 this evening. I want to believe that we have more persons gathered in those two areas we've made available for persons to discuss or share our views, make a implement change and provide feedback on the proposed revised education act that will affect all of us whether we are directly involved in the education system or not. We may have children, we may have relatives, we may have friends. So we have a chance now to make suggestions, to make proposals, to give our feedback on what will be presented to us tonight. And so I want to applaud those of you who made the effort, and I'm hoping to move on more persons who will join in and contribute to what is ours. And so this opportunity is yours for persons who may not be too fluent in English. You are also encouraged to make your contribution in part of our career. I will try to translate as much as possible if I cannot. I'm sure there are persons on the call that can do so. And so I welcome you to our District 5 leg of the consultation on the revised education act. With anything, we always believe in God. And so let me invite us wherever we may be to get ourselves in a frame of reverence to our Lord, our Savior. As I pray, Father in heaven, we thank you once again. We give you praise, glory and honor for this is the day that you have made. We will continue to rejoice and be glad in it. Father, as we gather here as persons, as stakeholders with interests in what may affect us, we pray the Lord that you will intervene. You will give us wisdom, you will give us direction, you will give us the know-how. Father, to chat the best way forward for the students and those involved. And so Father, we pray the Lord that this discussion will be a healthy one. We pray the Lord that we'll all make our contribution respectfully. And Father, in the end, all things will bring glory and honor to you. So we thank you again. I pray the Lord I take full charge of tonight's discussion. And just in my prayer, thanksgiving. Amen. At this time, let me say too that when it's our turn to make our contribution, let's do so respectfully. And let's all have a healthy discussion. Let us all contribute to what is ours and what will affect us. And so at this time, let me know with any time again. So let me introduce our consultant for the night. And that is Dr. Monica Williams. So we welcome Dr. Williams to deliver on the revised Education Act at this time. So thank you and all the best. You will have your chance to share. And of course, I'll come back at the end. I will be on board to do the wrap up. So all the best. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Jerry, for the warm welcome and the devotion to start our discussion tonight. We're very pleased to be here to meet with you. And we're really looking forward to hear the questions and comments from everybody present. At this time, I'd like to pause and introduce my colleagues who are also here to help facilitate the session tonight. Mrs. Paula Cook McKinnon. Paula, if you would like to say hi. Good morning. Good morning. Good evening, everyone. It's indeed a pleasure to be with you this evening and to have what promises to be an interesting discussion about the proposed Education Act and regulations. We look very forward to your feedback and to the discussion that's going to occur this evening. Thank you very much. And Mrs. Fortuna Anthony, who is certainly no stranger to education in St. Lucia, Fortuna. If you could say a few words of greeting, please. Thank you very much, Dr. Williams. Good evening to everyone. It is indeed our pleasure that we are here and prepared to listen to your contribution to such a critical document, the Enhance Education Act. I'm looking forward to a very stimulating discussion coming from persons present. Thank you very much, Dr. Williams. Thank you, Mrs. Anthony. Next slide, please, Paula. So our schedule for this evening is as follows. The session is about an hour and a half long. So we've commenced with our welcome, devotion, and introductions. We're going to go over the purpose and the ground rules for the meeting. Then we're going to provide a brief description of the review of the Education Act that's been taking place since February of 2022, so almost two years now. We're also going to provide an overview of the core features of the draft Education Act and regulations that are being proposed. We want to hear from you. So we're keeping the presentation time as brief as possible. We're having multiple pauses for discussion, but you can stop us at any time to ask a question or make a comment. We really want to hear from you. And as we go along toward the end of the meeting, we're going to be asking you what your priorities and hopes are for the draft Education Act and regulations. What do you think is most important to address in this work and what do you hope comes out of an updated Education Act and regulations? We'd really like to hear your priorities and your hopes. At 7.25, we're going to have concluding remarks. And a thank you for Mr. Jareef, who kindly opened the meeting just now. And around 7.30, we will adjourn. So that's our schedule for this evening. Next slide, please. What is the purpose of the Town Hall meetings? And we're having them right across St. Lucia. We're having 10 different meetings. The first purpose is to describe the review and the enhancement of the Education Act, the current act, which is from 2005. So we want to provide the members of the public with information about the review that's been happening and the progress that's been made so far. We also want to discuss the main changes that are present in the proposed Education Act versus the current act of 2005. So we're going to go through the core features that have changed and give you an overview of that. We really want to listen to your priorities and hopes for the act, as I mentioned a moment ago, because as Mr. Jareef pointed out, this is a huge undertaking. The impact of the Education Act affects all sectors of St. Lucia society, even for people who are not directly involved in education, families, community members, businesses, everyone is impacted by education. We're going to record your questions and comments. So tonight's session, like all the others, is being recorded. And then we're going to analyze your questions and comments to address the topics and issues that you raise in the validation and finalization of the draft Education Act and regulations. So your contributions here tonight, along with all the others from the town hall meetings, will be analyzed and considered as the Education Act goes through another round of edits to finalize it for submission to the government for consideration. Next slide, please. So here are some meeting ground rules. Again, we want to emphasize that your questions and comments are welcomed at any time. Myself, along with Mrs. Anthony and Mrs. Cook McKinnon will be chairing the meeting this evening. We're attempting to start and end promptly out of respect for everyone's busy schedules, especially during the month of December. You may, if you like, place comments or questions in the chat box. We'll be monitoring the chat box and responding to input as we go. To speak during the meeting, please raise your hand. And if you're not familiar with the Zoom function for raising your hand, if you look at the bottom of your screen in the toolbar, you'll see an icon with a smiley face and a plus sign that's called reactions. If you click on reactions, you will see an icon come up to raise your hand. So you simply click on that and we will see your hand raised and address your question or comment. And we'll be watching for those as we go. We're asking that when we do call on you, you state your name and share your question or comment in three minutes or less so that as many people as possible have the chance to speak tonight. We're trying to make sure that anyone who wants to contribute will have enough time to do so. We appreciate and respect all questions and comments and ask that you do the same. If there's one thing that we've learned over the past two years, we've certainly learned that St. Lucians are very passionate about education and they have many different experiences and perspectives and opinions on what should and should not be in a new education act. Sometimes those opinions conflict, which is fine. That's the importance of conversation and hearing all sides of an issue. But it's important to listen carefully and respect the different viewpoints that people have to offer. Next slide please. So now we'll turn to a brief description of the review of the Education Act. In February of 2022, the St. Lucia Department of Education contracted with Mind Bloom Consulting and St. Francis Abbey University to partner with them, to partner with St. Lucia educators in the review and enhancement of the Education Act. And I want to emphasize that word partner. This has been a very collaborative project. We've worked extensively with educators across the island and with many different organizations and groups in completing the review collaboratively. The review was undertaken because the existing Education Act is from 2005 and the Department of Education wants to ensure that the Education Act meets the needs of a modern education system and today's students now and in the future, especially in the wake of the pandemic. We've all seen major changes occurring in society and in education. And it was felt that it was time to revisit the act in order to make sure that it's current. Next slide please. Thank you. So from February of 2022 up to the present time, extensive stakeholder consultations and research have been completed to give you a few examples. And these are just a few examples. There are many more. We've consulted with many different groups, including the Office of the Attorney General of St. Lucia, the National Accreditation Council, the National Principles Association, the St. Lucia Teachers Union, the OECS Commission, ministry leaders from the Department of Education. Many, many groups and individuals have been consulted. We've also conducted research and that's ongoing today. We've looked at education acts and policies from across the Caribbean and around the world. We've also looked at the issues that are emerging in education systems in the Caribbean and around the world and the best practices for addressing them. And so this research is ongoing and as we come upon new information that's pertinent, we certainly add that to the mix, whether that comes from input from the consultations or from the research that's being conducted. So based on the findings of the consultations and research, the first draft Education Act and Regulations were prepared in March of 2023. So after more than a year of consultation and study, we prepared an initial draft to collect feedback and to hear from various members of the St. Lucia Society about their thoughts on moving forward with changes to the Act. The response was tremendous. Multiple stakeholders provided feedback on this first draft. We received more than 700 suggestions and each of those suggestions were reviewed and considered and acted on to create the draft Education Act and Regulations that we are discussing here. So we're looking at a very recent draft that was just completed a couple of weeks ago and we're taking it out for public consultation right away to get even more input and opinions from members of the public in St. Lucia to ensure that we're on the right track and to ensure that from the outset, this is your Education Act. This is for the people of St. Lucia, for the students, for the society, for the government and we want to ensure we make every effort to engage St. Lucia's in this process. Next slide please. So as I mentioned a few moments ago, town hall meetings are being held across St. Lucia to provide members of the public with the opportunity to give their input on this latest draft and we're holding the meetings to provide a description of the review of the Education Act of 2005 and the progress that has been made so far. We're also conducting the town halls to make sure that members of the public have access to the latest draft, the November 2023 draft Education Act and Regulations and they are available publicly at a website and we will ensure that that website is included in the chat box this evening so that anyone can look at the draft Education Act and Regulations and we encourage you to do that because they are so impactful for the people of the country. We're also providing this opportunity for you to contribute to the validation and finalization of the draft Education Act and Regulations. Next slide please. So what are the major changes from the 2005 Act? What are some of the core features of this current draft Education Act and Regulations that are different from what's been there so far? Well, first of all, the draft Act begins with a new student-centered vision for education for St. Lucia and this is contained in what's called the long title at the beginning of the draft Education Act and the student-centered vision speaks about the importance of a modern and inclusive curriculum that meets the needs of St. Lucia students that prepares them