 space properties. And then, essentially, West of Marifor would be outside the city's area and in Boulder county out to liars. Have I seen some stuff in the media about Save Our State bringing that group being against this because of some wildlife habitat that's been changed, can you say that today? I'm not sure. I've seen where, like, Dan said, we've had conversations with that group, but it's in the bank swallow habitat, which exists right over here between this building and Rogers Grove. That habitat exists on a cut bank right there, which is what's necessary to provide their nesting opportunities. And this is a certain soil type saloon to do that as well. So Josh has been involved with this project since the beginning when things long went really done is trying to make sure that we're looking at our natural resources, maintaining and enhancing a bunch as possible. So I think there are some opportunities for us to maintain habitat in that area. That specific site will definitely be impacted, but because we have enough topography, there's definitely ways we can look at that. So Josh, you want to talk to me about where we are? Are not locked into any specific piece at this point because it has not been designed yet? Right. To date, what's been completed is really a conceptual level design for this reach, including some alternatives for how we would cross over or bring the flows under over south of the existing creek. So once we do secure funding, that's the time to really sharpen the pencil and take a look at environmental permitting, final design aspects, things like that before we would go to construction. So like David said, we are aware of potential issues, whether they're environmental or otherwise, and we've identified those, but until we can secure some funding and take a closer look and hire the right consultants and subject matter experts, we haven't taken that step yet. We're also even looking at potentially constructing some artificial sites. I hope that's to say that. If you've been involved with Walden Ponds, one of the golden pine properties, that old gravel pit has some old gravel piles, and the banks walls that have been made, and that's great into that. So we're looking at literature from, we're going from locally up to Canada that's done manufactured habitat to see if that's really an opportunity, and we'll be looking at that. So that's some of the stuff that I work with here, and then Bob Allen and the operations that I can see if we can construct that. If that nesting area was impacted from more than a season, that's what I think Josh has some flexibility in how we, not even the design, but how we break the contract as well so that we aren't impacted in more than one season because they are obligated not to impact them during the nesting season, because they do fall out of the micro grid bird app. So if they're nesting there, we cannot impact them. Once they leave those nests, we can go in there and do the work. If we could get that done in one season, that would be great if not we're looking at opportunities to do something. Josh, I think you captured it here. Great, thank you. Thank you. Any questions? One more if we can. So I think I saw one of the advantages that was suggested was that we'd be securing the interest rates over time. Do I have that right for the bonds, for like what we'd be paying in interest over time? We're at the look part of business service. I think my, yeah, I'm really trying to get to is that there's not much information on the financial side of this. What are the advantages we're actually paying for? Because as we may have noticed, their interest rates have changed a little bit in the past couple of months. So I'm kind of curious into that. I can speak to that. The our finance department staff are constantly looking for ways to address bonds. We've issued previously to see if we can get better interest rates. And so there have been occasions, you know, we bonded a bunch of different projects over the years in the city, and they're continually not only paying them off, but also looking for opportunities to pay them down or negotiate better interest rates. So I think there's opportunities to be looking at that over the years that we're paying them off. I don't know if we even know what we're going to be tying into. Yeah, okay. Time for the thousands. Sure. So, okay. And that's because I can have it send back to this group too. I can go to their business services group to see if we can get better interest rates. This is on the ballot in a month, correct? And there's 20 million, the number. How do we know between interest rates and you haven't done the design? How did you pick 20 million? So based on the conceptual level of engineering, we do have an estimate of it's about 21 million dollars for total for the project. That includes roughly 15 million dollars in storm drainage improvements and approximately five to six million dollars for out of the street fund for the bridge crossing on Hover. So combine those two storm drainage fund and street fund. That's where we're estimating the 21 million dollars. So in fact, this ballot initiative for 20 million was initially, you know, what staff has been talking to council about in the past has been 15 million. And it's been increased to that 20 million to try to provide some contingency for inflationary costs that we're seeing, you know, across the board. Also, staff is actively looking for, you know, grant opportunities from the state and the federal government to help fund portions of the project as well. We've got a ton of money for the other part of resiliency, right? Correct. A lot of it through FEMA through the disaster recovery through the 2013 flood. Some through HUD as well through the same disaster in 2013. And then, yes, we are partnering with the Army Corps of Engineers through their 205 program for actually the upcoming reach that's funded from Boston to Sunset. Right. That's where I read that. My direction is correct. Right here outside of Magic Walton to reconstruct that, that levy between the creek and the pond. So our ballot initiative is 20 million plus interest or is the total will the city will pay 20 million over the bond issue in life? It's 20 million dollars over 30 years, plus whatever the interest is during the period. It's just like Morgan, you know. Okay. Got it. Let me just add, every reach of the same resiliency project and every other capital approval project in the city of Longmont for as long as Longmont's been around, the cost has been estimated the same way the cost are for this project. That's just nothing different here. Okay. What might be different here is the outside expertise that Josh referred to, the consultant that the city brought in to do this estimate. So the methodology for estimating costs are exactly the same as we've always done it. Every bond question that's been put in front of this electorate has been the calculations in the methodology have been exactly the same. Oh, okay. So this one's no different. In Josh's right, we originally estimate 15 million and given what's happened with the cost of everything, we raised that by five million dollars. The council. We need to be doing something as a board here, sending feedback or just, this was a FYI. Just want to take the opportunity to bring this information to the board. Thanks. Vote for one. Oh, us individually. You're not going to tell me how to vote, right? Josh, what would the other one be? If you go back one page and back to the ballot landing page, so it should go back. Are you narrating, Scott? No, that wasn't me. That was Dallas. That was Dallas. City Charter Amendments, if you scroll down a little bit. These are Scott's web pages. Visit the City Charter Amendments webpage right there. And there'll be a live video. I'll just hear that. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. During the November 2022 election, the Longan City Council was asking voters to consider two ballot issues that streamline our City Charter. The City Charter is the founding document that governs city operations. On the first ballot issue, changes include allowing the city to use electronic signatures on council documents, allowing city employees who don't live in Longan to take part in city retirement boards, allowing administrative approval from low or no cost agreements with other governmental entities, providing city election rules with the state's election rules. Here is the ballot wording the voters will see. Shall the City of Longan Home Rule Charter be amended by revising sections 2.4, 3.3, 3.6, 3.9, 7.1, and 13.7 of the Charter to remove outdated language and allow for modernization of the conduct of city business? A yes vote means you are changing the City Charter to allow for streamlining these operations. A no vote means you are not changing the Charter and business will continue as it is currently conducted. Arguments 4 and against. Those in favor believe that amending certain sections of the City Charter would modernize and streamline city operations. Those against believe that residents should not change the Charter, which is the master document for city governance. The Longan City Council is also asking voters to consider changing the Charter with respect to election vacancies. Currently, when a city council member wants to run for another position, such as mayor, during their term, if they win, a special election is needed to fill that vacancy. Council will like to offer an option where city council members can voluntarily end their term as they run for another. This will allow the city to run the election for both seats simultaneously and save the cost and labor of a special election in these cases. Here is the ballot wording the voters will see. Shout the city of Longan, home loan Charter, be amended, or revise section 2.8 of the Charter to give elected city officials running for another elected office the option of prospectively vacating their current office to avoid the burden and expense of a subsequent election. What your vote means? A yes vote means you are changing the city Charter to create this option regarding election vacancies. A no vote means you are not changing the Charter and election vacancies will be filled through a special election if a sitting council member is elected to another office halfway through their term. Arguments 4 and against. Those 4 believe making this change could save money and time by not needing to conduct a special election. Making this change could help ensure that a mayor and six council members are serving the city without unnecessary vacancies. Those against believe residents should not change the Charter which is the master document for city governance. It is not clear that candidates would use this option if it were available. We ask you to spend time researching the issues, ask questions if you have them, and most importantly, vote. Election day is November 8th. What's the