 this is the moment we all take some rest we're gonna connect our in yourselves we get ready for the journey buckle up welcome everybody my name is stone I'm a startup entrepreneur I also have to be the chairman of the next 40 minutes I will try to take you through it's a bit of a rollercoaster ride because normally what I'm going to show you here is something that is in a day-long program for business professionals so it's highly shortened if it goes too fast pull my sleeve if you need more explanations interrupt me and otherwise I'm just gonna take you on the right enjoy your meals while I kick off first of all old way of developing products I think many of you and even some of the projects here have started that way there was an ID some intuition there's something to be done in your case there was a partner that had a business need or the societal needs and wanted you to develop something but in the market study said hey there really is a market for this idea they internally found the funding if you do a startup or any do-good initiative you will have to find some fun to keep it going very minimal just buying a domain name and some cheap hosting up to doing marketing and hiring people to do all that stuff then you develop the product in the platform you start doing marketing communications it's one of the good things I like about your teams you all have different skills on team or that's at least was the plan so you have some very technical people some more business related also marketing communication that's really important when you do a company but all that of course the money especially figured out in the plan then typically the first release you will try to get feedback is extremely important the early feedback of users I really hope that all of you have something to show whenever there's a visitor coming in here you already show them what you built and you get your first feedback I was here last Thursdays when the people from the blams over it were visiting they already gave valuable feedback on the first prototype that they saw so incorporate and then typically a next stage you try to get money from those users because you've created something of value or two parts and we will look at different type of revenue models together what's wrong with this go ahead it's all it's all yeah okay I sort of game that away it's all I mean I'm all yeah we can all change so that's all very relative now what's wrong with this is that you end up building useless products who recognizes this no hands which is normal because this problem was not a big success it's a necklace with a phone and a watch now I see puzzled faces and necklace with a watch mean if you wear your watch here it's pretty hard to see time and many things around yet a big company Nokia thought that was a good idea so it was like typically two-year plan we're gonna do a fancy necklace with different designs you can have the golden version the silver version and so on but it's set out for failure because it didn't speak to engines who wants to wear this turned out nobody and so that's what happened in the old days as long as you build something the higher the risk that you will fail first of all there's new new people building maybe something very similar and because you want to add extra feature and because you know you can deliver something even better you are you have this natural fear to get out but by not getting up with your project and not getting user feedback from the real end users you're actually raising the risk of your whole project and so in the least methodology we like to avoid the whole shit moment and we do this in small bits and this actually is what you're doing we have during four weeks we're developing a product is getting better every time but if you made a mistake you made an assumption and it didn't work because the user said I'm really not interested in in telling you the profile of what I expect from a train rides and you can't get it out of anybody then you should probably go back once I figure out how what are other ways we could collect this input by not asking for example that's just one example and so working in small iterations greatly reduces the potential success of your startup and project now is what developed mean by Steve blank and Brian Cooper this whole concept we do customer validation that's really critical to the lean start methodology you get out of the building and you speak to who has gone out of the building over the past two and a half weeks way too little people went out so you are in a great location you are on top of the Brussels central station you have literally 10,000 of people in holiday modes traveling underneath us here so all you need to do is get down get a coffee downstairs and try to catch some people at a quiet moment ask them simple question that could help your project to know is there a real interest that's part of this make sure you find that product market fit very early on afterwards you can figure out what the business model will be and how you will market it's extremely important to get out early and get this so really please after lunch and the next few days start getting out not all of you have to do it you can split up and it's a very uncomfortable thing it's one of the hardest thing to do as an entrepreneur because you fall in love with your solution by now almost all of you have fallen in love with the solution but some of you have forgotten what the problem is that you're trying to solve and you should actually fall in love with it with the problem and then you will find a solution so that's a way of putting now to overcome that fact that we built huge projects that and nowhere you can do prototyping in one of the concept that is emerges the minimal viable part so many of you have heard about and that we're urging you it can start with something very basic just a big prototype this was a survey that wanted to check if you have 10 second intros to discover new music would you like that sort of service you think this was a good thing a