for success in school and life and prepares them to be good citizens and contributing members of society. The student-centered vision also speaks about the whole child, not just their achievement on examinations, for example, but their learning, their development, and their physical and mental well-being. So those are some of the key focal points in this student-centered vision for education. We've also at the request of many St. Lucia's completed extensive work on the definitions and the language in the Education Act. Many persons told us that some of the definitions were outdated and no longer accurate. Other persons told us that more definitions needed to be added to the Act and so that section has been expanded significantly. We have increased the number of definitions and they're found in the interpretation section at the start of the Education Act. We also heard from many persons that the language used throughout the Act was no longer accurate. For example, there are programs that are referenced in the current Act that are no longer offered in St. Lucia and some of the terminology in various areas, including special education needs, were no longer in keeping with the language that's used today. So for all of those reasons, we did quite a bit of work on strengthening the definitions and making sure that the language is current and accurate to the extent possible. Throughout the Education Act and the regulations, there is one unifying focus on holistic education that supports student learning and well-being and development, everything from positive behavior to the National Curriculum Instruction and Assessment that upholds the different cultures and languages and peoples of St. Lucia. So really trying to provide a well-rounded education that meets all of the student's needs. We've also included in this latest draft universal access to education so that all children have access to education in St. Lucia and free tuition, which means that they have access to education without their parents being charged for that. Also that the students have protection from discrimination and what that means is they cannot be denied an education on the basis of their ethnic background, their language, their gender, their family's political affiliation, all those different prohibited grounds. So those are major steps forward that are present in the current draft of the Education Act. We've also added a new council on special needs education and inclusive education to the Act and this was in response to requests from many persons and community groups and organizations that more attention needed to be paid to the area, a special needs education, and that it was important to have a group who would advocate for and provide leadership for the provision of education that meets the needs of learners, whether they have challenges with their learning, whether they're gifted and they require enrichment, so this council will provide support in that direction. Also for the first time we've included a new national code of conduct in both the Act and the regulations and this code of conduct emphasizes positive behavior, supports for positive behavior and it also recognizes that at times there's student misbehavior and there are clearly spelled out responses to student misbehavior contained in the national code. Also there are standards for behavior and standards for appropriate dress that are described in detail in this new code. One of the things that we heard from many St. Lucians was that although various schools have school rules for behavior, they differ from one school to the next and there was a desire to have a national standard that everyone could look to and reference to support positive behavior in school communities by everybody who's involved. We've also expanded the compulsory school age. It is currently five to 15 years and in the new draft it's expanded to three to 17 years so that now it includes early childhood education for children ages three to five. Again a major step forward to have an increased emphasis on early childhood education which was another area that was identified by many St. Lucians as being one that required more attention in the Education Act. We also heard from many educators their concerns that they did not feel they had clear authority to discipline students and protect the safety and security of students and staff and school premises. We've heard many many people speak about their concerns about violence about threats to safety and security on school grounds and so in the Act it now contains a very clear line of authority for teachers and principals and vice-principals to discipline students when necessary. Also new in the Act is a provision that if there is a threat to the safety and security of students or staff that's posed by a student who perhaps has brought a weapon to school or illegal drugs to school or is threatening to harm his or herself or his or herself or others the principal or teacher they can search the student sees the weapon or the illegal drugs they can take action to protect safety and security and also in the Act it's clearly referenced that there are obligations to contact police when criminal acts have taken place on school grounds and that's spelled out as well. So we really have taken a variety of steps to try to address the need to strengthen the supports for safety and security. We've added many new types of education including alternative online and blended education especially during and after the pandemic we've seen the rise of virtual online learning blended education that's a combination of in person and online learning and we've heard repeated calls for more support for alternative education which means non-traditional pathways are provided for secondary students to successfully complete school not all students are academically inclined but they have many other skills and talents and alternative education allows them to learn about different occupations to do hands-on learning project-based learning to prepare for skilled trades and many other lines of work. So this is a need that has been identified and we've addressed that in the new Act. Also there there were many requests to define the rights duties powers and responsibilities of the persons who are involved most directly in education and we've attempted to do that we've used a consistent format and language describing the rights and duties of everyone from the minister of education and the permanent secretary and chief education officers and a chief education officer and education officers to students and parents and teachers principals vice-principals and for the first time school counselors. Their duties were not described in the current Act of 2005 and they've been added again at the request of many individuals. Education officers duties have been added for the first time as well so this is another step ahead. Next slide please so in the next two slides I'm going to give you a brief overview of the sections of the Education Act the draft Act and then we're going to have we're going to go into discussion but as I'm going along I want to repeat if you want to raise your hand if you have a question or you want to put a question in the chat box you can do so at any time and we're happy to respond. So with regard to the draft Education Act the preliminary section at the start includes the long title that contains the student-centered vision of education the interpretation section that contains the definitions and also there is the purpose of the Education Act which is spelled out in this section. Part one deals with the administration of the education system and this speaks to the duties and powers of senior leaders at the Department of Education including the minister, permanent secretary, chief education officer, education officers and also the role of education advisory boards. Part two describes the different stages of education and types of schools in St. Lucia. So the stages of public school for example include early childhood primary secondary and tertiary the different types of education as I mentioned a few moments ago include in person online alternative special needs education many different types. We've also described the process for registration and operation of schools and we had many many requests to provide more structure and clarity around homeschooling and we have done that. It has a great deal more detail has been added into the draft act around the requirements for homeschooling inspections for homeschooling and the programming approval process for homeschooling through the office of the chief education officer. As I mentioned earlier we've also increased the amount of attention paid to special needs education and inclusive education in this section of the act. Part three describes the rights and responsibilities of students and parents and I've discussed some of the rights before including universal access to education and free tuition. Also we've outlined student accountability so students have rights but they also have responsibilities including following the direction of their teachers and school administrators and also attending school regularly and punctually. Similarly parents have rights and duties under the draft act. One of the duties of the parents is to communicate and collaborate with teachers and school administrators in the education of their child. One of their rights is to be informed about their child's progress and participate in their child's education. Part four deals with admission attendance and records so as I mentioned a moment ago the compulsory school age has been expanded to three to 17 years and we describe the processes for students being admitted to school the zoning of schools the process when a student transfer is requested and we've also addressed student attendance which was another area of concern that many people identified in St. Lucia and across the Caribbean and around the world. Student attendance has fallen off significantly since the pandemic and every education system is trying to come up with strategies to get student attendance back on track. We've updated the roles and responsibilities of student attendance officers to provide them with the authority to address truancy issues student absenteeism and we've also described in this section school records to be kept on all students. Part five is the national curriculum instruction and assessment of students and as I mentioned a few moments ago looking for a modern inclusive national curriculum that upholds the different cultures and histories and languages of St Lucia that is tailored to St Lucia it is a curriculum for St Lucia specifically designed in tailored for the students in in your country. We described the core subjects the key stages of assessment and also in this section we talk about balanced student assessment so a recognition that while examinations and tests certainly have a place in education it's also important to use other forms of assessment on a regular basis including diagnostic assessment to determine where students are in their learning and formative assessment to constantly monitor their progress in the classroom as they're learning the different subjects. Next slide please. Part six deals with the management of schools including boards of management the t-vet council also students councils and parent teacher community associations this is another major change we had the suggestion and we certainly acted on it that given the important role of communities in schools we expanded from parent teacher to parent teacher community associations to support and encourage that partnership between members of the community and their local schools. Part seven is the national code of conduct school rules and discipline and as I mentioned a few moments ago we've included in the national code of conduct disciplinary responses to student misbehavior we've outlined the conditions for suspensions and in this part we've added in school suspensions as well as out of school suspensions the process for search and seizure and when a disciplinary decision is made that parents and students have a right to appeal a disciplinary response so there is a right to appeal described there as well. Part eight deals with the rights and duties of educators and this includes the rights and duties of principals vice principals teachers and school counselors they are spelled out in the draft act. Part nine addresses the St. Lucia Island Scholarship including the qualification and examination for the scholarship the conditions under which the scholarship may be forfeited the bonding of scholarship recipients and the awarding the awarding of grants and bursaries to students aside from that island scholarship. Part ten deals with appeals and the procedures of the education appeals tribunal and the regulations for appeals as well and part eleven is miscellaneous there are a whole bunch of different topics addressed there everything from contagious diseases to closure of schools like loitering on school premises etc so a variety of topics are clustered in the miscellaneous section next slide please so we want to pause here that's the that's the bulk of the