 You don't need me since I'm don't have data since I'm just using my phone. I might see you come home tomorrow. Right. Yeah, this is how he didn't come with me. Yeah, I know I saw him working with your. Yeah. Okay. Bye. Bye bye. I'm taking in historic buildings here. It's so beautiful. And the regulations are so meaningful here. Okay. So welcome to this hearing of the local historic district commission. We are conducting this meeting by a remote means, but members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone. In person, the attendance of the members of the public will not be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public and adequate may access the proceedings in real time. Biotechnological means a hyperlink to the hearing will be posted on the town's online calendar. So today's hearing is going to begin with a review of a proposal that we received from see where is this from. From see where is this from Beth Eagleston. And Nate, do you want to talk about that proposal? Do we have anybody here from. Yeah, if you just if it's a request to modify the garage with a new roofline material. You know, future solar installation new windows door and possibly some siding. So if there's someone here for the application that could raise their hand and it will move you over to a panelist. So, Beth Eagleston and her husband, Alan, thank guys and are here. Great. Thank you for coming Beth and Alan. We're ready to talk about your project. So would you like to talk to us about it? Sure. So we have a garage in our backyard that is no longer attached to the driveway. The garage was built in the 2000s. And we can get into the details of why the driveway is no longer attached, but it has to do with someone not following the permit that they had before. The garage does not match the house in terms of its roofline and character. And we would like to change the roofline so it is more in line with the architecture of our house and the neighborhood to make it more visually appealing to us and to the people walking on the street. And it will remain the same size. We will make it the front will be similar to parents but change the overhead garage door to a casement window for casement windows, keep the front door and have a sitting area in the front and maintain storage in the back. I think we have some pictures don't we Nate. Yeah, I was just getting them ready to share the screen for everyone. This is visible. Here's the existing garage. It's just another image from the, from the driveway. So it is visible from the street and the plans are to, you know, here's existing roofline the dotted line is to raise the roof. Change the door and then put in new windows. And then, you know, obviously fix the siding. However, that's if it's necessary. This is just a little more detail framing plan. Is the plan to keep the same siding that you've got now or something different. The plan is to maintain the cedar siding obviously some parts of it might need to be replaced based on the construction but not to alter the, the majority of the siding. I like this plan. I think it's going to be much nicer. But I'm willing to hear what other people have to say. Do we have here's the doors. You know, just the door specification is similar to what's there. I agree with Nancy I think this is going to be an improvement. And I congratulate you for this plan. Thank you we have been trying to figure out what to do with this garage since we bought the house because it really doesn't match the house or the neighborhood. I'm just wondering if I could see the sketch again. Sure. Yeah, the sketch will go back to here. Well, somebody busy. Is that visible for everyone. No, we're looking at calendar. You're looking at my calendar. Yes. Sorry. That's that's weird. Let me try that again. I put my bank statement on Facebook. My kids have to tell me that I did it. So is the door going to be solid or is it going to have the city is it going to be the same door that you guys have. It'll be similar in appearance. We haven't picked out the door. It may be the one that we have now has a window in it. This is obviously an improvement, but if you're going to do, if you're going to have a war door with multi pains, I was just wondering if you could maybe, you know, for your windows do four over one or something to match. Is that more expensive or that's just. Instead of the overhead door, we will have four casement windows. Is that what you're talking about? Yeah, no, I just wondering if, if you're doing one over one in terms of pains, I was just wondering if you're having a door with multi, you know, this is quibbling and it's not, I'm just suggesting it. And it's not to your taste. I'm certainly. So he's saying here, I'll annotate this right so you did something like, you know, four over one. Oh, yeah, yeah, I think we would totally make the match. That's all, that's the only comment. Yeah. If you're going to have windows on your door, it'd be nice to have that. If you're not going to, you know, anyway, there's a lot of pain, you know, horrible ones in the neighborhood. So, you know, preferably I would, you know, as an aesthetic thing would like a four over one. Yeah, I think that we would, we would definitely do that. We would certainly make the match. Okay, great. Nicole. I guess that was similar comment as well because a garage door, you know, it's kind of now more of a little, a little house or a little, a little addition. So, like if the, it was more about the aesthetics of the window in the door, like if that was going to be the same style as the house because we don't have pictures of that. I think we would match it to the house. Yeah. I mean, part of our issue with the garage is that it doesn't match the house at all right now. And so I think we would do everything we can to, you know, match the windows