 As-salam wa alaikum dear brothers and sisters and welcome back to politics and debates. Today's topic inshallah is going to be independence and nationalism. Now many of you have been monitoring and watching the situation that has recently unfolded in between Catalan and Spain. Now Catalan wants to become an independent state but the Spanish government in Madrid are not particularly happy about this and it has caused so much disunity and so many problems and it really makes you think is this idea that some states or some parts of certain countries that want independence, is it such an important thing? I mean it's not just Catalan and Spain, you have other examples, for example Kurdistan want to be independent, Palestine want to be independent. So we're going to be discussing this and much more inshallah with my esteemed guest, Dr Zahar, as-salam wa alaikum. So I guess the first thing to discuss and address here is like why do you think that there are certain states, certain cities, counties in the world that want to be recognised as independent states? It's probably they have their own culture, their own system and they want to preserve that culture and they to decide their own rules and regulations and tax collection and so on and so forth from within rather than from if you like another distant place or another city. So some people have this attitude that we should do it ourselves rather than has it done for us in another city that's to do with within a single country. Of course these provinces usually they have their own semi-autonomous system where they do they have their own if you like parliament and legislature body and probably even their own tax system and so on and so forth. So there are various degrees of independence but in the example that you cited they want complete cessation and from the system of course if this is what they want it's their choice if the overwhelming majority of the people have voted for that then that's that that's going to be the case you can't argue with that but you also cited you know in the case of for example Catalan and Spain and so on but you also cited other examples from within the Muslim country or Muslim yeah I'd like for example Kurdistan or whatever this kind of division if you like that we have today in in Muslim countries as something which is un Islamic if you like okay we don't have we don't what we have now is borders and various different countries Iran Iraq Turkey Kuwait and whatever we don't have that in Islam um this is Islam and that's how it used to be until about a century ago the Muslim country was a single country with different nations and different languages you had Iraq who spoke Arabic you have Turkey who spoke Turkish and Iran who spoke Farsi and what have you Afghanistan spoke a different language Pashto very very very in fact various languages the same goes for Iran for example today um you have half a dozen or more languages spoken definitely more with the with the dialects and so on spoken in a single country that doesn't mean to fragment the country so Islam doesn't recognize that today it has reached the saying that if you want to travel from one country to another from Iran to Iraq for example you have to get visa yeah that's true you are considered foreign so if you are for example Iranian and I'm Iraqi then I consider you foreign and you consider me foreign we don't have that in Islam and Allah yes he recognizes that there are different tribes and nations and so on and they are respected and Allah says we created you into into tribes and nations so that you get to to know one another and cooperate with one another most honored of you in the sight of Allah is the one who is most God fearing so Taqwa is the benchmark is the touchstone if you like and nothing else you know your race your color your nationality whether you're Iranian Iraqi Irish English whatever that doesn't count as far as Allah is concerned aslam is aslam is concerned what counts is your piety your God fearing your behavior your conduct if your conduct is good and your it's all proper then Allah's you are considered good otherwise it's not so conduct behavior performance is what matters as far as individuals are concerned in the sight of Allah and of course the same really goes even today in the if you like non-muslim world and regardless of your background or nationality or or race if you perform good perform well then you're accepted behave according to the if you like the law of the land if you don't transgress upon others right and then you are considered you're deemed a good individual if you like and that is something similar to what we have according to this ayah the most honored of you is the one who is most God fearing Allah says don't transgress don't do wrong to any other individuals and discharge your duties as you are requested that is something which is not really over and above the capability of ordinary individuals yes absolutely I think the Islamic viewpoint is spot on really like why do we want to cause division as such but actually I can empathize with the fact that from you know city just city to city there are many differences for example I'm originally from Birmingham and our culture in Birmingham the way people are very different from how they are in London so I can understand actually why some states would want to claim independence as such they have this pride in their identity as such now but you I mean sorry just mean you can you can have pride in your identity but it doesn't mean that for example you need because of the difference of culture between Birmingham London and Birmingham then we should have different states they have different they have their own dialect their own their own culture for example in Birmingham or part of the other part of the country different from London for example but that doesn't mean that it should be broken up yes it can stay united and they with all the different cultures and dialects that they have they coexist and cooperate with one another it's very true I would I watched the news the one day with my father back home and it was talking about the Catalan spain issue and I turned to my dad actually and I said well how would you feel if Birmingham claimed independence tomorrow and he said oh oh I wouldn't like that because I'd have to take a passport everywhere I go with me like not practical is it bless his heart bless his heart um but looking now at the issue of nationalism this kind of sense of pride in your country and your heritage as such now there are some schools of thought in Islam specifically looking at the Wahabi sect that are very vocal in their beliefs you know they clearly say nationalism is an awful thing you cannot have any kind of pride in your country whatsoever you're muslim first and foremost it doesn't matter that's your only identity as such now do we do we agree with that view in the school of the ahl al-bayta layham as-salam in some ways or do we completely oppose that view no I mean it's that's not correct um you can have pride in your country um it's natural that an individual loves uh uh one's country um they've been born in that country or they live in that country and they love that country they've got safety and security there and so love of country and being pride of the country is uh uh it's not something which as you mentioned the other schools uh of uh uh uh believe in no we don't believe in that um it's it's it's a reflection of your faith um if you if you're proud of your country and um you you're prepared to defend it for example and this is where if you like your country is your home so um so yes no we don't have uh uh that attitude that hunt for the love yes it's um yeah don't get me wrong um you know I come from a british background and unfortunately there are some elements of the culture that I now disassociate myself away from because they contradict islam but there are some things about the british and the irish culture that I absolutely love the idea of generosity and of course you know our love of making immaculate cues and having a nice cup of pg tips so things like that I absolutely love about it um but of course there is the issue that you know we are practicing muslims we are living in western countries and we you know we need to balance as such between you know following the rules of a government of a leadership that isn't muslim as well as being true to ourselves and being true to our dean so how should we as muslims how should we behave while living within a non muslim state yes it goes with the saying that you you need to follow the law of the land um and this is where you're living but as a practice muslim sometimes they may be um if you like difficulties um and the example that was cited um earlier on or the other day that for example um sometimes they don't allow you to wear hijab or niqab uh well that is a duty that you must observe or at least the female muslim must observe and um there is no way out of it and basically if for example uh alhamdulillah for example in in this country muslim women don't have a problem of wearing if you like hijab or niqab alhamdulillah and so they don't have a problem as such but in other countries um they have sort of prohibited it if you are if you want to teach for example in a public school or so on or work in an office uh then you shouldn't wear hijab i think the muslims their need through legal means need to pursue this goal to remove this ban so that they can freely practice their faith in the sense that female muslims can wear hijab while working at public schools on and any other public office and location yes we we have to stand up against injustice because that is what it is at the end of the day unfortunately and inshallah we'll prove ourselves worthy thank you once again for that wonderful discussion doctors ahead but my dear brothers and sisters please do stay tuned as up next sister fatima is going to be discussing the issue of mental health inshallah