 Good morning, and welcome to this public meeting of the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission This is our annual public hearing on the Commission's agenda and priorities for the next two fiscal years 2020 to 2021 Section 4j of the Consumer Product Safety Act Requires that before the agency establishes an agenda and priorities for the Commission under the X under its jurisdiction That quote the Commission shall conduct a public hearing At on the agenda and priorities and shall provide reasonable opportunity for the submission of comments And that's our purpose for today's public hearing CPS CPSC's mission is greatly aided by the input and the insights of our stakeholders I'm grateful today to our presenters all of our panels that are here today as well as those who have written and submitted written testimony For taking the time and the effort to share your thoughts and your expertise your input is invaluable to this Commission Presenters have been divided into three panels each presenter will have ten minutes to deliver their comments Our secretary Ms. Alberta Mills will keep track of the time for all of us presenters should watch the lights in front of them to track the remaining time the yellow light indicates that you have one minute left in In addition the Office of General Counsel is here to ensure that we remain on track and within the boundaries of this hearing Following all of the presenters and the panelists presentations the Commission will have ten minutes for each question For their questions sorry given time considerations. We are going to just have one round of commission questions per panel After our second panel at approximately 1245 we will break for an hour lunch The record will be kept open for one week following today's hearing So you're welcome to supplement your testimony Or whatever if you want to add to what you have already submitted or anyone else has additional Comments to submit them within the next week following today's hearing So with that we will begin with our first panel this morning Which includes dr. Benjamin Hoffman from the American Academy of Pediatrics Ms. Rachel Weintraub from the Consumer Federation of America mr. William Wallace from Consumer Reports and Ms. Megan DeLong from Connors Legacy Foundation Let me welcome all of you here this morning, and we will look forward to hearing your testimony. Dr. Hoffman will begin with you. Thank you Thank you very much. Good morning acting acting chair Berkel and commissioners Feldman Bayako Adler and Kay. My name is dr. Ben Hoffman I'm here on behalf of the American Academy of Pediatrics or AAP where I currently am the chair of the AAP's Council on Injury Violence and Poison Prevention The AAP appreciates this opportunity, and I personally am very grateful for this chance to make recommendations to the CPSC on its agenda and priorities for the next fiscal year I'll briefly discuss our recommendations which summarize the written comments, which we previously submitted Regarding safe sleep the recent recalls of the rock-and-play sleeper Which a consumer reports article linked to 32 infant deaths and the kids to rocking sleeper underscore what we pediatricians have said for years that inclined infant sleepers are dangerous and have no place in a safe sleep environment Infants should always sleep on their backs on a separate and flat firm surface without any bumpers or pet or additional bedding While we appreciate the recall of these deadly products The CPSC needs to do much more to protect families from preventable tragedies that can that they can experience using these products When parents purchase a product for their baby or child and I hear this on a daily basis in my contact with families for whom I care They assume that those products are safe to use The CPSC sends parents a dangerous message by allowing other inclined sleep products to remain on the market We urge you to eliminate the product category all together so that these deadly products are no longer available In addition, we would ask the CPSC to strengthen it safe sleep messaging by banning crib bumpers There's no evidence that bumper pads prevent injuries and there is a real potential risk of suffocation Strangulation and entrapment the AAP also supports ban on supplement Supplemental mattresses and play yards with non-rigid sides This product poses a suffocation hazard to infants and they also have no place in a safe sleep environment Regarding liquid nicotine. This is a highly toxic product that poses a serious risk of negative health effects and death for children The AAP strongly supported the enactment of the child nicotine poison prevention Act of 2015 Which required the CPSC to enforce a mandatory child restraint packaging standard for liquid nicotine containers including the use of flow restrictors Pediatricians have been frustrated by the slow pace of implementation of this law Including the CPSC's initial confusion about the law's clear requirements for flow restrictors on liquid nicotine containers We are heartened that the commission released new guidance to industry this year outlining the flow restrictor requirement and test for product compliance Across the country however remains easy to purchase flagrantly non-compliant products such as this which have no flow restrictor to reduce the likelihood of deadly spills This product if spilled on a child's arm The liquid nicotine will be absorbed through the skin and could be fatal in very small doses We urge the commission to place a significant emphasis on enforcing this law to swiftly get dangerous products off of store shelves Regarding TV and furniture tip-overs the AAP AAP appreciated CPSC's 2018 advanced notice of proposed rulemaking regarding furniture tip-overs The tragic preventable deaths of children from Ikea dressers should have and could have been prevented While we deeply appreciate the efforts the educational efforts That both the CPSC and Ikea have made using their anchor it and secure it campaigns respectively The best solution is simply to design a safer dresser that will not tip over and harm or kill children The Academy the Academy recently endorsed the stop tip-overs of unstable risky dressers on youth act And we look forward to progress towards a mandatory and robust standard to prevent this hazard AAP also supports a mandatory standard for TV tip-overs to ensure that all customers That all consumers have an opportunity to keep their children safe from this hazard Bondry detergent packets these are uniquely hazardous to children as you're well aware and child exposures to them continue at an alarming rate The AAP has participated in the ASTM process to improve the safety of these products And while we appreciate the progress on a voluntary standard our concern remains that it does not include a number of key elements which we urge we Urge the CPSC to stay involved in the ASTM process and to ensure that follow-up of the implementation of the standard occurs Using appropriate metrics to assess its effectiveness Window coverings window covering cords continue to represent an avoid an avoidable home hazard Infants placed near crib in cribs near windows reach out grab dangling pull cords can pull it into the crib and can become entangled Toddlers playing near window cords are also at risk of entanglement The AAP was very glad to see previous progress on a voluntary standard Recommending cordless window coverings for all stock products However, we urge the CPSC to apply this safety standard to custom blinds as well and to make this voluntary Standard a mandatory one to ensure that all children are protected Drowning remains a leading cause of the leading cause of death for children ages one to four and the second leading cause of death among teens Recognizing the serious threat of drowning and pediatricians role in educating families to prevent it earlier this year We released an updated policy statement on the prevention of drowning and new resources for parents caregivers and others on drowning prevention The AAP has promoted the CPSC's pool safety materials along with other Educational references as part of these efforts and we would we would welcome opportunities to continue to work together to further reduce child fatality toll of drowning Infant walkers these are have been a source of concern among pediatricians for a number of years They can lead to serious injuries from falls downstairs and getting access to objects that would otherwise be out of reach In addition, there is concern that their use delays motor development The AAP has long supported a ban on the manufacturer and sale of these dangerous products and we urge the CPSC to ban them High powered magnet sets the AAP was among the groups that strongly supported a ban of high on high powered magnet sets due to Grave injuries and caused when ingested in multiples to prevent the known harms associated with high powered magnet sets We urge the CPSC to reissue its recall order and establish a strong mandatory safety standard for small rare earth magnet sets without delay a Mandatory standard would prevent the widely recognized child hard harms from small magnets up to and including death before they occur Recreational off-highway vehicles and ATVs or ROVs have become increasingly popular over the past few years for both recreational and work purposes our membership Pediatricians see firsthand the tragedies and disability that can result from children as ROVs as on ROVs as well as ATVs Children are just not developmentally capable of operating these heavy and complex machines The CPSC can and must do more to prevent these incidents in the first place and protect children from further harm from ROVs and ATVs There have been over 15,000 documented ATV related fatalities since the CPSC began collecting data on ATV injuries in 1982 Preventing injuries preventing children from riding on these vehicles is still the most effective method to prevent injury and death The CPSC should expand ATV data collection and also incorporate ROV data to more accurately reflect the ubiquity of these products And to better equip the CPSC with data needed for a public health approach to reducing child health their child fatalities and injuries. I Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to answering your questions Thank you very much. Dr. Hoffman, Ms. Weintraub Acting Chair Berkel commissioners Adler, Bayoko Feldman and Kay I appreciate the opportunity to provide testimony today about the CPSC's agenda and priorities for fiscal year 2020 and 2021 I'm Rachel Weintraub, legislative director in general counsel with Consumer Federation of America The CPSC's mission impacts every American every single day to protect the public from Unreasonable risks of injury or death associated with the use of consumer products the CPSC's mission relies upon Agency action using all of its tools to issue mandatory standards though those have decreased from 12 to 7 Assess civil and criminal penalties Those have decreased as well and work on voluntary standards conduct effective and timely recalls and educate consumers The use of these tools in combination has Historically led to the most effective consumer protections my testimony will be a summary of my Written testimony and will focus on key product safety issues first on inclined sleep We appreciate the work by the American Academy of Pediatrics and Consumer Reports on identifying the harm We appreciate that recalls have occurred But they took a very long time in coming and we're concerned about the efficacy of those recalls and reaching all the consumers Who have these products in their home? We also call for this product category to be withdrawn due to the lack of safe use On window coverings we understand this morning that Canada has come out with their very protective regulation We applaud that regulation last December the US WCMA standard came out and for the first time Addressed that some products would be cordless. This was progress, but not enough all window coverings need to be cordless It is possible It is technically feasible and we urge for the US Voluntary standard to be harmonized with the stronger more effective Canadian standard We know in the US based on our initial research that there's confusion Especially with online retailers with online Corded products being available for sale with a lack of clear warning. So the role of CPSC is imperative here They need to we urge you to stay engaged to monitor the marketplace and ensure that the current voluntary standard Is is complied with on flame retardants and consumer products and crumb rubber We appreciate the CPSC as Has voted to move forward on our petition urging the CPSC to adopt mandatory Standards to protect consumers from the health hazards caused by the use of some organo halogen flame retardants We applaud the convening of the chap and urge the Commission to take significant steps to reduce the risk posed by these chemicals on Crumb rubber the Commission must prioritize its research and complete its work on the safety of the surfacing on The internet of things we urge the CPSC CPSC to communicate what the agency is doing to protect consumers from the risks posed by connected consumer products at last year's May hearing CFA identified product risks and recommended that such risks posed by connected products be addressed in the design of the products While mandatory standards are preferable CFA CPSC and many others are involved in voluntary standard activities We urge the Commission to create an interagency working group with the FTC NIST and other relevant agencies with clear goals and deadlines while we understand that some interagency communications are occurring and Commissioner K released a white paper. We need more clarity and Enforcement actions are necessary to protect consumers We know of reports that an electronic scooters Bluetooth module was hacked and that the hacker was able to control the breaking and acceleration Of the scooter the CPSC must take enforcement action to protect consumers and liquid nicotine The child nicotine poison prevention act became law in January of 2016 This is an incredibly important law that the CPSC has the authority to ensure that the packaging of liquid nicotine complies with the poison prevention Poison prevention act But we know if there's product on the market that don't comply and we urge immediate enforcement actions on electric scooters Similarly, the growth of them and the associated injuries is profound. We urge the agency to release data publicly educate consumers take action to investigate and track These incidents to ultimately reduce them and protect consumers on high powered magnet sets We were alarmed by the US Court of Appeals for the 10th circuit's decision that struck down the CPSC's Magnet rule that we supported very strongly already more rare earth magnets are entering the market creating his hidden hazards That could severely kill or injure consumers Specifically children who swallow swallow more than one of them We urge that the commission immediately promulgate a strong mandatory standard to protect children from the harms posed by these products and Carefully monitor the marketplace and incidents on furniture tip-overs According to your agency's data every two weeks a child dies a result as a result of a piece of furniture Appliance or television falling on him or her further each year more than 38,000 children are injured as a result of these pieces of furniture tipping over The ASTM standard for furniture must be strengthened the CPSC must move Expeditiously on its research and on an effective mandatory standard We support legislation such as the Sturdiac to require the CPSC to promulgate a strong mandatory standard That will reflect real-world use and make furniture stable from its from the beginning from its design and prevent tip-overs on laundry packets while the voluntary standard addresses the packaging Container of the packets the burst strength and the flavor and includes warning labels The standard should also require child resistant packaging for all packages Individually wrap packets address the design color of the packets address the composition of the packets themselves and ensure that the warning labels Properly properly in form of the risk We further urge the CPSC to carefully monitor the incident data and ensure that incidents are decreasing on Recreational of highway vehicles the CPSC staff is aware of 335 deaths and 506 injuries related to ROV crashes from 2003 to 2013 but that data is already six years old CFA and its partners due to this lag have documented 652 ROV fatalities between 2013 and 2019 we've documented 17 deaths in 2019 alone and 150 fatalities in 2018 the highest recorded annual fatality count that we have ever documented in a year These numbers are likely under estimates and will likely grow as we gather more information We are concerned about the increasing number of ROV related fatalities the increasing number of ROV recalls and that more effective action is not being taken for known fire hazards Caused by ROVs the voluntary standard for these vehicles must be Re-evaluated to address the fire hazard and we urge the CPSC to issue injury and fatality statistics For ROVs every single year this data is critical to reducing risks posed by these vehicles on all terrain vehicles CPSC has documented a dire statistic that more than 15,000 ATV related fatalities occurred between 1982 and 2017 The CPSC must prioritize the issue of ATV safety We urge the CPSC to complete the ATV rulemaking which should analyze the hazards posed to children the Adequacy of ATV safety training and training materials and efforts to ensure that children are not riding inappropriate ATVs and we urge the commission to be a strong voice in opposing the operation of OHVs on roads and to improve ATV death data by including how many deaths occur on private versus public roads and reduce the significant time lags in releasing ATV death and injury data on section 6b of the consumer product safety act Sixth section 6b is one of the most anti-consumer Antitransparency provisions of existing law the impact of this provision is vast it limits the ability of the Commission to Communicate critical information to the public it means that too often consumers are unwittingly Using products that the CPSC and manufacturers know pose safety hazards The reach is so vast it impacts the ability of CPSC's research on lead kits in 2007 on furniture stability in 2016 the CPSC identified problems but could not give specific information Naming names Communicating information about specific products on the market that don't meet safety standards On recall effectiveness the vast majority of consumers who own a recalled product never find out about the recall We urge the CPSC to prioritize this issue and to think about This issue as recalls are announced and negotiated on safer products We urge the Commission to announce what they're doing to improve the plan We appreciated the opportunity to discuss this issue with you and we look forward to working with you on all of these issues Including CPSIA implementation And other issues in the coming years. Thank you very much for your consideration. Thank you very much. Mr. Wallace Thank you very much to the Commission On behalf of consumer reports the independent nonprofit member organization Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify today about the CPSC's agenda and priorities It's a core part of CR's purpose to identify marketplace hazards and to seek to improve product safety We assess safety risks. We investigate their impact on consumers and we inform the CPSC and the public about them All on a data-driven basis We push for safety standards to protect consumers from the risk of injury Including both mandatory and voluntary standards and those voluntary standards should be reached through an open balance and consensus-driven process We support and defend the critical role of the CPSC and not just for the sake of consumer safety But also for a fairer marketplace where cutting corners on safety doesn't pay Day in and day out and often behind the scenes the people of the CPSC work to protect consumers They do so from hazards and thousands of different product types CPSC staff they possess remarkable skills and expertise and they have enormous power to shape the marketplace and make it safer by conducting research Educating the public identifying hazards and reducing the risks of harm They also do so through pursuing compliance and enforcement actions as the law and their experience dictate While some of this work is visible publicly Most of it is not and often it's underappreciated So as someone in the US marketplace with consumer products in my home and with loved ones who use consumer products Thank You CPSC staff at the same time the bigger picture is clear The CPSC lacks many of the tools and resources that we need to carry out all that it is capable of doing We have said previously and we have communicated to Congress that the CPSC should receive far greater funding and staff To implement more robust programs to prevent consumer harm Glad the chairman and other commissioners are making the same case Because right now the agency is not currently resourced at a level reflecting that product safety truly is a federal priority Nevertheless given its indispensable public health and safety mission the CPSC must make effective use of the tools it does have To us this means commission members and agency staff should first Advocate vocally for stronger safety protections and communicate key safety messages clearly and frequently Second set a high bar for industry safety culture proactive safety measures and responses to safety issues third push voluntary standard setting groups to address Expeditiously and completely known hazards and gaps in protection that leave people at risk and fourth retain the credible use of mandatory standards legal action to force compliance civil penalties at a level that serves as a deterrent Those are the basics This is not to say these activities are easy. They often are not But in large part they form the foundation of the CPSC's work Today we urge the Commission to always build on that foundation and go beyond the basics We urge the Commission to focus on actions to protect the public against unreasonable risks of injury associated with consumer products The CPSC should push publicly and privately for companies and industry organizations to take actions. They may not want to undertake The agency repeatedly and consistently should urge companies and industry associations to reach the high bar It sets for safety and require them to do so when they do not act on their own The agency should ensure recalls happen as quickly and as completely as possible And are as easy as possible for consumers to participate in The agency should increase public availability of what has been agreed to under a corrective action plan and Routinely post monthly corrective action plan reports on CPSC gov It should hold companies accountable when they don't live up to their obligations under a recall or are ineffective at getting unsafe products off the market and out of homes and The agency should set mandatory requirements when companies do not act voluntarily to set sufficiently strong standards Now turning to just a handful of specific matters and in keeping with the overarching recommendations that we make We urge the CPSC to prioritize several hazards that consumers can and do encounter Around the home that are hidden or that may be unknown or poorly understood while still posing a substantial risk CR is continuing its investigation into the dangers of furniture tip over incidents to young children The terrible toll on children has become a call to action for us and over the past two years CR has conducted extensive research analysis of incident and injury data and Comparative testing of a cross-section of the marketplace to determine whether a given model is more or less likely to tip over relative to other models Based on our investigation the industry's voluntary standard leaves too many children at risk Our testing has demonstrated that it is feasible for dressers at all price points to pass a more rigorous test In our analysis of the injury and fatality data shows why it is necessary for furniture manufacturers to meet a stronger standard While it is essential where possible to help avoid tip over incidents by securing dressers to walls We recognize that anchoring furniture is not always an option for tenants or those not handy with tools Fundamentally it is the industry's responsibility to ensure safer more stable dressers as safety should not rely on Consumer skill at anchoring a dresser to a wall as a result CR and proud partnership with all of the parents who are painstakingly Turning their tragedies into progress towards safer dressers is calling on the CPSC to set a strong mandatory safety standard Which among other things would allow the agency to enforce the rules and more easily gain industry cooperation for recourse We appreciate the Commission's recent move to include in the agency's budget request its plans for CPSC staff to complete a an NPR briefing package addressing furniture tip-overs during FY 2020 We also were pleased to hear commissioners comments at the March 13th CPSC meeting regarding the seriousness of CSU tip-over hazard and the broad recognition by the Commission that the furniture industry is not taking fast enough or strong enough action To improve the voluntary standard for CSU stability However recognizing that developing section seven and nine mandatory standards can take several years CR also continues to urge furniture companies to take immediate action and we urge you to do the same We are pushing for the voluntary industry standard overseen by ASTM International to protect more children and cover more dressers It is of the utmost importance for commissioners and CPSC staff to actively support and encourage members of the furniture industry to back These improvements to the voluntary standard. We thank you if you have done so or if you are doing so Separately to help ensure the fastest possible implementation of a stronger standard We're also supporting passage of the sturdy act