product you think it might have could have probably incorporated in other products you know this one didn't fly high stop but at least it tested it and you look how do people interact if I give them this piece of paper and I tell them what music you're going to listen to we just push the play button like anybody would and then you have a phone on the background you just put on to give them a headset and you put on the music you don't need to build anything for that so that's a middle of I a product your testing is anybody interested in this and then you have to figure out can you build it into a viable a product that brings value and that people will be willing to pay for a famous example is Zappos who has heard about Zappos not many people hear some of you do so it was bought by Amazon it's actually the biggest shoe retailer online in the US and the founder of that company besides being extremely focused on customer service very early on when I wasn't that fashionable yet online to build that business in the old days he would have gone out by shoes inventory building e-commerce website find the vendor find developers do all that do marketing it is logistics up and running then do the marketing campaign to get customers to find out that a lot of people send their shoes back what do you do instead he just took pictures in the shops around his home where the city where he was living and he would put them on a simple website and if you like him you could email him and he would go out to that shop buy those shoes in your size ship them to you and get feedback gets shoes send back try to send them back to the store which would accept them but he would get a percentage how happy are people and validate do people buy shoes online which a decade ago was a weird idea that you couldn't try it turns out that people buy who's bought shoes online so about half the room here has bought shoes online so interesting concept of an MVP so they want to buy it you can test this and you can also test the price sensitivity how much do you add you take your most popular pair of shoes you double the price you see how many of them do you sell if you keep selling them you have a nice margin if you see if you can't sell them at the retail price you'll need to find huge volumes to get a to buy them at the lower price and the retail stores can it's all about iterations so the build measure learn cycle is one way to look at you build something in the first week you've tested it and you measured how users went with that role how many for the ones that are scraping the open parkings and the parking usage in Belgium and the Flanders you can measure what can we take in is it once a second or one a minute that we need to check this and then you learn from that how often are you down how many people come to our website stuff like that another approach for that is the other way around this is already by doing this you can find out when you do the learn part that you did something wrong I will show you a famous example who knows this website nobody does it's perfectly normal first of all you're way too young to know this secondly it was a dating website which introduced a little feature which was video we find it very normal now I see three cameras pointing at me here we find it very normal to stream video and to record videos back then it was not you can see by the type of the page it was quite a while ago this became YouTube this was a company with a dating website and added a feature video and it found out that the video feature was extremely popular and used by people for many other things and just for themselves and so they turned that dating company into a web streaming world like that wasn't streaming as a web hosting and video uploading user generated content so that's the genesis of YouTube was something completely different and there are many companies that started out by doing great MVPs and we all know Tesla now they didn't go out and build a factory to buy chassis of cars they just went to a Lotus car which was available and they fitted batteries in it and it's they checked two people by a battery powered car with a low-bridge and then involved into a real product and then it involved into a product with all sorts of and next services the supercharger network which overcomes your long the short range of your battery you can overcome that by building a super charger network or you can build home batteries so if you have a solar panels you can store that energy in excess of what you're using your car so that's an example of a company really innovating a lot this is a famous quote of course failure is an option here if things are not failing you're not innovating fast enough and hard enough it's a it's a bit of a cliche but many of you will maybe feel that way now and this is really not nothing to be ashamed you've built stuff you've learned stuff and the next version will be better than the current one so that's really one of the hard part is to get out of your comfort zone we all want to stay sitting around the table developing stuff imagining all sorts of interesting marketing campaigns graphics and so on but the real thing is to get out of your own comfort zone and learn new things for example by going to talk to those customers so when you do a customer interview and I will really this is like full day if you want to get people to do good interviews so this is something I'm gonna do in one minute but know who to talk to for the ones doing public transport solutions you are in the central station on a hub of a train and a metro you can do a lot of things just here so go out talk to people ask questions it feels very unnatural the first day first time is like I'm a little bit harassing somebody who isn't waiting for me to stop them and ask questions but it's extremely useful for your focus on the riskiest assumption for any of your projects like why will it not be used or why would be what are the other ways people do the number of startups that come to me and say we found people they do this in