 Before I came out here, I talked to Rand about my personal brand, which is Sexy Black Church Lady. So when I say how y'all doing, I'm going to need some real response and some amen's and stuff as we start having this conversation today, OK? So I'm here to talk to you about a no big deal, little tiny topic, how to be a happy marketer. Before I get into the slides, I've had this one overarching career insight about how to be a happy marketer that I want to share with you, and it's really all about keeping your career, keeping your work, keeping what we do every day in perspective. The best way I know how to articulate this is to share with you this really profound Buddhist adage that I learned back in my agency days when my first full-time jobs in marketing. You guys will definitely want to write this down and imprint it on your heart. It goes like this. It's PR, not ER. It's PR, not ER, right? We're marketers, but you get the gist. The idea is that fear and anxiety of our leaders, of the other people around us, about what we're doing can be very contagious. But before I started in marketing, I had a super rich life journey that included things like I was a teenage mom. I had my son when I was 17. So I now have a 24-year-old, which is odd, because I feel like he's older than me. Don't know how that happened. I was a probation officer. I was an attorney. I was a real estate broker at the very, very worst part of the great, other people call it the Great Recession. I call it the not-so-great recession. So years later, when I was the chief marketer at my fitness pal and my team would start to freak out about whether a thing that we were doing was going to work or not, I would ask them to come along with me and do some triage. Do we know where other children are? Is anyone going to jail? Is anyone going to lose their house? If not, we're good. We can work through everything else, because we're marketers. And we have to keep what we do in perspective. And by that, I don't mean to minimize what we do. The flip side of that is we live in the best time ever to ever have been marketers. The energy flows so fast. The creativity moves so fast. Technology moves so fast. You can go from concept to actually immediately directly touching a customer so much more quickly than has ever been possible before. And frankly, so much more quickly, I saw once I got on to executive teams, then any other function in the company, you have the ability to have that impact. So I do talk to a lot of fearful and stressed out marketers, and one of the pieces of advice that I give them all the time is, if you're fearful and stressed out because you're working in a fear-based organization because people do more often make decisions than in your company because they're afraid of what will happen if they don't do something, then out of the motivation to create something beautiful or impactful. Or if you're just working on products that you don't really like that much or you don't feel like are that impactful or good, don't work on them. Just don't work on them. There are many, many companies out there, many leadership teams who are conscious and consciously trying to create beautiful companies, beautiful cultures for their people, and products that may or may not be changing the whole world, but are creating a positive impact on the people the customers you serve. So go work there. Now, I could actually drop the mic on that because if you followed all of that advice, you would probably be a happy marketer. But I promised I would talk to you a little bit about the transformational consumer and the content crisis that we're in. So let's do that. Here we go. First, since we're talking about fear and happiness, I want us to have, let's do a little exercise and group vulnerability. I want you to each take one minute, pick a person next to you or near you, and each of you give an answer to this question. What are you afraid of? Tell your neighbor one thing you're afraid of. Go. Now, make sure you switch. Here's the deal. Human beings, baby humans like this guy right here, we're born with two fears and two fears only. We're born with a fear. Does anyone know what they are? Shout it out if you do. They're born with a fear of falling and the fear of loud noises. Those are the only two fears that humans are born with. So the first takeaway every time I do this exercise is that tonight everybody should give a ring to their parents and figure out what happened that you acquired so many other fears in your lifetime. But most of my work, in most of my work, I talk with CEOs and CMOs and marketing teams and based on my extensive research with these audiences, I am petitioning the powers that be to add one more fear to the list of inborn human fears. The fear that you'll get no love on Instagram, the fear that no one will follow your Twitter channel, the fear that no one will download your app and no one will buy what you're selling. Now, generally I think of the fears that I hear the most as bucketed under the fear that we won't grow. The lack of growth is the biggest fear that I hear from CEOs and CMOs and it's usually lack of growth of leads, of customers and of followers. And what they usually do to fight those fears is also growth related, right? You solve the fear of growth with growth hacking. You solve these fears with brand advertising and user acquisition efforts. Marketers are afraid to, the ones that I talk to are often afraid of the silly metrics that they're given, metrics that they know don't actually mean much of the business. They're fearful that as soon as they put a campaign out, somebody, I call this all the world's a marketer a little bit, everyone who's ever seen a commercial feels like they know how to be a marketer. So that fear of someone's constantly criticizing the work because it's so public. The fear that as soon as we get started and get traction, someone's gonna come along and move our target again. Having to market products that you're not really that into and ultimately the lack of influence in the organization, the lack that people will hear you enough to give you the resources that you need to do the work that you need to do. Now, I think even these fears almost all track up to and live under the leadership team's fears of lack of