we're trying to match the roof line will match the, the shingles on the roof. So yeah, I think we would, we would match the house, which looks like we all have all of our windows are just split down the middle. So they're like, what, two point, you know, two, two over two. That would be what we call it. Yeah. Yeah. So I think we would try to match that. I mean, at the very least, we would make the windows and the door of the garage match each other. Oh yeah, you can kind of see the windows of the house now on that right here. Yeah. Yeah, let's see it. See, I think you have your hand, is your hand raised again. Me? Yeah. No, no. I think you can lower it. I'm just in confidence. Yeah. Do we have any other comments or concerns about this project? Well, I think what we've seen we've all see as an improvement and we're pleased to see you fixing up your garage. We're trying to make it more historically appropriate. So let's take a vote on approving this project. Karen? Before that, would there be any, you know, would you want to put a condition or something in the motion about matching the doors and windows to them to each other on the garage or matching the house? I feel like that's one of the things that was discussed. I'm not sure if anyone wants to make that a condition of the, of the motion. I'll move to make, you know, to have it be that the windows match the design of the main house as a condition. It looks like we have another person who's from the public who's raised your hand, Connor Ennis. Sure. How you can I meet yourself? Great. Thank you. Are you able to hear me? Yes. So I'm just wondering why there has to be a condition about the style of the windows. One that's clearly been stated by the homeowners that that is their intention to make things match their home. It sounds seems like a relatively honestly invasive space for historic commission to make a motion and make their, their project conditional upon that. If. Sure. In keeping with the neighborhood as is indicated. It actually isn't. It's a pretty customary thing. It's not mandatory as far as I'm concerned, but we would prefer it and it actually is not invasive and it's actually a pretty common thing in. In local historic districts. I understand. And I live in the, I live in the district as well. And I just, you know, I'm. Concerned about that as a particular condition of this one, it's already been stated and understood in a building that was constructed after the year 2000, which is clearly not a historic time period. So, yeah, so quickly, yeah, I'm native a planner with the town. So. It's actually common practice to say, to take what an applicant says and make it a condition because what they say in this hearing is not enforceable. It's only enforceable if it's a condition and is voted on by the commission. So last night at the planning board hearing. An applicant said they would move their mini split. Extra mini split to some location. And, you know, the only way to actually make that enforceable is to have that be a condition of a permit. And so it's really customary to take things like this and make them conditions. And so, especially in the local historic district commission, it's about aesthetics. And so the commission regulates, you know, the style of doors, windows, siding. And so I think these conditions are really appropriate. You know, if it's, if it's a financial hardship for an applicant, then they can say something, but in terms of being invasive, this is actually something the local historic district is designed to do is to actually regulate things like window patterns. Real patterns and exterior appearance. So. Yeah, I'll just add that this is not meant to suggest we don't trust. The applicant said they're going to do that. Is there like a, you know, a shackle photo on them. Because that's, that's the way it needs to work. So that we get what they say they'll do. Fascinating. Interesting. Thank you. Karen. Um, Can you hear me? Am I on? Yes. Yep. I kind of understand that if they run into difficulties with the windows matching exactly, do they have to come back? I mean, I do think that the whole purpose of this whole construction is to make it more aesthetically pleasing. So, um, I, I agree. Maybe we should just say we approve this instead of putting that condition on because the condition. I mean, they could run into some sort of thing. Does this really match? Do the windows really match? And it's clear that the desire is to make this attractive. So I understand that the person that, that from who called in saying, isn't this getting a little intrusive. Yeah. Well, I agree that given that both Beth and Alan immediately said that that was their intention was to make things match. I've watched a previous renovation they did to their house, which came out quite beautiful. And so I'm inclined to trust them, but I understand if other people feel differently. Steve, did you have something you wanted to say? No, I mean, I just said it's going to happen now. We might as well, it's a little thing, but I think it's would improve. It's an improvement and getting two over one window. That's a pretty standard, not a, you know, if it is a financial hardship, of course, you know, I don't think it should be a condition, but they're pretty standard windows. There's another building on the column or one update and some of the windows don't match. And like, you know, I didn't want to make a big deal about it, but it would have been better. They didn't come up before us, but the windows are actually inconsistent within the house itself. Most of the windows are four over one. Then in the second part of the bunch of windows that are two, it doesn't make any sense. I actually would prefer to, you know, particularly since the homeowners say that it's not a problem to make it a condition because I do think