 Hello, buenas tardes a todos y todas, bienvenidos, bienvenidas. Hello everybody, thank you so much for being here this afternoon. For those who don't know me, my name is Ana Torres, I'm the Executive Director of Wikimedia Argentina. And this afternoon I'm going to be moderating and for the next 45 minutes this panel. Today we are going to be talking with four amazing women that are doing a fantastic work to address one of the more important issues on the Wikimedia movement, gender inequality in Wikipedia and the Wikimedia projects. We have all of the perspectives, I think, in this panel. That's what makes it more interesting if it's possible. We have the long-term Wikipedias, we have Foreigners' perspective and also we have the Affiliates' perspective. Let me introduce them. So, the first one is Rosy Stephenson, goodnight. She is the co-founder of Woman in Red and co-Wikimedia of the year in 2016. Come in. Just take a seat there. Next one, Eva Bond, Editor-in-Chief or Historiscan, Sweden's first woman history magazine. Sophie Jensen, a Wikimedia Sweden board member. And then we are going to have Lina Edimard. She is the communication specialist at the Swedish Ministry of Foreign Affairs and she's a key collaborator for the Wikicap campaign. She's currently running from one session to our session so she's going to be late for some minutes and she's going to be here shortly. First, before starting, I'm going to explain how this panel is going to be a structure. We are going to have two very important moments. The first one is of course we are going to talk with our panelists for the first 30 minutes and then during the last 15 minutes we are going to do something different. We want to turn the questions to you. We know that working on gender equity in Wikipedia and the Wikimedia project is something that a lot of you are currently doing in our movement so we want to hear from you. We want to hear what you are doing. We want to hear what your challenges are if you are doing something different and which are the lessons also that you can share with us. Before starting as well, I want to explain a little bit what this panel is called the Equal Edit. Currently, Historic Scan and Wikimedia Sweden, we are going to hear a little bit more from them but they are currently promoting a new editing campaign to address and to make Sweden History articles more gender equal in Wikipedia. Also it's a good opportunity to see it show us how partners and contributors, editors can come together and work for driving lasting changes on global goals as gender equity. So now let's start. I think that if I talk about gender inequality, gender inequality is a problem that happens all around the world but I think that as an example of its importance, global goal number five is about gender inequality. I think that the different societies, we have done a lot of progress but we are still facing a lot of challenges and also the Wikimedia movement is facing a lot of challenges. We are still facing a lot of challenges. So the first question, I want to make a more general question for you then we are going to go deep. What are you currently doing to address the gender equity in Wikipedia or more broadly? I am the co-founder of a community called Women in Red. Women in Red is a community in 25 different languages. It started in English and blossomed into 24 other communities. Our scope is to create more content about women on Wikipedia that includes women's biographies, women's works broadly construed, the paintings they painted, the sculptures they sculpted, the schools they founded, the conferences they convened and also women's issues, things like women's health, women's suffrage and so forth. So we have been active for four years. This is our four-year anniversary of this Wikimedia. We started at Wikimedia 2015 in Mexico City and 100,000 new articles later. Here I am, up on this stage, able to talk about it. That's impressive. I always say that for me it's a before and after. Women in Red was born in our movement. From your perspective, Eva, what are you currently doing, I guess, outside Wikimedia? I own and run Sweden's first women's history magazine. It's basically a modern and very gender-conscious history magazine that focuses on women and women's place in history, both well-known women and lesser well-known women. Sophie from Wikimedia Sweden has been in the conversation for so many years now. What are you doing? I mean, what are you currently thinking? I know that you both are partnering for a new campaign. What is this about? The Equal Edit is an initiative. I was involved in Wikigap last year, and I was mostly focused on writing more articles about women, but the Equal Edit is finding the missing parts in already existing articles. With the help of experts like Eva to find out what is missing and where can we find good sources to actually show that this is something that is missing and then make... In Sweden, it started with an editathon about women in Swedish history that Eva helped to prepare before. And that is also what I've been doing mostly regarding the gender gap thing. I've been organizing... I'm co-founder of a project, Finlige huvepersonen på Wikimedia. We have had weekly editathons for five and a half years now. And I've also organized Wikicamps for people identifying as women for four years. What's... You mentioned experts, right? What's the role that experts can play to support our work? I mean, I'm putting myself on an editor role. Why experts are important for our work today? Anyone can read an article on Wikipedia and think that, oh, this article is great. And it's only if you're an expert in the subject that you know what is missing in the article. So that's why we need the eyes of experts to find what