doing this to him Will jimmy get almost get frustrated that he's not getting credit for it And he'll he'll announce it to howard howard I did all that to you And then howard why? I thought we were friends and then with his new namaste Mentality he will be like saw I know I forgive you come work for me. Oh that'll annoy him I deserved everything you did Any other thoughts on saw kim Kevin how great was uh, saw his guitar playing when he was like when he was waiting for kim to come home and confront him He's just very poorly. He was strumming the guitar Is that the first song everybody learns on the guitar? I think so. Yeah, what song was it? Oh, it's a call I think that's it. Yeah And uh, how about when he's whistling? Yeah, we're in the money That was good. He just knows how to piss people off. Yeah The look on kevin's face After saw left and all the lawyers are arguing and kevin is just staring into space Kim can I go use the bathroom or the men's room or whatever? He was just saw got under his skin and my mind went right to that scene and breaking bad when That german executive at matricle got busted and he went to the bathroom and grabbed the like aed You know Defibrillator took it to the bathroom stuck the leads in his mouth and just committed suicide I didn't think kevin would do that, but I it reminded me of that. Yeah. Oh my god Well, we got nacho back this episode. We haven't seen him in a little while and uh The big thing that happens is gust tells nacho from now on you report to mike. Yeah, which That makes me feel a lot more comfortable for nacho I feel like mike still has a soft spot for him and it's going to look out for him And I was trying to remember is gust's aware that mike and nacho have any sort of history Because if he if he was aware, I would think this is not a great idea because leaving the two of them together Mike does have that soft spot for nacho and so the first thought I had is this is a bad idea for gust But I'm trying to remember if gusts would have any reason to know they have that history I suspect the answer is he wouldn't have any reason to to know that I'm not sure. Does gust know Why hector had the stroke? Yeah, that's how he has control over nacho now He said, you know, I know what you did. I you you have to do anything I say from now on So Okay, but he doesn't know that mike was involved with that at one point, right? He's I don't mike wasn't because nacho said nacho knew him by name. He said michael Yeah, that's sure. Yeah, so I think that you're the gringo lalo was talking about Yeah, I don't know. We'll have to figure that out digging on this um And it seems like We we were wondering last episode are we going to see mike Ruminating and debating over joining gusts or did we essentially see the moment where he's convinced and here It's sort of a done deal. Mike is clearly aligned with gusts now and he's accepted that position Yeah And and mike is already starting to look like the mike we know and love from breaking bad right like he's paternal And he has he's he seems to just always know what to do Right and we saw some great mike scheming this episode We haven't seen we haven't gotten a great mike scheme from a to z in a while We started to last episode where he starts ripping wires apart and then that lady ruined it by giving him a phone charger But here we basically see him take a picture Of lalo's car goes to a witness from the travel wire incident and he says this is the uh car you saw And i don't think she actually saw the car I think she sort of did and he kind of manipulated her into almost believing that's the car Pressures her to call the cops and report the car Then he reports the car And then later on finally he gets all the pieces in place He uses a police radio Cause the cops say the car has been spotted blah blah blah and lalo gets surrounded I I love watching mike do his just do that thing. Yeah, it was so satisfying. Did you have any idea where he was Going with all that? No, I mean not until he started calling that in and I was like, oh, this is genius This whole scheme felt like something sol would do if he was a little more badass of a person right, I mean like Mike is like he did sol needs to operate from behind the shield of the law. Yeah, yeah Right, right. It's just very sol like yeah all this scheming and um Lalo so mike versus lalo the showdown we've all been waiting for Is the showdown over did mike already win because we see lalo Reach for a gun when it's one cop then like five more cops show up And he drops his keys out the window episode is over and I should say we don't watch the next time on previews We like to avoid all spoilers. So oh, yeah, yeah, and we encourage you to do the same. It's more enjoyable that way Yeah, and we don't look as dumb Right In the preview you can see that lalo and mike getting a fist fight That do you think it's over did he did he take lalo out of commission? I hope not. I love lalo Yeah, I don't know that this is like a very unceremonious end for lalo I don't I don't think it's over the only way he can get out of it now though It's not a physical escape when we know he can do parkour We at the travel wire scene we saw him jump up and we know he's fast But do jails do prisons have ceilings? No one's ever thought to move these ceiling tiles He's gonna pull a Shawshank redemption So like 40 years from now. So in the gene timeline he shows up. Yeah No, but I think the only way he can get out of it is by talking Can he is there information he can give up? Can he Give up a hector. I don't