 Welcome, you guys. Welcome to Pure Dog Talks Lightning Round with Laura. All right, I have to tell you, I'm pretty jacked up about this, you guys. I've been wanting to do this forking ever and I was assured by some random company that shall not be named that it was gonna happen. It never did. So I'm making it happen for us. And that's really important. So a couple quick things for those of you who are not familiar with Pure Dog Talk, shocking. Pure Dog Talk, the voice of Pure Bread Dogs. I am your host, Laura Reeves, and I am super excited that you're here to join us for this inaugural live event. So this is very cool. I'm like, I'm all, I'm all a flutter. So cool. At Pure Dog Talk, we talk to the legends of the sport. We bring you everything from obedience to fieldwork, to agility, to confirmation, and absolutely everything in between with well over 500 episodes and over a million downloads and nearly 175,000 unique listeners. Pure Dog Talk in the last five years has become a staple of the Pure Bread Dog community. And I am absolutely thrilled. So thank you. Thank you all for joining us. Always remember, if you have any questions, you can go to puredogtalk.com, type in a keyword search, and I can almost guarantee you there's a podcast for that. For real. It's important for you to understand, you guys, that your passion is our passion. Your passion is our purpose. Pure Bread Dogs are what I live and breathe and have for the last 40 some odd years. Couple things, a little bit of business. Always remember that TruePanion and Embark are the major sponsors of Pure Dog Talk. And in every way you can and in every opportunity you have, please support them because they are the reason this is in existence. I couldn't do it. I literally couldn't do it. I'd also remind you about our patrons group. You can join. There's a link on the www.puredogtalk.com website that will let you spend $5 a month or whatever it is that you have to spend to support the show. And that gets you in our private, totally private, only get in if you pay for it. Facebook group that is an amazing community of people that has really developed into just one of the most incredible support networks I've encountered in my 40 some odd years in dogs. Alright, so a little bit about me. Again, I assume everybody here knows about Pure Dog Talk and all the rest of it. But if not Pure Dog Talk, we told you. Me, I am in dogs since childhood. My father said, get rid of those bleeping horses and I'll buy you any purebred dog you want when I was 12. And here we are today. I think you would have rather had the horses. I am a breeder of merit in both German and Weihard Pointers and Klumber Spaniels. I am a retired zone representative for the Professional Handlers Association. And I am currently a licensed American Kennel Club judge. I promise you that if I don't know the answer to your question, I know somebody that does. I'm really, really good at knowing people. Not so good at knowing everything, but I'm really good at knowing people. So tonight, our goals are to answer your questions live. Some of you may be able to actually access my cell phone if you're super special. If you're not, drop it in the live chat and I will absolutely answer it. I have my trusty assistant, Stacy Anderson-Belt here to tell us what I'm missing. Don't knock over the little mannequin thing there, dude. Say, Hey, join the conversation. Stump the host, right? Like, I don't know everything. I promise you, there will be special guests, drumroll that will occur tonight and going forward. So I'm very, very excited about that opportunity for all of us. And with that, I open it up. We were talking a little bit. There is PS, a poll up here at the top of the live chat. Feel free to pop into that poll. And we were talking a little bit. I asked some questions before we came live. What are you guys excited about? What's in store for 2022? So talk to me. Talk to me, people. What is it y'all got going on? I am very excited. I don't often anymore get to show my own dogs. I mean, obviously I did that for a living for a lot of years, but I don't get to very much anymore. And I am so excited because my Spannoni Italiano Agatha is entered at a dog show coming up in a couple of weeks. And I'm very, very excited about that. So that's my excitement. We also have the Spannoni Italiano National, the Wirehair Pointer National and a few other items out here on the West Coast this year that will be a lot of fun. So, okay, Jennifer, I know you're out there, Isabel. I know you're out there. Those are the people I've seen. Oh, and Sawyer, Sawyer, Sawyer Gleason told us that this year she's specialing a dog for the first time. So, Sawyer, I want you to drop into live chat if you have any specific questions about that. And I'm going to refer you guys to one of the early, early podcasts that's about having a plan and knowing where your dog excels, where your dog needs work, and also basically looking around at the competition, right? So when you decide that you're going to special a dog, and so for those who are unfamiliar with sort of the lingo of the purebred dog world and dog shows in general, the idea is that a