 Welcome to Reader Syndicate 3.0, the next evolution of the look into counterculture that is Canada. My name is Matthew, owner of Riot Seeds, and this started as a one-man mission for Strain History and Breeding Science. Over time, it's evolved into something bigger, better, and more of a team effort. We will be joined by members of the Cannaluminati and other friends throughout the seasons to hear their takes on grow techniques, breeding science, Strain History, and more. Our mission is to combat the narrative that corporate cannabis and seed posers are obfuscating for their own financial benefit. Welcome to the Underground. We are The Syndicate. Welcome to Reader Syndicate. I'm Matthew, here with my co-host, Thousandfold. Today, we have someone very special with us that I've wanted to interview for a long time, and people have been asking for us to talk to you for a long time. And that is Shabad with 707 Seed Bank. Thank you for showing up, and it's great to have you. Thousand, did I just totally steal the whole thing? No, you're good. I mean, I don't know how much we can add to 707 in terms of the introduction. People should know who he is. It's been around for a long time. I guess we can start right away with what were your early experiences with the plant, and how did you get into growing and breeding? Early experiences, I grew up in the hood. Everything was there. I grew up in the early 90s neighborhood that I grew up in. Back in the 80s, it was all cocaine, heroin. 90s came around, became meth. I got used to sleeping with sirens. When I left, when I moved away, I had the hardest time falling asleep. Because I was living in the woods, super quiet, not used to it. One day, I hear ambulance or car drive by instantly out cold. The name was just that kind of place. I got introduced to it really early. Older brothers and sisters. Dad smoked too, but when I was little, he had plants in the backyard, but I had no idea what they were. I got ADHD pretty bad. I was self-medicated, not knowing why until I got older. It just kept my mind straight. I focused a lot better than without it. Where were you raised in Humboldt? Bay Area, Concord East Bay. City Boy, a latchkey kid. I ran him up my whole childhood. In and out of trouble all the time. I lived with a bunch of different family members. When I was 14, I moved to New York City with my sister. I was in this coffee shop, the next door to the coffee shop, there was this liquor store. I just had this rack of high times. From years and years, they had almost every single issue out. Every day after work, I bought high times with my tip money, looking at it. These are the times when phototron and all that shit was inside of it. After work, I would get one of those, go back to the apartment, start reading about it, and daydreaming pretty much. When I get back to California, this is my ticket out of the hood. At that age 14, I was like, I know exactly what the fuck I'm doing and how to get out. When I was about 16, I made it back to California. I lived with my parents for a couple of months. After that, I had been balanced since I started living in garages, couchsurfing and whatnot. We had a little park, Breone's. I read my BMX down there, planted some seeds in the little creek over there. Mid-90s, it doesn't matter. As long as it doesn't have seeds, you're getting 4,500 bucks a pound. I planted some shit out in there. Nothing ever turned out really good. I dried it in the fucking woods right there, just hanging them in trees. We pick them premature. That was the intro. What was the green butt at the time? Seeing nothing but green butt my whole life. Every once in a while, we would get the brick. You'd see it in the neighborhood, but you had shit ton of options. Cat piss was huge back then. We had probably five or six different varieties of cat piss at that point. Just a skunk. We didn't have names back then. It was dank or swag, green butt, kind butt. Was this like the era? No, I think it was a little bit before that. The terms kind of caught on. It was kind of after the people calling Herb. You'd just call anything dank and swag at that point. Actually, I remember I think there was some dude on the David Letterman show. I'm a hippie guy that he picked up. David Letterman picked up in San Francisco. The guy was teaching David Letterman the fucking terminology. He was like, this is dank. This is swag. I think that's what it kind of caught on. That name. Was making seeds just part of growing for you at the time as well? It's just part of the process of the cycle? No. I was also doing my thing back in the day at twomp sacs, $20 grams and $60 ace and whatnot. Seeds never really came to me until my, probably like late 20s. It's buying the high times back then. I remember seeing like super silver haze first coming out or white widow and all these cool things. I always just would go through the catalogs and fantasize of what I'm going to buy and what I'm going to grow. When I first started really growing, I did the Bay Area thing in the park for a couple years. Like I said, it just got me by. Then I got my foot in the door by one of my old dealers called him Tweaker Rick back then. He ended up burning his dealer by spending all of the guy's money on Elton John fucking tickets. Thinking he's going to scalp him in the fucking concert and make triple his money. Anyhow, he might have sold two tickets and he took everybody he knew to Elton John. So his dealer ended up getting burned and the way Tweaker Rick repaid him back was he introduced him to me and then we started working together but I was paying still Tweaker Rick's ticket at that point. The guy slowly