 Okay. Austin is present. And Xander, can you, can you hear us? Yes, I can. Thank you very, thank you very much. And we're pleased to be joined by Craig DeCarlo from Collier's and by Angela Mills. Okay. And we have three at this point, three attendees. Thank you very much for coming. The first order of business is the approval of minutes of April 12. Is there a motion to approve the minutes? So moved. Second. Thank you so much. So corrections of the minutes. Okay, I'm going to ask you to signify your approval of the minutes by saying that you approve or yes, George. Approve. Thank you very much, Christine. Approve. Thank you, Alex. Yes. Thank you, Sean. Yes. Anika. Yes. Xander. Yes. Thank you, Sharon. Yes. And Austin votes. Yes. The next item on our agenda is the financial update. From a Sean. Thanks, Austin. So I think for the financial update, we were going to actually turn it over to Collier's Craig. We were thinking that you would just give an update of the, the estimate that we received. The updated cost estimate. Yep. Thank you, Sean. So. What we had was a cost estimate from 2020. Previously that was the most recent cost estimate. And that was, you know, for these schematic. Design level drawings that find, find gold Alexander had produced at the time. That came in at $24.8 million construction cost. As we know, time has passed. We've been about two years since that cost estimate was done. So we sent it to sent the same information to the cost estimator and asked them. To give us an update, basically. So to bring it to modern day understanding of things. And so we did. And that was received recently. And the construction cost has, has increased to 30.3 million. So that's a five and a half or $6 million increase over those past two years. You know, at first blush, that's pretty dramatic. But that is sort of the market that we're in. That's consistent with what we've been seeing on other projects. So although a little alarming, it is, we do think it's a reality. That being said, there are, because the design drawings are so early. And so let's say not fully developed. There's a lot of assumptions baked into that cost estimate, a construction cost estimate. And within those assumptions, there are opportunities to. To modify what the eventual building will cost. Just a high, high level recap. So right now they're looking at, or estimating $411 per square foot for the renovation portion of the work. And five approximately $512 per square foot. For the new construction work. And, you know, if we looked at that a couple of years ago, we would say, well, that's just. Crazy high, but the market has, you know, moved that in that direction of the last couple, even the last couple of months. So I guess one of the things I like to point out is they are including escalation. So there is a 7.8% escalation from now until when construction is anticipated to start, that is something that may happen or may not happen. Depending on what the market does. There's also a 10% design contingency built into that. And what that represents are things that the, our value that the estimator. It's just, just guessing holding up, putting a placeholder in as the design develops. They're assuming that there are things that have not been included now. And then once that's been determined by the design and you guys, that 10% will slowly be reduced in subsequent cost estimates until at bedtime, there's a zero, 0% design contingency. So those are just some of the things that I wanted to point out, sort of high level stuff. And then I'll open it up to questions or other comments. Great, Sean. Craig, do you think based on what you're seeing in the market. This captures the worst of what's going on in the market? Or do you think there's potential, we get another cost estimate in 12 months or six months from now? I'm not sure when the next one would be due and, and we see it's gone up again. Do you think this captures are the worst of the worst of the cost escalation that's been going on out there? So cost escalation is tough to predict. It's notorious. But what I think that the cost estimate includes right now is a conservative understanding of where things are. So only time will tell if the market continues to increase. It's anyone's guess whether it does or not. My personal belief is that, you know, at some point, it won't continue at this kind of breakneck pace of escalation and inflation. But I'm sort of an optimist. So what the cost estimator included, you know, the 7.8% escalation to me seems like, especially compared with other cost estimates for other projects that's on the conservative side. So I think it would sort of use your terms kind of worst case scenario. But with that big asterisk, nobody knows what things will look like in a year. Other questions about the new cost estimate? Anika has her hand up. Thank you, Anika. This may have just been clarified. My volume went out as you started speaking correct. Did you say that the overall estimated increase was 7.8%? No, so that 7.8% is the assumed escalation and cost between today and when we're going to start construction, which is next summer. So up until now, you know, escalation has been very rapid. Historically, it's somewhere in the 4%, 5% range. Last year was something like 9%. So, you know, kind of unheard of. Where everyone's kind of looking to the future saying, okay, will that continue? Is it going to taper off? I think everybody assumes it's going to taper off at some point, but no one really knows exactly where. Okay. Thank you. Sure. Anika, thank you for the question. I just want to make sure I understand what your response is. So if we were to break ground today, my understanding you to be saying that their cost estimate would be 30 million, whatever it is, minus 7.8%. Yes. Okay. My idea is that between now and the time that we anticipate breaking ground, they've built in this cost escalator. Okay. That's right. And I think that that's a practice commonly done in order to, I think avoid that situation that Sean was referring to earlier, whereas, you know, a year from now, or, you know, a couple of months from now, you get another cost estimate. It's like, you know, the market always goes up, right? And so the cost estimates try to predict what things going to, how that's going to change in the future so that you're looking at what it's, you know, ideally the bids that you're going to get a year from now. Right. Alex. Sorry, I'm having a switch over. Can you hear me? Yeah. Sorry. My husband just came home. Sorry to switch your buds. So I, I watched the design subcommittee meeting where there was a little bit of conversation about timeline. And I guess from a outreach perspective, I'm trying to sort of get my arms around. Pre this point, there was sort of, you know, three main things that couldn't change because the NBLC, which was, you know, the