 Can I share some experience? Yeah please, please. Because one of the things that I told you in the morning that as a head of business education at ITPOMP, I transmitted 5,000 hours of live instruction as it happened. The reason why we did that was Professor Anishwarya Sikoli, in the general model on his TCS, sorry College of Engineering and considered as father of ITP. He said that I COEP students wanted IIT experience and IIT experience can only come through live transmission, not through recorded, going through recorded things. So he said that when you transmit, I want our students to see that IIT professors also make mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes, number one. The second one he said, I want my students to see that IIT professors crack jokes, that you are not to be serious all the time. The third thing he said, at the same time I want my students to see that every lecture is delivered on time, every lecture is delivered and delivered on time so that they would ask their faculty members, why do you refuse? It can happen anywhere but he said that obviously if you are transmitting it live, we will ensure that we don't make mistakes. Anyway, finally the faculty members can also ask questions. Look, IIT students are doing so much work, why are we refusing to do the homework? So he said live transmission. My problem was if IIT students went and complained outside. Look, I came through JEE, what do you mean by transmitting the course to the outside world? Okay, it reduces my quality, it reduces my understanding. Whether there is truth, whether there is any truth or not, it will become the front page news. Okay, I have seen. Then immediately we will be asked to shut off. So one of the things that I wanted to do was what are the things that we should do so that the students do not complain. Our students do not complain. In fact, we did it such a great way. Finally the students ended up telling, would come and tell me that person is very good. Why don't you please record this also? Because whenever somebody participated in this program, the quality of delivery became very good for our own students. It became very good for outside world also. Because it was so good, they told us. But it took a lot of time. So what I am saying is if you want to spread this, there has to be quite a bit of marketing, quite a bit of convincing, hand holding. One of the things that we used to do was, I mean very simple thing, as a faculty member, often I would just go and teach whatever I want. I mean, there is some curriculum, there is something. But so long as you have freedom, but here if you have to do it online, it has to be delivered. I would like to tell people, I would request all the faculty members, please give me, if not daily schedule, at least a weekly schedule, or at least say that I am going to teach three lectures on root lockers. Four lectures on, like this plot, or three lectures on body plot, or whatever it is. So you have an approximate. So there is a requirement of some planning that happens in such courses, especially when it is shared with a lot of people. So what I am saying is even if the, although people said that MOOCs means it may be some 20 times and so on, even if it doesn't happen, even with a little bit more effort, let's say 20-30% more effort, it is possible to make our courses not better. And that is a beneficial consequence of participating in all this and sharing it with a lot of people, recording it and so on. It is a lot better with a little bit of effort can be made a lot better. And that will happen. The second thing is we used Moodle extensively. We conducted training for the educators, the teachers. Okay, you should go through this. In fact, one of the things we used to do was record every person and for half an hour ask that person to see. It was a service. So this kind of services can be made available to everybody, which will benefit the teachers as well as students. And this kind of mechanism probably should be established in all institutions. Probably M.H.R.D. can think about establishing such an infrastructure which will provide, even if you don't talk about high-tech, high-funded thing, just a little bit that can improve the quality of these courses immensely, the delivery, education experience. So the teachers have spoken to in other colleges and other universities. Many of them, it's almost like a confession that I tell you. I didn't even know what Moodle's horse came and confessed to me that they were not uploading what they were doing like Moodle's. So why did I feel that it is something of a burden to do? No, it takes time to do that. When I took over as the head of CDE, we used to transmit only three or four courses a semester. And in 2008 fall semester, autumn semester, 50 people had assembled. They were ready to deliver their courses like. And Professor Ray was amazed. 50 people came simultaneously. I can't believe it. So what I'm saying is there is quite a bit of what fitting what to do, quite a bit of convincing, hand-holding. And infrastructure in case it wants to. Sorry, there is one other very important thing that I should tell. In all this, if you look at the effort involved in creating a course, what are the components? It may be recording, it may be editing, it may be uploading, so on, if you look at all of that and there is also delivery. One of the things we used to do was, I used to say that you can come at each any number of times. We are ready to record every time. We are ready to edit every time. Even though that is a lot of work, I will happily accommodate you. Then what happened was they used to come in larger numbers. The second time they did better, the third time they did even better. The other thing that I did was I told all my staff members, we are a service center, you can't say no to anybody. If somebody says, I want to do this, if it is yes, you say yes. If it is no, tell Kannan. Kannan will say no. So then what happened was, in fact people started saying, oh, CDP is such a great place. Everybody is good except it's head. I was saying all bad things. No, I can't do this, I can't do this. So what I am saying is we need to approach it in a systematic way. There is a lot of difficulty, but basically people are good. They are hesitant, they are scared, but I think we should help them come out of it. If we try, we can achieve. That's why. I think we need some support in India. One month compulsory training, one month for all the teachers, right from the newest ones, 25 years old. Sir, we don't give any support to use mobile. 