excel every month they found a way to overcome the business problem by doing it so it is not automatically because you can do it in excel you could build a beautiful web platform to do the same thing that they will move to your solution so these are often false promises like you say okay a lot of people we saw are doing this this very tedious task every month in excel it's not the reason that they will come to Europe so just make sure that is your assumption you have to test find somebody who's doing it today in excel what does it take them to do it in your platform and if it takes one hour or one day to upload the data in your platform it takes 10 minutes in excel it's a huge hurdle to move to your platform and this is often overlooked when you do have the interviews document them because you want to measure and learn a debrief within your team because you will find out that many of you have the same thing one of the typical hard start is when you want to do such an interview is how do you present yourself so I can say hi I'm told I'm trying to understand my customers market and you seem to be a public transport user so have you ever experienced the fact that your train was full was dirty was late never happens but some people apparently have this experience can you tell me the last time this happened this is very important if you ask if I would ask all of you how many movies do you want to see the rest of the year I'm gonna ask in a movie theater you're gonna give me a number which is an aspiring number I really would like to go twice a month so I'm gonna say 24 a year half year is gone and so on if I ask you how many movies that you see the last month or the last six months it's a much more trustworthy number because it's about what you really did and not what you aspire or think you ask questions try to ask questions about the past not about what they might be doing in the future what you think use the topic man especially if you're alone in the interview I urge you to go with two persons one person who asked the questions and one person who takes the notes if you're alone it helps to have like the five topics you want to ask was it and let's go back to the trains was it on time what do I find important does it clean do I want to have a lot of step overs or not directly you put your subject and when you go over the interview you know I've already treated this and that but that way it is not a list where you have to ask the person the other side could you answer question one two three you can do it in a more organic way and please behave like a child why why why why at the third why you start getting good answers at the fifth why you're probably gonna gonna discover news things that you haven't imagined so this is really something we forget we be learned not to ask it anymore when we grow up it is very useful for when you do an interview why do you do it this way and if you do that way why do you that way and if you did it why have you always done it that way and what are the other ways you could be doing this and that helps you to further elaborate on your project now this is the part where it has really worn this is not something you're going to read it's an old-school business plan written to explain how a certain start was a couple wise tapping the wisdom of the best experts and the wisest couples doesn't it's not important what this was about it's what is important here that you don't want to read this it's too much text and all of you are in a project within a week and a half you're gonna be pitching this to other people and they want to understand that you that you understand first of all your project yourself that you can explain what it brings to them but also how it's going to be viable how it will continue after this this experience of open summer of code is over and so one of the things to do that used to be a business plan you would write a business plan right who has had business plans in their curriculum the school university a few hands I've been writing a lot of business plan a lot I have always managed to get the costs about right but the revenues were always far below that this is it's very easy to make a nice spreadsheet and you grow X percent per month and it like goes through the roof and you try to get the hockey stick in there and so on while my startup is gonna go really through the roof and we're gonna make a lot of money but it's very hard to get there and so when you do a business plan you make a lot of assumptions but they're all really rough assumptions your guess is often as good as mine and so to overcome the problem of business plans that nobody reads the business model canvas was and this is model generation as a concept was was introduced by Alex this is like a new way of defining your project and your plan this is something I'm gonna try and we'll see what trees for this afternoon and we'll get you printed copies because I think it's really useful for each of the teams by next week to have these have run through this with your team to see how can your project be viable and if you look at the business model canvas it starts on the right again in Dutch we say it's a cap stock it's just a framework it is something to structure your thoughts on your project it is not your Bible is not something to be taken literally it's something to discuss around but it helps you to very quickly convey your project to other people and so it starts with the customers or the users you really from right to left in you have a certain value proposition and each of you is building something that is going to bring value to somebody somewhere so you define your value proposition you try to figure out who are the customers I use is for you you will relate with them in a certain way and you will deliver you a solution that can be an API can be a website could be emails could be very practical things you do for them I'm thinking about the dementia project can be an approach to different ways counseling coaching stuff like that that's one side so value proposition