 And you can see, there we go. And I'm not quite done with Chris and Deborah. I'm just about there, but not fully done with that one. So which order do you want to talk about them in? And now I've lost you. Is that me? I heard a little snippet of you. Maybe my phone would be more reliable. Do you mind if I call in that way? None at all. Now I hear you. I'll do that real quick. There we go. Hi. Cool. Technical difficulties here. OK. Here we go. So you said you're so completing the Chris and Deborah conversation. But I've got a bunch of stuff on them, so I'm happy to talk about it. I feel like there's just going to be a little bit more added to the conversation, but it was very, it was really geeky. Like, yeah, it was sort of a conversation between alpha geeks, it was interesting. Yeah, I know I think that not being especially familiar with the AI field, it felt like I wanted to have a to-do list of all of the articles that they mentioned to read and research papers before I could really re-listen to the conversation. Even though I understood the concepts behind it, and it was very fascinating, especially the idea that's around the feet of AI as a system, it wasn't being treated with regulation like software or even gave the example of cars would be. And so saying like, OK, we might not know how to regulate this. It's not going to look like how we regulate other things. But what is the structure for it? Because no regulation is not a solution. And the data is not just data. Data is still selective and tells the story. So I found that part really fascinating as a concept, even though I would love to read all the articles and research papers they mentioned in support of Fox. And also the thought that a car doesn't inherently capture your personal data. A car is just a car. In the worst of cases, if you have GPS, it tells you what addresses you stopped at. That's it. And maybe modern cars have open microphones and they're spying on us. But really, the degree of personal data that we're divulging inside of Facebook and Google is crazy. And I think Facebook is more than Google because Google is like, well, maybe you're Gmail, but they're not really looking at your messages. But I just learned recently that there's such a thing as a lawsuit for who searched for these terms. Sorry, not a lawsuit. It's a subpoena. So Google can be served by, I don't know who has the rights to do this, but law enforcement agencies can serve Google with a subpoena that says, give us the IDs of all the, I think the IDs, I'm not sure, of all the people who search for these particular terms. Wow. Not scary to me because I'm curious about something that you don't know about even if you're not. They wind up on the I list. Yeah. Yeah. So that was one of the kinds of implications that I think are really interesting here that they're talking about. And I actually went and found most but not all of the papers they mentioned and I didn't read them. These are really geeky papers. I mean, but I connected them into the brain. So I kind of have the nexus of things that they're talking about in a way. Yeah. And then you're on your phone right now, right? So you probably can't see text from my brain if I share screen. You're breaking up on me again. My computer talking. I don't know, can you hear me now? Yes. Now you're clear, but that last stretch was bumpy, bumpy. I didn't say too much. OK, oh, there you go. OK, so now you can watch it on your other device. Cool. Record progress. Good. OK, perfect. Cool. So are you seeing what I'm sharing now? Let me see. Can you hear me now? Yes. OK, I turned off my cellular. Maybe it's the Wi-Fi stronger. Well, that's probably true actually. Yeah. OK, I'm looking at your brain. OK, good. So I put in a bunch of things like no part of a car is derivative of human experience, which data set you choose matters, the training system's on. But machine learning engineers often use the data that is most easily available, which I need to connect to that thought. It's really hard to recall a bad hammer, but you can just turn off an API. That was interesting. And then up here, they mentioned a paper called Critique and Contribute. That's this one. Then there's the 1993 paper called Greater or Lesson Statistics by the guy who was at Bell Labs. And they started with algorithmic bias and a bunch of things around that, which are really interesting as well. So I did not know about third party AI algorithm audits. So everything here is new. This is I knew about software audits kind of. I knew about algorithmic bias. But I didn't know that there were third party firms that were starting to do an audit. That was really interesting. Yeah, I thought that was so fascinating. I put that in. And then one thing I know, because I have some background in AI, I've never been a coder, but I used to be an analyst in the field. The problem is that neural networks, so to brutally oversimplify, there's a bunch of artificial intelligence that has rules that look like English. So 5% of the time when somebody shows up with sniffles and a cough, but if they also have this other symptom, you might have tuberculosis. That those are rules. Neural networks are just trained on data sets. And they don't actually have rules inside. So when they make a recommendation, all they're doing is pattern matching. And they can't tell you why. And worse, if the data is full of bias, like, hey, we're going to feed it a bunch of lending data from some cities. Well, if those cities are woodlining or if those cities included bias against minorities for lending, then guess what the algorithm is going to do, right? The pattern is going to replicate the bias that humans already exhibit every day in systemic bias. Basically, systemic racism and all those things just show up in the data. So that's interesting. And I think I'm going