growth of customers, lack of growth of leads, lack of growth of followers. And I think those are worthy things to want for your company, but I feel like we are all looking fixated on the wrong thing, right? When you look beyond the vanity metrics about how many customers we have, how many followers we have, how many downloads we've gotten, to add the metrics that it actually takes for a company to succeed, you see quickly that we're all afraid of the wrong thing. As far as I can tell, any company and any industry at any stage will be successful if it engages two audiences over and over. It's customers and it's employees. And the data that I've seen shows that most companies aren't actually doing that great a job engaging either it's customers or their employees. Now, Track Maven's report says that brand published content is up 35% and customer engagement with that content is down 17%. We're publishing more, people are engaging with it less. Ad data, there's a really interesting, whole new field of eye tracking ad data that shows that even when you can get customers in front of a screen and play a video ad on that screen, 60% of them avoid the ad by just turning their heads, just by turning their heads. I have almost only worked on apps, so I know a lot of the big brands out there are looking to solve for some of these problems by creating an app. But I will tell you from my experience with apps that it's way harder to get people to engage with an app than it is to get them to engage with a tangible product. Local Lytics says that something like 60% of apps that are downloaded will be used less than 10 times and the vast majority of them are used only the single time they were downloaded, just the time they were downloaded. And the news on employee engagement is not so much better either. And I actually see a lot of parallels between engaging your internal audiences and your external audiences. Gartner says like 70% of American employees rank somewhere on this spectrum of disengagement from kind of like neutral and meh to toxically actively hateful toward their employers and toward their work. Now, we have a disengagement dilemma when you can't actually even pay people to be engaged. If we fear anything, it's not the lack of growth of followers and that sort of thing we should fear. We fear should be disengagement because disengagement is the number one limiting factor on every business. If we're fixating on growth and getting people into the top of the funnel without paying attention to engaging them and stopping churn, what we call it churn in the app world, once they're in, it's like pouring champagne down the bathtub drain, right? When you get to a place where your cost to acquire a customer is greater than the lifetime value of that customer to your business, that is not a sustainable business model. And the other reason I think that disengagement is the number one limiting factor on businesses is that you can actually buy growth, right? You can growth hack your way and get people into the funnel, you can brand advertise your way enough, you can buy followers, you cannot buy engagement. You cannot buy engagement, you have to build it. And if you do build it, then having an engagement engine, making your marketing, your content marketing programming serve as an engagement engine for your business takes the limits off of any business in any vertical. It positions you as the marketer who does that to be a real hero in your entire company. Now, engagement means lots of things, there are lots of metrics around it. When I say engagement, I generally mean just people care about what you sell, they buy what you sell, they read what you publish, they watch your videos, they tell other people about it. An engaged customer is a customer who cares about your product, opens your emails, spends time on your app. These are the things that takes for a business to survive. A deeply engaged customer is a love mark and I'm not sure if you're all familiar with that, the phrase and the framework of love marks, there is an incredible book written by Kevin Roberts from Sachi and Sachi about the love mark phenomenon. But he just says that a love mark is a brand that has earned its customers loyalty beyond all reason when you think about what the product actually is. And he says that quantifies that love marks are brands that have reached high levels of love and respect from their customers. Now, the thing I disagree with him about is he says the way you know if your brand is a love mark is that if your customers can't get to your product, they protest loudly. Now, I've never worked for a CEO who would let me take the product away from customers to see if they protest loudly. But I have spent enough time on executive teams now to know that in C-suite, SIG engagement actually is measurable along all of these lines, return visits, time in store, time on site, time in app, repeat purchases, all of these things that ultimately lead to increased customer lifetime value. Now, what do you do, so we know engagement's important, what do you do to drive engagement? Most often, the companies that I talk with are looking toward digital things to drive engagement. They're looking at digital, they're looking at social, they're looking at big data, they're looking at demographics. I argue that this misunderstands the essential nature of the disengagement dilemma. Digital solutions work for digital problems and I'm a digital chick, but I'm going to show you my exhibit A, the lawyer and me couldn't resist doing that, of why I don't think disengagement is a digital problem. Normally, I require, actually let's try it guys, let's actually read this quote all out, it's gonna be music to my ears, let's do it now. Okay, advertisements, all of you, are now so numerous that they are very negligently perused and it is therefore become necessary to gain attention by magnificence of promises and by eloquence, sometimes sublime and sometimes pathetic. I think you can tell by that language that this quote was not like tweeted last week. Does anyone wanna guess when this quote was written? Clue, that's the guy who said it in 1759. This guy was writing about advertising being disengaging in 1759. So disengagement can't be a digital problem, disengagement is a