 Welcome to Dare to Dream. This award-winning podcast is hosted by Debbie Daschinger. We've been on air and on podcast going on 14 years, nominated for two People's Choice Podcast Awards and a Webby Award, and Dare to Dream is ranked in the top very best podcasts in all of USA and self-improvement on Apple Podcasts. We are trending this week in South Korea as well as in Vietnam. Thank you so much to those countries for joining us on this journey. Debbie Daschinger is a certified coach whose expertise is visibility in media. She coaches people to write a page, turn her book. If you wanna write a book, join her ongoing live monthly bookwriting membership. Go to debbiedaschinger.com slash visible visionaries. If you've already written a book, she's got a company who takes your book to a guaranteed international bestseller. And she runs the ultimate visibility formula, how you can get booked to be interviewed on radio and podcasts and get mad crazy awesome results. Just go to debbiedaschinger.com slash message and get your free tools and templates so you can start being interviewed today. This show is sponsored by drdanehere.com as well as accessconsciousness.com. Question, do you wanna live a life of clarity, courage and inspired action? Our guest today is Dr. Morgan Oaks. Dr. Morgan Oaks is a transformational speaker, coach and healer who empowers the conscious cultivation, body, mind and spirit through the process of intuitive listening and courageously inspired action. Dr. Morgan's motto is, I want for you what you want for yourself. His tools and skills include being a chiropractor, certified high performance coach, NLP practitioner, shamanic practitioner and energy worker. Dr. Morgan blends ancient wisdom with the tools of modern transformation to bring synergy to healing and evolution. To learn more, go to drmorganoaks.com. Welcome Dr. Morgan Oaks to the Dare to Dream show. It's so wonderful to have you here. Yeah, so great to be here Debbie. I'm excited for our conversation today. Absolutely. And because I know you, but I know you now, if you will. So I want people to also know you. You've had this wonderful, windy path, which I love because I have too. I never would have guessed I would be here doing this today, but ta-da. So your path of emergence, you've been in mechanical engineering. You've been a chiropractor, firefighting. You've got the comedian in you. I've seen you speaking on stage. You've got a lot of you that lives out loud. And now this very energy shamanic piece. Can you talk about how that manifested, Morgan? How did that all unfold that you started in this one place and sort of skied down the mountains to where you are right now? Yeah, thank you, Debbie. It's it's been a very different path. I mean, I would have never guessed I would have ended up here either. And I grew up in a very small town in Wyoming, you know, very blue collar. And for me, you know, I got into mechanical engineering because I loved like dirt bikes and snowmobiles. And I was good at math and science, right? So it's kind of like I've just always followed what seems like the most logical next step. And I got into that and and could do everything but didn't enjoy being trapped in like a cubicle, you know, I was very extroverted compared to a lot of people in my classes and got out into industry. And then I was like, OK, how do I get out from behind the computer? And I had had a not a serious but I definitely had a neck injury in eighth grade football and my chiropractor had taken care of it basically in one visit. And so through my football career and through a rugby career, I also was just receiving a lot of chiropractic really believed in it. And I'm like, oh, I could do this and not be stuck behind a computer. So stepped into chiropractic and was doing that. And it's interesting, even with that, I remember at Kinko's, you know, back when you would have to go like work at Kinko's to stay up late and get things done and print things for school. I'm in the line at Kinko's and I pick up Robert Kiyosaki's book, Rich Dad Poor Dad. And the line is so long, I read a decent amount of it when I'm there. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I just educated myself into the wrong level of, you know, of entrepreneurship, you know, where I'm going to be doing a lot of the work. And so even leaving chiropractic, I wondered if there weren't more steps out there for me. So stepped into chiropractic. And then I was doing, you know, stand up comedy on the weekends. I would drive an hour away from my office. So I could be kind of like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyatt, I would be, you know, Dr. Rooks during the week and Morgan on the comedy stage during the weekends and having kind of these like really compartmentalized split lives, which was going fine. And then I had a spiritual awakening. And that's where a lot of the other stuff washed in. And I had to really kind of reevaluate. So, of course, my curiosity goes nuts when you say, and then I had a spiritual awakening. So what was that all about? When did that happen? How long ago? And what were the different pieces that occurred? Yeah. So the spiritual awakening happened. It would have been like end of 2004, beginning of 2005. And the things that were happening, it was about a year into my chiropractic practice, and I was four years into a relationship that was coming apart, you know, and at a certain point, I had an auto accident. I was driving home from work one night and got t-boned. And, you know, so as things are coming apart, you know, with this breakup and this auto accident, I always joke that it was like a bad country song, like lost my girl, lost my dog, lost my house, crashed my truck. And all of these things happened probably between like November and March, you know, so fairly quick. And, you know, the relationship ends and I'm at the end of my first year in small business and I'm almost out of the loans and I'm not sure I'm going to make it over the hump. So I'm just having a tremendous amount of stress as well. And and at that time, you know, little synchronicities and little things started popping up. I started meeting different people in my life that I had ever met before, you know, hearing words I had never heard before, ideas I had never thought of before. And then I had a friend that asked if I wanted to do mushrooms with them. And this is a story I haven't shared very often. But, you know, at a certain point, he's like, hey, do you want to do mushrooms? And I had done them a couple of times before as a rugby player. And I was like, yeah, like, yeah, let's go ahead and do that. That'll be great. And what he divided up was basically a plate full of mushrooms. And I was like, you know what? That would that's enough mushrooms to feed a rugby team. He's like, yeah, I know he goes, here's your half. Oh, my God. So it was just this monster amount. And the, you know, the doctor in me is like, well, I know this can't kill me. And I trust him. And so I stepped in. And that night, there were a lot of like crazy ideas, a