 We are brainwashed by a fake spirituality. There is real spirituality within ourselves, man. It is there, and it's waiting only for those earnest seekers that really, really strive towards it. But just like you can't come into the kingdom of God unless you're innocent like a child. You can't attend to this pearl, to this treasure. You can't dive in deep to actually get it if you're still there. That's why when you inquire, you disappear and that's where the pearl shines. Do you know why they say the self or God is self-shining? It doesn't need something else to prove that it is. It's quite different. When we are not there to search for it in objects, it reveals itself because we're not there to obstruct our own view. Theo, welcome to the show. Thanks for your invitation. I'm glad to be here. We're happy to have you on, all hot and shirtless. You can use his nipples as a meditation object if you'd like. No, no, no. Don't focus on objects. That's why you suffer. Don't use my nipples. Use them just to move away from them. That's all. Yeah. That's good. So using your nipples as an entry point, what are you hinting at right now? Moving away from the objects towards what? Where's the subject? Of course. I mean, it's no problem. Everyone can focus on objects as much as they want, but they remain in the same subject object and the relationship. It just goes on further and further instead of cutting the knot. Right. And what do you mean by cutting the knot? Well, first of all, let me just mention this. Something really beautiful. Something very beautiful. It might seem like a mystery, this word consciousness, you know, or awareness, you know, if we use words and we don't know what they represent, it seems like it's a mystery, but it's not really a word that needs to be represented. It is just pretty much remembering yourself. Let me put it that way. So we can say consciousness or awareness is not that we remember ourselves. It's just a way of putting it, a very close, a very close way, because it's still words again, but a very close way of, or actually coming closer to what we are. It's not that we come closer or further, but at one point, this is what I would say you have to move from objects, from everything that comes and goes, from everything that passes in this open view, let's call it. You got to remain, let me stay like this just by yourself. Because when the subject, let's call it the ego, okay. Which is the same consciousness, but somehow it has name and form, because it's still the same I, but having name and form, it simply survives by clinging on to objects. So pretty much what's an object? It can be a thought, it can be a feeling, it can be an emotion. It can be a physical object. It can be anything that pretty much is outside of you, what you call out there, okay. So in the subject-object relationship, we are used to live all our lives, okay. And pretty much when we cut this knot of ego, or however you want to call it, we manage to remain as consciousness itself without any other object. Looking at objects without perceiving thoughts, without anything else, we can remain as we are. Basically the same consciousness that with name and forms, we call ourselves whatever name and we associate it with the body and we live in a world. Pretty much when it doesn't focus on objects and it just focuses on itself. And it's not really consciousness that does it, consciousness simply is. But it's simply this ego which can be perceived. If it doesn't stay in the subject-object relationship, then just pretty much focuses itself, it just disappears and what remains is consciousness. Just consciousness, no objects, no objects whatsoever, just consciousness. So I would say that's a way of putting it a very simple way. The knot being the ego, which is not really physical, it's not really pure consciousness, it's somehow in between. Is this suffer, is this thing that makes you suffer by clinging onto objects? If it's not focused on objects and it focuses on itself, it just vanishes. Then you, of course, you're able to remain just as you are, just as you are. Of course, until it rises again, it clings to an object. You go back towards yourself again and again and again and again until it's impossible basically to remain outside and you just settle as what you are. Right. Right. For you, your moment-to-moment experience is no self. No, no, no, no. Consciousness, because if we say no self, people might get the wrong idea, like no self as in Buddhism or, no, no, no. It's our experience to always be. The problem is that in wakefulness, we're more than what we are. That's why we suffer. If we manage to remain in wakefulness just as we are, basically exactly like in deep sleep, you can call it a wakeful deep sleep, which is somehow a contradiction. But then we don't speak about wakefulness or deep sleep. Okay, you can just remain as consciousness. Call it the self with capital S, or when I say no self, I pretty much mention like no person. You know, no ego, no self, no ego, no person. But there's in everyone's experience something that always remains and it's no different than ourselves. It always abides as I. So just like you experience in deep sleep, yourself, you experience yourself in wakefulness, you experience yourself in dreaming. You always have the experience basically of yourself. It's just that when you dream, or when you stay in wakefulness, identify with the body, it seems like you're something more than what you are. That's the only problem. It's not that you don't find yourself. It's just that you are more than what you should be. Right. Right, so for you, doesn't even matter if it's called wakefulness or capital S self or no ego or no self. It just doesn't matter any of those descriptions. It's just a freaking word. Right. It's just that consciousness doesn't matter. Just whatever. It's very interesting. It abides always as I. It's always abides as I. It's not a second person, a third person, and even the ego itself. It always abides as the first person, it always abides as something else. It clings to objects which are seen outside of ourselves. So the ego itself is a second, you can say a second or a third person is when it when it inquires about itself, it simply vanishes. There's no more ego and what remains is just presents. Right. Nice. So the moment that some sort of a some sort of like an external fixation or grasping arises that that sort of takes one away from what they are and then it's just an untangling for you and how you share it it's an untangling of that phenomena to what one always is before that fixation or grasping or clinging onto objects. Yes, pretty much whenever you fix objects, you have the experience of that object, but you lose the experience of yourself. Whenever we attach to it, it's like it's like that when when what we think we become. Well, of course, if you think if you think about your fears, if you think about your desires, immediately you become that, but some would say no no no it's still me. Yes, yes, it's still you, but you have something else that you got to think of, you know, and you pretty much become your fear your desire in it actually manifests emotionally to you. When you are without your fears when you are without your desires which are pretty much just objects, they appear. Let's call it in this field of consciousness just as objects before you are pre fine without the fear, you can stay like that without fear even now so it can be anything it's physical objects to that's why you can hear a lot of sages saying that we shouldn't focus on the world we shouldn't focus on thoughts we shouldn't focus on anything other than ourselves. It's for the simple reason that whenever we we fix something else, we pretty much just lose our real nature is not that we lose it but we connect with something else instead instead if we just connect to ourselves. Everything else it seemed through that through the first person. So everything else is just you just consciousness. Right when we interact, based on second and third persons, we always interact pretty much in a world of names and forms, but when when we interact from this place of just being. We don't interact with anything else other than ourselves, because you don't perceive external objects. Right. So as you could you would you say it's an interaction from the formlessness from the underlying unity. The formless doesn't do anything consciousness doesn't move only ego moves and really spirituality is about complete destruction of the ego but that doesn't happen until it's full surrender, which the ego never wants. So that's why self inquiry, for example, is like is not is not attending to the ego. Okay, we don't want to steal the mind we don't care how many thoughts arise. We just attend to ourselves and ego disappears. Okay, so basically said this this surrender or just kind of remain just as consciousness implies destruction of what we think you are to remain as we are. If it makes sense. Right, so you did just say cessation of movement. Right. Complete cessation of movement which is just in thoughts really. Move, move, nothing else moves. Right. You're thinking. Right, and then there's a not thinking. Yeah. I just say there's a possibility to stay completely without thinking. Right. Yes. Just like in deep sleep you have no thoughts you can stay completely thoughtless. Right, but that opens only when you don't connect to objects. Because if you experience just yourself, and you just settle as that you