 So, are you here with a group on vaping? Yes, yes. You are? Yes. Would you mind introducing yourselves to us? Yes. Where are you from? Burlington. Burlington. Good place to be. So, I understand you have something going on at 11 o'clock or not? In 11? Yes. We do. So, we're going to identify one or two people who can leave this committee and go with you in Room 11. Are you supposed to be in there at 11? Yes. Okay. So, we'll do that. I don't know that all of us can go, but we will have representatives for you. Thank you for being here. And who would like to go? I would like to go. All right. Wait. Senator McCormick and Senator Cummings will represent us well. And they will mention the other three senators who are unable to leave. We'll be back in five minutes. Okay. Good. Thank you. Okay. Jen. Yes. We have something for us. I do. That's how the party looks like. The first FYI, when I opened it up last night, I saw a bold identity yellow. Can you see it now? Yes. I'll be fine. Yes. I'll be fine. Oh, I see. I've got yellow. Great. Okay. Yeah. Somebody said you don't, depending on what you look for, you open it and see the markup. So, why don't we just skip to the yellow? Okay. I want to do that. Sure. So, Jennifer Carvey, legislative council. So, I'm going to show you all of the things that have changed since the last election, which reflects things you talked about on Friday and a few things you didn't talk about on Friday. So, the first is on page five. I have added in, for purposes of amending it, the definition of tobacco substitute, which is our statutory language for e-cigarette. And I tried to do this. I know there's interest among some of the advocates to move to somebody else's definitions. I think our definitions have worked well for us. I think they're not something problematic, but I was trying to anticipate some of the issues either that they were bringing or that may be coming online soon, whether it's new products or new ways of using e-cigarettes. So, I made some changes to the definition of tobacco substitute. Some of it is just to put it in the singular, because tobacco substitute should mean something singular. Macro substitute means any product, including an electronic cigarette or other electronic or battery-powered device. So, that's all just putting it in the singular. But then I added or any component part or accessory thereof. So, any part of an electronic or cigarette or other electronic or battery-powered device that contains or is designed to deliver nicotine or other substances into the body through the inhalation, and then I added or other absorption. Because some of the literature suggests that people are not actually inhaling it into their lungs but holding it in their mouth and letting it absorb into the tissues of. And I added to be consistent with our e-liquid definition aerosol, vapor, and then I also added or other emission in case it comes out in some other form that is either aerosol or vapor. And that has not been approved by the FDA for tobacco cessation or other medical purposes. That's existing law. And, of course, it maintains the language saying anything that is approved by the FDA for tobacco cessation or other medical purposes is not a tobacco substitute. Okay. So, this still fits with what we have been using previous? Still fits with our existing language throughout the statutes on tobacco substitute. So, other than changing it from plural definition going with a singular term to being a singular definition going with a singular term, the things that I added are the concept of any component part or accessory of a tobacco substitute because there seem to be different pieces and they all kind of fit with what you're talking about. And also adding this concept of absorption in a manner other than inhalation and inhalation or absorption of aerosol or other emission in addition to vapor. It's okay. It's trying to be a little bit broader in order to capture what might be coming out of place. Right. And similarly in the definition of E liquid, I modified other for emissions since aerosol and vapor seem to be emissions to be inhaled and I added or otherwise absorbed by the user. So, this is a solution substance or other material used in or with a tobacco substitute that is heated or otherwise acted upon to produce an aerosol vapor or other emission to be inhaled or otherwise absorbed by the user regardless of whether the liquid contains nicotine. Liquid contains nicotine to whether the material we say solution substance or other material and maybe we say it's here. Liquid. Right. So, again, trying to be as broad yet specific as possible. So, happy to entertain other suggestions. I missed things. All right. So then we go through with no changes until page nine. And this is where I took out the possession. And so, because you were leaving in the prohibition on the purchase, I changed the section heading to say persons under 21 years of age purchase of tobacco products rather than possession and then misrepresenting age. And I'm just fixing that typo. I keep identifying but not fixing. Before. Why did we do that? Why did we make that change? To get rid of possession. Yeah. That was what you had asked for on Friday. I know that. That's why. I think in part because you were looking to not have a penalty for possession. You had heard testimony from some advocates with concerns about penalizing what they considered an addiction. Miners. Yes. This is the one that we talked about on Friday. Right. I was just asking for a review of that talk. Right. I was asking for a review of the talk. I also flagged this for the Economic Development Committee where I was just doing a bit of an overview so they're aware of this in your current draft. And this does fall within their jurisdiction, the enforcement