lot of crazy thoughts. There was a lot of things tied to who I was in the world in, you know, kind of in contrast to where I grew up in Wyoming. A lot of thoughts and ideas about who did I want to be in relationship with like the type of woman I wanted to be in relationship with. And the next morning I woke up and I was like, wow, there was a lot of psychological truth that came out of last night. And that was the thing that got me thinking about, OK, like I'm the plateau in my chiropractic business. I'm, you know, I'm the the persons that's the common variable in these relationships that haven't worked out. And it really helped me step onto my my personal growth path. And then from there it really skyrocketed, you know, the number of synchronicities, the number of intuitions. And that was really the start of me doing a lot more listening to the universe and and trying to use that information to guide, you know, all aspects of my life. I'm going to circle back to this. I'm going to put a little placeholder there. I love this and and that's profound. And boy, you brave half a plate of mushrooms. So I'm sure that was quite the night and good for you for being that open, especially, you know, it's interesting at times like that. It's almost easy to shut down when a lot is going wrong. And we feel very much the victim to circumstances and breakups and loss and all sorts of things concurrently happening. And yet, you know, you made a different turn. You made a choice to stay very open. So that leads me to being curious about your strategies, because I know you talk about as a coach, you talk about that there are strategies out there that we can use, anyone can use to take ourselves from where we are in our life right now to instead the life we prefer. So I'd love if you could talk a bit about what are those strategies? What are things we can employ? I'm sure being open is one of them being open is certainly one of them. And it's interesting throughout my life, you know, even as a chiropractor, I took on many, many, many different techniques, you know, and I was like, oh, yeah, this one works, but why do these other 12 techniques also work? You know, and if I'm working on somebody, why does this help nine out of 10 people, but not that 10th person, right? Like, what else can I add in? So, you know, I added in chiropractic, physical therapy, added in neurolinguistic programming to address the unconscious mind. Energy work and shamanic work just started happening intuitively at a certain point. And, you know, I'm always adding new tools in. And when you talk about this framework or this idea of like, how do you keep moving? For me, it's been it's been staying open to what I don't know. And it's it's been noticing the things that are working and really leaning into them and then noticing the things that aren't so that I can that I can make change, you know. And as a mechanical engineer, I don't know that I've ever said this before in a conversation with somebody, but objects in motion tend to stay in motion. Wait, say that again. Objects in motion tend to stay in motion. OK, you know, and so it's an it's an engineering theory. And what I'm realizing as you're talking, objects in positive motion tend to stay in positive motion. People in bad motion always tend to stay in bad motion as well. And so, you know, for a lot of us, I think the first place to creating positive change is just really starting to notice where you are in life and health and relationship and business, just starting to to be curious to see what's working and what's a struggle. You know, a lot of us get caught in a plateau and we're like, oh, well, we've always done it this way. Or this is, you know, what my, you know, my partner and I do on the weekends, it's this or this is what we do after dinner. Or, you know, this is how I market my business and we can get caught in a really flat place that will last for years or decades. What if somebody is having a health challenge? I just think of that when you bring up that example of the stasis that people can get into. So let's say that somebody is having a health challenge because I think most things you can sort of reverse engineer and figure your way out of, but health can be a quandary. It can be very difficult because you can end up throwing pasta at the wall and not really find your way out or spend a lot of money and not know what is viable? What is the way for me to get my health back? Maybe you have hip problems or maybe people have weight problems. And like I have a friend who talks about this a lot of a weight problem and nothing I do changes that. And I believe her. And, you know, there are people out there with autoimmune situations and they say, we don't know what causes this. So as someone who works in this field, what would you say to somebody? How could they start on the path to create positive momentum around that? Yeah. First of all, I want to acknowledge anybody that's caught in a loop of something that's not working, you know, whether it's mental, emotional, physical, it's it's tough. You know, I've been in them myself. They're not enjoyable. And what we usually say when we're in that place and we're talking to loved ones or the next, you know, resource we're trying to lean into is I've tried everything. Right. We always say I've tried everything. And and for most of us, that's not actually true. And so if anybody is in a situation where you're not happy with the outcome that you're at, you know, I would really look at what options have you tried and what are the options that you haven't tried and try to find that other place? You know, I have lots of people who come to me as a chiropractor and maybe they've tried everything else, but chiropractic and not got results or maybe they've been with another chiropractor for years and it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. They're needing another chiropractor to look at it with fresh eyes. You know, that's one way to look at it. And the other thing is I like having people on my team that are willing to give a solution outside of themselves. Right. So the other thing is when I have people come to see me, whether it's for coaching or it's energy work or some other type of growth work. When I start with them, if I don't think I can get results, I refer them out. If I get the intuitive hit or the, you know, the hit from, you know, 20, 25 years in this industry that they need to be somewhere else, I refer them out. And if I do a course of care that I think is going to create change and it doesn't, then I refer them out, right? And so for a lot of people, they've been doing the same thing for months or years and it's not working. And so it may be just time for a different shift. It may be time to find that other person that will give a different perspective. And if you've if you've only been in the kind of allopathic western medical model. Look at the statistically, we're one of the sickest countries on the planet. So we're not doing amazing in a lot of things like some of the chronic diseases that we have, you