don't feel like going towards anything else. And whatever happens, good or bad, it's not on you good or bad because you have no thoughts of good or bad. Right. So whatever comes because some might ask like well you still got to live in a world you still got to do this you still got to do that. Whatever comes it just comes how it comes, you don't move. Right. So from this perspective of the first person, neither do you really see something that comes and goes since you just see yourself. Right. Or consciousness. Right. So it is from thoughtlessness. Whatever. No, no, no, no, no, no, no thoughtlessness is a byproduct of consciousness of just consciousness. So just like we mentioned before, consciousness doesn't move. Consciousness doesn't care about anyone's life. Consciousness doesn't care who dies or who's born. Consciousness doesn't care about what's good or bad. Consciousness doesn't care about anything that is actually included in the ego, doesn't recognize an ego. So that's why the ego itself, the sufferer and the enjoyer comes to a point where it sees this mechanism is just suffering and clinging on to anything else outside of ourselves brings the suffering as much as excitement as it brings at first. And it's just, it either creates dependency, or it creates somehow like fear, sadness, whatever the fuck it may be. And it comes to a point where you just wish complete destruction of yourself, which sounds like a paradox, because nothing gets destroyed. But somehow it's a good, it's a good, it's, I would say is the best way of, for me at least is the best way of putting it this way, just the complete destruction of yourself. Right. Whatever assumption of form and name and destruction of that into whatever is the force that sort of is prior to that that gives rise to that to everything. I'm noticing there's something interesting about thinking again. Well, there's, there is just something interesting about the way that this plays with itself. Well, the way that it. Again, you're thinking. Well, there's just all these different ways that it expresses itself. What expresses itself. The inexpressible. The what the inexpressible that's underneath of all of this incomprehensible that is inexpressible doesn't express in any way. It doesn't do anything. It doesn't move. It's still, well, even stillness would imply somehow the absence of movement, and it's not even that, but it simply is it doesn't do anything. If you think consciousness is the one, like, expressing and doing things is not that consciousness doesn't move doesn't do anything. It's not more a lot of people expressing in different ways. There's no such thing. Right. Right. Yeah, it feels like there's, there's something. Alex. Like. Yeah, go ahead. I just want to point to the fact the fact when we talk now. Yeah. There are a lot of things, all these these theories and all these confusion, so on and so because in the spiritual world that there are a lot of things, and a lot of theories, which, which make no sense. And not only that we, we usually just get distracted and just play and express it, but we don't observe when we think. And that's why all these things come into existence. And we think, we think when we don't stay as consciousness, if we stay as consciousness, we don't think consciousness doesn't do anything. Though, what I was commenting on was about how different. There's, there's the appearance of different expressions of consciousness expressing to itself how to be itself. And you seem to have a way of doing that that is different than many of the other sort of expressions of that online, like you just you have a different way of going about it that's all that I was normal people is just people is just people on the podcast people. I'm not afraid of usually I don't want to be correct spiritually correct non tool correct people talking people talking different things acting in different ways, I would I want to say this because consciousness doesn't do anything at all. Just for that just for that, but yes it's different what I'm talking about and I'm not seeing it in a like Jesus Christ what I have in you guys don't know no no no no it's different is different. When you catch the I thought that rises and cleans on to the world of objects and projects its own suffering just to get out of it. I'm just pointing out to the fact that this I thought can subside completely and when it subsides is just banishes and what remains is just awareness. But until that, the only way possible and this this is what Buddha did under the tree this is what Jesus did when he said about the kingdom of God is within you this is what Ramana Maharshi talks about even more clear talking about the consciousness that is in the absence of the I thought because it's not a thought consciousness is not a thought. But it's not something you can point that it's because the moment, the moment you move towards yourself, you disappear and there's no movement and what remains is just yourself. Right. Yeah. So it's all in this thinking it's all in this in these projections of the ego and staying in this sphere of expressions of this and that just just prolongs prolong spirituality prolongs non duality prolongs everything just because we don't see the I that has reason because we're not accustomed to be aware. First of all, be aware not to mention aware of ourselves because even if you're aware, at least a little about the present moment, you can get somehow of a taste that this mind can stop, but it's just a help in a way just to show you. But when you really attend what when your vision is turned in words, and you just remain at your own source. No thinking is possible because there's nothing that rises, just like in the moment before waking up. You have a split second when it's just consciousness, but then immediately, the I thought rises and it's you that woke up and you that has this body and you live in the world and so on. Without that is just consciousness. What I'm alluding to is like an, like an acclamation of sorts to the way that it's hinted at or that it's that the cutting through is being shared, let's say unwinding how unwinding the knot is being shared they're sort of like a period of acclamation because yeah you seem to have a very distinct style or way of approaching this. And I think I think it's beautiful each, each sort of way that it is shared. It's a distinct way of let's say of of of slowing someone down until they recognize how they are thinking. Basically, and so that they can see them for themselves how to cut through how to untangle that not. That's what I'm getting at. Just now when you talked. Just now when you talk, maybe you will watch the replay for like 20 seconds. You, you lost, you lost contact and went into thinking. And if you watch the replay you'll see why it's very interesting I don't want to say it, but it's very interesting. If you would watch the replay and see, and this is what happens with most of the speakers on the internet. They don't realize that what they're saying comes from thinking not from their actual experience. Now, maybe you don't acknowledge yourself as enlightened or awakened or whatever, you know, it doesn't even freaking matters it's a freaking joke, really. But I'm saying, I'm saying, if it's not direct, if it's not direct, it leaves room open for interpretation, it leaves room open for thinking, which is exactly what all the scriptures, all the spirituality all the non duality points at. It's to stop the mind, not even a single thought, not even a single thought, not even a single because the only thought that can remain. It would be the I thought which is at the base of every other thoughts, but it can't because when you're not aware of the world of objects you're not aware of the world of thoughts the world of emotions and everything else. If it focuses itself, it disappears completely, it can stay, it can stay, it's a ghost, it's not real, the ego is a ghost. But by name and form, it catches name and form too, it's the same I that now it can be a suffering person. And a moment later, it can be pure without any adjunct is that simple. So it's interesting, I like, I'm not really watching you or anyone else, but when I talk is very, when we talk is very easy when you lose yourself. But I'm wondering by the end of the video that we're making, if you notice how you lose yourself, do you have an idea? What would you say? Yeah, just, just leaving non movement, basically. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But it's very subtle, it's very subtle. When the eye rises, and if you can, that this is what if you have read. Ashtavakar Gita, have you heard of it? Yeah. When Janaka said, he finally caught the teeth. The eye that was rising, he finally caught it. He caught the point where it rises. And that's, that's, that's the brilliant thing, because you don't really have to do anything outside of just being yourself. But the moment you catch the eye thought, that's really brilliant. That's really brilliant. Because it's very, it's a long, long, long habit. Right. I was just about to say that. Yeah. Yeah, it's a strong pattern. Yeah. Wanting to leave into movement of some sort. Repeatedly over. Yeah. Sort of staying in non movement is, feels like a new pattern that's learned in a way. You have to think. You have to think to see this. Yeah, basically, yes. Yes, yes, yes, but it can be your own experience. You're that. Yeah, that's the beauty of it. Right. Do you talk about training and concentration? No, no, no. Well, it's more, if you would say, if you would say, in a way it isn't, it is concentration, but being it concentration upon yourself. Immediately, the one that concentrates disappears. So it's not really concentration. The moment you start actually and correctly inquire, it's immediately being, that's why I can say it's a practice. And if it's, if it's taken like really, really, really good. And you've got to, you've got somehow at least a mental understanding out of it, or even better. You started noticing when the eye thought rises. It's very cool because, because you can't see it as a concentration, because concentration is from the point of the ego. I got to concentrate. I got to be more like this. I got to be more like that. But if the ego admits openly that suffering it, it all, it's all that it knows. And it attains to its own destruction. That's immediate to call it enlightenment, call it what it is. But it's short. It's short. If it's, if it's not done again and again and again until it is complete. But even by this process, you'll see that you have less and less thoughts. But I can't say it's concentration. If some people are like, well, it's self inquiry. I got to do it. I got it. They think it's about concentration, but it's about taking up taking a very great opportunity to actually know yourself by being yourself. Do you describe yourself as anything or no? You can't really describe yourself because you would have to look at yourself to describe yourself. And since it's just you, you can't really describe yourself. But, but for sure you can say something very obvious that you always are. And as much as you think like you're the traveler in all the three states of consciousness and you have all these bodies and you have all these memories and everything else. By what I'm saying, you can see that the states of consciousness because that's why they are called states of consciousness. You know, they happen within you. All the states of everything, the whole world happens within you without your awareness, without you as awareness, the world can be seen. How can you see the world now without being aware of it really? How can you notice in deep sleep that you had no dreams if you weren't there? How would you, how would you talk about your dreams in the morning if you were not there to witness the dreams? We always see seeing is permanent. It's 24 seven. The problem is that it gets lost and mixed with objects. That's the only problem. And do you ever also call yourself your thoughts or the objects? What do you say? Do you ever also refer to yourself as the thoughts and the objects? You can't refer to yourself as thoughts and objects since you are the one being aware of thoughts and objects. Thoughts happen outside of you. You're aware of them. Subject objects, subject object and everything else you can perceive. It's outside of you, including the body, including the mind. Whatever can be witnessed is not you. But then when you remain as the ultimate witness or as the seer or whatever it is or just as seeing because really there's no seer. There's no subject. There's no comment about thoughts because you have no thoughts. And there's no comment about objects because you don't see objects. That's why Jesus said very beautiful. Don't remain in the world, but don't remain as part of it. At least from these texts. Maybe he didn't say it, but it's very cool what I read in these texts. Because this can be everyone's experience. You can still live in a world. But you're completely not of it. How can you be since the world happens within you? If the world is there second before you as awareness to witness it. So do you feel that awareness and world are separate? Different. No, no, it's it. Well, let me put it this way. If I have to explain it. I have to separate. Just for the, for the sake of explanation. I see. Right. Yeah. Cause I got them as non separate. And then when you do explain you explain them as separate to help. Shift more away from world too. Okay. Cause then there's no point of a world since it's just you. If you focus on yourself. And manage to remain there without movement without anything without going outside. That which goes outside disappears and it takes no ownership of a world of a body or objects. So how can you talk about anything since you just perceive yourself? Do you talk about the stillness as a perfection or anything like that? Well, you are perfection. Yes, you can say it's it's perfection in a way that you have no lack. You have no need since you always are what we desire and what we want is always in the future. It's always as a next opportunity. What I'm talking about. It's an all present opportunity. It's not in the future. It always is. And it's brilliant because it is perfection in the sense that it doesn't matter how much the body can be beaten up. It doesn't matter how much the mind can get exhausted. It doesn't matter how much whatever else happens in the world, you can't be affected. It's impossible. We just imagine that we suffer. Our suffering is our own responsibility for attending to something which we're not. If we don't attend to that, we have no thoughts. If we have no thoughts is just peace. If it's peace inside, how can it not be peace outside too? But then you don't really see peace inside or outside is just peace. So in a way you can say it's perfection from this point of view because it's unaffected man. You just like we see when we wake up that dreams have not affected us and we just imagine all that crap. It's the same with what we called real life. We think we suffer just so in the end we can freaking wake up at one point to see that it's like we were in a freaking corner being afraid of our own projections. And yes, I would say this is very much necessary to remain at least at first to make the difference between what's real and what's unreal. Right. Yeah. So there's a knot that gets unwinded through that process. What do you mean by unwanted? Unwinded? Unwinded, like a knot. Yes, yes, yes. So when we sleep, when we sleep and we have no dreams, there's no such thing as a knot because we're not aware of objects. But when we wake up with reading, we don't wake up. So that wakes up. That's the knot, what wakes up and goes back to sleep. What we are doesn't wake up, doesn't go back to sleep. So that's why self-attention or self-awareness focuses on that which wakes up and goes back to sleep just so we see that we never wake up and we never go back to sleep. The same thing, which the moment it sought for disappears, what remains is just the peace that was in deep sleep, the same consciousness that was just aware of itself. But from the point of view of a person or an individual that identifies with the body, and all it knows is just this, I thought, I body consciousness. It brings, he was absent in deep sleep, but it's not true. It's just because you woke up in the morning again as that, which went to sleep and it's the same identification, which brings the same hindrances. But you had to be in deep sleep to witness that there was absolutely no content there. It's funny and interesting that you're pointing to Ramana and the untangling or unwinding of the I thought as a pinnacle of how to, the how, basically, the how. Because that's what people ask, they ask how. The only way. There's no other way, because as much as you search in objects, the out of this habit of searching in objects, you know, like, you know, the karma, you know, is not really what we think karma is. It's, it's all in our mental tendencies. So if we search in objects, okay, where we meditate on objects, we just prolong this habit of attending to objects. But the ego is the problem, not the object. The object is neutral, is insane. It has no business with us. So it doesn't matter, you can meditate on an outward God, you can meditate on all kinds of meditations until you attend to the meditator to actually subside for the possibility of meditation. There can be a meditation, because meditation on object in the end would be just focusing. What we're talking about is a completely unfocused view, which may sound weird that comes by focusing the subject but it's immediate when it's done, it's being. So our only duty is just to be aware of ourselves as we are. And if it happens that we have tendencies of rising as egos, immediately we got to reverse back to our attention. And then there's no ego. And I like Ramana because it took me years, a lot of years, very few people can understand him because it really requires practice. And that's why it gets self-inquiry, it's misunderstood, it's all about self-attention. It's not about asking like a madman, who am I, who am I, we're finding the place where the thoughts arise, like it's some place outside of ourselves or some mystical place doesn't matter where, you know, you really have to study it to at one point be able to practice correctly. And Ramana, from my perspective at least, I haven't found or seen a man that explained it well or better than him. He explained it very, very clear. And just because he explained that everything that can be perceived is an obstacle, what else do we remain with other than ourselves? That's where we find liberation, that's where we find freedom, that's where we find peace. A lot of people think it's about a state of enlightenment, it's about awakening to some what nature, being rich, being successful, but dude in deep sleep, we're none of that. And we're happy, we're