is missing, I think. I'm from... I mean, Historica is a very... I mean, you do a very concrete thing, and I guess you're bringing the expertise to the equal edit campaign. I mean, you're writing articles or you're providing sources for them to be able to write articles. What's the role you feel that you can play within the Wikimedia movement as an expert perspective, from an expert perspective? Yeah, it's kind of what Sophie is saying. For me, it was a matter of reading the article on Swedish history, which is kind of like the starting point of this project or initiative, and just going through it and realizing how... Partly how very few women are actually mentioned by name, but also how the focus of the entire article is almost only on like sort of large political events and powerful men, and nowhere is there focus on female movements or workers' movements or labour movements or anything that's kind of the smaller things in history. So for me, it was just going through the page and looking at what can we put in to actually make it more closer to the actual truth of what happened. From your perspective, Rosie, do you feel this link between affiliates and strategic alliance or partners, strategic partners, is fundamental for making not just a more gender-equal Wikipedia, but also a more quality Wikipedia? I think this is really important, and I would even move it one step further to say that Women in Red facilitates five or six month-long events every month. Every August, we do an event called Indigenous Women, and knowing that I was coming to Equimania, I decided personally to focus on Sami women of Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Russia. And I thought I couldn't find a lot of sources in English language, but I'm pretty good with translation, especially using translation tools. And so I translated half a dozen, dozen of these articles, and then I found a really good source in English Wikipedia, in English language for one of these women, and I added it, and someone came along and said to me, Rosie, that really, it's in English, but it's a very poor article, and it doesn't get the facts right. And so they removed what was from English language, and we kept the sources that were in another language. So it goes to show you that the expertise is not just having an expert-expert, but someone who's expert in a language who can read Northern Sami. I can't, and my translation was fine, it was adequate, but adding an English source, which I thought would make the richer article, I was wrong. And so I have to rely on someone else who's an expert in their community, seemed to be helpful in this case. Yeah. Well, welcome, Lina. No. We are talking about the importance of bringing experts to, or partnering the Wikimedia affiliates with partners that experts and some topics that can help us address gender equity in Wikipedia. What's the role that the Swedish Embassy has played on this? Because we know that Wikicap has been a massive campaign, more than 60 embassies around the world have organized activities. A lot of content has been created. What's the role that you played, and why did you decide to participate and partner with Wikipedia and the Wikimedia movement? Thank you, sorry I was late, I was on another panel actually. Yeah, so you're talking about the importance of bringing an expert, and I would widen it, like the importance of bringing in partners that have perspectives or that share your same call. So I mean, we're stronger together. So I think that's a little bit why we chose to do this. I work with the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs, and we do have worked with gender equality internationally for quite some time. But this work was strengthened in 2014 when we got a new government who's really a launch that feminist foreign policy, meaning that in everything we do, we should reflect women and girls' rights, resources and representation. So Wikicap, which is a project that we did together with Wikimedia Sweden, was an attempt to try to connect Swedish embassies worldwide, together with local Wikimedia volunteers, in order to bridge the gaps, the gender gaps on Wikipedia. So actually from us, for us it came one out of a policy idea that we believe in gender equality, and we believe if we can't have gender equality, we will not achieve any of the other global goals. And two out of a, I think, also wish to connect with new partners. I mean, we're used to working with civil society and academia. We've done for a long time. But for us, this Wikimedia movement and Wikipedia as a source was, I mean, it's the biggest encyclopedia in the world. I mean, power and knowledge, it's power, right? And we want people to be empowered. So I think that was a little bit the starting point from our point of view. I want to go to the back stage of Wikipedia, what really happens when we started it in Wikipedia way? I mean, I think both of you, Sophie and Rosie, you're like long-term Wikipedians, or at least you work with Wikipedia daily. Why do you think the inequality is persisting in the encyclopedia? What are the main barriers that we are facing? Well, the first one is history itself. 