to help prevent avoidable tip-over tragedies on the compliance and enforcement side chairman Bergl announced on February 27th that the CPSC will now consider dressers defective If they are within the scope of the current voluntary standard ASTM F 2057 17 but fail to meet its provisions and we'll investigate and seek corrective action at corrective action as appropriate As we've said previously, it's an open secret that there are dressers on the market that don't stay upright when put through basic testing And yet there was not a single recall in 2018 for an unstable dresser We expected recalls of dangerous dressers to occur shortly following this announcement and we are concerned that did not happen It is the job of the CPSC and manufacturers to keep all dangerous dressers off the market and out of homes and Accordingly we urge the CPSC to redouble its efforts to secure recalls and take Appropriate enforcement action related to both those dressers that do not meet the current F 2057 standard as well as the IKEA 8 drawer Hemnes dresser which is tied to the death of Connor DeLong and yet has not been recalled In addition CR periodically tests and rates generators including portable generators and we're exploring potential tests to account for portable generators carbon monoxide emissions We also promote safety by helping consumers use these products safely including in stories published on CR We appreciate the extensive and ongoing work by the CPSC and CPSC staff to examine the risk of carbon monoxide poisoning as The incident data make tragically clear though education and warning labels are not enough performance requirements are needed Ultimately there should be a standard that applies across the marketplace That makes it easier to require to recall non-compliant products and more effectively protect consumers We support the CPSC's ongoing research to evaluate the effectiveness of the two voluntary standards We urge it to Continue and to be finalized on an independent basis With respect to the products commonly known as inclined sleepers While it was long overdue Are pleased that Fisher price and kids to have recalled their inclined sleep products This action followed calls for a recall by several safety advocacy groups including CR As well as the AAP We urge all consumers with these products to immediately stop using In addition Fisher price and Mattel and kids to misled parents and caregivers by marketing the products as safe for sleep And they owe it to their customers to give them full refunds rather than partial refunds or company vouchers That should be the case regardless of how long ago the product was bought We urge the Commission to push the companies to provide the companies with these full refunds Finally, we like the AAP and our colleagues at other consumer groups Urge the Commission to help get all the remaining inclined sleep products off the market To push for the elimination of this category of products overall, thank you Thank you very much. Mr. Wallace miss DeLong Morning Commission. Thank you for allowing me to speak today. My name is Megan DeLong I'm an educator a speech therapist a child development specialist a graduate student social work and More importantly the founder and president of Connors Legacy Foundation I'm here today to speak with you Representing Connors Legacy Foundation as well as parents against tip-overs I'd like to take a moment to thank you for this opportunity to address all of you today regarding the epidemic of furniture tip-overs I'm mother of two children Conner and Caleb whom I adopted through the Department of Children Families in 2016 and 2017 a mother's day May 14th 2017 just four days after my second son's adoption was finalized my family was changed forever when my two-year-old son Conner tipped His dresser over and subsequently died the next evening as a result of his injuries. I Did everything that I knew as a parent as a professional to make my home safe But I did not know about anchoring furniture. I Had social services in my home on a monthly basis for two years and my home passed three separate home studies to ensure the safety of Our home environment they didn't know about furniture anchors I had done what I and social services had deemed effective to provide a safe and loving home for my children I never knew that my family would become a statistic and a long line of families that preceded us In enduring this tragedy I have become not only aware but an expert and what could have been done or what? Circumstances may have saved my son's life that day as consumers We believe that the items we purchase and put into our homes are safe I have learned a lesson that no parent should ever have to learn I have learned that there is no such thing as a mandatory safety standard for furniture and that the clothing storage unit that killed my son Meets the inadequate voluntary standards that have been developed by ASTM The statistics that surround furniture tip-overs are astounding According to the data collected by the CPSC a furniture tip-over happens every 17 minutes an average of 15,600 emergency room visits are due to tip-over furniture tip-overs and one child dies every 10 days Between 2000 and 2017 542 fatalities have been reported 80 percent of those which is 450 of those fatalities are children Charles Dastro states that a social problem exists when an influential group asserts that a certain Social condition affecting a large number of people is a problem that can be remedied by collective action This is not only a social problem, but it's a social epidemic Furniture tip-overs have the potential to impact every home in America yet to date We have not been able to come up with an effective collecting collective action to remedy this issue There are several areas of concern when I think about how furniture tip-overs affect our nation as a whole The first and foremost concern is the industry's unwillingness to engage a meaningful collective action to develop standards that are commensurate with a child up to and including 72 months of age According to the CDC a five-year-old child in the 95th percentile weighs on average 64 pounds in the last six months There have been at least two tip-over incidents that involved a child between the ages 60 and 72 months of age While these incidents were not fatal The CSU is involved still tipped and child was still injured According to the scope of the current standard is intended to reduce injuries and deaths of children up to and including 72 months of age hence these cases should be considered as reliable rationale, but they are not at this point Although chairman Burke Burkle stated in our keynote speech at expo So that the CPSC supports an increased weight of 60 pounds in a lower height threshold to 70 27 inches consumer advocacy groups such as ourselves are still receiving pushback from the industry That are unwilling to adapt the voluntary standard to fit this criteria There seems to be a constant holding pattern pattern in which industry is unable to understand the perspective of consumer groups and parents And they question about the validity of incidents that have occurred to support this new rationale. This concerns me How will the CPSC effectively monitor and standard a standard that is not mandatory? Although the current standard is inadequate at least one child my son has been killed by a dresser that meets the voluntary standard My belief that the CPSC should allocate funds to ensure that furniture manufacturers are indeed producing and manufacturing products that at the very least Meet the insufficient voluntary standard I fully and actively support the new legislation for the sturdy act and would urge the CPSC to be a strong voice For the support of this legislation as well My next area of concern is in regards to the effectiveness of recalls in the recall process Although there have been family have been reported fatalities with particular items It is unfathomable that these products are not always still in the market, but being marketed as children's items on showroom floors In addition, it is important to take into consideration the effectiveness of a recall Although an item may not have been recalled It does not mean the products are finding their way out of consumers homes Had I been aware of the furniture recall that took place in 2016 my son would still be here today As an early childhood development specialist and a parent that spent two years of social services in my home on a monthly basis I was unaware of the recall if I was unaware how many other Americans were We need to improve the scope of how we're informing consumers of the dangerous products And this includes promoting cyber products that cup cup in a more effective manner I'm aware and understand that 6B has tied the CPSC's hands when it comes to recalling dangerous products Which is why I feel that is imperative to that funding is used to repeal 6B in effort to keep our children safe Our organizations are happy to be community leaders for the anchor it campaign However, since its establishment in 2015 There have been more injuries and fatalities that have occurred and the In for and the information that is available is not fully reflective of these new statistics Many of the PSAs and social media posts have been beneficial, but there are others that could use some improvement For example the video of the anchor at mom's which is extremely impactful, but it gives the consumers the illusion that it stopped at those three That's not the case The reality is that there are many more families that have been shattered since that time I would also like to mention the effectiveness of some of the social media posts and tweets as a professional working in social Services with a background in childhood development and a parent who has lost a child I feel it's important to note that the visual Representations that are accompanying the content is Minimizing the reality and impact of what life actually looks like following an injury or fatality due to a furniture tip over It is my belief that we need to give consumers a real glimpse of what can happen when appropriate steps are not taken To ensure that their homes are safe I do not feel that masking the message with rainbows and butterflies is the best way to make this issue a reality for families I would like to see funding in the coming fiscal years to vote updating the anchor at campaign So that provides a more accurate and effective message for consumers Lastly, I would like to briefly comment on the declined amendment to section 104 presented by Commissioner K and Commissioner Adler I would also like to Discuss the proposed Rulemaking presented by Commissioner Feldman and Commissioner Bayako I understand the reasoning for negative votes to amend section 104 as this is not a universal change It would affect all CSUs, but it would at least force the industry to adhere to a standard and thus protect some children I am encouraged however By the proposed action by Commissioner Feldman and Commissioner Bayako to move the issue of furniture tip over soon NPR in the coming fiscal years After having a phone conversation with Commissioner Feldman I'm hopeful that we have the CPSC support To make this a priority as furniture tip overs affecting the sounding number of our most vulnerable Vulnerable population our children again every 17 minutes of furniture tip over happens every 10 days a child dies This is unacceptable in a society that has the means to do better when we know better. We do better Let's work together to do better I'm here today as a consumer advocate, but more importantly to be a voice for my son Connor and all the other children Who have fallen victim to this tragedy? I dedicate my time knowledge experience and passion to educate our communities to push for stronger standards nationwide I hope that the budget of 2020 and 2021 allows the CPSC to make furniture tip overs a priority In an effort to help ensure the safety of children by working to eliminate furniture tip overs Thank you again for your time and your willingness to hear my concerns today Thank you all very much. I will begin the Commission's 10 minute rounds of questions per Member of the Commission I'll begin my question with dr. Hoffman. Thank you for being here and thank you for your comments As you may know we have a week excuse me a monthly call with a AP and we're constantly striving to find ways In which we can partner with a AP because we certainly Understand your access to Young families someone needs to move We understand the access you have to young families new families new parents and So we're constantly looking for ways to partner and I guess I just want to reiterate that again this morning publicly that We have a lot of safety messages and you mentioned the pool safely I just came back from the National Drowning Prevention Association meeting and they were talking about a AP and how They hope they can engage AP even further on that on the drowning prevention issue, so I just want to Tell you how much I appreciate our relationship, but I do hope that we can find ways to partner in that we can Impart our safety message to the AP that can be shared with parents because you all are on the front lines And you have access to parents I do want to comment and ask a question about the inclined sleepers because that is something the agency has made a Big priority and we have many different aspects going on regarding this issue as One of you mentioned that we're not free to talk about but I do want to ask a question because there has been some clarity Some issues about the clarity and the use of inclined sleepers Oftentimes as we've talked to parents they say well my pediatrician told me to use this device for gastric reflux or pyloric stenosis or some other issue Has that been clarified within the agency because I think the message needs to within your organization because we need to clarify that message Chair Burkle, thank you for that question And I want to reiterate as well that we the academy appreciates the the monthly calls and the opportunity to collaborate Because we recognize that this is not something that can be done you know easily at all and that you know developing broad coalitions to impact and Child health and do good things for kids is is imperative Regarding the issue of the inclined sleepers the academy has been very clear in its policy around what safe sleep looks like There is you know, there are always going to be people who have different opinions I think the science is very clear from both the North America Society for pediatric Capitology gastroenterology and nutrition And the the primary scientific literature on reflux for kids that actually sleeping at that incline That that sleeping at an incline is inherently worse for reflux There are however still a number of providers Who have differing beliefs? We work very hard to ensure that our membership are practicing within the best With the best available evidence and we will continue to do so and we would appreciate the opportunity to collaborate further With the Commission as well as partners across the community to help that message get out there Thank you very much. I appreciate that Ms. Weintraub and also dr. Hoffman you mentioned laundry packets and your concern with regards to measuring data Can you elaborate a little bit on that? My understanding is the voluntary standard process has been successful in pushing some In getting to a point where we have seen a decrease But what are your specific concerns with regards to measuring the data and making sure we are making progress? Sure? well first there are Vastly too many incidents still that occur from exposures to laundry packets and we want those numbers to go down significantly There are different ways to measure Success and we want the numbers of exposures themselves not over some rate based on the number of packets out there the AAP has been a leader in in reaffirming that the public health methodology for determining success in eliminating whether it's a disease or a Product safety risk is by that actual number of exposures And while those numbers are going down slightly to some degree. We want those numbers to go down much more To go down at a greater rate Thank you Is there anything that? Within the voluntary standards and either one of you can comment on this that you think should be In in addition to counting and the way we count or the way it's being counting rate versus actual numbers Is there anything else you mentioned some other the formula? What kinds of other things are being discussed in the voluntary standards? Um, so there are issues that? CFA CRA peak is in danger and others have brought up throughout the process that are not currently on the table But that we hope will be considered as the process continues that is looking at as you mentioned the the chemical ingredients of the packets themselves, but also at the At what makes the packets of appeal and of interest the color The texture etc. Also if the packets are Individually covered so that cannot be seen That's another example So looking at the full range of tools at our disposal to see if those things would not only Eliminate the exposure, but when there are exposures eliminate Eliminate the consequences of that exposure Thank you very much. Miss DeLong first of all, let me say thank you for being here for all of your advocacy on behalf of Connor There is no greater Tragedy than the loss of a child So thank you very much for being here and for your courage To take up Connor's legacy in this very productive way to help other families and parents avoid such a tragedy as you've You've encountered I Would you mentioned and we've talked about this in our Pats meeting as well you talked about When you prepared your house because you knew you had we're gonna have young children How can we get the tip-over message to be ingrained with what would have helped your situation to help you raise awareness? What peace are is missing here? When you think about a family that has children as a Well as most families are working families when I came home every day I didn't turn on the news as most families do while you're preparing dinner, and you have young children Disney Junior goes on your television You know so having those messages somewhere And things that you do maybe maybe more prevalence on the radio You know as I'm driving to work in the morning. I I listen to the radio. So thinking about Real life what people with children really do? I don't have time to watch the news. That is not a luxury that I had with two young toddlers so Whatever was being done with the secure and incorrect campaign. I didn't know about it until Connor had already died and For me if social workers who are placing children in homes don't know who does So we need to educate those who educate and If we if we can't get those people to reach our general consumers who wouldn't typically Get that information As I said, I work with I work with social services You know those families are families that didn't have even the information that I had given my profession So who's gonna reach them? What is the community outreach that we can do to really push this forward? But what we're doing isn't enough and as I said, you know the social media campaigns It's really masking what the real problem is if I see something with a unicorn in a rainbow I keep on scrolling it has no relevance to me But people seeing the real life of what actually happens As I as I said in a safe kids presentation. I did we need to scare the pants off of people Because the people aren't scared of the actual reality if they think it can't happen to them. They're not gonna do anything So we we need to reach those people and reach them in a real way That this is a real child that this really happened to in your community And if we can't do that You know most importantly anchoring it is important Making safe furniture that doesn't tip over is important But we have to educate people in the most effective way And really finding ways to educate people who educate other people Will be something that I think will reach a lot of people Thank you very much, and I will say my time is just about up, but I did publicly express and privately express to Congresswoman Shikowsky support for the sturdy act you know we offered technical assistance from this agency to that office and Look forward to seeing some legislation that could possibly address this issue and then Provide I think a level playing field as well as a common Statute for for the industry and for consumers as well, so thank you all very much for being here, and I'll call on Commissioner Edler Thank you very much madam chairman I want to thank all of the people who've given testimony so dr. Hoffman I would like to come back to Crib bumpers just for a second if I might because I just saw a headline which I tried to print out the article I got was a headline, but it says our crib bumpers safe experts say not even those breathable mesh ones should be used And as you know, that's one of the issues that it's under consideration at the Commission We're moving forward on addressing the hazards of crib bumpers and one of the issues that has popped up time and time again Is whether the mesh crib bumpers provide a measure of safety such that if we were to take the step of banning them That maybe those should be allowed on the market I'm wondering if you have any additional information you could share with us about the hazards of the mesh crib bumpers Yeah, thank you for that question commissioner Adler. I think we need to be honest We need more data and I would approach it from the standpoint that the the absence of data does not assume efficacy and safety I Firmly believe that since the the new crib standard was put into place That the need that the the need for bumpers has been Essentially eliminated. I think that it is a product that continues to be sold because of a belief and a concern from parents that is based on Fear and concern but not borne out in terms of what we actually see The risk of arm and leg entrapment is minimal and even if that did occur, you know any potential injuries while injuries I grant you are are easily addressed. We can fix those things Until we until we can be a hundred percent certain that a mesh bumper would not be a hazard I would urge us to not use them You hit one of my favorite phrases absence of evidence is not evidence of absence Which I think was Carl Sagan's line, but I'm not sure I did have one additional question Last year we heard a lot of concern raised about baby boxes and honestly in the last Year or so I haven't heard that much about baby boxes Do you have any update to share with us about risks of baby boxes? So I don't have any specific data and information on part of that is there again a lack of data The programs continue to be rolled out I hear on a regular basis about hospitals and municipalities that are that are thinking about rolling out programs This is another product. I believe two years ago. I said that they scare me to death They continue to scare me to death and until we can demonstrate clearly that they are safe I Would urge us not to use them. There are practical effective safe alternatives and I would go back to the work of cribs for kids at my institution we can purchase a Portable crib that meets all of the appropriate consumer product safety standards For the same cost that we would be able to access a box and we know how to use that crib correctly We don't know where you're supposed to put a box We don't know how long an infant is safe in a box There are many better alternatives, and I see the boxes honestly as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist Thank you very much and miss wine Trubb You obviously have observed that we've completed a the recall on Fisher price, and I Look back on it, and I'm trying to learn some lessons for the agency about how to approach risks like that both with respect to the Specific product and into the category of products, and I'm wondering just generally speaking Do you have any thoughts or comments or feedback for us about at least your observations with respect to the Fisher price? recall Thank you for that question. I do I think it took a very long time in coming after two warnings the first warning about a year ago Which was very vague talked about inclined sleep products that most people don't know what that is Because of six B. Did not name the product The number of deaths is different than what we know now, so I think that That comment over a year ago, and then the ultimate recall it took a long time And I have concerns about the efficacy of the recall a recall is better than no recall Certainly more people will find out about a recall than they will about a warning but the details of both the Fisher price and the kids to recalls are concerning because it The first what the consumer needs to do in order to obtain the recall to cut the product out to Send it or send a picture. I think sending a picture is better But still it requires a lot of consumer action for busy parents with babies Those are difficult things to do Further the fact that only a consumer who bought it within six months, which was already many months after an initial warning Only those pair Consumers will get a full refund and a lack of clarity About how much a consumer will get for older products I think all of these are not based on the information that we've learned And what marketing experts will tell us about what is our essential Ingredients for an effective recall to get these products out of people's home to make consumers whole to encourage them to get these products Out of their homes out of contact with their children So I think we have a lot more to do and I hope that the agency will rigorously monitor Monitor the compliance rates. I hope that this information will be communicated broadly And I hope that if it seems that the numbers are quite low that more will be done to increase effectiveness Thank you very much for that answer And I didn't want to come back very quickly to your comments about ATVs I think there are times when because ATVs have been around for a while and the fatalities have sort of continued that people tend to forget just how Dangerous these