know, so it might be time to go a little more holistic. And maybe you know, you've only been with a holistic doctor for the last 10 years and they're not getting you better. Maybe you need to have somebody else with a different, you know, point of view, look at that. So I think that's a big thing for stepping out of any plateau is doing something different and really exploring your options until you find an answer that you like and a solution that works for you. I know you moved to Colorado recently. Are you still practicing chiropractic and what kind of chiropractic do you practice? Yeah, so in my in my last decade in Seattle, it was mostly chiropractic, a little bit coaching, speaking shamanic work. And I really am at a point where I'm wanting to shift that. So now I'm doing just a little bit of chiropractic here and mostly speaking, coaching shamanic work. And my type of chiropractic is I meet you where you're at, you know, so I will do the hand-based adjustments. I will do the lighter activator, you know, you know, clicky tool based adjustments that are a lot lighter that, you know, many people don't enjoy having their neck twisted. They don't enjoy, you know, hearing their bones make that that or the joints make the popping sound. And so I do really light adjustments. I will mix in lighter, more energy based care. I mix in physical therapy where we're looking at kind of like massage, stretching and strengthening. And so I have a lot of different tools so that I can meet people where they're at, because all those tools work. I just want people to be, you know, feeling good about what they're receiving so that we can really amplify how fast things go. And then the last thing I would add in is if your unconscious mind doesn't believe you can get well. And a lot of times, you know, it's so important to really diagnose somebody so we know what we're working with. You know, insurance companies want to diagnose this. It's it's important that we're able to figure out enough of what's going on with somebody to put that label on it so we can help get them better. A lot of times what I see come into my office is that diagnosis has turned into a curse. You know, oh, my gosh, I have this thing and they've defined their life by it. And if you've been told by somebody in a white coat who everything in your DNA has been taught for the last few generations in your family that everything that that white coat says is true tells you you can never get better. Then the first thing we have to do is change your unconscious mind so that your physical body can believe that it can get better. So I mixed just a ton of things and to make sure that I meet people exactly where they're at. And people who are very accomplished, who are very successful and influential, what is the way that they think because you were talking about thoughts and how important the subconscious is. So people who are accomplished and influential, you say they think a particular way, what way is that? If I mean, if they're accomplished and influential, how do they think I'm not exactly sure? And I would say it's probably very, very different. You know, some people are going to move towards success because they have an outcome of helping a certain type of person or changing the planet. You know, some people will move towards the same type of success based on fame, notoriety. You know, if they've got a million dollars in the bank, they still feel like they're going to go broke. Right. So there's so many drivers. I don't know that I would ever label any one thing for any one group. But I think when you find out as a provider, when you figure out what's motivating somebody, that's really great to help them get healthy and well. And just as a human being, when you figure out what's motivating your behaviors, then you can be more conscious and kind of paddle the river as opposed to the river paddling you. So now let's take that pin out of. You have this big spiritual awakening and this lands you where you are now. You've brought up the word shamanic practice several times. So first, I just want. I want people to know what ultimately led you to shamanism. What was the peace there that you felt was a part of a puzzle that was necessary for you? Yeah. In the discovery of these things, when, you know, after that spiritual awakening was rapidly sped up and expanded, I started, like I said, meeting people different than I'd ever met before and they would share words that I had never heard before in a way that I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's important. And I would go home and I would Google it and I might Google a word and those top 10 or 12 pages open up and I would open all of them up and I would start reading. And if there were other words I had never heard before, I would open search engine pages on those as well. So I would just rapidly expand my vocabulary and what I was learning and these ideas. I would go to Barnes and Noble sometimes for like eight hours at a time. I would like read six books when I was there. I'd feel guilty. So I'd buy like six other books to take home. You know, and it might be like the sunniest, most beautiful day in Colorado when I lived here, you know, 12 years ago. And I'd be at Barnes and Noble just like ravenously taking in all these ideas that were new to me. But the reality is I believe what brought me to shamanism is more of a remembering than a learning. Oh, God, I was so there. You just I was going to say, is this a past life? Do you or lives that are coming back up for you? Reconnecting you with that source of shamanism? Yeah, and it's interesting. And this is always such an interesting topic to talk about because I knew nothing. I was like this, you know, is this this skinny kid from Wyoming that grew up on dirt bikes and like very there's nothing spiritual about my upbringing other than a family that loved each other, you know? And so for all of this to happen, it was really it was learning a new language. It was forgetting and letting go a lot of things that I thought I knew. But one other thing that was true for me was I never really believed in the God of religion. Right. I did go to one church camp when I was young and I was probably like seven years old. And I remember leaving one of the classes and it was an art class. It was fun. I made something cool. But my inner voice was saying, I don't believe in this God. But in case he can hear this voice, I better tone it down. So I never really used that inner voice language again. But even at the age of seven, I just didn't resonate kind of the control and like the negative power usage that's taught in the Bible. And so when I found spirituality, I was just like, oh, my God, this resonates. This feels true. Oh, not just one thing's true, but everything's true. I'm in. And as I moved along things, what started happening was I might be working on somebody and I would be like twirling my hand and like throwing something into the garbage can. I just started doing these things that I didn't know what they were, but they made sense. And so I just