 Welcome to another episode of In the Zone. I am your host, Chris Broussard. We got a tremendous show for you today. We interviewed David Fisdale, the former Memphis Grizzlies coach who also was an assistant down in Miami. He shared some wonderful stories about coaching LeBron, James, and Dwayne Wade, particularly the moment, the practice where Dwayne Wade said to LeBron, it's your show man, it's your team. Lead us to the promised land. Fisdale was there for that conversation. We also have my man, Jason McIntyre in, for another episode of Knock Down Jay. That's always fun. But first, we're gonna start off, of course, with a top five list. And we are now at the first half mark of the season. We're midway through. So that got me to thinking, hmm, who are my top five MVP candidates? At number five, Yannis Antedicumbo, the Greek freak. He has put Milwaukee basketball back on the map. 29 points, 10 rebounds, nearly five assists the game. The dude is virtually unstoppable. Still young, team isn't winning like an elite team. Not a contender yet, but he is having a tremendous season. He must be rewarded and put on this list. At number four, Kyrie Irving. I get it, he's a point guard. He's only averaging five assists a game. That's second on his own team. That's 19s among point guards. That's 25th in the league overall. But stats do not tell the whole story. Kyrie Irving's leadership, his aura, his confidence in leaving LeBron James has really bolstered this squad. They're young. Their second leading score is 21 years old. Their third leading score is 19 years old and he's got them at the top seed in the Eastern Conference. Like last year with Isaiah Thomas, Kyrie's not gonna be the MVP, but he might finish in the top five for the first time in his career. At number three, Kevin Durant. Led the Warriors to a nine and two record without Steph Curry. Obviously scored the basketball. Obviously he hit the glass, but he also flexed some point guard muscle. Some playmaking muscle and ran the squad pretty well. Gave him about five assists a game, but more importantly and more astoundingly to everybody around the league, he's leading the NBA in black shots. You gotta reward Kevin Durant when he is doing that type of thing. He might even be higher if he hadn't been injured. At number two, James Harden. Might be higher, you know what? Would be higher if he were healthy. He is out with a hamstring and they're saying it could be up to six weeks. I'm sorry, if you miss four to six weeks, you're probably not going to win the MVP award. Only one player since the ABA NBA merger in 1976 has won the MVP award with more than 11 games missed. That was Bill Walton way back in 1977, but that said, Harden was tremendous in the first half of the season, leading the league and scoring 32 points. Lead second in assists, nine per game. First NPER, Harden been the bridesmaid in the MVP voting the last two years. It might happen again. Hopefully though, he gets back sooner rather than later and can stay in the MVP race. And number one, MVP over the first half of the season, LeBron James. Yes, this could be the year that LeBron matches Michael Jordan and wins his fifth MVP award. His offensive numbers are off the charts. Some people think they're the best offensive numbers he's ever put up in his career. He's having a career high nine assist. He's scoring more points than he has since 2010, his last year in Cleveland, before he left to go to Miami. He is having a tremendous season, also in terms of leadership, guiding him through Kyrie Irvin's departure and tons of injuries. Derrick Rose and of course, Isaiah Thomas. LeBron James, the MVP of the first half also, because you get some points for being there. LeBron is waiting in every game. Durant has it, Steph has it. You know, Kyrie has it. You know, nobody has, Kawhi Litter's hurt. I mean, everybody is going down and this guy in his 15th season, you talk about an Iron Man. You gotta give him some love. You gotta give him some points for that. So LeBron James, the end is on MVP for the first half of the season. All right, as always, it's time for knockdown Jay with my man, Jason McIntyre. I'm surprised you're back after those beatdowns over the previous weeks. But look, we're gonna throw in a new wrinkle since you like to keep score. I'm just having a good discussion. Life is a scoreboard. All right, that's fair enough. So since life is a scoreboard, since knockdown Jay is a scoreboard, we are bringing in my man, Josh Goldman. We call him Goldie here at Fox Sports. Nice little ball player too. Doesn't look like it. You got a decent jumper. You got a decent jumper. More than decent. He's a nice little, got a nice shot. I fed him with plenty of assists. Who wins one on one out of you two? I'm the judge. I'm judging you. I'm surprised he is a question, but I'll leave it at that since he is the judge. But so we gonna throw that wrinkle in. So let's get it started, man. What you got for him? Let's get it popping, Chris. So big week in the NBA. Once again, the Lakers are the biggest story in the league. They've overtaken everybody. Cab is struggling, but it's the Lakers. And Chris, I cannot help but get sick to my stomach watching this LeVar ball garbage, okay? This is tearing the Lakers apart, okay? And Magic Johnson is the one to blame for this LeVar ball drama. He got the Lakers in this mess, and I understand, I would have drafted Lonzo as well. But hold on, let me finish. He has to set perimeters. I know he tried that initially and LeVar ended up lying to him, okay? And then they had another meeting in November. Lon, LeVar said, I'm gonna week later, a week later. And now he's popping off again. Listen, Magic Johnson cannot let two rookies take all the questions from the media while Luke Walton is backed into a corner and just flailing there, twisting in the wind. Magic has to step up and do something with LeVar ball. I don't know what that something is, but Magic Johnson, longtime player with the Lakers. He's now in the front office, the most recognizable man in the building. Somebody has to step up to LeVar. It's gotta be Magic. So you said, one of the first points you made was that