word prospective in this change? Well, let me just personalize them. This was my motion. I looked right at you. Well, and I had the option when I declared I was running for mayor. I asked the question, can I resign as of election day? If you win? If I know one way or another. So you would be out? I would be out. And I would have done this. I would have said, look, it'll save the city. When I was elected in this special election, it cost the city, as I recall, $65,000. And it was a three month delay between when Brian Bagley was elected when I was elected my fellow seat. For the interest of saving money and continuity, I would have resigned my word one seat. So this had I been able to do it effective election day. So the city could have announced in opening, a candidate could have run concurrent, right, as in a special election. Had I won for mayor, it would have been continuity in word one. Had I not, there would have been a new council member and there's continuity moving forward, depending on what happens with the other candidates. But the perspective here is the proposal wasn't to make a requirement. So had Joe and I both done that and we had the option, there would have been continuity. We would not have needed the special election. We wouldn't have gone a year without a vacancy on the council. And we would have moved forward. I guess that was my question, was whether you are vacating your seat, whether you win or lose. Yes. Or only if you don't get to be mayor. You would vacate your seat. Win or lose. Yes, great. Okay. With the current rules required, if I were to announce it on the other side, I have to do it that day or a day, six days, enough prior to the election. Right? Ah. It's fortunate to declare. Right. Right. And personally, I felt like if you're going to do it, if you're going to do it, you ought to do it six months ahead of time to give somebody to really run a, you know, Meanwhile, you got no help. So now you have a vacancy. Six months, right? I didn't feel like that was fair to word one folks. Yeah. Now the word one folks would have said, get them out of there. I just didn't, you know, I just felt like I had my obligation was not to vacate the seat that I was elected to unless I knew that there would be continuity. But that's all this, all this does is create the option for a sitting council member who wants to run for mayor to say, I'm going to resign, run a special election. It saves both money and offers continuity. Well, maybe I'm dumb, but that all should be explained better in whatever ballot, you know, background of info is. Sign my term, what's in the blue book? Yeah, I don't, I don't have a reddit either, but I hope that that's clear. I don't know. I guess that's something for me and who does that stick to. Thank you. I appreciate it. I now know what's going on, but I hope the rest of the city does. Yeah. Any other questions from board members? Yeah. Okay. Dr. Scott, thank you. Thanks for the afternoon. Appreciate it. I'm going to go ahead and maybe just do a quick introduction of a topic here that we have on the system, talk on the past, and it's about the historic Dickens barn that's out on Highway 119 in Slaten. And in that development, the goal was to remove the barn in the buildings. But the historic preservation board has recommended there's a way that we can keep that. We should do that. We have looked at that barn and looked at its significance and have found that it really does kind of check all the boxes of being significant to one line in our historic settlement of this area. What we're really looking at is the fact that if the developer is able to donate this building and some property to give us access to it, would the city want to take that? The thing with getting something given to the city, it means there's structures associated, there's safety associated with it, there's long-term maintenance associated with that. So is this something that would be valuing enough of the city to invest dollars from operations and maintenance and facilities group to take this on, to try and make sure that we preserve a structure within our community that has a lot of significant value? That's kind of my big picture piece on it. I have looked at this and I think that from the oldest base in Parkside, we have some resources that could help with that. But we would like to see if this group feels that this property has value to the city and I'm going to introduce our planning director. Go ahead, do you want to? Yeah, Glenn Benham-Wigan. And then we have a couple of HPC members, our chairman Steve Lane and Doug Barnard is a commissioner as well. And then Jennifer Hewitt-Aprison is our liaison to the HPC. So maybe just a little bit more background is set 11 once bill on the site. They got a conditional use permit approval with the requirement that HPC approve a preservation plan. And what we were thinking was signage, something that kind of explained the really significant history of the Dickinson and the Mariel and Homestead here on the site. The HPC saw some of the same reports that you did and this is really rather unique in that it hits all four criteria for historic designation on the national stage, basically. And I think I was just kind of breezing through that report this evening and saw that it really says it parallels the history of Longmont prior to anything being here and closely tracks kind of the development of the community of Longmont as well. Some other kind of interesting facts is Mary Allen came here with her husband and owned the property. His name was Alonzo and they gave birth to William Dickinson. He started the first bank of Colorado, I think, in the area and the Dickinson Opera House is named after him. He started that. Mary divorced Alonzo. It's kind of unusual back in 1870. And then because of that, she was able to actually acquire the property that was originally acquired under the Homestead. It's one of the few reasons a single woman could acquire a property at the time. So, I don't know, Steve, if you want to add anything about it. I guess part of the piece that we looked at is that it had nothing to do with their development. It was well outside of everything that the property owner wanted to utilize. So, it would just be torn down by default. The structure is really not in terrible condition. It's actually a pretty decent shape. We would take some, the city's done some research and you're probably aware of it in your packet in terms of some dollars that need to go towards restoration and stabilization. But there's also some grant money that could be available through the State Historical Fund to help pay for that. And it's got some architectural significance in terms of its shape and style and its status. So, when we think about Longmont history, a lot of people pay attention to downtown and the east and west side neighborhoods, but we've got a pretty rich agricultural history. And that's really in danger of being swallowed up and lost. So, we just were really pushing to see if there's a way to preserve that. And it felt like it integrated with your trail system and we could have kind of a giant win-win here where, you know, I completely acknowledged that we were passing this torch onto another board to that there's some maintenance costs associated with it. But in terms of acknowledging Longmont's agricultural history and the preservation of open space and what people do when they get on the trail and having an opportunity to have historical interpretation it felt like just a really opportunity that is probably not going to come along too many times. So, we very much appreciate your willingness to consider. So, you hope this board will do what? As I understand it, we're hoping that you are going to accept taking on that piece of property as part of the park system. I think what we really talked about is having that property donated as city property and then we'll be able to design it. That's one of the things I think is this conversation has evolved. I think not locking into if it's an open space dedication or a park-desk dedication, but if we could lock it in something that would preserve that property as city-owned property and then we could look at potential funding mechanisms from something more than just one fund. So, I mean, it's up to your choice, right? I said, why don't we? Please, please. The biggest piece that I think is as far as staff- So, we should be writing a letter to the city council to say, go for it or who's making this call at this point? Who, I mean, who are you addressing? Who makes the final decision? Well, I think it depends on what we call it. If it's open space, I think it falls to the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board. As we talked with Jeff and David, there's so much cultural richness here. We could certainly call it a cultural piece of property. It is also an important kind of view-shed on Highway 119. It's one of the first things you see as you come in long months. So, it's kind of a gateway statement. So, and just a little bit of background. So, Jennifer's been working with the applicant. They're not the owners yet, but they soon will be. And they are willing to give us, it's roughly five acres, the barn and approximately 70 grand to get the barn. So, it doesn't fall down. I saw that in the statement 15 plus 65 or 55 or whatever those numbers were needed to keep it falling down. Right, right. And as Steve said, we'll look for additional funding. But I think we don't want to step on your toes either at this point. So, we're hoping the Parks and Recreation Advisory Board is, I guess, votes in support of accepting the dedication. That's what I was curious about. I think it is an acceptance of the dedication city of that staff, kind of the best way to then categorize it. And then we can move on. I think for Jeff and Glenn and myself, we've looked at, I think if we can get that stabilization done, it gives us time to really use our new grant coordinator to try to find dollars to really do long-term planning for that property. Steve said, I'm sorry. I just want to do, has there been any estimate of what the sort of long, you know, ongoing maintenance for this property might be? And also, is there any chance of getting, I mean, it sounds like the applicant is willing to make an initial contribution, but, you know, with like a conservation easement, there's usually an endowment that goes along with a conservation easement that provides for at least some of the ongoing maintenance. Is there any potential, like a contribution toward ongoing, like an endowment for ongoing maintenance? To be honest, we haven't thought that through, but that's a great vehicle to make sure it stays the way it is. I'm not sure what the maintenance responsibilities that come with the conservation easement is. Well, it's just the endowment is usually a fund that is available and kind of dedicated for the ongoing sort of in perpetuity in the case