special is a champion, a dog that has already finished his championship and is competing for best of breed and then to go on to group and best in show competition. Okay? And you know, the thing about it is you can have really a pretty good dog. And if that dog does not have an opinion of itself, right? An idea, if you go back and you listen to like episode 10, where Bill McFadden and Taffy McFadden talk about some of their great specials, and what is the difference between a good dog and a great dog? And it is almost exclusively that it factor. And when a dog has that component, it's much like the great actors and actresses in Hollywood, they absolutely have a sense of themselves. They have an idea that literally the poopy falls out there behind in little gold nuggets. And they convey that idea to the judge, to the bystanders, to everyone around them. And that is quite often the difference between a very good dog that structurally, physically meets the standard, does all the stuff, checks all the boxes. It's a good dog and a great dog. And there is a difference. And so you should understand that and know exactly what you're working with and set your goals accordingly. So if you have a good dog that is okay in the show ring, and you're showing it as an owner handler and all the rest of it, that is one type of campaign. And you can expect to do well, you can expect to in most breeds probably be ranked in the top 10. In breed competition, you'll probably pick up a few group placements. You could do very, very well, often in the underhandle group as well. And, and so those are, those are one set of goals. And I believe that when we special a dog having goals that are realistic is what's important. Okay, you guys wait, I think we might be having an incoming call here from possibly one of our special guests. Who might this be? Laura, this is Susan Patterson. Oh my god, Susan, I am so excited. Susan is joining us all the way from Quebec. Yes, Montreal. Yes. Yes, where she really freezing my toes off with minus four degrees Fahrenheit. And I understand they just shut down Quebec again. And you had to go grocery shopping frantically before you couldn't go anywhere. I did. It was pretty good. But it all worked. We're good. I, you know, I want to answer Sawyer's question here real shortly. But Susan, you might be able to be a fabulous everyone who doesn't know Susan Patterson, please get to know Susan Patterson. She is a breeder of Labrador retrievers. She runs a phenomenal Facebook group that she's going to tell us the name of because I can never do the words right in the right order. So Susan, the canine fertility reproduction and neonatal issues Facebook group. Excellent. But I will tell you the caveat on that. We'd love to have new breeders join. But you need to be a sponsored entry. So if you don't know someone in the group, reach out to Laura or myself, we will be happy to sponsor you sponsored in. Absolutely. Excellent. Okay, so Susan, you're going to be a great foil for me because I'm the rare breeds person and you're the lab gal. So I'm saying we have great, we have great different opinions on these things. So and I was listening to you earlier about Sawyer. That's that was really interesting. She has a Laotian. So I'm very excited because of course, I love Laotian. I showed a Laotian. I taught a handling class that had Laotian. I believe Laotian are conceivably the single most underrated dog in the world. I love them. I think everyone should own one. So Sawyer has a Laotian that she's going to be showing as a special. She's like the only one at the show, she figures and and unless she brings others or goes to specialties, she wants to know if there's a different approach to specialing a rare breed dog that would be different than a popular breed. And and Susan, I'm going to ask your input on this, but I'm going to answer it first. Okay, so speaking as a rare breeds person, Sawyer almost everything I ever campaigned in my life was a rare breed. I spent 25 years as a dog handler on the only popular breed dog I ever won a Best in Show On was a pug. Everything else was a clumber, a wire hair, a Spanone, a Manchester, a sparrow hound. I mean, I'm telling you, rare breeds do require special skills. So one of the things that you're going to want to do is decide whether what your goal is, is your goal to rank your dog as the number one in breed points. In other words, by dogs defeated in Best of Breed Competition, or number one, or top five, or whatever you choose to decide in all breed points, which is dogs defeated in group competition in the non sporting group in your case, Sawyer. So I showed this is such a great example, two wire hair pointers, a couple years apart, one was a phenomenal wire hair pointer and a terrible show dog. And the other one was a very good wire hair pointer and a phenomenal show dog. Okay, and so I had different goals for these two dogs. The very good wire hair pointer, who was not a great show dog, probably had a total of three group placements in his entire life. But he was the number one. He was select dog at the National Specialty under a breeder, judge, etc. etc. The super great show dog