 This is a very novel idea that all the participants are also asked to present the way of teaching of this course in a workshop like this. In fact, we are in a phase of changing the syllabus in the coming board of studies of our department. So, I will be presenting whatever we have teaching since last 3 years to our students. 3 years ago, we used to teach computer programming course using FORTRAN. So, as I said FORTRAN had almost become obsolete and people wanted change. So, that time we decided that why not directly change the programming course in which the students learn programming through Java. Now, that time the idea was because all the classes that the students would write would basically be containing some procedures. So, students would understand procedures as well as object orientation. Since this course is offered to students of all the branches, may it be computer, may it be civil, may it be electrical or mechanical. So, the course was designed like this. The syllabus is displayed here and the books that were recommended were fundamental books may be by one of the good books on this is by Gradibooch, which tells about good object oriented programming concepts. So, this is the syllabus that we are currently following and the feedback that we got in these 3 years is that the students belonging to other branches are not able to grasp the programming concepts well because they are all the time getting confused between object orientation and procedural paradigm. So, now we are in a phase of again coming back to the procedural paradigm of programming. So, we are thinking that we will again make this basic course of computer programming that in which the students will learn programming through C. In our teaching schedule we usually have 4 hours of theory classes per week and for each batch we have 2 hours for lab. One tutorial is kept sometimes when students demand for that. So, it is not because it is not included in the scheme that is why I have not mentioned it here but 4 hours per week theory lectures and 2 hours of lab per batch is for sure. The batch size is 30 students per batch and in our labs also we have 30 systems for students. So, one student per machine. For evaluation we keep 2 in semester test. Usually the semester is of 14 weeks duration. So, after first 4 weeks we keep first test, after next 4 weeks we keep another test and then we have a small quiz before end and then we have a final examination. In labs the lab instructors along with the teachers continuously evaluate the programs which are written by the students. These programs correspond to the lab assignments that are given to them. At the end they conduct some Vyavavusi exam and this Vyavavusi is generally one during the semester and one at the end of the semester and the marking is done after considering performance of the students in these all these. These are some sample assignments that I got. Some are very primitive kind of programs, some are bit better. And when Java has been rather a programming language of use in lab for last 3 years. So, there are some questions like this also in which we give some kind of scenario and ask the students to identify various classes and objects so that the teacher is able to ensure whether the student is understanding the problem or not for solving. So, these are some sample questions. Lab resources as I mentioned we have more machines in lab than there are students per batch. We have Linux operating system, Java 1.5. In one lab we have diskless machines in which students work. We have two servers, Windows servers is used by some other students. We have certain license software also, but they are not required in these computer programming course. As I said that they I have also tried to include some financial aspects, though they are just I think indicative kind of and these are not the final figures for the course that we will be conducting in July. The TA2 experts as was mentioned in the ISTE guideline for two weeks was only 42,000, but I think that is probably by mistake because it was given for first, for one week, two week, three week and four week courses it was all same for all years. So, for two weeks I think it will be more and for these days I think giving honorarium only for 250 rupees per week, per R2 an expert will be very little, so I calculated the figure by just making this amount double that is 500 rupees per R so that it looks a bit respectable. For local experts also the remuneration would be 400 rupees per R and for lab it will be again double of what was mentioned that is 200 rupees per R per person in the lab honorarium to course coordinator I do not know it can it is okay ancillary staff also will demand more money as we discussed earlier publications okay contingency probably will require more money. So, my guess is that it will come around a figure which is rupees 2 lakhs so I think 2 lakh rupees should be okay to run a course of two weeks if we do not include participants from outside our city so that we are not required to give them any kind of TA, DA etc. We will just offer them lunch and tea twice a day. It is not just lodging but boarding charges. It is only boarding charges, no it is lodging charges, it is not boarding because there will not they will just be there it is boarding charges, so in coming next week we have a board of studies meeting and we are planning to change our syllabus such that the computer programming will not be taught through object oriented paradigm but through procedural paradigm and we want to revert back to see looking to the results that the students are giving to us even our training and placement officer has given this feedback to us that you please change your syllabus of computer programming because students are not understanding programming well and they are not performing well in interviews. I am tempted to comment at this stage itself because computer programming has been a subject very close to my heart that was the first time I thought that subject was in 1972 and like she said we were also using photon programming as the programming language to be used. Object oriented programming per se is not necessarily wrong. The point is at which point in time in the course do you introduce the notion of object oriented programming because whether you want to teach object oriented programming or even functional programming the fundamental program is seen as procedural concept being very well known and doubt. Normally most of us have learned object oriented programming or functional programming subsequent