260 years old, right? No, I am telling you the fact, this is the reality. If you go to the institutes, this is the reality. You have to make it compulsory, one month at least, ICT based training to all the teachers. Only then it will, there would be some motivation. Then all those things are good, hand holding and other things. Then all of a sudden the training will all be fine. Training on ICT? Yes. To the doctors? Yes, yes. I mean they have to be prepared for this kind of education. Because we shall be facing now Gen Y, Gen Z students. So they are far, far ahead of us. So those people, I mean like say, it comes from within, I am using ICT, it is my choice, right? But for majority it is not the choice. So you have to have some compulsory training for one month. After that probably we can make all the efforts. That's already written, there is a formal training. No, he is talking also. ICT, ICT, that's why we are talking about ICT. No, I don't see ICT. ICT too. Yeah, I see you. That's why, what I mean by that, how to use the technology. The tools talking about these people becoming, for example, the simplest one, how to use far point. Yes. How to use it. Yes. Why are you talking about pedagogy? Yes. What I am doing here is, using all the tools technology, incorporating pedagogical approach together. Tools and technology, training for tools and technology is must. When we go, this is a reality. When we go with the different engineering colleges, we have a Gopar itself, we define engineering colleges, right? So if you are going with that, this is very much useful. Two to three months training, using tools and technology, what he is talking about is, every tools and technology, as well as the incorporating some of the pedagogical approach using these tools and technology. This is the total one time. Can I make an observation basis practically? So I want to just take a little bit to see whether we can reach it. So it seems to me that if teachers have to use technology in that, there has to be, I mean he is calling Danda as well, I am just calling it incentives or mechanisms, or to use ICT in classroom by teachers. Is it a starter? So there is, of course, training for teachers on tools and technology that has been talked about, provided of infrastructure is talked about. I actually, if people agree, we can put, I think we need to, so once you become familiar with that, I am not to sure if all places would allow, for example, to say, I will not give the next five lectures, but I am going to use condensed lectures. So I am going to sit in the classroom just like all my students are, and I will do it. I am not to sure if that enabling environment actually exists in most places. Many people are afraid that that will happen and they do not want to bring technology. Actually, it is a very hard thing. I have tried it in my own class, very hard to sit in the classroom. Even a 20-minute lecture, you said, it is not important, forget about it. But I am saying that we should, something we should say, my view is, just to close this point, my view is that I do not think the answer of which technology to use, how to use it in the classroom is settled by any means. I think it is an evolving thing. But the right way to then approach it is to let multiple people, you try something, you try something, you try something, and some things then will emerge, at least if nothing else, knowledge will emerge, but I do not think even that enabling environment exists, because most of us seem to be not using this thing. So I would like to also, besides the feeling in all, somehow have an environment where we all feel, let us try something. Maybe a lecture by him or him, maybe in a flipped classroom, maybe a quiz in between, whatever we want to try, and tell different things, then hopefully some things will emerge. Does that look like something we can capture? Because that will require structures. Quantification will be a challenge unless we are related to actual learning effectiveness in the classroom. So you have asked a very hard question, very relevant question, but I am saying at least, so empower or the policies, I don't know where the policies that I put, to empower faculty to use lectures. I have also done that. I proposed it in the other group, that means what I did. Actually I have two experiences that have actually worked from a policy perspective. There have been some institutes where they said, while we want to include ICT and all, one of the ways they made sure that it became part of the system was recognizing that is equivalent to the existing system. So for example, assessment marks like internal scores that come out of ICT, they say, I will recognize it, and so people use it. And if you were supposed to do 40 hours of lecture in your class, if you took 10 hours of her lecture and 5 hours of it, that will count as your lecture. It's important. I think those enabling things have to happen, otherwise most of us will not do that. So that's what I am saying, policy to empower faculty to use mechanisms, etc. Yes please. So we are actually a very young university, almost three years back we have been established. Actually we have made a policy. It's like what people are talking about. I thought something like institutionalizing this ICT thing, what we have done is every faculty member has to develop his course and has to be loaded in a tablet, which has to be given to the students. In the process what happens is the teacher becomes accountable because you design your course and you have to deliver in the classroom. And you take the tab to the classroom, which has all the notes, all the PPTs, all the questions with the answers, and you can take assessments also using the tabs. So I think that is the process of institutionalizing where somebody was talking about supporting. The institution gives an enabling environment to support faculty to develop courses and to deliver it and be accountable for all the processes that are involved. So what