pieces. Yeah. Right now they're working on just getting their heads around the whole concept and what the market looks like and stuff. So I took out the possession language and then we didn't need the language saying unless the person, I didn't think we needed it, is an employee of a holder tobacco license and is in possession of the products to affect the sale and the course of employment. So if the ban is just on purchase or attempting to purchase then we don't need an exemption for the underage employee. Similarly in subsection B, the penalty which is currently on possession would apply to the purchase or attempt to purchase tobacco products, tobacco substitutes, e-liquids or tobacco paraphernalia. This is the civil penalty of $25. Brought in the same manner as a traffic violation because it's Judicial Bureau. I did check in yesterday and got confirmation from the judicial branch that it does not have an impact on the light just because something goes through the Judicial Bureau and is handled in the same manner as a traffic violation unless it is a traffic violation or otherwise specifies that there would be an effect on their driver's license or ability to operate that there is not an automatic connection there. And it doesn't have all, you put all kinds of surcharges on traffic violation. There may be. So there are some charges that can get added based on when a person pays the bill or waiver penalty and all that. But nothing that is, I mean the structure of the traffic tickets itself does not apply here. So this is a new charge so we wouldn't. This itself is not a new charge. It's actually an existing provision. But you do have a new charge later in the ban on retail sale. Okay. I just want to make sure because for a while putting a surcharge on traffic, I think we funded clerks. We funded, I think, some victims' rights. There were several surcharges. There are, I mean there are some surcharges waiver penalties in the judicial bureau chapter but anything that was in the traffic violation statute specifically is not automatic. Here. Okay. I just want to make sure we think we're putting 25. But there's already $500 worth of surcharges on any fee. So as long as this is it, this is it. So you may want to hear from someone in the judicial branch or specific to the judicial bureau about how this all plays out. I was trying to look at the statutes and their information available online but it's hard to get a specific amount. And if you can, we can. We'll find out. Yeah. I mean we should judge a person or somebody on his behalf. Yeah, we should do that. Just to understand what happens there. I mean that's an existing provision. So that's nothing new except taking up the possession penalty. On page 12, I just corrected what I think was a typo omission in striking from the last version looking at the contraband and seizure and expanding from all cigarettes or other tobacco products seized under the contraband and seizure section would be destroyed. We changed it to items but the cigarette and tobacco product language was not struck through. So that is just a conforming change. On pages 14 and 15, this is the liquid, what is currently liquid nicotine packaging and the requirement that it be in child proof packaging. I just changed it to use the terminology of e-liquids containing nicotine and the packaging for that. So I was not looking to make any substantive changes there but just being consistent with your language throughout the chapter. And then we get to the flavor ban in section 1013 which starts on page 15. The changes are actually on not until page 17. So the first thing on page 17 is the addition of a definition of tobacco retailer. This was to address the concern of the advocates that it not be the clerk at the store who gets the penalty but that the penalty go to the owner, operator, or manager of the retail establishment. So this would define tobacco retailer as any individual, partnership, joint venture, society, club, trustee, trust association, organization, corporation who owns, operates, or manages any retail establishment that has a tobacco license from the division of liquor control. Then in subsection B, it is no person, so broader, shall engage and remember when you talked on Friday you narrowed it from selling, offering to sell, giving, providing, transporting, manufacturing, or otherwise distributing to just the retail sale. So this would prohibit the no person shall engage in the retail sale of any flavored tobacco product, flavored e-liquid or flavored tobacco substitute but then the penalty in subsection C would be on the retailer. So somebody can go across the border and buy stuff. Somebody can go across the border and buy and bring it back and hand them out or potentially sell them because the... Tobacco license requirement applies to retail sale. So bus through the senior center goes to aquasizing and somebody buys a case of cigarettes and gives it to their friend. They aren't going to... It's a gift. Okay. Right. Okay. And I may want to look at the language in subsection C a little bit more just as far as the change from person tobacco to tobacco retailer to make it clear that if it happens at the store then it's a penalty on the owner, operator, or manager but even if it's the clerk who does the selling. I think that... So I mean assuming that is your intent, I think it's not quite clear the way I've done it that it doesn't have to be that owner or person who affects the sale but if it's a clerk who affects the sale for that owner it's really their job to enforce with their employees. The person violates this section. Are you going to fix that? Yes, the tobacco retailer. I think maybe that's how I'll do it. The person violates this section. The tobacco retailer shall be subject to a civil