kept doing them. And luckily, I had people around me that are like, oh, that's Qigong. Oh, that's Reiki. Oh, that's shamanism. Oh, that's old medicine. That'll kill you. Stop doing that. As far as like, you know, sucking energy in to remove it. And so I was really blessed that I had a few people around me that could see what I was doing and they were able to mirror it back to me. And then I was able to start working with it. And really for the last gosh, what are we at now? Like 16 years, my path has been one of. How can I grow? How can I learn? You know, I was in Seattle only to study with the shaman for the last decade, you know, and a lot of my travels, personal growth, reading all ties into this. And even more recently, like finally getting into meditation in the last couple of years, being blessed with great teachers that were able to pull me aside. And they're saying, hey, you're doing something that you can't you can't have done if you didn't have initiations in other lifetimes. Oh my gosh, I find myself fighting. Yeah. So I want to know more about this. You know, you and I are very different. And yet we we also share this because when this opened up for me as well, it was a huge surprise, this resonance because, frankly, I was completely judgmental previous when I heard people talking about drinking medicine and it was like, what are they talking about? Why would you do that? Why would you go do this? Anyway, that's where my head was at. And then, you know, God laughs. And then grandmother tapped me on the shoulder, you come with me. And I mean, I was fully in. It's like I knew I had to do this. And then when I pursued it, so much opened up inside of me and I was lost. Like, what do I do with this information? Thankfully, I have very gifted friends who said, come with me. And just because they loved me, gifted me with all these sessions where I started experiencing past lives was so clear. I have been this and done this many, many times. Now, you're going one way with it and it's manifesting differently. You've really, Morgan, been on the path. So I am so curious, hungry to know more because of my resonance with what you're talking about and honoring that you have jumped the way you have. So start with where you have traveled the lengths, if you will, that you have gone to to allow this into your life and to study this. Yeah. Well, and again, back to my hair standing up on in right now, because this is it's a bit of an epiphany, even though it's how I live and it's what I teach like for all those people in life that life is plateaued. You know, colors have lost their vibrancy. Relationship is flat, like doesn't feel good to make money or to win at events or, you know, like it's I think it's very, very easy that we do everything that we thought we were supposed to do. I'm supposed to attain. I'm supposed to have this job, this relationship, this average number of children, you know, these type of friendships and life plateaus. And we're like, why am I not having fun anymore? Why am I bored? Why don't these things taste good anymore to me? And that's the place where I think this work is really perfect. You know, is finding that next level of connection and vibrancy and and joy and, you know, connection. And so for me, it's about it's all about listening. You know, my my a lot of what I do, even if I'm not speaking about it outright because you know, you meet people where they're at. I speak differently to a lawyer than I do a meditation teacher. Initially, right, I want to meet them where they're at so we can have rapport and we can go on a journey of growth and exploration together, right. And so for me, it was about listening. It's what opened up everything and it's what still continues to open things up. So I started having intuitions about four and started having four intuitions about traveling through Central America, you know, and this was really after the, you know, the medicine ceremony with a friend, this was the next big thing. And they started coming in over a course of years and the four visions were start in Mexico and move south that something big will happen in Guada, Guatemala. I kept seeing different versions of my death in Panama. And then I had an intuition that I would come home early from this trip from my dad's funeral, even though he wasn't sick. There was nothing wrong with him at the time I was having these visions. And, you know, about 10 years ago, 11 years ago, it was finally time to go on this trip. So I started in Mexico, something big happened in Guatemala. And then I got an email when I was at a little place in Guatemala that my dad had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. So I did come home early from that trip for his funeral. And I got to spend six weeks with him before he passed. And just a lot of beautiful healing and connection for the family. But three of those four visions happened. You know, and so for me, it was just such a great confirmation that I don't know what's supposed to happen tomorrow. But I know I have the ability to listen and I've got support. Powerful. So when you say, OK, you you receive these visions. So how did you even know where to go in Mexico? How did you know where to start? Well, and I didn't, you know, sometimes I think we always think clarity is like this this exact destination or endpoint. And sometimes clarity is like just go west. Clarity is take a job at this company, but you don't know why. Clarity is things are good in this relationship, but not great. You need to leave, right? Sometimes clarity doesn't give you the destination. But for me, I was like, well, I'll fly into Cancun. I can easily go south into Belize and I'll be good. Well, the fact is I bought that flight and then maybe just a few weeks before I left, this person I had met in Peru reached out and she's like, hey, I'm going to be at this big event in Mexico. If you're going to be in Mexico, you should come check it out. And this is where it gets even more interesting. I'll have to tell a little bit more of a story to give context for this. So so she sends me a website for this event. As soon as I saw the website, I knew that I was supposed to be there. Now, how did I know? So probably eight months before I bought my trip to Mexico, I didn't even know I was going yet. I mean, these visions took a few years to come in, but I was at this shamanic art class. And so what that was is, you know, the woman, you know, did drumming for probably 20 minutes, you know, enough for us to enter an altered state. She was in an art studio. We came out of our visions and we painted whatever we saw. Now, most people were painting like splotches and colors and impressions. I had four very specific visions. And so I painted them, you know, there was a turtle. There was a pyramid on fire. There was a bird head on a staff held by a hand. And then there were these like five blotches with like little headdresses around this central blotch. And then I smeared all the energy together. I forgot about those. Like I looked at symbology of turtle and I tried to like