it's incrementally, you know, I think both an improvement over just, you know, modern windows. So Steve, are you moving that we included in the, I would like to still, I'm just countering Karen. I mean, I'm not, if it's a financial hardship, you know, like Nate says, I think I would prefer to have it as a condition myself. All right, then I think we have a motion that this be part of the condition if for some reason this is a financial hardship. I think the committee would be willing to adjust accordingly. But I think that you do have to bring something back to us if you find you can't do what we've asked. So do I have a second for that motion. I second the motion. Okay, let's take a vote then. Nicole. Yeah. Betty. Steve. Yes. Karen. Yes. Elizabeth, if you are muted, I just want to make sure we heard what you. Hi. And I support this also. So we will be granting your certificate of appropriateness. And thank you very much for coming to the meeting and discussing this project with us. Thank you. Thanks. Okay. So the next thing on our agenda is to discuss East Amherst as a potential historic district. And Steve has done some research to find someone who could do some of the research for us. Do you want to talk about this? Sure. I'll give a quick report. I contacted had he start up and asked her if we could, you know, she would be interested, you know, in doing the research for Faye. And she actually said that she wasn't. So then I actually went back and I researched the name of the architectural firm that did such a great job in 2014, which is Nate was right there based in Portland, Maine. And so I contacted somebody there and the firm has disbanded. And so the guy was really nice. One of the principles of his own firm. So he sent me a list of historic preservation consultants. And Jeff Melish, who was the guy that did such a great job was listed on it. So I called up the firm that's based in Maynard, Massachusetts. But Jeff doesn't work there anymore. But I talked to somebody with the war burden. And center gave her access to the Dropbox and she said it was going to be a problem. And then two days ago, you know, I told her that we're going to have a meeting I contacted her on Tuesday. And she just liked and just said that they decided it wasn't enough, $10,000 wasn't enough money for them. So they kind of put me in a spot. So then I went back to the historic preservation consultant list. And I saw that Chris Skelly is on it, which is like amazing because as I said before, Chris Skelly used to be the head of Massachusetts Historical Commission. He lives in Shelburne. I mean, nobody that knows more. So I actually called him on the phone and asked him as a favor, because the CPA, by the way, I finished the CPA application. I just haven't submitted it yet. But the applications do the 30th. So I asked Chris if he could come up with an estimate very quickly that I could present to you guys. And I told him, I can't get over how much money it is. I mean, I told him, I actually reduced it to 25 properties that he would have to research because in my estimation, like 10 already done and another 10 or like halfway done. And, you know, I figured that between us, we could, you know, or I could do it. And so he came back to me with $12,000, which is $2,000 more, which comes out to $500 per form B. Which seems like a lot to me, but maybe it isn't because the other firm may may maynard didn't even give me an estimate. So I guess I'm assuming that's what it would cost. I also contacted the guy that who helped us on the North Prospect Lincoln sunset and he said he would be interested. Sean McWilliams and I'm going to meet with him next week or so. But at least I think we need a budget for to submit the CPA application. So this is what we have. So you need approval of the committee to submit this or what do you, what do you need to things I just wanted to get to, well, last I can't print out the CPA form is actually kind of weird I can't print it out. It's a very unused or friendly form has little tiny spaces. So you can't even see what you're actually cutting and pasting so I can't present last time we, at our last meeting, you guys had voted we voted for me to present the CPA application. And unfortunately, I'm not capable of showing it to you but it's been finished I just have to submit it and with the budget, but I did want to just bring the budget to your attention. It's more than what you have been talking about. But it's the best I can do and there is a demo. So I just wanted everybody to sign off on that. Yeah, I mean, I think Steve. I mean, I think we could extrapolate from Chris's proposal and say if it is, you know, 480 $500 say $500 a property for for inventory form. I wouldn't, we could say go for 20,000 or 15,000 just so you know, the CPA committee can always ask to reduce it right but I just, you know, you know, the CPA. Yeah, I'm sorry go ahead. Yeah, I mean you know the CPA pot might be 900 thousand right a million 1.2 million. And so I feel like we could say 20,000 and you know whatever it ends up being if we really if we really have 40 properties or 45. And we wanted to get all new forms. I mean I don't mind putting in a proposal for. You know, 22,000 or whatever it takes and then they can question it and we can say okay well maybe we'll have volunteers and we can do less but I just, if we're going to go for it I don't mind having. Okay, so should I write should I call them back and just tell them to revise and send me a new budget. I mean it could just be that he changes like the to the 25 to whatever properties and then the fee would change I mean it could be really well no it says $12,000 I can call him up you believe me he'll be happy. Yeah, yeah. But are you guys all Elizabeth has a random. Yeah, I'd like to hear what Elizabeth has to say. I suggest that you