who was also a good wire hair pointer was a Best in Show Winner and ranked in the top in all breed and in breed competition. So make your decisions about what dog you have. Do you have a great dog of your breed who is an okay show dog? Or do you have a good dog of your breed who is a phenomenal show dog? Make your decisions based on that. If you want to aim for the number one in breed points, you're going to go to different dog shows than if you're aiming for the number one in all breed points, right? You're going to want to know your judges. You're going to want to know where there are dogs entered. Specialties are going to be really important if you're going for the number one in the breed. And maybe not so important if you're going for the number one, I'll breed. Okay, so that's my advice on low entry breeds. Susan, what's your thought coming from a more popular breed? So I show both a very popular breed, the Labrador, and I show a less popular breed who I'm special in right now, Gordon Setter. So you're absolutely right, Laura, in structuring two ways of how you look at your dog. And so right now it's going to be really important for Sawyer to decide, you know, what kind of dog she has and what her goal is. I think that when I look at my less popular breed, which is the Gordon Setter, it was very easy for me to be the number 13 ranked Setter in the year with minimal showing because there just aren't that many dogs out there as far as Gordon Setters. But my goal for my dog is to have a placement at Westminster. So therefore, I am, I actually miss the specialties because we were out on maturity leave the dog and instead now we are taking her to all of the all breeds that we can find which have more than Gordon Setters with the goal being to get into group. Okay. And once you're in group, that's where for me the points are going to come for her. Right. And so there's also I think Susan specialties. Right, Susan, your dog is being shown by a professional handler. Is that correct? That's correct. Okay. So that's another layer that we add into this, right? Is your dog going to be shown by a professional handler or are you going to show it yourself? And are you interested in competing in the underhandled competition? Which I think is a fabulous competition. I judge a lot of them and I'm going to tell you that frequently the underhandled groups, frequently if not every time, not necessarily every time, but frequently the owner handled groups I judge are as competitive and as deep in quality as the quote unquote regular groups that the grown up dog judges are judging. I'm still a baby dog judge and I don't have a whole group so but I think that that's an important layer to add into it Susan. Yeah, absolutely. I really do enjoy showing my own dogs but that doesn't mean right now that I have either the time or the ability. Right. So the goal is if you're not going to show your own dog you have to find someone that you can trust literally as your partner in this because they're going to invest as much of their time and their energy and focus and you're going to compensate them for it. So you need to be prepared for that as well. I will tell you the very quick story of my last best of breed win at Westminster. She was only showed like seven times before she took best of breed at Westminster and everybody about killed me for that one but that is the anomaly, totally the anomaly and that was a Labrador back in 2005. So you know it is definitely layered depending on structure of what you're looking for. Right and Sawyer just commented and I think this is a really great comment to kind of spin down from Susan. You and I can talk about it. Anybody else want to pitch in? Sawyer notes that she has a hard time knowing how competitive her dog is. She has the attitude, she has the structure, she thinks but she's new so she doesn't know how to set attainable goals and I just think this is super self-aware and a super good question, Sawyer. And so my suggestion is always, always, always going to be go back to your breeder, go back to your mentor and get input from them. Okay and you know there are instances where people would say you should do it because you you know in the back of their mind I really want people to not kind of go there in their minds. Trust your mentors, find a good mentor. Sawyer, if you have questions on that topic I am more than happy. I know several really phenomenal Lausian breeders that I would trust to to evaluate your dog and I'd be personally happy to put you with them. So I really think it's important to understand that the a golden retriever, a Labrador retriever, etc. those breeds are going to be more challenging, right? They're going to be a tougher gig than a Lausian. Thoughts on that Susan? Yeah, I definitely think they're a tougher gig. When someone says they've finished three Labradors this year I want to stand up and like build them a pedestal because the competition is huge. I know I finished this year Champion Master Hunter and that was who I concentrated everything on. Absolutely everything. No other dog got very much attention at all and it does the popular breeds are tough. I almost really