peaceful. It's a different kind of happiness, because it's resting. And when you don't take yourself to be the body, and you rest as consciousness, the body is able to rest too. But you know why I don't see or don't see the body sleeps, because there's no one in the body that's sleeping. The body just rests naturally. If there's a sleeper there, yes, the body sleeps. But the body doesn't sleep, the body doesn't say, I woke up, or I go back to sleep, it's only the ego which says all this crap. So it's not really about achieving something, it's about settling as what we are, resting as what we are. It's very simple, but it's hard in a way, because very few are able to stick just to the subject. Because the mind it may be very agitated, very anxious, and you only always want to find something to cling on. And you get an object to meditate upon, but it just makes your concentration better towards objects. Your concentration towards yourself is impossible, because what remains is just beingness, and that has no, it has nothing to it. Right, so first you point to a duality, you create a duality to help recognize stillness, and then after recognizing stillness, then stillness and movement are equivalent. Well, just as an explanation, self-attention itself gets rid of duality immediately. It's just the explanation to actually hear and understand correctly what you have to do. Because some people find the eye thought in the body, some people find it an emptiness, some people find it in different things. And they think they inquire correctly while they are still attending to other things, and they wonder why self-inquiry doesn't work correctly. It's because you fold yourself into feelings and sensations, taking yourself to be eye. And it's in a way understandable, because thoughts are one thing, physical objects are one thing, but emotions are deeper. That's why when we feel anxious, we feel sad, we feel lonely, it affects us very deep. When we have thoughts, it's not that bad, sometimes you can get rid of them, but an emotion, it's a little harder, or a feeling or something else. So do you describe the eye thought as sensation? No, no, no, no, it's not a sensation. Because the moment the eye thought attends to itself, it disappears, it's not real, it doesn't exist, it has no substance. It's not made of anything. Do you describe it as a projection? You can't really, I would say a projection is when the subject hallucinates. Right. When the subject is focused, there is no, I would say, let me put it this way, it's not the projection, it's the projector. And just like the projector projects, like you have the, you know, the screen, the screen and the movie, you might have heard it. Okay, we have the projector, which is the mind that projects on the screen of consciousness and movie. The moment we stop attending to our own projections, okay, and we attend to the screen immediately by turning off the projector, that's immediate, that's immediate consciousness. When the projector attends to itself, what remains is only the screen because it gets turned off. So in your one-on-ones and whatnot, you treat moments of stillness and peace like this as the person sort of figuring out what they are resting as they are. If I'm figuring in one-on-ones, what did you say? In your one-on-ones that you have when the person sort of stills themselves and like is able to just be as they are with you presently, do you think that to be like their progress, do they usually report that as their progress? Well, progress can be really just for the ego. Or realization, do they report that as their realization, do you? No, if they say, if anyone tells me that somehow they realize something or they get closer, they're still in their own projection, it's just their thoughts. In my one-on-ones, the best I can do is simply point to the fact that you don't have to look at the world, you don't have to look at anything that comes by the outside and it's something you can focus on. And that's actually the reason of suffering, okay, your own projections. And the moment you just remain still and know that you are God as this I am principle, the moment you focus on this I am, your projections disappear with the world with everything else. So when they manage somehow to unfocus the world and just focus themselves, they experience, yes, what they are, but the problem is out of these tendencies to again rise, to again rise, to again rise. Some might think it's a practice just because the ego is there to say it's a practice or it's a progress or it's whatever it is. But the same thing has to be done again all over and really it's not a problem of realizing the goal because the goal really exists before any type of goal. The goal is not somewhere in the future. But the only thing that's useful, it's actually knowing how to do it properly so then you don't need other goals because any goal comes as thought. So in a way it's not really much to say about it, but that's why it's beautiful. You won't be there to say anything about it. Since you remain at that, what can you really say about it? How can you describe yourself? There's a lot of words, omnipresence, omnipotent, omnidis, omnidat, beyond the worlds, but it's really more simple than that because from the ego's perspective it seems like something to fantasize about. No, no, no, it's very simple. It's very, very simple. There's no distinction to draw. There's no measurement to make. What it is. As it is. Well, well, well, well, let me put it this way. Someone say it is what it is or just what is. They refer to thoughts, emotions, feelings, objects, so on and so forth. I'm not referring to that. When I say what is, is consciousness. And it is as it is because it can be other way. It doesn't modify. It doesn't come. It doesn't go. It always is as it is. But I want to make this distinction because some speakers or teachers or whatever they say. This is all that is the moving cars, the window, the heat, the sensations, the anxiety, the confusion. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not what it is. That's absent when you sleep. It's completely absent. So we don't have to settle for less. We don't have to let to settle for what comes and goes, I would say, what is, is that which while awake, deep sleep while awake. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. But then if deep sleep is brought upon wakefulness, then there are not two states. You know, it's not even a state, because if consciousness is all there is, and you remain as that what state are you there to move in. Only the traveler only the ego moves from one state of consciousness to another. So you're finding your experience to be something like deep sleep and then some sort of eating or talking or like some sort of a mixture of those. You know how babies eat from their mother's breast? It's like they eat, but at the same time, they're not aware of the action of eating. They're not aware of what the body is doing, or thinking now this is me, this is my mom, I'm getting fed, and I'm no hunger, no this, no that, you know. It's just like a sleeping baby that gets fed, that moves, that does. You know, Jesus said something beautiful only those who are innocent like kids can enter the kingdom of God, which is very cool, because he wasn't pointing at an innocence like like pretending to be a kid with our responsibilities without. No, no, no, it's the innocence of your own or intimacy of your own consciousness that is not dirty with thoughts yet. So you're not thinking. And when you're not thinking, and you remain just as that, you're not of the world, and whatever happens in the world, it happens to the body. But since you're not the body, you can say it happens to you. And whatever you do, you eat, you sleep, you walk, you work, you don't move. Just like the baby that sleeps while it's being fed, and is not aware of being fed in the same way you're not aware of other things other than yourself. And it's beautiful because you don't feel separation. And that's why I love about Ramana Maharshi and the authentic spirituality that still can be found in the Indian scriptures, for example. It's because, dude, they talk about Satchit Ananda. Existence, consciousness, bliss, why bliss? Why bliss? Because it's in our own nature to feel blissful, but not in the way we think as excitement. Peace, and this is what has been lost in this new age spirituality, and a lot of crap we just feed, which just feeds the ego. What these people do talk about, it's real. It's an actual experience. But when I see experience, some imagine as something you'll get or, no, no, no, no, no, with the experience of what you are. In each moment, without thought, without objects, we really can take this great opportunity to know ourselves or just be ourselves. Yeah. Do you use the, or suggest using the breath as a way to be yourself or to know yourself or rest as you don't? Well, breath is outside of you. Breath is still an object. Doesn't matter. Yes, it's more subtle than the body. It's still substance. Doesn't matter if it's more subtle. If you're focusing on breath, you're still focusing on something. Are you aware of your breath in deep sleep? No. Yeah, exactly. No one is. So that's the easiest way, is the easiest way. This can bring a good understanding that how deep sleep is peaceful without worries, without objects, without anything, including the subject itself, that we should realize that the difference between deep sleep and wakefulness is