500 years ago, 1,000 years ago, 1,500 years ago, 2,02500 years ago, there were no women generals. There were probably very few, if any, women politicians. There weren't popes that were women. So those articles, dating back to those years, will be articles about men and there are no women from that time period that we can say, aha, I unearthed this information about a woman general from that era. Maybe there was one or two here or there, but in general, we have to say that they were not working certain occupations, that maybe they are now. But fast forward to a more common era, the fact is that there is information about women if we look back at historical records and try to dig that up, go mining for it, and once it's found, bring it to the light. I think it's a lot easier to write biographies about men because there's more information that's historically been written about them. So it falls upon us, all of us. This is a people issue, it's not a woman issue. It falls on all of us to find that information and then write about it so that we can move the needle, as I like to say from English Wikipedia is now at about 17.9% of the biographies are about women. I don't know the statistic for Swedish. 21. Ah, good for you. 24 the Spanish. We're lagging. So that's one of the reasons the historical record hasn't supported women the way it is now, I think things are better now, especially with having magazines that spotlight these women. So I'll stop there. Yeah, I want to say something after this. Sophie, why do you think this inequality is persisting in Wikipedia? Well, I think what I agree with Rosie, but I also think that the Wikimedia and Wikipedia projects are a mirror of how the world looks today. And even when we read about people in newspapers and see them on television, even today when we have females, women leaders around the world, media is still writing more about men and that sort of stuff. So it's hard to actually be really equal in the biographies on Wikipedia when the world do not treat men and women equal. But I think there's also a danger in just counting names because I think you also need to look at how you write about men or women because there's a huge difference in Wikipedia and also in the media or in the world in general. We do tend to focus more on the physical aspects of women and when it comes to men it's more what they've done and what they've achieved. And even in certain articles in Wikipedia you'll have a much longer article about a man and a much shorter about a woman because so the name is still there. They're equal in the number of names but not in the content. And I read two articles, one about a man and one about a woman and they were married and they were both mathematicians and the article about the man, it was only focusing on his achievements as a mathematician and she was like mentioning one sentence. In the article about her there was like almost like more than one third of the article was about how he proposed to her. Yeah, I mean in the Spanish Wikipedia for quite, I don't know how much time but at least for a quite long time Marie Curie was defined as the spouse of Pierre Curie and Pierre Curie was defined like this and Marie Curie is the only person in the world who won two Nobel prizes. So yes, I agree with both of you and I wanted to say something about what you say about the history and how history of women is not as well represented on different sources as history of men or is missing as a source. Do you think that the Wikipedia projects have to change that? I mean do we need to, I don't know, build other projects that can oral knowledge that can have another kind of sources to build information that way we can make more women visible? I think we need to address all the other ways that we can gather knowledge and use it in order to build our encyclopedia. This isn't just for the benefit of gender, this is also for minorities and this is also for other types of groups. I agree we need this. I want to address two examples. One is Donna Strickland. We named one of the Wikimania rooms after her. Donna Strickland won the Nobel Prize in Physics and until she won the Nobel Prize in Physics she didn't have an article on Wikipedia. Not because one hadn't been written, it had been written, but someone in the draft area of Wikipedia had said that she didn't meet notability policy. There weren't enough reliable sources to support having her article go from a draft state to be in the main page so everyone could see it. Now, I knew Donna Strickland, like everyone else who works in a lab, did not work out by herself. She worked with a group including men and the men in her group all had Wikipedia articles, but she didn't get one until the day she won the Nobel Prize. She was 59 years old at the time and I like to say if she had been a 59 year old man would she have had an article before she won the Nobel Prize? We'll never know, but just think about that for a moment and I'll give example number two. Last year, Katie Bowman is the woman who was identified as helping to develop the first picture of the black hole. Again, Katie Bowman did not work by herself. She worked with a group of about 300 other scientists, but her work especially is why she became the name and face of the first depiction of a black hole. Katie Bowman was a 29 year old woman at the time this happened and each time her article was written and taken down and taken to articles for deletion for long discussions, it made me again stop and think if she had not been a 29 year old woman but had been a 29 year old man would there have been all of this brouhaha over the fact that her name and face was associated with the depiction of the first black hole. Just to take a note, I saw a comment on Wikipedia that someone believed that she was only in the newspaper because it was more beautiful to have a photo of a woman. I want to raise another important issue that we are facing in the Wikimedia movement that is participation. I think that is not just about content but also about participation and I think that we need to raise more awareness on what really happens in Wikipedia and how Wikipedia is built and I want to know from the partners perspective how can we better work together to bring more awareness and action on gender equity as partners. Well, I think how you choose to address the participation