products are and I know you've been waging a I would say lonely crusade But certainly a crusade to try to convince localities and municipalities and states not to permit ATVs on paved roads And it is my sense having tried in my own fashion to assist your efforts that it's it's a losing battle Do you have a sense of where things are with respect to? legislation in municipalities states localities about ATVs on roads this has been a very difficult difficult effort. We appreciate your Your support We continue to send letters whenever we hear about a municipality or a county or a town the the efforts are incompatible with even the warning labels on the vehicles But we do not see vast amounts of success We also have the hubris to know that a group from Washington, DC is not the best messenger in a Small town in many places throughout the country. So we're constantly seeking for effective Partners in communities to articulate to articulate the hazards and to make clear that this is these are not safe These are not safe decisions and these are decisions that will potentially cost the municipality Because of the deaths and injuries from these things. So we have a lot more work to do We continue working on this every day in sending letters and seeking And seeking partners to communicate that these these efforts are going in the wrong direction Thank you very much. Ms. DeLong. I want to first of all commend you for your strength of character your courage in coming forward I did want to make an observation about the group parents against tip-overs Because in my view, this is a model for citizen action. You have a powerful message. You deliver it passionately You do your homework you actually come in with statistics and thoughtful reasonable approaches I wish all groups had the same approach to life and to addressing tragedies that that your group does But I did want to ask you and mr. Wallace You've observed the ASTM development on tip-overs And it is my sense that we've not been getting a lot of cooperation from the industry members And I'm curious what your observations are about the level of Cooperation that we've been getting from the industry and the voluntary standards proceeding so I've been an ASTM meetings and on task group meetings Since our last full meeting in November Where it was my understanding that we were going to be working towards Task groups that focused on dynamic testing that focused on the weight issue the height issue But once those task groups dispersed We're finding the industry is backpedaling they're not What they're saying the direction we were going to go is not what's happening in those task groups oftentimes Certain members of the task group will meet independently and then bring information back to the actual task group meeting So not everybody has had a chance to weigh in on those items And in respect to the most most recent Call which was right after chairman Burkle's An at keynote speech There was a lot of pushback there was You know questions as to Did this dresser was there even a dresser that met the voluntary standard and oh it was just one case I happened to be on that call and that one case might not be much to them But it's a lot to me and it's probably a lot to the next person So under you know understanding that we have to come together We have to we have to meet at the table and I know that everybody wants to We we do not want to hurt children that is not everybody's goal But what can we do to create something that is better? and what we're finding is That they're not that they're not willing to hear the from the consumers the the real rationale of you know how children interact with dressers They want to argue that the 60 pound weight won't make a difference because it's not how a child uses the furniture But whose job is it? I'm not an engineer But we know that the products can be made safe. We know that so why do we not make a standard that is commensurate with that? and the most redundant argument is up to and including 72 months of age I Apologize my time's expired mr. Wallace. I'm not going to be able to get to you, but thank you so much for that answer Thank You commissioner K Thank You madam chair, and thank you to the panelists for testifying This the long I'll pick it back up with you I wanted to thank you for coming in in particular because obviously these are just such Difficult moments, and it takes so much courage, and it really does make a difference for us and I know that it can sometimes seem discouraging But today is an example in a different product category of how this work pays off And I'm referencing what miss wine Trob talked about earlier, which I'll come back to her on which is window coverings Such a major announcement today by our partner north of the border in Canada to finally address this hazard once and for all and That would not have happened without a parent without Linda Kaiser and her efforts almost two decades ago Beginning this and so this does work It just makes it may not go as you plan It may not be the result you want in the timeline that you're looking for But it's necessary to have that kind of advocacy to you and to all the parents So thank you for sticking with it. We'll continue to do our part But we do rely as Commissioner Adler said on your work in the voluntary standards to we really appreciate that I did want to Talk to and this I can give mr. Wallace an opportunity to address Commissioner Adler's question But I wanted to talk about something you mentioned with regard to non-compliant product on the marketplace Are you aware today and I recognize that the testing that CR did is not to compliance It was comparative testing But my sense of the testing is there's enough that was done that one could deduce compliance or a close proximity of Compliance or at least have a lead as to whether certain units would fail the standard Are you aware of products today that are currently on the market that you believe that CR believes fail the current standard? There are products on the market today that that tip over far too easily and One could deduce that they may not meet the F20 57 17 standard As you said our testing is comparative, but We saw some failures that were Stark and has that information been well, certainly you've published that information Is there enough that you believe that's publicly available for the agency to follow up on or do you think further? discussions between the two organizations are necessary I think the agency has Plenty to work with from the information that we've published however if there's additional information that We may not know would be helpful and we should provide we absolutely will do so got it Thank you, and one of the areas that was touched on briefly missed along you mentioned it the what we call 104 the 104 process and It really the credit really goes to Commissioner Adler for offering the amendment. I was just a sidekick on this one In the time that the amendment went down We've had a chance to delve even further into these issues and the difference between 104 rulemaking and what we call seven and nine rulemaking and I wouldn't give up so easily on the 104 process for this I recognize that it doesn't cover all the products, but I don't think that was the point The point and I don't want to speak for Commissioner Adler He's spoken very well for himself on this topic at least my view of the point was to show more quickly That there is a technical solution to this problem And why it's relevant is if we're proceeding under 104 if the Commission adopted this approach We would much more quickly demonstrate publicly on a technical basis that this problem could be solved So while it's all well and good and certainly It is good that we got the rulemaking back on track under seven and nine If we proceed under that track versus 104. We are actually delaying the staff releasing publicly It's technical conclusions that will show this problem could be solved And so that is why we found the sewer luring because it would drive the marketplace to change and it would drive It would reduce or eliminate some of the arguments in the voluntary standards process of why this technically could not be done So I think it's great that we're moving under seven and nine, but I would not give up on the 104 process I don't think we're gonna give up on the 104 process I hope my colleagues would reconsider that and we'll obviously take that under consideration in a different form Miss wine tribe obviously window coverings major major announcement today I would offer congratulations to you to AAP To consume reports for all the work you all have done So is there any reason why the US? Voluntary standard tomorrow cannot adopt the exact same technical requirement. Are you aware of any hurdle to this? I would say no I also want to reiterate something that you said that's incredibly important for this and other issues that behind Every single one of the issues that any of us have discussed or have ever worked on there are courageous Articulate parents who have turned their tragedy into advocacy with one goal in preventing other Families from going through what they have done and it is an incredible honor to work with these Families and they really dedicate everything on every issue that I've mentioned There are people who have made this choice to advocate So all of these issues rely on their very strong shoulders on Window blinds Absolutely, the voluntary standard in the US is a partial solution and even in terms of being a solution There are concerns that we have we urge the voluntary standard process to make all products whether custom or stock Cordless and we think that the Canadian model is a very good one We also think that it's necessary for it to be a mandatory standard so that there's clear unequivocal enforcement authority by the agency to ensure that products on the market meet this standard and The standard is going forward We have a huge challenge and as does Canada to make sure that the products that are in people's home now that don't yet Meet that standard that they don't pose risk to children's as well. So it is an incredibly Incredibly important step. I hope that the US will follow we need for all Window blinds to be cordless as you know, my my colleague Carol Pollock Nelson has said it doesn't matter to a child whether a Window blind is stock or custom there was a cord it can pose a risk and that is what we need to address Great, and I assume we can count on your continued participation in the voluntary standard that of miss Paul Nelson And all the other Advocates and of course the staff to make this happen because I don't see any Technical reason why tomorrow they can't just announce the change They don't even need to meet as far as I'm concerned They can just publish a new standard for ballot that mirrors Canada and the problem would be solved Dr. Hoffman I want to get back to the injury metrics on Laundry packets and I think it was your colleague Dr. Smith Who made a point about how the public health community has measured for more than a hundred years? these types of Incidents and he said look at Zika You wouldn't take a lot of comfort if the rate of Zika cases per mosquito went down You'd only take comfort if the actual number of Zika cases went down And so I'm concerned that this issue has been allowed to linger for as long as it has and what I'm wondering is and miss Wantra if you can speak to this as well probably how is this happened that this has gone on this long that this Basic metric which really guides how you evaluate the effectiveness of the entire standard How has this been allowed to proceed in such an anomalous fashion relative to the way public health communities? measure effectiveness of public health efforts I Really appreciate that question Commissioner Kay I think it's been allowed to happen because the narrative has not been driven by public health the narrative has been driven by industry And if they are allowed to If the conversation is allowed to proceed from the standpoint of how many packets are sold We will lose that battle It is not an issue of how many packets are sold one child suffering an injury is infinitely more than we should have and that is just not acceptable so shifting that narrative back towards the issue of Health and public health is what has to happen and not allowing industry to drive it and which to be clear That's actually the normal metric and narrative right that is not the anomalous situation This is the anomalous situation. Is that correct correct? And it's right and it is if you know if the mosquito lobby was able to get together and drive and drive the conversation We might you know, we might be in the same place with Zika Fortunately, they don't In my remaining time. I wanted to one quickly mention I completely agree with the call on inclined sleepers and right there with you I think that we made a tremendous mistake in allowing that product category to be created and going down that road And so we'll continue or my office and I will continue to do our part on that Miss one tribe, but it's just in closing. Can you just briefly tell us the status of the ROV? Voluntary standards process and what you are see happening there. I have not I have no direct knowledge. There was a meeting a Year ago last September that was difficult to Access and I have no more information about that voluntary standard Nor what's happening nor what changes may or may not be made. I have not received any information Great. Thank you. Thank you, madam chair. Thank you very much commissioner K. Commissioner Beylko Thank you, and thank you all for being here this morning Especially you miss us too long for your courage and being here and I'm terribly sorry for the tragedy that you suffered Your comments today touched me on many levels and I particularly appreciate your comments about You know reaching parents in a real way because I too scroll through a Lot of the things that you mentioned and I thought your point today about Making sure that the educators and social services is something I hadn't even considered Making sure that as they're going into the homes that they have the knowledge that they need to help the parents as well So that has started some ideas moving and I thank you for that on the issue of tip-overs It is a frustrating one for me as well I Disagree with my colleagues that 104 is the best way to go mainly because I think 104 provides way too many shenanigans for people to To use and what I think needs to be done is that this needs to be fixed And let's figure out what the solution is and then we'll figure out the means in which to implement it but I am also Looking for a way to speed it up and get it done because no one's going to convince me that a better product Cannot be made in this situation I I am Looking forward to you. You both mentioned mr. Wallace and mrs. So long you both mentioned the sturdy act Have you seen a draft of the act? Yeah, so I haven't seen a draft of the act And I'm anxious to take a look at that I think that's an important movement as long as the act itself is Strong and and the draft is strong because if we if we draft Legislation that really only addresses part of it or it doesn't address it You know all the way around it's gonna be yet another obstacle which I don't want to see happen So I am looking forward to looking at that and I do support all of you and in your efforts to get this issue resolved Dr. Hoffman, thank you for your comments on liquid nicotine. I couldn't agree with them more Just for the record. I wasn't confused on what the law required And in fact commissioner Feldman and I pushed pretty hard on this I wasn't sure where the confusion came from it seemed pretty clear And I want you to know that we are committed to getting it fixed and moving ahead appropriately Because it is a very dangerous situation and every day I hear a different scenario that could be a problem So thank you for that and certainly feel free to keep pushing on that particular issue I do have a question for you on The comments that you made about the is it the walkers the infant walkers and how it delays motor development Tell me a little bit more about that. So there there's data it because walkers have been less prevalent Over it in you know in the last 10 15 years there hasn't been much as much attention paid to them There was a little blip a few years ago When when some of the data was re-analysed, but there is there there is research that goes back to the 80s and 90s around the lack of utility for infant walkers in improving infant development and some potential for decreasing the gross motor development, especially around the transition from Moving around on a floor to standing and walking I did not know that and you're referring to the the Mechanism that has the wheels not that what I call the jump-a-jump is correct So the stationary the stationary play yard stationary extra the stationary exercisers Have not had the same risk associated with them. It's the ones that move Because of falling downstairs or tip-overs, and I know that there were some changes in the standard around them the ones with wheels around having brakes To try and prevent falls and why that may have been that way that while that may be beneficial It is not sufficient. Okay, if you don't mind I'd like to follow up with you I'd like to read some of that literature I'm curious about it and along the same lines. You also mentioned that there are some Developmental that children are not Developmentally capable of operating a TVs. Can you expand on that a little bit? Yeah, so that that is something that has a tremendous evidence base So, you know and and a lot of it extends to the issue of t it relates the issues of teen driving etc So we know that that full executive function the ability of the sort of human part of the brain To correctly analyze risk and make decisions is not fully formed until somewhere in the 20s So there are issues of cognitive and cognitive element and judgment that will just not be Part of the skill set for an early adolescent or even a late adolescent Then there are issues of coordination strength and the ability to Independent of that mature executive function be able to act appropriately on machines that are incredibly powerful heavy And inherently dangerous And I would make the jump then to making the decision to operate them on a paved road when they're not supposed to be made it That much worse Absolutely because of other hazards associated with vehicles and and and the like okay. Thank you. I think that's all I have Thanks Thank you very much commissioner Feldman Thank you, and thank you all for being here today. My first question is for dr. Hoffman First I want to thank AAP for all of its advocacy on the liquid nicotine issue Is it your view that the agency is doing enough to enforce the child nicotine poison prevention act I? Thank you commissioner Feldman, and we want to also thank you for all of your advocacy around liquid nicotine While I Think we are well. I know we are grateful for what the the Commission has done. I think there could be more. I agree. Thank you I Wanted to push a little bit deeper Also and and to to call on your your medical expertise and familiarity with with this particular issue I'm not aware of any child fatalities that are associated with liquid nicotine poison recently Commissioner there was a child in Israel recently Within the last month, okay? I wasn't aware, but yeah, no no no domestic fatalities not that I am aware of But our data is only as good as our data Is it your view that there's a reasonable explanation why we haven't seen fatalities or has the agency just gotten lucky I? Would argue luck more than anything else. I think you know there have been that the The policies and and the restrictions that have been put in place. I certain have been beneficial But as I think as a recurring theme this morning, they will be completely insufficient and honestly It's it's just a matter of time Okay, that's that's sobering, but I appreciate hearing your view Miss one drop my next questions for you In your remarks you mentioned Internet of things vulnerabilities including a recently discovered Bluetooth exploit with respect to an electronic scooter I am aware of this particular vulnerability. You and I have had an opportunity to discuss this offline and I sent a memo to our staff urging them to take a closer look I I It's always my view that in examining an emerging hazard like this that if there's evidence to support a preliminary Determination that a substantial product hazard exists that staff move expeditiously to make that finding so that we can proceed with enforcement But thus far. I don't have any updates for you on this I suspect that there are some gaps in our agency staff expertise with respect to new and emerging technologies We've we've actually said as much explicitly in our most recent budget request to Congress That's one of the reasons why I've been advocating for the agency to hire a chief technologist As many of our sister agencies have done This would be a staff member whose role would be to supplement agency Expertise and allow the agency to stay ahead of product hazards associated with emerging technologies Is this something that CFA would support? Yes, we very much would great. Thank you for that. Mr. Wallace I want to ask you about recall effectiveness We know and there have been ample studies that direct notice recalls are the most effective kind of recalls and Miss Juan Trabbe you you mentioned this explicitly in your prepared remarks When CPSC pursues a recall be it a mandatory recall or a fast-track recall The agency will often work with the recalling firm to leverage the data that it collects through sales records Product registration data brokers and in other sources to affect that kind of direct notice I'm concerned that the recently adopted California privacy law Contains a right to delete provision under which consumers can wipe this data from affirms a firm system and records I'm concerned that this deletion May limit the effectiveness of future future recalls and hamper the ability of a recalling firm to post Higher numbers with respect to recall effectiveness and ultimately hamper the agency's work in executing diligently on its safety mission Do you agree? I in particular am not as I'm not a privacy expert. I'm not the one who's Directly involved with that legislation. I know our privacy team has looked at it. I know we're aware of your letter and I you know our our sense is that the California privacy law Does not meaningfully impede the collection of information needed for To have effective recalls. Okay, miss one drop. Did you want to jump in so similarly? I am not our privacy expert I have spoken to our privacy expert about this who has been extensively engaged in that California law and I think From our conversations, my understanding is that She thinks you make a good point and it doesn't seem to be the Intent at all the law and we'd love to have the clarity to make sure that it doesn't impede These type of recall effectiveness efforts. I appreciate that and I know that this is an ongoing conversation and one that I hope CR and CFA that we can continue Going forward missed along It's good to see you. Thank you for being here. I want to thank you for your advocacy on the furniture tip over issue I wish it was under different circumstances, but but but nevertheless, I'm glad that you're here And I appreciate the discussions that we've had in the support that you mentioned for the amendment that Commissioner Bianco And I advanced to to accelerate a robust mandatory standard on furniture tip over The amendment that we offered was focused on our fiscal year 2020 budget requests I'm glad that we got that locked in but 2020 still a ways off I think we can and should move more quickly with respect to a Mandatory standard via section seven and nine that addresses all products not just not just juvenile products It's my sense that we'll have an opportunity at the agency's mid-year review to take a look at dedicating on expended resources if there's an opportunity to Within within the short term Take steps to accelerate a mandatory standard. Is that is that something that you would support? I Would support a mandatory standard that is adequate the if we're mimicking the voluntary standard that we currently have I Don't feel that that is something I mean a mandatory standard is good, but how difficult will it be to change that mandatory standard to fit what real-world circumstances Effect I guess when I say robust mandatory standard I mean more robust than the current voluntary standard if it's a more robust standard Yes, I support a mandatory standard. It's my hope that that we can continue our conversations and and I look forward to Seeking your counsel and advice as we move forward. I appreciate that. I have no further questions Thank you very much I Want to thank all of you for your participation today for your comments and for your willingness to answer our questions Thank you very much for being here That concludes first panel and now we will just take a five minute break to transition to panel number two Thank you all very much Welcome back, and we will now resume with our second panel which includes Ms. Karen and Please say that again for us pronounce your last name It's Athonous Athonous Karen Athonous From the International Federation of Inspection Agency Americas Ms. Nancy Coles from Kids in Danger Ms. Crystal Ellis mom of Camden Ellis and Pat founding member and Ms. Carrie McGarry Funk From Maddie's message. Thank you all very much for being here. We welcome you and look forward to hearing your comments Miss Athonous you may begin Good morning acting Chairman Virgil and commissioners My name is Karen Athonous, and I'm the senior policy manager for the International Federation for inspection agencies Americas thank you for the opportunity to speak today regarding the Commission's agenda and priorities for fiscal years 2020 through 2021 If you is the trade federation representing the independent third-party testing inspection and certification industry If you have members provide services across a wide range of sectors Consumer products medical devices petroleum mining and minerals food