of an easement maintenance that's needed. And people can donate to it then? Well, it's like it usually comes from that owner. Yeah, no, it usually comes from that. Don't know that the applicant would be, the applicant has been jumping through a ton of groups for quite some time on this. I've just spoken quite a bit, you know, I don't know how amenable they would be to an ongoing endowment beyond the 7,000 stabilization costs, to be perfectly honest. This is a particular property where essentially the current owner of the property is kind of an all or nothing deal. They, you know, that property is really only one in five, a quarter. But the owner of the property was like, nope, it's all or nothing. So they're trying to figure out how we can deal with this as quickly as possible. I just really appreciate our chair recognizes sometimes feel like, well, why don't you take something that's free? And that that free does come at a long-term maintenance cost. I think in the near term, what we really want to do is probably the best able to save a little bit of dollars is put into that piece in place. And then honestly from the operational side of it, I can see our park staff or open space staff that has that weed skill management to go in there and kind of stay up on the weeds, maybe do some mowing for fire protection. And then probably doing some pretty minor fencing around it to make sure people aren't going to destructions as they love. So I think we have a pretty low threshold until we actually do get some grant funding in place to try to do some long-term planning. I think we're probably going to see a Q project. That's a great question. We've been there, you know, and I think, you know, stuff like that picture with the trail already, you know, if stones throw away, hopefully no stones are thrown. Now the trail will be there and signage possible, it seems like a winner to me. I mean, it's like, uh, why not? You know, I think the concern is, does it become something that, you know, are there trade-offs we should be aware of? If the city takes on this project or other projects that the city is already working on, that, you know, could be compromised by that. So I mean, that would be my only concern. It's not knowing what trade-offs we might be. The only thing out of it throughout there, this is my own personal confidence in some of our staff, if you give Jeff and his staff a chance to rent anything in the city, they'll make money off the books. But yeah, I think there's, well, probably long-term ways we could look at doing something that has a greater value than just be sitting there. David and I both believe that this is in the city's best interest to do this. We don't have all the answers, but we feel like what we know today, it is in the city's best interest to do this. So that sidewalk, I'm representing Scott here now, is going to go up to Union Reservoir. And what does the city own already, or will own, or what's the property boundaries going to look like? Is it going to be contiguous with this five-acre plot that the barn sits on? Well, yes, but there'll be a gulch between that spring gulch. Gosh, that's good clothes. And so you won't be able to go from the sidewalk here over to the barn unless you go up to the highway. Well, some day you get a grant to go to the bridge. Right. And I can think of probably 30 different places in our own city that are more getting in, but yes. Future citizens may get on a bandwagon. That's possible, yes. We will own land on both sides of the gulch, and yes, it could be that a bridge is installed at some point in the future. And then I'm not sure that, I think pretty much what I'm hearing, Jennifer, correct me if I'm wrong, is that 7-11 is going to sort of own this. Pretty much. We're taking everything else. Yep. Which goes up to the top of the picture. Goes, it does not include this lot. This is a private lot, but it actually includes land up here. Sort of comes like this. Yeah, the property. Yeah, it kind of goes, you kind of see it goes like this, and then kind of hooks around here. And so basically 7-11 is interested in this. Yes. And there might be some details on what we're talking about, because I'm taking an additional. Still, I see it talking to the greenway, or the halfway there, or at least getting up against it, so that makes sense to me. Right. And we talked to Glen about it, because we're going to carve this lot off, making sure that those future generations definitely have some place to park, and we have access. And again, we're not committing part dollars at this point in time. It's just trying to work with the sort of preservation group to allow this to happen. And then we will work to stabilize, and then we'll work on grants. So no commitment from parks or open space to go beyond the limited maintenance that they would do. So, I mean, the question was, doing a motion then, or? Dedication to the city. I'm just wondering what the right language is for motion. I think dedication to the city at this point in time, we can work that out. Or support the dedication to the city. And this is to go to city council, or to the HPC committee, or just out there in the world? Right now, I think we'll actually define it on their subdivision plan. What's their size? Okay. I don't know that we need a separate city council action. Okay. I mean, usually we make recommendations to a council. That's kind of our job, so to say. But we're, I mean, if all we need is a, hey, we're in favor to whom that they concern. I mean, I don't know, you know, that kind of thing. I'm not sure how to go, but anybody got thoughts about it? I think if you at least do a general motion that says you're... Sizing support. Yeah, I think not directed to anyone. I think you'd be okay. Can I ask one last question? Sure. I'm just going to make it in motion. So wouldn't the structure of the applicant, similar to that, block the view of the barn from the highway? Just looking at the... I didn't walk the property, I was in the food court. We just don't understand it. So if I was going to be right about in here, I think the views are going to be coming in this direction. Correct. That's right. I mean, you're looking at it from the lens of, like, through a gas station, right? Like, in the background? Or, like, let me just... It'll be to the right, go to Street View, and I think you can actually probably look at them. Sure. I drive it every day, and I don't think it will be. It's going to be further to the south, and then to the... There you go. There's the barn, the seven loaves that'll be here. So you will get to see a barn for your applicant's seven loaves. The seven loaves that has chickens out back. It's kind of what it calls seven loaves. Okay. Hopefully, the reason why I'm asking that question is clear. Yeah. Okay, okay. I'm not conserving it for the next one. You're conserving it for just those trees behind the seven loaves. Yeah, right. So the cottonwood's on the barn side, instead of the stuff. That's late, it's late 10, right? Because people, it's not going to hide the cottonwood roads, it's not like... This is actually... Well, this is annexed into the city now, but the city only has land up to... Or, I guess it's annexed up to... Beer. There. This road. Right. This is all County Road. And there's not currently any plans, I know, to change that. It's dirt. It'll become paved. It'll be close to sunset. Well, it'll become paved up to the northern end of some seven loaves. Yeah. I don't think we're making any room for that. I think we're making room for that. That's correct, yeah. So we paved it for some of the... Oh, yeah. You know, I think we're making room for some of the... Yeah, I think we're making room for some of the... Okay, that's good. All right, any other questions? Would anyone like to make a motion that crowd expresses support? Fancy to accept the donation of this property? I move that the parts of my creation is valid to be forward, especially our support for the donation of the bond in the land. To the state. To the state. To me. Fine print. You can get gas in the morning and be right next door. Yeah, and slurpees. Great. Okay, any other comments? Yeah, you want to... Well, let's hear it back. Motion of crowd expresses their support for the donation of the bond in the land to the state. Does that work for you guys? I think so. I second that. All right, all those in favor? Aye. Anyone have thoughts? Okay. Ready to go or take care of your tacos? Great. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. Thank you. Thank you so much. Oh, yeah. Well, thank you guys. Yeah. I appreciate it. Thanks for really explaining it to us in detail. Well, it's a lot of work you did, too. I mean, it's a lot of stuff. I have a lot of pages. Question. I don't know if you may be sincere here. Does the city have any properties that... Or any recognition of the indigenous history of this area? Like the indigenous history, tribal use of this prior... I mean, it feels like historic preservation would come out if you're not thinking about that already. It would be a great aspect to be thinking about. Yeah, I don't know that there are. One of... Glenn mentioned four criteria. And this particular problem, one of them is archaeological. And it came up with just a immensely rich archaeological site, but from the standpoint of, you know... Agricultural. Yeah, so still not that far back. I think it's... I don't know, it's not my area of expertise. We do have a board member whose focus is archaeological history. So we can certainly ask her and see what she knows about it. I would appreciate that. It's not that far back. It's the same area that we're talking about that Chief Nyla was here. And we keep putting... We have a moving company on top of some of the land. We have a bio-life, like plasma donations that are on some of this land. It's time... It's so far beyond time for that to happen. So I do love that. I can give a little update on the calendar here, too. But I'm kind of on my mirror so myself. I've been working with the Northern Rappahoe. The council has been given a lot of direction to work with that group. But also, the city of Boulder, Denver, Boulder County have recognized that what the tribal history here is more than Northern Rappahoe. There's lots of tribes in this area you've been working to try to reconnect with these lands and try to work with local municipalities and how they can not have to go to every municipality to talk about it. We want to get a collection permit to do medicinal medicines. We're going to do a ceremony on a property. How we can do that more collaboratively with those tribes. That's something we're working on right now. And I'd be happy to bring an update on that. There's going to be actually a training, I believe, next to me. And the museum. Yes, the museum. So the museum has a little closer tie to some of the historic pieces. But again, I think the ongoing pieces will kind of keep that