human problem. Disengagement is a human problem and the solution will also be human. We will only fix the disengagement dilemma by understanding the undying principles of human motivation and reorienting our product and our marketing efforts to align with the reasons why people do what they do and why they want what they want and buy what they buy. Now, here's some basic truths about human. Human beings since time was begun have wanted to be healthier, they've wanted to be wealthier and they've wanted to be wiser. It is still to this day one of the most powerful purchasing motivators the desire people have to transform their lives in these ways. The challenge with these things, healthier, wealthier and wiser, as aspirations is that all of them require behavior change and behavior change is hard. I won't get into it, but there are a bunch of different brain circuits and structures that make it really, really hard for people on their own to build good habits and to break bad habits. So there is a particular consumer group, I'm not gonna go into the framework a ton because I wanna get into the meat of the action items around it, but there is a particular consumer group who has figured out that there are brands out there that can help them live healthier, wealthier, wiser lives and they're constantly eagerly out there engaging with those brands. They're early adopters, they're highly influential in the buying behavior of the people around them. Those people are called the transformational consumer. That's what the book is about. In order to engage the hearts and minds of people you have to be serving their aspirations. And if you wanna be the kind of, oh, one point is unless you're selling, this is not just a framework that is helpful for health companies or personal finance companies. I say that unless you're selling actually like alcohol, tobacco and firearms like the federal agency and there's some arguments about alcohol being a nice stress manager, but we won't go into that right now. Unless you're selling one of those things you really can reach and engage customers by helping unlock their desires to live healthier, wealthier, wiser lives. I've even had people write me in and say in your book you said garbage bags weren't transformational, but my family just read the Marie Kondo book about the life changing magic of tidying up and we went out and bought a bunch of garbage bags to like change our lives. So you're wrong, that's garbage bags can be transformational too. If you wanna be the kind of marketer that engages customers, that drives business results and that as a result develops internal influence and autonomy and sovereignty over your decision making, if you wanna be the kind of marketer that consistently gets the resources you need to do the programs that you wanna do, do these things. Let's go through them rapid fire. The first is to rethink what you sell. You don't sell a product, you don't sell a software or app or a packaged thing or even real estate. What you sell is a transformation. You sell a transformation from having the problem that your company exists to solve to no longer having that problem. You may sell confidence or being more successful and your customers being more successful in their career, being more productive or prosperous. You may sell well-being in their bodies or their relationships. You may sell something that helps them be better world citizens or better parents. But what you sell is easing the frictions that they experience along their journey or you sell more fuel for them to get from one stage of their journey to the next stage, to get across their path and their journey faster, more joyously, more beautifully even or more easily than they would have done without your product. A lot of this idea of rethinking what you sell is sort of my rallying cry to all of us as marketers to get out of that product first worldview that is very, very easy to get in when you work in a product company because everyone else in the company is very focused on your product first. This is about shifting into a problem first worldview. It's about no longer fixating on the things that you sell and instead fixating on what problems you actually solve for people. In the process of rethinking what you sell, you will have to rethink your customer and who they are. Your customer is not just your existing customer base, the people who follow you on Twitter or Facebook, even like target buyers of your product. Your customer is anyone who is out there dealing with the high level human scale problem that your company exists to solve. You have to find what that is. You have to find that deeper human motivation that your company exists to solve. Often, just as a tip, the origin story is often, your founder's original reason for founding the company is often a clue as to what that deeper motivation is. I'm gonna give you a couple of examples here on how to define the PDC as a term I use in the book. It's a personal disruption conundrum, but the problem, the high level human scale problem that you exist to solve. I used to run consumer content marketing and PR at trulya.com. It was a real estate search engine. We never talked about ourselves as a real estate search engine. We always talked about what we were doing, the reason we existed as being to help people make as wise a possible decision as they could on the biggest transaction they would ever make in their lives, right? At Slack is another good example. Slack is a tool you could call a group chat software, but that's not what they talk about. They talk about their reason for existing as making workplaces more collaborative, helping people be more productive at work, and helping companies tap into the untapped hidden value in all the documents that exist that no one knows about in the company. My fitness pal, we were calorie counting app at Essence, but we didn't talk about that. We saw ourselves as like really kind of an Avenger, an Avenger superhero team out there battling the status quo injustice that we saw, which is that it's so much easier to live an unhealthy life in this world than a healthy one. We did not like that and we were on a mission to solve for that and to remove every kind of friction that we could possibly see from our customer's