 Good morning. Good afternoon. Whatever time it is that you might be joining us. Welcome to the nonprofit show. We are so thrilled to have with us our dear friend, Pearl Hoagland. Pearl is the director at fundraising academy and she's bringing to us a conversation in a two part series. So today is part one tomorrow is part two. And it's all about building rapport with gatekeepers so stay with us as we dive deep in this conversation with our bestie Pearl and hello to Julia CEO of the American nonprofit Academy so good to be here with you Julia. Hi, I'm Julia Ransom your nonprofit nerd CEO of the Raven group and always excited to get nerdy in conversations Julia tries to hold me close to her vest and says that I'm her nonprofit nerd but I like to remind you there is plenty of nerdyness to go around so Thank you for this always excited to have the ongoing support from our very amazing presenting sponsors, which also include fundraising Academy, but let me give a quick verbal shout out to those of you that are listening by podcast. Thank you very much to bloomering American nonprofit Academy. Again fundraising Academy at National University where our guest Pearl Hoagland joins us from today. Be generous, your part time controller staffing boutique nonprofit thought leader and the nonprofit nerd we are so honored to have their continued support and their investment in the sector so really glad to have them with us day in and day out as we move forward into our fourth year of the nonprofit show I'm really excited for that. If you missed any of our episodes along the way, you can find us at Roku YouTube Amazon Fire TV as well as Vimeo, and for those podcast listeners like I am, go ahead and queue up the nonprofit show wherever you stream your podcast. Now again our guest today Pearl Hoagland she joins us director fundraising Academy at National University. Welcome Pearl. Thanks for having me and I just wanted to nerd out with you. So happy. Thanks for having me. Yeah, you know these these nerd glasses are hot commodity I think I gave you. I don't know I gave you a parent AFP icon I think I saw another pair but I hand them out like candy and I love when they show up on the show so thank you for the best. Thank you for the news for you. This will make you really happy Jared. Pearl was with us on Friday for asking answered, and she pulled our glasses. I love it. Yeah, I have a right here. I love it. Fantastic. Well hey Pearl, tell us a little bit about fundraising Academy and National University for our viewers and listeners that this might be new to them. Yes, absolutely. Well, thanks for having me here fundraising Academy, we are housed at National University, which is a nonprofit veteran founded University in San Diego. Well, headquartered in San Diego but fully online we teach adults from undergrad associates degree all the way up to PhDs. Academy is a professional development program within National University. We teach fundraisers from all around the country and frankly all around the world to build relationships with individual donors so that they can grow philanthropy throughout the region and bring more money to their organizations. And so very needed so today you're talking to us about, you know, penetrating through the most and then moving, moving to, you know, talking to, to the key players so our first key talking point you're going to talk about is before you see the king our queen, you have to get across that note and I want to add the fire breathing dragon to. That's fabulous Jared, you know, it's true because I think, you know, it's not uncommon to have fear around this process of fundraising and we hear that all the time Jared I mean don't you think people are always like, oh I'm good, you know I'm so afraid, you know this. Yeah, and one of these things is getting past that gatekeeper or even dare I say getting to that gatekeeper. And so, talk to us a little bit about what that gatekeeper even looks like and what the concept is, and maybe that in itself will help kind of reduce some of our attention, or maybe it'll spike it I don't know. No, I think it's you know that quote is hilarious it's from our textbook. One thing I would urge everyone to do though is to remember that a relationship with any donor. There is a mutual beneficial mutually beneficial relationship. So, a donor has the financial investment if you're looking for a financial contribution from that donor. You are the expert and you're doing the great work so just remembering that to maintain that power balance so even as we talk about gatekeepers, try to continue to position yourself as a partner versus. I'm, you know, looking up here I need you and I'm the, the one asking for money I would just always encourage you even as you're talking about gatekeepers to remember that you are offering a product it is a social return on investment it's still a benefit. Yeah, so, oh yeah tell me what we're going to say. No, I love that because right out the gate. And again, going back to that fear point that right there just don't you think it makes it seem like, Hey, this is a conversation a relationship it's not a power struggle it's. I love that just overarching approach and, and you know it seems to me the gatekeeper concept has morphed and changed even just during the