just us rising as an eye, as an ego, connecting to our own projections by attending objects. It's just about the eye, which is absent in deep sleep, as the ego. So why go about breath? Why go about, I don't know, mantras, words, gods, statues, chakras or anything else. If the eye that connects to all this crap is the only issue, it's very obvious when we say I feel bad or I feel anxious. It's very obvious that it's us experiencing anxiety, sadness or anything else, but we experience it because of some thought or because of some physical object. Without that, we're at peace. Whatever happens to us, that's the coolest thing. Real spirituality makes you responsible for your own misery. It makes you responsible for everything because we clearly see we cause our own ship by thinking. Immediately jealousy arises if we think of our girlfriend as an object and someone uses our object which we take our home, someone is going into our home and we don't like that, we become jealous or possessive, someone uses our car or the talk even of someone using our car, that's me. That's me, what I identify with as I, the car, the apartment, the girl, this, that, it's all fucking suffering as much bliss as we think it gives us. Everything that the ego is made of, it's outside of it and it seems solid as much as it maintains this relationship. So it doesn't matter if the ego takes form of the worker, it doesn't matter if it takes the form of a families or the shopper or the sufferer or the enjoyer or even the meditator. Fuck, it still takes a form man. So even these formal objective meditations, it's still to keep the meditator on. Yeah, it's really miserable to weave one's identity into so many objects. So the identity is the object, that's the problem. The identity is made up just out of objects, just like this. Without me thinking I'm a boyfriend, okay. So without thinking I'm a boyfriend, I would have to not attend to the object which I name my girlfriend, mine, mine, you know, without the object girlfriend, there can be me as the boyfriend. Without the object work, there can be me as the worker. Without the objects, I don't know. Without the absence of money work, or in this case you're poor just because you desire money as thought, that's maybe the difference between someone poor and someone rich. The rich doesn't need to think about money, it has it in its hand but the poor one thinks about the money as an object. Both have money, one has it in its mind, one has it in its hand, but both are in the mind actually. That's why it doesn't matter how much money you have, you're the rich one when the money makes you, when the objects makes the subject the rich. But then you still suffer, it doesn't matter how much money you have. The identity is the problem really, not the objects, what I'm talking, because the money doesn't say, doesn't say anything, nothing says anything, just ego has pros and cons, compares, associates so on and so forth. So even if you have money, if you have a house, if you have a girlfriend, just because you have and stabilizes an identity, it makes you miserable. So living without identity, I'm not saying you won't function. You can still go to your job, you can still eat, you can still fuck, you can still take care of your kids, you can still do whatever you want, but you function differently. Since you remain at that which always is awareness and what the body does is what the body does, it's none of our business. What are you thinking? Just relaxed. You're relaxed? Yeah. That's good. So you have no thoughts? It feels really good. No need to move. I think more clearly see the subtle urge of, there's still something to get, there's still something to find. There's still something to write down, there's still something to share. There's still some wisdom to attain or to distill into a book, whatever. Can I ask you, when you talk, where are you looking? Into some projection of a story. Okay, okay, okay, okay, very good. Okay. That's in when there's this phenomenon, rapid eye movement. Why, why, why, when we dream, our eyes move fast, because we project the reality in the same way in wakefulness. Dreaming, looking who the fuck knows where, without looking deep into ourselves, when there's no projection, but it's just peace. Are you also familiar with the Trinity model and the Orthodox Christianity? Oh, I come from, from an Orthodox Christian background. Right. Similarly, do you feel like that is the father? Do you feel like that? Like is the father what? Alex, where are you looking? What's with the father? What's with the father? Nothing. Nothing. There's nothing. It's just another way of putting it. Yes, just another way. It's just another story. Another way of putting it, yeah. You can make like somehow a beautiful analogy, like, you know, the sun, without the, without, without the Holy Ghost, can't really remain one with the father. So, so, yeah, when it receives the Holy Ghost or whatever it's one, the father and I are one, you know, the fresh breath of the fucking spirit. That's a good one with the rapid eye movement, dream projection. Pretty good. Alex, watch. I haven't watched the videos on your channel, but I bet if you watch carefully, most the people you have interviewed, or even those that talk about truth. I say it's very rare, and I know I'm not saying it just because it's my experience, but it's very obvious when someone knows what it's talking about, because the eyes, they say the windows, the window to our soul, right? If it's clean, where can it move to something which comes and goes, but then it's not clean. Have you seen babies? Like, four months, five months, look how they look, it's pure perception, no thoughts. That's the stereotype in which we should be all day long, and we can still function, it's no problem, we can still, I guarantee it, and you function better, because the lens are clear. You're not looking with the glasses outside, you're looking fucking good with it. But yeah, just like those. And I want to make a point to this, because many get confused. Just like the babies, just like the animals that are just remaining as perception, we can remain as that pure perception, we don't have to chase thoughts. The father brings everything we need, we don't need anything else. You know, that's complete faith, abiding as pure perception, not having faith in an outward God, you know? Because then if we need faith for an outward God, then we're not, we have not surrendered completely. But many people that talk about it, they don't know what they're talking about, because they're thinking. It's very cool to see that when you remain as this beautiful presence, and you guys can search. Watch Osho, watch Ramanama, harsh his eyes, you can find videos with him on YouTube. You might see his head moving like this, you know, because he was fucking overwhelmed by this power of the self, but his eyes don't move, man. They remain just like in deep sleep. Open someone's eyes, in deep sleep you'll see they don't move. Open someone's eyes when they dream. And open now someone's eyes that dreams in their sleep all their life. That's the beauty when you open your eyes for the first time from the inside. The eyes will just reflect your state, when you open your eyes from the inside. The baby, the fresh baby seems to be doing something that's between the two, where it's both a deep sleep and like bouncing, like understanding the dream, beginning to understand the dream. Well, the baby when the baby looks, they don't have the vision formed until like six months or something like that. And when the baby, until it's like six months, it can't focalize objects. So it's somehow in an unfocused view, you know. So the baby doesn't perceive yet the world when it's young, it doesn't see the world outside of itself. But of course, the moment thought is learned the moment. The formation is formed, you know, because in the Bible, because we talked a little bit about Christianity, you know the formation of the world, the God make the world in the six days and the seven day he rested. I would say the seventh day should be the first day, which symbolizes young created God. And I would say the other six days is just the creation of the world. The Sabbath is the root and then the six days are dream of all sort. Anything really about is, I swear, we are brainwashed by a fake spirituality. There is real spirituality within ourselves, man. It is there. And it's waiting only for those earnest seekers that really, really strive towards it. But just like you can't come into the kingdom of God, unless you're innocent like a child, you can't attend to this pearl, to this treasure. You can't dive in deep to actually get it if you're still there. That's why when you inquire, you disappear and that's where the pearl shines. Do you know why they say the self or God is self shining? It doesn't need something else to prove that it is. It's quite different when we are not there to search for it in objects. It reveals itself because we're not there to obstruct our own view. It seems to be a part of the game, all of that noise and only that little bit of signal and really seeking through all of the hay to find the needles seems to be an important part of the game. It seems so. It seems so. And in a sense that you alluded to being so powerful and important. Any time there's a little bit of a sense of self that wants to hijack its realization and just go and it's not that. Well, that's that's why Raman is so majestic. From