journey to living a healthier life. How many people here are familiar with the hero's journey or have used it in their work? Yes, okay. So there's one way in which I really strongly encourage you to start rethinking your customers and it requires that you know a little bit about the hero's journey. So the hero's journey is an age old human story arc. It's just sort of a narrative. Think of it as like a fill in the blank almost kind of story but it's much more than that. The hero's journey has been found in every one of the most engaging stories that human beings have ever told themselves across all time, across all cultures seriously. The hero's journey is this, it always involves a hero. It always involves that hero being called to an adventure so they have to leave home and go out into an unknown world where they have battles and they have quests. They're aided by mentors and guides and sometimes tools. They ultimately have one big battle, they are victorious and then they return home and when they return home they come home with the spoils of the quest but they also come home changed as changed people having been through this battle. And now a lot of marketing, there has been a lot of writing and marketing about using the hero's journey because the story type is so incredibly engaging to the human brain. The hero's journey is a story of Luke Skywalker, of Jesus Christ, of Wonder Woman, literally that arc is just an arc that your brain sees and goes, hey, that's just like a really good movie or a really good story. So many, many people have said all marketing should tell stories built on the hero's journey with the brand and the role of the hero. I argue that we should be creating this story arc through our content marketing but that your customer should be in the position of the hero, right? Then your job is to understand what their journey is, to understand what their quest is, to understand what the battles are that they fight along the way of solving the problem that you exist to solve and your job is to position your brand, whether it's your company's spokespeople or your content marketing or your actual product, your brand becomes their aid, their guide, their mentor and their tool. Now, in order to do all of that stuff, in order to understand their journey, you actually have to do, I call it, follow my number one rule of customer research, which is do customer research. It actually means like talking to customers, but remember the way I've defined them, not just people who already use what you use, get out in the world and talk to all of the people, not all of the people, talk to representatives of the people who are trying to solve the problem that your company exists to solve. Your whole company is now tasked with becoming an expert on their journey. And when I talk about doing customer journey mapping, which this is a very, very redacted version of the real customer journey map I built at my fitness pal, I am not talking about mapping your customer's lifecycle within your brand or your own channels. That is an important and worthy thing to do, that's just not this. What I'm talking about is mapping out their real world journey, their real world experience of going from having the problem that you exist to solve to no longer having that problem. And I'll share with you a few of the elements that you need to make sure you capture as you sort of document that journey. And there's actually like not really a shortcut to doing it. You can kind of do it online sometimes with like online communities, online listening, reading all the Reddit channels that are relevant to your subject matter. But you do have to actually immerse yourself in this information and spot patterns to create this kind of customer journey map. So what you are looking for are, you're looking to identify the universal stages that people experience as they go from having the problem to no longer having the problem. You're looking to inventory and identify the things that get them stuck, like resistance points, what are their pain points, their quit points, their failure points, where do they fail and go move backwards. You also are looking for the things that get them unstuck. What are the progress triggers that help people go from one stage of the journey to the next? You'll want to inventory what Google calls their micromoments, right? Where are the places along their path that they're looking to know something or go somewhere or do something or buy something? Who are they asking those questions of? It may not be online. That was something we kept finding over and over again. It was often them asking about workouts, information from the friend that they knew who had used my fitness pile to lose 20 pounds, right? Or asking their doctor or asking other real life people. You actually want to capture both the online and the offline behavior. And you want to capture their natural language patterns. You need to know, I am stunned and amazed on a pretty constant basis at the big gap between the way companies talk about the problem that they exist to solve and the way their customers talk about the problems that they're trying to solve with that product. One of my favorite example of this is that when we first started out at my fitness pile, we were publishing some content for beginner workout. It was like beginner workouts for people who had knee injuries, which we knew was a common thing in people who were new to working out. After we started talking to people, I mean, and we did an ethnography. I think we ended up going to 12 different cities, talked to people in every city. We didn't just talk to them. We actually went into their homes, into their kitchens, into their pantries. Went to the drive-through with them. We went to the gym with them. And I took executives from different functions to every one of those interviews. We heard people say over and over again the phrase bad knees. No one ever said knee injuries. People said bad knees. So we ended up shifting the way we published that content. It was the same content. We just changed, optimized our headlines for their natural language and people dramatically, dramatically engaged with it more. Let's see. All right, now the next step is to rethink your marketing. And it does take a little bit