figure out, you know, with symbology, does this mean anything to me in it? It really didn't. So it just ended up becoming a fun experience. Eight or nine months later, this woman sends this website for this event and there's a turtle on the website. And the turtle, I'm not a great artist, but the turtle looked close enough that I had that immediate like hair up on the back of the neck. I'm like, oh, I'm supposed to be at this event. So it was starting a few weeks after I was supposed to be in Cancun, but it was south of Mexico City. So I flew to Cancun because I already bought the ticket. I spent a week or two there. And then I flew from Cancun to Mexico City. I took, you know, a couple buses and a couple collectivos south of Mexico City to be at this event. And when I was there, those other three images from those paintings came true on the last night I was there. Right. And so from then on, I just was always following what's next. You know, I had my my lonely planet guidebook. So there were plate. There were, you know, Mayan temples I wanted to go see. There were places I wanted to snorkel in scuba, but mostly it was like, can I listen to the synchronicities? Can I listen to my intuition? Because that's where the magic will happen on a trip like that. And I really believe that's where the magic happens in business, relationship and health as well. Powerful. Wow. So now you're traveling and through these travels and frankly up until now, because I know you've done more since, are you merely drinking and forgive me for saying merely, you and I know that is not a mere anything, but are you drinking only the brew or the plant medicine? Or are you also studying with shamans? What is manifesting there? Yeah. So, you know, my history with that was I traveled to Peru a couple of times. I did, you know, drink and do, do ceremony down there with grandmother. And then to be honest, I took eight years off where I didn't do any, any of that. And I was studying with shaman that we're teaching, you know, how do you reach these altered states through meditation, through drumming, through, you know, just doing training because a lot of my shamanic work happens in a moment, right? Like somebody comes in and we've got an hour session and I may think it's NLP, but we need something else or it may start off as coaching, but we need something else. And so most of my training and most of how I live my life is just in developing that connection to intuition, intuition, divine, my heart, you know, however you want to describe it, the mystery, just in my day-to-day life. And then occasionally when I either feel like I need to accelerate into something positive or out of something painful, you know, I'll just get that little intuitive hit like, oh, it's time for ceremony again. And so then I'll dive into that. And it may be, it may be, like I said, I didn't do it for eight years. And then, you know, at this point, it may be every three to six months. What is your work with the shamans look like? What kind of exploration, if you're not drinking with them while you're studying with them, how does that look? How deep does that get? Yeah, I'd say I've been blessed to have studied with a number of different teachers on, you know, a number of different continents. And it always looks different. And a lot of times it's so simple that you would think nothing's happening. You know, and I think that's true for a lot of the greatest spiritual teaching, some of the most profound sentences on the planet were one sentence. You know, and it's taking us, you know, centuries to continue to unwrap them. And so, you know, with the primary teacher that I studied with in Seattle, the woman, and this is actually a fun story. Like I'm traveling through Central America. And this kid passes out in front of me. And I revive him and kind of a Western medicine, like let's support this guy. Let's help him come back to consciousness. And I had a little intuitive ping that, oh, this kid has experienced soul loss. And in the beginning, all my shamanic work was intuitive. And with this thing, I'm like, oh, I think I have an idea of how to do this, but this is a more serious ceremony. This is more a deeper level of healing. And I need to get some training for this. So I just told this kid, I'm like, hey, I'm like, this is, this is what I think you're experiencing. Just keep your eyes and ears open. And I'm sure the right healer is going to show up for you. You know, and a couple of weeks later, when I get an email from a friend, she's like, oh, my shamanic teacher is going to be down here. We're basically doing like doctors without borders, but it was, you know, shamanic work for like 10 days. And so I went and met up with my friend and I dropped her off at the hotel and this, this very kind, very high energy, vibrant. I mean, she'd fit in at any event you and I have been at together, Debbie, just like, you know, great rapport and eye contact and friendly. And she comes up and smiles and shakes my hand. And we only were connected for maybe 90 seconds. And in that 90 seconds, this is so nerdy, but for anybody that's familiar with the Lord of the Rings, when everybody ends up in the forest with the Elden Queen, she can hear all their thoughts. They can hear what she's saying to them and they all feel naked. Well, this is literally how I felt with this woman. I was like, oh my God, she knows more about me than I know about myself. And I was like, it's time for me to get a teacher so that if somebody has soul loss, if they have something more serious going on, I can go deeper into this work. And so for like 90 seconds, handshake, eye contact, very cordial woman. I stepped back out into the streets to continue a trip that I thought was going to last like six to 12 months. And I was like, oh, when I'm done here, I'll get some moving to Seattle to study with her. So that's how our relationship started. And I was just like, yeah, I'm going to listen. I'm going to do my job. And quick breakdown of what she did the first year, it was all about cleaning up our own stuff. You got to be a clean vessel. You got to get your issues out of the way. So you can be of service to another. Second year was really working more one-on-one. With smaller things. And then a third year. She kind of pulls all of it together. And you learn soul retrieval house blessings. You learn these, these bigger ceremonies. Baby blessings, marriage, funeral, you know, these, these bigger ceremonies. And what I love about that, you know, if you've seen Trotty kid, if any of the listeners have seen the Trotty kid, you know, he's got him out there, you know, doing the fence and scrubbing the cars and doing all this stuff. And the kid thinks he's not learning anything. And then, you know, Mr. Miyagi goes to start punching him. And he's got all these techniques. Well, what was brilliant at the end, the very last class I was in with her in that first three years, there's 30 soul retrievals happening. And I lift up my head to look because I'm incredibly curious. If you didn't know that everybody in