customer users how you interact with the other side is like how will you get there what do you need to do to make that for example you need to build a website well that's an activity what is the resource you need you'll need some hosting you'll need developers many of them in the room but know how to get that website partners if you're going to do stuff with trains it's maybe useful to have the train company on board or the subway company on board for public transport as a key partner they might help you reach out to the right users to get on board if you do parking tracking you might want to have the GPS companies on boards so that you can say hey I have real time parking availability in cities now maybe it's useful to reduce the people driving around and polluting for nothing that we indicate them to the nearest partners available and even show them the price of that so that's the top part then on the left here is a cost what are the costs you need to pay for those resources and potentially maybe even for some of those partnerships and secondly what is the revenue model they're very interesting revenue models even in open source even if you think about Wikipedia they ask for contributions which is not a license fee which is not just like a donation so there's a revenue model of users that once a year get this nice little pop-up asking like hey please chip in you've been using us a lot over the last 11 months this is the one that we ask you to help us fund to actually cover the cost of running I said earlier the relationship part which was on top can be a lot of things it's often one of the hard ones to fill in so it can be personal assistance it can be dedicated person can be a self-service model where you just say you have to come to my side and you will have to find out like it's an on-demand platform can be automating services can be community or even something that you co-create with others so there's many options in the relationship between your value proposition and your customers and secondly there's a revenue part again here I many of you have to be a little bit creative because you are not selling the typical commercial solutions you're using open data open source you're trying to make a societal impact and so you might have to look at can we find a usage fee for people that really like our solution or can we do something premium for example in two of my startups that use open data the search engine is free everybody can use it but one as a professional you start using it every day we have advanced features for which we make you pay so you sort of marry the fact that you put in a lot of effort in consolidating sources and offering a solution but you get paid by the premium users that have that make money with your tool because they do something more efficient than they would use the occasional user can still get everything for free subscription fees you could lend rent leases there's a licensing part maybe that you can do a wide-label version of your tool for the ones doing the the parking and you say it's gonna be free in Flanders in Belgium Brussels but if Berlin wants to have the same thing we can license our platform to you and we will use that money to pay for a DevOps all year long to maintain the platform and do like small incremental feature improvements on the platform that's another way you can have brokerage fees if you would be selling train tickets you could get a commission on that you broke our tickets and so you could with that commission you could fuel your the cost of your platform and then back in the day advertising used to be in almost all the business plans and all the revenue models of startups it becomes very hard to make money with advertising so the cost per thousand impressions has gone really down if you want to make money in advertising needs to be extremely segmented and then you get into privacy issues because you the counterparty will want to know a lot about the people you're gonna show the actor with whom you will look them up so this is something to take you to mine asset this is a very short condensed session you could talk about a lot more things it's wrong but this is the business model campus I have a secret theory that this was actually developed for 3M who does those post-its because literally millions of post-its are being sold all over the world to hang on the business model canvas it's something that's alive so you have an assumption maybe your team somebody says oh these are we have like three customer segments you can use a different color so imagine that you say we have three users and we have being partners and we consider both of them customers although there's a strict definition of the customer typically is a lot of base but then what you will do is that you can use the same color for example I take a yellow post it for the free me and users and the value proposition is they can do basic search then I can do one for the professional users and I can say they have advanced filters and that way when you read the plan you can simply see how the value proposition is different for certain type of customer segments same with the partners maybe you need a different partner for the free users for the professional users so that's that's one way to to further fill in now we will quickly go to one example to make it a little bit more lively this one has flipped as said again it's only a framework they flipped left to right so the customers are on the left it's somebody who found customers very important so some of them around so this is a service by just looking at this you don't need to read to 50 pages you will discover that this is about a reading spot the idea behind this project was busy frequent travelers who want a quiet moment and especially busy parents who like reading and travel with their children now when I see this first of all I see a huge problem because those are very different markets business travelers typically don't travel with their children and they don't have the time to mix the two you're not tight