of courage and badassery to do this. Rethink your marketing in a couple of ways. First is we all wanna tell big, beautiful stories about our brands. I would encourage you to make the shift of thinking of the content that you publish as needing to be high value content that fuels your customer's journey, your customer's progress along that journey. This content should not all be about you. It should be for them. The second big shift in marketing that I encourage companies to make is from growth, from marketing focusing just on growth to focusing on engagement. Marketing is an incredible engagement and retention lever. And I have found, I'll talk to you a little bit about it in the next couple of slides, I have found a lot of resources opened up in my company once I proved that marketing was actually able to drive retention and ongoing engagement of customers, not just growth. The way that this works is you use the customer journey information from your journey map and the micro moments, information to drive your content strategy. It just, the journey tells you what problems that they're having that you can solve with content. So this is like about a shift from, right, content's not any longer just about you. It's problem solving content for their journey and the journey stages and the micro moments are the information you need to understand what problems they have that you can solve with content. Select, just choose some of the friction, some of the quit points, some of the progress triggers and you can use them to build your core messages or message pillars that span your entire content strategy. Micro moments tell you a little more specifically what content will resonate with which people at which stage in the journey and specifically where they will be at the different stages of their journey, sometimes online, sometimes off. The natural language stuff does what I just said which is that it just when you have your topics and titles and headlines and subject lines phrased in people's own natural language, it's an immediate engagement trigger. It clicks open their mental frames for like, oh, I care about bad knees because I say that out of my mouth all the time that I have bad knees. And the last step here is to turn your insight into influence. Now, you guys know who this is. This is Drew Carey, the comedian. Drew Carey has an amazing quote that I use in the book that goes something like this. Oh, you hate your job? There's a support group for that. It's called the bar and we meet there after work. Work doesn't have to be like that and you can take the customer insights that we're talking about developing for your marketing strategy and use them to gain internal influence in your company and make your life better. I'll be quick here, but the first thing that you have to do is to use, you guys are the best storytellers in the company, right? Use your storytelling superpowers to make the business case for the resources you need to do the work that you know you need to do. The point of influence that you have within your company is at the place where the transformation, the programs you wanna do, the content, the problem solving content programs that you wanna build, they drive transformation for both your customers and for your company. That is your point of influence. So after you get the customer insights that you need to build that sort of a program and before you start making the shift into actually doing the program, do not skip the step of internal PR. Do not skip that step. Tell the story upwards. Tell it to as high up as you can get in the company of the customer transformation. You believe that your new marketing shift will carry out and of the business results that you believe that marketing shift will carry out. And before you go big and put your whole budget on something, do a bunch of proof of concept tests. I am a huge fan of proof of concept tests. Before I will do a video campaign, before I will implement a new software to do something, I'll run a subject line in the email newsletter and prove that people are interested in that content. It's just like lean marketing methodology. If you know lean startup methodology, it's start with a minimum viable product, get customer feedback to it and use that as a data point to optimize and iterate your programming. We should be doing the same thing in marketing with our content. In fact, when I first came to MyFitnessPal, they had 45 million customers and no email system. To send an email, I had to have a designer hand HTML code the email. I had to give that to an engineer who had to build it into the app and we had to release an app store update to send any email to customers. But we had 45 million customers, so it was gonna cost a lot to build an email and create an email infrastructure. So before I even bothered making the argument for doing it, I had, I did that hard work of sending four or five weeks worth of emails with that laborious process, but then I had the data points I needed to make the projections for what this program would look like if we scaled it. And we did scale it and we ended up starting a blog that went from zero to 10 million readers a month in, I think, the first nine months we had it. But I also would encourage, I encourage all marketers to get a little more CEO-ish about the way that you treat metrics. Don't just accept the metrics that you're given, especially if you don't agree with them, push back. And if you know what the metrics are that your CEO and your CMO are talking about all the time, when you push back and you say this is what I think we should be doing, phrase the projected impact of the programs you want to do in those metrics terms, not just in the ones that you're doing. Okay, number two is to reposition content as rapid prototyping. I think a lot of C-sweets are surprised at how much it actually costs to build a real great content programming. And so one thing that I have been successful doing is repositioning content is not just for content. Content is also an incredibly powerful way of rapidly prototyping product features, especially in a digital product. You can use a customer's responsiveness to a subject matter or to a headline as sort of a divining rod to help your executive team figure out what product