the room was doing the same thing, you wouldn't know that everybody was doing the same thing. It looked so different. She taught in a way where everybody could lean into their personal, you know, gifts and talents. And all of the little pieces that third of adult learning, right? All these little pieces she had added in for two years. She pulled together at the end and it created this beautiful thing. And so that was one of the teachers I've been, been blessed to study with. Oh my goodness. Thank you. I think it's so cool that you can do soul retrievals and all those other components, very powerful. I have had the experience many times of a soul retrieval. And so that's one of the things that I think is the most important thing to do is without a doubt, a game changer, right? Someone can go in and take this. Separate event in your life. And we're basically just so in case people don't know. Essentially what happens is, let's say we experience a trauma, for example, at some point, any point in our life. And it's like a piece of us is hanging out somewhere. It's unresolved. It has not been healed. It has not been completed. Right. And it's frozen in time. And so the shaman. With their great vision can see that piece or pieces. And go ahead and do the complete healing and reintegrate that into us. And let me tell you, it may seem like an isolated event, but that one isolated event has tentacles everywhere. And what I know is that it, when I was healed, these different pieces, it healed multiple things in my life. But what I also want to say about that Morgan is that I have had the experience in ceremony. Where the divine, where grandma, there Aya has been so kind to me to show me something in my life that I considered as a memory to be pedestrian. Oh, you know, that happened. Maybe I told this story a few times or even to myself. And thought nothing of it. And then they would say, no, we want to show you what really happened and pull back the curtain. And allowed me to fall asleep. And to show you what really happened and pull back the curtain. And allowed me to fully express. Grief and emotions that at the time in my life, I was just way too young to express. And people may hear this and say, Oh, that must have been terrible. How could you revisit that? But the truth is that while it's going on, I'm highly conscious of the fact that this is probably the biggest gift in the world. This is a completion of something. And that the divine is gifting me with this reintegration. So I feel like even on ayahuasca, I have had soul retrieval. And if I can go a step further, after one of my soul retrievals on medicine, grandmother was amazing and said, let's do everything. And I was just really glad to be here because I'm a Christian. I'm going to classroom your entire childhood and upbringing. And let's just do it like that. And I was like, game on. I'm in bring it, whatever that takes. I just want to be here for this. Because that feels like such grace to me right now that you would trust me that I could handle that or agree with that. more whole, more functional, right? And so it is, it is a very great skill that you have that and can gift other people with that. Yeah, thank you. And that's one of the things I love about being on this path beside you is everybody has wounds. You know, my teacher would say we're all part of the SCAR clan. You know, we've all got these wounds and we're all doing the best we can through life. And a lot of times in partnership, we find that equal and opposite SCAR that kind of matches up with ours. We do our work together, you know, and, you know, and for anybody listening to this around sword trivial, like, it's so common that it's like you said, it's not something big, it could seem trivial. And we all we have languaging around it like Steve was never the same after the divorce, Mary was never the same after the loss of her job, or whatever, like we all have these these people that we know that have changed after something happened in their life. And, you know, where do we stop dancing? Where do we stop singing? Where do we enjoy storytelling? Where do we enjoy? Or where do we stop enjoying our being by ourselves in the silence? Right. And when we find those places, then we can start doing work to unravel it. And I got to say, I've had soul parts come back in a yoga class, you know, I've had progress on this by going on hikes and spending time in nature, you know, getting the earbuds out, going by myself and just spending time for, for life to process, you know, for things to move. And then there's great things like ceremonies that I think rapidly expand these processes working one on one with practitioners is incredibly powerful. And then we have all this work, just like, you know, if all you do is see your dentist twice a year, and you do nothing else, your mouth is still a hot mess, right? Well, it's the same with this as well. There's amazing things like practitioners and ceremonies to step into. And then there's all this work we can do to keep really cleansing and healing our soul in between these big milestone things that will will tell other journeyers, other travelers about this kind of a highlight. You know, it's so interesting. You don't, I don't think you're aware of it. This used to happen when I lived in West Hollywood. But it's happening to you right now that the light is changing in your room. So you have a lot of light on your face. Now, I know the lights changing right in the windows by you. But at the same time, it's pretty incredible. The moment you really started to deep dive into shamanism, all this light started coming on your face. And I just felt like it's no accident. It's very cool. Yeah, how fun. Yeah, this is a new, I'm back in Colorado and out of the clouds. And yeah, I'm in a new home office. And this is my first official interview in here. So getting to learn about the light. That's awesome, like literally and figuratively. And what is next for you on this path? Where do you feel like you were saying, okay, still a chiropractor, but a little bit going in the background, there's this other calling and it is unfolded, your three years are up with the shaman and you've moved, you've got this beautiful new relationship. There's a lot and amazing where you started the conversation. What began your spiritual journey was feeling so stuck in all these areas. And now here you are so openhearted and so on a path. What's next? What do you feel like you're being called to? What is your intuition telling you? Yeah, so there's a couple of things and I'm kind of in this push-pull in life right now where I'm excited to be doing a lot of speaking. I'm a certified high-performance coach in addition to doing all the shamanic ones. What does that mean? A certified high-performance coach. Yeah, so it's through Bren and Bechard. And so this is a guy that helps Oprah level people and he's done so much research. He's brought so much solid data into the areas of personal growth and how do we be happy, healthy and productive, not just over the short term but over