Agricultural and among others in addition to providing testing inspection and certification services if you have members provide training Evaluate product designs and audit supply chains to help increase awareness of safety and security issues applicable requirements and to help protect consumers If you and its sister organization Siak International have recently merged to form the TIC Council Global trade or association that brings together over 90 member companies and organizations active in more than 160 countries If you and its member organizations have long enjoyed working with the Commission and we look forward to another year of engagement and open communication and It is on that topic that I speak today if you and its members welcome CPSC's outreach to stakeholders especially those of us in the community Calc for me assessment community to have open conversations about the best path forward to ensure consumer safety We feel this is essential to the regulatory process and recommend the continued close collaboration of the CPSC with the independent test inspection and certification industry organizations Such as if you to ensure that we and our members can bring our technical knowledge to the table to help inform the issues and help to find an appropriate path forward Approaches that if you recommend the Commission take to continue to engage the industry include partnering with if you members in CPS training of manufacturers and designers on product safety requirements and Best practices across the globe these trainings help ensure that safety is being built in the earliest stages of the supply chain And it is a preventive and cost-effective measure If you welcome to the opportunity to participate with CPSC in previous years and welcome similar future opportunities to continue supporting CPSC's mission We also recommend the CPSC organized stakeholder roundtables and other engagements on consumer product testing best practices and that CPSC participate in those hosted by stakeholder groups Roundtables provide stakeholders an opportunity to share consumer product testing best practices and discuss underlying technical considerations which assist in addressing trends and issues They are a collaborative exercise that provides a platform for ongoing discussion and are essential to finding consensus between stakeholders We would welcome the opportunity to support CPSC in organizing such roundtables with stakeholders to discuss best practices If you as an if you and its members also encourage Ongoing engagement with stakeholders discuss emerging hazards Including IOT and cybersecurity to ensure that we can develop common sense solutions Before issues occur This emerging area of technical development brings amazing opportunities But also risk that we continue to discover and now must find solutions to address The experience and knowledge of those in the tick industry are invaluable to the discussion of these emerging issues with the CPSC And we look forward to those future conversations We also support CPSC outreach and engagement To other federal agencies also working on this topic to ensure a coordinated approach in IOT and cybersecurity So that the best path forward can be identified Although the safety and security concerns for IOT among agencies are different and different solutions might be needed depending on a Particular agencies reality the exchange of good practices and lessons learned can provide valuable insights to inform the CPSC work in this area Engagement with international stakeholders those working in multiple economies would also be a benefit So that successful policy initiatives in other areas can be applied to the issues being addressed by the CPSC if Yeah, would welcome our coordination on this front and can contribute feedback from our international members and Finally on the issue of IOT and cybersecurity If you recommend that CPSC consider updating the incident reporting system to effectively track IOT related injuries and incidents Such information provides valuable insights and guideline guidance that can be issued Can be used by industry government and the voluntary standard development process to further improve the safety and security of IOT devices Thank you again for allowing me to speak today on behalf of Ithia and our members of Organizations working and testing inspection and certification and other conformity assessment areas We continue to serve the Commission through our work in evaluating products in accordance with published policy and regulation And remain ready to engage Educate and have open conversations with CPSC and other stakeholders to assist in the process of ensuring the safety of products Thank you very much miss Coles Thank you for this opportunity to speak today On CPSC's agenda and priorities for the next two fiscal years Kid is dedicated to protecting children by fighting for product safety Our mission is to save lives by enhancing transparency and accountability Through safer product development better education and stronger advocacy for children I want to talk about three priority areas for CPSC in the coming two fiscal years regulation transparency and innovation Through the implementation of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act and including Danny's law section 104 The CPSC has successfully developed strong mandatory standards for 23 types of durable infant and toddler products We urge the CPSC to continue to prioritize this work giving staff the time Resources and support they need to develop strong standards that will reduce injuries and deaths from nursery products Because ASTM standards are such a key part of the section 104 process We also urge CPSC to fully vest the staff attending meetings to give strong guidance based on their research and data on The approach that would be most protective of children Including allowing them to vote on key ballots To remaining products expansion gates and expandable Enclosures and the infant inclined sleep products require different approaches giving current injury and death patterns and safety The ASTM subcommittee has been slowly working to require all gates to meet a standard where they can be used more confidently To contain young children keeping them away from potential hazards such as stairs cooking activities or other things Currently many gates only withstand a 10 pound push-out force CPSC staff has provided detailed information based on their research on what would make gates safer and Has been waiting for the committee to take those steps We would urge CPSC to move ahead without the committee due to the continuing delay and issue the mandatory rule Section 104 was not written to require following the lead of ASTM or any standard process But only to consider those standards and address areas where they are seen not to be stringent enough in In addition, I would urge CPSC in their own rule to put vital warnings on the product itself with gates Where it is visible with every use as with many nursery products People other than the one who opened and assembled the process product use it and must have guidance for safe use The rulemaking on infant inclined sleep products is a whole different story We all know based on the research from AAP that researchers have found that it can take as little as four minutes for an unintended infant to suffocate in an inclined product Infant inclined sleep products have great appeal to parents. We know that But as we saw from the recent recalls of the Fisher price rock-and-play sleeper and the kids rocking sleeper These product carry risks and lead to deaths Children become can become entrapped in an unsafe position and suffocate or die a positional asphyxia The AP warns against infant sleeping on an incline or while restrained because of the additional hazards these these features bring CPSC should stop the rulemaking on infant inclined sleep products and require all Infant sleep products to be covered either by the bassinet play yard non-full-size crib or full-size crib standard And while CPSC has issued a notice of proposed rulemaking on crib bumpers and ASTM is looking at firm Firmness warning and other measures. We strongly support a ban of padded crib bumpers or any crib bumpers The American Academy of Pediatrics as you've heard has a strong recommendation But against using crib bumper pads the amount of time and money going into designing a possible test method and warnings For these unnecessary and dangerous products would be better spent joining Maryland Ohio Chicago most major retailers and state child care regulators in the country in stopping the sale and use of padded bumpers Heed the lesson of the rock-and-play if the doctor say it is dangerous. It probably is Further we believe CPSC should seek to include in section 104 rulemaking all durable infant and toddler products This will require CPSC to evaluate new products as they enter the marketplace all products intended for sleep Should meet a mandatory standard as part of CPSI a we have the Danny K's our child product safety Notification Act that requires product registration cards in a conspicuous location on the product as well as a way to register online We've heard already today that direct notification is key to effective recalls And more should be done to encourage completion of registration by consumers both for new products and when they purchase on the second-hand market It has been ten years since this requirement was implemented in the coming year CPSC should evaluate data from recalls conduct conducted since that implementation to determine how it can be improved This would include data and registration cards returned online registrations effort to use the data during recalls and any obstacles that were encountered and Efforts by companies to increase registration numbers Recalls since 2001 as many of you know kid has been reporting annually on children's product recalls in March We released our report on 2018 recalls the number of recalls overall was the lowest since 2003 and the number of children's product recalls Was the lowest since we started tracking? Sometimes those low numbers are a good thing However, this time we believe that other less effective actions have been taken in lieu of recalls and we do not see it as a positive step I'd like to read you something from my last year's testimony at the same hearing We applaud the CPSC action to begin the mandatory recall process on the Britax Bob branded strollers Involved in dozens of injuries. This is one of the tools in CPSC's arsenal to protect consumers that is used too rarely While it might not lead to a recall for a period of time It does give consumers information previously hidden through section 6b that they can use to protect their families What a difference a year makes instead of a recall CPSC settled for an anemic education campaign announced during the shutdown and Ends just eight months from now What is the available data showing will the remaining eight months solve the problem of wheels that fall off of strollers unexpectedly? What? sorry What are CPSC and Britax doing to get even this weak response in front of consumers? We were concerned to read that Britax was not compliant with the agreement in terms of note Notifying retailers and wonder what else is going unchecked We urge CPSC to use evidence of continued incidents with this product to again call for a recall We have several recommendations for CPSC from our recall report that we've submitted with this testimony To summarize we call it CPSC to increase their efforts and the company's efforts to notify consumers through social media direct notification Enforce the voluntary ASTM standard for furniture stability and recall non-compliant units and Re-invigorate efforts to find products with design hazards and get them off the market sooner On transparency There has been much talk about the release of information from CPSC without following the section 6b procedure We agree if companies have been afforded protection CPSC should follow those rules However, the information being protected has public safety Implications section 6b restrict CPSC's ability to warn the public about product hazards And keeps consumers in the dark about dangerous products they have in their home and use daily I'd like to just talk briefly about the FOIA process a process that we use frequently We found the process to be tedious to say the least we get a lot of paperwork and very little useful information Often the original response to our request is inadequate and it takes months to get the information We were first asking for most of the reports are heavily redacted even of publicly available information such as counting social media posts our Ability to protect families is compromised by CPSC's inability to efficiently and effectively fill a request for information CPSC has all kinds of barriers in place such as section 6b to keep consumers from getting information The FOIA office should be a welcoming portal to help CPSC be more transparent with what information they can share I'm trying to figure out what to Talk through the last couple points. I do believe on innovation that the area of recall effectiveness is what can Benefit the most from innovation from what we can gather from sparse data available to us The effectiveness rate has not changed significantly since kids start first started working on the issue in 1998 Despite mind-boggling changes in communication channels and tracking possibilities Look for instance as Rachel Weintraub talked about the two recent recalls Despite the hearing a few or workshop a few years ago on on how to make effective recalls Those recalls do everything opposite of what was suggested to do Release late on a Friday afternoon There's no refund for most users of the product despite knowing how popular they are with consumers No one is going to trade something that they think helps their baby sleep for some trinket from Fisher price in exchange for it You know both CPSC's release and to a greater degree Fisher price downplay the danger convincing parents That if they follow directions their child will be safe in the product I do not believe this is going to be an effective recall and there are millions of these products out there And we're going to see additional deaths on furniture tip over is just want to Commissioner Bagua to let you know that it's HR 2211 is the sturdy act. It's been introduced and We strongly support that and it this is another area that CPSC should be innovating in I've heard that the the ballot that just closed at CPSC following your recommendations Chairman on what should be done. There are 24 negatives from industry on those ballots And so I believe that we are We need to turn to other measures than relying on industry to police themselves But thank you for the opportunity to come before you Thank you very much miss Ellis Hello, my name is Crystal Ellis I'm an elementary educator a mom child safety advocate and I'm here representing our group parents against tip-overs I want to begin by saying thank you to each one of you today for allowing me the opportunity to speak in June of 2014 My son Camden Ellis was the seventh child to die that we know of Due to an unstable dresser made by Ikea At the time I thought it was a freak accident and I had no idea that this was a danger in my home His dresser was 30 and three-quarter inches tall When I discovered that he was not only the seventh child to die because of the negligence of this particular manufacturer Without a recall, but that children were dying at the rate of one every ten days. I was absolutely devastated How was this possible? I had taken multiple getting ready for baby classes had put up baby gates Outlet covers cabinet locks and had our car seat professionally installed as a first-time parent None of the professional educators Healthcare providers mom group leaders or other parents had ever told me about the risk of dresser tip-overs killing my son I know that there are many other parents in this country that also have no idea that the dresser is a risk in their home They assume as I did that any product that is sold to consumers in the United States of America Has been vetted and tested by their government and would not be sold if it could kill us One death every ten days is a crisis that needs to be immediately addressed It has already been almost five years since the death of my son Over 14 years since the death of Kimamato's daughter Megan The earliest death in our group and not enough has been done to keep our children safe today In our opinion, there are several factors that are keeping unsafe dressers in our homes First is 6b Commissioner K said it best recently when he said people die because of 6b. It's as simple as that We have no idea why this rule is legal when there are no similar restrictions on sister agencies or proof that is acting as intended I Listened to the entire hearing the other day titled is the CPSC fulfilling its mission Some lawmakers are trying to argue that we need to keep 6b to protect the manufacturers from the CPSC and even each other Is there evidence of this problem being a major issue for the FDA that NHTS a We would argue no this is outrageous. We need to eliminate 6b to protect consumers the constituents The restriction of information prevented my family from even having a chance to know that our dresser was unsafe It allowed Ikea to delay the recall with an effect in effective education campaign that ultimately resulted in the death of my friend Janet's son Ted This leads me to our next concern the effectiveness and lack of recalls in 2018 according to a recall report by kids in danger there were zero recalls of dressers This is not because dressers are safer because even dressers meeting the weak Ineffective voluntary standard are still killing children To date the evidence of dressers in the Ikea recall being actually returned and taken out of homes is negligible More should be done to push manufacturers to make a recall that most effective it can be If they know how to market and sell a product to millions of consumers Then they know how to get the message of a recall to those same consumers They need a bigger stick to get them to do what they know will make a difference Also, if a dresser is according to the manufacturer meeting the voluntary standard, but is still killing children It should be recalled There and this is clear evidence that their product is still not safe for consumers We are encouraged by Chairman Burkle's words at the Ikea so conference when she said that she would make begin work To recall all dressers that do not currently meet the voluntary standard because manufacturers and consumers need to know that the government Expects manufacturers to make safe products to sell in the United States This starts with compliance with safety standards in their own industry We expect to see strong and deliberate actions that back up these words so that manufacturers know that there is an expectation to comply This is an important interim step as the CPSC finishes data collection testing That's already underway to identify more specifics about the hazard Third we would like to address the standard-making process for dresser safety By multiple accounts and measures this ASTM subcommittee F-1542 is one of the most contentious subcommittees overseen by ASTM They have stalled for years on addressing this furniture tip over issue There's a current ballot to vote on Chairman Burkle's recommendations of raising the test weight to 60 pounds and lowering the height to 27 inches as well as clarifying the phrase up to and including the age of five to say including children up to 72 months old We are wary that they will make this change even with pressure from Chairman Burkle consumer advocates and parent consumers and Hearing what Nancy had to say about 24 negatives. I can already see how this meeting is going to go next week We urge the CPSC to have a strong presence in future ASTM meetings including the one next week May 10th To show that you're holding them accountable and to be a voice of clarification when disagreements arise and they will Some manufacturer members of the ASTM subcommittee have argued that we should make the current voluntary standard mandatory But we know that the current standard is not strong enough proof of this exists Unfortunately with Connor DeLongstaff and the viral video of the same IKEA Hemnes dresser falling on the Utah twins both in 2017 We are also concerned that the creation of a mandatory standard from the current weak Voluntary standard will make it much more difficult to get the standard to a strong enough standard to protect consumers We think we should make sure to continue funding of safer products gov with the changes suggested by consumer advocates and users because it is a chance for information without the full repeal of 6b to reach consumers Finally, we encourage the CPSC to continue to invest in the anchor at campaign while parents against tip-overs Strongly believes that consumers should not have to minute finish making a product safe by anchoring it to a wall and Safety should be built into the product design We cannot ignore the fact that there are thousands of unstable pieces of furniture in American homes today Part of our PAP mission is to educate consumers on the need to anchor furniture and we need the anchor at campaign as our partners It was disappointing that CSUs were not added to section 104 when the Commission voted on it in March as Both Commissioner Adler and Commissioner Kay pointed out just because we cannot save all with this solution Does not mean that we should not save some To quote Commissioner Kay directly we should be pursuing every authority available that we have We should send a signal to industry that we're not leaving any tool unused especially in the absence of the passage of this proposal and It is absolutely imperative that we move forward with the proposal from Commissioner Feldman and Commissioner Bianco To move the dresser tip over hazard from an ampere to an NPR This issue needs to be addressed immediately and made a priority Our two most vulnerable populations children and seniors are at the greatest risk from this hazard And as Commissioner Adler pointed out in the latest hearing the senior population is increasing at the rate of 10,000 people per day so the risk will continue to climb until it is resolved Today parents against tip-overs is here to be a voice for our children who have lost theirs a Voice for parents who are home today Acting as full-time caregivers for their children who survived a tip-over incident But have been left with life altering injuries and a voice for parents who cannot find theirs Because they're overwhelmed by the darkness of grief and sadness that we have all unfortunately experienced Thank you again for allowing me to speak today, and I trust that the top priority for fiscal year 2020 and 2021 We'll reflect eliminating the risk of furniture tip-overs. Thank you Thank you very much. Ms. McCary funk Good morning, and thank you for allowing me to be here This is my first time speaking in this forum. So forgive me if I stumble a little I'm glad to be here with Crystal and Megan as my daughter Madison died from a falling dresser I'm not going to talk about a lot of statistics today because I think it's important you've heard the statistics You know the statistics and you you publish the statistics, but I think it's really important for you to see the families Behind the statistics and what our life has been like for the last 12 years since our daughter died October 23 2007 Our life became a blur Our family was rocked to the core It was late an afternoon, and I was at work my husband, and I both worked for the same company in the same building This executive assistant came and got him and said hey There's an emergency. You need to go home We didn't realize how bad it was we only lived those short three miles from our house. So we got in the car We drove home. It felt like three days. It took us to get there The only thing we knew is our daughter was injured. We didn't have any idea how bad it was We just prayed everything was gonna be okay when we got there and when we got there. We knew it wasn't We pulled on to our street. It was like a scene out of a movie fire trucks police cars ambulances as a matter of fact an ambulance was pulling off as We got there That ambulance was carrying my daughter. I literally jumped out of our moving truck and chased that ambulance down our street They wouldn't let me in They said they had to go I Went inside to find our babysitter who was also a family member of ours and our hysterical four-year-old son When our sitter went to get Madison up from her nap she found her underneath her dresser She flint frantically removed the dresser her body her face was blue She was under the dresser. She quickly regained color when the dresser was off of her So she thought there might be some hope she called 911. She did CPR What she experienced that day changed her life forever We can only imagine that Madison was trying to get her juice cup sitting on the top of her dresser It's my husband and I went into the house. We realized the real severity of the situation the police questioned us on Madison What was her age? What was her full name? I lost my cool. I Didn't know that my daughter was dead at that point. So I asked what do you mean? What was her name her name is Madison daily funk? My husband and I are driven to the hospital in the back of the police car Like criminals frankly We were making phone calls along the way calling people who we felt had a closer relationship with God than we did Hoping they could pray and God would listen to their prayers We hoped our daughter wouldn't be dead. We knew when we got to the hospital. It was bad The staff was really positioned methodically along the corridor We knew when we walked in there's the funk. There's the funk. There's the parents. We knew this couldn't be good Close friends of ours had gotten there before us. So they were there and We got there. We weren't exactly alone, but almost immediately the emergency room doctor came in. She sat down next to me She didn't mince words. Mr. Mrs. Funk your daughter has died. We did everything we could We're preparing