go for what you need go for what you want to get the whole thing done. There's nothing worse than getting three quarters of the way through it with with some money and then not being able to finish it out in the way you want. And it may be that at the end we decide that some of those other properties don't become part of the historic district but at least you'll have the form bees on them. And kind of like once you're in the research, it's kind of easier to keep going than to add on somebody else into the project so I'd go for the whole amount of what exactly you need just echoing what Nate said. It sounds like good advice, Nicole. And I was just going to add, you know if if there are volunteers that do stuff between now and then you don't, we don't have to take all the money right I mean we can say we only need. Nobody ever returns the money but I said, I created form B digital form B for all the properties in the National Historic District I did not include some of the other ones. I'm just assuming that we're going to do, you know the Dickinson LHD they didn't even do form B they just submitted the National Historic District as their application. But anyway I've created some of them already done but I'll put $20,000 done. You know, I was actually felt kind of sheepish coming back for 12, we only got five for the Lincoln sunset but the difference is and I was thinking a lot about it Lincoln sunset, because it was generated from the neighborhood itself people are very motivated. And they did a lot of volunteer work and I just don't see because this is more abstract. I think it's better to subcontract it. So I'm going to go back and make it for $20,000. And I think you know some of the case you can make see for the funding is also that they're older homes and so the deed research may have to be done in person at the registry. So it's not you know it's not capable of being done online. So there's, you know, it will take more kind of active research whether that's a special collections or the registry or other things. Okay. Yeah okay so I'll just do that and then I'm going to ask him to do another. I'm not going to present it to you. I'm just going to get another, another bid from him and then I'm going to submit the, submit the application if everyone's cool. Okay, with that. Yeah, thank you for your work on that Steve. It's really great. And Nicole did you have something else to say or is your hands still up from before. No, it's actually more imperative now because they're proposing a, you know, and I think it's right on the East Amherst on College Street, what do you call them a lay. An overlay zone, an overlay zone so depressed and with the school can be a lot of pressure on this area so that's what I put in the application. And it mattered a little bit with us. Should I tell Chris, are you guys going to put Elizabeth it turned out that Chris Skelly used to be the head of the Massachusetts Historical Commission, and he lives in Shelburne so it's very close to here. He specializes in divide doing design guidelines, historic design guidelines so. He's really interested in doing it so they would like to how does the bid oh, what do I call him about that. Yeah, I mean the design guidelines that the town's looking for is downtown it's not necessarily specific to a local historic district but it'll become public I mean I'm assuming he can see it he'll you know it'll go through different state online platforms I'm assuming he's registered with like a local public service is Bolton or certain things so he would be notified of it. Can you give me a heads up so I can give him a heads up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no yeah I think it was really complicated. Interesting yeah. And he said it was their downtown as well. So, okay, yeah. Yeah he may have worked with it. I say he may have worked with the team so even we like this one either as an architecture firm out of. Is it maybe water town but they're small and they've done a few really nice design guidelines around around the state and they usually end up working in a team right so the architect will be the lead but they end up. You know, working pulling in a number of different private consultants and so maybe crystal, you know he can do that as well. Okay, I mean we worked with them on the other one and he was terrific. Do you need anybody else to look at this proposal before you submit it. Do you want anyone else to look at it. I don't even know how you go online. You know you put is an existing account and then you can save work in progress, but it's pretty pretty straightforward and I actually took a lot of. I did a CPA grant for the last LHD so I took a lot of the answers in there and it's updated them. And then I just did a very short overview of the actual properties. And you know that that tavern, the Dickinson bags tavern they actually audit Shays Rebellion there. Does anyone know what Shays Rebellion is. Yeah, anyway, you know that Shays Rebellion was a very big deal is almost like the tea party now and it actually people died it was impelled. I thought it was a different tavern. Tavern, but they moved the clock tavern. You're like way ahead yet cloud tavern was where it actually took place but the cloud tavern, the building was moved to the to where Dickinson, but one is now, and then rename so name structure with a new name but that you know and anyway it's pretty interesting some of the people like general there's a general Neptune you ever heard of him. Oh yeah. Yeah, his house is there he was a congressman and Revolutionary War general. Anyway, you know, the more I dig into it the more I mean, I think it's definitely worth doing so. Yeah. We could. What else do we want to discuss about making East Amherst potential historic district. We have other things we need to talk about. No, I