pandemic. What, what are gatekeepers looking like right now. The gatekeeper is anyone that you need to work with to meet with that donor it could be a family member, it could be a professional assistant even a personal assistant. A friend, anyone that is going to help open a door for you to that individual who has influence with them. So that is someone that your prospect trust and listens to and someone that you want on your side helping advocate for you. What about Pearl I know when we look at you know funders and there are you know guidelines on their website of a process that you need to carry out. You know so it might be send a letter of intent to this email and then you know from that will review it. So, gatekeepers and improve me wrong if I'm you know kind of sharing this incorrectly, can also be digital is that true. Oh, absolutely and especially when you look at the world today. The way that we are, for example, fundraising Academy the way that we're teaching people to build relationships virtually it applies to gatekeepers and frankly the way you cultivate a gatekeeper is how you build relationships with anyone. It's a different objective, and a different, you know, perhaps time period that you're that you're engaging them but yes no matter what it is you are looking for whatever that open door that that entity that is opening the door that is the gatekeeper. And oftentimes like they have, you know, and a lot of amount of money every single year that they will grant out or they will award. And so why not be their partner, you know why not let them know that you have a great mission alignment with their core values and their own mission alignment So, I love this so we're going to move into several tips and again, those of you watching and listening this is a two part series so we're going to go through three of these tips today and four of them tomorrow so building rapport as you said it and we should really be doing this for all relationships not just funders so we can pull this into our personal life. But number one, your tip is to adjust your attitude. What do you mean by that. So having served one as a gatekeeper at a previous foundation and also cultivating gatekeepers. I can tell you that, again, you want to cultivate a relationship with this person in a way that you would cultivate with anyone that you want to build an authentic relationship with so be kind, be understanding that you are asking their time you're asking them to give you time and be authentic. People want to connect with people who are authentic. You can, you can see in sincerity you can, you can feel it so if that's how you're trying to cultivate relationship it's not going to be effective but also recognize that they're giving you time to just as you're giving them time so have the right attitude, be gracious that they are opening that door for you to have that relationship. I love that because I think that is something that is just a good behavior across the board. You know from from when you walk into your own office, or your service center, or whatever it's just it's just a general. It's a healthier way to behave. Right. I mean, I think we're going to all agree, we've seen a lot of unpleasantness in the last, you know, several years, just within social interaction. And so yeah, I love that you say this I think that's just an amazing, amazing piece. The next piece of this, which is, you know, point number two. And again, I want to spend a little bit more time on this because honesty is the best policy and it's like, we're going to tell somebody we're going to ask him for money up front I mean like what did this actually mean for all. So, ethically, you shouldn't be lying anyways, right, that is important. And remember that these individuals are close to your prospect. So also just know that if you are not honest, they will find out, they will ultimately find out, and that relationship that door will be closed on you so one, if you feel like you can't be honest there's a deeper issue there that needs to be addressed. But again, when you are especially when you represent an organization and you are a fundraiser people know why you're there. If you have done your research, you know that this is a prospect to have high propensity to give to your organization, then you should be honest because they know why you're there. If they see that from you they see that you're up front I want to develop a relationship. Talk about how we can enhance impact together, bloody bloody blah. They're you're more likely to again to build an authentic relationship, you're starting out, and you're not honest, you are never going to be able to recover from that. I have a question for you along this line because it seems to me and I don't know if it's just our community, but in the last 10 or 15 years. There's been a lot of development teams that have used this tool of, we are doing a survey about what our community thinks about us. We come to you high net worth donor and ask you these questions. And it just, it just seems to me like it's a total scam to get in the door because everybody wants to have their opinion asked it's like it seems like, Oh, we're being very gracious and we want to ask you these questions but in reality, they're trying to to get to you to ask, you know, for money and