made his money back. Then we made a relationship and started trusting me. He was much older than me at that time. One day he was like, hey, come out to Santa Cruz and I went over there and he had a house in Scotts Valley and he had this sweet underground in his house. It was a three story house and pretty much the attic was all converted. He had a secret door and everything. I love that. So he showed me that. I started trimming for him a little bit. I thought it was the coolest thing ever at first and then eventually he was like, do you want a job? I was like, what? Yeah, fuck yeah. Moved to Santa Cruz and the fucking bitching ass house and just became the assistant pretty much and took care of all the bullshit he didn't want to. So he taught me hydroponics, rock wool. Back then there was no fucking carbon scrubbers or we didn't have the fucking technology we had now. We had general hydroponics. We had botanic hair. Were you doing flood and drain at the time? We were doing flood and drain. No, no, no. It was top feed. It was top feed but yeah, it was a recycle system and we were using GH321. Rockwell cubes on Rockwell's labs. Super easy. Let's see what kind of strains were we growing back then. We were growing big bud, Mongolian, Mongolian's indica or something like that. Sure. Who was that? I think Greenhouse seeds, that Mongolian. We had another one called Black Star. Who knows what it was? And a couple other things. There was one called the asthma which was the Santa Cruz strain that was fucking kick ass. I've been trying that for years but I think it's gone. Have you heard anybody speak about it since then? The asthma? No, never, never. There was one in Santa Cruz called asthma. And then there's two in Tahoe that I've been trying to get my hands on. One was called the Afghani Queen and the other one was called just club. And those were great too. But who knows what ever happened to them. Can't find those either. You mentioned high times. Where else were you getting your information from? High times. In terms of growing and genetics. All high times. Okay. This was the mid 90s. You didn't tell anyone. You didn't tell your girlfriends. You didn't tell anyone back then. Nothing for a married man. I pretty much lived a lie. People asked me what I did. I said I was an electrician. I went out and got a pager. A beaker back then. When you were able to find and leave a message on them. I would leave work. You reach E&J electrical services. Please leave a name. If somebody really wanted to check up. I don't know. That's what I do. So yeah. There was no information. It was all you learned by trial and error. Right. You had asked that. But that was about it. And you know there was a couple of other books out there. That I had read back in the day. But pretty much for the most part it was trial and error. You know. Yeah. That makes sense. So after you start working for this dude. Right. Do you start taking it on your own. So we ended up getting busted with operation green fire. It's where. This was in 96. The DEA ended up following everybody home from the hydro stores. But back then in the Bay Area you had. You had Berkeley indoor hydro store. You had one in Berkeley called the Viverian. There was a store in Sacramento called Green Fire. And there was a store in Nanos Bay. I don't remember the name of it but the guy Hans. That was it for hydro stores back then. Right. And then only in Santa Cruz they had to open one up in Aptos. And the fucking DEA were following everybody home. So they followed my boss to a different grower. You have another couple grown. So the DEA would like when they would throw out their trash, the DEA went, took their trash, searched through it, found something. From there raided their house. And then from there they raided our house. And like I said, I was a kid back then. Pops knew who they were going for. So they ended up grabbing the boss man. Left me alone. Going back to the Bay Area. It was hustling. And then the Beasters came in. The BC we came in. And pretty much annihilated my hustle. Because I was still, you know, high grade, flavorful. The BC came in. It looked pretty. But you know, now pounds that were going for 4,000 bucks are now 2,000 bucks. Right. I mean, for the first few years of BC, if you found somebody that was bringing it in, I know some people that made hella money, hella fast, then ended up doing like 10 years prison. They just made way too much, way too fast. I mean, I'm talking millions. And then they ended up getting busted and what not. So when the BC came in, it pretty much wiped out my hustle. People didn't want to play that high ticket anymore and just wanted that cheat. But as you see it happen like every 10 years or so. Right. Yeah. So at that point, I was just like, you know, fuck it. I love snowboarding. I wanted to be up in the mountains. So it was top area. And was working at the ski resorts. And then that's when I started just doing my own thing pretty much full time. Started with indoors. Did the flood injury or not the flood, the house top with the rock bowl, top feeding, recycle. And then, you know, it should never really turned out that great. And I don't remember how it happened or if I read something or somebody told me they're like, stop the recycle system and just go to drain and waste. And then as soon as I did that, all my problems went away. Everything turned out incredible. Still using GH at that time. And, you know, so that was that. Sorry. What do you think about changing to drain to waste? What do you think changed the scenario? Salt buildup. Salt buildup. The salts would be where you do the recycle. Right. And then