penalty of not more than $100 for a first offense and not more than $500 for any subsequent offense. And then the bottom of the page in the judicial bureau existing jurisdiction over violations of under current law possession of tobacco products by a person under 21 years of age, I changed it to purchase to match your change or elimination of the penalty for possession under age. And then on page 20, we had talked last time about potentially picking a date certain for the act to take effect so there was some predictability for retailers. I put July 1st as a starting point but there's no reason it needs to be that date or just starting with a date certain period of time. I know we put 21 in October. September 1st, that was a compromise in the Human Services Committee. So you could certainly use September 1st here for some other date. Questions for Jenna. She spans the retail sale of mental secrecy. I have but not the possession. Right. Because my concern is we haven't done primary seat belt in a lot of other things because of concerns that that could generate into some actions that would disadvantage minorities and we've talked a lot about minorities. And I don't want a police officer have the ability to say is that a mental cigarette or is that a tobacco cigarette? We're going to go down to the station and talk about that. I also have concerns. To me there's a fine line on the nanny state. I don't mind doing everything I can to prevent youth from being addicted. I have some concerns about where they may go given that I'm told hemp cigarettes are readily available and not taxed. God only knows what hemp cigarettes do but there are adults who are addicted. There are adults who whether or not we say clinically it's not use cigarettes as a crutch either for mental illness or other addictions. And to ask them to kick two addictions at once is probably more than I want to do. I'm also concerned about the tanks. So I think we need to review the data from Dr. Polanski that indicates what will happen when they call us home for adults and some and also Dr. Go-Go with the name backwards. I'm sorry. I'm Charlie Vassler and the data that he had on what happens to the adults and the transition that occurs either they quit or they continue smoking tiny cigarettes. So overall I think there is evidence that the limiting access to these products will... There is also evidence that drinking lots of vodka is not good for you but you can buy strawberry shortcake flavored vodka and you can buy Boone's farm. I know there was a lot of concern. And adults have a right to make their own decisions knowing the risks and that's my concern. When do we step over the line into the business? Yeah, I've never been worried because I've never been worried about this. I should have actually had four years I've been here and what you can have articulated is that the mind to thinking but adults can, they can still buy anything that's not flavored. They can buy a baking product that's not flavored but can buy cigarettes that are not flavored. So anyway, yes, I understand exactly what you mean. I think we need to do a vote. So let's... The current line which is Dennis brought us the changes that Dennis brought us are we okay with those changes? And then we will have some time to have the broader discussion about the bill as we go forward and economic development is also doing an overview of the bill and so they may have some recommendations. I don't know what they will be. So, on just the yellow. That's cool. The yellow is good. The yellow is fine. The yellow is fine. I will fix up that. I'm going to go and talk to my handi-smoke. I think you need to go do that. Okay, alright. I'm going to go into room 11-2. I've sent a lot of signals that I'm supportive of the bill and my concern has always been with the kids. And my sense is I really want to somehow separate the kids from the adults on this because I mean I do think if freedom means anything it means it includes the right and I think bad decisions. It's not for us to decide. Even if it is a bad decision and I want to give notice on that because I don't want to suddenly pull the rug out from people who I've really given reason to think I'm going their way because I kind of was. My inner libertarian has come out here but I really do want to ban this for the kids and I'm not sure how we do that. So what we do know is when we went to 21 we had an escalation in access to the menthol. We also do know that the FDA in 2009 did not do its job and has left loopholes, a lot of loopholes in one of which is menthol. So you can see where I am on this. So I think and we will not be doing anything different from what's the state of the message. Menthol on babes is fine. We're going to have some yummy good menthol tobacco. If it's out there I think they're going to go to hemp and they're going to go to marijuana and they'll find something new. Those are something else to deal with. Yes. So I will say this is where we're going to begin a conversation. So I would like for you as I started reading through the testimony that we had on all of this and sorting out what happens to adults and if you're concerned as adults what happens to adults and how much do you want to pay for the cardiovascular events that go on or the emphysema goes on because of access to menthol and then what is the data related to quitting when menthol is not available because we passed on that data. A reluctance to have the government intervene in these decisions does not mean that you approve the decision. I mean remember way back when there was the whole issue. Our job here is to decide what our decision is on this bill and on the issue as it relates to flavors I think we all agree on electronic and the vaping pieces and the sumbling block I have is