are the options here? So in Canada I noticed that, I mean in North America I noticed that more and more publishers, where there is already a publishing mafia, and there is no mafia and all that. So they also give ICT material along with the book for the university. So when you buy a prescribed calculus textbook, it comes with a set of presentations. But that's only for the teacher to use in the classroom. You cannot share it with the students. And that's the one thing that students want the most. So maybe we have, if we talk about some formal training program, we've talked about it. If we can, if we agree we can put this down, that there has to be some mechanism, instruments, policy to enable and empower the teachers to not, it should be actually more that enthused, excite some sort of thing, that they use technology, different aspects of technology in their classroom. Hopefully better answers will emerge in due course as to what some models are there. We'll record that. I've also put down to what you were saying and what I think somebody else also said that besides in your own classroom, and I think Kannan was also saying if you develop courses outside your classroom, that seems to put a kind of thing on you that helps improve your own course. Because you are now facing a larger audience and so on and so forth. So which of course, again if there is an enabling environment that every college will have to do 10% of school, some other student and of course that college will do 10%. There are some such things, I'm not saying that we need that answer. But if you put this down, is that an acceptable thing? That incentive again, incentive, policy, whatever we want to call it. To support that teachers in one college or to support develop ITG courses for external students. I think if we can do that, if all of us are supposed to put 10% of our lectures for external consumption, there can be a huge impact. And with all the data available as to how many students watch whose lectures in some sense is a marketplace and watching our lectures as to who's going forward. Five lectures are the same topic for your intro to programming and whether my course gets more hits than Vatax or Vatax gets more hits than somebody would have its ramifications. Probably good. So I'll be putting this down, sounds good? Right. We have two three points to at least say something. Other things you want to add? We have left that, but I think there are these things we didn't talk about assessment, projects, lab. Projects, lab part. The biggest problem which we people are facing that is hands-on part. In ICT delivering lecture, it's very good. Recording everything is very good. But as far as hands-on practice part in there, that's slightly difficult with this one. Virtual classroom concept, virtual lab concept and already it has been given. My suggestion is what we people are doing? We have, our institute is four pieces to maintain for research like this one. But we take technical experiments which has to be conducted. We are selecting some of the good institutes and our team is going there. In laboratory one teacher is conducting experiments. So these experiments are there. Really the processor which is being followed during the conducting experiment, everything is getting recorded. Say for one and half hours, even threads are asked in addition. So complete experiment which is being conducted, that we are recording and then we are putting in this web portal. So I think laboratory part now, at least even pole technique, these equipments are not available at all. Even if it is available, teachers are not there. So some of the problems can be sorted out real time if recording can be done on the experiment and then can be put on the website. I think this experience was around 150 videos we have recorded for different levels, just like a soil engineering level or say electrical machines level. So where really teacher is conducting experiments, friends are there. They are asking many questions about the even calculation part, everything is being done. So that can solve this laboratory part also. So you are saying that you have an example, specific example, but you are saying that there is scope for improvement on projects and labs through the use of technology. Actually it can be good when experiments are being conducted and second one what we are doing, we are inviting good strengths in the studio also. Say just like robotics, if I am saying. For robotics, strengths are doing that whole exercise of making robot and teacher strengths are sitting at far away places and that is getting transmitted also. So strengths are taking participation in this hands-on part also. At one particular point of time, all specifications, all components of these robots, everything is being purchased, specifications are being told to the strengths and they are assembling, they are doing this real-time assembly they are doing and strengths are connected to them, even many of the questions they are asking. So this part also can be projects part, projects lab part can be conducted. Even strengths are delivering for strengths. So I think many of these actually, there are different answers to it, but certainly lectures in the most commonly used aspect way, but certainly assignments and we have also talked about there is a lot of things now on assignments. So grading was talked about, so technology is emerging for even doing some online grading of even higher levels of skills. Projects you are saying that there is something this would have been a very, my mind is a hard thing to do online, but you are saying that something like that. These are smaller matters of course management, but I think taking attendance is certainly something where technology. But I don't think we need to enumerate the answers if we say that in all aspects, if we push somehow that please start using technology for this, for this, for this, for any aspect, hopefully better answers can be brought in. If you feel that we can leave it there, then I think we can look at these other questions that we haven't yet talked about. So here we have two, three things, formal training, incentives to use ICT, incentive support to develop this so external, so you go external, so we are recommending that this could be