once you do dry snow salt buildup, so it fixes everything. Right. So then, so now I'm doing a little, I had like eight lights at that time. Everything's going good. And then I started incorporating a little bit of outdoor at the property I was living on. It was a five acre proposal, and I was like, Landlord lived right next door on the other five acres. So I still had to like be pretty discreet and where I was living was come on vacation, leave on probation type place. Right. They weren't having it at all. So what I did was there's this huge blackberry patch and there was like a little crawl way where some craters were crawling underneath it and I ended up following that into the middle, getting out of the middle of it. I ended up digging down probably like two, three feet so I can get some more height out of it. And then that's where I planned my plants. And then, you know, occasionally my landlord would come over and she was like, it smells really skunky. Is there a dead skunk or something? I was like, I don't know where we're going. So that was my start of like really trying to do outside growing. It's still, now at this time it's 99. Right. Outdoor weed is still getting four grand. You don't have to grow up very much. I'm young. So, you know, and I came from nothing. So the money I was making was incredible for me. I did. It was incredible. Right. And then, you know, slowly every year after that, the little blackberry bush patch got a little bit bigger, a little bit bigger. And finally I was able to move out of there and get a bigger spot and do more of the outdoor. Yeah. Somebody told me, somebody told me you pay your bills indoor and you retire off outdoor. Back then. Oh, shit. That's smart. Right. Back then that was the thing, right? Yeah. So I just started doing the outdoor more and more and more and then finally, let's see, I've gotten in trouble a few times in this town. So the last time there were pretty much like, you know, don't give us problem. We won't give you a problem. And left to Willets Mendo. Pretty much where it was a free for all. If you, if you have money for an attorney, it was pretty much legal. If you didn't have money for an attorney, you were going to jail. Yeah. Life was good. So as I'm starting to do more outdoor, I knew like, you know, a seed, you'll get double the yield less the problem, you know, half the problems than growing a clone outside. Yep. And so, you know, I'm buying, I'm buying seeds from everybody and I'm growing them out and every time I'm fucking buying them, you know, I'm reading their description sounds great. I get hard on from it and then I grow them out and it's like, you know, it's like, not even one of them fit the description or maybe if I was luckily one of the plants would fit the description of how they're describing them. Right. But most times at a 10 seeds, I'm getting 10 completely different plants and it just wasn't happening. Right. It's not feasible for a big monoprop outdoor. Exactly. So then that's when I was like, you know what, I'm gonna fucking do better and decided to start playing around and making my own seeds. So most of my seed was made for commercial outdoor. Different times, you know, different harvest times, different flavors, mostly flavor. I'm a flavor guy, you know, if it doesn't make off water, I don't really want to fuck with it. So, What was the point you were growing out door and first making seeds with? How about you going on that as far as strains go? Actually, the cat piss was the, well, my very first, my very first strain cross I ever did was train wreck cross to Lado Uno. Lado Uno, JC Brains. Yeah. The Lado Uno, yeah. Though, you know, I'm just playing. Yeah, yeah. I ran it too. Right. You know, making the seeds is kind of like, it's like art to me. It's my creation. It's my art. It's my passion. And not just seeds, like, you know, I breed chickens, I breed rabbits, dogs. I love that creating and making my own thing. So, I mean, that's where real passion lies. And then just being able, you know, the gamble, the rush of it is like, you never know what you're going to get until you grow them out, you know, until the very end. And, you know, sometimes you're waiting some months and, you know, it's crap shoot who knows with other people, but. So, yeah, that's why. What's the Lado Uno train wreck? Was that just like a super lemony type strain in the end? How did that happen? The train wreck, though, pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. So, so that was the first just playing around. And then I got my, I got the cat piss cut, which I had been searching the Pittsburgh piss. Yeah. So we had, we had several different captuses we had. So we named them for the dealer or the town we bought it from. So like we had the Nate piss or we had Tom the bomb piss. There was this girl. We called the Claire piss or then you had, you know, the Martina piss or the Pittsburgh piss or the Danville piss. The cities you got a I'm thinking, you know, that was like the the Amsterdam Turp probably profile back then. Yeah. Everything was stinky. Everything was skunky, right? Yeah. So now it's about two thousand four or five. I got the cat piss strain and what I was, I was looking for the piss and I was looking for the red kill scum. Yeah. And I roadkill scum I couldn't find anywhere and I always thought that the cat piss and the roadkill were related a little bit. Yeah. So I got the cat piss and I was like, cool. Make some seeds, grow them out and hopefully find the roadkill. So I did it. Didn't find the roadkill. Then I crossed back, made some more seeds, tried it out. I couldn't find the roadkill inside there. It