question within your movement is a question to your movement but you can argue whether you should have closed sessions or quotas or women rooms where women can feel that they can do what they want to without having the men aboard or they have better to go slowly and have mixed group. I will not say what's best for you. In the Wikigap project, our aim was to work on the content but the question very quickly came but isn't one of the objectives also to increase the number of female editors. And we said, yeah, if it's one objective for you, we are sure that that's good but we believe that men, that's why it's a little bit sad that we are only women here, I mean, the most important people in the fight for gender equality might be men, actually. So we believe that in countries where you could have events or edit-a-thons or contributions within the Wikigap projects, it was important that it was mixed group. In some countries you can't do that so then you'll have to work what's possible in the local context. But, I mean, a good start is to make sure that women, of course, they have the same rights as men, I believe, the same resources and also that they are represented. I mean, I come from Sweden, I'm very lucky, I know I was born here, but you go somewhere else and then people are just amazed to see a quite young woman being deputy head of mission, for instance. They're like, I didn't even know we could do that. And I mean, think about the reach of your information in your encyclopedia to make, to listen to women and to show their stories, to show hundreds and millions of little girls and boys what women can do and be. That's really important, I think. But how we as partners and affiliates can come together to raise awareness? What can we do together to raise more awareness about gender equity? For example, if I think in Wikigap, the Wikigap campaign, the reach that it had, I'm sure it had a huge impact in the context of what happened. And I think that a discussion was set. Sorry to interrupt, not only in the context, of course it did change in the cities where it was held, both in the number of articles and in the number of people contributing, but it was also like a global media reach so that people were made aware of this whole challenge. I mean, I agree with you with Reflex Society, basically. It's not like particularly problematic with Wikipedia, I think it's just like a reflection of the global world. But I think also that maybe the partners could help you with that, with the visibility, with building projects together to find people who shares your call, like who could cooperate with countries like my own or other organizations. Yeah, I was just spontaneously, Rosemann, you were talking about the difference of material existing for men and women in history. That would be a perfect project to do with partners, for instance, because there is a lot of, at least here in Sweden, where women's history has been a subject in universities since the 60s, and I think the same in America. There are so many competent professors and historians and scientists, or not scientists, researchers who have knowledge and the material is there, so that would be like a perfect merge, I think, to do a collaboration with historians and researchers who have the material you need for articles. Yeah, and maybe do something like a WikiGap or do some kind of project to highlight that work, I think. Because for me, as an outsider, and we had a little chat about this before we got up on stage, for me, I think also like if you're not in the Wikipedia or Wikimedia world, it's quite daunting to go into, even if you have the editathons and you have them sort of arrange the meetings where you tell people how to use Wikipedia and all that sort of thing, it is quite daunting and it is quite discouraging when, if you finally manage to actually write something, it disappears because someone goes in and edits it away. So I think it's partly necessary maybe to do something about the organization or the culture within Wikipedia, but also important to show people from the outside that it is doable and to open it up to more than just the already sort of the people within the Wikipedia world. I mean, you're from the outside, did you know beforehand how Wikipedia was built? I mean, you imagine that there were people volunteered behind? I knew just because a couple of years ago I was in like a little mini editathon and we actually had someone from Wikimedia Sweden to help us, so he explained the whole thing. So since then I've known, but I didn't before then know. I knew it was partly volunteers doing it, mainly because as a journalist you're advised to not believe everything you read because it is volunteers to always fact check before you use something. But I didn't know to what extent how many people who are actually in there and that it's actually open for everyone. I didn't know that to begin with, so that was news for me. Let me build on that a little bit. I think also as an outside Wikipedian that it's lacking at least in Sweden, but I think in many places based on what I get from the embassy, like knowledge of how Wikipedia is built. You just think magically that somebody, like it just happens, I don't know, artificial intelligence or something. And then when you just start to think about, oh my God, it's people, like volunteer, like normally people, like you and me, then it also becomes a call. If you want to see a change, I mean you can also try to address that gap or that change yourself, so I think maybe it could be useful in the overall fight towards gender equality also to make it more visible how Wikipedia actually is, how it works. Yeah, that could be a great way that partners could help. Just a quick question before we go to the