 Thursday morning with Tim Epicella, Winston Welch, Stephanie Dalton and we're talking about Coronaville because that train keeps going down the track. So one of the questions we talked about before the show began here on Coronaville, what's next, is what happens if you wake up one morning and you have the classic symptoms, you know? Can somebody address that? Tell me what those symptoms might be. And the ultimate question is would you be surprised? Tim? Well, the symptoms have increased over time. I think some of the most recent systems is your loss of smell, your loss of taste. But certainly the classic symptoms are you have a headache, you have body aches, you have a sore throat, you have difficulty in breathing. Those are the classic ones. And the answer is since the state is sponsoring free tests, if you exhibit those symptoms, oh yeah, don't forget high fever or high temperature, you can get in your car and go sit on H3 and get your test. And it's a relatively quick one, I understand. Yeah, but the question was, would you be surprised? No. No, because I see everyone coming up to me without a mask and be it a political statement or not, they're getting in my six foot radius. And remember, this COVID-19 is no longer classified as a droplet. It's classified as an aerosol. So six feet may not even be sufficient enough space between two parties. Well, food that comes into your house, the clothing, you may bring it into the house yourself. Delivery from any number of delivery organizations, I mean anything, you can be as careful as you want. And maybe, you know, you can't escape it. And before we started the show, Stephanie, you had a very incremental approach to this. What was that? Well, I happened to have a conversation with an interest MD who was with the community downtown. And they were very, very concerned because while the ships were still unloading downtown Honolulu, that there's a CVS there that gets hit by travelers from Aloha Tower. And they were using the bathrooms that whatever building still had them open, evidently some of them still keep their bath there, maybe not now, but the bathrooms are open. So they were, that the medical people were really concerned because they knew that the excrement is the perfect carrier even better than saliva, technically, Lexicon eyes, but for carrying the virus. And then that led to a discussion of how when Honolulu closed down its beaches by shutting the bathrooms and the bathroom by closing the beaches and then people would still use the bathrooms and they wanted to shut the bathroom so they cut off the water. And that was when they went to the tenant governor who you know is an MD to make the point that this was not a good idea because without those bathrooms, and they're all scarce, you know, and all cities have too few bathrooms, but they were going then to the beach. And then that was contaminating the beach because people even just walking through, you can pick it up if you've got excrement, as people would do, they would go to the beach and they would make little holes and do what the Hawaiians and Winston, I saw you shake your head. No, you wouldn't be surprised, but I want to break it down. You know, there's really two things that we look to the government for. One is to protect us from being infected in the first place and call it community health and safety. And I suppose that includes testing. And the other thing is, you know, the health system itself should we wake up one morning and have these symptoms and go down and get tested and hopefully we can. You know, how big is the safety net? Is it working? Is the government doing the right thing? Are the hospitals and medical community doing other properly staffed and all that? So we know already, and if you want to disagree, go ahead. We know already that the government is not doing a good job at public health. That's very clear. In fact, a woman who was brought in to replace Sarah Park and dealing with the tracing, you know, she left yesterday. She said she couldn't handle the failures in the chain of command, which means bad environment didn't want to work there. There must be some stories to tell. So we know that the government's not doing a good job in terms of, you know, flattening the curve and doing what government should be doing. But where is the hospital system and the doctors? Where do they stand? Where is the strength? Where is the weakness in this continuum? Well, I think that our hospitals are okay. From what we read, you know, there is a nursing shortage or near a nursing shortage because of the intensity of care that the patients provide that need to be provided to them. So they have asked that recent graduates are allowed to be working without being licensed right now, which makes sense. We're in a pandemic situation, but there are sufficient beds. I think there's sufficient personal protective equipment here in Hawaii for right now. There have been failures obviously inside of our system as far as testing, tracing, getting the