presentation and we want to spend the time listening to you so we encourage you to put a question or comment in the chat box or raise your hand and we look forward to the discussion of your perspectives on the draft education act and regulations and any questions you may have does anyone have a question or a comment yes uh smc board i can see go ahead please please go ahead with your question smc board apologies i was on i was muted my apologies my routines to the education bill on 21st november section 45 um i just was just seeking clarification of section 45 part 3 b uh it states that uh in an agreement under this section a private school agrees in writing for the premises to be jointly owned by the government and the proprietor what what does this mean exactly monica i think i can answer this one because uh i believe you've you've actually had a conversation with the equip office about this so we did a little bit of research and discussion before the meeting actually 45 3 talks about a private school agrees in writing to receive public funds for certain things like the maintenance of a school the provision of school equipment so that is one way that an agreement can be reached for an assisted school to exist c is a second way because you you can see at the end of three five it says or so in the case of a an assisted school that is jointly owned by the government and the proprietor um that would be a different type of agreement so there's an agreement that could be under a an agreement that could be under b and c and then an agreement under um uh at e and it comes about because in some cases um there are physical facilities that are owned by the government but actually are run as assisted schools by the proprietor and so this 3b actually facilitates that type of arrangement but does not prohibit a building being owned by a private group and entering into an agreement with the government for the operation of an assisted school okay so we understand i think 3a is the state of school um is that your that's your understanding also um not it i don't believe in all cases or well it's not all cases not all cases but in the case of us an assisted school uh i think 3a would be would be the state of school well it would be the case for many schools um actually we don't obviously we haven't polled all schools but we do know that under under the act of 2005 um it was it was uh possible for a facility to be owned by the government and the proprietor together as is discussed in b and then and then the management to be shared by the minister and the proprietor but i think based on our our knowledge the majority of the cases fall under a and i think you are correct i was just i was just seeking clarification on that of course understood it it uh it could be interpreted that it is the expectation that all premises would be jointly owned by the government and the proprietor but that is not the case and that's why that or is so critical thank you very much you're welcome for the question and there's a question i think also a question in the chat for a comment i'm sorry i'm just there we go plausible is k3 in sebu is that the question you are referencing yes exactly thank you mr santhony so the question is how plausible is k kindergarten through grade three in in st luccia um that's an interesting question i'm wondering if the if the person who posted it might want to expand on that yes i would thank you yes um my reason for asking that question uh we do not have many um government workers in st luccia and i know that um early childhood education costs a lot so uh does the government have some i don't know if you'll be able to answer that but i am not sure that we are ready well depending on how soon the act will be enacted i'm not sure that we are ready for k3 compulsory education i think the children will be disadvantaged some of some students will have uh those who can afford in a higher socioeconomic bracket will have proper k3 education and those who are not able to so then um the teachers at the k level will be at a disadvantage that's my reason for asking that question um excellent question uh dr lambs did you oh do you go ahead dr lambs thank you thank you for the question it is an excellent question and it's it's a topic we've had some discussion about in terms of the timeline and the readiness uh for the early childhood education and also the connection with uh kindergarten so as we understand it some schools already offer pre-kindergarten programs so some are already underway and this addition to the act provides the leeway to offer pre-kindergarten for four-year-olds and also to expand out to offer um early childhood education for three-year-olds enough um there is a provision in the act that the government can take some time uh to establish the early childhood education services there is leeway in the act because you're making a really important point um it would be very challenging to do all at once so there is some time um that can be set aside that can be taken for the government to fully implement this aspect of the draft act um so that that question has come up before because it is a valid point but to not have it there would preclude it happening like it wouldn't give support for it happening so um and because the act um right now we're we're reviewing an act from 2005 so if you think that uh an act might have a life of about 20 years we want to be able to think about what is in the best interest of the children of st lusia moving forward and and add pieces to the act that are what we might consider aspirational now but in five or six years may actually be exactly uh what is envisioned and that's why um these sorts of things have been included in the act but that the the uh but it provides the opportunity for the minister to make advances um as resources are available and that's a it's a really important point overall we've we've tried to respond to the request of st lusia and also to build extra capacity into this draft so as um mrs cook mckinnon pointed out um there is the opportunity there in the capacity to expand into early childhood education something we haven't mentioned that we also added is that we heard from different persons that sometimes students are staying in secondary school um 17 18 19 years old because they require more time to complete secondary school or because they are students with special needs so in this draft we've also added a provision at the other end for early childhood education for extended school attendance by youth who are aged uh 18 to 20 years so we've tried to build capacity right across the age span and um to give the government the leeway that when they want to act whether it's alternative education for secondary school students or early childhood education they have the backing of the education act to do that thank you thank you Dr Williams there is also another question in the um in the uh chat it said can you please qualify section 84 of the education bill um and section 84 um uh refers to the wishes of parent a parent and it says an educational leader shall respond in writing to a written request from a parent with respect to the wishes of the parent for the education of a student um did you have a comment on that Dr Williams well that really speaks to um that goes back to the rights of parents rights and responsibilities of parents um and in the current act it states that the wishes of parents shall be considered and uh so now it's gone uh step further that there will be a response in writing when a parent um makes a request about the education of their child so for example if they made a request to the ministry to a leader in the ministry or to a principal that they would get a response in writing um with regard to what they're asking for it doesn't necessarily mean that what they're asking for is going to be granted or that their wishes can be fulfilled but that they will be considered and responded to and does that help with your question and Dr Williams may I say that um the in writing is very significant um here because in the past parents would go in and they would have a conversation but there would be no follow-up in writing so I think that in writing is very very important um in that section now yes this is the need to step ahead for sure please note however that it does say that the educational leader responds in writing to a written request from a parent because we also know that um quite often there are many requests that come verbally or just informally so this this um is is a written with a written written request with a written response I come in here again Dr Williams um it is um a matter of effective communication most times parents might come in or will come in and it is now the duty of the principal as the second step to say well um I have heard you I have listened could you kindly put it in writing so that I can then take action on it and then the parent will respond to I have received your letter of requests for your wish and this is the kind of flexibility or the kind of responsibility and accountability that the act is now given that let us do it and let us do it right does that make sense to you miss yes and and I hope that adds clarification for the person who posed the question because it is a really good question so there's another question in the chat uh additionally will provisions be made in all communities so that all three-year-olds can attend public school thank you for the question and I'm just looking at the act with regard to that question and I want to go back to something that was raised earlier um in section 29 the stages of public education early early childhood is included and so the attention is there that capacity will be built in early childhood um so the the minister in section 32 can authorize the alteration of existing types of education or the cessation or authorize the provision of new types of education so the minister really has the discretion as to when and how the early childhood education is expanded out to include more students and that is stated in the act so I just wanted to provide that clarification I don't know mrs cook the candidate or mrs anthony if you wanted to add further to that but the only thing I would say is that uh in conjunction thank you for the specific reference to the the um section uh sections but um so this as we talked about earlier um this gives the minister the opportunity to expand as the resources of the country enable the minister to do so so once again we envision over time yes there will be provisions for all three-year-olds but it it does depend on the ability of the country to make that possible and one of the and we've heard many questions about early childhood education which is great to hear because it is such an important aspect of education and one of the things that we're looking at doing um in terms of the national curriculum is um adding a section on early childhood education to the national curriculum again to provide support for movement toward providing um more early childhood education for the children of st lucha and I see mary you have your hand up please go ahead yes good evening good evening um is there any um provision in the act that speaks to the government providing adequate support for um persons for special education and for inclusion inclusive education to be provided efficiently um at the the uh in the general ed schools so um starting with section 53 thank you for the questions an excellent question a starting with section 53 in the draft education act there is a section on special needs education and inclusive education so they are addressed in the act I'd also point out that one of the rights of students all students including students with special needs is a right to an appropriate education so that speaks to what you're talking about I think with regard to providing um appropriate programming and services for students including those who have special needs we do um we talk about in this section of the act and also in the regulations about accommodations individual education plans they are specifically referenced in the act they are often provided for children with special needs and as I mentioned too we there is a new council on special needs education and inclusive education that is has been added to the act to provide leadership and advocacy for strengthening the education programs and services for students with special needs and to promote inclusive education another key feature we haven't referenced so far is that we're recommending that the education of children with special needs be provided in the least restrictive environment so that they can be educated in primary and secondary schools alongside their peers whenever possible we recognize there will be some instances where students needs are such that they require the programs and services and a special education school but we are recommending in this draft that to the extent possible uh the children with special needs be educated alongside their age peers in primary and secondary schools we've also updated completely the categories of special needs and the language we've expanded the categories we've specifically referenced mental