if you've smoked for 40 years and you're addicted and it's a different place for me, those people then and I want to do everything I can to get people to get them to not have them in a position to get started. So we'll come back to this. And to know that there are people out there who have smoked for 40 years and they're on non-flavors. They're on non-flavors and they're still smoking and some of them quit and some of them start to feel the airways That's a couple things I know that you were bringing up the relationship between having flavored alcohol products and so on but let's just remember that right now we have state-run liquor stores that keep all that stuff secure. There are national laws regarding the amount of alcohol proof contained in those alcohols. We don't have anything like that for nicotine and FDA is the one responsible for doing that. So to draw that analogy which I know that the tobacco companies have done is probably not the best, most concrete analogy. You're making my argument on why we should have a regulated market for kids. Well, for which? Yeah, I know. Why not take the money you're putting in the health department to get the message? Well that's what we're supposed to be doing with it, right? At least when the bill left the Senate it was going into prevention and law enforcement and we weren't getting any. So anyway, I just wanted to bring that point up and then I would suggest you look at Andrea Galanti's data as well as Dr. Kogo's data about adults and children and when the high points of menthol cigarettes occur that would aid. So should we consider breaking the amount of things instead? Well, yeah. Should we become the local FDA? You know how much that would cost? I mean this is the problem. We're being held hostage to an irresponsible federal government. In 2009 they were inundated with a tobacco lobby that just changed everything and now we're making believe that it's the right thing to do. Okay, so my turn. Alright, so the people are waiting to come in that door at 11.45 but we're going to start before they get here to listen to you and we're thrilled that you're here. So do you want to come up together or do you want to speak separately? I think we can do it separately. I'll come up and I'll give the overview of the presentation that we had and Amy is going to talk about specifically how the program affects your school and the important aspect of it. Okay, so why don't you come up? Jennifer? Sarah. And we'll introduce ourselves so you know who's who. Great, thank you. And Cummings, right here in Washington County. Great, thank you. Rich Westman out for the William County. Jenny Glyons, Jenny County. Debbie Ingram also, Jenny County. Dick Laquana, Windsor County Senate District. Wonderful, thank you. Sarah Kleinman, I'm with UBM Extension. I'm the director of 4-H family and farm worker education programs includes migrant education and a portfolio of different programs that build youth and family skills. So thank you for having us. We're here. I didn't know that everything was going on today about they being an e-cigarettes. Oh, that I know but this is really apricot that we're here today to talk about our program called Prosper which is, and you all have, I believe, a PowerPoint presentation. Prosper is an evidence-based partnership model that facilitates evidence-based prevention, drug and alcohol prevention programs in schools and in communities. It was developed initially through Iowa State and Penn State as a partnership and the intent is that you build a very intentional community team with a strong partnership between Extension, the Land Grant College and a school in a given community and the community team ultimately makes decisions about which evidence-based programs. There's a family program that targets fifth and sixth graders and then it's followed up with an in-school program for seventh graders, both of which build strong families and protective factors for both the family function, the family unit, as well as the youth. We have been doing this since 2012. Extension was approached by some other Land Grants across the country as a state that was ready to deploy. They looked at a variety of factors, part of it being the world nature, part of it the economic breakup of our state and then other data and statistics and was determined that Vermont is a state that should try this and it's been incredibly successful. It is not a very cheap program. It costs about $30,000 to implement in a given community and we have been able to apply for a number of different grants. So we're running it currently in, let's look at my map. We have three sites that have been established since about 2012. We have two new sites that are just getting up and running and we're looking for one more location given the funding. We have a large USDA grant, actually two of them called the CIFAR grant, Children, Youth and Families at Risk, that funds the majority of our efforts. Children's Trust Fund funds a site in Camels Hunt Middle School in Richmond. Of course the CIFAR, one of the CIFAR sites is up in Linden that Amy will speak about. We're up in Derby with some SAMHSA dollars that's passed through through Iowa State. That's a new effort. We are in Rutland Northeast Supervisor Union at Otter Valley. I'm forgetting one. Camels Hunt Linden. I'm sorry, I've got my map right in front of me, but I did not wear my glasses. So through there. And we are trying to intentionally target up in the Northeast Kingdom. And St. John's Day, thank you. That's one of our newest sites as well. So ultimately, and I'm on page two now, you all know that the opioid crisis is in the news. The youth risk behavior survey data just came out for 2019. We might be seeing a drop in alcohol and drug use, but we are seeing an increase in