building program, you know, the approximate square footage and the location. And we have a schematic design and have spent a certain amount with the architects and I guess I'm trying to get a sense of looking at the cost escalation that we're looking at. Does that change sort of feedback from the community? I mean, like in theory, we could start over with a new design as long as we met the building program and the square footage, but to the extent that we already have a design, you know, relatively speaking, like the massing, the general overall exterior kind of thing. I guess I was trying to figure out like, because of these cost escalations, does it change sort of either the timeline that we have in terms of the project or does it make us lean toward. The schematics in one way or another. I'm just trying to understand sort of what it means. Correct. Sure. So as far as the timeline, I would say this doesn't change anything. So, you know, the, I actually, I recently put together a graphic on the schedule, which I think we can, I can hopefully share later with you guys or share with the public. The, and that builds in a certain amount of time for the designers to do their thing and then time for construction. I don't think we can speed that up very much. And you know, the other option then would be to kind of push it out, but pushing it out is only going to exacerbate things because even though we're in a period of great inflation and great escalation, I don't think anyone predicts that it's going to go down. So each month. That goes by or each year that goes by. For the amount of money you guys have, you're going to get less and less building. So just sort of waiting, kind of holding onto that money. And all right, let's see what happens a year from now. Is not a good strategy. So I think the timeline is, you know, as quick as we can, can move and get the project going. The better off the town's going to be the more you're going to get for your dollar. Sorry, Craig, I think that the other part of Alex's question is not just about time. So find gold Alexander is now going to be beginning the work of revising the schematics informed by substantial public outreach effort. I think what Alex was saying is that in terms of what we're saying to the public. Is it reasonable to continue to go forward with the schematics that we've had. And say, well, this is, you know, these are the schematics. We're going to be working off of these to further develop them. Are they reliable in that sense, given this cost, cost escalation. Issue. Yes, I think the idea is the, you know, and we've tried to frame, you know, the public outreach that if someone we're not looking, I mean, how to phrase it, if somewhere to say, oh, we should add an even larger area to the library, I think that would be something that we would have to say no to even before kind of this latest cost estimate. So those types of comments would be kind of out of bounds or off, you know, and easy no. There are other things, materiality, which I think is still open for public comment. But if the public comment is we want, say, you know, copper skin, you know, real copper, that's a very expensive product. We might have to say on the design side, well, we can give you the look for look of copper with this more cost effective product. So those types of comments are still welcome, but how you decide to, and the design team decides to respond to them might be, okay, we can give you that, but we've got to be cost effective about it. And there's always on every project, there's always that balance between how much, you know, what you want the building to be, and then how much it costs. And so I think on this project, there'll be no different will still be that public input will still be impactful, but there will be some things that, you know, the town or the building committee will have to say no to just because we're constrained by costs. But it is reliable for Alex on the 1st of May, and the outreach subcommittee to present to the public. So we have a lot of the existing schematics. Yes. Okay. Good. Thank you. Christine. So coming at it from the design subcommittee. So I noticed, you know, it says that it's already, you know, like $6 million going to cost more. And I noticed in the report, they suggest alternative one, and then I was like, ooh, are there more alternatives? I mean, there's only one. And it was, you know, wood structure instead of steel makes sense. And it was like a half million dollar savings. So I'm thinking, oh, six, that's a half. So will there be more alternatives that come? And are they delivered to us sort of that way? And so when they come to the design subcommittee, how are we going to get those? How are we expected to weigh in on those? And I also sort of remember at the last meeting, FAA talking about like eight weeks for schematic. Again, it's that timeline thing. So how that's just sounds like tomorrow. But so how is this all going to work? Certainly. Awesome. That was a lot. Yeah. I'll do my best Austin with your permission. I'll take a crack at that. Yeah. Yeah. We are, we are waiting with, as we said, baited breath Craig. So. So the first part of the question. Christine was. About the. That alternate one. Doing timber instead of typical steel construction. And that is a below the line alternate. So what that means is that 30.3 million construction costs did not include that. So we'd actually, if you, if we do go the route of timber now, we're at 30.8 million. And so. You know, that. That would be one that we'd have to think long and hard about what else is the town willing to give up in order to go with the timber frame construction. With the topic, talking about the schematic design process being eight weeks. So that's a week that hasn't started yet. So what we actually, we had a couple of recent discussions with, with Sharon, and we had one with. And BLC today. Talking about kind of big concept program. Questions. And. Fine gold Alexander is looking to get direction on, on those various things before. They start that eight week clock and then the eight week clock. Yes, we'll be very, we'll be, you know, go by quickly, but there'll be lots of meetings and opportunities to talk about. The various decisions that, that can be made. Getting back to sort of the cost question. Yes, there will be lots of different ideas that, that fine gold Alexander will provide. Ways to reduce the costs of the, of the project. So they're aware of that cost estimate. They've taken a look at it as well. They're already, they've got the gears turning what, you know, how can we be creative? Or how can they be creative to give you guys. All alternatives to reduce the overall project cost. And then in the end, if we find that, because there'll be a number of cost estimates that we do between now and when the project goes out to bid. The idea