audience. I think that we, I don't know Lina and Eva, but I'm sure that Sophie and Rosy know, and most of you know that we are undergoing a strategic process. Which are the opportunities this process brings to us and we are the challenges we're still facing. For those of you who may not be aware, we've been going through a movement strategy process for at least a couple of years. We developed a strategic direction in 2017 and the last year or so, nine working groups composed of volunteers, members of the Board of Trustees, some of the employees from the Wikimedia Foundation have been working on developing a set of draft recommendations. And I belong to one of those teams, the one on community health. So let me say this, I am 65 years old and if this movement strategy is supposed to get us to 2030, I will then be 76 years old. I will not be sitting at the table talking about movement strategy at that time. So I'm very vested in thinking that the work that's being done now actually comes to fruition, that something comes from it, that the diversity group who's working on its recommendations that those get reviewed carefully, that the community has its say about what it thinks and that when the recommendations become harmonized, that all the work that they've done for this long period of time doesn't go to waste but actually gets implemented. And then the same is true for community health, the group that I represent. I want to make sure that we have a kinder, more gentle, more civil society across the Wikimedia projects so that we can do our work. So that people understand that just because the way a man has a discourse with another man on a talk page might be okay, maybe man speak is okay to use a certain tone and one may not think that that's not civil between the two of them. But when you bring in others who are not men, be it non-binary or women or whoever else, that there might be someone who thinks it's uncivil and if at least one person thinks so, it has to change. That's the only way that we will be able to grow our community so that everyone feels they have an equal voice at the table. Anything from your side? Just to wrap up? I believe that the movement strategy could make it easier for us to talk about these topics and hopefully also make it easy for us to work together between chapters and communities and find better ways of communicating and helping each other and what I might be a bit afraid of, that it's great to talk about, but then it lacks in action or since there are many things in the movement strategy, it's not the priority. I hope that we'll prove otherwise during the years to come. Thank you so much, the four of you. Thank you for being here and for your testimonies. It's been so inspiring. Now I want to turn the questions to the audience. I don't know if you've seen that you have like a small card. Do you have like a small card? Yeah, these are because we want to ask you to write down any advice, I mean, one advice, one learning, one project that you are doing, we are then going to put all these together and share it with the movement. We can do it right now, I mean, two minutes to write down an idea. I mean, it can also be in Spanish if it's fine, better for you. I mean, I don't talk any other language, but... So, two minutes. So, are we done already? Raise your hand if you're done. Nobody? No, not yet. Oh, yes, of course. Sorry. So, are we done now? Raise your hands. Who is done? Okay, more or less. Okay, great. Now I want you to participate. First of all, I would like to hear from your project. There's anyone in this super big room that wants to share with us what you are doing to address and to close the gender gap in Wikipedia? Any of you willing to share it with us? Over there, Samantha? Yeah, Samantha is going to be helping me. Hi, my name is Alex. I'm a non-binary slash female. And I just wanted to say that I took part of a writing camp for women and non-binary instead of Sophie, organized. And I really want to stress the possibility to... Sorry, my English. If I hadn't gone to that writing camp, I would not be a Wikipedia today, pretty much. And a thing that really attracted me to it was that it was just women and non-binary people. Sure, in white, the men do that. But first, I think we need to empower the non-binary and women to, like, meet in groups, to get together, to, like, pep each other up. And when we're done there, sure, we can go out in the world and fight a good fight. But sometimes we have to start separatistic to then go all-inclusive. So, thank you, Sophie, also. Thank you so much. And I will be doing my own writing camps next year in your shopping. So, holla at me. Thank you. Any other example? Yeah, we have... Okay, we have some people there. And then we have two more hands here. Hi, good day, everyone. Sometime in 2016, we had this project that we worked on in Nigeria called the Igbo Women Wiki. So the essence mostly was to translate the existing articles on women, on the English Wikipedia to the Igbo language. But then while we were doing that, we realized there were not so many. So we then had to also start creating. So we would have to... At first, we would create on the English Wikipedia then translate to Igbo. But at the point, we were like, since we were actually very specific about what we wanted, so we just focused on the Igbo language platform and then we started creating a whole lot of articles. So it was quite successful. We had mostly women join us for the project and then that then gave room to birth in the Igbo language music group. So we have almost an 80% women membership of that music group. So what I've learned from that experience is, yes, we're talking about equal edits, but then what happens often is when you have a lot more women in the room, they would want to write about women. So if we are looking at the content, like the lady from Hisarika talked about, you also have to look at who is actually writing this. So if we encourage a lot of women to edit, they would most likely write about women. Thank you. Interesting. I'm going to be back to you, but we have two more hands. I mean, someone wanted to say something here and there. Oh, yeah, okay. Then I cut it short. Hey, I'm Greta from Wikipedia, Albania, and one of the co-founders of Wikibom in Red in Albania. We started in Ezinolario actually with Rosie for the Albanian language. There were 22 articles about women biographies. I mean, you're 22. You say 22? 