rather have a vulnerable breed or a breed you know like a Lausian that you really love that you're competing with. Makes a big difference. It really does and I give huge props to my friends that are showing goldens and showing labs and showing you know Bernie's Mountain Dogs or French Bulldogs or something that there's 90 million of these things, right? It's a challenge and so the opposite end of that spectrum is what Sire sort of mentioned a little while ago. The the challenge of getting enough dogs to have competition, right? Like getting enough I showed I specialed a Lausian. I had a Lausian entry to compete against like twice in six months. It was insanity. Well and that's where you mentioned before the specialties matter. I know Julie Gittin who has the Seske Terriers has a similar problem. You know sometimes you have to literally build your own show and it requires everybody working together as a team and sometimes that's tough but it is doable. Right and and that is one of the things that I'm going to strongly encourage and I'm just going to take a minute. Somebody mentioned that the computer was buffering and we were possibly offline. Hang on half a second. Please be sure you're not on my wi-fi. Okay. I'm sorry. What wi-fi issues here in the boondocks? So the important question here is to do with working together, right? And and a lot of times we encourage people that are new. Okay good thanks Isabel. A lot of people that are new we really encourage them to find find friends outside their breed and because you know competition is a thing and competition can sometimes not be super charming but on the other hand you have to be able to work with people in your breed particularly in a low entry breed like Susan's Gordon Sutter's like my wearer-hair pointers like Stacey's Spannoni, right? You have to be able to at least get along and find out where people are entering dogs. Otherwise it's constant constant constant uphill battle. Oh this is super great. Oh Sawyer this is awesome. Sawyer's got some comments you guys will see in the live chat. Her breeder is very supportive of her continuing to show the dog. They think that she's worthy and they're going to have her show some of their dogs as well and see that's great. This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. Teamwork makes the dream work guys. I'm like sorry that's so freaking corny and cheesy but it's a fact, right? Work with the people who helped you get the dog. Work with them. Assume that they are in it for good. Assume that they're trying to help you. Assume good things. When we assume good things our life gets so much better. Sawyer I think that is pretty spectacular. Okay Susan what else do you have for us on the idea of campaigning a more popular breed? Thinking about the Labradors. What are some of the you've had you've had winners in labs in the past you know three winners of the garden etc. What's your thought on that? The big thing is to know your judges and know your dog. You know like you said you've got to find the dog who really wants it. You know I my dog who did the best winning for me she I was thoroughly, thoroughly convinced that she was going to get in big arenas and absolutes but what we discovered was the bigger the venue the better she did because she believed they were there for her. The smaller venues she was like it's not enough fans. Have parade over it. Yeah and she wouldn't turn it on so you you've got to know your dog you've got to know the judges and you also have to I think the biggest thing is to forgive your dog when it has an off day because the dog doesn't really give a damn about this we do. They are doing it for us. Can I say that again? The dog is doing this for us. Not them. If you don't win I know right now one of the number one handler and one of the number one labs you know had a really bad weekend and they were like you know what at the end of the day the dog that I took home is still the best dog. I think having that attitude matters because it allows you to go back in the ring the next time and say here we go again rather than stupid dog I can't believe you did this to me well the dog didn't do it to you. The dog didn't do it to you much pointed I mean you know there are times that our dogs don't do right like what we'd want them to do like they don't turn it on or they don't perform or they don't whatever and and I just I'm gonna absolutely second what Susan is saying third fourth fifth and tenth and judges judges have bad days too you know they would normally they would never no never have a bad day no it might have happened but but I think it's valid I think it's really important to understand what matters and what doesn't okay there is another dog show tomorrow um there's another dog show the day after that you know yeah well someone someone had asked me how I maintain such a pretty even composure and all this stuff and I said I have come to the conclusion after 40 years that the dogs are the frosting on my cupcake they are not my whole cupcake but they make my cupcake better and so there's you know striving for balance in your life so that you've got the ability to have a good day at