I'm wondering if you've seen this or have you maybe not as much as you have I might not be quite up on the level of fluency in our community. Oh, wow. I have definitely gotten a view and and I really see those as feasibility studies they are the preliminary conversations of capital campaigns right. And that's really where I'm seeing it and and I have as I said I've gotten a few, and they are from organizations that I've been remotely a part of but not very, very tied to and so it's, it doesn't. I don't want to give them my time because I'm currently not even giving them my money. Right. Well yeah. Yeah, and so that's interesting. All right, so Pearl, how do you, how do you do this I mean with this like, don't worry we're not going to ask for money. Yeah, that's a good question and we, we talk a lot about that one when we talk about the approach, which is step three of the cost selling cycle. The way that you approach a donor, you need to do enough research about them to really know what drives them to give. What do they care about so when you're approaching them, ideally, there is some sort of. There's no call not a cold call there's some sort of connection already, or you know someone who knows them, Julia I think we talked about that on Friday. But again, speaking to what they care about. And it can be, I'm not asking you for a gift today. Often we do say if you're not asking for, make sure some of your touch points are not do not have an ass. Yeah, at some point I would love to talk about that today I just want to better understand how we can blink or whatever that looks like but be sure that you know enough about that donor that you know what will excite them and make them interested. And you also want to do that research on the gatekeeper as well. So you want to be sure you know as much as you can about them so that you can again that first contact is comfortable and it speaks to them. So that's really critical. I feel like we're already organically moving into the number three but I do feel like the first two are basic humanity and kind of kindergarten lessons like not to downplay the model but it's like one, be kind, be the person that you need to have that conversation with. And number two, be honest, right like, these are the core levels of humanity that I think, you know, if we do do your point Pearl take that into all relationships that would that would do better for everyone. And you know I will say with the adjust your attitude especially I do know I've been there where you know how great your causes, you're living it day in day out. You also know that you have this financial goal that you have to meet so sometimes I can speak for myself. I've skipped over steps, and I know sometimes I've caught myself feeling almost entitled who shouldn't give me a great organization so I can also understand how we might forget that we might forget that this person might not have a relationship with us. They might be speaking with a number of other organizations so I do I have had to remind myself to adjust my attitude because we're amazing. Why don't you want to partner with us. I wouldn't you want to find out I don't get it. I think it's an important reminder that like you said humanity comes first. Yeah, yeah, it does. Now, the next part of this is maybe where we get down to be a little bit more specific and that is get personal information this is tip number three. And it's not really tip I would say it's strategy number three of these seven strategies that we're covering. What are you talking about are you talking about personal information of both the gatekeeper and that person you're going to meet with or what are we looking at here. So both definitely if you are ready to reach out to a prospect, ie through a gatekeeper, you want to be sure that you've done all of the research necessary on that prospect, including not just what they're interested in but they're giving history, any connections with your organization that you can reference in your in your outreach and then same thing with the gatekeeper, they're an individual. Yes, they will open doors. Yes, they most likely have the donors the prospects year, but they're their own person. So as much research as you can done on that do on them in a way that's ethical of course and that supports relationship building really what it does is it informs how you reach out to them, any potential red flags. For example, if you know that there's something, you know whether it's through social media that that might turn them the other way. So make sure to avoid that but not in a way like I know this about you when I know this to really support an authentic relationship starter, and also it's not just prior it's when you're meeting with them asking about them, because you know everyone likes to hear their name, use their name, ask them questions about themselves, get them talking and remember those details. And again that's authentic. Very authentic man drop a nugget here because I very similarly there's a gatekeeper of a foundation and I've actually known her for years in my career and so I work with many organizations. Well, I know she's a grandmother and I know she spends so much time with her grandchildren and bringing that up, you can get her to talk for hours right and that is just authentic