something considered. These are all for improving our own teaching. And this is for improving the teachers. How about these kinds of things? Do anyone want to say something that we want to capture? Just one thing that we don't... We didn't talk this, we didn't talk about this. Allowances, first of all discipline, snippets of video inputs can be used in the same task, but for different parts of introducing or strengthening or reinforcing different concepts. Absolutely. So actually you can put it either here, you can put it either here. Actually it allows the fact that you have stuff available on math, on social networks, on sociology, on graph. You can do an excellent course in social network analysis. Now that allows you to design a course, you as an instructor who knows perhaps math but doesn't know sociology or no sociology but doesn't know graph theory, allows you, enables you to design some interesting course. I mean we didn't reach there, but I thought these are the things that it is allowing which actually... Because we are in our country still very focused on just me doing my course better. I mean because that is indeed the pressing need. There is no doubt 80% of the need is there. But I think another 10-20% these are really exciting possibilities. Okay, again here a word of warning. We should flag this and that is copyright issues. So in foreign universities for instance, it's just a nightmare now you know because you don't know what is copyrighted, what is not and each term there's a whole message which runs to four or five pages and then with very penalized warnings. So we should have this inbuilt openness completely in order not to drive people away. For example we had a course in technical education using some course from Stanford for the English aspect I don't know enough English writing to teach somebody so I'm using ten of her lectures into this. But I don't know what it is there. I don't know what we need to say. It is empowering and enabling this thing that you can use the fact that there's so much diverse content available with the caveat that we can only talk about the content that is openly and freely available. It actually opens the possibility of huge interesting design processes. The policy thing or the enabling thing that we can talk about actually 80 to 90% of our colleges do not have the framework or the ability to design processes. I mean it has to happen through parent university and then maybe a teacher can do it. So if you're excited about it and you happen to be a teacher in a college you can do it but you still will not be able to. So I would like to actually agree this has been my pet theme for a long time that we need to empower teachers just to do some interesting stuff not always be subservient to a parent university some academic old foggy sitting and saying this is what we're talking about. This has been my theme for a different reason but I think it needs a lot of sense to have some ability to design new courses leveraging perhaps the content that is available to make it more exciting, more relevant, more interdisciplinary, etc. I have one thing to mention most of the engineering colleges or maybe polytechnics I visited I saw that even faculty members are not aware of the good projects how to allow good projects to the students even. Now when we are talking about the new courses to be developed at least the faculty members should have that much knowledge how to give a good project to the students and most of the time the projects are being purchased from photocopy shops. So that is the bigger challenge before us. I think most I have visited all the states mostly all the states in India this is the state I think teachers are doing projects research projects and consultancy projects I think that part can be taken care of. So also I think the point is totally right except this is a chicken and egg problem my feeling is and if we agree that we empower people just 70-80% can't do anything but you don't have to always do something for the entire 10% 10% who are capable of creating something new should be not a problem yes 80% will not be able to do I have no doubt in that but I am saying that a lot of people are who are probably good I have seen in some of these colleges what have you featured not all teachers are bad by any stretch of graduation but they don't have to when it comes to doing it. No I mean to say is it we can create some kind of portal where the experts can suggest some of the good topics for the projects related to engineering that may help teachers I would like to put this that I think we need to in all this affiliating university framework that has been one of the focus of this workshop we need to build capabilities so framework which will allow faculty members to design new courses and leverage the fact that there is so much content to put together an interesting exciting course through a set of things after all even Anup's lecture used Khan's academy stuff with all the Microsoft behind him still he ended up using something in Khan when I was talking about Danda then this design of new courses this Danda can come from NBI accreditation also there is one parameter called teaching there is a parameter called teaching learning processes there we can say when they write their program objective program outcomes there we can say that in the course content they have to have ICT enabled or in their accreditation framework they could have at least 8% of the courses designed so this I think this I think should be a recommendation for that if you can notice it otherwise you can take a photograph of it and do something for design and I think he was talking about projects that there is a room for helping faculty members with the project work for their project Phatak had a very big this thing earlier where he was putting all these projects to something like that what Professor Rao Rao was saying program objectives and program educational objectives most of the I had been with NBI and many committees I visited in fact our faculty members don't know what are the program objectives and program educational objectives they don't have any mapping that much so you can imagine so we can put this not only level we made a system like that exactly so therefore if you make it that