schedule but this was a proposition so any any idea is good and should be tested so let's give it the benefit of the doubts so what were they going to do they were going to find a location in an airport where you would have books and where you could read in silence to your child while you're waiting for it nice idea so there what is a relationship they have with those customers it's personal assistance you somebody would say you co-create because people are reading and then you're also co-creating with other partners the channel is very indirect you have lounges so you have a you need to find the airport lounges where you can set this up you could hook up with libraries who might want to exchange books or want to further expand their services into frequent travelers you could make a nice I would say partnership with Amazon and others to like have the book in the library but if you want to continue if you can order it so at your holiday location is already there by the time you arrive at the hotel or the Airbnb and you could have all sorts of data services and again privacy wise for child with doing those but knowing who reads which books to the children you might want to have are they are they into like grim stories by the brothers grim or are they reading like more graphic type of so that's the what are the key activities they need to do well they will of course need to have this space in the airports that needs to be comfortable they need to be able to customize it people need to speak to socialize it with each other and maybe with other parents and the resources they need is that they need to get books you need to get curators at the side which book would be very good to read in an airport maybe a very short one if you have half an hour an hour they would need appropriate furniture and they would have people that are there to help you in case we're around so quite a if I see this quite an expensive thing to set up and the partners for them would be all those frequent flyer programs but then also coffee providers maybe and the local libraries we already mentioned in the channels and the auxiliary service providers that offer all sorts of extra things around because they're clearly linked to resources the revenues they had in mind we're doing upset and complimentary it's not it's already far fetched and you're giving somebody a nice experience I need to buy stuff to talk about advertising they were hoping for authors and speakers to show up again when I see this you can pinch a lot of holes in those assumptions and so you would if this would be your company you would have to go out and see with the with the alter would you be interested to come to this airport and there might be people showing up with children and they might be interested in the type of books you create seems like a far fetched assumption to me but who knows maybe you find so they would have a third membership fees you can be club member pre-name member VIP member I'm not sure if you want to do the family thing that's a good idea to start this instantiating between those classes in there but then again who knows maybe I mean something you think this happened no no not many enthusiasm in the room on the other hand I didn't time it but I think that within less than five minutes I managed to run the whole idea which is not mine which I just imagined by by looking at each of you can do the same thing with your projects and then when you have visitors coming over or project partners they will ask you questions like yeah but what complementary goods do you what do you mean by that or how much do you think you can how many revenues would you would you actually get from that or yeah but those curators will you find them or what do you need to do do you only need one or the one for every language and stuff like that so again this is a framework it helps you to discuss and it's something else alive so you imagine sky team and star lines as partners maybe you've come back it's sky team and they will tell you we're working on something very similar internally no thank you we can't share any information that means you can take them from your list you can also take it as a validation wow they're working on something very similar my idea must be really worth something if other people are trying to endeavor the same crazy idea than the one I'm trying to realize so that's typically what you can do with the business model can I give you a second one because that's what they usually look like you're not that well drawn up here we have an old one for Twitter so they have users they have companies and they have developers this is a word of warning when you build apis and third of close silos and Twitter is a close proprietary silo in the early days of Twitter I knew lots of developers who built tools on top of Twitter and Twitter was very happy about it because they developed through that ID community at first and so developers will make useful tools on top of it but then at some point and the same has happened to LinkedIn the same as happened to Facebook the silo when they see that others make revenues on core features they will say oh the archive feature I don't like others to do that it's our silo we're gonna pull that out we don't allow you to do that oh you're selling our data through your API I know we don't want that we make an exclusive partnership with these two APIs anybody who wants to like suck up the full Twitter feed you need to pay those those I would say partners that do the API so word of warning if you built on top of a closed system that is commercially driven if you are very successful your exit is only that platform or they shut you down and build themselves that's a bad position literally known teams of developers that shut down their company because they weren't aware enough of this this weakness in their in their business model that they depend so much on the platform that you just pull the plug on their assets and again which channels do they use website apps mobile in the early days a lot of SMS