public to cooperate. Just the basic health messages out there that you don't, you should not be congregating on the beach. This is what led to our surge along with some other critical factors. I think of not, of allowing people in here when we had zero cases and now are the worst in the nation and we're shutting down our freeways. Would you agree with me Winston that if the first chapter of this continues to fail, then the second chapter will perforce fail also? In other words, if we have more cases and what did I see yesterday, 335 cases in the state of Hawaii, that is really, really troubling. Keeps going up. And I mean, whatever we're doing, it's the wrong thing. We're doing the wrong thing every day. So if as this goes up, there are more live cases out there, then the pressure in the hospitals is that much greater. Don't you agree that one begets the other? But we are, we've course corrected, the problem is it's a slow shift to turn. And so while we may be in lockdown today, we won't see the fruits of this for a while. But I think we've already begun to see that the incident of positive cases has dropped significantly in the last week or so. So it will take a while for this to take effect. And then once with these measures of the lockdown, then we get someone in there who knows, maybe the call in the National Guard to do the contact tracing element of this. We've got the testing in here. We've got the Surgeon General to come in. I mean, this is a big deal. They're giving out a lot of tests. They're putting people in hospitals. But I think it's important to realize that a lot of people wake up with the symptoms every day. Fever or chills, cough, shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, fatigue, muscle or body aches, headache, loss of taste or smell, sore throat, congestion or runny nose, nausea or vomiting diarrhea. That's half the population on any good day is going to have some of those symptoms. So I think you have to realize what is novel about that. For most people, I think a loss of taste or smell. And of course, I think it's important to realize and to remind our viewers that the majority of these cases, you isolate yourself as best as you can. If you can't, you ask the city for some help to go to a hotel. But you call 911 if you have trouble breathing, pain or pressure in your chest, some confusion, inability to take a break. What do you do with your loved ones living with someone, right? What do you do with your loved ones? I have loved ones around me and I wake up with these symptoms and I'm pretty sure I got them all. And I turn around to my wife and I say, I woke up with all these symptoms. I think I got it now. What do you say to her? Should she go to the far end of the house? Does she leave? I leave? Nobody leaves. We have a statement of love. What do we do? You know, what you do, I hate to say it, but once you exhibit all those symptoms and you're living with some, there's a great chance that that individual has it too. So the first thing you do is, well, of course, separate as best you can within the household. And if you can get out to a segregated dwelling, then that's great. But most people don't have that resource. The first thing you do is test. So you eliminate the possibility that you are or are not affected. Yeah. Okay. But I think you're right. I mean, the likelihood is if you wake up one morning, she's going to wake up one morning, either that day or the day after she lived in the same way. I just want to add one thing is I think, I just don't think we're putting a message out to those who play lazy eye fair either because of a political reason or because their age. And I think there needs to be a better media campaign to address those that are walking around possibly waiting for a test and they're walking around in social situations and potentially spreading it that way. Or they just fail to wear a mask because they feel that it's a hoax. And you know, Jay, you and I know that how many people not only in this town, but around the country thinks it's a hoax. Well, that takes us to the next part of our discussion today, Trump. I don't think a lot of those people who say it's a hoax or feel it's a hoax or make ridiculous comments on the internet would be saying those things if Trump wasn't encouraging them. He's giving them license to do that. If I were president and I'm not running, I want to be clear. If I were president, I would come down with hobnail boots on that sort of thing. And I would say no, no, we have a rule here. This is an emergency, not like the wall, a real emergency. People are dying as you watch, you know, 1,000, 1,500 every day people dying. So we're going to take draconian steps. We had a show yesterday about China and some of the things they did. And they flattened the curve. They're doing very well. They have, you know, single digit cases in some places. It's really success. Of course, you've got to believe them, and some people don't believe them. Some people don't want to believe them. Bottom