mean, I agree. I mean the planning board met last night and they've been meeting to look at East Amherst as a potential, you know, redevelopment area along route nine and so you know anywhere from like the railroad bridge by Hampshire lumber all the way down to like Stanley street. And one of the members last night said oh would we ever go north along the common. And it's kind of interesting because right now it's zoned RBC residential village center. And I don't necessarily see. I mean, I thought that member of the planning board and others has said they like the character of way, you know, say north of route nine the way it looks right now around the comment and so I'm not sure why we necessarily want to rezone it to allow redevelopment. So I like the idea of a local historic district here. I like the idea of redeveloping route nine and having some two distinct areas. So, I don't know. I guess that's for people. That's for the planning board to talk about as well. Okay, Karen will expect you to do that part. So we move to amending the bylaw to include a review of the parking lots and other structures. Yeah, that's so on me I haven't I haven't done much with it I talk about it. I have tax I just need to kind of move it forward. Luckily the, you know, 98 fearing is a project that had been coming. Before the commission, they've been really slow to provide new information. And so I'm not sure when that will actually come back. I think they're watching. There's a ZBA case up on North Pleasant Street, where someone's trying to add a second duplex on a property it's getting a lot of resistance from the neighbors and so they might be waiting to see kind of how that works. But I still think we can regulate parking and other things now. I think that what we're hoping to do is just clarify it so that it's really not, you know, an interpretation of the building commissioner. So, you know, we can't regulate the use, but we can regulate the space, you know, the parking space. So, can you bring us some language to vote on at our next. Yeah, yeah, that would be great. I wondered if, you know, before we get to that, and I know you don't have a firm proposal, but would you say a little bit about why you think it's important to regulate the parking. And the other facilities, what in general is the reason for that. Yeah, so I think, you know, right now in our bylaw, we follow the state template and we said that a structure is defined as anything other than a building and it could be. You know, like a shed, you know, like a sign. And then further in the bylaw we have exemptions and we say that anything that's a structure that substantially a great is exempt but other other things aren't and so. So for two things one is what we're seeing now with a lot of infill is they you have to treat stormwater on site. And so they're essentially creating a stormwater structure out of earth or pipes. That's quite visible. And so, you know, even Valley CDC's project on Northampton Road right now, you know, the 28 units affordable housing, I think it's a nice project but out in the front yard they have a detention area. And there's a concrete overflow structure and there's grading and essentially it's no longer at grade. And so, you know, one of the changes was to include drainage or utility infrastructure. And I think it's defined, you know, the building commissioner thinks that it's already captured under definition but it'd be great to have just that clarity because, you know, you could have a new building in local historic district where they have to treat stormwater on site and then they propose to have, you know, this concrete overflow structure in the front yard, for instance, right and then. So that's one and then in terms of parking, we can't regulate use but we can regulate the space. And so it's a little different but you know, I think it's really kind of it's unique to Amherst because there is this conversion of single family homes to a different use right to rentals and so with that comes parking. And so I think most local historic districts probably don't have to be concerned with you know a two fan a two unit two family building right in Amherst that might just be, you know, a few cars. I mean, outside of Amherst might be a few cars in Amherst if it's two units with four bedrooms each that's eight cars and that becomes a parking lot. And so it changes the residential character of the district and so you know the language we've been looking at with the building commissioner is regulating parking. That's over so many square feet or so many parking spaces and so the commission would have the ability to say well you have to move that behind a building it can't be, you know, in the front of the building or something and so that's, you know, and that's where it also becomes important. You don't want to see a asphalt, maybe along the whole side of a property and so, you know, right now. I think the commission can regulate it say for instance if there's a proposal to have multiple buildings on a property and they want to have this big parking lot, the commission could say well your parking lots informing where your buildings are located but we want to move things around to make it more aesthetic right in terms of setbacks or the things. But if someone just came in right now and said I want to just pave my yard. There's really nothing to regulate that. So, you know, I do think it's, you know, I think local districts and other communities might not have to worry about that but in Amherst it just seems like it's because of this, the pressure on the housing market it's, you know, kind of this drive for people to create and fill and change the number of units on a property I think that's really why it's relevant. Thank you. Yeah, I mean Bruce coldam said it. I mean I was surprised. Yeah, he's, I