was all just cat piss. Yeah. So I got the cat piss, the Pittsburgh piss, which I worked was actually the least of my favorite out of all. Why did you choose to work that one then? What's that? Why did you choose to work it? Only one I could find. Oh, okay. Yeah. I searched for days, days and days. Spent thousands and thousands of dollars on people claiming they had it. Sure. Traveled all over. Same thing with the skunk. Spent who knows how much and traveled all over. And so he's been bonked. At this point, because you mentioned kind of making seeds partly to solve your own problem as a grower. How do you go from that point to actually selling seeds? Is that quite a gap? Or does that happen quite quickly? Huge gap. So I started making seeds in the early 2000s, just red sash, just fun, passion. And then I didn't start selling seeds until 2018 or 19. And the only reason I kind of did it was just seeing, I was sharing seeds with people and then a few of these people started seed companies with my seeds. At that point, I was like, maybe I got something on here. So that's why I decided to come out with that. Yeah, that makes sense. I remember, I know what you're talking about specifically for sure. But back to the cat piss, what notable things did you find working with the Pittsburgh Piss? Short, stout, little plant. It's just nostalgic. It's my old high school strain. Anyone from the Bay that's in their 40s remembers the Pittsburgh Piss. Or they called it the Uncle Bob. Like the actual guy. We always called it the Pittsburgh Piss. It's just like the high school strain. It's kind of like here in the old timers from the 70s being like, the Rockle Poke of Gold, or the Panama Red. It's just what those old flavors that just remind you of little incidences or the past or something like that. So I worked at the piss and then at the same time as I'm working the piss, I'm going to a computer tech school at the time and one of my classmates, their family owns this huge farm in Northern California. They pretty much own like half this town, Williams. And one day the guy comes to school and he's got all these brown spots all over his shirt and I'm like, what the fuck were you doing? And he said he was spring he was spring. They're melons or they're cucumbers with silver nitrate and I'm like, what the fuck why would you do that? And he was like, well, you got feminized seeds and I was like, oh, shit. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure he was cucumbers. They were spring with silver nitrate for the seeds, right? And he doesn't know I'm growing weed at all but so you know I'm picking his brain a little bit and then he tells me and there's this other thing called Florell that will reverse males into females and now my fucking head's just spinning. I'm like, oh my... You're telling me this about cucumbers? No, I don't remember what the Florell was for but it was like what? Yeah. And so now my head's spinning I can't wait to get fucking home to like start looking the shit up and play around with it. So the reversing the males I thought, you know, I still think it was a huge tool to the breeder because when a female's easy, you smell it you smoke it, you know exactly what it is the males you know, back in the day before I even do I would do the stem rub and how they grew and that's pretty much how I selected but you never knew what you're getting at the end until you grew them out so with reversing the males now you can fucking pinpoint exactly the flavor you're looking for I wouldn't smoke it I would cover up pretty good when I spray that Florell So I was doing that and I could pinpoint Terps at least and then sometimes you'd find three or four different males you really like so I would take each one of those and I would cross each male to its own clone so let's say the cat piss so I took four different cat piss males and I would cross each one to its own original cat piss clone then grow all those out and now I can pinpoint exactly what male is doing what what male is passing which trait exactly and then pick out the best one so the process takes a fucking long time but like I said I wasn't making seeds to sell I was breeding solely for myself so in 20 years I can have what I want and not lose those genetics real quick go ahead I'll ask this one my question for you Shaiz when do the forums come into play for you forums came into play in 2002 I started blowing glass I was taking classes with this purple and humble and I met this guy Jeff who goes by cannabis reverend online he was part of the hash bros with space and what not so I met Jeff and he was like why don't you go on the computer and look and I was like what you know it scared shitless I was like I was still not very good on the computer so he introduced me to overgrow and I started going on there and browsing for a little bit scared to type anything on there and that was my experience with with the forums overgrow was the first one and then it went to canna cabana or something like that yeah I can't remember them all now anymore were you a cannabis world dude I did a cannabis world too yeah I met a lot of a lot of my friends now 20 years later Ross O'Refo and Lord overtoke and Seaweed Seaweed yeah it was before my time I just hear your guys stories and that's the only reason that was before my time funny story about what a small world it is so this guy Jeff who introduces me to the forums him and I go to a cannabis cup in Vancouver once and he lives in Seattle area so I'm chilling at his house before we go and this other guy comes over we're talking and so we're talking we're all pretty young whatever years go by, I'm on the