is where, where each step we're getting more definition, more certainty on how the building is going together. And a better understanding, sort of a sharpening of the pencil of how much things are going to cost. And then each step of the way, if we say, oh, we're still a cost estimate is exceeding our budget for construction. Let's put the thinking cap on what else can we do? What else can we be more efficient and effective about. And find gold Alexander, not to speak for them, but they, but they did. At least earlier today, they expressed confidence that they could make it work, that they can give you guys a building design that's going to fit within your budget. So that being said, the technical term is, you know, value engineering. So we'll have a series of processes where we look at the cost estimate, we look at what the building is and say, you know, where can we reduce costs? So it'll be a process. There will be some difficult decisions to make, but the process is set up in a way that you guys will be able, will be informed along the way and have the opportunity to continue to make adjustments as we. Proceed towards the ultimate goal of getting the construction documents out to bed. Before calling on a Nica and Xander Christine, does that, it was that helpful to you? It was, and I just have one question off of it that actually doesn't go back to Craig. It kind of goes to Alex and the outreach. So what I'm hearing is this is the world we're living in, you know, it never enough money. So when you're soliciting the public for all of their input, you know, it's always about, I want this, I want this, I want this, I want this and adding more. I hope that the public is hearing us a little about this and they can also give us feedback on what they could live without. You know, it's not just a shopping list, but also, you know, or a prioritization of certain things are more important than other things because it sounds like this is going to be a tremendous balance between have, you know, building with the money we have and making people happy. And just to say out loud, the public outreach process is going to be iterative. It's not a one time and then hold your peace. So as the design moves forward and we're consulting with the public, we may at particular times be able to ask, here are the choices that we have. And what is it that the views are? So Anika and then Xander and then Sean, Anika. So yes, in regards to the outreach, I have a question looking for clarity around the concern that has been brought up by some community members. And that is around the teen space. And that somehow is there a conflict or competition in regards to a larger town youth center, specifically around a body park center. And so my understanding is that the teen space. Was established back in 2015 in collaboration with youth. And. And also that is required by the Mbalc. Approved program. So, and, and just opinion based, you know, I'm thinking more with public libraries. It's very common space to have a youth center. And so my understanding is that the teen space. Was established back in 2015 in collaboration. With the Mbalc. And so my understanding is that it's very common space to have a youth center. You know, a youth space, rather a teen space. And, you know, therefore, separate or take away, you're actually limiting the options for our area of youth. But I think that especially in regards to the, the upcoming outreach event, it would be nice to have clarity, especially around people that either may have, or maybe may not have that in their minds. So there's kind of not a, a thought out there that this, you know, Teen space as it is. Is something that had been recently included. And that, you know, it actually what, you know, we're going to like, I always think like sometimes adults, like we'll mess it up and we're really looking for like the input. You know, from, from the teens to give us. examples and suggestions and thoughts about what they would like to see. Sharon, did you want to say anything in response to Anika's comment? Yeah, sure. Thank you, Anika. I love, I love everything that you just said. I'm glad that you brought it up. It's true. It is a requirement as part of our project. We can't eliminate the teen space. It is, it's, it's very much a part of public library services across the country. And, you know, every year there's more and more information out there about how, you know, teenagers are not adults and they're not children. And so they need their own spaces and, and, and so teenagers are our patrons. And so this is a wonderful way of us being able to serve the teens. So yeah, it doesn't, it's completely separate from a teen community center for the town. Thank you. Senator. I guess two, two things and I don't know if this is so much a question is just me expressing my own anxiety out loud. The, I mean, we're talking about from the outreach perspective. A lot of our conversation has been how do we include those who haven't necessarily been included in the conversation so far, as well as to keep engaging those who have been. One thing I want to just really be mindful of is that given this recent cost estimate that we still preserve the spirit of including new voices without just inviting them to come to cost saving meetings, if you will, because it's one thing to invite people to make a shopping list. It's another thing to invite people once you've got too much stuff on the shopping list to just come to put things back, right. And the other thing that I just wanted to say is that I mean we're talking about a 20% increase like this is 20 cents on the dollar in a town where contract negotiations aren't keeping up with current inflation never mind escalation looking outwards. And so I am curious like, as a parent to young people who sometimes put too much stuff on their plate. There is the idea of like well what if you only ate this and the negotiating down of that but at some point you've got to say dinner time is over. I was just wondering like, what is our exit plan, if we can't get this back towards a budget that that is feasible. Can I add the Austin because my question was very similar to what Alexander, and maybe gets to what he's asking. I was going to ask the same lines. At what point, Craig will we know whether we can reduce 20% of construction costs and have a project that everyone's happy with it will be at the end of schematic design where we'll see what that looks like and what strategies were deployed to reduce the cost. I think that Alexander's or is Andrew's point like, when will we know what it looks like and then people decide if this is a project we still want to support. May I just interrupt one sec. So I, I heard Craig say something and I just want to make sure I understood it. What Craig was saying to us is, we should not overreact to this cost estimate. It would be