 Welcome back. Jeff Rick here on the floor at AWS Summit San Francisco 2014. It's our second year in a row coming back to AWS Summit. We're excited to be here as 4,000 people at this free event. It's one of 14 events that AWS holds all over the country, actually all over the world. They're going to South America, Australia, Europe. They're starting out here in San Francisco. So as we always do, we go out to the events, we get the smartest people in the room, we get them on the cube. We ask them the questions that you want to ask them and we really extract the signal from the noise. So we're excited to be joined by this segment by Mark Nunicobin from Trend Micro, the VP of cloud and emerging technologies. Mark, welcome to the cube. Thanks for having me. I think we had your colleague JD on last year, right? You did? Yes. Did he tell you any scary stories about being on the cube? Yeah, he said watch out for Jeff. With smart advice. So let's just jump into it. So you guys are specialty is security. Absolutely. And the big knock always on cloud and Amazon specifically at AWS is it's not secure. Enterprises aren't comfortable. It's not secure. It's not enterprise ready. So yeah, what are you guys doing about that? Well, it's not just us. It's us and AWS. We have a very strong partnership with AWS. And a lot of what you just said is it tends to be a myth. It's just a lack of understanding. People don't understand that when you're moving to the AWS cloud, security works in a shared responsibility model. So now you're partnering with AWS to provide overall security. So they take some of the heavy lifting and then you have still have work to do. People just kind of expect the hands-off experience and that's when they get bit. So you need to know what your responsibilities are and then work with Amazon with AWS to make sure that you're meeting that and have a complete model. OK, so then we're how do you kind of help direct that process? What's the what's what's the typical thing that people miss? And then how do you how do you basically provide some guidance to make to make it secure for them? Yeah, it's a good question. So what we do is we take over where the customer needs to adhere to their responsibility. So the shared responsibility model means you as a user of AWS need to secure the operating system, your application, and your data. Everything underneath that AWS takes care of. So Trend Micro provides products and guidance and professional services help to help people secure the operating system with advanced controls like anti malware, integrity monitoring, intrusion prevention, as well as encryption for their data at rest. And then we also have a product that we call Deep Security for web apps that helps validate all those controls as a security scanner. And then we're happy to announce today that we received pre approved status for AWS, which means you can scan all your applications and data in AWS without getting permission ahead of time. That's not something that every scanner has. You have to normally ask AWS for permission. Otherwise, their security guys get a little angry. And in our case, we've got pre approval so you can scan. OK, so diving a little bit deeper. So you're basically basically people want to run security scans on what they have, but you are the only app in this week that's approved for this process. No, there are others. What we're excited about ours is that ours is a complete solution of packages. So our defensive controls also talk to our scanner. So you get an additional layer of intelligence there. And it's all backed by our global intelligence network. We call the Smart Protection Network, which has our over a thousand researchers contributing every day to new information. So it's a huge pool of data and that can leverage to protect your applications. OK, so talk a little bit about kind of two things that define cloud. One is this infrastructure somewhere and how that has really impacted security and what you guys do because you've been around for a while. And then the other piece is all these remote devices. Right. We want to access every application, not only from just my device, but any of my six devices that I have, whether it be my iPad or my tablet, my iPhone, my Windows 8 PC, whatever. So talk a little bit about how those two trends have really impacted security and what you guys do both as a strategy and in some of the specific detail. Sure. At a strategic level, I think the biggest difference has been that we've had to shift away from protective stuff to focusing on protecting on your information. So previously, we used to like to erect all these big castle walls and say everything in this box is good. Now, just like you explained, you've got all these different points where you want your data and a copy of it lives everywhere. So you've got a copy of your data on your iPad, a copy on your Windows 8 PC, a copy lives on the server. So now we are trying to address and we've shifted our products to address where the data is living and that data itself. So we know that if you have your private credit card information or your billing information or health information, that's something that you want to protect at a certain level regardless of where it sits. So there's been a big shift that way of thinking about the approach. And that means that our products need to talk to each other a lot more to coordinate defense. Interesting. So it's really not it's not so much about the walls because everything gets through the walls. It's really what they get to once they get through. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. And with the theory of one big giant wall to protect everything, no longer holds water because you have so many different areas. Right. So a good example is the Amazon, the AWS workspaces. Right. Which launched public availability this morning. Right. Exciting news. Yeah, very exciting. And that's a project that we were in on the ground floor with. So the plus level packaging, when they get access to additional level software, they get trend micro protection with that. And with that structure, why it's relevant to the point you brought up here is that your data now lives in the AWS cloud and they let you access it from any of those devices. But the data always stays in that one place. So they've tried to solve that problem of having your data everywhere by giving you access everywhere but keeping the data safe in one location. It's like the old Sunray machines. You remember the old Sunray machines? You stick your ID card as my brother-in-law worked there. You stick the ID card at any machine and your desktop would just appear. It is. It is. And then Google's doing a similar thing now. It seems like with Chrome and you log into Chrome. Yeah. You know, your app's kind of follow you along. Obviously, your email follows you along. Your bookmarks and those. What else are you keeping track of in Chrome? I don't really know. I'm sure it's all kinds of stuff. And really, that's the concept here, right? Whereas your access is distributed but the actual application is distributed at all. Yeah. And there's two ways to approach it. It really depends what the specific app is. But distributing access, if you're not going to give your users access where they want it and when they want it, they're going to route around you and figure out how to get it themselves. And as a security provider, we want to make sure that we're providing tools that enable people to provide that access so that you can access a document on your Windows laptop, go sit on the couch and access it on your iPad, and then get it from a browser somewhere if you don't have your device. Because that's how you as a user want to work. That's how I want to work. Right. And we can't let security slow you down. So that's been a big push. And that goes back to your original question about security as a blocker in the cloud. When you address security in the right way with the right tools, it's really an enabler for all these types of solutions that we've been talking about. And where does the LDAP, the single point of truth live? Where do I knock somebody out if they're no longer with the company? Is that tied into back into the enterprise or is that managed on the inside the Amazon portion? Where's that piece of data? That's a really good question. And the answer is everywhere. We've got clients who do it both. It really depends what they're more comfortable with. So again, back to Workspace is a good example. One of the things they announced today was the ability to tie it to your existing enterprise directory. So that now you can use your normal active directory LDAP that you have stood up today to manage a cloud asset. And they're doing those same types of bridging with IAM, which is the identity and access management. So they're trying to do that single point of truth which is really good way of putting it. And for most enterprises, they're more comfortable having that within their own walls. And that's just sort of a cultural legacy artifact. But we have people who are standing them up in their own VPCs and things like that as well. But it's got to be somewhere. Well, the other thing that you think is cloud is kind of a fundamental operating philosophy is it's all distributed. So it's really easy to distribute and make copies and move things around. But knocking them down is a little less clean, it seems like. Yeah, well, I didn't mean it's that old adage with the internet, right? Even if it's up as long as it's up once for a little bit, it's up forever. It's up forever, yeah. So talk a little bit about the dubbys book. I thought that was kind of funny when I was doing a little homework before you came on. We've got the trend micro version of cloud security for dummies. So can dummies really do this stuff? Or are we to a point where dummies really can? I mean, how far kind of down the curve has this technology or has this technology enabled people to manage these types of things? Yeah, and I think that the dummies book is really interesting because it's a hook, it's something interesting. There's a lot of good information in it actually. I was surprised when I looked at it for the first time. But what it is, it's a push and you see you walk around the floor here at the summit. It's not the traditional enterprise buyers. It's not the traditional enterprise groups that we're used to interacting with. It's mainly developers or operations folks or DevOps folks. So we're talking at people who are actually doing the heavy lifting and security is not their number one job. They know they want secure applications but at the end of the day, they're responsible for delivering a social app or a mobile game or something like that and that's what they wanna focus on. So part of the push for the dummies book was to highlight that we've got a lot of intelligence and advanced controls available in our products but we've tried to make them as simple as possible for the end user to