forums now and then the doctor hits me up and he's like hey man not knowing that we have met before I'm growing the pub energy back then so it's still early 2000s and he's like let's trade some strains and there was another guy from Oregon who wanted to meet up who said he had the roadkill stunk I don't remember what his name was but was it Paradise Seeds mod? Paradise Seeds mod did he work with Oregon later? Kylua kid? yeah maybe did he come out with did he come out with a seed bank too? yes he did he tried to come Kings later on but he had brothel brothers too I need the west coast dog guy yeah that's funny that's who it was oh it was him that makes sense that's who it was so I met up with Fletch and him when I got to the place I see Fletch I'm like hey man I fucking know you he's like I know you crazy small fucking world so that was my start of the forums got introduced by Jeff and I looked back what a fucking game changer that was right now you can ask questions and what not I remember Boggs post back then and I thought that was pretty chirpy I tried out everybody's tricks and what not did you ever pee on your plants like Kendo said? I had never peed on my plants I've never peed on my plants that's one of my favorites I pee on my plants like a kid though yeah like that who when you just first got on the forums was most influential was it like the Bogg type people? Bogg yeah yeah he's the only one who stands out to me and remembers yeah he seems to be a big point for a lot of people from your era like his posts his because they were real thorough you know totally I tried out all those tricks like the blackout for 48 hours and what not some things maybe I noticed a difference but other things no you know my style is the kiss method super simple now I'm all dirt organic I haven't touched Hydro in 20 years do you ever get the hankering? the what? do you ever get the hankering to go back to Hydro just for shits and gigs? no not at all not at all I could pick out Rockwell grown weed just by the look I'll never touch you again that or trainwreck trainwreck for like the first six years nothing but trainwreck so the Hydro and trainwreck will never never do again yeah I'm not much of a fan of indoor anymore myself personally not only the cost living in California and the power bills fucking ridiculous but just the smoke of it doesn't really get high anymore the sun grown is by far my favorite or a greenhouse very cool definitely has more of a kick than indoor grown weed yeah a lot of dudes say that I don't have as much experience with outdoor being where I came from like it was so freaking hot that nobody was really getting good outdoor so like I am so blind when it comes to outdoor really got to experience a lot of really great outdoor even still I need to cruise up bro yeah I switch my style now I don't buy anything anymore I get all my nutrients for my critters mostly rabbit shit chicken shit and then of course I use like bone meal and what else chipsim alfalfa amendments alfalfa and what not for the most part it's just rabbit shit and then the chicken shit I am ending the soil as well I just make rabbit shit tea or I just top dress with it and that's awesome actually it's fucking delicious one of our mates had a question for you about your outdoor style which was do you grow in the ground or in containers pretty much I've had over a dozen farms different areas all throughout northern California so it just depends on the location I've grown straight in the ground I grow in pots beds just location wise but I've done it all I've even like when money isn't all up there and I can't afford some stuff I've even just thrown mounds of dirt on top of the ground and just planted in that without using pots or anything like that so it's just what do I prefer so in smart pots they definitely grow the best they grow the fastest and the biggest but then like you're growing both foot plants and now you got this two foot pot you work getting on the ladders and having a work with super super tall plants but that's what we did back in the day you try to grow big fucking plants to stay within your limit so when the game here's medical strips and here's plants go fuck off now there's six of them at 400 pounds total right like you're trying to max out six plants yeah um and then you know so different styles for different areas where I am now you'd stay in their guidelines and you just grew as big plants as you could I went up to Trinity County and pretty much Trinity County was as long as your neighbors don't call the cops on you you're fine, it's not a crime so there you were able to go all out I still did mostly big plants there but then I started catching on just smaller plants smaller plants do much better outdoors quality wise the buds look better they taste better are they stoneier yeah they're stoneier too like once you start passing five pounds plants the quality goes down the look goes down right the trade off right um last couple years I was working at a legal farm for a company and they're you know I told them I was like dude pack them in there so let's go shit ton of small plants and so that's what we did and that was that was hella fun like um we did uh 20,000 seeds last year um I got to grow a shit ton of my own stuff so that was cool and then uh I grew a bunch of other people's stuff and uh still growing other people's stuff you know that I don't want to my own horn but um you know my shit's got to go yeah the other people's stuff same shit you know it's like one out of the ten would be whatever they described or it was you know different it's like um yeah so as a breeder and as someone that