vaping and we're seeing an increase in mental health issues. And we know that mental health is often a link and tied to substance use and abuse. And then I'm also aware of the Vermont Youth Survey that Vermont After School is leading and the data that has come from those, that research study is a direct link to what YRBS is telling us as well as the information that we're seeing. Ultimately, that we need to provide solid youth engagement opportunities and we need to provide protective programs that build protective factors and build connectedness in schools. And that's exactly what Prosper is doing. On the third slide I have, if you're familiar with UVM Extension, for many years we have our 4-H program through positive youth development opportunities for kids all across the state in a variety of ways. We also have some family skill building. We run a program called Coping with Separation and Divorce and there's a variety of other family opportunities. Rarely have we moved into the substance abuse prevention world or behavioral health, but if you take that aspect of it through positive youth development and through protective factor development and you merge it with the work that Extension has been doing with community partners and with schools, you really get this incredible partnership that's called Prosper. And again, it's an evidence-based delivery so we're intentional about how we build the team and the evaluation that we do and the attention that we give the team while we're delivering these particular programs. Ultimately, Prosper builds connectedness in a community because it brings families together, both high functioning and lower functioning families. They come together for a meal, they have child care available, we try to take away any barrier possible in relation to culture strengthening families. And these parents have some time on their own, the youth have time on their own and then they come together for opportunity where the family unit learns, they build values, they do some activities together to really try to reinforce limits and behaviors and commonalities that are important to the family. On the fourth slide, you can see what the evidence-based partnership model and ultimately Prosper has two goals. There's a goal about delivering the program and then again, there's a goal about the team. I'll get to another slide that talks about the return on the investment, but what's different about Prosper is again, this intentionality to the team. There are many coalitions and many amazing work being done where evidence-based programs are being delivered in schools or in standalone community spaces. But again, the difference here is that we make sure that everybody feels value that's a part of this community team, that there's a role to play and it tends to sustain itself a lot longer than just a standalone evidence-based program. I had been participating on the Governor's Opioid Coordinating Council prior to the report and the recommendations being developed and everything that Prosper is doing was recommended there. We are a primary prevention program. There is a link between stress and substance use. We are promoting youth and community connections and of course the wellness and health in schools because of the strong connection to the school unit is happening here in Prosper. I will say since the council was disbanded and I know that there was a new act that created a new sort of governing body I don't know what's happening anymore and so that's kind of a standalone question that I have now. I'm not connected to the work that's being done and so I am curious about how people learn about it. We need to connect you with them. That would be thing to do. Yeah, it was functioning really, really well and it could still be functioning really well but I had the information being released from this new entity. I'm not sure where that goes They're getting organized. They've just hired a manager and so I don't know what outreach they've done to organizations that they've worked with previously but we'll be following up on that and I'm glad you mentioned it. Thank you, that's helpful. So on the next slide here's some of the data that comes out of Prosper. There's a host of if you follow the two programs the fidelity because it is evidence-based you're guaranteed to get certain results and so we know youth in this particular program they're better at problem solving they're less likely to get into trouble or hang out with classmates that get into trouble. Prosper communities have a positive peer pressure effect so even if you're not a direct participant in the programs that we deliver ultimately community members are going to benefit because you'll start to have that positive peer pressure about not engaging in particular risky behaviors such as vaping and so you'll see communities are better off. Again the two programs the family program is strengthening families it's out of Iowa State and then we use Bopin's life skill which is an in-school program most of the schools will deliver it during guidance class or health class and all seventh graders receive that particular benefit. There is also if you look at the next slide you can see that Prosper communities are doing better off both where it comes to opioid misuse as well as drug, specifically drug use so there is a direct correlation having the Prosper interventions and not and then in the documents that I share previously there's much more evidence in specific research but we've been running this since 2012 we've reached over 12,000 youth in fifth and seventh grades plus their families there's a 960 return on investment for every dollar and that's based upon the number of youth that are no longer engaging perhaps in the judicial system or in hospitals or in treatment