conversation going with remark with the tribes to make sure that we're including them in this conversation. In the same way, if we buy an open space and we go to the public table, what should we name it? We want to make sure we jump the tribal members of this area to say, we want you to have a voice in that too. You may not be geographically next door to this property of our community is. But we recognize that there's a cultural connection to this property, too. I know we do not want commercial properties, as we're concerned, because that would be more eugling as we're considering sale and the use and the changes of use. I'm thinking of just west or just east of Main Street south of the creek. That is tribal land. And now it's going to be drive through. You know, do we do we consider that? Do does the planning commission ever consider what what was here? The historic significance of what was here if there wasn't a brick and mortar structure like for the consultant. Yeah. Well, most every property we do have a survey that's done from an historic standpoint. We have surveys of a lot of sites already. So if any of that rises to the surface, it's something that is considered and it may require HBC to get involved. I haven't been here that long. So I don't know if we have done what we have done in the past or whether it's ever come up. I think it hasn't been as well as used car lots. You'd be great. We can add that as just an update. I've heard a little bit about what City of Boulder was doing. I didn't know it was sort of a broader effort. So I think we can add that as a future topic. Just to understand. I did want to say that the interpretive displays at the Sands and Wrench Visitor Center, that does touch on some of the Indigenous people that were here in this area. It's somewhat small, but it's there. So that is something at the Sands and Wrench Visitor Center. Anything on the spot? Just a question. I had a question. It's a good day. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Pretty big. Anything else on that topic? Great. Thanks so much to you guys all for taking time to join us. You'd be so rude, just get up and leave. Yeah. They can, not you, though. It's nice. Let me show you something. They also did it the other day. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. So something new to this board started this during the June appointments is conducting, having the board on staff conduct interviews of candidates. And so what we would ask is if two of the board members could volunteer to work with David and I to do interviews as we come up with candidates. That I think was extended to the 24th of October or something like that. We'd have just about three weeks to conduct the interviews. We bring that back to CRAFT to make our recommendations and then once you approve those recommendations it would go to council and council uses that as part of their decision making when they're appointing board members. I'll tell you that my first experience with that was with the golf board. And I really enjoyed it for a couple of reasons. It allowed us to have some input on who was on our board. And it really gave me the opportunity to work with a couple of golf board members that I really wanted to have the opportunity to get them to get to know them better. And so it was a really good experience. So anybody interested in? So does the city council still do the same process that I think we all remember? This is just preliminary then or ahead of that in time? Here's the difference. Bring this process, we decide what you need. And in this case you decide what you need and then you make the recommendation. We're only going to interview the people you recommend. So rather than if you have two openings and you interview five people you'll make two recommendations. At least that would be my preference. I think in some cases you've got people who the district might say, gosh, you do have these or you have these. But I'm not interested. I don't think the council's interested in interviewing five candidates for two spots. You do the interviews. The council still wanted to have a say in this. I'm required now. I'm not required. Whatever, but yeah. So we'll interview who you recommend. And it'll be, and they'll also enjoy a five-minute interview. But it'll be after they've been properly vetted by whoever this board believes ought to be in the process. So there's a qualitative change then. Yeah, it's a very out of here. I think I'm interested in seeing you, but I'm also curious like what is, how many are you talking here? Talking like five or like 400, 500? Well, I wouldn't think it'd be 400 or 500. But if that many people apply for the board, that's what that's all about. Generally, this board has more candidates than a lot of the other boards. And so it could be six, seven, or eight is my guess. And we scheduled them for half hour, 45 minutes is what we've done with the golf board. Oh, like they give a half hour interview? Yes. Wow. Wow. I didn't mean for you guys. Yeah, that's quite different than our experience. Yes. Right? I wouldn't have made it through a half hour interview. I see. Thank you very much, Ellen. Phew, feel bad for these people. Over the course of like a month, two weeks. We only had three people apply for the golf board for two openings. And we did them all in one afternoon. Right. David and I will work with your schedule and make sure that it works for you as well as the candidates. Could I be a sub in case one of these folks has, does not have the ability to make an interview? Does that make sense? That makes you feel happier. Yeah, well, because I am on my schedule, it's terrifying. So in light of that being the retired guy, sure, I don't. There you go. They have the schedule. I'm just going to fly it open. You are the same guy that says you had a busy day today. You have the golf antennas. I think your recreation schedule might be better. So could we go with Paige and Nick and then have, oh sure, I didn't realize you were already volunteers. I would like to semi-volunteer, but I think you might be in a better position given the. I didn't mean to step on toes. No, if you want to do it, go for it. That's up to you all. Yeah, all right, I think we jumped in. Okay, I'm going to catch that, sorry. But I think if we do what need backup, so I think. Okay, I'm going to Aaron. You'll just be in touch with us. Yeah, once we hear from the city clerk about four candidates. And when does it close? 24th or 26th of this month? Don't hold me to that. I don't remember who we're losing. I think Jeff and Nose. And they can reapply. Oh, okay. Okay, they, if they both apply, we would need to interview them as well to be fair. And the other thing that we do is that the interviews are recorded, so that if council would ever want to go back and look at those, they would have access to them. I'm Heather, I think that's great. I could never imagine how the council could remember all of those people they saw for five minutes on all the different boards. They couldn't. That's how we got through. That's how we're all here. That's how we got here. I'm really applying for an involved board, but yeah, here we go. Okay, so we're going to have to open this? Sure. So just as a reminder, I think we talked about this at the June meeting and I don't have a lot to update, but just kind of let you know where things are at. At the June meeting, you all had mentioned that you didn't like the quality of life tax name, and so we are working on a new name for that, and that will come in the next several weeks because it's my understanding we're going to council on the 15th of November, I think it is, to make a presentation to you all so that you can give us direction of are you crazy or yeah, go forward kind of thing. Just say a little bit about what you will present. Well, I'm not presenting. Well, but the global you know that I am. You'll probably draw the short story. Yeah, yeah. So multiple divisions are going to be involved. The library is just finalizing a feasibility study. Part of that study has identified that there's a need for additional funding in general for the library as well as the potential to do two branch libraries. One would be a smaller storefront type of library, and the other one could be up to 30,000 square feet that could have maker space or provide services that are not currently available at the Longmont Library now. Recreation, we've talked about including a 90,000 square foot new recreation center. The potential of that new one of that larger library branch could be connected to the recreation center. Museum has also just completed a master plan that includes an expansion to the museum that would be also be included. They also have some donations that would help fund some of the expansion that they would be doing. And then they're also included is additional funding for parks to help build more parks and would be my hope as well as doing some things that are currently not funding. Did I miss anything with that? And then kind of the other thing that's being talked about that that could be included is the Performing Arts Center. A couple of years ago a number of groups in town had done a study to see about bringing a joint venture is what my understanding is where it would be a public-private partnership that would bring in the Performing Arts. Again that's kind of out of David and I's area, but I know Harold and the city leadership is talking about how that would fit in. Right now we've provided all of our estimates for the costs of those projects and the financial staff are working on bringing those numbers together and what it would look like to fund that many projects and that could be done both by property tax and sales tax and that information will be presented to council and we will hit their direction on moving forward with all of it or what their priorities are kind of a quick summary. The next step if council supports that would be that we start doing a public process to start going out to the community and talking about what those projects look like. Some of the things that might be included in a rec center or another library or park as well as the thought would be is that we bring the boards together advisory boards and do some joint meetings to talk about how we support each other and moving forward with the election and Ben will bear with me because he gets tired of this story. But when we built the rec center we did bring... We brought a number of the boards advisory boards together and it was really a good way to have each of the boards educate them each other on what their needs were and we feel like that's a very important piece of what we'd be doing with this possible tax as well. So that's kind of where we're at right now. And you would also at some point talk to us about sort of how the board can engage Yes. In support of the public initiative or in the public process initially in the subsequent