the long term. And I really, I think he has a great heart for service. I love his message. I love how he shows up in the world. And I wanted a solid framework to really build some of my other things around. And so partially I do that and partially I do all the other more intuitive and spirit focused work. And so that's what I'm looking forward to building next. But before that happens, I mentioned that like 10, 11 years ago, I had those four visions about traveling to Central America. Three of them happened. Those deaf visions in Panama have been waiting for me. And so I've been waiting for years to go back on that trip. And I just haven't had the space and bandwidth to do it. And now literally in the next couple of weeks, I will be going back to Central America and going flying into Guatemala city where I flew back from when I got that message 10 years ago that my dad had been diagnosed with terminal cancer. I'll fly back to Guatemala and I'll keep moving down towards Panama. And it's interesting, those deaf visions have really transitioned from like physical deaf visions, which they were, into a knowingness about egoic death, shamanic death, like initiation, letting go of whatever parts of me are no longer serving with a very clear message that came through a few years ago that I'll step into South America, the man I need to be to do what I'm here to do. So that's been like, that's been a huge guidepost for me for, I had the last 12, 13 years probably. And I'm going to get the opportunity to go wrap that up and see what's waiting there for me. And then when I come home, I'm excited to dive into the rest of these service pieces and just be passionate, passionately doing what I love and supporting others and continuing on my own personal growth path. I love that for you and I completely intuited that. I don't feel like I'm losing you anytime soon, Morgan, but I felt very strongly when you said death, it's like, whoa, that is going to be awesome. It's a little bit scary, frankly, for me to hear because I understand also what that's like, something you've identified with for so long. And that was a part of yourself to go away. So it sounds dramatic. And also I know on the other side, phenomenal, I also feel very strongly hearing you say that this is going to completely inform the next part of your obvious personal life, but definitely career and what you're here to offer and be. And my question to you is, are you ever scared? Do you ever go into here is a vision? I'm called forward, you know, there's even the word death involved, whatever that may be. What does that mean to you as far as doubts or trepidation or concern, worry, fear? How does that play out at all? Yeah, it's interesting. I do a lot of, I have a lot of conversations about courage and both my speaking and my coaching because we all have too many times, some of the best stories, and this is probably true for you, some of the best interviews you've ever had. Somebody was living a life, they courageously left it to step into this next dream or passion or vision. And that's the magic that, you know, they've been able to experience and bring to the world. So honestly, I don't get a lot of fear about things I have to do. I kind of like jump off the cliff. I'm just like, yeah, I got this, I'm good. I mean, I remember I was driving myself to my first vision quest, and I'm like a few miles away from the space, and I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm not going to be eating for the next four days. I just, it's kind of like once I put it on a calendar, I'm like, yeah, is what it is, I'll take care of this. And so honestly, for me, fear and courage things aren't about stepping into something. The more difficult thing for me is holding things that I can't move forward, the things I can't take action on. You know, like when somebody's like, oh my gosh, you and I have to talk, but I can't call you till later this week. You know what I mean? There's that pause when there's nothing you can do about it. You don't know what it is. For me, things that I can't take action on, things that are on somebody else's timeline, whether it's spirit, the world, you know, a partner, a family member, a friend, holding space for things I can't just dynamically, actively move forward. That's my growth point. That's my struggle. But things like this, I just, I really believe that this is what I'm supposed to do. So there really isn't any fear around it, or just excitement. And the vision crest, when you say that, are we talking like Carlos Castaneda sitting on top of a mountain, no clothes, no food, waiting for your spirit animal or guide to come? What was that about? A little more tamed down than that version. But yeah, four days basically, no food, no water. The goal is really to stay up all night hoping for that vision. And then you can sleep during the day. You know, in the way we were taught, and I know everybody has different versions of this at this point, but that, you know, a kid that grew up in Wyoming doesn't have the body resources and the physical resources to do what they might have done for vision quest a couple hundred years ago, a few hundred years ago. And so for me, that form of just getting quiet, like no music, no notebook, no clock, no light, no way to take notes, just, it's just you in nature. And for four years, it was my best vacation, the biggest levels of epiphanies and breakthroughs. And yeah, and I think, you know, even for a lot of people that would think that that would be difficult, I still haven't done vipassana. I still haven't done a 10 day silent meditation. And to be honest, I think four days without food is probably going to be easier for me than 10 days without speaking. Definitely. You know, so we all have that growth edge. Yeah, being silent was really painful for me. I'm very young when I did it. I think I was in my early 20s. I hated it. I was like, Yeah, it was very difficult to not I'm such a connector. Yeah. And I like people so much and I derive, it gives me a very positive energy. You can imagine COVID's been really an interesting ride for someone like me who derives energy from connection in person. So yeah, silent retreat was difficult, but I haven't done it now for a couple of decades. So who knows? But I do think it's great to challenge ourselves with things we take for granted, we do every day, and to turn something off and go within. And that's what we have to rely on. It's pretty powerful. Yeah. So what do you think you really leaned into to get through COVID? Because the reality is a lot of people still, you know, I have neighbors that I'm still not seeing because they're they're still distancing. And I know a lot of people are still in, you know, this this very, very trying time. So what what things helped you kind of get get through it and stay vibrant and keep being able to show up on on video and audio like this to support others. Thank you. It's such a good question, Morgan. I feel like I ran the gamut. I didn't withhold, right? So in the beginning, I was totally in denial of everybody's