features they'll be responsive to. As an example, so at My Fitness Power, when we started publishing cooking and recipe content, we had this incredible responsiveness from customers and it sort of laid the groundwork for us to end up building a bunch of features into the app that supported recipe logging and supported cooking. What was fun about that was it kind of was like a full circle of feedback loop because then we as the marketing team had the ability to market new product features that we knew would be successful because we knew people wanted them because they'd already been responsive to that content. The third point here is to reposition marketing as retention. And we've talked about that a little bit, but I've just seen time and time again where marketers get a goal, hit the goal and break their necks to hit the goal, but the goal doesn't actually convert into revenue, it doesn't actually convert into retention, it doesn't actually change any of the big things that the C-suite was concerned about. So then everybody's still kind of unhappy even though you did all of that work to hit the goal. I see this happening a lot because I feel that we're not as aggressively pushing back and arguing for what the right metric should be at the time when the goals are set in the first place. So this is a lot about learning to speak up and learning to push back. It requires you to cultivate some emotional groundedness and security and voice. It requires a little bit of a commitment to live in integrity, to not be saying one thing while you're feeling another thing and doing another thing. I talk to all sorts of marketing teams and hear them being like, gosh, we got these goals, they don't make sense. They come back to each other, they come back to me as a consultant and talk about how crazy these goals are and why it won't work or why it's not gonna do it. And my question is always right, well, did you say that? Did you say that at the beginning of the year? And the answer's often no. And the answer's often no because of fear. And I actually had someone say to me recently, Tara, if I pushed back on the goals I was given on the objectives I was given, at my company, that would be a claim. And I said, I don't know what a claim is. And they said it stands for career limiting move, CLM. To which I said, if you speaking back and saying these objectives that I have will not actually drive this overarching business and I know what will or hear some ideas about what will and that's gonna limit your career at a place, you should probably not be at that place. You should probably not be at that place. So this is some about metrics and being strategic and some about just being willing to speak up. When I first came into the scene of my fitness panel my brief as a consultant was just to answer the question, hey, we've got 45 million users and no marketing team. Should we even have a marketing team? And my answer was yes, you need a marketing team but maybe not a traditional marketing team. Maybe it's not a team that's gonna be super fixated on growth and brand marketing and those things. Instead I pushed back that our metrics should be not just a growth metric, a new user growth metric, it should be a growth of engaged users metric. And that ultimately was where we went. We did some things to grow new users but that wasn't our primary focus and a lot of that was because people just didn't know and were looking for some guidance. So in the end, I think in the first 18 months I was there with our content program and the customer research that we did. We grew engagement on the app about 22% on a weekly basis and 25% on a monthly basis all out of marketing. That's totally separate and aside from any of the work that the product team or the international team or any other teams did. And that positioned our marketing team to be one of few teams among my friends that were CMOs of the time at tech companies. We didn't feel like stepchildren at all even though it was an engineering based company. People valued our input. We were called into every product feature road mapping conversation. I think that was largely because we were working, we had positioned engagement and retention as a core function of marketing, not just growth. And finally, create a team of change agents throughout your company. Make sure every function is involved. Make sure people at every level are involved and make sure they're all understanding, participating in and working against the same customer journey map. I see companies want to, companies get very excited about customer research projects and ethnographies and personas and content strategies and then nobody sees them again after they're delivered. What we're talking about here is a whole company shift to a problem first perspective. That kind of shift requires strategy. It requires resources. Tips that I would give from my experience doing this pretty successfully would be if you can do whatever you can to get people as high up on the hierarchy in your company in an actual customer interview as possible. I mean, I think actually every company that we've worked with, in my consulting firm since I've left, we've had the CEO actually come into at least one customer interview. We have people from every single kind of team. We have people from HR and people ops come to individual customer interviews because those people are gonna need to be your squad of change agents that represent the customer and their journey and that problem first shift that you're trying to make in the little sort of everyday meetings and side conversations where decisions are actually made. That is about it for me. These are all the things that I do and where you can find me. I will say that last bit on influence and creating influence in your organization, there's a whole chapter in my book that's just about the organizational piece of becoming an influencer. I am happy to email that chapter to you if you email me at terra at transformationalconsumer.com. And these are the things I do, including a 30 day writing challenge that is entirely designed to respond to the marketers in my world who were struggling to have voice and influence. It's a free experience and it changes people's lives and careers. So that's where to find me and that's it.