thing. Yes, yeah. Remind me how big is the current rec center at Coil? Sixty three thousand five ninety thousand is bigger. Yes. One and a half X okay gotcha. And we were going to do some kind of pulling of the audience as that happened or No it hasn't. So we arbitrarily decided ninety thousand or you guys did or Yes. Based on what we believe the need is we are about ready to go to bid for master plan feasibility study to help us identify that and there will be some public process. So council approved money for a feasibility study? Yes they did. It's been a while since we've met so we're kind of behind the time here. So we had forty thousand dollars budgeted in twenty two to do the master plan and then there is a recreation impact fee that is collected when developments or homes are revealed. That fund has a little over two million dollars in it. We have asked and have appropriated a hundred and fifty thousand to help with towards this study. Okay. That's specific to the recreation center piece. Kind of like before pool and ice and kind of like before the rec center twenty years ago. Yes. Got it. Okay. Any other questions? Has someone matters? Is there anything you want to add since which is time? No I'm looking forward to seeing what the staff brings. Personally I think there's a variety of ways to think about this and maybe want to chat and find out what you're thinking before we get into that public discussion in how to cobble together something that might be doable and my little lost breath taking in terms of cost and put recreation services the museum the library together and then parse the library or I'm sorry the museum recreation services together. Parse the performing arts center in the library but there's a variety of ways to think about it. The good news is we're thinking about it and we're about ready to get into a public discussion. I'm glad to hear it. It's my mistake before counseling. My son says he needs a place to hear your own music. So it's so much it gets in the center. Extremely boring. I agree. Well you just want to fix that. Anything anything else on that? Okay so we'll move to discussing items from the packet. Does anyone have any questions or clarifications on items that were included in the packet? So parts and forestry operations. With timber. So there's insulation of cameras at various park locations feel obligated to ask why we're having cameras survey us in our parks. So I'll take that and then involve this process. This is a ongoing challenge that we've been facing in our parks as far as vandalism, breeding, destruction of city property and trying to maintain how people find those following those rules and rights even after I've always been going to have staff out there. So it's been ongoing cost. The city is trying to figure out how we do it with staffing, how we do it to the replacement of those facilities that can be destroyed, how we manage the costs associated with the graffiti removal and it's been a conversation between public safety, the parks department and city manager's office and this was the decision to address these with cameras. We've used cameras on small scale basing paths in areas where we've had problems. So we'll be putting these cameras in parks that we know we have known problems right now with the idea to kind of build this out throughout the city, the downtown area to our parks as well. It's being done with a grant that comes out of it within New Orleans actually and they actually will keep the data for us. So it's not going to be people sitting around watching this stuff happen. It's kind of a third party server that puts on kind of keeps it safe a little bit away from just people being able to watch and serve very easily the way they want to. So we can go back and receive things that happen in the park. We can go back and look at that and try to figure out how we hold people accountable. Okay, I just feel like that should be a public discussion. It has been. It has been. It was part of that presentation we had. How many cameras? I do come to council sometimes, you know, but you can come to all of them. I hadn't heard that. That's a pretty big invasion of personal privacy. So the piece again, as we had this conversation because it was internally with people in parks and the park background, I think there's that those ideas as well. As we had those conversations, though, it was the ring camera across the street. It's a real program. The kids skate on it. It's the bank agent. You're on camera everywhere. It's just going to have to think out. So trying to organize. Yeah, I know that because I came with the board and I'm willing to be on camera to say that it's a little it's a little scary that we're now we're bailing even more. You know, it's just I'm just going to put it out there. That is scary. I mean, I look at the things that we're trying to mitigate. And it's like a whole idea of what is government for. Is it for safety or control? And I would say there's been a pretty strong writing piece of this conversation that really is for safety that our community, almost on a weekly basis, you cannot use a large majority of our restrooms because of vandalism. Almost a daily basis is the tagging, repeating the vandalism of parks that are causing staff to not be able to provide for, say, manager upkeep of parks because they're focusing on corrective action against behaviors. So I really do think it was a conscious decision. I would I would not believe it could be not a safety issue. And we've had in some of the parks for quite some time we've had cameras. All of our recreation facilities have camera and cameras in half for 10 plus years. Again, we don't have somebody that's setting in watching it. It's there. If something happens, we can go back for the record and try to identify who caused the issue. We missed Dan Wolfer going away. That was in the last months. Yeah. How did that happen? Was that when you guys were at the movie the other day when I saw you? No, we actually did that. That was somebody else. Actually, Dan, we actually did a little going away party for him at Union. It was a nice kind of celebration, but it was he didn't want a whole lot that it kind of got hard. So I went back around and experienced. He kind of snuck that in at the end of the previous months. They just like, wait a minute here. Okay. Wow. That's a big deal. Yeah, it really is. As we go forward, I'll throw another outfit. This is not where it belongs. If I do that step updates, but Kathy Grana is now going to Erie. So I'm down Dan and Kathy. So kind of those people that keep me looking good and know what I'm talking about. We're on a hiring binge right now. Well, I think you open that. That's what I'm trying to get done as fast as I can. Yes. And I appreciate Ben's updates, but I didn't see when did the bathrooms close again? In the parks? Is that you guys? That's us. Okay. And it should have been on Saturday and October? Yeah. So it was yesterday. It should have been the first Monday. The tennis guys were asking on Sunday. We think they're open then. People went and used it, but then we're like, what date is it? Quick. They were all through. It's happening. The second game left over, which was yesterday was the last one. And why would they close? Pardon? Why would they close? Because the pipe's freezing. Yeah, we can do that. I mean, they just pick arbitrary day if they go on in April and off in October. Kind of like, do you like to say, let's have that? That's good. Oh, no. No, no, no. I don't know. I don't know. I just, I know. Yeah, that's not just curious. My name closed. And because it just always seemed like when I was like the good ones to use the park with your kid, where it's not hot, you know, just like, where's my kid going to be? It's a conversation that we may, I mean, it's, there's a big couple pieces of that. So Steve will tell you that we do design some of our parks with ways to keep those heated. What we found, though, is that prior to some of the new technology that probably they'll there right now, all it takes is one night with the heater going out. And you're 100,000 hours in the hole. Exactly. So that, that's kind of the research even when we design them. So we can kind of keep them heated if something does happen to them that it really is a huge cost and it's out for a long term. Um, there are some technologies that can probably do, you know, pretty instantaneous notifications to someone that we have a week. There also is the amount of use that we've historically seen. And there is a cost benefit piece to it. And those restrooms clean and having that contract is a significant cost to the residents to keep those open year round for a much smaller use group. As we start seeing things stay warmer and those necessary days getting extended, they had more people in the parks and those cold days lessening. We may want to start taking a look and say, is it worth that additional cost to do that? But right now it really is a budgetary piece, but also sort of how we design our parks and the technology to keep them from freezing at night. Composting toilets, it's really well, but not really. And I think that that's something else I think is a probably more of a community piece that people have certain expectations and want them on parks. And we're continually looking at how we set standards of the facilities that we have. But I do think that our community, once you have something, it's harder to take it away. Coming in with that, I just talked to Director in Breckenridge and they're just looking and putting restrooms in for the first time in their parks. And that's one of the things that they're looking at too. But coming in with something like that, I think we have nothing to a composting as opposed to, you know, the neighborhood. And the neighborhood against the first composting toilet is like, well, why did all these other neighborhoods end up with something that we were expecting? Is this the plan for all of the parks? There's a little lag there. I'll jump online if you are talking community parks. Yeah, so community parks. This was the neighborhood parks and then the community parks. That's probably why the tennis was open if it was at the toilet. So that'd be a little bit longer than doing the community parks. Well, okay. This was actually a pratt thing to do. Or there are restrooms. Quail has a porta potty or the rec center is a hundred yard walk. We had differences. Neighborhood and community parks are a little bit different, right? And those facilities are designed with meters in it. They're all designed with meters in it. Um, I also noticed under the, I like to feel like I'm a campaigner as well. I'm sorry, but that's why I only ask questions about things I have questions about. I noticed on the union reservoir section that on beaver mitigation, that there's going to be like probably beaver tree painting on some cottonwood and removing the damaged ones. I've used that