a dog show and then go do something else and have a great day it keeps you centered and if you're centered you're a better handler and a better owner well and I I mean like I said I made a living at this for a lot of years and and if you don't get a good attitude write the f off you're in big trouble right and so my point is literally there's another dog show tomorrow and you make decisions that are right for the dog you learn about judges you learn about your competition you know Sawyer will find out I can't go to X area or I can't go to the other area because of you know why whatever it is um and that's and that's fine right live and learn um and it's okay to skip a dog show if it's not the right show for you too you know I for most of my career I showed dogs with some pretty serious health conditions and I consistently go for weekends a month as a professional handler that can be a real challenge that's your entire income and you're choosing not to go to a dog show because oh you know I can't um so let me tell you done right done properly done conscientiously there is no reason to go to a dog show every blessed weekend unless the thing that you're running for is the number one dog of all breeds and that takes a very very very very very special team special dog special bank account special lots of things most of us aren't running for the number one dog all breeds yeah I'm candidly I'm very happy to have you know been ranked in the top 10 in my breeds and that is really for me that's great I don't think I have at the moment maybe I will in the future that special dog I have I've done as a handler I've done a lot of winning right an enormous amount of winning and I've always had a plan for each dog and and sometimes the plan developed dog developed you know I the Spannoni that came to me not knowing nothing for nothing and was scared of his own shadow that turned into a best-in-show dog that I would never never have anticipated um and his career was cut short because he couldn't hack the pressure um and so it's those are the sorts of things that you have to always always always always put the dog first yeah I think that that really is important and we need to always keep that in our heads again they do it for us they don't care I mean there's cheese and there's kisses other than that the running in left-handed circles is no dog's idea of a great time there are dogs who love the spotlight there are dogs again like I said go back and listen to that podcast I did with Bill and Taffy talking about a dog like Mick the Cary Blue Terrier there are dogs that are like the Tom Cruises and the and the and the Glenn Closes of the world in humans that just know that just know what they are um and then there's the other 98 percent yeah um I think that's also why knowing you know most dogs have a function and you and I have sporting breeds I think varying what they do um I know working in the field gives my dogs enormous pleasure and it makes them more willing to do what I think sometimes they think is the silly stuff like you said running those left-handed circles right good muscle tone is important it keeps them happy good mindset's important so in answer sorry to your question is there's such a thing as too young to start specialing a dog absolutely there is but it depends on the breed and it depends on the individual so for example um a giant breed dog say for example an Irish wolf founder a mastiff you're not going to show that dog is a special before it's too I mean you're just not the dog isn't there um I the one particular spinoni I was talking about I showed him from two to four and I wished desperately that I could have shown him from four to six because he would have been a better dog um that applies to most of the large and giant breeds in your toy breeds your non sporting breeds like a lauchin a lauchin doesn't have the same level of like development required right like it has some hair growth and some other things to do but many dogs that I see in toys and non sporting are competing very successfully before they're a year old um that's absolutely right Laura right right I I think it just absolutely depends on the dog the breed and the individual um Stacy my my kivits are here has got a great question that I think is of use to everyone can you treat ring time like a paid dog show as a handling class and my answer to that is if you have to yeah I'm COVID welcome to COVID um many dogs have not been able to get in a handling class they haven't had a fun match um all of those things and Isabel what she's saying is Stacy's comment is about they've got to get used to the ring eventually and if you can't get to a handling class and you can't get to a fun match and life is such here in in pandemic world yeah eat the 40 bucks eat the 30 bucks eat the however much that entry is don't enter the dog every day um enter the dog under judges that you know or have good information are very good with new dogs young dogs baby puppies you know whatever it is um but there's only one way handling class is great fun matches are great but I'm going to tell you as an absolute matter of fact there is no substitute for a dog show you