wasn't sure, you know, it's like a few meetings ago and he's like yeah I actually think Amherst is in a unique position and we should because of this interpretation of the bylaw to allow multiple dwellings or structures on a property and so with that comes parking. And so, you know, we're saying there's one proposal for two duplexes on a property and everyone have 10 or 12 parking spaces. And that's, it's not, you know, it's not a local historic district or anything. And then, you know, the property is big but it's like wow that's, you know, 12 parking spaces with a turnaround and everything that's a lot of, that's a parking lot. So can we expedite this since it's coming. Yeah, like I said, I think we're, I think we're within the bylaw to regulate it now I think the adding it just can make it a little clearer. So, but yeah I think we should I was waiting like I said the attorneys were hoping to update the whole general bylaw this fall and this was going to be like folded into it so I'll try to follow up with that to see if we can. Great, thank you. Yeah, no I agree I it's on my list I, like I said I have draft language with the building commissioner and we just need to kind of work it out a little bit. So you don't have to explain. Let me tell you it's getting busy usually it's okay but this fall right now we. It's between, you know the circle commission is really busy, and then the housing trust and the planning board and block grants kicking up again it's just like oh, all right here we go. But you have a new person right, they can help you out. Rob staffs the zoning board but we never filled Ben's position so I'm still doing much of his role. Yeah we've we've tried to hire in our a few applicants have withdrawn it's been somewhat disappointing. Okay, have we got unanticipated items. Nicole. I just wanted to kind of update you because Nate and I over the last couple weeks since our last meeting to houses have come on the market that were are in the district. So 18 North prospect, the listing agent was like, totally on top of everything and everything about the local historic district was loaded in the MLS so I can see it and I'm like, I just let Nate know that that was all good. But 80 fearing is for sale by owner. So there was kind of no information about the local historic district, as there's not a realtor that's kind of updating the documents and making those documents available. So I had kind of left it in your hands Nate and I just wanted to kind of see moving forward. If this is the best way like for me to just highlight to you I saw this house come on the market like is it something that's going to come from the town of saying you know please inform any buyers that you're located in the local historic district like I think it's one thing. I'm happy to do it either way. But obviously with that other property with the listing agent, you know I could just say from listing agent to a listing agent here you go. And that's typically you know they are going to be with the listing agent but for the for sale by owner. Anyways, so I'm just kind of like throwing that back at you Nate. Yeah, I think with listing agents I think it'd be great if you could, you know the town doesn't follow the sales we typically followed after the fact and so yeah, we just don't know you know the assessors will see it after the fact. We'll only get involved if a potential buyer or the seller has questions and you know there's an attorney so no I really appreciate that you reached out and so I you know what we did was there's a. It's a it's a little data but there's a flyer and informational flyer and it's great just to have that to distribute so that the owners can see, see that and I mean, you know, I am surprised sometimes that people will purchase a property and then say oh I didn't I didn't know that it was either in a historic district or that it's historic or something you know just anything really right like oh, oh there's a easement across my backyard it's like didn't someone do title on you for you or help you and so. But yeah no I yeah I don't want to put it on us but if you ever see something for sale by owner or something that doesn't have an agent I think that'd be great to let us know and then we can try to figure out you know how to make it be more public and everyone be aware of it. Yeah, I mean even if there's just like a standard letter or something I mean like I mentioned before like it's a buyer beware state so sellers don't actually have to disclose anything it's not their responsibility it's the buyers responsibility to know these things. Or find out these things research these things. Yeah, so, you know, it obviously just comes across differently like as a as a realtor they're going to know I live in some check and what's for sale and Amherst every day. So it wouldn't be, you know, as odd for me to reach out to another listing agent and say by the way, you know I'm on this commission and I saw that that your house just came up. We as the commissioners would you know love for you to share this information just to help the buyers. Right. I should find out you're saying that just made me realize. Yeah, because of that right. And we had talked about this. Let me just make a note I will circle back with the assessor. We were trying to add this to a field. But I don't see it on the property card. Oh, that would be nice. Yeah, and it might be on an internal one but not a public facing one. Yeah. Yeah, because typically realtors will pull up the property card. Right, right. So for realtor for a buyer were to look at the properties they would see it then. If it's added he's saying it might not be there. Yeah, it might not be there. Yeah. And we talked about that there was a few we were trying to. That was a while ago actually so I. Yeah, we're trying to get that added