22 articles, yes, two years ago. And now we have almost 700 articles about women in Wikipedia. Yeah. Actually, in Albania, since we don't have that much active editors, we don't have that much fight about deleting articles. What we're missing is the resources to write about women, good resources to write about women, and what we are focusing on, especially with Christina, it's women who did very good job in the communism time, like very different projects and stuff. We're facing a lot of problems with the resources, but yeah, we are almost 1,000. So let's see how that works out. But yeah. Wow, good job. Hi, I'm Sherry with Afrocrowd, and we've had a great opportunity to work with a few of the women on the stage, actually. We did Wikigap. We've worked with Rosie before, and we've had monthly events since 2015. Afrocrowd was started by a woman and has a lot of women leadership, and we also work with different organizations that are often women-led, and we find that in the last almost five years that we've been at it, that when you work with women-led organizations, they are very motivated to, and their networks are motivated to continue the conversation on editing about more women and finding other opportunities to work again to do editathons concerning women. So that's been a very positive experience to work with, especially since we work with women of the African diaspora. It's been great to also get to work with some of the women in organizations in the continent of Africa, as well as in different African diasporas in different parts of the world. Thank you. We have two more, and then we just have to wrap up, because I think we are... Hi, I am from Bikidonas in Catalan and Bikimujeres in Castilian, in Spanish. Can I speak Spanish? Because Anna, please, can you translate? Yes, yes, yes. I think that gender gap... I mean, reducing the gender gap is very difficult, because the amount of articles that are written by men that are not relevant grows every single day. Anna. Yes, yes, yes. Thank you. Well, in Castilian you say... Catalan, well, Catalan. That's how we do multilingual. I am Montserrat Bosch, co-founder of Bikimujeres. She is Montserrat Bosch, co-founder of Bikimujeres. And I wanted to present a reflection in Alforza, because I think it's very important and I wanted to present a reflection in Alforza. In relation... I have the feeling that many times in our movement of Wikimedia she feels that in this movement we get confused sometimes with topics and terms between what are gender policies and the policies of gender are. And the policies regarding women and feminism. That makes sense, right? For example, I worry that in the conference, in the whole Wikimedia conference, there is practically no women's word in the programme. She is worried that if you look into the programme of Wikimedia, the word women is not present in any part of the programme. And I mean, either feminism as a word in the programme. I note that the fact that the meeting is held here, in this country where feminism has worked a lot, makes the contingencies... We find contingencies about women and feminism, the fact that we are in this country and that the part of this country brings feminism and women. She highlights the... She highlights that the conference is this year taking place in Stockholm and Sweden is a country that leads this discussion and has specific policies, builds policies around feminism and women. She's happy for that. The movement, Wikimedia, we have a currency and confusion between women and gender. We have to work on both points. But when it comes to the Wikimedia movement, we have a huge confusion between what gender means and what women mean. I mean, we need to work in the two of them, but separately. I mean, not confusing both of the topics in terms. And I encourage that we create work groups to incorporate women's history, for example, in Wikimedia, women's human rights, because we have many human rights, LGTBI, for example, in all countries, but we don't have the rights of women in all countries. And she encourages us to continue working on building more content on women in Wikimedia, but also regarding the human rights of women, because we have a lot of articles related to LGBT human rights, but not women human rights articles in Wikimedia. I think my best. So I think that we ran out of time. So thank you so much, everybody. I think that there's still a lot of things that challenges we are facing, a lot to do. We are a huge... I mean, this movement is doing so much to address this issue, and I think that we are all very committed to make this happen. So thank you so much again, the four of you. Thank you so much to all of you that come today and for paying attention and being here and spending this time for us. And also thank you so much for the Foundation for giving me the opportunity to moderate in this panel. And if you have any questions, just reach out to us anytime. We're going to be around for one more day, and a lot of things can happen in one more day. So let's... I mean, anything you need. Thank you. Thank you.