to having mastered procedural program whether procedural programming is a must as a fundamental background is a debatable question for example those who insist that procedural programming must be taught you take the same logic backwards in the early days when the compilers were just coming in programming in machine language was considered most important understanding of the computer architecture hardware, air you the execution sequence of instructions, program counters these were considered absolutely fundamental to any programming effort. They were necessarily taught as a initial part of any programming course you go back to 70s no I don't think you were teaching program in 1971 so you won't know. But my teachers who have been your students have passed on that kind of sanskars to us so we also. That's a dilemma that we have because we don't necessarily quickly shift our mind to new environment. But today it is very well acknowledged that teaching hardware concepts to students of a course who are primarily going to learn higher level language a programming language is positively detrimental to the understanding proper understanding of the programming concepts at the higher level. So there these are these are some of the things that we have to keep in mind but anyway it was a good can you just go back to. Basically what she is including from the world class points of view she believes that 178,000 rupees should be good enough to conduct a program provided you don't have to arrange for accommodation stay and dinner breakfast etc for the participants. If the participants are in the same city can you tell me if you have to accommodate such students and extra cost let's say at your place like in though what could be such to become cost per day for if you have to arrange them in your hostel or guest house or something and what is the food being per day etc. So what would be the approximate cost per participant? In our guest house I think it should be 600 rupees a day that's what I think. They will have to find out the exact figure. So 600 rupees a day for stay and food so if you multiply that by 15 you are talking about 9,000 rupees for two weeks are you sure it's 600 rupees because even in IIT it is not 600 rupees. So Indore is costlier than Mumbai I am happy to note but are you do not. Okay so that is something that you should find out I will request all participants to go back and find that out because as we said last time we will probably figure out a way by which the participating teachers or their institutions should be willing to pay if the remote centre is not in their own town then they should be able to pay this as a sponsorship charges to the institution which is conducting this program and we would like it to pay it at a realistic level. Sir I also want to share one thing this is regarding the kind of teachers we have in our colleges the regular teachers the number of regular teachers who have some amount of experience are reducing in number and new teachers with very less experience and from colleges where there were no teachers for them also is increasing. Sir this looks to be that there is some teacher who traditional teacher some degree actually the person who is coordinating this course of computer programming in first year actually this is not working. He is coordinating this subject of computer programming and he is going to IIT Delhi for PHD in software engineering so he is more inclined towards software engineering rather than computer programming so that is why this kind of bias. Did I share with you the famous Bhagwat law which is very well known in IIT? Did I mention it in any of the classes? Professor Bhagwat was head of the electrical engineering department and there was a huge debate on the syllabus and the nomenclature of the subject and so on in one of the faculty meetings. My guide Professor Kekare was a teacher then I was still in textual so he is a second hand information. So no no this happened later when I was a teacher in the computer centre in one of the faculty meetings Professor Bhagwat observed that it does not matter what syllabus you define or what name you give to the topic because a teacher ultimately teaches what he knows. So in fact Kekare objected strongly and he said sir how can you say that? So Professor Bhagwat asked Kekare do you mean to say you teach what you don't know? That was hard so this is the Bhagwat law and there is a Kekare corollary which says that a conscious teacher learns the new subject and syllabus and then teaches it because nobody can teach without knowing it. So this is one example. Okay fine. Just go to the previous slide where you are showing some sample questions. So these assignments are actually lab assignments is it? Yes. Okay. What I wanted to also know is from your experience by just quantitative measure what is the total number of programs that students actually write and what is the size of the largest program in terms of simply yellow lines of code? Approximately I mean. Okay. And I do 70 lines of code. Okay. That is one bother I have that every student doing this course to a through a we have the notion of a course project by the way that project is given to the students somewhere around middle of the semester after doing some assignments and they will have to develop that entire code on their own. It is not uncommon to find that students here write anywhere between 250 lines to 1000 lines of code as a part of that course and that is where the maximum learning actually happens because if we are teaching programming then number of programs written I would be concerned if the number of programs is being maximized rather than the quality of programming and the should I say complexity of programming but anyway that is the practice that you have. How do they end up writing 50 to 60 program because that is in the labs there are various find out the maximum of three numbers. Correct, correct, correct. The second question I have is that how what are the marks allocation suppose there are 100 or 200 marks for the totality how are the marks allocated to different parts of the evaluation? And for completion of every lab assignment certain marks are awarded for example since the preliminary questions are given in lab assignment one there is one mark per question if there are 10 number of questions and like that. But total evaluation of lab amounts to what percentage of marks in there complete course in the subject. So how many marks for the lab and how many marks for the in semester exams and how many marks for the in