to pursue that when I story thread this. I'm going to talk about that some. Yeah, I thought that was very fascinating when Deborah said she said it's something around the around the lines of there's rather than considering which data would actually best support this decision, you're just pulling the data that's available or what has been the standard thus far. And so not thinking about could this data have bias? And that was such a strange eye when Chris said, yeah, like the minds years ago was just its data. It can't have bias like its fact and to think it's still in the hands of people. It's not even the facts are recorded or formed by people. So and also the people sometimes have bias. So the place I think I was going to start because they started with they started kind of with some of like it's not camera bias, but image like a lot of image processing algorithms don't perceive black faces well. And that's the problem. And that kind of bubbled up a couple of years ago. But the thing I was going to show people is that in the world of image processing, the default, the standard image that they moved that they moved around is this one. This is a Playboy Playmate image. Her name is Lena. Her name is Lena, actually. And her name is actually Lena Söderberg. This is a standard test image. And this was when people were when researchers, almost all men were doing image compression. That's the image they were working with just to show you like what a boys club this was kind of forever. And so there's clearly bias baked into lots of different places, lots of different corners of what's happening here. Yeah. And then I've got this connected to how can we keep AI from being a threat? Which is kind of the bigger the bigger piece of this. And then that could also bridge over to one of the so I've got the thought about what are the common threads across the different conversations across these different sessions. So here's how I've been storing the common themes across these sessions. Hold on a sec. There we go. So deep listening, coping with crises, algorithmic bias, healing from trauma. And what should we do right now to create a better future? These are the threads that I've got so far. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that feels that feels really that feels very true to a lot of the different conversations that we listen to. And it's I found that another another interesting pattern I saw throughout I was reading through some of my different notes from from talks. And it was kind of I think because of the the doom, the like the impending feeling of midnight, there was this conversation around like staying in motion and being in motion to not be stuck and to keep energy flowing, not just through us for healing and like things like dealing with trauma. But it was also this like if we're in motion, at least change will happen versus feeling stagnant or stuck or depressed or things like that. So that kind of motion of energy. And I don't know if you saw my Tracy Ryan's map, but it was the water currents through the ocean system, the hot and cold currents. And that idea not just of like his conversation of Qi and moving energy through the body and processing out of trauma, but also it was like the the way to find hope or or a glimpse of hope was was in processing, slowing down processing personally. It ties into the deep listening because it's all about kind of how do we slow down our systems to actually be aware of what we're doing and how we're acting and how we move forward. And that even feels relevant to the Chris and Deborah conversation around like how do we slow down and see what harm is the system doing? How do we regulate it? How do we move forward in a better, more thoughtful way? But that thoughtfulness and that idea of deep listening and dealing with trauma, it all is like looking inward and facing ourselves before we can help others, which it's so much easier to problem solve for other people. But I think, yeah, you're going to have even more difficulty with finding true solutions and listening to others if you aren't listening to yourself. I also just passed the part in the Chris and Deborah conversation where they talked about how these algorithms are always in motion as well. And so, if you're in an accident, we can figure out which model Pinto you were in and there's like hundreds of thousands of that model Pinto. But here it's like the algorithm is always updating, always changing and may even in fact be very custom to you because of your own variables and all that. And so figuring out what to fix and when you make a claim about something that broke, oh yeah, but we fixed that in Rev, two Revs back. So how do you find it? How do you fix it? Who are you going to sue for what part is really interesting? But then also just back to your theme of motion, I think there's like eight different kinds of motion that have come up in these different talks, right? Including kind of in the Buddhist session more about the like the Pasana, what happens when you stop all motion and when you try to slow your brain down and what shows up there, right? That was really interesting. And I think that ties in perfectly with the idea of deep listening because what you're doing in that you're intentionally pausing motion to sit still for a set number of hours, but by sub-doing or by halting one act like physical action or even speaking, you're, I feel like you're becoming more tuned to others. And so that brings up kind of all this internal motion, which is why we often run into high speed to avoid that internal motion. So yeah, I thought that that was really fascinating because that it was a pause, but it's actually just activating a different motion within us, which can truly lead towards some of that healing and fresh perspective and processing of things. But