health challenges for example autism spectrum disorder learning disabilities and we've also included giftedness because students who are gifted require supports as well and enrichment is an important a form of accommodation that some students require and that's now acknowledged in the draft act also with regard to your question on inclusive education from the very beginning of the act with the student-centered vision we're talking about inclusive education and inclusive national curriculum that accommodates diverse students we're emphasizing uh the move toward inclusive teaching practices and assessment practices throughout the act as well and so inclusion is something that is emphasized throughout the many different parts of the draft act and the regulations as well another excellent question thank you we have another question okay um clarification on searching of students legally only police have the power and authority to search so that is a topic that we examine very closely and we should point out that another key member of our team is miss kim saint rose who is a former attorney general of st lucia and she is the lawyer on our team who has been looking at legal issues and doing the drafting of the education act and the regulations um with regard to search and seizure one of the things that was looked at was the constitution of st lucia and it's important to note that the education act crosses over or intersects with many other laws in the country for example when we talk about the prohibition against selling alcohol on school premises um we had to make sure that what was in the education act is in alignment with the liquor control act when we think about um students being absent from school or suspected abuse or neglect we have to think about social services or community services legislation we also looked at the alignment of the act with the constitution and that included with uh under the constitution how some of the different senior leaders are appointed including the permanent secretary and the chief education officer and to your point we looked at the provisions for um search in the constitution and in the drafting of the act in our discussions with mrs miss kim saint rose care was taken that a balance was struck between protecting the rights of students as they're protected under the constitution but also protecting the rights of students and staff to be safe and secure at school so there was a lot of discussion and that's how the search and seizure provision was developed and added to the act um i'm just going to go specifically to that provision so that we can specifically reference what is said and it says here that the search and seizure under section 170 um that a principal a vice principal or teacher may search the property of a student under his or her control on reasonable suspicion that the student has an item that's prohibited for example drugs or illegal weapons or part b in the case of that student posing an imminent threat to the safety of the student or another person on school premises um so that really there has to be an imminent threat it's not it's not um taken lightly there are conditions around the search and seizure and they are spelled out in section 170 of the act and i encourage you to take a look there these are excellent questions and we have another one in the chat can clarification be given on point 175 c about educators rights to access continuing education as may be prescribed does that mean that the educator is limited to only pursue courses prescribed by the ministry of education access to continuing education as may be prescribed um i can say uh with with with absolute clarity that that was not the intent when that was being discussed we were trying to put teacher access or educator access to continuing education as a right um and so we we would not see it as being solely restricted to what is prescribed because many educators like to take courses through universities or attend conferences um on their own initiative uh so uh we we did envision a broader scope for that and thank you for raising the point i can see how that could be interpreted narrowly and we will certainly revisit that as we're looking at uh the next round of of adjustments to the draft thank you for raising that and i think there's another comment here if a child is in special education at public school what provision is in the act whether or not this child moves up with his peers or is kept back thank you for the question again we're recommending that they be they be educated with their peers to the extent possible there's nothing specific in the act about the promotion or retention of students to special needs actually there's nothing specific in the act about the retention or promotion of any students that's a decision that's that's left to the educators as to how the students are progressing through school and one more question that was just a thank you okay is there uh yes go ahead any other questions or comments on the draft act uh mr philbert go ahead please or miss philbert go ahead please good night all thank you very much i have posted uh well i have i haven't issued my voice i avoided speaking and i posted one or two questions in the chat but i want to go back to the question 170 about search i heard your response but i still have a discomfort or maybe some kind of cognitive dissonance in understanding the power of the authority i heard what you said and i heard what you said about safety but as far as i know unless there are going to be some changes where persons educators only the police can actually search and i understand everything about safety so i think for this section 170 to work i think there must be some set of guidelines to go with explain how this search and seizure is going to work out i supposed to be implemented because i know in the past we have asked the students to empty out your pockets or empty out your bags but we cannot search them or pat them down so the way this is written there i interpret what just as how a police would search and even for the police to search they need a warrant so i think to avoid any further complication we need to have specific guidelines as to how 170 is going to work out so that we as educators can be so guided and we are going to implement that the way it is it ought to be implemented without compromising the safety of anybody including the educator and the other persons and compound that's one my other comment that i have not raised is that i want to applaud the work for inclusion of the rights responsibilities of the education officers because for far too long we are left to interpret as to what we think that the duties and responsibilities were and now that is included i think it is it is a step in the right direction and there will be further clarity and this section will help us to work better with all our eos to ensure that they also function today sorry to the maximum i was looking for a section i read earlier on my third point to do with the code of conduct i think it is called and that section has has something on the dress code but i cannot i cannot find it and i cannot remember it clearly but i think from what i vaguely remember there was some need for clarity in terms of um that aspect of the of the code of conduct and my final point i want to go back to the three year olds and though um your response was the minister will decide which of course is true but let's assume the arc comes into into effects say february first for argument sake and then it's it it's spelled out that all three year olds shall because i think i saw the word shall um attend public school shall attend school and there isn't any provision in a particular community maybe especially a disadvantaged community and the parent is unable to pay for private schooling for his or her three year old would that parent in that situation come eternal fence so i think these are my excuse me these are my key questions for now thank you so very much thank you very much and i've been jotting down notes so i hope i don't miss any of your questions um they're excellent points thank you for raising them uh when you're talking about guidelines and search and seizure that raises a really important point that we haven't discussed yet this evening and that's the fact that many of the issues that are raised in the education act and the regulations um could certainly benefit from supporting policies search and seizure being an example and i know in the area of special education there's currently work under way in st lucha uh drafting a special education and inclusive education policy so the act the education act provides the legal framework uh for the education system and how it operates but policies are really important as well and certainly it would be the case that if these new provisions in the education act and the regulations are adopted there would be the need for supporting policies in in several areas your question though sorry oh go ahead i the the but the um the regulations and code of conduct though do add more detail to this am i not correct not on search and seizure but i was just going to speak to the national code thank you because yeah um on with regard to your question on the national code there is greater detail found in the regulations including schedule eight on the national code of conduct and you mentioned the standard for appropriate dress so we we had a tremendous amount of discussion and frankly debate from different persons different opinions as to how the issue of school dress should be handled um and so after looking at different options and a lot of different opinions put forward we decided to go with a positive approach of describing appropriate school dress and the benefits of it giving examples of appropriate dress for school staff and also um describing inappropriate school dress uh examples of that uh for for persons in the school and using that as the frame for addressing issues around school uniforms uh the dress of staff etc this again i cannot overemphasize this was a very thorny issue and a lot of very different opinions about how it should be handled so we took that positive route and it is spelled out in the national code of conduct in the regulations um with regard to the three-year-olds um are the parents committing an offense um it's when we talk about uh school attendance uh we there are duties of parents to make sure that their child attends school but again as we've been speaking to this evening we recognize it's going to take time for capacity to be built for early childhood education and so there is that provision in the act uh for the minister to have leeway um so there it's not um it's not the intent that as as this act goes forward i want to emphasize as well on that point that we will prepare another draft and a report to go to the government and it's up to the government whether they decide to proceed with an updated education act or not if that happens and and the Education Act is updated and enacted again because there is a provision that the minister can take some time and make decisions about when these um forms of education are rolled out and also there's a provision in the act about the availability of resources it's it's not the intent that immediately on day one um people would be guilty of an offense as you framed it um it's the intent that there has to be a look at the resources available and the time required but the capacity is there to expand early childhood education i don't know paul or fortune if you wanted to add anything to that the only thing i will add to that um thank you dr williams is that i think the government is painfully aware of that and they have begun creating much needed um access to early childhood education as miss philbert will be aware um schools whether low enrollment um you you have three k's being developed and the government is also building with the support from cdb a number of government-owned preschools where the fees some children some families there'll be um specific criteria some families might not have to pay so that the children will access um early childhood education so i think um the act is just moving ahead because it has to be futuristic and things will happen when it comes to that thank you thank you very much this has been canon did you want to add anything further no i think that's great thank you um there was a question in the chat about the um the code of the draft code of conduct where you can access it and uh miss immanuel just posted the link uh to this the site where both the uh proposed the draft i shall say draft um bill and the draft um uh regulations uh are available to you so that you can can have a good look at it and i see makut secondary if i'm mispronouncing that i apologize but please go ahead all right um good evening everyone good evening madam panika william i guess that's all i see on him as um i'm jade roses i'm at microt secondary center right now all right um i would have read about this meeting and heard a few things about it so i have a number of questions i don't know if they could be accommodated i would like them to be accommodated because that's something that i'm very concerned