centers so it is incredibly impactful we also know that for every 100 youth in a Prosper community, 21 of them are less likely to misuse opioids so there is a very impactful positive effect of this what else can I tell you I have 100% of participants learn some sort of behavior change they know how to communicate better with their youth people are emphasizing empathy is increasing from parent to youth which helps to reduce anxiety levels and mental health and just family functioning which of course is a trickle effect and I'm going to turn it over to Amy who can share specific examples so on your last slide you say reach over 1200 fifths sorry yes no it is 1200 it is 1200 alright good I'm Amy Gale at Linden town school which is up in the northeastern corner of the state in Lindenville and I've been principal there for 11 years and was there when Prosper first came to our school we're a high poverty school typically between 55 and 65 of our student population 500 students are on free and reduced lunch sometimes as high as 70% of our students are on free and reduced lunch and I'm just going to tell you some stories about some families that have participated in Prosper when we started with Prosper we decided to implement it as part of the step up from coming from 5th grade into 6th grade which in our school students move up to the next floor we're 6th, 7th and 8th so we call it step up and Prosper and we encourage all of the families and students that are in 5th grade going into 6th grade to participate in that for them to come and learn about it and sign up but it's totally volunteer but we always have a good number of students and their families who come typically we run two sessions in the fall so I'm going to tell you about and I'm changing names here I'm going to tell you about Julia who came to Prosper and she came with her grandmother because her mom is an addict and she was no longer able to care for Julia and her two sisters one who wasn't infant but Julia was moving into 6th grade and so Graham and Julia came to Prosper they completed all of the sessions they participated in that it was a great experience Julia comes from a different difficult family situation but she has some real leadership opportunities and characteristics and she's been able to participate fully and to be a student leader not only in the program but also as she went through 6th, 7th and 8th grade in our building and now is off into high school Graham participated two years later with the next youngest sister and this time mom was able to come to some of those sessions with them because she's working on being in rehab and getting her life back together and so we see that family who are going through very difficult struggles able to come to those sessions to get their dinner, to get some new learning and to practice it in their home which has some real challenges I'll tell you the story of another student this student I'll call Caleb Caleb was newly reunited with his dad he had been living in a different part of the state with a grandfather who was providing care came to live with dad so new school, new town, 6th grade difficult time to start new but Caleb and his dad came to prosper and through that they were able to connect with other parents Caleb was able to join the ball team because there was a parent at prosper who said I'll pick him up, dad was working not able to provide transportation so able to make connections with other school students as well as community members who helped them to feel welcomed into the community and have a better chance of success and through that program to learn some of the skills as a dad reunited newly with his son to help them talk about important issues a third family that I'll tell you about is Jamie and Jamie and his mom came to prosper Jamie was one of those kind of bad boy kids getting into trouble argumentative with teachers, lots of challenges at home as well as at school and I just want to tell you that they completed the prosper program Jamie's mom actually joined our community team because she was so profoundly affected and felt like their family were profoundly affected by participating in prosper and she became part of our community team coming to the meetings and offering a perspective of a parent who'd been through the program and tearfully told us about how with Jamie getting in trouble at school now they were able to talk about those issues instead of him just acting out about them so they gained some communication tools to be able to talk about tough stuff that was happening and that's part of how we promote the program to parents. We see parents from all socioeconomic levels participate in the program because the commonality that they have is that we're entering those middle school years we're entering those teen years that we know can be tumultuous and can be very you know can expose kids to risks that they haven't had before and also at times when they have more freedom than they've had before so to enough the school community through the prosper program sort of wrap around them and help the students to learn you know some skills and some of the behaviors that are going to help them stay away from those harmful things and to help the parents to learn that and then to bring them back at the end of the evening to practice that together in fun and playful ways so that they can go off with skills to help them navigate those difficult times that can come through those middle school years. One part of the program that last session is to have a student panel and typically we are inviting high schoolers that have graduated the program and you know four and five years ago they went through Prosper to come back and talk to the students that are about to graduate Prosper the sixth graders and