bought seeds like when at least when I started my company that was like one of the main factors that I wanted to hit because it was the most annoying part for me was that I could not get any kind of reliability in these strange descriptions because like if you think about like Dutch flowers they had some of the best copywriting ever like you'd read that and be like damn really metal tastes like fucking what you know like that's right and you get it it kind of sucks yeah yeah I grew out a bunch of those the metal the metal haze yeah what'd you think yeah there was a couple of them that floated around and uh actually that one still stands out to me I remember how easy it was to trim and like the spear buds and yeah I mean you know it was good it wasn't you know mind-blowing but it was good and the structure I think it was more the structure that I remember just how well it grew outside so yeah so the outdoor we did it for years and then um you know getting raided kicking kicking me out of town and then you know every time I got raided and I'd have to put my property up for sale like the value had just skyrocketed and even with like telling people hey you know the cops said they're coming back they would still want to buy these properties so then I was like hey well fuck maybe that's the ticket right there so then I started buying properties building them up you know a grow year or two out of them and then flip them and not fantastic but you know like that ended too with everything else fun um you know properties that north that used to sell for 5 million and like humble won't even sell for $500,000 yeah so so that was that and with like the seed breeding it's what I fucking love to do I love the hunt I love the gamble being able to create my own thing and I love the fact that you know I know like in 10 years let's say OG goes to the scene I got OG seeds and I know they're going to come out with OG I don't have to dig through them all or nothing like that so they're going to be OG or you know the cat piss it's going to be cat piss or Betsy or what not if you know tell us a little bit about some of your main breeding males the males should the chem dog is what put me on the map is what a lot of people were using to start seed companies so chem dog like I don't even have these males anymore and then you know every year growing outdoors would pick out you know what I thought would be cool males and what not you know take them in reverse them and play around and I grew Cush Cleaner was one of my major cash coppers for a long long time it's similar to Trainwreck but different it's got that old Amsterdam 90s Jack Terps was that the cleaner or was it Jack's cleaner that you used so it came the male for that came from Lauren Kanna Cabana yeah the male came from that it was a Jack's cleaner too and I kept on pestering him for Cush Cleaner seeds year after year after year and he got so generous every year he'd given to me and then one year he was like look here's the fucking male just make your own seed that's awesome so you know I made my own and then what was cool was you know I had seeds and I was able to give him back thousands of seeds and he had crossed that male to a bunch of different things and I had grown them all out the one with the SF feed was by far the winner I just kept growing that out and then every year I'd save the males reverse them see what was what and now at this point we got laps out so now I can take after I reverse the males and I can point the Terps back in the middle of the laps and get them tested for potency and what not so for like the Cush Cleaner male that I use that to date has been my highest testing male and like when you're testing males you know there's just like the males turn out like what's that string green spool green spoon or something like that or it's just like a stem with little tiny nose little bracts yeah little brackets that's how when you reverse some male that's what they look like so you know to get them what's that? I know people can be bugging the shit out of me to ask you about this and I wanted to hit it when we first talked about reversing males can you explain the different structures that form and why one not only because the Florelle why you don't smoke it but how they actually form when you spray because I think a lot of people are picturing you spraying this and then you have a big butted female no no not at all like I said it's like the green spoon a little tiny seed bracket on top of where they're going up barely anything on there some strains I've noticed more like short stout indicates we'll actually produce a tiny tiny little butt on top but it's still more just that little right or a little bracket growing on but not full buds or anything like that just enough to where you can smell it get a little stickiness on your finger essentially doing it to make the male produce more oils so you can get at least a few traits, breeding traits yeah just the turps and then so when you're able to with the labs opening up you know and then the male will also seed itself right so it's got seeds in it and what not so your lab samples aren't that great so like when I tested my cat piss males they would be anywhere from 10 to 12 percent and that's it and then you know anywhere from my average at that time was like 8 to 15 percent THC with testing males and then the Cush Cleaner male that I tested and I had reversed a ton of these Cush Cleaner males every year just going through and reversing and keeping the best one and playing with it next year grow out more Cush Cleaners and just repeating the same process over and over again for quite a few years