with what's happening right now figuring that this is the whole reason for having such a meeting okay um first of all with us having this meeting now um is it actually to discuss a draft that has been put forward by the ministry that's one of my first questions and the question is not finished yet or is it something that was proposed by a group of people and then brought forward to us as what should be done to wish or what will be done with students and teachers in the upcoming year that's my first question may i respond to that one right right now so i by all means please pose all your questions we encourage that and we will respond um as i put as i pointed out earlier on um the department of education in st lusia contracted with mind bloom consulting and same friends as every university to partner with the educators in st lusia to work with the ministry to work with the citizens of st lusia in the development of um enhancements proposed enhancements to the education act and regulations so the the ministry contracted to have it developed we've worked in partnership with them and this is where the draft has come from and also as i as i mentioned earlier as well sir based on extensive consultations with st lusians and also ongoing responses to the input of st lusians about what they want in their act this is the st lusia education act for st lusians and we're really making every effort we can to make sure that the work that's being done reflects their wishes reflects their requests addresses their concerns and that's the process that's been followed and and just to just to add to that it is not really something for next i mean obviously it's going to go through an approval process um what we are doing right now is conducting numerous town hall meetings so that people can look at a draft and consider what adjustments would be appropriate we this is actually the second draft that we have done and as dr williams mentioned at the opening we received over 700 comments on what could be done to the first draft that we that we developed and in response to that extensive extensive changes were made and what you're seeing is the result of the changes that were made after the last consultation it does go through an approval process and and when the when parliament actually determines that it is suitable for approval that is when it goes into effect and obviously it is entirely up to the leaders of st lusia when that occurs okay um you said that it is up well you you've said a number of things both you that would be miss paula cook makinan and miss monica william so since y'all are the calls consultants i'm throwing my questions at you um so first of all you said that it's entirely up to the leaders to make that decision so on the timing on the timing on the timing as to when the decision would be finalized that's what i said yes all right so the actual decision with you having mentioned that you got 700 comments that's 700 comments would be 700 out of a much larger number all right so that is like a very small fraction of those who are actually going to be affected by such an act right but those were the persons who determined that they wanted to respond to the draft i mean we we can't we can't make people respond so we we take this we take the responses that we get in the representations that we receive okay and that is what i am concerned with i am very concerned with this right because if the government is going to make a responsible decision the decision would have to go through numerous schools so that the ideas and so that the heart of the people could actually be expressed and not just those who all right um i happen to be here so i make a comment rather be that it could be strategic so that you get majority representation maybe not 100 percent because usually that's impossible but you could be strategic in getting majority representation so that the heart of the people are represented and not just because the consultation was carried out and the effort was made by the consultation and they brought back because like a thousand people in St Lucia responded um so that's what we found so that is what we are presenting having a thousand presented the idea um i think with such a thing which is so sensitive law is very sensitive right and when this thing goes into action it can move a landslide in the positive direction or in the negative direction so i think that whoever is going to the stakeholders and whoever was contracted to do whatever should do everything in their power to get the represented ideas and heart of the people so that the decision can actually represent St Lucia and not just we did our job the rest is left up to you so because you guys with all due respect with all due respect um that's exactly what we're trying to do right now so these town hall meetings have been widely widely publicized and the um and those who have organized it in St Lucia have actually gone to great lengths to make it possible for people who do not have electronic access to attend in in centers throughout uh throughout St Lucia um so they've opened up facilities so that persons can go and hear and talk and we are having additional discussions with educators moving beyond this so i i do say sir that we are trying very hard to get as much input as we can from throughout St Lucia to do exactly what you wish to have happen okay i would like to disagree with you um i you may want to say that it's my opinion all right but i would not say that the efforts for example the electronic meeting i think it's very ineffective the electronic meeting is ineffective because and the timing that we are having this meeting and and that is what i meant and i i wanted to open the kind of worms so that the reality is expressed because a lot of times i think and based on talking from what i have seen in my few years that this is said but this is not what is actually done so the consultancy actually takes place as that is happening right now because that is part of the consultancy process right so it's actually taking place but usually when it takes place you don't have proper representation meaning for example this draft possibly can come off by the end of december january i'm just suggesting and then this meeting is taking place in december this would be the first meeting with what is possible the populace right what we might can i come in a minute um dr dr williams can i i am hearing i'm the gentleman but i think the gentleman probably has missed out on a number of things on a number of things we are not just consulting today general population hold on a minute please sir hold on a minute the um when the consultancy was advertised and awarded we went through a process okay groups and groups and groups from school children to parents to special need parents will come in and speaking um and you know we're engaged we heard them and then they had a free will they were writing in and sending and sending and sending their thoughts in writing we took the time to filter we met with parents we met with students we met with um NGOs we met with business places we met with um teachers we met with principals we met with um you know whoever formed a significant part of the population of st lusia i remember there was a gentleman i think he must have been one of the few that came to a meeting and spoke at length about his child and special education we listened so it is not a thing that is just we are not just consulting we have heard we have taken time we have filtered we have written one draft we have sent it in the ministry of education and the team looked at it we have come back and what we are doing now is coming right back to the same groups of persons who some persons were there some persons were not there and we have taken through the ministry of education to publicize it's on the radio it's it's on the television you know we have made the provisions through um the ministry the equip section we know not everybody has um internet etc etc so centers have been set up and we invite everybody we were not selected everybody come and talk come and hear and share your thoughts so this is not a one-shot thing and the consultants we are not just putting our thoughts on people we have done research about what is happening in the region for education what is happening internationally and we want the best so when we say we are hearing from people again we are looking to produce a document which puts the education system of Saint Lucia in the forefront and it is futuristic we have for the first time you will if you read if you download because the documents were put there there is no secret to to the education the draft education bill that we have there's not an actors yet it is a bill we we put it there anybody could download it and read it and for the first Saint Lucia will have regulations to guide you heard Dr. William said even if there are regulations there are some things that will require policy if you are to action it because it is the implementation of things you said it you said it yourself things might be said and things might be written but we are saying we are asking you what are your thoughts so we are consulting and we want you to validate what was said we made changes and we are asking you again to validate is that what you think is needed in the education act so please remember we didn't come yesterday and asking you to make a decision today it didn't work like that thank you very much okay miss I would like to respond to you all right what what I want to say is that um this is the first that has come across to the schools and that is why I'm expressing a concern this is the first time that schools have been engaged this is the first time that schools have been engaged like this at least electronically although I'm in disagreement to the electronic group um to the electronic meeting I'm thinking that what we should have done what should have happened is that we should have been engaged possibly through our union and so on because and it's I am saying I am concerned because of the things that I see of possible changes in the acts or in the rights of teachers if I could put it that way maybe my legal jargon is not precise and because as I said a major thing it's a concern both on the changes that may be coming for students as well as the changes that are coming for teachers for example let me just highlight a very glaring one about five being subtracted from the 11 that were previously there and um how could that how could such a suggestion be made and we were not previously told of it and it's only now that we were told that the meeting is going to take place and then we were made aware of that change if that happened um a number of years ago or a number of months ago this is the first that we are hearing of it so that's wonderful that's wonderful that you're hearing about it because there's time to change it we want your input so if you feel that there I I do know why some things have been removed because they're a right for everyone not just for educators so I there are explanations but we are very open very open to suggesting that things be changed in a very positive way to ensure that everyone feels that the act reflects their vision for education in st lucha so we're grateful to you for coming this evening and if there are specific things within the act that you take issue with we are here to hear them and to respond to them well well what I'm what this is what I'm saying I there are a number of them and my colleagues have expressed them I am expressing them as well there are a number of them and um because I am ignorant as to when the decisions that are going to make from this meeting coming out of this meeting I am concerned um so is a timeline going to be given to us so that negotiations can actually happen because the negotiations actually have to happen with the people of the country and not excuse me sir um I um I let me ask you a specific question are you a teacher yes I am madame okay now the teachers union yes I think the teachers union we gave an extensive period of time to the teachers union to to to meet with us to discuss with us um I think um what we are recognizing is that um the teachers union it has not um probably covered or everybody I remember I came to the conference I do not know if you are at the conference and um Mr. Howell wanted specifically to have some clarity on the code um under regulations we are given another um opportunity because we have heard from the first four um meetings district meetings that we have had that some principals want some more time to ask some questions so the ministry of education has asked and um the team we have consented because we understand that this act is about teachers children and everybody in St. Lucia who has an interest in education whether you have a child or not so on Friday there'll be a meeting with um principals all principals should be there but um as you know we cannot force anybody to attend a meeting yes you would have liked a virtual meeting but unfortunately two of the consultants are based in Canada um and then we are going to meet um through um equip asking again and the team consenting that we will meet with