my perspective, of course, it doesn't have to be that way for everyone. He helps us cut all the seeking in the hay. And then we remember that the needle is in our pocket. That's why it's hard finding it in the hay. We have it in our pocket. We just got to search in our pocket, not in the hay, you know. Yeah. I'm really truly feel the needle all over in the pocket. Well, dude, this is not something that I have written one else had. Everyone is this. Everyone. Right. And maybe really there are no waters. All sentience is it. Is because when you remain as that, when you remain just as this principle of I am. Well, it's I am with points to I. Okay, it points to me. And am is just being this. I am the beingness. And then we don't talk about other sentient beings. This is the core of the creation. This is the uncreated light of the call it in orthodox spirituality, orthodox Christianity, young created light, the core of all creation. If it's just God, it makes sense that the creation it's God itself, you know, but we can't know ourselves as God, if we search in the creation because we're going to be lost in it. Basically, we got to strive towards that which can be seen. It can be really found, but it's our own experience. And then we can talk really about creation, since we can see separation, we can see duality. Really feeling this needle all over. Oh, it's your own experience, man, you should. You should be totally in that. Yeah. I know how people think. One this is the gathering of all things. You know, like everything's one this like our emotions are feelings are the objects we see the thoughts everything else that's one this. That's basically saying creation is one. It's all we can see that the thought is different from the car the car is different from our mother our mother is different from the force. You can't really find oneness in the creation. You find God, or that's what you want to find you know God or what we are. You find it within yourself and then you can, but you can see it's one essence is just one. Some people execute just like I did a lot of times when I was seeking. I thought I got to see oneness as everything is the same thing no no we see or perceive what true oneness but I don't like really saying oneness we remain as one. We stop attending to whatever else is there it doesn't matter if we say it's real and real. If we make it as oneness. It's really freaking futile to find anything there, because it's still the subject. Making or imagining everything as one we got to cut off all the imagination. Because if there's imagination will imagine oneness to be a lot of things coming together. World peace humans holding hands, animals not being slaughtered so on and so forth like like a picture of oneness and gratitude and heaven is not like that. Each one is responsible it doesn't matter how life is, we are we are responsible, not God, not our neighbor not it, we are responsible for our ego that rises just like we're responsible for our own true nature. One of those it can it can it can be simultaneously that's why it can't be a oneness. It's the whole fact that we point that to the window to the door to this to that to whatever and and just we try to make a theory out of it and saying always God with me. We move the whole point of God that abides here we're attending to the needle or attending to the hay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and you can't find the needle. Hey, that's why it's so hard. So going from room to room looking for the diamond that's around the neck. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's why the spiritual search seems like we're trying to find the needle in the pay. Because it's so fucking hard trying to find with our own awareness. The object which we think will bring us the realization. We're trying to find something which is not now in the hay in the future by recollecting the past to search better for a separate experience than this. Right, but I'm not pointing now to the experience of sitting in the chair or talking no no no no awareness awareness. I'm always aware, but the moment we're aware of our own awareness. There's not to want to be aware of the other is just awareness. Right. Yeah, that's that's the needle. That's yeah. We found the needle we found the needle we were holding it. It just wasn't a separate person that was holding some awareness it was awareness itself that was holding itself. It wasn't a separate person that was finding the needle and awareness is the needle. It is, it is itself. Yes, it's like the needle trying to find itself in the hay, you know, it's basically impossible it can be an experience that is not now. It's impossible it's that's why it's it's this this this freaking funny stories of people going to the peaks of the Himalayas to get initiated in Korea yoga finding Babaji, you know, because the ego, the more it searches the more it tries to find the stronger it gets. The bigger is the goal, the more it's fulfilling or sad or it thinks the more satisfied and fulfilled that will be. But dude, when you go from your apartment to the peaks of the Himalayas. Awareness is in your apartment and awareness is there, or better said, your apartment is an awareness Himalayas are in awareness to otherwise you couldn't be aware of them. Yeah, so that's why we don't need to leave. We don't need to go anywhere else other than towards our own self, because even those masters if they are for real, they'll have to point towards you. How can truth be somewhere else? How can truth be cultivated? You can say yes you cultivated in a way that ego loses its grip more and more and more and more on objects, and it tends to itself yes you can see you cultivate the right knowledge to stop focusing on other things but then from it's from the perspective of the ego that you're getting better consciousness doesn't say anything consciousness doesn't move. Consciousness doesn't give a fucking shit. And that's why it's beautiful. We are the only ones responsible. I love that about the room is in awareness and the Himalayas are in awareness. The book is an awareness. Yes. The video of the video talking is an awareness. Yes. It's yours that will watch this video if it's going to be posted at one point. The video is in their awareness. They are watching the video and they think it's outside. But the moment they attend to themselves they'll see that the video is within the whole freaking physical reality is what is mental. Vanishes. There is not even a mental is just you. But until then everything whatever happens happens with you within you. So even those books that we read to get somewhere or understand what awareness is happens by our awareness. I'm going to project out on wholeness and then I'm going to find play the game of finding it in what I always was through some sort of a deconstruction of my own projection of illusion of on wholeness. I wanted to construct your reality how would you do it. See where I'm projecting the needs for something other than this. What do you what do you mean by that. Like I like like I want to I want to understand somehow like the impulse or the need for something other than the needle that is already. Like the deconstructing of that impulse or the need for something other than what is. Okay, but how did the construction takes place. Right. Like this is very important because the only way it can die off with the ego that projects. Right. So it's all with one way ticket towards yourself that's the only way. You might hear people with big boss an hour other crap deconstructing realities they're just imagining there. Because they're attending to objects to deconstruct them and this happens within their own illusion of being a separate self. And this is just an example there are plenty of plenty of examples. Wouldn't it be weird if if all these sages were saying different things pointing to the same truth it would be weird. But I say most of them are wrongly misunderstood. Either by their first disciples that didn't understand them, or by just people that's right about them and we get this understanding of deconstructing reality from a separate self from the ego the ego trying to deconstruct its own bullshit how can it do so it's impossible. It's constantly creating even the feeling of deconstructing a reality. Right. Do you hold are you. 20. I'm third I'm turning 30 soon. Yeah. Are you traveling mostly, or do you have a place that you usually stay for more of the time. Oh, yeah, I stay in Romania in Bucharest, but I'm traveling. Whenever people request, when there are let's say in Germany right they gather 10 people they, I get the same messages, I'll do an event that and I'll travel or, or go for a period of time, like now I'm going, I'm going to Canada. I'm going to make an event to, or I'll go after maybe to UK only in that sense I'm traveling otherwise I don't really travel. Hey you just stay at home a lot. Yeah. Yeah. This is my. What did you say. This is my ashram. Right. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Were you born there. No, no, no, no, no, in Gala, it's a different city. But in Romania, though. Yeah. And raised there your whole life. Yeah. Do you raise by mom and dad. Yeah. Well, I remain with my parents with my grandparents, most of my childhood, because they moved to Bucharest and I remain there. Did you have brothers and sisters. No. Only child. Yeah. Did you feel like there was something missing that you wanted to find all the time, all the time. When you were young like how yeah. Yeah. When I was young, I was running outside. Well, it's not it's not that childhood that you have in the cities. It's more that countryside childhood, you know, even though it's in a city it's it's more like like free of running on garages of at eight, you stay until 11 or 12, you know, at night you pure your grandparents come with like a big stick to run towards you to go back home trying to find you in the neighborhood. And all that crap you get into fight you know that kind of childhood, but but I have moments where I would go go I was I would remain. It was very weird. I would run with my friends outside even when running, even when doing activities I would black out for 30 minutes. And then I would come back and didn't know what happened for 30 minutes. But I didn't ask people because somehow I didn't feel the need to because I was still in the right place with them no one said anything so I guess the questions weren't raised. It was a little weird, but at the same time I couldn't get preoccupied about it, because it didn't happen like on a regular basis it happened from time to time, you know. And then, besides this like like there were some other, some other weird experience how we would call them. At 13 when I moved to Bucharest, or 12, no 12, but at 13. I got myself. My mom was always spiritual and we had like a big library, you know, and I found some books, like the first book I read, either what what I think it was on the four noble truths or were life of Buddha or something like that. Somehow somehow I got my answer there's still, there's something to seek something to find, but but I thought it's outside that's the problem, you know, but but I always felt something was missing. Yeah, right, but it's not something that's missing it's when you are missing when you're not on your throne when you're not settled there. Impostors come and take your place, and then you're like, fuck, you want to get into the kingdom back, you want to get into the castle. But you, you, that's the thing you, you, you think only when you're on the throne that you're on the king, you're the king, you know, because because it's very easy you can get back your throne by simply shouting, and everyone will respect your orders. But the thing is, most people identify just, just, just like the bag like a beggar and forget that they're the king, you know. Yeah. So when I, when I, when I, when I got myself my, my, my hand on, on, on that book. That was the start you can see of a spiritual journey to somehow find freedom. Because it may, even if I was 13, it makes sense, like this guy, because I was thinking somehow like this, like, this guy has it all, a fucking castle, girls, food, entertainment, he'll be king of emperor, whatever he'll be, but still he's not happy. You know, it makes sense why he leaves to find, he, he must, he must have a burning desire for a truth. You know, there's something missing and I got to find it that it's very obvious. He's been spoiled with everything. And it just makes him more miserable. So he has to find truth. Well, he could have found it in the castle too. But like it, you see, it's very hard by attending to the world you're used to, to, to find truth because you'll get distracted by people by what you have to do there and someone you got to find somehow a sage, what naked in the woods to tell you to look within. And if not, you remain like Buddha under the Bodhi tree, having no option left but to look within. It's interesting in the stories of Christ and Buddha that they're really taken to the extremes in order for the revelation to be found within. Yes. Yes. Yes. And that's, that's why they're written that way so that you can sort of recognize quickly that it doesn't matter how far out you take these stories to their extremes that you'll always find what you're looking for within. Yes. Yes, yes. You can't, you can't symbolically or archetypally express a story that's beyond those stories. Like that's, that's why they're there. And that's why they've lasted thousands of years. But that's why I love them so much. I love these stories so much, because they bring the authenticity of spirituality. It shows that we do it without striving. It's impossible. It's impossible. We got used to new age spirituality where we're lazy and we want somehow an outside truth to come with us, to us. But it's actually different when we're tired of looking outside, even waiting for a truth to come, then we're able to look within. So those immature seekers, they can't look within. It's too many thoughts, too many tendencies, too many habits of looking outside. So that's why they don't get prepared to look within. They just waste and waste again. All the tendency to look towards objects and they see at one point that even meditating on objects doesn't do you any good. You're still focused. If truth is within, well, that within is not an object. That within is the subject. Right. So the share the duality to get the recognition of the subject and then you collapse the duality. When someone's seeking, you point to the needle, the subject. And to really feel it all over, really all over. And then you can collapse the duality between this object and the object. Yes, but it makes sense. Why? Because when you're not attending to objects and you just attend to yourself, the objects or the tendencies to look towards objects lose grip on yourself. And the more it loses the grip, the more they move further away and you just remain by yourself. And when you actually remain by yourself, you see that there is no object due to fine. It's just you. Because when you look within, that which looks within disappears. And what remains is just the kingdom of God is just seeing is just being no person whatsoever. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say those who manage somehow to inquire, which is not really because even what trauma says, you know, asking questions, who am I and this and that is not about receiving an answer is just to stabilize self attention. You move to the object. You don't bother about the object and you remember who am I, that's the search, who am I, not what's that. No, no, no, it's who am I, you reverse to self attention, you go out again. Again, when you just remain like this. And then you don't need to ask questions. Because you've got to think of it. You understand what self attention is you've done it many times. And now you don't need scriptures you don't need indications you don't need anything. You just got to remain there. That's it. Right. Yeah. I think one is just pointing the finger and looking at the point of the finger. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's looking at what the finger points. That's, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. One second. Yeah, important distinction. No, no, what do you think. Important distinction. Yeah. Exactly. Looking at what the fingers pointing to. Yes. Yes. What is it pointing to that simple practice and stabilizing in that enough to where you're not reading anymore, you're not looking at, you're not seeking anymore. No, no, no, no, no. If you're still reading if you're still trying to get insights, you have not understood yet. That's why I said when you're not anymore. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Somehow we read, and we try to try to contemplate just just so we're mature enough to to dive in deep within ourselves. That's true. All the reading is for that. All the reading is for that. Yeah. When we see drugs don't help us because he doesn't help us money doesn't help us even outward spirituality doesn't help us. Right. Left alone. Very good. Very good. Now spirituality can start. Good start alone. Right. Here no guru can help you. No teacher can help you. It's just you. And if we listen correctly to what the outward guru for example says to look within. We actually see dude that the guru calls us from within and it's not separate from us. He wasn't talking from the body he was talking from where you're looking. Yeah. And for the first time if you're looking in that direction which is backwards. There you see the guru shining in the heart and not outside as the body. Because you then don't see yourself as the body and you remain just as seen. It's brilliant is brilliant brilliant brilliant how we're responsible for our own happiness. And we are that happiness which we look for. Take it this way. When we desire let's say you're at home and you desire like chocolate. Okay. You go to this you take your clothes you take a shower you put your clothes on. You go to the store you get chocolate you go back home to eat it to feel satisfied. Not because you got the chocolate. But because your thoughts have subsided and you don't have the tendency to think about chocolate which you think will make you happy. All we think that all we think of all the objects that we perceive as in this will make us make us happy it's false is just the ego thinking that will bring the success. But when we get the chocolate we eat it and we feel like shit after. We felt good eating it because we didn't have to think about getting it. But after we eat it. It was just a form of trying to obtain happiness and nothing else. It's the same with everything else you have sex. You strive to get pussy. In the end you go to the club you get it you get back home. Maybe even the sex wouldn't be that good who knows. You know, but after you ejaculate you see that you have run all this