a mistake to overreact to this cost estimate. The cost estimate will change the cost estimate will get more accurate. I also heard Craig say that a final Alexander is quote optimistic that they can make our project work. And what does that mean make our project work that doesn't just mean, you know, keep it within the budget and like, you know, straw. And that'll be our library make our project work means realize the vision that the MVLC is funding. So Craig may have a different answer but that's what I heard him saying that we're not now in a position where, you know, we kind of got to run for the hills because we're $6 million over budget. That'd be $6 million over budget as the design as the design gets more refined. So Craig did I did I hear that correctly. Yes, I think you did a very good job Austin summarizing kind of my main points and making it very succinct. There will be some tough choices that need to be made along the way, but there will be multiple opportunities to do that and I in Sean you're right so at schematic design so later in the schematic design process. Let's see. Actually I can't remember when the next cost estimate is, but perhaps it's at halfway through dd design development which is after schematic design. There's another kind of point in time where we'll be able to see all right, what steps have the design team taken to, and in the library building committee taken to keep the project forable, and it's kind of like a reality check you get another cost estimate. Until then there'll be another opportunity to say all right, those work but we still need to come down or. Yes, now we're on target. So it will be a process that happens over the course of the next year. At any point if things aren't going in the right direction, people start feeling uncomfortable, we can have that discussion at that time and say okay, let's take another hard look at this. It's going to be going down a path that is not in the is not going to serve the town well, and then decide what to do about it. So I would, I would so with you until the last go around. And again I just want to make sure I understand you are an experienced person in this world. I thought I understood you to be saying that they perhaps you are confident at this point. They've seen this before this is not a this is not something I haven't seen. They're confident at this point that we can realize the vision of the library. So I'm just myself would would not think at this point we would be talking about we're going to face some decision point which we say. Oops. And I just want to make sure I've got that right that you are confident and they are confident at this point that savings can be realized that the cost estimate will get more active. The cost estimate will get more accurate. And by the way there's another thing which we haven't talked about which is the possibility of raising more money. So, but you are confident that those lines will intersect in a way that we will have a project that realizes the vision. Yes, I think with all projects the goals kind of maximize what you what you're getting for the amount of money that you're spending. There will be no different. Those decision points that I was talking about are more. Let's say micro adjustments. So the goal is, you know, a library that does everything that you guys want it to do and fulfill your vision and fills the MBLC vision. So we're going along the way as we're going that there do there are opportunities there will be a point in time where you where the design team and my office will be presenting to you guys all right. Here's a decision we need to make based on the way the market's going or based on the way the design is shaping up or based on the next cost estimates. There are times where we have to make where you guys are called to make tough decisions on that balance that I was speaking of, you know, the cost of the project versus, you know, the quality that you're getting. So those are the decision points I was referring to. Thank you. Sharon. Yeah, I just wanted to reiterate what and agree with what Craig said we did meet with the MBLC this afternoon and I was a tad bit concerned over the $6 million, but they absolutely reassured me in less than a minute. No, listen Sharon, this is the process this is very normal. This is based on a set of it's not the schematics aren't even complete yet. And you're a year out and there will still be more cost estimates that will come out and they said Sharon this is what we do. It's happening everywhere so it's really it calm me down immediately. Thank you. Okay, okay, anything else on the cost estimate. Well thank you and thanks Craig for presenting it showing back to you do we have an invoice to approve. Yes, we do so we have the March invoice I'll just put it on the screen real quick. Thank you with the March invoice from collars. And there's a breakdown of services that were performed during the month and again it's, it's sort of a recurring amount each month so it's roughly 10,000 978 dollars per month so this would be the second month for approving. Great. And Sean do you want to move that we approve the payment of the invoice. I move that we approve payment for the March invoice to collars. Is there a second second. Okay, are there any questions about the invoice. Okay, Sean if you could just not if you could take it off the screen share for a minute. Yeah. Thank you so much. Okay, so I'm going to ask you to approve the recommendation to pay the invoice you do not George. Christine. Thank you, Alex. Yes, Sean. Sharon. Yes. Anika. Yes, Xander. Yeah. And Austin says yes. Okay. Thank you so much. All right, next item on the agenda is more from collars. You're muted, Craig. Is that the schedule item. So next on the agenda is project schedule and interim locations that the, the things that are there month to month I mean we are needing to meet. Fantastic. Okay, so if with your permission I'll share my screen and I'll quickly go through our schedule. Thank you. Maximize it so we can see as best we can. All right. Can you guys see that. Oh, no, you can't. There we go. Can you see that? Yeah. All right. So, here's the latest schedule graphic on the left hand side we've got the various phases. I'll get to this in a moment the public commentary design phases what we're currently in after that comes bidding after that construction, and then things like move in occupancy and then finally close out. Those are our call. It's our first column across the top we have the years. The months and year so this actually should say so timeline description should say timeline description 2022, which is the where we are. I'll add on for our next update I'll add on a red line that shows where we are in that process and it will track across each month with my report. We go out through 2023 2024 is condensed down the only thing happening