it is real, and it's humanity and the person first and just something like that and I think and Pearl you've seen it Julia you've seen it, you have a conversation and people tell you they tell you a lot and you have to take mental notes and you know capture that. So just something as simple as being a grandparent that is such a big key piece of information. Yeah, it is and I can also say be cautious exactly what you said Jared that's such an authentic genuine connection and something that's close to their heart. So as you're doing that be cautious about I know when I was in a gatekeeper role at a foundation and it was very clear when people were trying to connect with me I can say but not really I could tell they were not going to remember what they told them, or they'd ask the same questions every time so yeah like you said remember those key details and ask how's your granddaughter doing. Yeah, it's just such a simple thing it's authentic it's real, but just yeah be very intentional. And what you ask and make sure that you're gauging how they're responding to your questions not everybody does want to share so be sure that you're meeting them. Yeah, so I've got a question to for you Pearl and that is to what you just said. The gatekeeper of a foundation whose business is to give money away and it's transactional. And in that's, that's one aspect, but let's say the gatekeeper of, you know, a business owner, and, and you're trying to engage them in their personal philanthropy. It, it can be a little different right. Absolutely and I can share one of the foundations was for a it was a family foundation. So it was individual donors and the other was actually community foundation with individual fund holders. Yeah, so similarly you're kind of in a way of representing both but yes, for the individual. You're protecting their time, you are protecting their resources, you know that they're getting hit up by multiple organizations so in a way as the organization you are one of many. So you have to stand out. Again, what do they give to both the donor and this gatekeeper are they also do they also conduct philanthropy to but yes it's, it is different depending on the type of gatekeeper. I think that you are connecting in a way that's relevant. I would say inappropriate based on what that relationship looks like. Great point. Yeah. Are you seeing Jared and more and more like I want my trust advisor to be there or I want my attorney or, you know, some other like business aspect that fits in administratively. No, no, no. Okay, not and I'm not even seeing like the married couples coming to the table quite as often right like I'm seeing one of them meeting up and then you know everyone's got a really busy schedule but you know let me go back share with my boss share with my business advisor share with my attorney. I'll get back to you so you know it used to be to me and it still is make sure all decision makers are there at the conversation. But I think it just depends on where you are in the cycle right where are you in your steps and do you have the right people in as part of the conversation. Yeah. Yeah, very, very interesting. Pearl, I got to ask you this. As you navigated your relationship with this piece of it as being a gatekeeper. How, how much did you see this in play. Could you identify where somebody was, or that you made a decision that was like really hard to get past like, they're just like totally fake. I'm not even going to move this forward I mean, how, how much of a decision and an influence I guess is my question, were you to that ultimate process. As a gatekeeper very definitely I would say a lot of. Well I was one of a few gatekeepers and we definitely had the process the donors ear and our word, maybe not mine but my bosses and my first the first time I can remember my boss absolutely had our donors ear, whatever she said he trusted they'd work together for 35 years. They had that relationship so if a nonprofit was in her corner, then absolutely that was getting on his desk, no question. So really I can say that anytime I've served as a gatekeeper or worked with a gatekeeper absolutely there is for me when I knew that the nonprofits that I spoke with that I could develop a connection with and I could really understand the impact of their work. And that was on this top of mind so if I had a donor come to me asking, I would always do the research granted I would always do the research to be sure I was getting a larger pool because not every nonprofit has the resources to stay top of mind which which I understand, but I but they were top of mind, so they were absolutely going to be included in that in that research. And also if I knew of a nonprofit I did my own research, I wanted to know more about them if it was someone who was connecting with me at a human level and I really enjoyed that connection. Of course, I'm going to see their name I'm going to open up that article it's it's human nature when you see something that you're aware of, you start to learn more about them so the thing is, when you get in on the same side as a gatekeeper, they're going to do some of that work for you. If they really care about your work, maybe they get involved as a volunteer. Yeah, that actually eliminates some of the work you have to do to get