her now for you to see her Come and get you as soon as she's ready A blur that's what our life felt like for the next several weeks and months How could this be even be happening? Not to us not our family like we're good parents, right? We're good people things like this don't happen to good parents Wrong, you know, I had only seen one other dead person my entire life and now here I am in the emergency room holding my dead daughter. I Didn't want to let her go. She didn't even look hurt honestly. You couldn't even see that she was injured She died from blunt force trauma asphyxia. She had died immediately We were told no suffering, but we were going to suffer from that moment on I Couldn't believe how quickly my husband and I were separated. We were questioned by different detectives While we were even still in the emergency room. I Guess time is of the essence, right? I now know it's standard protocol, but at the moment it felt terrible Why are we being questioned at the hospital? Detectives were at our house Imagine how my current children felt Listening to them lift the dresser and tip it over repeatedly testing to see if the force of the dresser Could really kill a child Trying to determine how someone couldn't hear it fall Downstairs for the record our daughter took the force of the dresser, which is why no one heard the fall. It's logical It's common sense We were investigated intensely by the virginia beach police Along with child protective services What a process Although I would not want their jobs. I'm super grateful for them and their service None of that gratitude made that process any easier while we were going through it Once we arrived home that evening I remember the hardest thing was telling my then 11 year old son and four year old son that their sister had died She was in heaven now The coming months would be challenging as we helped them navigate their grief journey all the while trying to navigate our own Within an hour of getting home. We got a phone call From life net health Asking for our daughter's organs, of course we said yes Never occurred us to say anything different. We could help save another life We would we're proud to say that madison's heart valves were placed with two different children The miracle of organ donation is amazing and life net health has been critical in our healing Madison daily funk was two when she died a very very preventable death We could not sit back and do nothing We knew if we didn't know about furniture and furniture tip over dangers other people must not know We call the furniture strap manufacturer She sells the straps to me at cost We give them away every chance we get that's how we give back We designed our website maddie's message.com as a place to read our story and learn about furniture safety We love to do random acts of kindness in her honor to help share our story outside of our circle of friends I regularly say please strap your furniture. Don't wish that you would have It's really not enough though, right? Although I've given out thousands and I do mean thousands of furniture straps. I've watched endless news stories Studied furniture tip over statistics We're not making any headway. My daughter died 12 years ago and the statistics today are the same They were the first time I ever googled furniture tip over Only logical responses to prevent these accidents is to continue to include furniture tip over as your highest priority for the next couple Fiscal years Please hold manufacturers accountable for the furniture. They sell Please help us by investing in the anchor at campaign and continue to be diligent in your support in the astm subcommittee f 15.42 meetings in closing I'll leave you with this Today this hearing is five hours long 300 minutes and according to your statistics 17 children will be affected by tip over during this meeting today Thank you so much in advance for your valuable commitment to this topic Thank you very much and thank you to all of you for your testimony We'll begin our round of questions for the commissioners. Let me begin by Just addressing my comments to miss Ellis and miss carry funk Thank you for being here as we mentioned to miss DeLong earlier Turning your grab your grief and your tragedy into a mission and to help prevent deaths for other families is incredibly inspiring and Incredibly difficult And I appreciate both of your courage to be here and be members of pats organization And to really be pushing not only the safety message, but stronger regulations and perhaps a statute. So Thank you very much for being here I think it's important To note you you've heard from all the commissioners earlier in the first panel But tip overs and solving the problem is a priority for this agency and I want to first of all say that Each one of the commissioners sitting in this dais believes it's a problem that can be solved and as miss DeLong said it has to be a collective action And working together we can and it's going to be many components It's going to be you both have talked about as did miss DeLong an educational campaign increased funding for that But most importantly, I think it's going to be either the statute the Sturdy Act or it's going to be increased voluntary standards That will be enforced. So I just want to assure you that that is a top priority and it has been a top priority For the commission and will continue to be And we look forward to Working with you and keeping you abreast of what we're doing here at the agency There are many things that we can't disclose that are going on behind the scenes And I think although I can't be specific about those There is much being done On the compliance side of tip-over and the tip-over issue So again my deepest appreciation for both of you being here as well as miss DeLong and for us to hear from The pats organization and to as you mentioned put faces With numbers because it's so much more meaningful and impactful. So thank you very much I have no other questions commission or other Oh, thank you very much madam chairman And I just want to join in second the comments that the chair made about Your appearance here today. I realize it takes a tremendous degree of courage to come here And to speak through the tears and the pain But you bring a harsh dose of reality to the table I've noticed over the years as I've worked at the agency at some point we get reports of injuries and deaths And we look at them we say oh, how many are there and we never stop to individualize them We never stop to think this was one child of a set of parents This is a set of feelings and a point of grief that will not go away And what you've done is drive home a message for us as policymakers that we have to incorporate But we we need to look and I'm sure people have said this a thousand times But it's so important we need to look beyond just to bear statistics to the humanity of it So I can't thank you enough for your testimony and I wanted to come back to a point that Ms. DeLong made and I thought she made it in a very graphic fashion, which is if we're going to have Parents of kids pay attention. We need to scare their pants off and there there's a lot of social science research that Supports that notion But I also want to say that we need to scare the pants off of the manufacturers About the need to take action to protect Kids that they themselves have a reality and I'm sure a lot of them are parents And I just don't quite understand what it is about them that leads them to be so Reluctant to act and I'm curious you've attended these meetings. You've followed astm. Have you talked to the manufacturers? Have you tried to drive home the necessity of this message? You know, it's interesting because you go to these Meetings and for me my my first big large meeting was back in November their their big meeting And I had been told ahead of time Be prepared it can be a little contentious people, you know get a little heated and it was Overall a relatively quiet meeting because I think that they were surprised that we had such a presence there And they were trying to figure out who we were what our role was and So I'm sorry. Can you repeat your question? Well, it's I was going there with a point No, and you were you were getting there very quickly and I think part of it is you You were illustrating just how substantive how well prepared you were to address that Well, and so so we sit at the table and we're sharing our stories We're sharing that we want to advocate with them. We want to talk to them And you know you speak to people in passing and at lunch and Individually, they'll tell you I have grandkids or I have kids. I care about this issue But then when it comes to action It's just it's just not presence. It's just it's it's not putting their money where their mouth is and and It was very disheartening actually furniture today published an article that consumer reports was so gracious with kids in danger as well And responding with pat there was a comment made about how The consumer advocates and parents are in there kind of Basically sharing their sob story and they're not really interested in data and they're not interested in moving the conversation forward just you know being very emotional and and I took that two ways where Clearly those one-on-one conversations are not making the impact that I thought But that I need As well as others to step up our game and like you said I have What we call my dead kid story But I have the facts and the data and the knowledge I have a feel like I have a phd and dresser tip-overs at this point in my life And I'm going to bring all of that to the table because I do Have an educated voice on this issue. I don't just have a sob story to tell you And I just reiterate this is one of the most effective things about Pat as you call it because you are not only bringing the reality of your stories But you've done your homework and that is incredibly effective and I can speak only for myself And one of the other points that I would Emphasize from consumer reports article is this is not like some of the issues we confront where safety is a challenge in terms of Products that are useful and products that are low priced you can make Dressers cheap and safe And I think that's one of the most important things that the consumer reports article Stressed there are fixes and they're they're they're really available. So I really appreciate that So thank you again for your testimony miss Athanas Athanas I'll get it. I did have One comment and one question I think your members have done An interesting and a useful job in terms of voluntary standards activities I've been talking a lot to folks in antsy and one of the things they say is that the certifying bodies often Not always But often speak on behalf of consumers when there's no consumer representation as part of the development of voluntary standards So I urge you and your members to continue doing that But you probably haven't heard me as The common scold but I did want to be back to one point of scolding that I've raised which is I think your members have Developed a very profitable practice from the fact that the cps. I required third-party testing But there are a lot of small manufacturers sort of been left by the wayside Who really have trouble affording the third-party testing requirements? And some of them have adopted by just abandoning their production others have adopted by just not compliant Just making the products and hoping they don't get caught and so my question is What if anything has your group in terms of policy? pronouncements done to address the concerns of the small manufacturers who really have trouble affording your services Well, our organization continues to to reach out to the manufacturers and provide education and information So that they can use that in their processes to teach them about the regulations and requirements that we need to Assess to or test inspect to At the end of the day the policy is what it is and it's important to ensure that all manufacturers comply Equally because one produced item that's not tested properly That's not certified property will end up being a mother or father at this table And so while we recognize that burden on the manufacturers I think we all carry or shoulder a certain level of responsibility Laboratories have to meet an international requirement Parents need to put knee pads and shoulder pads on their kids and manufacturers have to ensure that their products are inspected and certified and tested So, you know, we will continue to reach out to them and meet them at the table to identify What is the best course faction? Maybe it's not third party So that is what our recommendation is is let's just keep talking to each other Thank you. I appreciate that miss coals I think you all have done a terrific job in monitoring recall effectiveness over the years and I did I've been meaning to mention this before and I'm sure you would agree with it completely but Not a metaphor original with me, but I liked it You really want an agency like cpsc to be the fence at the top of the hill Not the ambulance at the bottom of the hill in other words recalls In many respects indicate a failure in the system. I know that we're going to continue to need recalls But one of the things I think is important is To stress as you do the need to stop dangerous products before they get into the market So I really appreciate that but I wanted to come to the issue of 6b As you know, that has been a point of concern of mine and of commissioner k You have experience with other agencies that don't have 6b information restrictions Is it your sense that these other agencies are acting irresponsibly and full heart in a full hearty fashion? in Sending out inaccurate and misleading information because they don't have 6b restrictions In other words, should we extend 6b protections to other agencies? Oh gosh. No, don't do that um, no, I I think that um The information that other agencies are required to share you look at fda every single complaint about a A drug is is public every these other agencies function just fine We heard the same arguments about safer products even though it was coming from consumers that if you put this in place That would be the end of business as we know it because You know, they wouldn't be Substantiated companies would lose business based on these complaints the same thing we heard about, you know Their competitors. I mean they think that we're attacking industry. They attack each other way more than we Ever the way they talk about what their competitors are always about to do to them But I think that information Especially when it's public safety information whether it's here at the consumer product safety commission or in lawsuits Or wherever if someone has information that A parent is using a product and you hear know that it's dangerous know that it's killed children How you can keep that information from the public Behind him behind this law is just ridiculous parents can get the information They may make different decisions than I would make for them But that is not information that a public agency should be keeping from the public Thank you very much Missioner k Thank you, madam chair Miss McCrary funk and miss the long I do want to follow up on your testimony and talk about steps going forward It would obviously be great if congress Passed the sturdy act, but what underlies the sturdy act Is us still doing a technical analysis and coming up with a performance standard to solve this problem And to reiterate what I said during the first panel We can do that now Under 104 There is nothing stopping us from doing that now. There's no legal impediment. There's no funding impediment There is no impediment whatsoever to the commission tomorrow approving an amendment to add 104 to our agenda And giving the staff the direction to develop a performance standard under that again It will not address every product we get that we totally understand that But what it will do and why it's so important other than getting a head start on the sturdy act should it ever pass Is it will get public technical answers To this problem that would take a much longer time to be made public Under seven and nine and we have examples of when the agency in the past Has come up with technical solutions on portable generators on rovs That is a game changer when those are made public that changes how the industry responds And I wish it were not so But I can't think of one area Where we have not had to use our mandatory authorities To get industry moving it every time falls the same exact pattern. They say it can't be done They come up with all these reasons why it can't be done We finally act we show it can be done And then they act it's going to be the same thing here and the way to get them to act Is to unleash our staff under section 104 It will happen faster and it will be more effective So I ask again that you not give up on the 104 process because I actually think it is the key at this juncture Both to our regulatory efforts To the statutory changes that might occur and to the voluntary standards process So I wanted to leave you with that message on that Ms. Coles You mentioned FOIA. Thank you for raising that We obviously have a pending proposal That we plan to move on in the near future to update our FOIA regs. That's public on our website I don't know that that will be the version we vote out, but there is a version that's public In your mind Is the agency putting aside its restrictions, but from your experience are we being as transparent and as efficient in releasing information as we can? Not based on my use of FOIA So there are some FOIA requests that we make where it all goes smoothly and we get what we asked for Usually depends. I guess on which company is is looking at it and sending it back to us Others kind of languish in the FOIA office even before they get sent out to companies We get a lot of redacted information And it's very difficult I mean we've been unable for instance to look at the issue of recall effectiveness through your own numbers because So many of them are either redacted or we simply never get the the form So I think it can be an office and I know their attempts to make it run more smoothly And I appreciate those can be an office that can help give the public the information that you have so that they can Uh Be safer keep their children safer Um, and I hope that it's moving in that direction. I've heard some concerns about Additional costs for that and I think that that is a very bad direction to go in I mean your responsibility is the safety of the public and you don't charge for your standard setting You don't charge for other things you do And I think the release of public information is not something that the public should have to pay Additionally for in addition to the tax dollars that support you to get that information And I share those concerns and I I think my hope is that this community Of stakeholders and I don't mean just the four panelists But all the stakeholders will pay very close attention to our efforts on this because I do think it has a major impact On our transparency and our functionality in serving the public. So as we move forward on this, I hope that we'll have good stakeholder engagement Um, you mentioned recalls and recall effectiveness I can't for the life of me see why announcing a recall on a friday afternoon is a good thing. Can you I'm sorry left it on no, I don't think it's good and in fact, I think that it's um, You know it not only limits consumers ability to hear about it But it limits media's ability to cover it and That may be intentional on the part of the recalling company I don't know, but I think that it is simply a practice that flies in the face of all the the talk we hear about Wanting to make recalls more effective one way to make them more effective is to stop doing the releases on friday afternoon To make sure that you have a strong remedy unlike what we're seeing with the two current ones That make consumers want to participate in it rather than convince them that actually there's no reason to participate in them Um, and then to hold companies Feet to the fire really to do a good job. They have the marketing expertise They have the ability to do amazing recalls if they're made to do it And you mentioned that it happens on a friday afternoon, and I'm not going to get into why it happens I don't even know sometimes why it happens But sometimes it does happen and we're forced into this awkward spot and I'm curious to get your advice on it If we find ourselves where The options are announced on a friday afternoon or hold it until monday with the risk still being out there How would you suggest we navigate that? Well, I think that's like the old ethics class question, right? There's always another alternative There's someone who knows ahead of time That it's coming can speed it up faster different points along the way. So you aren't left with that choice I mean the two most recent ones We all knew they were coming. We all knew this agency was working on them There was absolutely no reason for them to be done on a friday. I'm not saying delay them. I would never Urge delay, but they could have been done Tuesday or wednesday of that same weeks And then the voluntary standards process you provided really valuable input Super frustrating on gates can understand also for the life of me why that's taking so long I agree with you. We've tried to get this to move forward for almost a year now Without success But you also said something about The process generally in the cpsc staff's participation that I wanted to talk more about What are you seeing in terms of Their role and putting aside issues where they might seek to vote or to chair Which we know they have the authority to ask for permission from management But just generally the cpsc staff's participation How would you describe their level of engagement in terms of what you either have seen in the past or think they could be doing Because that's important to us because we don't have visibility into that where we can attend as observers But there's obviously a lot going on And so we often rely on others to report to us what they're seeing about how much The staff is helping Well, I think you know just to start off with I think one of the reasons the section 104 rules have been so Effective is that simply the power that it gave cpsc staff in those astm meetings where they can say Here's what we want to see if you don't do it We can still put it in the rule and it's really leveled the playing field there Whereas they were kind of ignored before that time period. So I see very Dedicated, I think Will Wallace spoke to it very dedicated staff knowledgeable. They bring data they address every issue That's there, but the the technical staff in the room They do everything they can they do not have the same authority as if Someone from the executive office was there and a good example of that is that's how we got the laundry packet Meeting is mark schoen would come and sit in on those meetings and urge people to Participate and to move forward or that cpsc would that makes a huge difference And there's some you know We've mentioned one committee in particular that I'm just not sure can be say I just don't see a way out of the dysfunction of the furniture committee at this point So we're hoping that we can take it somewhere else and and deal with that standard as you said through 104 through some combination of these other ones because Everyone's tired of waiting for something to happen in that area Ms. Athanas is to leave with you you mentioned during your testimony that you thought that the agency should improve our incident collection system to capture iot related Occurrences can you give us some more specific suggestions? And if you're not prepared now, that's totally fine if you want to follow up with us But it would be great to know more specifically what we might tweak to be able to capture that data more accurately In that case, I will have to collect additional information and follow up with you, but I'm happy to do so That'd be great. We'd be good to see that. Thank you everybody Thank you very much commissioner baoko Thank you, and I'll I'll pick up for commissioner Feldman left off. I'm sorry commissioner k left off Um, I agree that uh, I'm a big supporter of best practices and lessons learned and getting ahead of the curve So uh, is miss is it athanas athanas? I would like to follow up with you whether today or In in the future about some of your recommendations on whether it's iot or anything else I do think this agency has fallen a little short on on putting in some more Modern or up-to-date best practices and lessons learned. So let's talk about that a little bit more I would like to perhaps introduce some some of those ideas at the midterm, okay miss coles a couple points One the friday afternoon challenge. I think is a legitimate one. I think it should apply to this agency as well I'm not a big supporter of sending things out on a friday afternoon either And I do agree with commissioner k that there are sometimes a situation that you're you're stuck with Hey, we get this out friday or we wait till monday. So i'm not saying there's anything, you know Sinister about a friday afternoon, but your point is well taken and I think it should apply to this agency as well I do have um, I am happy that you raised the issue on foyer I do I feel you're paying getting information out of this agency is not easy And I've thought about filing a few foyer requests of my own to see if I could get more information But you've talked me out of that and have reminded me that our foyer request definitely does need some um Revisiting and I do know that as commissioner k pointed out we are we are working on that slowly But surely and one last comment that I is my nature. I have to address I know you're very passionate about 6b But the agency at least i'm speaking for myself. I don't hide behind the law We do follow it and I appreciate that you're very passionate about that But the law is what it is whether we agree with it or what it or if we don't and we definitely We have to follow it and I think that the agency does its best to follow that law And until it's changed we're gonna have