then is is construction, and then 2025 is when we wrap things up. So as I was mentioning earlier this blue row here, we're in design phase we're just about to begin that schematic design SD phase. All so now getting to this public commentary something that we had talked about at the last meeting was showing a visual to help everyone understand kind of when that public commentary will be most impactful. So right now, or you know beginning any day now once we start schematic design, we are in the period of greatest overall project, greatest impact to the overall project. Sooner the comments come in and are evaluated. The better because that allows the design team to incorporate them into that that the foundations of the project. Then once we get to design development where we can still accept public comment it still will have an impact, but now it'll be more about sort of the color selections interior materials, kind of look and feel stuff. And then we've got this this sloping off. So as we move through design development phase by time we get about halfway through design development. The time where public comment will have the most impact will be over. I do think there is a value to continuing to solicit public comment. Because a term I was using earlier so those micro adjustments micro adjustments will still be possible, sort of in the design phase. Once we get to construction documents that CD phase at that point, public comments will not have much of an impact at all. This construction document phase is a time when find go to Alexander takes all the information they learned over the previous, let's say, eight months, and then starts putting him into a format that can be put out to bid. And so it's really a documentation phase and no longer a design phase, even though it's considered part of the design period. So up here, I've put in a small graphic for the five anticipated MBLC grant disbursements MBLC has criteria for each one of these disbursements. And so based on a more detailed schedule, which we developed in order to create this graphic. So it's, you know, this upcoming summer, next summer, the summer of 2024 and then to in 2025 sort of at the end of construction once the building has been occupied, and then once all the closeout is done, that final 20% fifth disbursement. So, that's where we are. Great. So questions to Craig about the schedule. Looking to see if Alex. Thanks, Craig. This is actually super helpful. So I guess the thing that I want to make sure of so we have our May 1 event which is in the library, and the plan right now is the town is working through the crest director and through the CPOs on summer events out in the various apartment complexes and so for us that was an opportunity that we were looking at sort of taking our show on the road and really getting to the communities who may not otherwise have opportunities to, you know, come and give their, their feedback. And those are scheduled over the summer we don't have the dates yet I don't know if Angela knows what those dates yet. There isn't the one working on it but so our plan was to take sort of the bulk of going out which I think is really important in the summer. And it looks like that's still okay based on on this chart and I just want to make sure that's the case. Yes, that is the case. So information collected in the summer will still have a good impact, strong impact on the design process. So through mid July is that the way I'm in my like, like for me I just want to have a date like how many can we get in by accident to make sure that we're, you know, able to get the design team and the feedback that they need. Yeah, I would say if you're looking for kind of a target, I would say, you know that Fourth of July weekend everything you get in before the Fourth of July will be most helpful. And then after that break, then we'll start focusing more on interior elements and less about the overall projects. Can I ask a clarifying question so never mind. Could I just say and again I know this is not the desirable thing. But it is right Craig it's all also always possible, not desirable. If we were not ready to say to find gold Alexander you got to slow down you need another two weeks or three weeks to solicit comments and digest them. Not desirable, but possible, is that right. I recommend strongly against it just because as I was saying earlier, you know, time is money in the construction industry, especially in the environment where I end with high escalation, but also find gold Alexander their time is money as well. So yes, it would be possible to say hey, to hit the brakes a little bit we want some more time to design or incorporate ideas. There would be a dollar cost associated with it and by the way public comment also means us doesn't it. Certainly. Right. So what what we're looking at is not only for the kind of outreach that we're, we're going to undertake but for us. So we've got to digest it and be able to give them our reactions Christine. So, with that, I heard beginning of July, but that public comment or these comments and thoughts have to be compiled. And then I'm assuming sent to like the design subcommittee who have to absorb it or do something with it and then recommendations have to be made to the building committee as a whole. So all that does also take time. So I'm sticking with it, it's still, you know, ideally beginning of July that outreach sort of starts slowing down or can deliver all their comments. I kind of agree. I mean, Austin, I think you always can, you know, things happen, but I think we need to be cautious and when we use that break and slow things down or ask for more time. We really have to almost pretend I think that that isn't the happen. And if it has to it has to, but time is money and when you start messing with the schedule, it starts affecting so many things supplies money. So we need to do what we're doing plan and due diligence try to get a really smart way to handle this and smooth, you know, as smoothly as we can process all this. Great. Thank you Christine. Other questions about the schedule. Just want to make sure I'm seeing everybody. Okay, I do not see any Christine are you. Do you have another question. I just have one. I think across phase have to be that long, like, so where we were talking about where are there areas that have a little bit of adjustment that maybe can, you know, so Craig where, where are there little areas that maybe could strike. The, the three months is kind of a rule of thumb. It's, there may be the opportunity to shave a week or two out of that, but that's not only putting the bids out to the pump to the contractors, but that's also time for you guys to evaluate the bids. And then award a bid awarded to a particular contractor so that's all into in that phase. Thank you. Thank you Christine. Okay, other thoughts about the