ditch, but I probably know the person in the last 25 years to use that ditch. So I'm wondering why we need to remove and like, why don't we really need to remove damaged trees? Why don't we just let the viewers do their job and just let them do it? And why would we go to that cost and then take away that micro ecosystem that happens with dying trees? So this is just a peat. This is one of those pieces that, you know, as you look at, I can be talking about managed environments and living for flat habitat or nails. Those ditches are there. They were not there prior to a ditch company building that ditch to deliver water to the reservoir. They couldn't be used in our water storage system and move some place else. So when those trees fall into that ditch, they back up and preclude water from moving through, which that means the ditch company has to come through and use equipment to get large trees out of a ditch on a unscheduled, unregulated time. So if you talk to a ditch company, it's a very kind of delicate dance between trying to manage a, really what is truly a non-native ecosystem because we didn't have those ecosystem. But we're 200 years into that. But we're into it because we have ditch and water rights that say we have adjudicated water for a specific purpose to get from point A to point B. So if you're a ditch company, the easiest way to manage a ditch is cut everything down and have nothing there. Can you stay to a degree with that? Because that water is meant to go to a farm out east. And that cattle tree is sucking it up. There is a loss to the system on that. So we're always trying to find that balance of how do we manage an ecosystem that we have graded over 200 years with water rights that are going back as long as that as well. And also be able to maintain a water delivery system. Thank you. Thanks, Paige. So the New Miller Park renewal project, I noticed that there is some delays on the playground equipment. Yep, I'm going to stop talking for now. Steve is going to be picking, this is a piece too. What is it going to look like for the next couple of months? Because it's spring 2023. Is there a bunch of mail? So are we just going to go over the next? Just real quick. Steve will be taking on, again, I was trying to get things done in a timely manner and trying to meet deadlines. Steve is going to be taking on some of the work capitalists as well. So Steve's play is going to be full. So I'm going to go on. Well, I go on my first project meeting tomorrow. But I'll come to this with Kathy. There's still work to be done over the winter. There's still still a lot of, it's not just the playground equipment. There's a lot of work done in the buildings. Lighting. There's opportunities to do some of the receding or soldering this year still. So it's, but the project will be someone on hold from the, not through the winter, once the playground equipment comes. Now, depending on whether that can go in in December, January, February, I don't know exactly what the date is off in. But it's going to hold up doing some of the plant because you have to put the playground equipment in first and you have to do the concrete and you have to do the port and play servicing. Then you do the landscaping irrigation around it. So you can't do the landscaping irrigation in December. So it's going to push some of the project until next spring, tying blue scents up that they couldn't do over the winter. But they're going to try to get as much done over the winter as they possibly can. Okay, got it. Thank you. I think my concern is just like, we're just going to like have fencing and construction equipment that they're sitting for months because there will be fencing in the park through the winter. But as we get areas buttoned up, we'll open those up as well. I had just a couple questions. One, I noticed it said that Boulder County is soliciting open space and trail grant requests and the staff would bring this to crab in October. So why didn't that dad not do that? Yeah, that's not true. That was one that should have fallen. That one is probably should have fallen on my plate to do that. But I will work with Jim Crick and we'll have something for this group by the next meeting. Okay. It says it's not due until February. Don't be worried. That's why I read that to you. Probably a little time. Yeah, we have a little time. But I don't want to miss that. I don't want to miss that. That's something. Where I thought I'd read that when I was reading online, but when I printed it off, where is that falling? It said you were going to get the answer. That was last month, too. It was two months ago. What page in the 3,000 package? Yeah, page packet. It was just a bullet under the updates. Okay. From a month ago, though, I thought it was the slightest one. It was from the one in this packet. Oh, okay. It was, but he didn't update it before. Right. I know. Oh, God. What am I going to do? You know, we'll have this house right at the hill. You know what I'm saying? And then my other question was for you, Jeff, about it said ICE Pavilion sponsorships clarified and updated. And I just wonder what I think. That's on the dashboard. Signs out there. But did you, like, are you getting new sponsors? Or because those signs aren't there really a lot of times. Do you have the answer to that? We're always getting new sponsors. We have, there are new dashboard. So we're in contact with the current ones. And the sandhub, we just kind of take it on our sponsorship realm, the memorial building, is allowing us to kind of explore additional, additional venues for that. And not just on the dashboard, but throughout my creation. So is there someone that kind of goes around to business us and like offers? She will. She's, she's. That's gotta be great. She, she has her contacts and kind of knows, knows to the ground, looking for a doubt. She has other responsibilities too. We don't have a marketing person in our production. So we kind of do our best with it. So we're not, we're not great at it, but she's a lot better than I've been before. So we're actually pretty excited to go forward with developing some new opportunities for you in the next round. And that's her name. Sound Calcum. She's a Recreation Coordinator. Sam also does Rhythm on the River. On my lights, triathlon, turkey trap. Straight or right. Okay, cool. Yeah, I just long thought that there are probably untapped sponsorship opportunities for you guys to bring in, but someone has to ask. Yeah, there are untapped potentials and potential all around recreation, but trying to find an opportunity to do it and have it fit with what we already have and you know, division for how things look is always a balance. I'm talking about a rec center banner tomorrow. Awesome. Great. Any other questions from the packet? If not, you can go to items from Seth. All right, I will go first. So I'm going to give a little bit of an update on a topic that has not been approved by anyone yet, but it's a topic this group knows. Except for me. As this group knows, I have felt the frustrations other than this room have felt the frustration of having part projects of another for a long time and not being able to get them done. And part of that, you know, is the work that we've had going through basically Stephen County plus all the other assignments they've had within the city and then some of the complications of COVID and supply chains and other things that all project managers are being looked at right now. So I was pretty clear with this group that my goal is to be asking for positions to help us with that. This group recognizes those positions were not funded and had questions about that as well. But with that being said, Harold has really said he wants to see those projects to be completed as well. He would like to see us get eight projects done in five years. And he thinks there's ways that we can do that with potentially different ways of packaging this up and putting into a design bid process. Well, he knew, especially as a design bid process, but design build process would give us a greater ability to bring in someone that has a lot of skill sets and big staff that can really take design as something like we did RSVP where we would have a large firm come in and be able to commit it to this project over a multi-year time frame. We've looked at that and we said, okay, we'll take that and see how we can look at that and make that something that we could then represent. We basically have looked at clumping projects into finishing up projects that are already out there. There's a couple of those finishing up some new neighborhood parks, finishing up some community parks and then some large sports complex and trail projects. So we've got them clumped into eight, plus not dropping some of the ones that are going right now. The piece that I think this exercise allows us to go back to Harold and say, here's how we could do this. We have a good meeting with purchasing and our business services staff as well, because it's going to take not only an extra lift from this group, but also from purchasing and doing things that they probably haven't done in the past or don't have a lot of experience with and maybe even having to change some of those rules to allow us to do that, looking at how we do funding that we specifically budget for a year to try and commit to doing something over five years. So there's a lot of unknowns in that, but I think if we take on those unknowns, packages up, it allows us to get back and say, Harold, here's what we've looked at. Here's how we can get from point A to point B, but here's the staffing we really need to make that happen. So it's just a, he's left that door open. He hasn't said come back and just say you're going to be have, bring it back and let me know how you're going to get there. The other piece with that, because we have this backlog of project funds, that he can time that or fund that with some of the project costs. That way we don't have to time this with the budget cycle. So he feels comfortable that we could look at taking those positions that come up that we need to make this happen, that we could go through the funding cycle or the project funds to make that happen. So at this point, just want to kind of make sure that everyone's aware that we're moving that direction. We have a meeting tomorrow purchasing and joining to kind of prepare to get our presentation ready for Harold. I'm sorry, one second. One second, yeah. So you are thinking to hire staff. When you first started talking, I thought you were going to say bring in consultants to do this out of city staff people. So isn't that how resilient St. Brain? Yeah, so we bring in, so that's the piece we have to remember when people say bringing consultants to this work. Josh is the city staff, though, that manages that contract and that's his full-time job, basically. So to bring in an outside consultant, you still need staff. I'm fine, I'm