the one reason we avoid that is because, as you said, you're literally taking everything out of the closet and trying to just put back the good things, but it's like the closet falls in on you when you slow down that much, you know, everything is out. And, but yeah, I think that the interesting thing of this, especially that conversation left me with was that so much of the work is so often we're not doing the internal work before trying to help others. And that sort of thing. Yeah, absolutely. And that, and that kind of felt like some of the Roblox that Virginia was running into because people were just pushing their ideas so much, they couldn't pause and listen. But I think if you pause and listen, then you can kind of tell maybe the core of some of these ideas is actually the same and we're just going about them different ways. But it is complicated when you bring in people with all different opinions and thoughts. So yeah, what were some of the other types of motion that stood out to you? So what you just said reminded me of my old boss, Esther Dyson. So Vanity Fair did a piece on her once, a profile of her and they interviewed me for it and they quoted me as describing her kind of as a shark. And I didn't think like Shark Tank and that was before Shark Tank, I think even was a thing. Yeah. What I meant was Esther was in perpetual motion and really couldn't stop. She booked her days where she didn't drive. So she always would approach somebody to drive her from or to airports and she was always traveling. And so those were briefings. Like somebody would offer to pick like, okay, good. I'll take the ride out to DFW and then I'll get to pitch my startup. But her days were very, very tightly booked. And then she, you know, she'd booked time to write a piece and she had this incredible focus. But it felt like if she ever paused for introspection, she wouldn't like that. So she didn't make room for that, I think on purpose. There's a piece of that, that accompanies what you were just talking about. And I thank you for reminding me of the metaphor of pulling everything out of the closet and then putting back in only the things you want. That was, that was special. Yeah. And then there's also all this other, there's also this general motion that changes happening so fast that we're in an era where everything is moving so quickly. That, you know, do you need to run fast to keep up. And April just wrote a book where the first of her eight superpowers is called run slower. And she quotes, she quotes the Navy SEAL saying slow as smooth, smooth as fast. Right. And one of the, and in terms of the dangers to our democracy right now, one of the bright spots for me is what's called a deep canvassing. Have you heard of deep canvassing? Yes. Yes. You mentioned this earlier. Yeah. So Stacey Abrams and others are basically saying, Hey, don't just knock on the door and leave a pamphlet and like, like ask who you're voting for, slow down and have like a 45 minute conversation. And that's much more likely to change somebody's mind, which is great because it, because relationships and trust building to actually take time. And so there's this weird, there's this weird feeling I have that things are really, really, really urgent that we don't have a lot of time left on the midnight clock. Talk if you talk to people who are way deep down the climate rabbit hole. They will tell you that this thing is hard to turn and may not be turnable, et cetera. Yeah. And, and then I think, wow. Okay, good. That means we have to do something fast and a lot of it. But if it involves humans, chances are we have to do that slowly. Yeah. Right. If it involves putting iron filings in the ocean or sulfur particles or sodium particles in the atmosphere, fund it, put it up there and try not to destroy the earth. You can do that at the pace of engineering. But anything that involves humans and voting and whatnot is just going to have to slow down in the face of crisis. And that's going to be really, really hard. Yeah. That's going to be super hard. I know, especially when some of the population has such a sense of urgency around it. Absolutely. I know what the exacted. What it was in Italian, but have you heard the phrase? It means make haste. That reminded me. You were saying just a minute ago with that idea of like, how do we. Yeah. How do we keep pace and also be thoughtful? Exactly. I think so. Exactly. Yeah, I feel like that's that idea of. I think it, I think the, the pasana and the like sitting meditating and slowing down also. In that conversation, it was so fascinating how they were saying like so much of that actually like reminds us that we're not alone and shows our connectedness. When we slowed down and what, I mean, not just through like Tracy's vision of his mother, but even through healing with trauma and really working through things that brother fulfillment was talking about. But I feel like that idea of. When we're running at such a speed, we can feel really alone. Because. Because there isn't that time to pause. And you feel alone in your, in your rush or in your speed of what you're doing. So. It's interesting that actually in slowing down, even though we're in. A mid night crisis state. Is probably the best way to actually truly connect, which resonates with the deep canvassing and everything as well. Yeah, it's so interesting to figure out how, what does that look like on such a big scale, especially around the climate. Yeah. And when you're, when you're in motion quickly, when you're moving fast, when you're in motion for a while, when you're in motion, when you're moving fast because everything's blurry, you're hard to pin down, like all other things are hard, harder to do. So. Yeah. The thought of how each, well, some talks didn't directly discuss midnight as a topic. hopeful about