schedule the questions about the schedule. Okay, I am not seeing anyone's hand. Okay Craig if you could take down the schedule thank you so much. Is there anything to be said about the identification the interim location. We have not spent much of our time in the last say two weeks on that but that is something that will begin begin working on soon. And soon means roughly when. So now that we've kind of hammered out the so that we've got this information on the cost we've hammered out the schedule there. That is something we can now start looking at with with more intensity. George. This actually goes back to the schedule question because I knew we were going to talk about interim locations but at what point. At what point do we commit to spaces does that happen before the bidding process. And we just, if we don't get awarded bid we just don't use the spaces or at what point do we have to commit to those offset locations. Okay, so I have my detailed schedule and assumption about when we would have a location selected, because presumably there'll be some work that needs to be done at that location to prepare it. There'll be a big move effort to bring a portion, or as much of the collection as possible over, get everything set up so that I don't have it off the top my head but yes there is a there is sort of a date when we would need to have that location selected so that we can do all those other preparatory things in time for us to clear out the existing building. So that the contractor can begin their work. So, but that's something I'll look into for the next meeting is give you guys a time frame when, when we we've got to have those decisions made. Thanks, Alex. Yeah, so for the temporary location slash temporary services is there a timeline we had talked about getting public input around, you know, sort of priorities while the building is closed so is there a time frame by which, if we're going to ask the public questions or include that as part of our outreach is there a time by which we need to have that information. Craig. Yes. So, I'll sort of block that out as part of my sort of sub schedule for that temporary location. I'll block out. So the ideal time to get input for that. Great. And that'll bring that to the committee in our next meeting in two weeks. Yes. Okay. Thank you. Okay, other questions about the interim locations. Okay, Craig. Thank you very much. Next are our subcommittee reports. Christine from the design subcommittee. Okay, so we had our first meeting a couple weeks ago on the 15th. So it ended up being kind of a meet and greet for the most part with find gold Alexander who came and was on the zoom with us the project manager, Ellen Anselon was there and her assistant Josephine and one of Jim Alexander, one of the founders. And I think that's where I support also. So, in general, we went over the document that has since gone out to people the sort of inviting public comment, giving some idea for the public to gauge how to best give their thoughts on what they want in a library. And the May 1st event. And then there was a lot of talk about how schematic design will happen. And then what immediately follows so there were these four points where you finalize, or is the building committee will finalize the schematic design. So that is done and then you get MBLC involved and, you know, they give kind of a check and then there would be the Amherst historical commission committee that would give their input and that would go to the message oracle. And then once you get all those approvals and any adjustments then it would move on to that next design phase that Craig was explaining to us. And that's pretty much what we did and the next meeting will be again this Friday at 9am, the 29th. Thank you Christine questions for the design subcommittee. Alex. This is a procedural question. So, in terms of feedback from members of this committee around design, like I don't know whether it's okay for us to participate as a member get, or as a, as a attendee and then like, does it then become a larger meeting if, if I speak at the design subcommittee meeting or like I just want to proceed really how does that work. That's a good point. I believe but but again, Christine do you know the answer to that question. I don't actually I mean how we on other committees have been Alex could come and talk as a regular person. I mean, I guess the common ground is we're both on the building committee but is it okay if she's coming as a chair of a different committee. She's becoming as a, as a member of the public, not as a chair of any other committee. Angie, do you have an answer to this question. I think we always are on the side of caution and if we reach a quorum of the whole at a subcommittee meeting then we posted as both. If there's deliberation going on. So, I think the other way to do it is to during report, the report out here of the subcommittee to then open it up for full discussion here and avoid that overlap the subcommittee meeting. Alex, does that help you. It does. So does that mean I can make a comment now. It depends on what it is. Yeah, go ahead. I just wanted to, to, to, to. I listened to the design subcommittee meeting and one thing I wanted to make sure was being addressed is that in the original design work. There were gendered bathrooms and I know back on design and feasibility that I brought up making sure that we have gender free bathrooms that's in keeping with sort of how things are today and. I just want to make sure that that didn't get dropped and that's still that that's it's being addressed as we revise the schematics. I'll say is I think that type of topic will generate discussion as we get further into the details of design maybe Craig can answer this. I know building code also in, you know, there's a lot of factors that play into that Craig do you have any insight how that will roll out. Well, one thing that I am aware of is that the plumbing code does not consider gender free bathrooms within the male and female count bathroom counts. And so, if you're required to have eight and eight, the gender free bathroom would be like a knife. I'm not 100% up to speed on whether or not a bathroom can be a single stall bathroom, if it needs to be identified as one or the other, but that this this is a big topic in the industry, and I'm sure find gold Alexander has is as well verse in it, better verse than it than I am. So, yes, that's something that we will discuss with them as the design progresses. So that will be down the road. If Alex if that helps you, I think there'll be that and other topics like that that will end up is like specific agenda items that where they'll be better to explain to us and the public, the factors that are not changeable and that are flexible. Alex, are you satisfied with those answers. Yeah, so when we spoke to find gold Alexander back, however