level or not yeah therefore in teaching learning process, there itself we can say there is a lot of room if you talk in the working world that will take you away from it so let's do that I still think if we can say something about so we have something here we have something to say here let me put a scar so remember this remember this how about this community of teacher that was an excellent point somebody raised that teachers can help each other projects for example could be one but I think there is I don't know how to enable it but clearly community building is one thing that the modern technology is doing extremely well and we are actually laggards at it in the same people like us hardly are active in the I have also a comment on Danda I talked about incentive but I believe there is because on the one hand one of the problems we have in massive teacher training for example is how many people are really benefitting by that how many people are free-loads they just come over they think it is a vacation it's actually a problem in all these teacher training programs so we need to address this so one of the things that I have been thinking about is is it possible to make some why do they want to attend because if they attend they will get a certificate it's going to have no promotion so can we say that unless you demonstrate some minimal skills which I will make available through whatever material I have it could be Khan Academy it could be spoken tutorial it could be some learning material I am going to conduct a test unless you score 20% in that you cannot come to this teacher training program so if you do that it's a Danda but then what happens is it will filter out all the deadwood all the troublemakers then what you can do is then put only those people through the teacher training program who have certain skills keep it very low like 10%, 20% you can demonstrate capability then you can even conduct the class then you can conduct the class in a high level flip classroom mode you can say problem solving now the same problem will be addressed from 100 angles because there are 1000 people prerequisite to enrolling in the class so what will happen is if the class size gets bigger the performance may actually get better the experience may actually get better which is very good for our teacher training so I propose this so this is over here you are saying there ought to be some prerequisite strict prerequisite I would say I would say my prerequisite demonstrated capability that's what you are saying demonstrated using easily enforced available learning material capability and this itself you can use ICT for it yes and then conduct it there you can use again to attend the workshop to attend the workshop non-serious people should not be allowed to come to this because the way the workshop should be targeted at those who really want to do something to improve their education I think that point is well taken because as far as you are requesting to people who may not be interested I think that's an excellent point somehow if we can do it for students also that would be great is there a reward I mean should we think of a reward like recognizing people who have made the transition to this new mode academic tourism as a follow-up of that could be this community community of teachers helping community of teachers something like that so as a follow-up of that as before you continue I propose the same thing in the another panel I got shot down so we make it compulsory whoever attends that workshop we make it compulsory that as soon as you come back you have to train another ten teachers over there I think community is sort of developing you derive energy benefit out of it why is my daughter on this and I'm not because she's deriving something out of it which I am not valuing she values it so I think somehow we have to make the community things always work the community supports I don't think you can force maybe initial little lollipop to register but after that it has to support itself I have just one point with Prasimha Tugla should we do this prerequisite right now when we are actually starting this thing with ICT or should we wait for some few years see in fact that's there but should it be right now should it be right now the way I believe is if it is done it is going to maybe half the people will fail let's say devil's advocate half the people will fail no hold on people won't be able to attend this type of workshop that's the main point I think the answer is there isn't a perfect timing but if you start with half people fail hopefully they will come back they will come back and hopefully they will take it more seriously you have thousands of people thousands less in the first they won't be getting the certificate they won't be getting the certificate they won't attend the workshop but not subject I think if you are friends saying you are going to enroll in this program but you won't get the certificate that's very difficult if he was awake somehow he will make sure he sleeps he's going to at least get a good sleep and he will never sleep no they think it's a paid holiday okay he wants to say we are almost 7, 6, 30 we need to end I think ways to curate content ways to amplify content ways to go through peer assessment how about something like this this is just we have Facebook etc we have LinkedIn where how about teachers what ever it is is it supposed to be a teacher's portal and there's also professors does it help does it help also my name if I am dealing with this course I don't know what to do before it has to be sustained so kind of before no no social network we are helping each other not a portal which is giving me information even Twitter is used for these things so is there a place where only teachers somehow somehow we check out that he can enroll he can enroll but my friend is not a teacher he can't enroll is there something he can enroll only teachers only teachers I don't know the details the enforcing part is okay you've worked on your pain and raised a lot of things so is there some teachers that are writing some energy I think there are enough teachers deriving energy but part of it is community so if you have Anna University it's got 600 people who are teaching the same course that community will