use because we know unless there's a problem, you don't wanna worry about security. You just wanna know it's there. So that was the big push with the dummies book. I like it. The other thing I think is interesting that doesn't come up enough I think in the cloud discussion about security is how much time security breaches are from internal people and luckily most of your internal criminals don't work at Amazon. So they don't have the same access that they do if they're sitting inside the network. So I wonder if you could speak a little bit about how security plays in the cloud because of that type of attribute versus worrying about guys inside the firewall. Sure and guys inside the firewall unfortunately are still a concern because at the end of the day you're enabling your employees to work with your data and if you don't give them that access they can't do their work. So there's still a concern there but I think what you're referring to more is if somebody got inside your data center and tapped a main network switch they get to see everything. Because it's common that you don't run encryption within your own data center and though that's becoming less and less common because of recent media revelations and Snowden and all that which is a good thing. So yeah, you're getting AWS is taking care of that infrastructure for you now and they have very public assurances as to what level they do that and external audit evidence that are available. So now you get to focus a little bit more on making sure that I've only given you access to what you need to be. And that's really the best approach you can take. It's a combination of people and of process controls and it's about giving you the least amount of privilege you need to do your job. And that's nothing personal against you or people in general, but the idea is if you don't need admin rights, you shouldn't have them. If you don't need rights to delete a file you shouldn't have them because mistakes happen. I make mistakes, you make mistakes, everyone makes mistakes, right? So it's not just that threat it's just common mistakes as well. Yeah, it's a great quote the other day I saw people fail, hardware fails, software fails. So unless you have, is it Randy Bias actually? Randy, shout out to Randy, his deck about basically cloud and you need to have a software defined process that can deal with those three failures and act accordingly as opposed to pretending that that never gonna happen. Absolutely. Yeah, it was great. So what are we gonna be talking about next year? If we get JD on or Mark can come back on next year. What are you looking down the road at? What's the next big hill to take or trend? The biggest hill that we're pushing now is our core competency. We have a lot of products that do defense. We help customers secure their cloud deployments. But really what value you get from trend is our global view and of our smart protection network and our understanding of the criminal underworld and what's happening there. So you see we've had a couple of release, press releases lately where we've helped Europol and the FBI put away bad guys. All that information goes into our products to understand that not just that this is an attack but this is an attack by the underground based out of Eastern Europe normally targeted towards governments and things like that. So we have a whole bunch of threat actor information and which really sets us apart as threat defense experts and that's now getting pushed even further into our products and we're trying, if you go back to your dummy's reference, we're trying to make sure that we can do as much heavy lifting for our customers as possible and leverage all this intelligence that we've gathered to create custom defenses for them on the fly based on real behaviors we see in their environments. And then what about the industrial internet? I mean internet of things. It's a huge new opportunity, a huge explosion in endpoints if you will, both for distribution as well as access. Is that on your roadmap? What are you guys doing in that area? We have active research. Protect that engine on the 747 I don't want to make sure that they keep spinning. Me too, I fly on enough of them, I want to make sure that's good. Yeah, so we have uptrend wearable 5,000 people, 1,250 of those are full time threat researchers. So if you can think of a top 100 out of 5,000. Over 20% of the people are. Yeah, we are really strongly focused on technology and research. And so you think about that, anything you can bring up as a topic, I guarantee you I can find a guy in one of our labs who's looking at it. And that's really the fun thing about trend and working for trend is I get to see a lot of that. And internet of things is it's the wild west right now. So we've got seeing incumbents who have had invented systems for years who haven't worried about security and now they're realizing, ooh, we connected that to the internet. I've been on my piece since we were on there. Yeah, and then there's other things where it's impacting people privacy and Google Glass is a question. So we will have something for sure. But I think it's super exciting because it is absolutely wild west. Yeah, it just keeps evolving, right? Yeah, things keep changing. So Mark, thanks for coming on theCUBE. Thanks for having me. Mark Nunnicoven from Trend Micro, VP of Cloud Security. We're here live at Amazon Summit 2014 San Francisco. We'll be back after the short break with our next guest. Thanks for tuning in.