in a few things just so that, you know, because it is all it's all public it'd be great to have some of this so it's not right this hidden information like oh I didn't know it was in. Historic district and there was a we were trying to add. Oh, there's one other thing. I wanted to add to the property cards anyways I it's just to me it's just like good record keeping to have that be somewhere in a central place like the assessors information and I know they have it so it's just a matter of how does it get displayed on the card. Thank you for bringing that to our attention Nicole that was very helpful. I like that idea. Do we have a public comment from anyone. Maybe attendees someone I called and said they might attend this meeting but I didn't see their name in the list and they all left after the hearing so. Okay. You know, Karen. No Karen has her hand. Okay. I'm wondering if if this is awkward for Nicole as a realtor, but it's important somehow to to make the owner aware that this is that he doesn't have to but this would be good to inform the buyers. We can make it upon ourselves that if we are informed by Nicole that this is happening to drop off one of these or is the town going to do it just to get the ball rolling. I mean we as a commission could take it on us just to drop off this and make it be known. You mean the flyers. The flyer. Now I think it's really about how they manage it moving forward. And so, you know, giving it to the owner they might not provide it so I think I like the angle of trying to get it on a property card. And then, you know, if there is an agent I, you know, I don't put Nicole in an awkward spot but she sees that she sees that in a way that I don't. You know, and so. I mean we used to send out an annual mailing to property owners but they still say that they didn't know or they don't want to disclose it and so it's one of those things it's really hard to make it available to the potential buyers is really who are trying to, you know, educate not necessarily the owners and so it's a, that's where the property card I think would be helpful just so it's, it's right up there. I agree that's in the in the future that should be done. But for right now, should we in the meantime, just drop off a flyer again to 80 fearing. Yeah, right. Somebody will contact them for sure. And I'm sure Jennifer will be there. It's a very valid concern. We need to get moving on that. I mean, I think, I think one of my thoughts was and again, like we have no control over what the seller does with it. But yeah, like if a letter came from the town with that flyer of saying we notice your house on the market, please share this with all buyers. I mean, like it's out of your control as to what they do with it, but at least, you know, then the best effort was made. I just feel like directly to the, I mean, I'm happy to send send the letter. I'm just wondering like having it come from the town it just seemed a little less of a nosy neighbor versus. This is a town thing. Oh, I, yeah, this is a different thing, but what about getting some signs for some of these districts. So people, even though they exist, you know, most of the other towns have signs for national registry districts, which aren't even local historic districts. You know, like sundown has one, Hadley has one, Hatfield has a couple of them. I mean, should we start thinking about I know that the new and Hazel Avenue, which is the African American district, there actually are signs up now, seeing that it is. So should maybe should we start thinking about. I would even do a fundraiser to make the sign, but you putting some signs up so people are even aware, and that's a good way to bring awareness and you pass a sign and says it's a, you know, local historic district and you know, there's no surprises. You know, just an idea. Literally buyers going to the open house are going to read that as they're driving up this. Yeah, that's a good idea. But we let's make that a future agenda item. I mean, years ago, the commission, historical commission wanted it and then they got bogged down by the design of it. I know the Hazel, or the, I think that's considered. It's not West is it West Side historic district. I know they were talking about it. So I think Steve, I think, yeah, it's something we should have we could continue and and it had been mentioned that it's something that would be done. So I feel like the nice ones at Hazel, they're streets on, I mean, they're part of the streets on. Yeah, yeah, but I just read there. Yesterday in the paper, for those properties were just sold to the same person. I hope those buildings, I mean, I guess I was like, I don't know if you noticed that. No, I didn't. Yeah, yeah, it's a shame. I didn't even know that thing was, I didn't know that street was there. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You include that in your, in your proposal, your $20,000 proposal. We'd like some. No, it's a shame they're shanties, but it's a fascinating street at the dead end street right behind the track, the Amherst College track. I had no idea. Yeah. Let's talk about signs. I made a note to myself and I think it's probably, you know, we have the way finding system up. We kind of have, you know, I feel like we have a good template. We know like the style and so we could just adapt it to have, you know, so many entry signs to these districts. I think that's a great suggestion. I agree. Yeah, I just wanted to ask what that Hazel Street is zoned. So someone bought four properties. What does that mean? It could do. Yeah, I mean, it's, it's just general neighborhood residents. And so, you know, it might just, they were, they had been owned actually by one family too for a while. And so maybe that they just all transferred all the ownership. Maybe they just, you know, I'll look into