to that prospect. I have another question curveball. How often do gatekeepers talk to other gatekeepers and my question there really is about, we can find a lot of information online but how much do we actually source our own peer group for additional insight. That is such a great question. Yeah, I did not personally speak with a lot of other gatekeepers outside of my close network. I'm sure I feel like if you're looking at professional assistance for example executive assistance. There are professional groups. Oh yeah, maybe through LinkedIn, for example, or personal groups but that's a great question I would really love to look into that and study that. Well, I know here in our community, they definitely talk and if you don't do your impact report or you don't follow up with those reporting guidelines for the award or the investment, that is a big no-no and word travels fast. When you think of the professional advisor gatekeeper world, estate planning attorneys, financial advisors, definitely that's an area where I would suggest get to know them. A lot of organizations have councils, so professional advisor councils, make sure that your information is on their desk that they are aware of your organization because again they also have a lot of power with their clients. And if your information, your materials are in their office, that is just such great exposure for you. So thinking of those more professional gatekeepers, yeah, highly recommend engaging them, even if you don't have a specific prospect in mind, just do that work on the side and let them do that work for you. Yeah, I love it. I think it's amazing. Well, you know, Pearl, it's really an exciting opportunity for Jared and I to get this time with you because as the director of Fundraising Academy, you are a busy woman with people all over the world and so we are thrilled. We love all of the folks and experts and the trainers that you send us. They're great, but this is a real rare and special opportunity for us. So we are so appreciative. Again, Pearl Hogan, director of Fundraising Academy at National University, check them out at fundraising-academy.org. You'll see a lot of really interesting things that they're doing. And remember, tomorrow is part two. So we have four more very interesting ideas for all of us to approach gatekeepers with. And I think you'll be surprised at some of them because they're not the normal thing that you would think no matter how many years, how many years you've served in a community or you've been asking. I found some of these things were new. More importantly, before we let you go, can you talk to us briefly about the new online learning portal that you all have established? Yes, of course. And also thank you so much for having me back today. So our online learning portal, first I want to preface this with it is it is completely no cost to anyone who signs up and all of the content on our portal is completely free. This is a library of all of our on-demand content, whether it's prospecting templates, sample questions to ask a prospect throughout the entire relationship driven cause selling cycle, live and on-demand webinars with CFRE trackers. You can actually work towards your CFRE education and track your CFRE progress through our portal. We just launched my progress where you can now bookmark all of the content on our portal, find it in one place so you don't have to go phishing through the portal to find it, and then track all of your learning and your education for each of those. So it is just such a great portal. I go in it probably every single day just for my own learning. We add content on a regular basis. It is just a wonderful platform that when you just need either a quick tip or a quick strategy or you want to do some longer learning through longer webinars, we've got you covered. I love it. It's amazing. And I know you have a new textbook that's going to be coming out probably in the next year or so, but I have loved this. I mean, obviously you can see on my post-it notes, but it's really great information. And then to marry the digital portal, it's beautifully done too. Really easy to navigate and something that it's good information, but sometimes you can have good information. It's not easy to navigate. And you all have done a beautiful, beautiful job. Hey, everybody. I'm Julia Patrick. I've been joined by, I like to say my nonprofit nerd, but really the nonprofit nerd. I'm Jared Ransom, CEO of the Raven Group. Amazing, amazing dialogue. And what a great week start, a great way to start our week. Don't you think, Jared? Fantastic. Yeah. Really a lot of fun. Hey, we want to make sure we thank everyone who's with us day in and day out. That includes Blumerang, American nonprofit academy, your part time controller, be generous, fundraising academy at National University, staffing boutique, nonprofit thought leader, and the nonprofit nerd. Hey, this is going to be really fun. Tomorrow, ladies, we get to explore the next four pieces of this. It'll be a lot of fun. I can't wait. So appreciative. Hey, as we like to end every episode, we want to remind ourselves, our viewers, especially Pearl, because she's got to be back here tomorrow. Stay well, so you can do well. Thanks everybody. Have a great day and we'll see you back here tomorrow.