and then finally I came with the one that I used for my Cush Cleaner experience and then that one tested at 19 percent that's fucking strong right and so when I made my little Cush Cleaner experiment I pretty much took everything that had really good flavor to me but lacked potency and so I hit everything with that and then grew them all out that Jack Terps is super dominant with stuff so like after stuff was all Jack which I just discarded and then the ones that were the mom flavor carried through those are the ones that I ended up releasing which is you know like the Forbidden Fruit one is one of my favorites I call it Poach and Doughmore and the Cush Cleaner male totally added potency to it the phenos that I had the phenotypes that I kept it's the green ones that you really want to go after those are more of the Cush Cleaner stoniness but that Forbidden Fruit flavor where the purple ones are more leaning towards the Forbidden Fruit where it has no power behind it at all so that's where I am right now I'm digging through all these Cush Cleaner ones all these Cush Cleaner crosses the Forbidden Fruits I started making some feminized with them I started making feminized with the green ones like these things they taste so good I was thinking I was going to take one or two puffs but they taste so good I end up smoking the whole fucking thing and it ruins my day so they taste so good it's dangerous can I ask what made you return to Thin Breeding it's what people want and it's easy and it saves me a year of breeding with males maybe even more than a year rather than having to pick out the males then reverse them first you grow them out you pick out what you think is cool that's let's say four months now you've got to grow them out reverse them there's another four months then you pollinate and grow and grow them out now you're looking at another six to eight months and also add in narrowing the traits you're skipping years at that point yeah there's the plus side of thems it's hell easy and it's cutting out hella time but the downside of it is things are going to get bottlenecked there's not going to be much everything's if everybody's made fens of the same shit you're going to lose out on a bunch of different flavors yeah so I'm still doing I'm still doing both I'm just dug through the potions and I'm going to turn those into fens now and then my next project is the not blue moonshine blueberry muffins or something from a humble seed company hell easy delicious but again no potency but some of these Kush Cleaner ones has all the flavor and all the potency so with those I'm going to start going f2, f3, f4 with I'm hoping I'm working on trying to get a legal spot small just do a 10,000 square foot area greenhouse do some real breeding so numbers is where it's at I want to be able to pick through thousands of plants there's something about being able to see thousands of your own strain and be able to go through that huge population that really changes how you're able to look at your own line too because you pop 10 you might see 7 you pop a thousand you might not see that again the same distribution so for sure right so hopefully fingers crossed everything works out well I'm hoping by the end of the year to at least get my foot in the door on that who knows if I'll be up and running but that's the goal for now so we have a question from high and lonesome about I believe you were 707 OG Kush male why did you decide to use the SFV did you try to select for ideal OG traits or for a seed line representation of the mother and were there traits he felt he was able to improve on I'm sorry I missed the last part just were there traits he felt he was able to improve on so I picked I grew out all the OGs one year every OG I could get all of my hands on and that SFV and my body chemistry just matched by far my favorite of all the OGs some of them yielded more this one didn't yield as much but the flavor was there and the fucking high for me is incredible so that was why I chose the SFV I've worked the triangle I worked the ghost I mean it would be hard for I think it would be pretty hard for the average smoker if you gave them a bud of each one of those OGs for them to be able to tell a difference it's like splitting hairs right yeah exactly but the SFV for me was by far my fave and like I said it's making the seed so I can smoke or smoke that in 20 years or whatnot when you're breathing and you actually smoke which a lot of people don't your own personal preference and brain chemistry comes heavily into play and I can definitely appreciate that for sure SFV was that's had stash for sure I got Betsy which is San Diego old Betsy which great great can you tell the story a little bit about Betsy a lot more popularity again thanks to UNCSI so Betsy came from a guy Bud Euler online he got it from somebody down south and kept on saying Betsy Betsy and I remember thinking I was like dude what a fucking lame name what yeah I remember him bringing it one year and just these massive big buds fruity, mango-y like a baby ate a shit ton of mangoes and then shit them out stinky, funky stuff and I was like okay this is cool you know it's cool it's not OG but it's still cool and then I grew it out one year outside and I was like whoa like this is it fucking yields hella good finished middle of October and it's one of the strains where you could vaccine it seal it up put it aside for eight months come back open it up and it smells like you just harvested it the flavor right and it was one of those strains where it was either you loved it had people say both you know and then sometimes they got fed up with the old Betsy