line, though, is that we need, this is my opinion, we need stronger government, government that will make a rule and force the rule on the whole population. And the rule has to be thoughtful and smart. And that takes me to the second part of our show about some of the things that are happening from the White House on coronavirus. I'm just a couple here. He doesn't want to collaborate with the global effort for a vaccine. And he makes a public statement of that. Winston, what does that tell us about him? What does it tell us about our own prospects that he refuses to cooperate with other efforts at building a vaccine? Well, it's irrelevant because these corporations are multinational, so they don't care what he says. They're going to go through and do it anyway. And if some, if Abbott Pharmaceuticals gets to cure through its AstraZeneca, Merringer's, you know, subsidy and subsidiary in Japan or China or wherever it is, they're going to bring it over here anyway. I did want to just throw it out there. We don't have to invent rules here to take care of ourselves and others. The CDC, while it has been politicized, still has very good information on what to do to protect yourself. So many of your home is sick. So just that theoretical question you asked about, what should your wife do? She should go to the CDC.gov and find out what she should do, which is, you know, living contact, eating separate areas, you know, use a line trash can, open your window, you know, always wear a mask. There's things that we can do. Are you going to agree with Winston on that or are you going to? Well, no, thanks. I want to shout out to the hotel, however, it's managing this. And probably it's got a big contract, which the state or the city's paying for, which I would like, that's a whole nother topic. But there's a hotel that is taking on the coronavirus quarantining. And that is the only way to go. This thing of staying at home and even having an extra bedroom and an extra bathroom, and then you're taking them food, there's no way to avoid the virus. You know, Cuomo, the Cuomo youngster on CNN, he got it and his wife got it. Everybody got it. I'm sure they have a huge house. They probably have staff, wonderful staff to take stuff around, but they still all got it. So that was what I wanted to mention as you brought up at the beginning of this is that the Asians, especially Korea and China, they, as soon as you showed a symptom, you were gone. You sat your Oak Holy down until the test came back. And then you, if you were gone with it, if you got a positive diagnosis, you were off to the quarantine place wherever that was. She didn't go home. You didn't go anywhere. You went straight there and got better. Okay, back to the question though. Tim, what about the CDC? How do you feel about it these days? Oh, I think it's tragic that this sterling credibility has been hampered greatly and all thanks to the Trump administration and particularly probably from Donald Trump. I mean, Donald Trump has done everything, has said everything in order to himself, himself to look good for the election. And let's kind of go down the list. First off, he said it was a hoax. Okay, that was back in February. Then he said, okay, it's a flu. It'll go, it'll magically disappear. Then he goes, hey, anyone who wants a test can get a test. Go to Walmart. Go to Target and you'll just, they'll be there for you while they weren't. Then of course he clung to hydroxychloroquine as it's, you know, a serious treatment and cure potentially for COVID-19. Well, that was a hoax. And then of course his miracle cure recently was 35% of all people that have COVID-19 will survive thanks to convalescent plasma therapy. And now we got, you know, PPEs that are still in short supply. And we've had months and months and months to get on top of that curve. And now recently, you have magically a vaccine that could be ready for distribution by November the 1st. What a miracle. So he's hampered both the FDA, in my opinion, and the CDC. And when it comes time for a real vaccine to be taken, I'm certainly not going to be first in line. I'd like to see Donald Trump, his family, the Republican GOP senators, and in the House. Let them be in line first for it. Let's see their confidence level. Yeah. Oh yeah. Well, okay, so, you know, where are we? Let's see. You mentioned a few things. What about herd immunity? Every time we look we have another czar, another, you know, epidemiologist speaking for the Trump administration. I cannot figure out why they have to change every week, sometimes more often than that. Stephanie, do you believe these guys, when they pop up out of nowhere, like this guy Scott Atlas, and all of a sudden start talking about a concept that nobody agrees with, like herd immunity? What do you think about that? Well, yeah, I'm appalled because Dr. Atlas is promoting that and has been. And of the figures, if you do the math on it to get to 67% of the population protected by herd immunity, if that would work with this