all teachers who wish to ask questions who wish to have clarity will be meeting with them again Friday the 8th at 3 p.m so I was 130 130 130 I'm sorry 230 thanks for changing today the request came in today but I believe now we have settled on 230 on Friday 230 on Friday so I would say to you if you have if you have not had a chance to download the draft bill under regulations please do so and take a little time go through it and um probably come on Friday or we are very open to receiving all your written um queries because um as um Dr um William said we would wish other persons present to have an opportunity to ask the question so you can put yours in writing um send it um to um equip um I think it's um to Edith and Edith sends it right across to Dr McKenon um and we just act on it you know so if you don't mind I know you said you have a lot of questions if you could um if this is acceptable to you go through them writes as many um questions and we will address it and join us again on Friday we are using the same link if you don't mind yes we said Friday the 5th madam 8th so Friday the 8th Friday the 8th all right yes so you can join us on Friday the 8th and even if you join us on Friday and you have more questions for clarity you could feel free to just share with us so that because we want the best yes I remember remember when a a bill becomes an act you do not change an act every year or every two years that's what I know since 2005 that we had a review we had no regulations okay now we have come so we are reviewing so um we appreciate um your concerns but um at this point in time if you don't mind I do not know whether you'll send in your questions whether you'll join us on Friday but um if you don't mind um what would you like to do the truth is I do mind I do mind because like I said this is very sensitive and and I there's a lot that I want and so there's a lot of engagement that I want because I think that is what has to happen for something proper to come through and not only on my part but all the others who are supposed to be participating in this discussion like many others which are supposed to happen before things are presented and then enacted so we understand that and we definitely agree that I understand that that that we are working with within a limited time so that is about the only reason I will give in and say I'm going to stop here but at the same time I want to suggest more of that happening because this is my first opportunity I can say fair opportunity to have a discussion because I was never given that opportunity perceived from a school standpoint um and no one no one no excuse me I just have a question no one has given you the opportunity you were not aware until this week that the Education Act was being reviewed with the people that are actually going to help make the decisions like for example the consultants and whoever contracted them and I'm thinking that this is who we are interacting with right now that's what I mean so you were so you were never approached by any other organization to have yes the teachers at my school for example who represent me at the in the at the union and told me of it about that my principal made mention of it so I was engaged like this but that's about it when when you are engaged like this that's about as much as you you could just express your idea but not necessarily express the idea to know that it would actually be taken seriously so that it can have some impact on the decisions that actually are going to be made if I could I just I just have to I just want to make a couple of points uh listening to the conversation going back and forth first of all sir very respectfully you said whoever contracted with the consultants and we've made it explicitly clear it was the department of education in st lucha that contracted with saint of x university and with mind bloom consulting to review the education act it wasn't whoever it was the department of education and we're working in partnership with them the second point I would raise with regard to engagement is that again as we've clearly communicated tonight we have been engaged in consultations with st luchens since february 2022 and as mrs anthony so articulately described it we have engaged with multiple groups parents students teachers advocacy groups with the office of the attorney general with the st lucha teachers union and the national principles association and what you're seeing here tonight is not a last minute attempt to say that we consult it if that's the implication what you see here tonight is a result of two years of consultation and research and discussion with st luchens and taking their input very seriously and giving it every consideration and respect in developing the most recent draft that we are discussing in the town hall meetings this is not just beginning to consult this is ongoing consultation and the input of st luchens has been collected analyzed themes have been identified and we've been providing ongoing updates there's been open and clear communication we produced an interim report to inform the department of the work that has been done to date we've kept a record of the input that we received from all these various sources and the actions that have been taken we have shared that information and i would point out that we have been very responsive to various groups for example one is of the suggestions from the st lucha teachers union was that they very much were in support of having regulations that some regulations had been drafted back i believe in the late 1990s and they thought they would be a good starting ground for developing regulations and that is exactly what we have done so it's not the case that this is coming out of the blue or that people have not been given an opportunity to speak or that what they've spoken has not been heard it's an ongoing consultative collaborative process and we are making every effort and i also want to state explicitly we are acting in good faith we are as mrs anthony pointed out attempting to provide the very best product we can to recommend the enhancements to the education act that are grounded in the input of st lucians and their desires for their education system and also grounded in contemporary research for best practices so this is not a last minute thing this has been building for almost two years now to bring us to the point that we're at tonight and we are here asking for questions and comments as a continuation of that consultation process that's been ongoing over the two-year period thank you so i think uh i think actually we should probably move on given the lateness of the hour i know that there are several messages in the chat box so mrs anthony are you okay if we move on i can i just answer to just assure um teacher that the time frame he was asking for a time frame i am sure we explained there's a process and the final decisions do not lie with us the consultants the government of st lucia the minister of education when he receives the draft final draft the attorney general has to be involved then it goes to the process if there are needs for changes etc etc that will be done so it is not the consultants that will say to the government of st lucia or give them a time frame thank you thank you so there there is a question in the the chat um that um i apologize in advance if this question was asked before i noticed that there are only five rights of an educator compared to the 11 from the previous um oops uh previous act my um question is why were the others removed especially the one uh that says that every teacher has a right to be treated in a fair and reasonable manner um uh dr williams did you want to respond to that yes thank you very much for the question and this question has come up previously in town hall meetings it's something that we've noted um we we did attempt to consolidate the rights for all educators including school counselors vice principals principals and teachers before they were they you know we've had discussion about having them separately and we tried to bring them together but we certainly recognize there are concerns from teachers about the reduction in the number of rights and we're looking at that and we're very appreciative of having people flag that as an issue so it's something that we're looking at and thank you again for raising it um and there's also a question about what comes next after this consultation will a working document be made available to i'm sorry it's just jumping around on me uh made available to include the changes um what i can say um is that um the education act and any bill that goes before parliament based on my understanding it's a public document so this this whole process is a public process and and um while we are the consultants and we don't make the decisions we make recommendations it would be our understanding that anything that advances would be obviously a very public part of a public process this is your education act and so you would definitely have a chance before it is it becomes an act while it's still a bill to have input and then of course your representatives in parliament and your representatives in cabinet would also have an opportunity to have input and they're your elected officials so um we we uh we believe that there is um still opportunity and that you can be as as involved as you would um likely be um that um that you could be as involved as you would like to be in the process moving forward um and so and oh go ahead Monica sure yeah yes and we do have a slide here in answer to these questions about what happens next we do have a slide later on just a few slides ahead that says next steps that describes what's going to happen so we will go over that then too and there is also a comment in the the um okay so um this this person says the teachers who were present at the education conference of the st lucha teachers union in october we're hearing this for the very first time i'm assuming that means in october and mrs anthony kept insisting that had invitations had been set that sent out for consulting with teachers unfortunately um and i'm sorry it just jumped on me i will go back um fortunately uh that never reached the teachers because no one at the conference was aware of those previously previous consultations not sure who dropped not sure who dropped the ball but this is what happened well we are here where we are now and if if a ball was dropped somewhere before um i think every effort is being made to involve everyone um including teachers and um and obviously the dialogue from this evening in short i hope you will see from the dialogue this evening that we are encouraging and receptive to input and are looking forward to the um ongoing discussion that we will have in the upcoming sessions may i may i sure this is the same this is the same gentleman uh yes what's your name please jade roses okay thank you that's my name yes um and i'm thankful to the the participant who put that comment in and that is why the concern it is just like a piece of evidence as to why this i'm touchy feely about it okay for reasons and that is one of the reasons um when you are being told because as a teacher at a school if this is something that has been happening for the past two years we would have received documentation on stuff that was previously done and that is why i was insisting that this is the first time not because it's the first time that i heard of it but when you are engaged so that the engagement becomes useful that is what i actually call engagement not having heard it from the mouth of a colleague of mine hey do you know such and such is about to happen do you know that the government of course we know that this generally happens where information is just transferred from one person to another by word of mouth but that information has no way to say in terms of decision making so i heard of it but this is actually the first effort that i recognize as a teacher has been done to help in the decision making and i don't think enough was done in the two years that this thing has been going on to inform sufficient people because to me like i said it's my opinion and with reason that it seems as if we have been engaged for just about two months of those two years and it's actually less than two months so um i can assure you that we have talked with teachers long before the last two months i know that from our records i'm sorry that perhaps you were interested and you weren't aware and we're trying to rectify that now there's another question there was a question also about and i think dr williams when you responded to the the question about the reduction in the the rights there was a question also about the right to be compensated for injury on the job did you wish to respond to that dr williams um i just add further that we're we're reviewing we're revisiting the rights to you based on the input so yes we're looking at all of them thank you and and i think what we will be able to do is if if there are less uh well there are less now and if there is something that um we don't add um back in we can explain why and most often it was um i know in other sections of the act most