paid your money you've got competition you takes your chances and the level of nerves in you that translates directly to the dog the level of competition the level of of intensity ratchets up as your as your entry fee amount goes up and and Stacy is a great person to talk about how she did a beautiful job showing her puppy when nobody was looking um and took her to the national and I was there and everybody was looking and she literally froze um and this isn't picking on anybody this is a fact the the the stress level ratchets up and and it's important to understand that for you and her dog yeah exactly because people say well my dog did so differently in the show ring and it's it's just like riding a horse everything you feel transmits right down that show lead it does and you know I mean let's just keep in mind guys people use these dogs as therapy dogs as protection dogs as all of those things they know when we're nervous right and so it depends on the breed I can't tell you how many akitas I showed and finished because when the owner showed them they were nervous and so the dog would growl at the judge because the akita's mind is such that if my mommy my owner my handler is scared that other person must be a bad guy and I should make him go away that's how an akita thinks many other breeds aren't going to think that way they're going to think I'm scared mom scared I'm going to be scared or mom scared I'm going to cheer her up you know all of those things right every individual and every breed has a way of handling that Susan what's your thoughts on that if you're like my mini dox and who finished by nine months if mom's scared I'm going to jump in her lap I'll make her feel better it'll be good right and I don't I think that that's really a thing and I think to back to Stacy showing lark at the national and lark was a goober and I think that's what she was doing she was trying to cheer Stacy up right yep absolutely totally I did great when there were no points involved I want it yes but as soon as we got out of sweepstakes I lost it for the dog who went on to best of winners at the national specialty with a different handler so so I think that's really important to understand is you know people talk all the time about oh handlers this and handlers that and they beat the owner handlers well the reason for that is that the handlers have no nerves that's how they got good at this they literally have no nerves and so there's nothing for the dog to pick up on and the owner handlers still have nerves and the great owner handlers don't have any nerves either and so I'm just going to say this is a matter of of actual factual observation over 40 years welcome Jamie I'm so excited to see you here Jamie Morris is Cedar Hollow Mastiff's and she asks do you feel that you as UKC IABCA shows to gain ring experience prior to jumping into the deep end with AKC competition and and meaning for folks that don't have the confidence to start with AKC I absolutely 100,000 percent think that is the case Jamie I 100 percent believe that those are great places we don't have AKC used to have fun matches all the time local clubs have fun matches all the time we don't have them anymore and so without being disrespectful to IABCA and UKC as formats they are not fun matches they are their own points and title progressions but for people who want to eventually compete and AKC they can serve that purpose you can get a title you can do all the stuff you can compete you can have the nerves without having quite the same level of pressure and I think that those are tremendous resources and Jamie I really appreciate you bringing those up and putting those forward okay so I have a question I don't know I'm fearing congratulations on the show I'm super excited I'm fun how do you get an honest evaluation of your dog's show quote-unquote show worthiness oh hi Marta how are you I got it I got you placed um yes Jamie the IABCA and UKC shows are much more laid back Marta in answer to your question and Susan weigh in here with your thoughts on this as well but my thought is find a professional handler that maybe is not super competitive in your breed or a judge of your breed who might live near you your breeder always a great solution if that's not a perfect option seek out some of the top people in your breed um are people who will give you honest evaluations of your dog's um potential okay I can Susan answer your thoughts and then I want to follow up a little bit okay I you know one of the things that I started with years ago was cat Hastings books on structure and you need to know structure so that you can objectively look at your own dog and so that when someone points out something to you and says you have a dropped group or you have um you know some other issue that they think your dog you know is and they're nitpicking is needs a little help on you could do exercise or that exercise that you're aware of it so I think it's you start with becoming self aware of the correct structure of your own breed and then applying it to your dog so that when you talk to someone you are learning and able to apply it and I think that's really important and I