to do that Sure a real question, but um, I agree with you and and chairman berkel when she was at over at the house Said the same thing that the law is the law this agency goes well beyond what is in the law So when I get a redacted um Monthly corrective action report and it's a redacted based on 6b The number of times the company posted on the recall on facebook How is that possibly protected by 6b when it's public information? Or when I hear someone doesn't want to talk about a civil penalty or a Or a recall because of 6b once the product has been recalled 6b really should not Apply that that information is now out there and it's public. I think that so take away My you know passion for getting rid of it industries vehement support of it And look at the edges of it of the shadow that the law is casting at the agency and see if there's ways that the agency Can narrow it to cover just what the law intended it to cover And I think you'd find a lot of space in which we could Make public additional information. Okay fair enough Ladies, thank you There's nothing that I can say that hasn't already been said And I do appreciate you coming here sharing your story. It's it's painful To say to say the least and I do appreciate you being involved. Mrs. Ellis, you're right You are very well versed in this area as are your you know your colleagues in this and I am Beyond angry as to it when I hear the behavior that goes on at these meetings this can Must be fixed nobody's going to convince me otherwise I have a question though and I'm just speaking off the cuff and that somebody's going to tell me We've already tried this or we don't have authority to do this. Has there any been have there's there been any discussion about some type of More creative approach like mediation Where we get everybody in the room and we Do it more from a What's the best performance standard because I I do agree whether it's 104 or section 7 or what have you You got to have a strong standard whether it becomes voluntary mandatory or what have you we're not there And that's the part that frustrates me. I I I get frustrated when I hear well, you know this or that or you know 50 pounds 60 pounds I want to know what fixes this and I know people in that room know the answer So is there another way that's been discussed that we can get to that point? in my limited experience I have found that this meeting that we go to feels a lot like mediation where We say something they say something Somebody changes maybe a line and then somebody comes back and says no, I don't want to change that line so we you know take that off and then Literally it goes this way back and forth back and forth back and forth And then we get to the end of the meeting and they go I guess we're just going to have to table it and we'll see in six months That's the part that needs to stop So that's that's but that's what's happening is that they say oh, we're going to start this conversation And they put it on the agenda and we have it goes back and forth back and forth now it goes to a task force And like megan pointed out sometimes there's Meetings outside of the task force that come and then we talk at the task force And we do the same sort of little dance where we move this way We move that way then we come back to the general assembly and in the meeting and And literally over and over and over again. I mean one of Was in einstein that said we you know the repeating of the same behavior over and over again expecting different results You know So, you know, it's But I think it is deliberate I think it is intentional I think they know they have a number of hours to fill they have a meeting that is required And they work in tandem To have this push push push push push until they can get to the next six month meeting That's that's where I'm at and so for me the next step, you know mediation So we've been so megan Died in 2004 and kim's been abdicating since then and she's you know So she's been in this game longer than me and she said she's seen this over and over again And what I want to say is I understand what the right channels are I understand that becoming involved in astm meeting with you meeting, you know Educating I we've tried that and that's where the legislation comes in That's where that's where we're at is because we tried those channels We did our very best to work with them and we've reached an impasse and that's where the next step is Is the sturdy act and I am very much looking forward to you reading the specifics of this legislation Because I think it's going to address some of the conversation that that you're wondering I think what i'm hearing though is that the sturdy act will give us a means by which to Fix the we still need the technical solution. It has some of the it has some of the technical requirements. Okay All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate you all being here. Thank you very much commissioner feldman Thank you Wanted to pick up on on what commissioner biakko had mentioned with respect to 6b in the statute I see my role as a commissioner as enforcing the law as it's written I I understand the conversation about 6b I'm interested in working with my fellow commissioners to point out areas where the law might be improved and I would welcome your input in that But I've pledged to faithfully execute the law as it's written without fear or favor And this is a commitment that I take seriously. I think this is an ongoing conversation. Let's have it, but uh, I just wanted to get that in on the record Miss ellison miss mccurry funk Um, I want to thank you both for being here and for sharing frankly your your heartbreaking stories Um, I want you to know that I hear you. I'm listening to you There's more that cpsc can and should be doing With respect to furniture tipovers I share your concerns about the adequacy of the current voluntary standard I also share your concerns about The pace of progress in the astm subcommittee I agree with commissioner k that the agency needs to take the lead on technical findings Um, but I also believe that we can do that right now under section seven and nine Um, we can do this right now And and we'll have a standard that covers all csus not just the narrow subset of the product category Um, I don't have a question for either of you right now other than to ask that you continue to remain engaged with us Uh, and on the issue and I know that you you will be Um, the expertise that parents against tipover brings to the discussions invaluable And I hope that we'll continue to have the benefit of your council as the commission moves forward with a mandatory standard Absolutely, we pledge to be here at the table. Thank you very much um Miss cowles I also want to thank you for being here today and uh for your thoughts about how the agency uses product registration cards For durable infant or toddler products Under danie keiser cpsc is authorized to issue requirements about what should be included on these cards And this data it's important. Uh, people like to say that cpsc is a data-driven agency It's my view that the agency would benefit from reinforcing its data science expertise On forms and questionnaires like what's required under the statute. It matters how questions are asked It matters what data fields are collected A small tweak here or there Can drastically expand or contract the agency's perspective into a particular market dynamic And that's part of the reason that commissioner biakko and I introduced an amendment to hire a chief data officer I'm glad that a form of that amendment was ultimately approved I think more work needs to be done to make sure that the positions funded and implemented appropriately But I want to hear from you about what more the agency can do to leverage these registration cards to help cpsc better execute on its safety mission Well, I think that you know part of maybe what I don't have the information on is I'm not sure cpsc ever has access to those cards Right, I think that they're for the the companies to collect But I think it is we have this 10-year experiment, right? We felt that this was important that people be able to register their products. We know direct notification is important Let's analyze it. Let's look through the recalls And and this requires getting good information from the companies on the recalls, which From what I've seen from monthly corrective action reports may not be there But you can certainly go back and try and get some of it How did they use them? Were people contacted? We just had the fisher price two weeks ago now I know some people have told me that they've already gotten their notification And other people even though they know they registered the product have not been notified and they have not moved So, you know, let's use that kind of information after the fact to figure out how we can improve it going forward And in this area of communication and data, especially, you know, what we passed 10 years ago We thought it was state of the art that we required that they include a way to register on the web Now there's a whole bunch of other ways that they could get that information I think that the the statute sets the You know the ground of what is required It does nothing to stop companies from using many other means to gather that information Make the same pledge of privacy for the information and increase the number of people who register I appreciate that. Thank you. I have no further questions Thank you very much again Our sincere appreciation to all of the panelists For being here today and for taking the time to come here and then as well as answering all of our questions So thank you all very much. We will now break for lunch And we will resume in one hour. The time right now is exactly 12 45 So we will resume at 1 45. Thank you all very much and we will temporarily adjourn Welcome back to this public meeting of the united states consumer product safety commission Our hearing will now resume Just a reminder, this is our annual public hearing on the commission's agenda and priorities for the next two fiscal years 2020 to 2021 We have heard from two panels this morning And now we are going to hear from our third and final panel for today's hearing On this panel, we are pleased to have miss christin kerne from the american apparel and footwear association Ms. Audemore from the retailer industry leaders association Dr. Diana zuckerman from the national center for health research And mr. Remington greg from public citizen Let me just start by welcoming all of you and again thanking you for your willingness to be here today For your comments and for your willingness to answer our questions with that miss kerne. You may begin Good afternoon, and thank you for this opportunity to provide comments this afternoon I'm christin kerne with the american apparel and footwear association um AAFA is the national trade association representing apparel footwear travel goods and other sewn products companies and their suppliers Which compete in the global market with many of our members engaged in the production and sale of children's clothing and footwear We are on the front lines of product safety the priorities that we hope the commission will adopt our as follows Reduced testing and regulatory burdens associated with spandex I'd like to start by thanking the commission for your work on this project and most recently for filing the request for information on spandex flammability data We've brought up this project in previous hearings, but as a short summary The fabric flammability testing exemptions for fibers In plain surface fabrics does not include spandex. However, our members have found spandex And blends with other exempt fibers Consistently past flammability tests. We look forward to the information submitted through this rfi being reviewed and contributing to the progress of this project and we hope that the commission will continue to prioritize This effort to reduce testing burdens for companies without compromising product safety Um allow flamm fabric as a barrier for inaccessible parts We recommend that the cpsc review the determination on inaccessibility and fabric barriers In a 2009 guidance to industry on inaccessible component parts for children's products containing lead The cpsc stated that unlike other children's products that have led containing components that are accessible children will not touch The lead containing component with the hands or fingers if the component is enclosed in fabric and quote Um, unfortunately the guidance goes on to use the definition of a toy that can be placed in a child's mouth for the thallite Band under cpsia to formulate their guidance for inaccessibility of a fabric barrier However, a pearl and footwear are not toys While being worn as intended it is impossible for a child to swallow an article of clothing or a shoe And therefore the one size fits all definition of an inaccessible part Does not apply to these categories And due to this definition the cpsc applies the five centimeter determination To fabric covered components which renders the inaccessibility determination useless for our industry Determining that fabric is a proper inaccessibility barrier As practical experience suggests would lower testing costs in the apparel and footwear industry by eliminating testing requirements For certain components that will be covered in fabric once the article is made Address counterfeits as a safety issue In response to conversations with the cpsc commissioners about potential product safety concerns created by counterfeits The afa has begun research with our membership to gather information on this priority issue We're seeking to understand how companies address counterfeit products how the cpsc From a safety perspective, which Specific hazards are most common in counterfeit goods and how the cpsc can collaborate on the issue We hope that the cpsc will prioritize taking a more leading role in stopping counterfeit goods from entering the us Working with the cbp to develop a stronger system to develop to detect counterfeits and urging third-party marketplaces to have rigorous anti counterfeit programs in place Address the recent private Recent private data release Lastly, I would be remiss if I didn't address our members concerns with the recent Unauthorized data release and in the spirit of positive communication with the commission I would just like to pass along some of the thoughts that our industry has provided us on this event Our members who were affected by this data release are struggling with the limited information that they have received And we understand staff's limited resource resources in communicating with companies and appreciate the communication that has happened so far Going forward. We hope that the commission and staff can prioritize an investigation of this event and work to release full information To affected companies on what specific information Was unintentionally shared so that companies can respond accordingly Additionally, the afa is eager to engage with the commission on this issue in any way that we can be of assistance In conclusion, we're delighted to have a positive relationship with the commission And we believe that there are many opportunities for further collaboration So we look forward to working with the commission to reduce testing and regulatory burden Avoid safety issues created by counterfeit projects and ensure data privacy at the commission to the benefit of consumers and public health Thank you for your time and consideration Thank you very much miss more Acting chairman berkel and commissioners. Thank you in for inviting the public to be a part of the cpsc's budget process I am autum more director of regulatory affairs and compliance at the retail industry leaders association Rila members appreciate the commission's leadership on product safety matters including consumer education campaigns And stakeholder outreach and we're proud partners of each By way of background rila is the us trade association for leading retailers And our members include more than 200 retailers product manufacturers and service suppliers Which together account for 1.5 trillion in annual sales Millions of american jobs and more than 100 000 stores and distribution centers The cpsc is a data driven agency and in today's rapidly changing marketplace The volume of data that is relevant to product safety issues is increasing at an exponential rate The collection and analysis of data are now an important part of government and industry daily operations For the cpsc to meet its core mission. It is critical that it invests in internal staff Including a chief technology officer information technology systems and software resources to enhance the agency's data collection and predictive analytic capabilities Without such resources the agency will fall woefully behind and will not be able to protect us consumers One area where the commission should dedicate increased resources Is the expansion and formalization of the so-called retailer reporting program When the rrp was created it was intended to capitalize upon the breadth of information that retailers And manufacturers gather about customers interactions with products The original concept for the pilot was that the cpsc could analyze information from disparate sources To identify emerging safety risks and defect trends and work with participants to recall products much earlier than the current timeline thereby preventing consumer injuries and property damage This idea was truly unique and ahead of its time However, until recently the tools to handle the volume and complexity of this kind of data had not yet been developed Thus the rrp stagnated an expansion of the program was closed What was impossible at the time of the creation of the rrp is commonplace now New systems can handle millions of data points and predictive analytics tools enable identification of patterns And trends and can even predict consumer behavior As the cpsc moves forward it is critical to get input from stakeholders during the development process of an rrp Formal rulemaking allows those interested to help develop a true government industry partnership With defined benefits and requirements to participate One significant benefit would be having the data submitted as part of a revised and expanded program Satisfy a company's initial 15 b reporting requirement To be clear rila is not advocating for this new program to absolve participants of their responsibility To fulfill all section 15 reporting obligations merely the initial 15 b report A second benefit could be for participation in the program to be considered as a mitigating factor in civil penalty cases Cpsc should also consider breaking participation into tier levels Those tiers could be for company size or level of participation i.e the number of data fields they contribute as not every organization has the same amount of information available to them Having a variety of entry points into the program will allow any size company to begin sharing valuable product safety information with the agency Rila also asks Rila asks only that those entry points to participation or tier levels Be clearly defined so that there is a strong understanding of where and how one can join Rila members were pleased that the commission's most recent operating plan included a project to evaluate the rrp With a view for potential expansion and we are hopeful That the results will be an investment in the agency's data analytics capabilities Leading to formalization and expansion of the rrp Cpsc recently announced that some product incident summary information including product and manufacture or importer names Was inadvertently made public The information was released without context including the results of any cpsc investigation As to whether the incident was substantiated if the product even caused the injury If there is a substantial product safety hazard determination made or if the product met safety standards releases of information such as these can mislead the public about What consumer products are indeed hazardous or non-compliant and puts manufacturers and importers reputations at risk As the agency begins responding to those companies affected Fast full and specific communication is important This release shakes the confidence of the regulated community and the ability of the cpsc to predict to protect Confidential information and the agency should take steps take steps to assure that it does not happen again It is disappointing to note that the agency has been aware of deficiencies in its FOIA processes Since the office of the inspector general released a report in 2015 The report noted that no oversight was being done for information sent from certain departments And that proper training of key staffers was lacking The most recent oig report from last year notes that nine of the 11 recommendations from the 2015 findings have yet to be addressed Rila strongly encourages the cpsc to review the 2015 and 2018 oig reports And dedicate resources to implement their recommendations to establish a more formal FOIA processing system The system should be compliant with the agency's obligations So that only complete and accurate information regarding product safety hazards is released to the public Consistent with the scope of information that is permitted to be released under FOIA and the agency's own regulations Rila also strongly encourages the cpsc to focus on connected consumer products Internet of things technology is being incorporated into a wide array of consumer and industrial products And the list of places it could be used is endless While these products are meeting customers demand for new functionality and increased convenience They may also create cyber security privacy and safety challenges Multiple federal agencies are grappling with iot related issues And rila members are encouraged by recent announcements that the cpsc is taking the lead to develop an intergovernmental Group to address connected consumer products and identify lanes of responsibility We look forward to hearing the outcomes of this joint effort As it is critical that federal agencies work together to develop a comprehensive risk-based approach while promoting innovation One of the first issues the cpsc must address is whether the mere possibility that an iot product Would be hacked creates a substantial product safety hazard within the meaning of the commission's governing authority Rila's position is that it does not and urges the cpsc to look to the example of the federal trade commission Which understands that completely preventing any cyber hacking is impossible Instead the ftc requires companies to have reasonable data security programs That taken to consideration the sensitivity of the data collected Scale and scope of operations and level of risk if a breach occurs We urge the cpsc to adopt similar reasonableness ideas around connected consumer products Import surveillance is another critically important for the cpsc important area for the cpsc Rila members believe that the best use of the commission's limited resources is to target high risk importers and shipments Cpsc can do this by leveraging the resources It will save from low risk importers that are willing to partner with the cpsc in a trusted trader program To enhance import surveillance efforts rila once again urges the agency to create this program with clearly defined benefits such as One exemption from any future import certificate e filing requirements Two program participation as a mitigating factor in enforcement cases And three demonstrably lower percentage of cpsc inspections and holds By developing a robust trusted trader program that will encourage low risk importers to participate The cpsc will be able to focus on high risk importers and shipments that contain a higher likelihood of non-compliant and unsafe goods Lastly, there are a few process focused rule makings including the proposed amendments to the voluntary recall rule And the information disclosure rule under section 6b of the cpsa that have been pending for quite some time Rila and stakeholders submitted extensive comments on both the rules detailing serious issues with each proposal The commission has indicated on multiple occasions that these process focused rules do not warrant resources given the agency's higher priorities To provide industry with increased regulatory predictability Rila urges the agency to remove these rule makings officially by undertaking the necessary vote In closing rila members strongly support the cpsc safety mission and share the agency's commitment to protecting consumers The agency's open door policy that extends from commissioners and their staff to all career staff within the agency Is an example for all government agencies on how to achieve important public policy goals Rila wishes to be a continued resource and i'm happy to answer any questions you have Thank you very much dr. Zuckerman Thank you. I'm dr. Diana Zuckerman. I'm president of the national center for health research and thanks very much for the opportunity to be here Our center is a nonprofit research center We're staffed by scientists medical professionals and public health experts primarily and we conduct and explain research That can improve the health and safety of adults and children We don't accept funding from companies whose products we evaluate And as a scientist i'm going to end a public health person I'm going to focus on some safety issues that are often invisible So they're a little bit harder to talk about I'm going to focus on three issues artificial turf flame retardants and sports and recreational helmets to protect against head injuries Artificial turf and playground surfaces are Particularly important because children are exposed to them day after day and year after year Crumb rubber is used on playing fields and also on playgrounds And we know that there are some risks of that product And increasingly crumb rubber is being replaced by other materials which have similar components but Unknown risks because they haven't been studied yet So when I say artificial turf, I'm talking about that plastic grass that makes that's so green all year long and it looks terrific But it also has in full made from tire waste