many years ago it was, they similarly said what you said, Craig, which I wasn't satisfied with them right so Amherst cinema are public schools like all of these places have I mean if you go to Amherst cinema, you can go into the bathroom you want right. And so, I know that there's code to contend with but I'm like saying we can't do it or we need you know an alternate bathroom, I don't find to be a satisfactory answer so if in the five years we're working on this we need to be soliciting our legislators to change the So, I don't I don't want this to be something down the line because the number of bathrooms that we have potentially changes if we have gender free bathrooms right and and treating, you know, a gender free bathroom as as an extra is not in my opinion, universal design and welcoming everybody right. The sooner we're having that conversation because it very much impacts the schematics right bathrooms are a big deal. So I don't think it's a layer of conversation I think it's the next time we talk to find gold like we need to make sure they're on the same page, and there's a priority around that. To me this is very helpful and what I tried to do at the design meeting is at this point I'm trying not to get into the weeds too much because I hear your, you know, your passion I think a lot of people and this is it's being talked about like Craig said and a lot of buildings and unfortunately it's not like crystal clear, but it there are this choice in it. So, this is part of, I think what the public feedback we're so is a demo, I'm just being protective of the design committee a little bit like we I hear you and there's going to be a lot of people who have their points that they feel very passionate about and we're going to have to figure out a way how we compile these and sort of deliver them to the design community to way out because it really does come down in the end to the rules and money and and you're right like how much Craig again I'm not sure I think gender their single bathrooms and not like the group that's sort of what Craig was saying like so it you're right it will impact the design, and this is where we have to tell people to find gold Alexander, you know, maybe give us some options. What, what are some ways to look at this like all gender freedom or part or it, you know, I think it's just about pushing back to them and getting them to give them some options to chew on Xander, Xander. Oh, sorry, the trying to balance kid pick up at the same time, our smallest patrons also deserve to come home. The, but I just, I wanted to say like I hear that. I want to self identify like my own triggers around this right that like, this is not a point of passion. Like, this is a point of our values and I think that when when we're not committed about those things, even at this age, but are willing to commit to the fact that somehow we'll save 20 cents on the dollar. Because the, that's just the world we live in. It tells us that we are more willing to accept inflation than our patrons, and I, I'm not comfortable with that if one of our central values in this project is going to be inclusivity. I can't say Christine, I'm sorry to just interrupt. I frankly think we don't. I mean, again, with all due respect to Craig, I didn't think that was a helpful answer. So I think that the helpful thing to say is to say to Craig. We have heard a strong sentiment expressed on the committee. Well, come back to us tell us what, what it is that final Alexander is thinking about of gender for gender inclusive bathrooms. And then we can, we can argue about it he says well you can't do this or that but I just think right now. What we want to say to Craig or the final Alexander is there's a strong sentiment expressed. We'd like you to be responsive to that. And that way we don't have to, you know, argue about whether it's a values thing or or intent to preference thing. Let's get find go Alexander on the, on the, on the path of trying to produce gender inclusive bathrooms for this for this building. And then we'll see what the, what the trade offs or what the code saying what the rest of it is Christine. So again, I don't want this to come off as that we're fighting or arguing like that's not what's happening. We're hearing a strong feeling about something and we'll have lots of these right as soon as we get into the net zero and all the sustainability issues again a lot of passions going to arise and it's going to happen over over again and it's about compromise and we're going to have to figure out I mean there's the perfect world and having everything and not and I'm not just talking about the bathrooms I'm talking about everything. So what we're asking is for Craig to make clear some of, and I think some of this is going to have to come across in recommendations or something Austin because you can't just, we can't just get all up in passion here and start telling Craig to keep running to them and asking for things we sort of have to decide well is this something that works feels so strongly about that we're making like a motion or recommendation, because we'll keep doing this. I mean right now it's bathrooms and they're very important, but there's lots of things that as we go through this so we need to figure out a good way to handle it. I think what we need is, I think, I think what we need is more information that's what I was asking Craig to get us. But maybe that's a design committee that's what we have to decide decide again or we'll end up having super long meetings that we don't want to be getting to all the weeds so Craig, how do you see this going what would be helpful to you for us to ask you for these things and go to find gold Alexander. So on this particular issue, I will write away alert find well it I'm not sure if they have already, if they're already aware of the tires or the groups desires with us, but if not I will make sure that that is clear to them, but then I agree with Christine that this is a topic that we should discuss in the design subcommittee, and then bring that bring a recommendation back to this committee. And with all the information, we can even ask find gold Alexander if it's particularly complex issue that we want to understand all the nuances, we can have them attend one of these meetings and kind of walk us through that. But right now, I'll bring that information to find Alexander and get great thinking about it. I just wanted to make a suggestion. The design committee that it could be helpful to just look overall at design and things like, you know, all gender neutral bathrooms of may seem like something to negotiate about I'm just looking like on a larger scale where they might be newer for this project that kind of overall but all these are things that are just kind of commonplace and expected. So maybe just kind of keeping like in mind what, you know