agree with you um find a professional handler who works if you have a terrier who works in terriers but maybe doesn't do your breed specifically so they're not blowing smoke up your skirt because you're looking for an honest opinion um and I would oops I think we may have just lost Susan for a moment I I think I would really appreciate you taking a look the dog isn't entered um could I make an appointment to come spend some time with you most of the good dog people I know will give you time and and they will help you and it and it works a lot it it just really matters gives you objective look at your stuff 100 Susan and so there's a couple things Stacy just made the comment get a video of your dog both a photo a good photo and a video of your dog moving um so that you can watch and you can see and then what I'm gonna recommend go read your standard I I will tell you guys I did a breeder education thing for my breed a few years back and had you know a couple dozen people in the room many of whom were multiple litters into their breeding programs and I quizzed them on the standard and they couldn't answer the questions y'all seriously if you're gonna breed dogs if you're going to show dogs you must and I'm going to capitalize and underline and exclamation point must know know your breed standard not you know have glanced at it once or twice know your breed standard read it memorize it be able to quote it verbata some of you guys might have seen the 12 steps to a better you in the dog fancy and that I just put out a couple last week I think it was last week's podcast um and and I think that it's really important really important for people to listen to that to make the connection to understand what's actually going on um and so Marta's asking about the standard she said I read it but as a new this is such a great question Marta as a newbie I have trouble translating written word to the dog in front of me and I love that question that is such a great question and it's part of why I do some of the presentations I do for pure dog talk talking about structure and and getting people together and you have to put your physically put your hands on the dog and feel the shoulders and feel the upper arm and feel the loin and feel the as badness rifle etc and have someone explain to you what that means in relationship to the standard and until you are able to acquire that knowledge you are it's like you're reading in Greek or shooting blind right like you are absolutely correct Marta and I think that is so incredibly important so just as another quick suggestion and I've seen this in pure dog talk where we've got a bunch of younger breeders who have started collecting books on their breed yes and I think that can give you a sense of looking at dogs who meet or are great representatives of your breed standard without feeling you know overwhelmed because you can start reading it page by page and there is so much written on each breed even the vulnerable ones or the rare breeds there's quite a lot written yes and Susan's absolutely right that if you take do that and then mirrors use mirrors take and a big mirror and start setting your dog up in front of the mirror so that you can see what others see yes when you set your dog up and that's that Susan what you're talking about is the same thing that Stacy was talking about with the using your your your smart phone you know take pictures of your dog have someone else take pictures of your dog set your phone up and run a video while you move down and back and round right like we did those cyrus sweepstakes shows last summer that during COVID and it was so great because people got to learn how to videotape their dogs it was amazing it was totally fabulous so I really think that that is an incredibly important ability and then take that and compare it word by word with the standards yep and the other thing my last handling class I confess was almost two years ago COVID and the instructor again used full length mirrors and she said consider this your ballet class I want you to see form I want you to see flow I want you to see how you and your dog work together so mirrors are great if you can have a garage where you put one side mirrors where you can go back and forth it it helps you see yourself and see your dog and how what you do whether it's a something as slight as tightening up a little bit too tight on the collar or letting it too loose if your dog is proceeding you or following you or you're constantly looking down rather than looking forward right it's the little things that matter showing well and I think you know both the the mirrors and faces commentary about the photos and and video and video the mirror the advantage there is that you can actually see the difference while you do it right like you take a video and you like oh I need to do something different you do something different you take another video right the great thing about the mirror is you can actually see oh wait I bait down I bait up I crank the dog's head right so so those are super important ideas and Jamie made a really great point that I think is of incredible value and that is that sit ringside don't just