time and compromised a lot just to get the object which doesn't make you fulfilled ejaculate. And what? What we desire. When we get it. We feel happy. Not from the outside but from our inside just because thoughts settled, and we can just enjoy ourselves. That's it. I chase objects if the happiness is from within. And in the chocolate and in the pussy and in the money. It's very little happiness there because it's projected through the ego. Right. That's like the main script of the matrix. Yeah. That's the simulation. Yeah. I mean, how can you escape the simulation. Other than, then cutting down the projector of the simulation, whatever you do within the simulation is just the simulation. So really when we're tired about searching for worldly desires. Then we begin searching for spiritual desires. It's even more dangerous. Because at least with worldly desires, you can get them by 10 spiritual desires. This is not by 10. You got to search a lot. But even then when you're when you're fully matured to stop seeking all these spiritual desires even knowing yourself by the outside. You can really mature enough to see that you are the simulation. And the only means to cut off the simulation is attending to that which created the simulation, which is the ego. But then the simulation vanishes and there it is. It was always there. Yeah. How could the simulation be perceived without the special ingredient, which is awareness? No awareness, no simulation. But when there is just awareness, then there's no simulation. That's why it's beautiful. Yeah, turning on the projection. So good. And all the stories. Yeah, when it's turned off, no story can remain. Stories come from thoughts. In Hindu literature or Sanskrit literature, they have these terms for the destruction of the mind and temporary stillness of mind. You can achieve temporary stillness. Basically, you can turn off the projector from time to time by focusing on objects. But even then it's not fully complete, you know, but then your mind is still temporary and it's still and it's a stillness of mind. In a way, it's not destruction of mind, it's stillness of mind, because it keeps the objects alive and it keeps the subject somewhere else, you know. So that's you can get a stillness of the mind by mind, you know, you can focus on the body, you can focus on the breath, you can focus on mind nipples, you can focus on anything to still the mind. But destruction of mind is when you're not stealing it by thought or by object. Destruction is really when you turn the projector off and it just stays and no mind really wants, wants, wants destruction. And that's why inquiry is the correct method. Let's put it this way. Right. There's a good example. Instead of the mainstream spirituality is like this. You're drinking, you're going to the doctor, okay, to the guru. And the guru says, drink this potion without thinking about a monkey. And when you drink it, you think immediately about a monkey. If you want to stop thinking about the monkey, you'll find you'll find you'll need the right guru to tell you. Drink this and think of an elephant. When you think of the elephant, you're not thinking about the monkey anymore. This is self inquiry, you're not thinking about the monkey mind, you have no business with it. You just attend to the elephant the moment the monkey comes into existence. It shouldn't be our only mistake to correct. It's the only mistake. Stopping to steal the mind by mind and stealing completely the mind by attending to our consciousness. Then stillness of mind is a byproduct of the still consciousness. So it's very simple. It's very simple. Right. You can see the room full of objects. The moment we retract and trying to find the source of light by which the room shines and the objects are seen. Then we go towards the light, the objects are nowhere to be found and we remain as that light if we trace it back to the source is a way that you describe it as. So, and then, and then like that. And then the inclusive. Oh, you can see so you can see so but the moment the moment it's more of this. And then. Right. Yeah, that. Kind of makes the makes it bliss. Oh yeah, oh yeah, you, you can, you can truly feel blissful but it's not the bliss we think about because even. I'll talk from my own experience it doesn't have to be this way for everyone but bliss is the last body we have to remain detached from. We got to remain complete because bliss is the last obstacle from my perspective. That keeps you away from clarity. Right. Because bliss is very is like you know intense. It's a beautiful feeling it's a beautiful sensation. You could stay like that forever it feels good, but you still feel clarity is missing clarity is not bliss. Clarity is truth. This is included. But it's not how we think it's not that bliss as an excitement or a state. Do you equate clarity with equanimity equanimity as in as in what like, like, what do you mean by that. Evenness. No, no, it's a byproduct equanimity it would be a byproduct of this of clarity. Yes, you need clarity you need self knowledge without self knowledge there can be clarity that's what clarity is. If you know yourself. That's all that's needed. I would say you know automatically everything else which is true but you're not bothering about everything else since what you see is just you. So you see equanimity and bliss as byproducts of clarity. Yes. Yeah, because you can find a lot of folks sitting with their legs crossed and bliss smiling and feeling good, you can find people on GMT having these experiences. But none of them have clarity and clarity. Bliss comes in the form of silence in the absence of thoughts in the absence of noise. The bliss is you. So you don't really know yourself as bliss, but you get to yourself by this clarity, which you are. It feels beautiful. I was looking forward to it and feels like something something beautiful as a sort of blossoming here and feels nice to see what what this will continue as perhaps we may do further conversations you down for that. Yeah, yeah, why not. Why not. It's very simple. It's very simple. Not having conversations with other people in my videos when I make YouTube lives. I mentioned this I'm talking to myself in the sense that all there is is the self. That's the most beautiful conversation because it's completely silent. And you don't need that you're happy with or without pizza you're happy with or without pussy with or without money happiness doesn't depend on objects. Happiness is our real nature and everyone is entitled to be happy. And I would suggest to everyone that's watching these videos. If you really strive towards happiness, make it seem so by your own efforts. Just like you're striving to win a basketball game with your team and your, your coach sees that you're putting in the effort and and can coach you better. You know, in the same way put the right effort in. But just like the coach will say don't be stupid. And please smart in the same way put the right effort inside, not outside. Yeah. And then the coach is happy because you're listening to the coach the inner guru. What's the best shout out for you is probably your YouTube channel is probably the best place for people to check out. Check you out further is there right. Yeah, if they're interested they can they can have a look at the channel. Yeah. And you offer one on ones also. Yeah, yeah, for those just for those who are serious and somehow disciplined enough to. This is not a message is just that they feel this earnest desire to know themselves that's it. Right. Yeah. Yeah, very important key. Because just like you see, you know, these boxers that come from nothing, and they became they become world champions like Mike Tyson, for example, is not about where you come from. It doesn't matter the, the, the past of the secret doesn't matter all this crap. If you're willing to go all the way within. That's all it's needed. But that's only for those who are tired of chasing pussy chasing money chasing outwards happiness chasing even outward Kundalini spiritual bullshit experiences. Only for those who are serious enough to be honest transparent and see that dude objects haven't helped you so far. So let's try a different way. What you have avoided the most is this gap, which calls you from within this seems like a mystery, but it's you. And everyone wants to escape it because within ego can stay. So all your thoughts will vanish, including your individuality, your personality, it can stay. There, nothing remains other than God or what is. Thanks for coming on to you. Thanks for your invitation. It was great. We did it. There were some people for commenting on the channel for a while saying they wanted this conversation to happen so and I've been watching you also emerge for a bit. And it's been fun watching that and feels good. Feels like something powerful here. It's good. That's great. It can be something other than you anyways. So that's why it's beautiful. Thank you everyone for tuning into the episode. Find all the links below to the channel and his one on ones if you'd like and you can like the video if it brought you value you can comment below with your thoughts about it. You'd like to subscribe to the channel subscribe to DOS channel also for if you'd like to and share the video if you feel like it was resonant and can maybe help others so that's that's it folks. Thanks again. I'm going to pause the recordings and then we'll let's stay in the room for a minute. Cheers. Cheers.