it, but some, some did and thought of it more as like a new beginning, but I really resonated with the Justin Ida conversation around it because it was like this time zero like this. It could be the beginning, but it's also kind of feels like the end. It's just darkness and you're not sure when the light is going to come but you think it will come and that is a believing that the light that the light is coming feels abstract and like a willful exercise. It's so fascinating because then thinking about that as the first talk that we listen to, and then the Tracy and Aaron talk was kind of a practice of a willful exercise to be present and take note of those things so it was neat to see some of those overlaps and people who are like, their discussions were actually about very different topics. You're reminding me also, you just said you, you know, you don't know if the light is coming you're kind of like, hoping the light. The light right now. Exactly. As the light as the sun is setting on you. But only today, only today this is not the best metaphor. It makes me think also of the piece that I was story threading in about the new story like we're missing a new story. And one of the things people light is a hopeful story. Yeah, right. And part of the problem here is that we're missing. It's not a uniform story but, but a reasonable story that paints a future that we might actually be able to like survive into together and thrive in a few sounds a little bit better than, than we expect or then then realistically people are coming now. I'm, I'm, I'm perpetually interested in what are the stories people are offering that do engage that kind of hope. And in contrast, the different kinds of crazy stories that people are weaving that are destroying all of us like you know like that. There's a really good article. I don't remember if I mentioned it in one of our calls but Q and on a guy wrote a gamer game designer wrote a really nice piece that said, is Q and on an alternate reality game. And if you look at Q and on there's a mysterious host who keeps dropping messages, which have plots and things to do and then and then it's like, holy bean dip it looks just like me. Right. Yeah, except this is this is a life and death ARG that's actually affected a whole bunch of people and shifted the behavior dramatically. Right. Yeah, that's really really interesting because that's a story to it's a it's a set of nested stories that are busy, like causing chaos in the world. Yeah. I know. Yeah, the stories we tell are important. And that's what I think I think in the version e conversation I think I was looking for and we discussed this earlier but looking for like a new direction or a different approach or next step towards how do we bring people together over climate change and actually take action. And I think that she was her approach felt much like the make case slowly like she had, she had great hope that something that change could happen quickly once the story is agreed upon. And the, once the story is a wet is vocalized in a way that people can connect to grasp on to feel a part of, and in so sometimes it's just you want there to just be one quickly and it's like how do we find the right one before we're even approaching the public with it which is so, so alter to so much of our every idea you have you put online immediately mindset right. So that like slowing down and thoughtfulness, but also with a sense of urgency is just it feels and in pole with each other you know. I also felt like vision the. And I may have this wrong but it felt like her audience or her posse or her the circles she was busy thinking about these important issues with were all policy abstract level. They were, they were kind of in this policy dance this long term policy dance that wasn't yet resolving things that is like having a nice week this weekend cop 26 and Glasgow. But, but that that wasn't the, the native story that ordinary people are going to pick up and use and do right. She felt to me like she was operating a couple levels or layers removed from normal people's lives and stories. Yeah. Yeah, but it felt like it was a building block, like that was all of these people who are maybe running a lot of the organizations that are going to be involved in some of the major steps of climate change mitigation is is kind of where the story needs to start and then we can explain how everyday action is involved in that. But I don't know. Yeah, those bigger, the bigger concepts like that are just so fascinating because it's everyone is like trying to approach it in their own capacity and how they can and what makes me think of the Tatiana and Deanna conversation with their ideas of, well, we are living in one world, even though we're trying to build an aspire to a better world. But there is this push and pull where we can't totally step in or out of one and it's not just they mentioned cowardice but I don't think it's as much cowardice as like one system we're actually most of the world is functioning in. And it's like being an early adapter. So it's, there is going to be tension just how do you have a healthy tension where you are moving forward and not staying in a system that is not, is not progressive working. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking at, I'm looking at the quotes I wrote down from their session. We don't know as humans where to put our collective trust. Yeah, the idea of trust was really fascinating and trust almost has a currency that that we individually have the highest value of so like there's so to think about every so much of what we're advertising and in life is actually like they're asking for our trust and it's our choice what we're giving our trust to. Yeah, I thought I don't really know where I was going with that thought but I just thought that that idea was really fascinating as trust as a currency that we actually hold the power to you because I think sometimes saying like, well, but if we have more power than we ever think and sometimes I feel like my only power is voting and recycling. And I'm like, what, what is what else is there to do and I, and I think thinking about it in that way. Like, how do I, it is often challenging but how do I, how am I proactive in like every decision that I'm making is actually supporting a company and a cause and things like that and integrating that more that thought pattern more fluidly into every chance. And I think in that session Tatiana says, Hey, there's a whole bunch of people out there who don't trust big pharma and don't trust big government. And here they both come and saying trust us, you must do this. And that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't go over very well that that kind of stock me. And then, and then back to the post and Tracy and all that. A lot of that was about trusting yourself. Finding your way back to things you could trust in you or about you, something like that. Yeah. Yeah, and now that was really fascinating because brother fulfillment Aaron Solomon who was speaking with Tracy, he, his conversation about stepping from behind the robes and his position as a monk was really fascinating because he. He said that I need to be known for my action, rather than for the symbol that I represent. And I think, and he made a good point to say like, we often need a physical representation of something that we're aspiring for, or a mindset, or vision of how we would like life to be, but being in that position he actually had to step out of it to like, for a simple term it's like practice what he preached you know like how do you actually just live and be known for the way that you live and that that call that leads into all the internal reflection that you're talking about to was there a piece in there that he thought that the saffron robes might misrepresent him as he became more of an activist. No, thank you. No, because a lot of his activism was in was when he was. Yeah, before he enrobed so well. And was aligned with it well with with being the Buddhist monk. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. He wasn't fully like nonviolent protest that they were doing when they were bringing it was, it was around climate change actually but bringing like the ship into Times Square and all of that and walking in handcuffs and, and he actually got arrested during that protest. But yeah I think that that that aligned with what he was passionate about as a person in the healthcare of our world and everything. But yeah I think the, the idea of stepping from behind the road was more of a personal step how do I, how do I just be known for what I believe rather than. Yeah, I thought I thought his story was really interesting. It was only touched on, you know in that first part of that conversation where he really spoke, but it was also around the idea of our. Our position and the way that we can help in the world and be show up for our own lives can shift so much right and have seasons. And I think that that shows a fluidity that some of that motion that we're talking about where you don't have to stay like locked into one identity. And then even in the item just conversation where you, you grieve even like expectations about yourself and who identities to then move into into others. It was interesting because I think a lot of people can get stuck in kind of a rigid, a rigid expectations and that actually is not only limiting to yourself but also the potential of who you can be and in his position of stepping into this role of not only relationship but kind of a whole new phase of life and also being in a position where he's surrounded by people not in a monastery and able to like to take a lot of his learning to process people through trauma. It's really fascinating. Yeah. And also, sometimes the rapper that you're in distracts people or turns people off. So, to reach more people. Yeah, stepping outside the robes, allowed him to be like a normal person. And, you know, yeah, people listen to normal people and people who will listen to a monk might actually listen to another human. Yeah. I know because we all have expectations of an assumptions and bias based in our own histories. Yeah, that was really fascinating thought. Cool. I also, I also felt like the idea of it has to do with the motion that we discussed earlier but the a the conversations around neuroplasticity I feel like that actually came up in a few different discussions. But I feel like it perfectly aligns with what we're what we're saying which is that that openness, the like willingness to process and work through things, which is deep listening is a part of in the rewiring being being open willing and even intentional to change. And with that. And that there is a hope in change because, because of the motion and the way that our bodies can heal and reconnect so I thought that idea of neuroplastic the neuroplasticity like popped up a few different and a few different conversations and that is interesting to be a common thread, but it does align with a lot of the other topics we've discussed. Me too. If we broaden it a tiny bit to be social neuroplasticity. Is that work well too because, because I think part of your knee looking for what are the what are the right messages to change us etc so this this kind of we're busy trying to figure out what to do next about these problems. We're trying to figure out what are the new patterns of behavior and belief. In a sense, and neuroplasticity is usually referencing one skull and one set of neurons, you know, trying to rewire. But here I think we're also like both like definitely the ones inside the skull but somehow also all these, all