particular virus guy, then you've got to have about 2 million down and out deaths in order to get 67% of the population protected. So I mean, this is like not a, you know, a panacea for the pandemic and that's what it's being held out as, a panacea. And also we have Sweden. Sweden did this way. They just kept on going and did whatever and they've got the highest death rate in cases in all of Europe. So where's this Dr. Atlas, he has no epidemiological background. He's a MRI guy. He's a Trump guy is what he is. Yeah, but he is an MD, but he's not in the area of the viruses of the virology or the relevant specialties at all. What happened to Fauci? Fauci's coming back. This my next t-shirt. Where is Dr. Fauci? Where is Don Gault? He got his nose fixed. His voice had gone. So they had to take notes off his vocal cords. He's back out of the hospital now and he has been speaking. I heard him one time on TV. He doesn't like it at all that we're at 10,000 at 60,000 a day. He wants it at 10,000 and he would like those cases less than that for the U.S. He says it's not going to be down below 10,000. Happy to hear that. You know, one of the really special things Winston that has happened in the last few days is that Trump has made another order. Where does he pull these things from? I think a dark place. He wakes up. He has his three o'clock in the morning hamburger and he makes up his mind about some new special thing, none of which is supported by either evidence or by the law. And the latest one is the renters thing. Coming again out of your CDC, who I believe in less every day. Now the CDC says, well, if you have to move out of your apartment, that exposes you to the virus. So as a matter of medicine, we are commanding the country that there's no more termination of rental agreements. What? What has that come from? What are your thoughts about this new edict? I mean, it just, it has a matter of public health. It's a great idea. If you are the owner of the apartment and you can't make your mortgage payment, it's a terrible idea. So while the idea might be good and maybe it came in, I think it's fully efficient. It's not hamburgers. A rapper that says, you know, here's like a fortune cookie. Maybe that's the way to get messages in there. Say, let's do a eviction moratorium. And but the other side of that is you got to give some money for the people that own these places, because they just can't be stuck with the bill. They've got bills too. This is a lot of the times they're primary source of income. I have this repeating thought that a baseball, you know, is thrown through the window of an apartment. Okay. And so who's going to pay for that when the tenant's not paying the rent? Who's going to pay for fixing the window? Who's going to keep the lights on? Who's going to keep paying the water bill when the guy's not getting any rent? And a small landlord is really going to be under pressure. So I did, I did want to just respond to a couple of things that my, my very smart colleagues have brought up, which is that the, the CDC and the FDA have been tainted. And this is tragic because the, you know, think of where the FDA started from up in Sinclair, right? And pure food and drugs. There's a reason why we have the FDA. There's a reason why the CDC has, has been held in such high esteem. They will regain their standing after this is over with, they will do a necessary purge so that it can never happen again. In the meantime, we got to deal with it as best as we can. And the CDC does have good information right now. Stephanie's point is to, as to how the Asians were doing it, which was commandeering the convention center and putting in sick people there immediately. And that's how they did it. It's not happening here. So we have to deal with this virus on a very personal level, as best as we can with the, with the resources that we have at hand. We're not doing the, the countdown. We're not doing it. We're not doing it. So we have to do close to that. But you know, I mean, I wish we could broadcast this show to the whole 330 million people in the country. So they get the idea. By the way, there was some stuff in the New York Times today that suggests that Trump Trump himself is losing credibility. And they had a little, a little thing about hydroxychloroquine, about how the sales of hydroxychloroquine went through the roof in, I think, April and May, when he was touting it. And now they've dropped off precipitously. Nobody is buying that anymore. And there were some articles also that suggested that Trump is losing credibility because he's so unpredictable. And this stuff is also obviously political, as you said, Tim. But one of the, one of the things that interested me most this week is the anarchist cities, which just happened to be all democratic cities run by those Democrat people. And he's going to cut off federal funding to them. Well, they need the federal funding to cope with the coronavirus, don't they? That's the reason that makes it so important. You know, just