just trying to understand. You are thinking city employees. We will have to bring in at least some positions to make this happen. Great, that's what I think the board generally has to, yeah, that's what we need. Yes. Okay, you're just packaging it differently. We're trying to put in place, to answer health questions, how we can look at this differently, try some things, have to do the same thing over again to come up with a different result. We're going to do this a little bit differently and this is the path we've taken. But to do that, there are definitely gaps in the ability for the current staff to make that happen. So we would have to go and say to make this a reality, we would need additional staff to make this work. It's very possible we'll have more information in this moment. Yeah, and I'm just going to say, I appreciate you giving us this update and it was partly at my request because I saw that new positions had been requested for their department, but not approved by the council. And you had some questions about that and my understanding is that they were not approved and that there was a recommendation that some alternative approved. Just to clarify, they went and were presented to the council. It wasn't a matter of counseling and approving. Exactly. What got the council was vetted in a way that the council never had a chance to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down on additional staffing in the department. That's very important to use. But my concern remains that this is a department that I think we've all agreed is significantly understaffed, really capacity limited. I mean, I'm all for trying new approaches, but I personally think it's going to be challenging even to do that kind of approach without, as you say, some new capacities. So... Yeah, it won't happen without capacity. I wouldn't do that. Especially if it means that I'm leaving. So, I mean, I'm hoping if the board if Fenty is too interested that we can continue to get updates on this including potentially an update based on your conversation with the city manager. Andrew, I know I'm getting the impression but do you need want something from us as a board? At this point, no, I think, you know, it'd be kind of working with Joey and Harold and seeing where this goes and I think if it moves in that direction and this group again just kind of maintaining its recognition that that these are important pieces for the community. I think that's always something this group is good at saying that we are here for a reason is because we appreciate our parks or hope it's facing greenways and we would like keep putting pressure on me. That's the best you can do and say maybe get your stuff done and I can show up to Harold saying we're being asked to complete projects put this again or we could make the meeting go really late on the answer counter if he doesn't make something happen. Oh yeah, and by him. Well, I think we should consider depending on how your meeting goes if we could have, you know, if it's Harold or Joni or someone if there's a different approach that would be valuable for perhaps to take care of that. If you could let us help somehow I'd appreciate that. I'd like to help, I guess. Yes, is that what you're saying? Yeah. The nice thing is I think the enthusiasm is there. We can make the numbers work and staffing work and everything. I think from Harold and leadership I think the enthusiasm is there the same enthusiasm this board has. Yeah, well when you told us you had all this money but couldn't spend it fast enough we're like, that's crazy, you know. For a year I've been here just though it's a couple of decisions about how many more staff that everyone has their requests. That is crazy. We didn't get it for sure. So Jeff, does it remind me of something that like I've thrown Joni's name out a couple of times I think this group is probably you know known who Dale Radamaker has been in the past of which the FDC manager you know was in charge of PWNR when this group was reporting to Public Works and Natural Resources through some of the reorganization this group now reports to external services which is Joni Marz and she's the assistant city manager in charge of external services. She has come from a planning background and she's got some creative ways of looking at things and looking at funds rather because Jeff also reports to her so there's recreation funds there's park development fees and she's looking at ways we can use some of those dollars that we haven't always looked at I think in more of a holistic way because Jeff has always been the same thing saying that you know get those parks built. So this is a great question. This question. Who is Harold before? City Council. Okay. All right. Let's check it out. So I'm going to dispel one. Yeah. You asked what do they need did they need to think from you? The answer is no. I need something from you. The council needs something. Ah, okay. Harold's I hope he feels under the gun. If Harold here I would say it exactly the same way that I hope Harold fills under the gun to present to the council a list of accomplishments that we're going to see in parks in park development in 2023 not to put more pressure on that maybe right there or on either of these two colors but the expectation is that if we didn't add the fourth FDE that he requested and I made my own recommendations right in terms of staff we're not going to add personnel that doesn't mean anybody's off the hook to produce right. We've got a 20 year 18 million dollars and a 20 year backlog. It has to be clear. So the way it's going to be clear is it's taking a different approach to staffing to get him what he needs and get David and some additional staffing. They'll buy out of capital improvement budgets I guess. I mean I don't know if that's the way it's going to work on the design build process. But that doesn't mean we don't mean we don't owe it to you and to them our pickleball community and to the rest of our Asian community clarity on what you can expect this year. And I hope you show every quarter to the council meetings in 2023. I'm expecting that list in the first part of December where we're going to vote on a budget before we get a list. And I'm already I'm excited. I'm in my public in the public meeting. I said you know what you're going to want to vote prior to the time we get the list. I'll vote for the budget. But I'm going to do it with a caveat. I'm going to get a list in the interest of accountability. Right. What the city's accountable for two parks this advisory board to a recreation community pickleball players and others what you can expect from us in 2023. But the understanding that nothing's perfect and if we don't get it all done again we'll better account for what we did and what we learned and what we're going to get done in 2024. Because what we've been doing up to this point we just keep adding more to his play without the personnel to get it done is simply not fair. Right. And it's it's not normally fair. It's not clear. It's not it's not as genuine as it should be right in the whole budgeting process. So the way we've been doing it we're not going to do anymore. Right. As far as I'm concerned and I think that's so that's where you can help is to not let anybody out to hold me accountable. You're going to hold these guys accountable because you get a shot at it. Don't let this council up show up at least quarterly. Just clear just curious where are we with this list of projects? What can we expect over the next quarter? So when we're here you can you can report to us. So I'm happy to anybody want to have a cup of coffee and talk about the questions they asked or how to nuance it on I just think we need to be much clearer and way more aggressive than what we've been. And it's not this these fellows who are not these are not the problem and the city's not the problem. It's all right people but it's a bunch of priorities that you know get on the table and they get vetted. And in this case the additional staffing that David needed got vetted out. So we never we never see that right. So and the council who is Harold reports you we can undo months of work in the budget by the time you get to us. That's simply not going to make the city work work. So that's it's not as easy as as picking at it when it comes to the public meeting after all the work these people are playing. But something has to change. So we're going to wrap it up a little bit. And I appreciate that. Coming here and asking that question not just the council but of us saying it's our meeting and where you guys at and what's happening because it's I'm comfortable as that can be when we're not there. I will tell you that having to ship a box on that was one more year and tell them that you're one more year out that's needed. So you're sending me. Thank you. No it's the department. It's the department. It's a clover base. It's you know I have I said this in a public meeting. I'm just not doing that anymore. It's in the queue to the budget. Hang on. Because you're going to be hanging on for the rest of your life. You're you're comment that it's not the system as it's currently set up is not fair now working demonstrated failure over the last two decades or more. Yeah. And on the way outside I'm certain my role is a liaison right now. But I just think these guys need that kind of support. Right now pressure on them. The pressure needs to be at a level that helps to mobilize on procurement or the city attorney's office. I don't remember how much this goes to the city's attorney. It's where every idea goes to die. Is in the city. And I like Eugene. I'm just saying it's like a black box. It's like stuff goes there and you got to keep pounding the table to get it out of there. That's just the way it works. So you can really help. David and I we'll hand camera with all of us. We'll hand camera with all of us. It's our hero. What are you going to say to them? I said we both love working for Harold. You should. I mean he's doing a terrific job. There's just a lot of forces that work here. Oh, absolutely. This just needs to be. We just have to be clear here. He just wanted that on camera. Yeah. Yeah. Broke the board wall there. Looked right at the beginning when he said that. I mean I'm glad to hear that you think that there's awareness and intention because I think, you know, my concern is that it's not recognized. It's not appreciated. And like the value of actually having, you know, on staff, you know, in-house capacity, even if you're going to work with contractors or try things a different way, still need in-house capacity and allocate grants. You know, grant funding doesn't generally cover staffing. So that usually means to be like the city appropriation in order to get free and not grant funding. So. Tim has done a very nice job of representing you at the council. Pretty ineffective. Pretty ineffective, however. Because we're having this