often it was because it was it was covered in other legislation um and we made very we were very careful to um honor uh the other legislation that that exists and not in impose from the education act into other areas um there's another question here um i have noticed that the new regulations authorize educations to conduct searches on students if if the right to have legal and psychological support and to work free from molestation molestation and abuse etc has been removed from the act who or what um who i'm sorry i jumped again um who or what will support or protect a teacher who conducts a search that is met with physical resistance and fight back from from a student thank you for the question um and i'm noting i'm making notes as we go here so um again this goes this goes back to uh the question that was raised earlier about guidelines around search and seizure so i'm noting that with regard to policy but i would i also want to point out that in the national code of conduct um it's very explicit in the regulations um in spelling out behavior that is not permissible that is that is not condoned and um what you're describing there around uh physical assault or or verbal abuse etc physical violence for example in the regulations in the the different types of behavior that are prohibited physical violence is certainly spelled out disruptive behavior is spelled out um in subordination toward teacher and principals is spelled out so we have certainly uh made every effort to verbal abuse is spelled out to highlight what is not acceptable in terms of conduct and um whether it's during a search and seizure or at any other time and uh also um as i said there's a standard for behavior but we've also been very detailed and addressing what is not acceptable behavior but with regard to search and seizure specifically um again we're we're recording everything and we will bring that to our legal counsel mrs st roes for consideration thank you for raising it these are excellent questions and this is a very complex matter again striking that balance between protecting safety and security and protecting the rights of students so again thank you so much for the feedback and and there is another question about a reasonable force and so i think um what we can do is is indicate um in our um in our feedback in terms around the search and seizure piece um what um i think there is actually a um we did have a discussion about reasonable force i do believe dr williams and i think there is actually a description about is what is reasonable force available i'm not sure it's in this act but in the um uh in other legislation is that correct we had discussion around defining reasonable force yes that's an ongoing discussion with mrs st roes right um and uh and and so there's yes there's ongoing i think we've got all of the uh questions about the searching of students if not please let me know um there was also a question about the composition of the consulting team um and um the the consultants while we have uh several consultants on our team who are subject experts in government legislation um uh and that sort of an education um the the uh four consultants who have made the greatest contribution to this work are uh mrs kim st roes who is um a saint lucian with expertise in the law obviously she's a lawyer and in in in in drafting uh mrs anthony who is a saint lucian and former chief education officer dr monica williams who is a um a specialist in uh leadership and governance from st francis Xavier uh university in novus kosher and myself um paula mckinnon who is uh the principle of mind bloom consulting um and have been involved in educational governance for um um over 20 years so um i think that um we have endeavored to ensure that there is um important membership on our team from st lucia so that we can understand um uh as best we can um the uh the um the context of st lucia and certainly the the persons from st lucia on our team have provided excellent counsel and then of course um we have consulted wide widely um to um get uh a better understanding of the issues that could perhaps be addressed in new legislation um there is also a question about um the meeting time for friday at 230 um that is um it says for something as important as the education act i think better consideration should be given to the time of the meeting with teachers it is slated for 230 on friday afternoon as opposed to earlier in the day when it it may be more convenient for most uh time being given to attend um and i i um i believe that um 230 uh was selected um to uh sort of give a balance between instructional time and time to consult um it wasn't uh that the time was not selected by us but uh i think that's something that you may wish to speak if if you uh think that a better time would be um helpful i think you should speak with um your principal or education act in that regard um and then there's another question the old act spoke directly to allowing teachers the right to participate in union activities but this new bill does not the words and to participate in the law full activities of the representative body or of which the teacher is a member has been removed why were words removed and can these words please be replaced thank you so much for that that is one of the things that we will be looking at and we have made note of that and you can rest assured that um that uh we will look definitely at that at that piece um so those were the items that are in the chat and i see no hands uh raised um so dr williams did you want to proceed yes let's go to the regulations and then we'll pause again to see if there are any questions or comments sorry i just uh here we go huh thank you so this is a one page snapshot of the draft regulations and has it's been mentioned a couple of times that if regulations are adopted with uh an updated education act they would be the first education regulations to come into force in st lusia and while the education act provides a legal framework the regulations are really important because they describe the procedures uh for putting the education act into practice for implementing it they provide guidance for interpretation of the act and for implementation the first section of the draft regulations contains the interpretation section with some definitions and a citation linking them directly to the education act part one is the administration of schools and here detail is provided about the parameters of the school year for example how many days are in the school year when the school year begins it ends um the length of the school day uh the length of school vacations the construction of school timetables the student admission process the school registers that have to be kept textbooks student assessments and zoning and i want to point out that one of the things we heard from many educators was that they did not feel they had enough time to cover the curriculum to fully teach the curriculum that there were many disruptions uh to the school day so we we have emphasized based on that input in this section of the regulations the protection of teaching time for teachers so that has uh been included in this section part two deals with the national curriculum which is aligned with the national qualifications framework in this section there is an elaboration on the subjects offered in primary and secondary school the components of the curriculum and as mentioned earlier we are looking at also adding a piece on early childhood education based on the feedback we've received so far in the town hall meetings part three deals with the management of schools and we've addressed uh many different kinds of schools public assisted private denominational schools are addressed and we've also provided more structure and guidance around homeschooling including a process for approving home homeschooling programs linking homeschooling to the national curriculum and provision for inspections of homeschooling programs and actually speaking of inspections this was another area where people requested more structure and detail so in schedule seven of the regulations we provided a list of matters to be addressed during visits and inspections part four addresses councils and associations including the students council the national students council the national representative body parent teacher community associations and the national council of parent teacher community associations again uh emphasizing partnership and collaboration in the education sector part five and and also in schedule eight in the regulations provides a detailed overview of the proposed national code of conduct including the guiding principles the standards of behavior the standard for appropriate dress categories of misbehavior acceptable and unacceptable responses to behavior and the roles responsibilities of everyone involved including students teachers principals the ministry of education and community members very much the national code of conduct is geared toward positive respectful behavior by all members of school community and the promotion of safety and security at school part six deals with discipline in particular disciplinary complaints so if complaints are made it describes procedure for hearings the responses by the chief education officer and the results of disciplinary hearings part seven describes the education appeals tribunal including the process for appeal how the hearing is held a decision and costs and part eight deals with miscellaneous topics including different schedules and forms so for example you will find in this part an application form for a permit to operate a private school there's also some discussion around fees and there are other components of the regulations that we're still awaiting finalization of so they will be built out even more once we get additional information next slide please just going to pause here for any questions or comments about the draft regulations anything that you were wondering about or you wanted to share there's a question in the chat and it says special education was not mentioned in the regulations will that be guided by the special education council all right thank you for the question yes the section in the act on special education has been expanded and the council will provide guidance in this area that's one of the functions of the council and I think Dr Williams also in terms of the regulations when it talks about responses to misbehavior there is there are guidelines there to tailor responses to unique students so it's much a much more inclusive approach to responding to students is that not correct that is correct the response to student misbehavior has to be appropriate and we spell that out in the national code of conduct appropriate it means that the response to the misbehavior is tailored to the student's age if whether or not they have any special needs and the circumstances so that is an issue that is addressed explicitly in the national code thank you and so there's a hand up please smc board yes please go ahead hey general this one is that I looked at the in terms of the draft regulations you stated that you've expanded like the school age or recommended expansion of school age from five to from the current five to fifteen to three to seventeen I was just wondering when you look at like James Heckman the Nobel laureate from University of Chicago and he was outlining that the the optimum return investment is when you engage the child even earlier than three years old and essentially they they become self-regulating in other words they'll stay in school longer they'll stay away from crime etc since the the government has to spend more money in terms of expanding this could be a compulsory issue 17 and I'm not talking about compulsory age going below three but I was wondering if there was any discussion around for a greater focus on engaging the child with quality child care prior to three years old considering that we are dealing with an economy which is service service oriented so I'm just looking at James James Hexman Heckman's work quite impressive and he has supported this argument to the return investment the optimum prior to three years old has any was any consideration given to that and the reason I'm asking now is that going to the fact that we are we outlined that a bill will last 20 years approximately so I think that we should be ready for that now we are service oriented economy and all women do not have access to quality early childhood education or quality child care so I just wonder whether any consideration was given to that that was discussed at all thank you very much for the question and certainly early childhood education from birth onward and it's defined variously some define it birth to five years some in the literature say birth to 80 eight years some say birth to 12 years we did certainly discuss that at length and the importance of having a supportive early childhood education that that's available and affordable and when we expanded the school age that was compulsory school age as you pointed out for three to 17 years but that doesn't preclude you know the provision of quality child care and early childhood education