like the question of whether the CDC could, could break up all the lease agreements in the country. You know, there is a contracts clause in the Constitution. What about that one? Is the, it's refusing federal funding that's already agreed and appropriated to certain cities, Democrat cities. Is that legal, do you think? And why and what effect? No, I, is this for me, Jay? Yeah. Okay. No, I don't think it's legal. I think it's, it's Blunder. It's both or dash, whatever, B, where do you want to call it? Bottom line is he says a lot of things. And we know that for a fact that half the things he says are just dismissed because it's, you know, it's ridiculous. And the other half is going to have to be challenged in court. So withholding funds for this is, you remember, he did the same threat about schools. Well, if you don't force little Johnny to school, I'm pulling the money away from these schools. You know, that to my knowledge, didn't happen. What about the school, Stephanie? You like education? There's a lot of places in the country where, where Trump's suggestions or commandments or however he does this have taken root and that people are sending their kids back to school. They're making these personal decisions, rational or not, to send their kids back to school and their kids are going back to school and getting sick. What do you think about that? What's your take on it? My take is that it's that same problem in the schools, in the cities, and elsewhere. And the point has been made also by an expert, Linda Darling-Hannon from Stanford University, an education professor there, and nationally acclaimed for her work. The point is that they need more money. Okay, because not take money away, because what schools need specifically, and I know we all can figure out what cities need, we need more money to open the bathrooms at the parks and to make sure the water's running and still clean. But the schools and cities, they need to make sure there's ventilation systems that really do the job. That's one of the major reasons teachers aren't going back. Don't forget the bathrooms. Well, the bathrooms, but ventilation and also they need space, because they cannot be in classrooms with 35 kids. Okay, this costs money and that's what's not flowing. So the common need is more money from the federal government printed out whatever you have to do, but that's what other places are doing, like Denmark. You got to have more money to have more spaces to take more teachers at little groups of kids, and then you're fine if you get that on control. Winston, let me turn this to you on the political side. So Trump is in many ways responding to Biden's attacks. Trump is trying to show that he's a really wonderful leader, that he knows how to lie about a vaccine, and he knows how to confuse everybody and get his base all riled up and tell everybody it's just fine. It's just fine. It's going away. It's an alternate universe, and my question to you is, so how do people take this? It's a hard question, I know. How does the country take this? Is this helping him in terms of the election coming soon, or is it really pulling the rug out from under him? Well, his base isn't moving anywhere, and that article that we mentioned yesterday about box, why his numbers are solid, they have been unchanged for his entire presidency. So nothing that he says or does is going to make a difference. And I think that's a key message that I've been talking about for a while, is that we need not look to the federal government for any real response. What he can do is open the tabs. I've all agreed with Stephanie on that. Just print the money and give it out to people in all kinds of forms. It doesn't matter our national debt is already big, but it is up to us as individuals, as cities, as states to deal with this virus as best as we can. If we get something from the federal government, whatever that might be, great, but don't count on it and you won't be disappointed. One of the things that troubles me is the federal government is still collecting taxes. Trump has excused certain taxpayers for certain tax, and the Kaka Mimi Tax Reform Act of 2017 has excused richer taxpayers, but he's still collecting tax money. And he's not spending it on the country, or at least not now. And we still have, Congress is not doing anything. There's been no second chapter in the CARES Act. He's not obviously not doing what he has to do to fund these efforts by the state. Tim, don't you think that people are going to get the idea after a while that he's abandoned this project, that he'll do anything to distract him, change the public attention? Are they going to get wise to that? And if they don't get wise to that, does that help him on November 3rd? Boy, that's a tough question. I think, yes, they've gotten wise to it, but again, from the 44% or less, they don't care. Now, for that precious 11% of the hearts and souls we're trying to reach, I think the art getting to the point that many things that Donald Trump has said