these other things and there's a there's a book I haven't finished reading that's a favorite or friend friend of mine. It's a handbook or the field guide to interpersonal neurobiology. And it's kind of about like what what happens to us electrochemically when we talk and when we're in relationship and when something. And it feels like we need to figure that out at a global scale. Yeah. I know how do we rewire before midnight or after midnight midnight so he happened. And then there's people. There's people like Jim Bandel who are saying hey, we need deep adaptation because we've already messed things up so badly. That is going to be far less hospitable than it has been so we need to do we need to take larger measures to make sure we survive and manage to, you know, goodbye. Yeah, and that's what that was a in kind of a, this is the end of civilization conversation that Doug rush cross mentioned. It was very much like what drastic next steps are, are what we need to do to move forward through this like, how do we deal with the the crisis of immigration and people being having to move across the world and country and who is going to take the people who are moving from uninhabitable spaces. And then also the idea of how do we move towards food sources and kind of recent ourselves in a way that will work for whatever is coming next. And I think that the, the resistance against change out of fear of it shifting normality is like the, the biggest roadblock, because because there's a comfort in rhythms that we're familiar with, but it's clear that that is that those rhythms are unsustainable so how do we shift our mindset personally and as you're saying socially to adjust for becoming dim. On a happier note. And we just really love our ruts and we love our familiarity right. Yeah. And part of the problem here, or part of the opportunity is reframing these new worlds as as positive as opportunities which is what Virginia did with her kids. They plan their next life, right. Yeah, involve them in the planning. You're like crowds, crowds were so playing for, for the future. Yeah, what, what do you want and how do we have what are our steps to get there. And I do think that the, I think that the hopeful aspect of this is the connectedness. And it is like, and I think that the shift from into like the globalist mindset that we've been in. In the, in the past time is just it's it in that way it's positive because there is still some very fierce nationalism of course, but the idea if we can view others with with care and or at least with an ownership over like global health and the people that the other people that live in the world. And I think that that actedness is how we actually move into any, any next phase of, of growth and future open a positive change so. Yeah. Yeah, one of my friends he's in a lot of OGM calls. He's doing a lot of what he calls positive cartography. And he's trying to bring people together to do that to draw maps of positive futures. That looks like and he's working kind of at all ages and all that he's, he's in Holland. So Northern Europe and all that but it's it's interesting it's and and you can see how drawing positive maps of a wish desired future might actually be helpful. Yeah, I know and I've actually I've actually done that in. Or had like therapist tell me to do that and done that in different stages of my life, life too when going through something difficult and feeling hopeless and saying, Okay, what are 10 positive futures and let's write. Let's write a short story let's write a paragraph about each one, because I think the sense of opportunity and the sense of like, there are forks in the road that lead to more forks in the road is because it's not. There's no change in path and unless I completely turn around, there's no changes coming up. And to remember that we are like in this forks path that will continue for key and there are continued opportunities is to shift and change and. I think that I think that's very fascinating I have the word Tim shell tattooed on my arm because it's around the power of choice from Steinbeck's book but, but it's also like every choice we make sets our life course a different direction so every day there's a way for that versus, we've made one decision and that's, that's where we're going and that sense of motion and positive motion is was a thread throughout all of these. So, such resonance I just had the conversation the sentences you just uttered, I just had that conversation an hour ago. So, about the process we make in our lives and you know, the fork yeah whatever it's really it's really cool. Repeating motion see these conversations are happening everywhere. It's true. October them. Midnight is in the air. Yeah. Oh, well, I've really enjoyed working through this process with you. Same here. Let's go look on the conversation boards and see how this is resonate with other people, because I think that a lot of these topics are so they are so communal and they are. As you said like so many people are thinking about the same things and we're just eager to to discuss and figure out what maybe what are those, what are the possible positive cartography features for ourselves. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, thank you for all this. This has been a gift. It's been. And just, just the chance to slow down and talk about the sessions afterward with you has been super helpful. Really great. Yeah. Yeah. Well thank you for putting up with the dogs and birds and other things in my current environment. So, there you go. That I know it sets early here. Okay, well I hope you have a good evening. And tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah, let's talk more. And then I'll definitely play into maybe meet up and have a conversation when I'm in Portland to sounds great. Okay. Thanks.