I'd label the bags OB and if they got fed up with it I'd say I got Oregon Blueberry now they all said they love the Oregon Blueberry but hate the old Betsy got that mango kush you had the mango kush that's right I think it was called the mango kush but yeah so Betsy it's a fucking great cash property awesome it finished middle of October for me so that was awesome too because I had to split up my harvests to be able to fit everything in the dry room so I made so pineapple tie another big plant nice pineappley but finished early right so that was like first week of October I got them switched around Betsy was first week of October pineapple ties middle of October and then all the kushes and the sours would be at the end of October so you had a tie that was finishing super fast do you know the history on the pineapple tie at all yeah not at all but when I was going did you find anybody who does yeah it's been floating around northern California for a while but when I was digging through the seeds like it's definitely got some kind of haze in there because some like super like NL5 haze terps would be popping up interesting yeah but besides that I have no idea who brought it what it is or anything like that have you ever had the color before Collins cough Colorado cough yeah cough dog shit how do you think that the cough compares to the pineapple tie sure boys cough they grow the same they grow the same with different finishing times in different flavors and definitely finish different finishing time pineapple ties the earliest sativa looking flavor ever come across spears kind of grows like that metal haze actually but taller yeah yeah the NL5 stuff it might have that or maybe some kind of other haze in it but definitely that flavor pops up when I was first Korean like the first generation of seeds that was coming out but not anymore I don't think you'd be able to find anything like that in the seeds that I have anymore it's just all pine up there yeah I had a question from question from booze on I think comes back to the old Betsy his question was what are your thoughts on a climatizing typically or historically outdoor varieties to suit indoor so in my experience I've noticed not all strains that do great indoor will do good outside I'll give you an example the Humboldt snow Humboldt snow is fucking incredible indoors it's white kind of got this bubba skunkiness flavor to it when it's done really good but when you grow it outside it's it's barely frosty and kind of just has a watered down like wet animal or cardboard smell to it nothing and I've noticed a lot of strains like that where indoor some things do really great but when you take it outside not so great now strains that do really good outside I've noticed do great inside as well so the opposite Betsy was originally made as an indoor commercial like bull rider it's supposed to be the sister allegedly allegedly I've heard so many stories the one that kind of sticks out to me is somebody said white widow super skunk and when I was digging through the seeds I definitely had some white widow looking plants and smells coming out that would be great white shark I think right that great white shark was one of those other ones we were going in Santa Cruz back in the day funny you mentioned that I'm still chasing a great white shark bro still I remember that one you know who actually had another one of those was flat she had one that finished hella early and that was super frosty and that was the end of part one I didn't really want an abrupt ending so I wanted to put something here because I have all of a sudden hit the credits but while I'm here I wanted to make sure to shout out lifted seeds great great seed bank great people there we have right seed bank we have right seed bank we have right seed bank we have right seed bank we have right seed co-Europe we have right seed co-Europe for all of the right seed Europe needs Gert buy seeds on Instagram that's our buddy Matt booze out in Australia for all your Aussie needs we have right seeds.com as well for all of your versatile spray and right seeds gear and all the can illuminati gear all that stuff like that got some new diesel drops coming soon some diesel femmes and yeah dude so much exciting new stuff from breeders mad elite stuff coming in soon the chem d i-95 work plus probably the mobile one work he did and I've been trying to push him to do that for years so I'm super stoked about that we also have in part two there's going to be some good reveals from Shaw because there are things that I thought were common knowledge that aren't necessarily common knowledge and he is the reason a lot of us have some of the most rare clones we do and I think that will be really cool to bring that forward because a lot of people don't know that stuff and maybe maybe you'll see why we hold him in such high esteem also if you have any questions about your seed collections breeders what not we're opening up seed consultations collection consultations giving you some ideas on what you actually have I'm not even sure how we're going to price this or how it's going to work but hit us up in the Patreon discord DM me in discord or on instagram on right seedco make sure no underscores before or after there's all kinds of scammers out there yeah I get asked a lot about this and I know it's a big want from people but it needs to be affordable in some way shape or form so yeah hit me up we'll figure something out and with that we'll see you next week cheers you want to sit at the table with a syndicate? check out our Patreon and our link tree or description 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