about COVID is all wrong. It's all lies. And I think that if they're of a particular age category as well, they're going, he really doesn't care about me. He's not interested in my welfare, the welfare of my family. And I think that's why you see the polls shifting away from Donald Trump as really since May. And I think that as much as Donald Trump wants to keep COVID out of the news cycle, it won't leave. Well, he's going to be criticized for sure. Biden was probably listening to us guys and decided he was going to pound on Trump every day over COVID, which is, I guess he watches Think Tech, son of a gun. I will vote for him. But the question is, won't Trump adjust his conduct? Won't he come up with more stuff in the next, what, less than 60 days now? Won't he be doing something else? Stephanie, what do you predict that he's going to do? He's not going to just let it happen. He's going to create another mouse that roared, tail wag the dog kind of thing, where he's got another emergency, or he's got some kind of new remarkable thing that takes our attention away, or that makes us believe that he thinks that we should think he's doing a wonderful job in solving the problem. What are you going to do? Do you have any ideas? I do. I think that this, we just had one. We just had, the latest one is the vaccine that's come in November one. Okay. So that has nothing to do with reality. I mean, and it's utterly incoherent anyway, but he's making, he's saying that he's accomplished it already. So what he's trying to do is troll for all of those votes that are the relief and the gratitude of the nation to Trump for obtaining the vaccine and getting ready to distribute it. He's making all those plans right now as if he had it. So I think there will be some people that will give it up for that. He's going to, he's the salesman, right? He's the con man. He's going to work that one all the way. Well, you know, the newspapers were telling us and the cable television was telling us that Trump's obvious maneuver now was to rile people up and blame, you know, municipal violence on Biden. Now, recently, last couple of days, they've back cracked on that. They've said, you know, it didn't work. It didn't work in Kenosha and people are getting wise to that. They're, they do not blame Biden. And they're coming around to the view that, you know, Trump is, is the one who creates the problem. I like telling people to vote twice. Like, you know, all this, all this fantastic stuff he comes up with. I think that people are getting wise or at least a newspaper stink. People are getting wise. So my question to you is, is he done with that card Winston? Is he going to continue to try to convince us that it's Biden creating the violence and it's not him? Will the violence continue? And how does it play? Because, you know, it's involved in COVID. The same people who do the violence are the ones who are getting sick and who are spreading the disease all over the country. Where is that going to go in the next 60 days? Well, he is running against Joe Biden. So anything that he can say to associate any word of negativity and attach it to Joe Biden, he's a radical, let me see a radical leftist market as a socialist. God knows what, you know, I mean, it's so, it's so insane. But it's, it's, you know, it's part of the big lie scheme. You throw out a lot of little different lies and see which one picks up speed and keep repeating it until you're, you're the zombies agree with, oh, you know, so much, so much. That's what it's like. And basically, if he's able to sway that 11%, you know, that's a really sad indictment of our educational moral, you know, underpinnings in this nation. But hopefully people will wake up and smell the coffee and get with the program, look at themselves first for their own health and safety and go out from there and say, what is my government doing and who's in charge of it? Okay, well, we're almost out of time here and I want to remind you that the, what was the name of this show? We had a name for it and it was something about how the CDC is losing. Fear and confusion reign over six years. Right, fear and confusion reign. So I'm going to do something we never did before. I'm going to ask each of you to come up with a word or phrase that best expresses your view of where we are or what's happened this week. Winston, why don't you start? What's your word or phrase, word or phrase that best expresses where we are on coronavirus and all these implications this week? Chaos and confusion. Title wasn't so far off. How about you, Stephanie? What's your word or phrase? Um, I'm in cautiously optimistic about the vote, cautiously optimistic. All right, okay, okay, okay. All right, Tim, how about you? You're the last word here. I'm going to plagiarize fear and loathing. All right, that's Tim Epicella. You figure out what he really meant. Stephanie Dalton, Winston Welch. Thank you so much, you guys. Coronaville, what's next? And it's next week, next Thursday. Thanks so much. Aloha.