and then the API what was the value proposition you can discuss this you can stay connected with your friends like any social media you could follow news and events especially as soon as the hashtag immerse then you could easily follow that sort of thing you could you will see by sponsors you could do very targeted marketing by finding out who tweets about what marketers can find out what you like and so they can segment you and the Twitter platform can pull up those ads that are relevant to you and then they had Twitter apps third parties building all sorts of stuff their activity was platform development in the early days there was this fail wheel that came up platform was growing so fast that often they went down to capacity issues and so they needed to put in a lot of human developers and DevOps and infrastructure investments to make sure that they stay up at all times they had some partners that will go very quickly over this one construction mainly employees and service and the revenues streams there were many of them going from promoted accounts you can promote to get more followers promoted tweets selling off detailed analytics either to the companies or third parties the license in your data streams is a really big one if you look at customer service many people want to reach out to a company they will not go to find email they will just shout online and put the Twitter handle of a brand in there and then they expect the brand to react and there's lots of apps that were built on top of those three to make sure if somebody shouts out if you take the NMBS essence they actually if you shout them they were like they have a whole team of people that will react to you and he will say I'm very sorry your training is late let's see if we can suggest you an alternative or anybody ever use that feature yeah you did one two three four five six people so they are reactive but this is this also shows a very weird situation you know people at the commercial air company they tell you that the frequent fliers they want to redeem points and get extra they need to call a VIP call center they say hi I'm a this diamond ambassador level lifetime I would like a free upgrade or I would like a connection in flight in London and you would have to say enter the code the old application I'm very sorry we can't do that you don't qualify you need another million miles to qualify for that goodbye and then you have the backpacker who has a nice Instagram account and that person treat like oh this sucks I'm stuck in Brussels and I really wanted to go to London and then the social media team picks up there this person has a hundred thousand followers we're gonna give a free ticket and they send somebody over with a glass of champagne and this person says I'm so happy Brussels air that just upgraded me to first class to fly to London and so you have this super service to social media because it depends straight from the CEO he says like this is like a corporate very important for our image and then on the other side you have the classic old way where they've set up call centers for frequent fliers who actually get less service and the ones shouting with the with the big megaphone so the ones of you with a great following you can actually trade in extra service as that it is only a scheme to structure your thoughts and so there are alternative versions the lean count as much Murray who is actually focusing more on the product and so the left side of his team is product and the right side is focused on the market and so there's a lot about the problem solution and the metrics that's very close to the MVP we're talking about you're gonna have to describe the problem you're solving the solution you're solving it with and then the metrics of how you will actually measure both your critical assumptions and your success afterwards to see what is the interaction I will I will I will not dive further in that I further into this one so as said this was a very short introduction to the lean strategy which is all about doing using the least efforts possible to get the greatest of the farthest you can and so by finding the risk is assumption in your project and to mimic that to find what can I do not to build my whole platform for a month but to test in the first week would this work this fly would people use this second part this is model canvas one page use post it's you put those different elements on there you discuss about them and your project so this is officially something we want in deliverable by next Thursday right yeah lots of enthusiasm here I can see that I ran you all through so fast that we have five minutes left for Q&A so first of all thank you for your attention second go ahead shoot any any question go ahead it's extremely hard I think you're all very fortunate because first of all you haven't been mistrained yet you're all young starting out so please do not go the old way so that's one thing secondly it's very hard for companies to change because the reason they structure that way does often they operate in a certain way they have a certain process that was come to a certain maturity and everybody is training that process and of course once you have a once you once you're no longer a star that means you found your business model you found your product market you know how to operate how to reach new users how to keep them happy you no longer need all of this very short stuff because you're doing something for the long term and you should be very conscious about the fact that many companies they should not try to do this in their massive scale of operations they should do it for smaller project and to small iterations of a partner if I take the train company if every train conductor would start in the morning say I wake up I'm doing my business model cannabis today and I'm gonna try a different value proposition I'm no longer going to take people I'm gonna take animals I'm gonna stop in the middle of a field open my doors and see if they come in of course I wouldn't work so that's you at