go to the dog show show your dog get second and leave right first of all if you get second you should stick around for reserve anyway don't get last and leave watch other breeds watch the groups watch your breed all the way through best of breed see take it in you're not going to learn it overnight this is they tell us it's not rocket science but it is an acquired skill and like anything that takes time and takes effort and takes dedication and takes commitment and takes passion and practice and all of those things um you know I I tell people all the time you you wouldn't want your mechanic to do brain surgery and and and you wouldn't expect your brain surgeon to know how to fix your car you shouldn't expect to know everything about dogs this isn't actually super easy it actually does require some effort on your part and and so take the time take the respect take the understanding and accept other people's opinions and know that just because you love your dog doesn't actually make it a great one of its breed and and I'm not gonna lie to you that is one of the toughest things to swallow when we're first getting started um again I'm going to send you back to a an early podcast because it happens to be one of my personal favorites virginia lion who is a very very iconic judge from canada and one of my most favorite humans on the planet um was my very very even before bill and taffy mcfatton I interviewed virginia lion and jenny and I were talking and she was going through her commentary about how she thinks about the dogs as she goes down the line and she's talking about you know watching the dogs and seeing the face and seeing the structure and seeing this and and she was thinking about critiques we were talking about writing critiques and she describes reaching one dog in the lineup and saying darlin your mother loves you and that's really important it's really important we all love our dogs we love them desperately we love them whether they fuggly or not but our loving them does not make them good ones it certainly does make them great ones if you so here's the challenge if you have a dog that you have purchased and you're walking in new and you look go to a show because you've never been to it you notice that the dogs don't look like yours either you love your dog and need to start again or is the breed type style pendulum swung away and do you have the correct breed type for your breed and that's a hard question for some people to answer it is it is Susan and I and I think that is such a valuable point I tell people all the time there is such a thing as having a dog that meets the standard that looks nothing like the other dogs in the ring and and it is sad but true in today's world apple apple apple apple come quiet what the hell is that right well exact and and I can say it happens in the abledo world happens in every world Susan this isn't this isn't a thing yeah I had one of the very first like my very first paying client as a dog handler was an Irish wool found that was imported from the nutstown kennels in Ireland and she was absolutely stunning and I met the people in a completely different environment and saw this dog and said oh sweet Jesus you have to let me show this dog anyway she looked nothing and I do mean literally nothing like the other dogs in the ring in the Pacific Northwest like they could have been different breeds and yet she was very very correct she was from an incredibly famous kennel in Ireland and and we were frequently the come quiet but when we weren't when people when the judges recognized what she was and and the qualities that she offered she won handily so it is important to understand that there are times that you will be the odd man out and and that may be because you have not a very good dog or it could be because you have a very good dog and the rest of them are not so knowing the difference between those two things is pretty much life and death and dogs right or pocket books or pocket books for sure all right uh you guys we have come close to the end of our hour Susan Patterson thank you thank you very much thank you for joining us as our uh hostess with the mostis helper and Stacy I appreciate you coming providing input all of you listeners thank you for joining us um I am so so glad that everyone could make it this recording will be available on our youtube channel I will also um try to get it posted on facebook on the pure dog talk facebook page you guys please please please always understand I am a complete dumbass when it comes to technology so I'm gonna do you the best I can so please be nice to me and once I get this done share it on with everybody you know and I'm super excited I am excited to do this every month my goal is to do this god willing and the creeks don't rise the first tuesday of every month again please remember embark and true panion who make all of this even an option so happy new year people 2022 we're kicking it off on the first one yay Laura finally got to do it Susan I we tried to do this before so we did it thanks everyone absolutely thrilled to have everyone join you join join you join me join us join the party talk to you soon peace out