sometimes recycled tire silica sand And also volcanic rock and we don't know very much about what the risks of all of those different products are playgrounds And I'm talking about the material that colorful material under slides and swings and other and climbing equipment Is made out of rubber rubber mulch rubber tires Sorry tiles or something called poured in place, which is also rubber And whether it's a recycled tire rubber or so-called virgin rubber, they're all made out of petroleum These these are not natural rubber products Uh, and that artificial turf includes hydrocarbons phthalates and vocs They have what are called endocrine disrupting chemicals, which I know you know about Especially phthalates and these materials Disrupt hormones and they can call cause attention deficit disorder early puberty for young children They contribute to obesity and in the long run they can increase the risk of developing cancer And we think of these materials as solid whether it's you know the grass or these playground surfaces But they release chemicals into the air all the time So the crumb rubber particles for example get kicked up Into the air, but it's all the time These chemicals are in the dust and we don't see the dust, but we're breathing the dust and if we open our mouths Sometimes we're swallowing the dust And children and athletes breathe breathe in these chemicals and particulate matter When they play and small children eat them sometimes intentionally So you can see here what looks like black weeds growing, but that's actually pieces of tire crumb that are blowing that are released into the air When people are playing on the field Artificial turf can also contribute to asthma and I'll talk about a few studies So a university of georgia faculty member found particulate matter that contained arsenic cadmium chromium and lead In the air Near artificial turf. These are not materials that we would want in our children The california epa did studies that found particulate matter containing pa h's vocs and phthalates above artificial turf in indoor soccer stadiums as well as outdoor fields A study published in the international journal of occupational medicine and environmental health Said that children with asthma Have higher levels of pa h's that are found in crub rubber and these are all chemicals that are potential carcinogens The u.s. National health and nutrition examination survey called the n. Haynes is one of the best and most important surveys that our government does On a regular basis. They've done it for many years and they did a study of more than 15,000 American children and found that Those that were had higher exposures to pa h's were more likely to have asthma And last month a lab analyzed the lead at an elementary school playground Just a couple of miles from here and they found that 24 of the samples of the rubber shred Now this is under a playground a colorful playground, but it's broken up because the kids play on it and it breaks up into little pieces and they had Lead levels over 1,951 parts per million Similarly a recently published study on the playgrounds in boston found that there was more lead in the rubber playground materials Than an engineered wood fiber or sand and those are two other materials that can be used That are similar in terms of a soft fall if a child falls off a swing Um, there was um less lead in rubber than in dirt and that's because Those of you who remember that we used to have leaded gasoline and the lead from those emissions is still in the dirt Especially dirt that's anywhere near roads and streets Unfortunately, there are no tests required for artificial turf or playgrounds Pertaining to human health and particularly not to long-term health Now thanks to the consumer product safety commission some phthalates are banned from other children's products Such as teething rings and baby bottles and rubber duckies But some of those same chemicals can be an artificial turf that kids are exposed to all the time And uh, there's no restrictions on that I also want to talk about the heat from artificial turf This was also a field just a couple of miles from here on a typical washington Day in the summer. It's actually overcast that day, but it was very warm So the grass which we measured was 93 degrees on that day would have been hotter if it had been sunny But the artificial turf next to it was 148 degrees 50 degrees warmer on that same day the same area And I just want to mention jordan McNair the football player who died From heat At the university of maryland lots of issues there. I won't go into them But he was practicing on an artificial turf field So we're so glad that the consumer product safety commission has been looking into artificial turf issues as the epa has done And we're urging that you have a chronic that you put together a chronic hazard advisory panel To examine the short term and long term risks of the different types of artificial turf and playground materials My second priority would be organo halogen flame retardants Which as you can see in this picture are everywhere in our homes couches electronics chairs Even foam baby items The national academies of science engineering and medicine is finishing a plan to assess the hazards Of these flame retardants and it would be terrific if you all put together a chronic advisory chronic hazard advisory panel to use that plan to evaluate these Flame retardants and to develop regulations for the future In addition the flammability standards do need to be improved because we have a lot of restrictions That are not working and that are actually contributing to the dangers of Flame retardant materials, especially to people firefighters Again like the others these materials Migrate out of the products. We think of the these materials as solid, but it's in the air It's on the surfaces. I'm now touching it with my fingers if I put my fingers in my mouth There it is and It's in our food And they're very long lasting and that's why research shows that just about every american has these flame retardants in their bodies Last but not least helmets for sports and recreational activities You all have worked on helmets for bike helmets But we don't have Restrictions that are needed for to prevent severe injuries from other kinds of sports. There are helmets They mostly are designed to prevent severe head injuries. That's really important, but there's almost four million Concussions those are not considered necessarily severe And these mild concussions can also be very very harmful And the helmets that we have today are not designed to prevent damage from those kind of concussions So we're asking that you develop guidelines for helmets for other sports to ensure that they can reduce the risk And we encourage you to consider how design changes Could improve the ability of helmets to prevent serious head injuries as well as mild concussions And I can't believe I actually did it in less than 10 minutes. Thank you. Thanks very much and thank you very much, mr Greg Good afternoon acting chairman burkle and members of the commission public citizen appreciates the opportunity to speak at today's priority hearing Public citizen is eager to see the cpsc increase its focus on addressing product safety hazards through mandatory standards on a number of issues including window coverings Portable generators high powered magnets and preventing furniture tip-overs among others In addition, we believe that it is crucial that the agency turn more of its focus to Increasing the recall effectiveness rate transparency and the use of technology to make the agency work better Section 6b of the consumer product safety act has restrained the cpsc's ability to proactively disclose safety hazards to the public Section 6b is outdated Anticonsumer and intended solely to protect the reputation of businesses that put harmful products on the market It was obvious when sipsia was enacted that a database would not completely eradicate the problems caused by 6b With 10 additional years of knowledge. This assertion is even truer today While we continue to applaud safer products.gov true transparency requires 6b to be removed from law Section 6b has restrained the cpsc and its ability to proactively disclose safety hazards to the public To our knowledge No other federal agency that deals with public health and safety is subject to similar public disclosure restrictions 6b negatively affects consumers by unnecessarily shielding critical product safety information from public view There is no legitimate justification for this law and congress should eliminate it We have repeatedly encouraged the agency to make the case to congress and we recently did so Second while we strongly support the consumer product safety database if administered correctly And with certain small modifications It could far better serve the mission of providing a central Repository for critical product safety information and become a more effective tool to avert death or injury to the public As the commission considers improvements to safer products.gov Public citizen has continuously urged the commission to collaborate with technologists and innovators Including those who have experience in the private sector to implement the recommendations that we have made to the commission To our knowledge the commission has failed to take our advice This is deeply disappointing We strongly urge the commission to use the talent out there that can help the agency improve its mission Third when congress passed the original consumer product safety act It gave the commission the authority to impose monetary penalties Against product manufacturers for placing unsafe products into the marketplace Criminal and civil penalties serve as an important tool to discourage companies from cutting corners when manufacturing products And they also create an incentive to ensure that manufacturers quickly report product defects Over the last 10 years the cpsc has used as broad an authority wisely and has increased the amount that it imposes on consumers According to a recent public citizen report however in president trump's first year in office the cpsc Imposed about 21.4 million dollars in penalties with an average penalty of 5.3 million That was down from 37.3 million dollars a year earlier president obama's last year in office In addition according to our research the trump administration run cpsc Completed no enforcement actions in the fourth quarter of 2017 or the first quarter of 2018 imposing its first penalty in april 2018 The dip in enforcement actions at the cpsc is troubling is a troubling trend that is directly tied to a change in the commission's leadership congress empowered the cpsc with the responsibility of imposing penalties on companies when they place dangerous products into the marketplace And fail to report or otherwise open consumers up to potential injury or death Civil penalties are a tool that should be used robustly both to protect consumers against harm and to carry out congress's intent When increased the cpsc's civil penalty authority a decade ago We hope the agency will reverse the current trend and instead go back toward imposing meaningful civil penalties on corporate wrongdoers In furtherance of its important mission This year the department of justice brought the first criminal charge against corporate wrongdoers Prefailing to promptly notify the commission that a product presented a risk of injury or death to consumers While long overdue public citizen is encouraged that the department is using its authority to hold the most blatant corporate wrongdoers criminally responsible We urge the commission to work with the department of justice to identify others who should be prosecuted under this statute Fourth we urge the commission to do more to increase the unacceptably low recall rate for all products Including ikea dresses This piece of furniture has sadly injured 91 and killed eight children after this model of dresser tipped over onto them Since the high profile recall was announced in 2016 Ikea has given only 175,000 refunds and reinstalled 268,000 dangerous dresses despite the fact that the recall affected more than 17 million dressers The commission must redouble its efforts to demand more from ikea to increase its efforts Finally in 2013 public citizen petitioned the agency to ban adult portable bedrails against and Because they posed an unreasonable risk of injury and we argue that no feasible mandatory standard Would address the risk portable bedrails are purchased as consumer products by well-meaning family members and are used in the home Or sometimes in long-term care facilities in which loved ones are living These concerned consumers and their loved ones too often fall victim to misleading advertising claims That the use of bedrails make a bed safer when evidence suggests otherwise Our petition noted that even if similar mandatory standards were developed for adult beds as they have been for children's beds Such standards would not would be insufficient to adequately protect against strangulation and fall hazards presented by portable bedrails We are happy to provide more information to you on this topic and hope that the commission will quickly address this public safety hazard Commission faces many challenges We urge the agency to more wholly embrace its mission to protect the public from unreasonable injury or death By promulgating robust rules and standards to protect consumers and hold corporate wrongdoers accountable with strong penalties That serve as an effective deterrent And when it's a clear product and when a clear product is causing harm to force companies to do a better job Of getting the recalled product out of the hands of consumers We believe if the commission proceeds with its mandate to prioritize consumer safety above all else Including above the interest the interests of business and industry the cpsc can fulfill its decree to advance product safety And protect the lives and health of americans And my time is up it appears Thank you for the opportunity to provide comments. I look forward to your questions Thank you very much. We don't have a hook here at cpsc. My lights just go out I thank you all very much for your um compelling testimony and we will now begin our round of questioning and I will begin And each commissioner will have 10 minutes to ask their questions So um, let me begin by addressing what miss kern and miss more raised and that is the issue of the Unauthorized disclosure and I will say as much as I can say publicly, but I Want to assure the regulated community and all of those who've been affected by this that the agency has made this an absolute priority And is working on it diligently to address and to make sure We number one Have the correct information before we go public with that information and that has been The priority to make sure before we go out with any information that it is accurate And that will be forthcoming, but it is it has been and Will continue to be a priority of the agency on many levels in terms of how did it happen? Why did it happen and we will? Pursue appropriate action. So I want to just send that assurance out there This is not something that we take lightly here at the cpsc. It's something that we really have taken very seriously And we'll address the issue the issue As appropriate. So thanks for that question Um, I just want to talk a little bit. Um, dr. Zuckerman As you know, we are waiting and you alluded to it in your comments We're waiting for the nas report And the chap that was convened on the issue of organo had a halogen flame retardants. I would What you presented here today? There's a lot of material Can you distill it down in terms of priorities? Where would you begin? If you were us Do you want me to focus on the organo? Halogens or all of the three issues? I think the three issues will have a little more clarity when we hear from nas with regards to What their recommendations are right now? We're all sort of we're just waiting for that to be to be sent to us Sure that makes sense. Well, I think that What's a priority about artificial turf is that it's millions of kids exposed all the time and we don't know what's going to happen We don't know how it's affecting them now except that we know it is exacerbating asthma and obesity We know that it's contributing to early puberty There are children who are starting puberty at the ages of seven eight and nine And that's not only, you know, terrible psychologically, but also very dangerous physically so because Two reasons because there's so many kids exposed to materials that we know Can cause cancer and other more immediate health problems and because the companies that make these materials have actually Misled the public by saying the consumer about a safety commission says they're perfectly safe. They've said that I've been in been at Meetings of the state government in Maryland at hearings where they've said that they've said EPA says they're perfectly safe. They'll they say things that aren't true about our federal agencies Conclusions and that's very disturbing But at the same time they know that they have a branding problem. So they are replacing Tirecrumb with volcanic rock. I mean, I'm sorry. How can that be good to breathe in? You know may not be synthetic, but that doesn't mean mean it's good and safe. So Because oh and it's treated as trade secrets. So we don't even know what's in some of these materials So for that reason, I think that artificial turf and playgrounds when you think of you know, young kids playing for hours a day You know compared to teething toys, which of course go in the mouth So they're very important, but the exposure is so much higher. I mean Exponentially higher. So for that reason, I think it's uh, Really important and I will say, uh, you know, my my kids are old enough that they had very little exposure to artificial turf But I've got a grandchild now. So now I have to think about that too Organo halogen flame retardants as you said you're waiting for but again The exposure is enormous in our homes and we don't see it and we don't know what's going on and how it affects us And then uh sports helmets I think as a parent we all assume that these helmets are really helping and protecting and they are But they aren't perhaps protecting as much as we think and there's nobody to make sure that they are and Certainly you would want to protect against the most serious head injuries that makes sense But you'd also want the more common head injuries, which are not as serious but can You know take off a few IQ points and can do other things None of us want to happen either to our children our grandchildren or ourselves So I guess that's my summary. Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, is more I I wanted to address the what you mentioned about the FOIA and the IG report and I do think that this FOIA npr that is currently out there that we will be working on next week Is in response to that and we are trying to modernize FOIA and doing it within addressing some of the current concerns we heard this morning, but again, we would Welcome from Industry as well as the consumer groups any comments and thoughts you may have on it We heard from the panel this morning miss coals With regards to how we can streamline it and and so we look forward to hearing from that And we look forward to resolving the issue and hopefully making FOIA more efficient and more effective within the agency Um, I and I also want to just address on the iot The mention about a cpsc taking leadership role and we have and we have pedia dare As the iot leading the effort in the agency and Our mid-year just came up today So hopefully we can add some resources to iot within the mid-year plan and Make sure the agency is positioned along with other government agencies and on april 23rd There was an intergovernmental agency meeting where we began not we but they began to discuss The various lanes for the various government agencies so we all know what each other is doing and we can address Whatever is ours within under our jurisdiction. So that is well underway and we'll continue to do so So just wanted to make that clear Mr. Gregg, um, I just wanted to ask a question about your first paragraph You mentioned about Focusing you were eager to see cpsc increase its focus on addressing product safety hazards through mandatory standards On a number of issues including window coverings portable generators high power magnets tipovers among others. So I would just would are you saying not in lieu of the voluntary standards or? Yes, um, correct in in lieu of the voluntary standards In the belief that We should be getting the most robust standards For for some of these I mean, especially when we've seen that some of the voluntary standards are not working As well as they should for example portable standards portable generators. So it would be in lieu of Okay, and so I guess I think it's important to understand how the agency works and that is our statute directs us to address a hazard First through the voluntary standard make sure it addresses the hazard and their substantial compliance And if there is not then we pursue a mandatory standard But I I think there's a little bit of a misunderstanding the agency just because we are pursuing a voluntary standard Does not mean that the mandatory standard the voluntary standard works does inform the mandatory standard work And so whenever we're working on a voluntary standard that work that research that data Is and can be used and will be used in whether or not we need to develop a mandatory standard But it isn't in lieu of but they they work tandemly so I am now going to turn it over. Mr. K for his questions commissioner K Thank you, madam chair and thank you to commissioner adler for flipping with me for this round Unfortunately, I have to leave after my questions, but I Will promise to the panelists to watch the remainder of the hearing Tomorrow morning with the rest of the commissioners Ms. Kern, I'd like to start with you please and on the inaccessibility of lead in apparel Just so I can understand it better because I don't recall this issue coming up before at least in the last few years Is so if the child ends up for instance, if there's a zipper that's covered or a button That's covered in apparel, but the child still ends up mouthing or sucking on that zipper or button Is it your position or the association's position that that should be considered inaccessible? That's that is correct any Component part of an apparel product that's covered in fabric. We believe that fabric should be able to serve as an inaccessibility Barrier And so have you done any studies in terms of child's children behavior in accessing that in saliva and the ability to mouth That has any data been collected on that I'm not aware of of data on that. I would consider Thinking about that sort of process logically the child may be able to You know put a in apparel product in their mouth, but as far as I would consider that kind of akin to like licking a toy or other product that's that Is outside of or larger than that five centimeter designation for other inaccessible parts. I would I would consider those to be quite similar in accessibility For a child. Okay. Thank you very much. I miss more electronic reporting and this idea of Expanding electronic reporting is actually something We looked at a few years ago and the challenge that we actually faced in terms of trying to find some way to provide Some certainty let's call it certainty. So if you are if somebody reports and provides a certain number of data elements Completely they could be in return provided some certainty that they have met their obligation I think the big one of the biggest challenges and you would be in a position to help us address this Is how to treat retailers that act as private laborers because obviously under our section 15 b regulation If you are a retailer versus a manufacturer, you have different reporting obligations And we struggle to figure out how we would know the difference And so it's not something you necessarily have to answer now But if that's something that you can provide us In terms of how we if we were to try to set up a system and we had one set of data elements tracking our reg That were for manufacturers and another for retailers because clearly retailers are in possession often of less information Than the manufacturer But in those situations where the retailer crosses over and becomes a manufacturer and that's not necessarily something We would have visibility into how would we address that does that make sense? Yeah, that makes sense I think we're happy to part you partner with you on that and try and find some solutions to that because I think there are some Great. Thanks. That's a discussion. I'd like to continue to have course. Thank you Dr. Zacherman. Good to see you again That can't help but talk about helmets obviously it's something that I've spent a long time during my career here at cpsc And agree with you completely that it would be great to have helmets that were designed To mitigate not only the risk of concussions, which is an acute injury, but long term Chronic head or brain trauma from what we call sub concussive hits So for those of you who are football fans and you envision two offensive or an offensive lineman and a defensive lineman that collide every play on the snap They are not registering rotational linear acceleration levels that would traditionally be considered to be at a concussive level But there's certainly sustaining brain trauma every play. And if you look at somebody who plays From youth leagues through middle school to high school and even beyond that is thousands and thousands of sub concussive hits to the head that are really alarming and And from the literature that i've seen that's actually a longer term concern for somebody's brain health Then sustaining one or two diagnosed concussions the point of all that is It's very challenging from a biomechanical Aspect and i'm curious to know What if you're in possession of any research or know of any research That would help us provide the kinds of guidelines that you're looking for because I think that we all share a desire To play a constructive role in this