it. You know, the rentals right now. So maybe they're just considering keeping it that way. I actually haven't heard anything happening down there, but they're not, there's not too much they can do. I'm just looking at the lots are kind of small. And they have already pretty big buildings on too. So I don't. Yeah. Are you considering it could be a site for a local historic district because of its history. The whole neighborhood. The houses are in must have been very inexpensive to build and are not in great shape. So I'm not sure what we could enforce there. Well, they sold those three houses sold one for 265, one for 482 and one for 505. Whoa, really? Yeah. See, these are student rentals now. I think one is considered a three family. So that's where the family went for 723. Wow. 723. Yeah, I mean, you know, the apartment apartments, townhouses, that types of things aren't allowed in that district. So it could just be. That they're, you know, I don't know, maybe that they would just. You know, try to maximize the number of tenants they could have. Yeah, well, so signs, let's have that next time I do like that idea and I'll take some pictures and. We had a previous. I mean, we had kind of had a template marked up. I thought that. So we could just kind of. Resurrect that. Other items that people would like to bring forward. I was going to say for the, we could schedule the next meeting. There's 3 applications that'll probably be reviewed. They're similar to today and in the respect that I don't think they're. Too complicated, but they do have to go through the process. And so. You know, 1's 2, well. 2 are fences and 1's a deck and so. So I was looking at. The week of October 23rd, I guess. Is the 23rd a possibility for people. It's a Monday afternoon. Yeah, that that's good with me. Yep. For me. Three o'clock, our usual. Yes. If that's good, that gives me enough time to get the legal ad posted and everything. That works. And I was just going to add kind of to that conversation. Just so that it's not reliant on. You know, the family members are not family members, but the commission knowing the people and the individuals. You know, I do, I do think it is best to kind of just have it written up. So that there is no judgment on, you know, it happens to be a landlord and you. The neighbors don't know this person at all because they live in Boston. You know, and, you know, that whole like not trusting the landlord to do it versus the homeowner to do it or, you know, something like that. I think it is just better, whatever we do consistently to, you know, okay, great, you said that great. We're going to just write it up as such or, or whatever else just so it's in writing and it doesn't have anything to do with. You know, what that person's been like before, even if we know him or don't know him. I agree. But how do you do it? Well, I think this was handled well. It was just said, great. You said it was going to be similar to the house and let's write it up as such versus. You know, the pressure of not writing it and let's see what happens. I just think it's better for us to be consistent with having it written. Just because, you know, we have had kind of non-local landlords, you know, presenting such where there's not a relationship. Yeah, I agree. I think, you know, we've had an attorney do some trainings and she said whenever an applicant says they're going to do something, you just make it a condition. I mean, it's just standard practice. And so, you know, I think the other homeowner who spoke, maybe they were just concerned. I think they did feel like it was invasive. But to me, it's just it's common practice and the point of the district is to regulate these things. And so, you know, I'm really comfortable saying that. And I think, you know, it's not an onerous condition to have a grill style on a window. You know, it's kind of like, you know, people, someone wants to do a $30,000, $40,000 addition on their house and they complain about like a $300 fee. And it's like, well, you know, you're planning to spend tens of thousands of dollars, but you're not going to spend a few hundred here and do something. And so, but I think they, I mean, I agree. I think their property is nice and I think they'll do it, but we can't take them on their word and not take someone else. And really it doesn't become any, there's no action there. If it's not recorded on the permit or the certificate, there's no way to document it. So yeah, I'm okay with that. Yeah. I think it was the right thing to do. I think Nicole's like suggesting some sort of protocol in terms of informing people when they put their houses up and some sort of mechanism. Is that what you're trying to suggest? Or am I missing something? No, those were two different items, but yeah, yeah, two different items. But yeah, for the people, I am going to talk to the assessor to see if we can make it public on property cards at the properties in a local historic district. And we had talked about that a while ago. And so, you know, just as we say, not unoccupied on it, we could just, I mean, it could just go in the notes. I'd love it to be its own field and just say, you know, located in a local historic district and then. Yes or no. Yeah, especially as we expand to new districts. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Right. Yeah. So, Nate, for the for Greta and Bruce, do you let them know when the next meeting is going to be or do I need to let them know. I'll send an email out. Maybe tomorrow and just say, you know, here's the next meeting and we're probably expecting a few, few applications and then we can have, you know, other topics to review. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Well, then do we have a motion to adjourn? I so move. Second. All in favor. Hi. Hi. Great. Thanks everyone. Thank you.