know. There's got to be some chip. He can play with the cops I don't really see any other way out of it. I can't know. We know he's not going to give up hector Right because hector is a free man all the way up through breaking bad and gus Would make sure that he stays free It could be so we know he had he knows some stuff about gus When nacho and gus talk nacho mentions that lalo is reporting some of gus's people to the cops So they can make some arrests. So lalo probably hasn't given up all the information he has And the cops Well, they're arresting I was gonna say they don't know everything he's involved in but what they're arresting him for is murder Yeah, you know who knows how solid the evidence is there I don't know if the information he had I'm skeptical that the information he has to bargain with Would be enough to get him off of out of a murder charge Okay, this this brings me back to the the line from breaking bad that we keep puzzling over which was when sol Is out in the desert. He thinks he's gonna get killed. He says did lalo send you? It wasn't me as it was ignore you now What if the reason he thinks lalo might still be alive is that he's been in jail the whole time Could be and actually I can't believe this didn't occur to me But obviously sol has to be the one now to defend lalo Because who is lalo gonna call who's his lawyer? It's sol good. Yeah. Yeah, but that is gonna be awesome. Yeah, and This is great. Sol sol's gonna be in an impossible position right now How so because he's He has to defend the cartel While also being right and like now gus is gonna be thinking about him Like gus is the scariest person on this show and now he's gonna be like who's first of all Who's the guy who who flipped crazy eight and got made it so that i'm losing all of my dealers, right? It's sol goodman and now who is it that's has to defend lalo. It's all goodman Gus is not gonna like him. Well, so we were excited about mike versus lalo But we might now see sol versus gus And super professional straight laced gus facing down sol goodman That's gonna be incredible gus has mike on his team now Yeah, this is gonna be a mess, but we also we know in the long run that mike and sol end up being connected, right and that mike does some jobs for sol and I'm not sure exactly how this happened and breaking bad anymore But where did gus come from in in terms of hit getting connected with wall and jesse I think sol right so i i think he's gonna manage to get over on he you know He's like a cockroach like he's just gonna survive all this And I think he's just gonna glue himself to the the more successful party, right and Going back to the line from breaking bad Did lalo send you so clearly? sol has reason to think lalo would see sol as a trader So I think the the solid prediction would be sol aligning himself with gus Also, I think what we're seeing is what we've been seeing this whole series is sol ends up in some kind of seemingly impossible situation and he manages to To to wave his hands and talk his way out of something that no one else on earth could do right right and I think Every season we see him getting himself into some other kind of side quest or like weird legal battle This season it's the Mesa Verde stuff. It's the conflicts with kim and everything, but it's all training him for some kind of Peak moment that's probably gonna happen around the time of the series finale where I think Everything's happening with gus and with lalo and with the cartels It's all gonna Center on to him and it's gonna look like he's doomed and he's gonna figure out a way to survive And it'll involve huel sneaking something into or out of someone's pocket. Yeah Sol's just gonna start crying and then he's like this worked great last season it seems to be working on that It's not gonna work on gus Any other final thoughts on this episode I can't wait to see what sol does to howard next Yeah, I think we might get that chicago sunroof. Oh my god Yeah, it's kind of crazy to think that in this show I'm excited to find out when the head of a drug cartel gus Goes head to head with mike's help against lalo and sol goodman gets involved excited about that And i'm like are kim and jimmy gonna get married. Yeah They both have as much weight. It's it's it's awesome Yeah, so Love that love this episode and I can't wait to see what happens in the next four And I think with that we can say thanks for listening. Thanks for watching If you're listening to this as a podcast make sure to hit the link in the show notes Check out our youtube channel one take where these instant takes are posted as videos You can see me. You can see adam. Yeah, and you can hear a line. You can't really see him. You don't want to see him Anyway, hey I gotta work the machinery back here. That's right. He's our tech guy. We're told he's good looking but I'm looking at him right now. He's a very beautiful man Anyway, just like lalo. Thank you. So you're gonna want to check out the youtube channel. We've got the instant takes on there We're also reviewing westworld. We're reviewing devs We're covering movie news tv news all kinds of great stuff So you're gonna want to check that out and again as a reminder if you're watching this Hit the link in the show notes in the description Subscribe to the podcast so you can hear our full recap and analysis Later in the week. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening and we'll see you on the recap We didn't I'm gill. Yeah, we need to turn back on I'm gill. I'm adam I'm alone and this is star cast instant take