space. I just have never seen any kind of research That would allow us to say if you design a helmet that does this You can safely claim to be Impacting the amount of sub concussive or concussive blows to the brain Well, I I can't off the top of my head to give you a simple answer. I'm happy to come get back to you on that I agree with you. It's very complicated. We obviously can't do studies where we expose some children To this kind of injury with this kind of helmet and this kind of injury with a different kind of helmet I mean that makes it very very hard to study But we are learning a lot more about the brain and we have You know medical devices that can scan the brain and we can learn more that way and Have learned a lot more that way. So I think that I don't want to say any regulation is better than no regulation, but I do think that it Not only are the regulations currently Inadequate, but Parents have no idea Um, I mean I I for myself, you know, my kids had bike helmets I didn't know I was supposed to replace them every year or something like that. You know, nobody told me I had no idea So it's it's an informational issue too And I think there's a lot that the consumer product safety commission can do to at least Provide that kind of information As you know parents are Voting with their feet so to speak and fewer kids are trying out for football and so on So parents are concerned, but they don't even know what to be concerned about Yeah, and I'm a parent who has boys playing sports And so I completely understand that and I struggle with even Knowing what the agency can do at this point beyond trying to continue to track and monitor the research and encourage more Collaboration and research. I can say it's a very challenging area and even with the Advancements in brain imaging and computer modeling. I still don't think we're there unfortunately and I get not as much as I used to But I get still relatively frequent calls to my office saying we've solved the problem with x product And it's always the same thing They've been able to show in lab that their material can mitigate to some extent some of the forces that would pass through that Material but what that means in terms of concussion reduction or more importantly as I mentioned Degenerative brain condition from repeated sub concussive hits They can't say at all because there's just no science to go there. And so I'd like to see us do more I you have a very ready willing in a or at least willing group I just don't know if we have the ability to do more So I wanted to at least share that with you but open if there's more stuff that comes On artificial turf, I think that the issues are slightly different Obviously during the obama administration. We were able to get this off the ground It was envisioned at that time that epa would take the lead on artificial turf and we would do playgrounds. I think the agency has done Basically what we can do The issue that we see unfortunately is that epa has not followed through on the commitment that it had made And so all the basic tox work that we were expecting to be completed that we could work off of and use our exposure analysis to try to Provide some of these answers at least for playgrounds has not been done and not been provided to us So we're in a tough spot resource wise to figure out how to move forward on this because if epa Is not going to do this. We're not even remotely funded at a level I mean we could maybe pick off two chemicals But you listed only some of the ones that are in there's a lot of chemicals in there And I'm not taking a position on the safety or lack thereof. I'm just saying there are a lot of chemicals in there so It's going to be a long haul. I still think we can continue our playground work But at some point in the absence of epa Doing its part on the tox work. We're going to come to a standstill and I don't know if congress has to get involved or what but I think that that work has to happen for us to be able to do our part Yeah, if I could just mention that I think the the newer studies about lead And playgrounds and fields is new. I mean this is I mean we knew something about lead But we didn't know how high it could be and I think you know, everybody understands that lead is bad It's not as controversial as phthalates So I think that that puts us in a somewhat different position And if I may I just want to say in the same way that lead has dust that gets into it I would be concerned about buttons with lead that you're sucking because the dust is coming up Even if it's covered with fabric Yeah, and I appreciate the point about lead and playgrounds and obviously that's something we can take a look at But we still have to do the exposure Scenarios to make sure that we can act but thank you for that and then Mr. Gregg in the remaining time that I have it's 6b has been described As being beneficial for consumers. I don't know if you've heard that before but it's been Almost it sounds like a panacea. It solves all of our problems. It makes everybody happy Why would we ever want to mess with that? But have you ever? I've never heard any advocacy organization ever or any consumer Ever say to me that 6b is helping them and they're really glad it's there Have you ever had any advocacy organization ever take the position that 6b is good for consumer safety? Never I don't even I'm trying to think of the rationale for that and I I can't think of any And then you just look at as it's being said time again. There's no other agency that has that restriction Some make the argument that there needs to be extra safeguards, but we've got health and safety agencies That are doing their jobs that don't have it and Going farther than that it It presents a roadblock to ensuring that health and safety critical Information is put out there. Great. Thank you for that. Thank you again, madam chair and thank you commissioner adler Thank you very much commissioner k commissioner adler And thank you very much madam chairman. Um, miss more I didn't want to make a quick comment about retailers. I think more often than not you've been great partners for us More than opponents and I really hope we can continue that relationship because I think at times retailers have been able to act when We haven't been able to and others won't so I really want to commend rila for doing that So you did raise an interesting issue with respect to the retail reporting program and that's been something that has been A point of great concern to me over time and one of the great things that I am concerned about is that we get What I call data dumps where it's very hard when we look at the information that's coming in to separate signal from noise Um, and one of the points you made which is not an unreasonable point is that If we do get adequate information From a retailer that that be treated as meeting the requirements for an initial report under 15b You are very careful to say just an initial report But I just wanted to remind you that our regs say that if you filed an initial report, then you are required To submit a full report. It's an automatic requirement. And I guess my question is How often is it your sense that companies that submit Information through the retailer reporting program are then following up with full reports and how many of them are even cognizant of that requirement You know what commissioner adler. Thank you for the question. I appreciate that I have to go back and talk to some members who actually participate in the program And get their feedback and get their understanding about How they're delineating their initial report from the more full report But I think there's a way that we can thread this needle and I think there there's a way that Companies who participate in this program And I'm just thinking off the cuff here if there's a way to flag something as also needing additional information once it gets You've used the word I've used which is there needs to be it seems to be a red flag for Retail reporting where if you're submitting what I call the data dump that you have yourself the retailer Look through the information sifted it and said these are the ones that are a particular concern and they isolate them And let the commission know otherwise You know how limited our resources are we just really lack at times the ability to process this so it's program that I I think in the abstract makes sense, but at least as it's being applied today I'm a little Concerned about how it's going to work But you did make another point which I think is terrific Which is we are now in the age of not only big data But big data analytics and you made mention of that and I find that intriguing Can you give any additional details? You don't necessarily have to do it now But any additional details that would help us with the approach to the analytics for this massive amount of data that's coming in Sure. I mean, I don't think I can endorse one system over the other But I do think as technology moves forward this problem of having too much data is Can be mitigated because of the technology tools that are out there right now it can be sifted and it can be understood and Line items where before you'd have to go through line by line to figure out what was going on Can now be tracked using trigger words and a variety of other tools And I will say that the expansion of the r.r.p. Program Is important to retailers But I think it can't be done and it can't be done well until and less than until There are better data analytics and it systems put in place by the agency because Just getting more Needle haystacks doesn't mean you're going to be able to find the needles any better I couldn't have put any better than that. Thank you for that Dr. Zuckerman. It's great to see you again. Welcome back and I did want to Address this comment that you've heard and I've heard it too that cpsc says that the crumb rubber is safe And the truth is we've never said that but the one thing at least to my knowledge. We've never said is that it's unsafe I've talked to staff about this and here's what staff tentatively not any sort of definitive final conclusion have said is that What the chemicals that are in crumb rubber are horrible chemicals, you know heavily toxic But and the the argument always is they're so Tightly bound that they don't get out even in a hot humid day The vapor you see rising from the field is not the toxic chemicals and so on So I guess my question is uh, do you have any information that will help at least me understand what the The particular risks are with crumb rubber intuitively. They seem very very serious, but uh, are there are the research studies that would help us on that Sure. Thanks. Um, so some of the studies that I Mentioned in my power point and I'm happy to provide more information You know did measure what's in the air And did find, you know, these toxic chemicals in the air I don't know if they were looking on project, you know, with Particularly hot days or not hot days or whatever, but I'll find out and that would be important to know um The other studies that have been done, you know, it depends on the material So the crumb rubber in a field is different in the sense that it's these pieces it's it's um, actually tons and tons of uh, crumb rubber on on a field and It gets in It gets in kids clothes. It gets in the laundry, you know, it ends up in your washing machine or your dryer I don't know what it's doing there. Nobody's ever studied that But I don't want it and um, and we also know that kids When it's on a playground and the playground Rips gets ripped up Go to any local playground near your home And you'll see little pieces and some of the little pieces are black and some of the little pieces are very pretty colors And kids like them and they play with them and they put them in their mouth And they get stuff on their fingers and they put their fingers in their mouth So we know they're being exposed. The only thing we don't know is how much and how much would you need to be exposed for it to make a difference We don't know that and I agree with you. Um, and we always try to explain this To legislators. There's a world of difference between There is no evidence that this is harmful and this isn't harmful They're not the same thing at all Thank you. And I do have one other question about organo halogen and the ofr's I have nightmares About the fact that uh, there isn't a single person in this room that doesn't have Ofr's in their bodies and I think I asked this question before but I honestly can't remember the answer If we were to go back 100 years, would we have found the same level of ofr's in people's bodies? Oh, I don't think so. How about 50 years? I don't think so. So in other words, what we have is an Exploding amount of ofr's that are ending up in people's bodies and one of the points that's often argued to me is That, you know, there's x number of deaths from fires every year And that's obviously a matter of great concern But then when you contrast that to the millions and millions of people who are exposed to ofr's You're trying to get a sense of perspective. I wonder if you have any comments about that Well, in addition to the perspective of You know preventing a few fires versus everybody being exposed, but there's also the firefighters themselves Are often more damaged by the chemicals of these flame retardants that when the even though they're not In flames there's smoke When there's a fire and there's this You know material with flame retardants in it and they're breathing in the smoke and it can you know cause cancer and other things You know terrible lung diseases So that in many cases the smoke is more dangerous to the firefighters than the fire would be Madam chair at this point an idea just struck me. You asked me to Press the question, but I thought I would just defer my time What is remaining to me for you to ask the question if that's okay. That's very kind of you. Thank you Dr. Zacharman, I just was wondering in terms of your comments regarding Concussions and head injuries and all that has been said here today Do you have any experience with the inflatable helmets and are you familiar with the helmets? Havding is making and they're over in europe and being used in sweden and france and some other countries in europe I've heard of them, but I haven't looked at the data on them And I don't know if how good the data are, but I'd be happy to get back to you on that I would appreciate that very much. Thank you Just I was going to ask uh, mr. Greg a question about 6b, but I thought that commissioner k Summarized the issue much more succinctly and much more accurately and I thought your answer responded wonderfully to that so actually I Have no further questions. Thank you very much. Commissioner baoko Thank you Ms. Kern thank you for your comments today about Your members who have been so kind with regard to The most recent release of data from this agency I I think that their positive approach to this has been quite a gift to the agency under the circumstances So please pass along our thanks for that Um, this more with regard to the retail reporting program I I do think that it needs to be revamped and revisited And um commissioner Feldman and I proposed an amendment during the budget period to update our software And I think what I heard you say and please correct me if I'm mistaken But there is plenty of software out there that could sort through You know, even the worst had a dump to give us what we are actually seeking. I I think that's what you meant I believe that's correct Okay, so there's a lot of ways to go about doing that and the idea of the retail reporting Program is certainly a good one, but I do think it's fallen Victim if you will to just large amounts of data that the agency hasn't been able to really capitalize on and I do think that's something I'd like to see us work on so Certainly willing to hear any suggestions that your organization or members have Great. I look forward to parking partnering with the agency on this and getting the rrp off the ground again. Great. Thank you Dr. Zuckerman, thank you for your presentation. I found it incredibly interesting I don't know a lot about the issues that you've spoken about. I have done just some Research into the kerm rubber issue in my prior life And it's a much bigger issue than we have time to discuss today But the one question that pops into my mind as we're sitting here is let's let's just assume we get rid of it What's our alternative are we back to asphalt or is there a different alternative for these playgrounds? What would be the best scenario in your mind? Well, if you want to go Geez, I think it's half a mile from here at norwood park right off wisconsin avenue There's a they have what's called engineered wood fiber It's small pieces of wood that doesn't sound very soft But actually it's amazingly spongy because it's a lot of it, I guess And that's one of the materials that seems to be really good because it it absorbs falls Um, it doesn't cause splinters apparently because of the way it's made And it doesn't have any of these chemicals in it and it costs in a cost You know, I think less or you know comparable and it does need to be maintained like any Playground would need to be but that would be a good a good option that At least some of the Montgomery county and some of the other local Jurisdictions have started using not so much in dc though in dc. It's Colorful rubber everywhere. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. I don't have anything else Thank you very much commissioner feldman Thank you And thank you all for being here today. I think I'm the last ones. I'll try to wrap this up quickly Ms. Kern, I'm glad that you mentioned counterfeits in your prepared remarks This is probably one of the largest concerns and frustration that I'm hearing consistently from industry and Frankly from your industry in particular But not exclusively It's my sense that this is a problem that extends beyond cpsc's jurisdiction. We're a Safety regulator not an ip regulator, but I do recognize that there's a strong nexus between authenticity and safety I'm interested right now in hearing more about how industry is pursuing innovative solutions to combat counterfeiting Including blockchain applications that might be deployed to improve traceability Is this something that your members are working on or have have deployed? I can't speak to what programs they're using if it's blockchain specifically but given the amount of Interest our members And especially financial interests that they have in protecting their brands and educating their consumers about what genuine and authentic and safe products look like Yes, I think our companies are looking into any innovative and new solution that they can use to protect their Brand and intellectual property as well as preventing unsafe counterfeits from ending up in consumers hands I'd be interested in hearing more about what their experience has been and what role if any cpsc might play in this area um Ms. Moore, I want to ask you. I know that you've talked extensively about it today But I want you to talk a little bit more about the retailer reporting program Um, why it's important how we might expand it Sure. Thank you. I appreciate that. I would say the biggest benefit to the retailer reporting retailer reporting program Is just the standardization of the data So it can come in from any number of places and as I mentioned in my testimony potentially doing a tiered level participation buy-in so that you could get The same information coming in the same format directly to the agency, which I think is really important I think because it is standardized It's able to be malleable and maneuvered and manipulated to to determine any number of outcomes and maybe The idea is to find product safety hazards much sooner and I think that's exactly what the data can do I would say third also While consumers may or may not know about safer products.gov Knowing about is step number one Reporting actually submitting a report is step number two And I think consumers don't do that very often But you know what they do do they do contact their retailers whenever they're looking for a refund or Reacting to a recall or they call the manufacturer directly So I think the agency could and should harness that data as much as they can Is this excuse that oh, it's too much data an acceptable excuse in 2019 Uh Not in my opinion, but There has to be a way to manage the data and there has to be a way to understand it because as I mentioned to commissioner adler Just having more data isn't helpful unless you have the right tools to analyze it But those tools and solutions do exist It's my understanding and are widely deployed elsewhere throughout the federal government that I can't answer okay, um Ms. Moore and miss kern. I want to thank you both for Raising a recent data breach in in your prepared remarks It's my sense based on your statement that uh that your members have a great deal of pause about our ability to keep sensitive consumer pii and Six be protected corporate information confidential um Is it possible that the breach might have a chilling effect on firm's ability or or willingness to report above and beyond What's required under section 15? I don't know that I can speak definitively to that. I think there's potential but I think companies in good faith likely It's hard to say I guess I should say it's very difficult at this stage in the game to know exactly What the impact of this Unintentional release could be miss karn. I would Say we we are on the same page on that for the most part. Um, I I suspect that it could have that effect it's important that companies continue to have faith in in the organization Are in the agency and and an ability to partner with with the agency does come from Knowing that certain information as is um agreed upon in in the law is is maintained I hear that Is it your sense that cpsc is doing everything in its power to respond to this breach with transparency and accountability? I I guess I'll say that our um, you know, I can't necessarily speak to the capacity of staff but our our members who have been affected by this incident would Certainly appreciate more information. Um and are struggling with the information that they have currently Whether that's, um, you know full capacity of the staff or not. I I can't say but You know full information as to what was released is is helpful to our companies right now in in proceeding I appreciate that and and I hear you Dr. Zuckerman, um, we you covered this a little bit in your back and forth with uh commissioner k I'll ask the question a little bit more directly. Do you believe that helmets can prevent concussions? Yes Okay, but you know Don't trust me. No, I mean I I believe it, but you know, it's it's very hard to know because the data are not there Uh, it makes sense that they can We don't know how often they do Okay, thank you. And uh, finally mr. Remington Uh in your remarks you urge the commission to collaborate with technologists to help it achieve its safety mission Do you think it makes sense for cpsc to hire a chief technologist as so many of our sister agencies have done? I think it makes sense Obviously, you're going to have to weigh that decision with the resources that you have but you could also think about partnering with other organizations um, why not um partner with the ftc for example to use theirs um, so I think there are there are many ways to get a to To to solve the problem. Um, it's just a question of the willingness to do so the willingness or the resources I'm hearing sort of both in your answer. Well, I mean if the will I don't know if the willingness is there from all all five members um, so uh, but Hopefully the resources and the willingness is there and I would urge you to to do so because there are so many issues that I believe would Benefit from a technologists expertise. Okay. I appreciate that and I don't want to keep everybody here longer than we need to be I want to thank you all for being here. That's that concludes my questions Thank you very much commissioner Feldman and again, thank you to all of you for being here miss kern miss more Dr. Zuckerman and mr. Gregg We do appreciate your time and Your comments here today and your willingness to answer questions This third panel concludes our uh panels for today and again the commission greatly appreciates all of your input As a reminder, um, I said it in this morning in my comments. The record will be kept open for one week So for any of the information that maybe you have been asked for Or has been requested from you the record will be open and you can provide it to the agency And I would appreciate you doing so I want to acknowledge for the record that we did receive additional written comments from people who were not able to testify here today Those comments were received from Janet McGee the lyfted lcc lc Dan mustico from the outdoor power equipment institute Nancy nord from the magnet safety association Andy counts from the american home furnishings alliance Kimberley immato from megan's hope lisa seaford from shane's foundation Brett horn from charlie's house Nancy blogan from the national fireworks association Nancy nord from hovding of sweden And a joint submission from the american academy of pediatrics and consumer federation of america consumer reports kids in danger north american society for pediatrics gastroenterology Heptology and nutrition and the u.s public interest research group This written testimony, of course will be reviewed closely and we are very grateful again for the submission of those comments Finally i want to thank our executive director and her staff the office of the secretary office of facilities Office of general counsel in the office of communications for all of their efforts to make Today's public hearing happen and run so smoothly with the exception of the lights Thank you again to all three participants of all three panels and those who submitted written comments And also those attending and watching online. We do appreciate your engagement with this agency It's critical for us to accomplish our mission. This concludes the public meeting of the united states consumer product safety commission. Thank you