from birth um up to three years we we had the discussion we settled on three to five to start and one of the reasons that we did that as has been mentioned is some schools are already offering pet pre-kindergarten programs for four-year-olds and some early childhood education and we we hit upon that number but I'm going to ask for Tuna and Paula if they wanted to comment further on that well well certainly um while we support well while the literature does support early childhood education at an earlier age we did need to distinguish the child care from education this is an education act and actually jurisdictions have just recently introduced affordable child care through separate initiatives outside of the education act so we we we thought that moving to three was an excellent move from five and and so supported that in in terms of the vision that was shared with us by st lucians um and um and the matter of child care um probably would be best served uh through a different type of legislation that provided for that care thank you Paula and again thank you for the question excellent question okay any other questions oh yes go ahead SMC board final final question from me um final question from me so you're aligned in terms of um non-discrimination who into gender and I was wondering whether you would and the consultants are going to have some definition of that or what are you going to leave it up to to our government to decide uh relative to to to gender issues so you know we've been following of course what has transpired in the united states and um we we are aware you know in terms of um the the tremendous social debate that occurs that surrounds issues of gender and and so we're just wondering whether you you will make a specific recommendation or you're going to leave it up to the government our government to to to decide on on on issues of gender et cetera I mean I could go into more detail but I think you get my uncle from yes thank you for the question and it is a complex topic I just would I would point out to begin with that in our discussions about gender um what we were mainly hearing about was um protection against discrimination on the basis of gender for example that girls wouldn't be prevented from um enrolling in science classes or advanced math classes that they they could participate in them and access that programming but you're raising an important point there are many other facets to gender and one of the things that um Mrs McKinnon highlighted earlier is that we make recommendations but the government makes the decisions and so it will be um at the discretion of the of the government as to how that issue was handled and there are many different facets of it another related point that came up was legal name uh have what name is recorded in a school record so there are many different facets that will have to be addressed and I do I do believe in our discussions we also um um it was also indicated to us that some of this actually may flow over into the constitution as well so it probably actually extends beyond education act work and extends into the constitution right and I know and I know I promised this was the last question but just from an extension an extension of your of your answer have you considered the fact that in St Lucia we have some well a few um schools that are reserves for specific genders as as we currently define it I guess um so we have an old boy school we have a few old boy schools we have a couple old girls schools have that's not being considered because when you look at um the the notion or the idea of of of having a like some governing rules that that pertains to all children going to school when there are different interactions at certain schools they know some teachers may have different experiences trying to manage an old boys school versus an old girls school um you know I was just wondering whether that was given any consideration the uniqueness of of our experience here in St Lucia yeah and um yeah and I don't think you'll have anything relative to in solution of girls being prevented from math that we said in math class or science class or because um yeah I mean the ladies graduate in the university in the curb the curbing that a higher rate than than guys I mean I'm just wondering how have you all considered our unique experiences here in St Lucia has that been considered yeah thank you for the question yes on a number of fronts certainly again this is your education act and the context the unique context of St Lucia has been has been taken into account it's at the forefront and to repeat we've emphasized upholding the cultures the languages the histories the peoples of St Lucia um and making the national curriculum as an example a curriculum for St Lucia unique to your society and that it has to be tailored that way um with regard to have we considered the unique context in terms of the different schools one of the ways we've addressed that is in the act and the regulations addressing denominational schools which you've mentioned as all boys are all all all girls schools assisted schools private schools public schools so we have attempted to address the different kinds of schools that are on St Lucia that are part of the education system um and we'll certainly note your question about gender and the um the different schools that cater to one gender only thank you for that and and there's a question in the chat can the consultants kindly commit to making the updated document available to available to us prior to submission how else would we know that our comments even if not at all have been considered um that is a fair question um it is not at all up to the consultants what is shared um uh we are engaged by the ministry of education and um and the ministry makes the decisions about um about uh what is shared contractually that was that's been in our contract since we entered into this um so we are here uh in service to you and uh so I would suggest that if you're looking for commitment um you look for that commitment um from the from the ministry although I must say that um persons have commented um uh that um this is one of the most open and consultative processes that um that they've been aware of um in in quite a while in St Lucia so uh and that's just comments that we've heard it throughout our piece we we don't pass judgment one way or the other and so um I I am confident that from working with um those in the ministry that it would be their intention uh for uh the sharing that that we have witnessed uh since the beginning of this consultancy to to continue um and there's more questions in the chat uh uh oh I think that is it in the chat and actually that's a good lead into the next slide which is next steps okay thank you Monica there we go oh sorry your priorities and hopes going forward I'm sorry um so we've had some uh uh animated discussion tonight in exchange of ideas we really want to hear what are the top three priorities that you think need to be addressed in the draft education act and regulations going forward um we want to hear what you feel are the most important issues to be addressed because there are so many issues in education and so many uh different requests that have been made we're trying to identify what are the main priorities and what do you hope will come out of the draft act and regulations what do you hope will come out of updating the education act this is your education act what would you like to see change as a result of it so if you would kindly take a moment or two and and put in the chat box or raise your hand and share with us what you think the top priorities are and what you hope will come out of this review we'd really like to hear it from you and and while persons are reflecting on that um the uh miss Emanuel who is with us tonight from from the equip office and the ministry said stakeholder engagement will continue throughout this iterative process so uh the person who was asking about consultation can be assured that that that will happen and I do believe there was another comment um here as well um oh yes a question who makes up the special education council and why is special education the only group with the council I'm not yet sure how I feel about it it feels like exclusion um so uh Dr. Williams did you want to respond to that yes please thank you for the question the composition of the council for special needs education and inclusive education is spelled out in the education act so I'm just going to that section of the act now so we can describe some of the members of that council for you while I'm going to the exact page I do want to point out there are other councils uh referenced in the act student councils um the TVET council is described in detail in the education act and with regard to the composition of the special needs education and inclusive education council that's described in section 53-2 it includes the permanent secretary of the department of education the chief education officer the education officer responsible for special education and inclusive education the principal or proprietor of a special needs school one person appointed on the recommendation of a national advocacy group for persons with disabilities one teacher with expertise in special needs education and inclusive education one representative of the st lusia teachers union one representative of the st lusia principles association one parent of a student with special needs and one secondary school student with special needs so we tried to make sure there was wide representation on the council and that many different voices would be heard thank you for the question and one of the top three things that I want to see coming out of this consultation is for the current rights of teachers to remain in the new bill as they are the removal of these rights is not acceptable thank you for that comment it has definitely been noted tonight and actually in an earlier session and we in an earlier session and we will look into into um that um and um and respond as best we can any any other persons wanted to share their um their hopes for the act hey perhaps we can go to next steps Dr. Williams thank you so what are the next steps this question has been raised several times tonight and it's a great question um the questions and comments provided by participants in each town hall meeting are being recorded and they will be analyzed to identify the main topics and issues that have been raised by members of the public these topics and issues will be addressed in the validation and finalization of the draft act and regulations and of this final draft an accompanying report will be prepared and submit it to the government of st lusia for consideration in fulfillment of our contract I don't know paul if you wanted to provide any additional information there no um that that is the process that will complete our work as consultants um and then the process still continues to as the proposed bill and regulations proceed um through the approval process thank you next slide please so at this point I'd like to thank everyone so much for your attendance and participation here tonight and for your patience we've gone over time a bit but it's been a very rich discussion and we've learned a lot from you so thank you most sincerely for that and I'd like to ask mr jareef now if you would be so kind as to provide some closing comments as we move toward adjournment of the meeting mr jareef yes thank you thank you dr williams again let me see a big thank you to our consultants um dr williams um mrs paula mckinnon and mrs anthony and um all those behind the scene who are part of this consultation process of course I must say a big thank you to district five um and all those who came out tonight I know we've exceeded the stipulated time given but it's all in the name of of discussion all in the name of moving forward um in the best interest of all those involved and so I won't say thank you um like you heard from the team there will be more opportunities for you to share your concerns um we have received the the link for the meeting on friday so we will share that by tomorrow god's willing and um you can be a part of it so the discussion can continue I know there are sensitive issues I know there are concerns we have and here's a chance to to be a part of history be a part of what um would make you and your your family and the generational head um operate in a in an environment that everybody can work um comfortably and so again I say thank you to you for joining um when I look at my records I think we exceeded 110 um online plus those who probably assemble as a group and so I want to see I feel encouraged and so of course do have a blessed night and again thank you team and may god bless us all thank you very much good night thank you very much good night thank you looking forward to much more coming from teachers and um I don't think we mentioned once that don't forget a lot of the rights of the teachers are protected because there is a agreement with um sltu so nothing is done in isolation thank you all ever so much for coming and sharing good night good night yeah good night good night good night