semester exam. This is something you may want to find out later in surprise or if you recall. I remember certain. Theory exam carries 100 marks which is end semester exam and two mid semester tests and quiz actually are taken for award of class work marks. Then for labs class of marks are 50. And then there is a session marks award which is based on submission of lab assignments and the viva who say exams that are conducted one during the semester. Lab plus viva and how many marks for this session 50. So class work 50, session 50 and theory 100. And when you say theory that is a very funny nomenclature because I don't think you are teaching theory of either programming languages or theory of programming to them. You are teaching them very fundamental concepts of programming. So do you remember any pattern of the questions which are asked in the final exam? If I recall correctly from my endo days I also studied in that college by the way that's my alma mater. A paper would be question one a describe something something. Question one b some problem. Question two a ok discuss this or whatever. Question two b some problem. So typically 50% of the paper more or less would be descriptive and 50% would be that still happens. So 50 to 50 is a good ratio. That's a major departure incidentally because in IIT in programming course or most course of this time there is nothing like describe discuss something. Only problems and you have solved those problems. There is a very fundamental difference in the approach. But as I said we have to make something useful to those students. So if our material only has problems and no description whether that will not be. So one request is when you go back get some papers and ask those people who evaluate those papers to write down some model answers for some of them. So we will know what kind of answers fetch students marks. That is their ultimate interest in the life. Sir one copy I have. Oh you have. So we can share that with us. Ok. Any other question that Kaling would like to raise. Yeah please just use the mic. I am not an expert in the field but I have general observations to make. I am talking about changing this category or curricula. How do you distinguish these two? Scheme and another the scheme defines the courses that the students will take. And syllabus defines syllabus corresponds to one particular course which says what the student will study in this particular course. So there are two things. One is scheme and another is syllabus. Rules and regulations for a particular course. They are different. Curricular we need I mean to my mind when you frame a syllabus of a particular course. And you also add some kind of pedagogical components in it. Tutorials, comprehensively classes and particular methodology you want to add out. And if you integrate these two that becomes a curriculum. So curriculum reforms means that part of it. One thing which I have found in your presentation. That you presented the syllabus of that particular course. But the objectives of that course why do you want to teach this? Sorry I must answer this. We had arranged for this presentation. A very limited perspective of collecting ground level information only. So this is not supposed to be a discussion either on pedagogy or on curriculum. Although I extended my brief and I started raising those questions. So here the purpose is to just find that out. And we shall have a separate session. Two sessions in fact. One on the pedagogy which we will try to collectively refine. And the other on actually what we wish to do in that four week program for teachers. We have that there. Any other questions from the participants about anything that strikes them? How many teachers do you have that you did not mention? What is the total class size? Only 60 for one section. Six zero. Six zero. We have five sections per semester. We have total ten sections. Five sections are taught in semester A. And five are taught in semester B this course. Per semester. Per semester. Now five is sufficient because these five will again teach in the next semester. No, no. In fact they are given more number of subjects because the number of teachers are less. So one teacher is required to take at least half the subject which is different from this. So you will be given say for example one full computer programming plus half data structures or plus half one and half course is the load. Yeah. That is the loading IIT also. But how come we are much less loaded than your teachers have? So what is the assistance that they get? For example, who credits the lab? They themselves have two. Yeah, same teacher. And for the observation that most of us have is that here you have lot of support of PG students and you have lot of support staff also which doesn't happen at our place. So that actually loads the teacher with the correction work, assignment checking. And this kind of load is also there. Sir this is only for first year. Yeah. That's the kind of load that you have. And you don't have any technical staff in the lab. We do have. So do they not help with the conduct of the labs? Yes, there is some bit. So let us do this question. Are these technical staff, privately people who maintain the hardware and the software? Yes. They are not well versed in programming. No. They can participate in answering questions of students or checking on them. No, no. They are just providers of the technical staff. Yes. Yes. And what is the lab duration? Two hours. Sir the other subject, the other half subject actually is also quite a bit load because that class strength is more than 100. It's approximately 120. So again checking assignments, it becomes equal to one full subject. It's almost that. They are not really discussing teachers. Yeah. It's a point. Yeah it's, there is a point. I mean that the teachers are so much illuminated with work that they have no time to think. And they have no time to experiment and do any innovative work on it. And that is where we hope that collectively we will be able to do it. And I am very happy that those young teachers, inexperienced teachers will also get some good exposure in these programs through this pilot program. The last question that I wanted to ask is, out of 40 weeks, how many actual lecture hours are conducted? Because 4 hours 12 weeks you are saying. Minimum of 40, but it, sometimes it's 52, sometimes it's 48, sometimes. Minimum are 40. But sometimes there is a holiday, yeah. Sometimes, twice we have mid semester tests, so we cannot have classes during that time. Thank you so much.