nuts. This is going to pass. Like, really, this has never happened. I literally it's embarrassing. I made videos telling people, hang in there, you crazy. And then it's like, no, you're crazy. This is really going down. And a lot happened that brought me to my knees. I had a lot of loss in the beginning. I had a best friend who moved to New Zealand, best friend who moved to New Jersey, someone else who decided they didn't want to be in my life anymore, a temporary breakup with somebody who I'm back together with. It was like, it was a lot of gestalt. A mother with Alzheimer's. I was like, wow, universe. So I did the only thing I knew, which was feel, I just I cried a lot. And I'm not a big crier. I really cried a lot. I reached out out a lot. I used social media to connect as much as I could. And I surrendered, surrendered, surrendered because I was really clear on a spiritual level. If this is happening, and if it's all an illusion, why did I create this? Why did I lock myself inside? What is it I need to face? So I just was gestalt, like looking at stuff, taking the joys where I could, enjoying my days where I could, throwing myself, I started doing yoga every day, and a lot of spiritual practices. I was like, okay, you know, I've hold this amazing time to myself also. And yeah, and the exploration has taken me so many places. I've been graced to do medicine many times on my own, and in safe circles, and exploring all of that, going on camping trips, doing medicine. And so I've been awake and aware and open to all of it. And I feel like for me in the end, it's also been a lot of calling about be aware that these things you were confused about as far as shamanism go for me, that it's unfolding in a whole new direction with music and with workshops and retreats. And I'm just, you know, take me like wherever I'm supposed to be, because I feel there's joy there for me. And there's a rightness about being that and doing that. You understand? Yeah. Well, part of what I'm hearing is, is you just took the opportunities where you could. Right? Like it may not have looked like it would have in 2019, but you're like, oh, I can do these, these small things. I can connect to social media. I can, you know, you mentioned like staying active in the ways you could. And I imagined, you know, maybe walk through the neighborhood or whatever it is, like finding those ways to yeah, keep your vessel full, even if it wasn't what worked a year for. And what about you? What is a ritual or practice that you rely on every day that really shows up for you and centers you? Yeah. Well, the two that really got me through the pandemic, one was actually had an intuition in October the year before to move out of the city, which was weird because I lived like three minutes from my office. Like life was good. I loved it there. And I, I got the ping and I'm like, okay, I'm moving. So I, a week before the lockdown, I moved to about an hour south of Seattle near this little forest. And so pretty much every day I could, I would go spend an hour in that forest. You know, in the beginning, I was like, oh, I'm mountain biking and, you know, trail running and I'm just staying fit. And I'm like, what I need to do is be out here just enjoying the forest. So I spent a ton of hours in that forest by myself. So that was one thing. And then the other thing is my meditation teacher started offering meditation classes twice a day through zoom. And I missed the first couple of weeks because I was still really processing like, yeah, kind of the breakdown of everything happening. But once I stepped back into meditation, like all these breakthroughs were happening and it felt like the world was on pause and I could either address my areas of growth and deepening or I could ignore them. And what I felt like was everybody that was doing their work, it tended to go better. You know, and for people that were ignoring it or really fighting it, it was, you know, you're fighting against something so much bigger than you. It's like, you don't go to the beach and fight the waves, you surf them. Right. And so, yeah, I just, I really stepped into personal growth and, you know, I was living in a town where I basically knew no one. And so I, you know, I connected the ways that I could with zoom and phone and different video things. But mostly I was just being mindful and being with myself. That's so beautiful. You don't fight the waves, you surf them. And so here we are at the end, Morgan. What are you next year to dream? What are your future dreams and goals? For me, it's about being more authentic. You know, I find that when I just listen to my heart, when I listen to my passion, even if I don't know if anybody's ever done it before, even if I don't know if my peers or the people that might hire me are going to enjoy it, just following my heart tends to get me in good place. So I'm just looking forward to more of that in the next, you know, one, 10, 20 years. And is there anything you want to tell people here at the end? As I was talking today, there may have been something amazing that you're wanting to accelerate into or there might be that little pain point that you're wanting to accelerate away from. And if I were to ask you right now, and maybe you don't know the answer, but if you did know the answer, what's that one thing you could do to start moving things in a positive direction? Hopefully most people listening to this will get that answer and just figure out a way to make it happen, whether it's today or in the next couple of days, like start moving those things because people in positive momentum stay in positive momentum. And yeah, I think that's the key, listen and step. Thank you for coming on the show today. I have loved this conversation. It's been a joy. Yeah. Yeah. Always amazing. I mean, we've had plenty of these offline, so it's nice to be able to share this with your audience and hopefully get them, you know, one step closer to the dream they're living into as well. And if you'd like to learn more about him, go to Dr. Morgan, O-A-K-S, Oaks.com. And I end this show with this quote from Michael Harner. Shamanism is a path of knowledge, not of faith. And that knowledge cannot come from me or anyone else in this reality. To acquire that knowledge, including the knowledge of the reality of the spirits, it is necessary to step through the Shaman's doorway and acquire empirical evidence. Tune in next week. My guest is going to be Robert Miller. He is the bassist and composer for the band Project Grand Slam. His band is open for Edgar Winter, Blues Traveler, Boney James, Mindy Abair, Scott Whalen, and Yes. He also hosts the Follow Your Dreams podcast with huge celeb name guests, including someone when I was a child. I wrote a fan mail too, so I can't wait to catch up with this man. If you love this podcast and you'd like to see myself and the guest, go to YouTube and subscribe there. And it's youtube.com slash Debbie Daschinger. And remember, don't just dare to dream, dare to turn all your dreams into your reality. Thanks for joining us today.