conversation. Thank you for providing that update. Yeah, great. And we can continue to have this conversation hopefully. We'll book to you to keep us up to date and we'll go to council meetings. We will. Any other items from staff? Any items from the board? I have two folks from the community who have talked to me about they both slipped and fell riding on the trail along the St. Brain after a rain. It was on July 27th. One of them separated the shoulder and the other broke her leg. And it was because mud ran under the, you know, the rain fell. It goes down underneath the bridges and they're probably going too fast. But they wonder is that whose responsibility is to clean? Or how often does that happen? Or, you know what I mean? I've written on all the underpasses and I don't remember that one that day. A cone did appear a week or two later. So somebody, I mean, I don't know if they did or whoever reported it. But I'm just wondering is that something that's patrolled and I want to get back to them? These two people, hey, this is what happens. You know, after a rain be careful because it takes three weeks before the mud has shoveled out. Or is that you guys? Yeah, that would be timber and parts operations to have the reports to me. So typically, you know, our process, that's a good piece. I don't have a good answer right now. And Steve, you've been here long as I was looking at. But we, our first piece was starting that rains and water on the tree. I would close those gates. Right. When the water recedes, we then open those gates. No other price underbree there. So I'm not sure where. We don't open the gates until after it's cleaned up. Okay. So maybe this missed that opening closing. I don't know. I'd be curious which underpass it was. This is at County Line Road and it goes up. It takes that sharp right and all that kind of thing. So it's not construction related? No. Yeah, you know, we have limited maintenance staff as well. And they're trying to get eyes on all of our system as frequently as they possibly can. Okay. I don't know the frequency that we have our operation staff drive the entire Greenway Trail. But I can tell you that one good thing that's come out of what we've done this year is we have a ranger program now. So now we have more eyes on our trails. Hopefully that communication is there to be able to, you know, Bryce were out and saw a dangerous condition. He would be able to report it to Timber to get it addressed rather than just waiting for somebody to go by and see it. Well, so my answer to them in the short term was you guys could go on to the either the phone number or the webpage and report this. Right. Unfortunately, after doing that from the ER doesn't give you much satisfaction. So, you know, if you first, you know, got to go slower on a rainy or a post rainy day and then report it sort of thing. But I'm just curious. So ASAP, but that might take days or weeks. I can tell you, we don't sweep our entire trail system on a weekly basis. Right. And I think the other piece is too with that, what I'm hearing is kind of something, when they open that gate up, if there's debris on it that they can see that it looks like it's going to be a hazard, I'm sure that's going to be clear before that gate gets open. If you're seeing that silk, that's where probably the slippery side. Probably that's where it was. That thin, silty layer that gets on there's maybe a, you know, less than a quarter of a stick when that stuff is that comes to that clay, slippery stuff that could be something that, you know, we're like, no, we look through there. It's clear there's no debris that's nothing on that. And then. Sorry. Thanks. At least I presented it. I can tell these folks, you know, we'll see what happens. You also present from that a lot of our underpasses from made as blood control that we secondarily get to use them as recreation, but their primary purpose is blood control. I think anybody who's going that fast on the rec path is already a problem. So, I'm going to be nice. I mean, I just explained to him that that's what it is and that if that, you know, that hopefully that we can always continue to use it as a recreation option just to keep their litigious thoughts away. I think they're, yeah. Thank you. I'll get back to them. Any other items from before? How we do? Yeah. I'm sorry. I have one more. Acting. Acting. Is that, you're going to keep acting and sitting at the table here? Or have you been taken over? Or what's that? I like getting it right. Well, the position, there is a new position that's been created for community services. So, let me back up a little bit. Karen Maroney was the director of the community services department for many years. She retired into March. Harold has determined that the department is too large. It's going to be split up into two pieces. One being recreation library museum and the other senior services, general youth and family, housing, and what was the administration. Currently, Joanie Marsh, who David talked about, has posted both of those positions, and I have applied for the rec library museum position. The deadline for that is tomorrow. Once I determine if I am selected to move permanently into that role, recreation will need to have a new recreation and golf manager, which Ben is acting in that role right now. If you get a position, you won't come to this board. Yes, I will continue to do that. All right, I was going to have to know all the time. That's right, I was going to go in there. No, I will continue to do that. Okay, so let's, this group might want to know that job is only posted internally, correct? Yes. The other job is posted both internally and externally. Correct. So, it's a reflection, to some degree, on what people. They have somebody in mind. What, the quality of the job being done right now, right? Are you looking for a motion, Jeff? So, could you guys, as you're talking about that, talk about how, what is the connection between sort of natural resources and then some parts? Right, so external services, Joni is the assistant city manager for that. David and I now are both in the same department or under external services, which we haven't been aligned since 2003. 2007? That was three, really? We have that for later. The year after the Recreation Center was built, Parks and Rec was split. Recreation was moved into community services. What was community development became public works and natural resources. So, we've worked close together, but now we have somebody that will help us work in the same direction. David and I, fortunately, have always worked very closely together, but the goals that the department he was in and the department that I was in didn't always go the same direction. And now, working for Joni, I think that we'll have some guidance that's alike and we'll see better things come from both of our areas. And that won't change with this split within. So, Parks will stay over the natural resources group as well. You don't become his boss or vice versa. Got it. Thanks. Any other? I'm just curious. Sorry, are you going to come to these meetings too? Yes. I entered a softball. Although I'm needed. Yeah, I would appreciate David for a ton. Artificer.pads to be delivered to the drive-thru and give me a meeting for the help of David. Very welcome. It was a volunteer coordinator project. They didn't have all the coordination that needed so I coordinated it. So, yeah, I think they did a great job and they turned up on. So, thank you. So, describe it. What's changed? So, the drive-thru club has a good pitch and it has a 100 by 15 feet height. It has to be good. As of when? It's there? Yeah, it is there. Wow. Of course it's been there. It's been. No, but not the latest. You're saying something new. No, it's not new. Oh, it's a new turf on the concrete that they use for the pitch was replaced. Ah, okay. I remember the thing before. I thought maybe you expanded the field or something. So, you just replaced what you had. Gotcha. Don't put ideas in it. So, every five minutes. Right. The concrete has to be replaced. Okay. And again, just like with the new part piece, that operational piece sometimes you have a backclaw too and I think we had a great volunteer group that's willing to contribute some time and effort to get something done. And I just lined up with trying to achieve the goal that we all want to get done. Yeah, the next day was the rain. So, I wondered what was going on that day on the way that the rain moved us out. Yeah, I went out and looked at it and it looked really good. I would like to get through this too, to Taylor. That volunteer coordination it's a model for, I work with other cities and the recreation programs. It's such a model. She's doing a killer job of that. And it's so easy to volunteer and so rewarding to be here and all the places I volunteer that follow up as fast and she caters to your volunteering needs. It's awesome. Thank you. She's been great in that and I'll go back to Dr. Waters helping kind of push that volunteer program through. Because the city had one early on when I got here it'd been kind of dismantled and I knew it was a piece that Longmont really wanted and we used the Rose Gardens kind of kickoff as a demonstration of that and it has done a great job. Having worked with the county is how many Longmont volunteers showed the county events and know we had so much work here in our own community. It's like we have a great on-tap resource and the community has been great. So now we need that and like all the different sectors of the city because I just hear so much stuff or we need and there's there's so many people are willing to help in so many different ways and so volunteer for me was great. Yeah we had to like when she was brand new we took our feedback Yeah. to give an update. I will be asking she does maybe a little question right here but there's also to do a volunteer appreciation where she's a slideshow on kind of all the the projects they've done so we could either do a sample of that or we could just have people show up with that to see what we need to do to get free doses of stuff people show up. So I was actually trying to get her to coordinate a project that was before this we're going to be screening for a group that I have and then maybe she's going to come over here for a bit more Yeah. There you go. They're going to have a a team that they've come to the group see and I would be vibrant especially now that we're back in our close quarters. Right. I mean don't skip the one. It's not that exciting. It's true. It's not our team nature. All right. Any other items and if not we could have a motion to adjourn. I know we adjourn. We have a second. I'm going to sleep in the switch. How about as a favor? All right. We need to start. Thank you. Thanks. Good job. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. It's good to have you back in. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Thank you.