derive much more benefit sub-community so there is a JNTU community there is an Anna University today you generate a special interest group on enabling and empowering people and all of us join as part of one group it has to be sustained and in some I think we can start up is this a worthwhile idea if there isn't too much in that I think I mean I think community is too there were so many things like the action process it was low for a few years and now it's rewarding I think these things of course evolve but it often times needs some seed but not the government government it's not like it works correct that's right so part of it and then we also step out there is so much social media and I can tell you about that because all social media is now my understanding is totally uncontrolled so I cannot be in an Anna University social network where I know that everybody else is an Anna University teacher I don't think as of now to my limited knowledge but it's not really part of my knowledge but both Facebook and they have close groups with administrators who can give access who can give access to our education so those communities exist let me any sort of feedback are the educators deriving benefit in education from it FAQs how do I do this some such things happening or they're doing exactly that they are talking about their problems they're sharing examples they're sharing enthusiasm for each other what it's like to say there are a number there are sub-communities within closed groups and there are closed groups specifically those group communities right and there are closed groups for the use of technology in education as well it's different there's too many people I have one observation which worked very well but of course this was for a very high level of course the university has all the infrastructure for creating wiki pages so in your teaching of course you ask everybody in the course and maybe other interested people also to have a login and become a member of that debate they keep adding material so for instance if I do something in the class and I say at the end of it okay I haven't had time to go through everything in detail I'm going to leave it to all of you to share what you have learned that worked tremendously and it was not too much work for me also because you know I could just write notes upload it on the wiki page and let people chat share ideas then somebody else will say okay she did this wrong in class today the correct formula is this this formula was written wrongly in the class I could post my assignments online and sometimes when I couldn't complete it I could just use my video recording or a voice recording whatever I did and just post it there and said okay it's your responsibility next class I'm going to assume that all of you heard this and before you came to class I'm going to start by assuming that you all heard this so you know for universities to create but it should be plug and play it should be very easy so there's two aspects one is that somehow you're creating it for your own code which actually many of my colleagues use but it's also clear because external people see it I'm putting both there that you use technology for your course and somehow we should make it happen more and more absolutely easy way for this to happen is for the university to have a template which becomes very easy to use so that I don't have to spend any time so that's enabling training and I would also add a simple simple tools or support let me just call it not just training but you want simple stuff so you can plug and play you do it so I don't you don't have to call a tech guy, he looks at my wiki page and so on and what was fantastic was one of the students to keep up on themselves at the end of the course to consolidate everything we gave a kind of note and they just sent it to me saying I want your commission to put it on this is what most of us say I said course rights but I'm not aware to watch for the correctness but of course they are so saddened with all this they say this course was even by Labnavna and the notes were taken by Labnavna and whatever mistakes are there we are not responsible no no that's what was put I see that is it beyond training you want simple this thing to be able to do because this really simplified my life but after 2 years university went through this formal re-enhancing of everything and then I stopped using I said so I think we need to close 630 anybody wants to add something sir I have one now we have consolidated overall but what are our recommendations point wise we have not discussed that way probably you can number them and then identify for question number 1 these are the few points for question number 2 if you can group them so I will give some recommendations so this is sort of framework but the recommendations that we have agreed on is formal training for this thing incentives to do this incentives for teachers to expose their incentives mechanism for teachers to expose their material outside incentives and tools support etc. so we can do them we talked about that some enabling environment so people can design courses is an excellent thing we talked about use of ICT or collaborative teaching which I think we can get subsumed under this but collaborative I had another star somewhere yeah well projects if you agree we will still put you in same community it just seems to be there aren't systems available but I don't think we are busy in India atleast that's why I agree but if we are not another thing is like we are together here physically we could have more webinars and all so that we could collaborate and be part more participating in such achievements an online portal where we are sharing input of course we will create a community but more participation is required so that people have some online workshops or so the stars once we tried to capture it tonight and maybe made it to you perhaps so we need some ideas how to students it doesn't work so can you just share what you think in fact many students applied in my class we all registered we mapped but that was okay no no obviously if you say look we have difficulty implementing blackboard there is a convention center which is in between Ramada and Nuskanabad so either way we will go down but it's not ready