what those things like looking ahead if there's any way that these are identified so they can be lumped so it's you know, the credit not running back and forth and there's this disconnect and it doesn't turn into an argument because you know, they'll really be expected to be a brand new fabulous library and we wouldn't want certain things to seem dated, you know, you know, so I think that that could, you know, help to look through that lens of looking ahead and making sure that, you know, we're in line with not only being inclusive of being up to date. Alex requested information. She said she wanted to make sure this had not been forgotten. I'm sure it hasn't been forgotten. So, after you talk to find gold Alexander. Let's keep that in mind for one of our future agendas for the design committee so that we make sure it gets discussed. Absolutely. Great. And just remember what we just heard procedurally, procedurally, what we heard is that if people have members of this committee have questions about the design. They're going to ask them in this meeting, because of the problem that Angie just alerted us to. So, let's just, let's just remember that I mean that's what we just were, we were just instructed to do so. Okay, any other, any other questions about design. All right, fabulous. Thank you very much Christine outreach. So we haven't had a meeting since the last building committee meeting that's on me because I was gone. But I do want to push obviously our, our May one outreach event. That's from 12 to two, and we are super excited. We through very generous volunteers were able to have our flyer translated into five languages, which was great. We were able to get it out in the superintendent newsletter through all the PGOs restaurants and local businesses posted it went out on social media and various and sundry places. In terms of staffing on the tables we have, I think, over like 22 volunteers in addition to library staff that's coming in. We have, you know, Earl Miller from Crest and Teresa Sadler from the literacy project at our social work table we've got Hailey Bolton from the senior center in our senior table we've got Jane Wald from Amherst historic at our historic table. We've got Marty Smith from the disability access advisory committee for our universal design table. We've got Melinda Reed from UMass landscape architecture at our landscape table and we have the local author who did Planeta blue which is a young adult graphic novel who's going to be there hoping to draw in some teams. We have teams who are coming and actually are going to be staffing the team table to collect feedback and information from other teams. We have Dr. Shabazz and Tweedy and Anika's mom Debra Bridges coming for the special collections table so we're super excited. We have people who voted in favor of the library project staffing these tables we have people who voted against the library project staffing these tables. The chair of the committee for save our library and vote no very graciously agreed to share the flyer and announcement with their entire mailing list so you know we've hopefully are going to have a really nice turnout for this event. And it's very much a community based event of community talking to community about their hopes and dreams. We have pictures from other libraries that have been renovated and expanded that will be up to sort of spark conversations and ideas, because I think a lot of people don't necessarily know what is happening in libraries these days and so the idea is that to see something go oh wow yeah I do want that or this is what I want or hope for so. And then we also oh yeah we have also Meg Gage and Mary Sayer who are also going to be contributing to the universal design table so yeah I didn't list everybody but yeah super excited so anybody has any questions hopefully everybody here will come. Yeah. Thank you Christine. So we're all allowed it's posted we're all allowed to come because I've already said I will come and help because you Alex had said some of her tables could use some more people. So that's okay we can come it's a posted meeting. Austin, Angie. It's not it's not a posted meeting because there isn't any deliberation going on you're having conversations and you're disseminating information, and you're asking for feedback so to my knowledge it's not a posted meeting it's a community event and members shouldn't be talking to members you should be interfacing with the public. I think we're good to roll I can double check that I can run it by Council if you'd like me to, but I think because you're not talking to each other, and because you're not voting on anything I think you're good to roll. Right. But that does that does really caution us not to hear an idea and go over to Alex and and and Sharon and say you know that I think this is a really good idea. Right. So I think that's the caution. If you know somebody drops a post it note and you want to go over to Alex and say you know I think some drop the post it note that's fine but let's not be discussing the ideas that we hear in that venue. Christine. No, that's well said so that's good to clarify because we're new at this and, and it is sensitive so none of us will feel slighted if we're ignoring each other a little. I love that the Open Meetings Act is a great tutorial for high school students at dances this is why you don't just hang out with your click in the corner. Okay, other questions about outreach or other suggestions about the outreach event. Yeah, I just also want to add that most if not all of our town counselors will also be at the event. Not at any of the tables we've suggested that they circulate and listen and participate with community members. So really just trying to make this as you know. Yeah, as successful as possible. Okay, and great thanks to the outreach committee to Alex and Anika and Xander in particular and the town staff that has helped generate what will be a just fabulous event and a great start to a townwide conversation about this great library. Next item is item six correspondence. I don't have any correspondence the committee doesn't have any correspondence so I don't think topics not anticipated by the chair 48 hours in advance, nothing. So next would be public comment we have four members of the public in attendance thank you for attending any public comment. Okay, I see no indication of a member of the public wanting to make a comment at this point. Okay, so with great thanks for a very good meeting, a very important meeting of emotion to adjourn. So moved. Second, second. Good. Okay, Sharon. Agreed. Yes. Yes, so on. Yes, Xander. Yep. Alex. Yes, Christine. Goodbye. But goodbye, George. Yes. And Austin, Angie thank you as always for your indispensable help. Thank you Craig for all the work that you're doing. So, thank you everybody. We're adjourned. Thank you.