we hear them telling these sixth graders the things that they learned in Prosper that you know sort of like unfolded especially as they went off to high school and they had some tools in their toolbox to be able to navigate those things and they had some relationship and communication skills with their parents to be able to talk about those things so it's been a very powerful program in our school our school personnel our teachers our students counselors our school nurse have all been instrumental because they've taken the training to be the facilitators for that and it has just helped to seal the connections between students, parents and school community so that you know when difficulties arise we are we're facing those as partners so it's been fabulous at our school terrific I understand the issues you address and I understand some of the results you've got I'm not clear on what the program itself actually involved what happens when someone participates so when they participate as Sarah said we feed them dinner so we have sort of a communal dinner together we provide child care if you need to bring your younger siblings and then we have facilitators that work with the youth let's say we're talking about rules and boundaries so the facilitators go off with the group of youth and they do some activities they have some discussion about rules and boundaries like what's the value of them when do you fuck against them you know why would your parents be making rules and boundaries why would the school be doing that and they also have a separate session different facilitators at the same time working with the parents around rules and boundaries and parents get to sit around and say so what do you do about bedtime now that they're in sixth grade or what do you do when they're asked to a friend's house and you don't know that friend and the facilitator is presenting information and doing role plays and those kinds of things so parents get to communicate with each other and get some new learning from the facilitator and then we bring them back together after those concurrent sessions are happening we bring the children back with their parents and we do some activities together that again help them maybe role play something play a game together do some kind of activity to help facilitate the just making real what they just learned over here as they practice that together as parent and child or grandparent and child it's a seven week session so graduation is technically provided if you attend five of the seven sessions and that's the family program and typically about 20% of the school grade population would participate in the family program and then the following year in seventh grade all students in seventh grade participate in another protective factor for social building curriculum as well one of the things that we started after we had done Prosper, I mean I sounded like a great program but we're never going to get people to come seven weeks in a row just not going to happen people don't do that but they did come seven weeks in a row and we quickly realized that we needed to have kind of a reunion and so typically in the spring we will have an evening where parents and kids are invited to come back and we were blown away with how many showed up for that and the kids even now are clamoring for when are we doing the reunion we need to do a reunion so they really it's a meaningful time for them and they come back they crave more they love to come back together with their parents one of the things that we consistently hear from parents is it was so nice to have something to do with just Johnny or just Susie because it's for them and the younger children are taken somewhere else for childcare and it really helps parents and kids to bond in a new way over really meaningful topics yeah well I sound fabulous and your comment about people were going to come I was just thinking sometimes these sorts of programs are kind of preaching to the choir because the people who are already engaged in that sort of thing are the ones who come but you found that people who could really benefit a lot from it also yeah and the other thing that sometimes happens you get a group of people and then those who maybe have stronger families already don't come so you know you've got a divide there but we have really found that this because of that commonality of every kid is going through middle school every kid is going through those tumultuous teenage years and every parent is kind of like okay what's coming and that sort of brings everybody together to sit around a table with people that you maybe not associate with but you're all talking about really critical issues because you love your kids and you want the best for them so we have found that it crosses those socioeconomic lines in really wonderful ways and make some relationships that can last over you know the next three years as their kids go through middle school together correct and so the funding for your program this probably has to be the last question as our time is going over but the funding is the $30,000 that you indicated is that something that the school district puts in or is it a grant from the extension initially it all came from grants at this point I have over the years of the success of the program snuck a little into my budget so that like this next year's budget $7,000 is in there to promote you know to support the program yeah, terrific thank you, thanks for your good work too thank you this links in with a lot of the stuff that we've been doing this day with the after school program and on the prevention council so when the prevention council folks come in we'll make sure that we talk about Prosper and what's going on you link with them so that would be great, thank you so much