some point you need to decide what you want to innovate and how how you did and so for large companies it's very hard to do that because the operating never often have a cash cow to the cow that didn't want on board on the train but they do have cash cows and they typically run in a process and when you do something new you don't have a process so you want to avoid all the overhead of our process but you do want to validate if we build this particular solution do we have enough of interest of traction of people willing to to pay for it or another value to build and so the hard part is to get people out of that meant mindset of the process and to get them in the mindset out of the cooperative nothing is cast in stone and today each of you can stop your project the way you're doing it and make a pivot to something else from the dating website we sound to YouTube from using an existing car fitting of the batteries to a full-blown car model so it's very hard for companies to innovate because they typically have this current focus and the innovation often comes from outside that's often referred to as creative structure so it's very hard from so one of the one of the things companies do they do bootcamps they do all sorts of I would say interactive formulas where they take teams the mixed teams internally externally or they ask companies like the one I use these slides from the studio to help them to have a hackathon you're in you're actually in a four-week program where every week you have an iteration you have coaches that help you on the different problems you're encountering and so that's one of the ways companies try to innovate is by taking it out of the core process doing something on the site and if it gets good enough they hope that they can either hook it up as a wagon on the on the main locomotive or the other way around that their existing business will fade but this new business is already in place to take over but it's a it's a hard juggle for companies to combine the existing business and to innovate on the site and it's something that needs to be really in the company they need to do it you want to do it from the inside but it often also asks the different minds of the people working there and doing that because they were not hired to be creative innovative to disrupt the company we're hired to operate and excel in delivery extremely good customer service or by computing data in a very efficient way does that answer your question more questions practical questions otherwise I'm gonna ask questions that was what was the hardest thing you had to solve today nobody did anything hard that was so easy very quiet you had the hard thing to solve these three things you saw something very hard and safety you mean application safety or the end-user safety so it was physical safety of the test device and what was the solution you found so you found the solution you let the user on mobile phone so that's one less trouble to and it's interesting what you say you're going out and end users will test this is another thing that a startup entrepreneur doesn't want to do you typically you know you can build a better version so you don't want to get out too early but ideas are cheap and often it's not the idea that all of you have on board on a project of around a certain idea but you have developed it and you will continue to develop it over the next few days and so the fact that you're gonna get users to install your app to test it to me is already a great success because it means you're gonna get this very valuable customer feedback that's at least I hope that's what you're gonna do right you're gonna observe what they do or you're gonna measure what so you're gonna do customer interviews who else is at the stage of doing customer interviews after everything you heard I should see all the hands go they're not telling you so we're gonna give you some enthusiasm so focus group very good to you okay okay and what what were they using today that could be a replacement for what you do so people use search APDF forms that sounds like an easy one to overcome but I don't know everybody knows what else what else did you did you learn by the focus group we'll keep that as a last word of advice but it applies to all the teams and they got very good feedback they built something I know a little bit about the project as a V batch project and so they want people to create their skill badges and they want to have beautiful skin batches so they have a template engine on which you can add your own stuff and then build your batch and then upload it to a database others can reuse it so if you do this task only once and you need to read a manual and watch five instruction videos and look at the tooltips all the time that you're trying to figure out you're probably not going to succeed because after two minutes people will already skip to do another task and so I think it's very important that's what I understand you keep the simple interface we're in an intuitive way people will start using that's that's actually when you have a what when you're going to measure this afternoon how people interact if you don't need to explain anything and they use it you've hit call that we say because it means you don't need a manual if you need a manual a lot of explanations where you see everybody doing your own thing to you that means that the natural thing is to go to the to the certain button that you only want to be used for advanced configuration settings and they all start by using that button means that in your user interface you will need to change something to adapt to the behavior of the you so with that I would like to thank you all for your attention and especially I wish you all a lot of luck and I would say a lot of successes by doing those custom interviews to further improve your projects and I look forward to the end result next Thursday so all the best to you and thanks a lot and I'm staying around a little bit so if you have more questions that you didn't ask in public feel free to come to me