Magic got them into this mess, okay? So are you saying he should not have drafted Lanzo? He knew what he was getting into. And he did not set up parameters. So what should have been done at that point? I mean, because that's critical to your argument. So Magic drafted him. You're saying he should have drafted him. So you don't blame him for that. What should he have said to LeVar? Well, he had seen LeVar's recent history. Oh, my son's better than Steph Curry. And Magic Johnson had to say, LeVar, we're not gonna put up with this. I'm drawing a firm line. We can't have this. Or we're going to do X, Y, Z. Or blah, blah, blah, maybe we won't draft your kid. I don't want a problem tearing apart what is one of the best franchises in the history of the league. And the Lakers cannot have it. This is embarrassing. Enough, enough, enough, okay. You don't have an answer. Okay, you don't have an answer. If you can't say what Magic Johnson should do, then you can't jump on it. You have to have a definitive plan. This is what Magic Johnson should do or should have done. First of all, he did meet with Lanzo. He went to Chino Hills. Lanzo or LeVar, LeVar cooked them pancakes and said. And lied to him. And lied to him, but if you're Magic at that point, that's all you can take. You go there, you tell him, look, we're concerned about, you know, you popping off. He tells you, I'm not gonna do it. I just want to let you know where I stand. I'm a Magic Johnson fan. He is my favorite player in NBA history, okay? So I came reppin' Magic here. Continue, continue, that will get you nowhere. Continue, go ahead. Here's what I got to say. Magic is not mainly to blame. He does bear some blame as they all do. LeVar Ball is mainly to blame. We know that, we know that. He's the one that's mainly to blame because he should have enough sense, especially as a parent to let it go. But he's selling shoes. He needs to stay in the news. The only thing that's gonna help him sell shoes is if Lanzo is a successful player. If Lanzo's a star, that's the only thing. And he is chipping away at Lanzo's chances of becoming a star. So here is how I think the Lakers should handle it. So LeVar's number one to blame. Secondly, Lanzo needs to sit down with his father. A 20-year-old? Yes, a 20-year-old. I was a 20-year-old once. Yeah, and you stepped to your dad, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm 20 years. I grew up with an authoritative dad, not like LeVar. But when I got to college, I became my own man. And you don't step to him like you're gonna fight. You don't step to him like you're demanding him or ordering him what to do. But you can step to him in love and say, dad, just tone it down. You gotta quit going at the coach. It's causing problems for me in the locker room. You don't think he's tried to do that? No, I don't. Oh my gosh. At the minimum. You don't know that he's tried to do that. I don't know that he's tried. The logical guess is, Lonzo said, dad, can we chill out with the comments? Not when I see, no, that's not the logical guess. The logical guess is that from every statement that Lonzo has made, his body language, when they ask him about Luke Walden, he says, I'll play for anybody. Every thing he's done and said leads me to think he hasn't said anything to his dad. I can't believe you're blaming him. That's his opinion. So, no, I'm saying he has, Lavar is to blame. I'm saying Lonzo though, needs to talk to his dad and about like quit with the outland, please dad, just cool out with the outlandish statement. Then magic, I think the first step for magic would be go to Lonzo and say, cause Lonzo might be the only one that can stop Lavar from saying this stuff. No way is Lavar gonna stop because of what his kid says. Really? No shot. Again, I'm not telling Lonzo to go up there and get in his chest and be like, look man, you need to cool out. I'm saying go to him like, dad, this is killing me in the locker room. This is killing, like I like Luke. You know, let's just let it go. Like if your son comes to you like that, what dad would not take heed to that? You're talking about normal human beings. Okay, if that doesn't work. So I'm saying magic needs to go to Lonzo, talk to Lonzo about going to his dad. If that doesn't work, then magic needs to, if he, this is out of control, cause something we haven't got to, I'll save that for later. But magic needs to go to Lavar. If Lonzo talking to him doesn't work, then magic needs to go to Lavar and say, look, we gon' trade Lonzo if you don't cool out. We'll ship him to Sacramento. Listen. We'll ship him wherever he wants to be a Laker. So we will trade him. Who is the only adult in that conversation? It ain't Lavar Ball, who just yanked his kid out of high school to go play in Lithuania. It ain't Lonzo, who's 20. Magic Johnson is the only adult of those three. Leaders are supposed to be honest with themselves. Look around. Magic walks into the facility. Everybody's looking at magic. What do we do about Lavar? Magic, you're the guy. Where I agree with you is that magic should give a vote of confidence to Luke Walton. He definitely should. He should do that. But a lot of times people take votes of confidence negatively. They think, oh, there's the dreaded vote of confidence. Now he's about to get fired. Well, say nothing also is negative, right? I mean, just letting the guy twist in the wind. It's ugly. I spoke to one of the best GMs in the league yesterday. He told me the way to handle, now I don't necessarily agree, but he said the way to handle Lavar Ball is to just don't even ignore, acknowledge it. Just totally ignore it. I don't think that could work today. I don't think it's gonna work. I would endorse that. Goldy, my main man, my backcourt mate, we won a championship together. I don't think you could say that with... We did not win a championship. With Luforino over here. I mean, we lost in the semifinals twice. I'm sure we did lose with J-Mac. We did, yes. Magic is the president and face of that organization. He set up Lonzo on that draft date just as much as Lavar did, saying all the great things and don't take all of my records. And you gotta give points to the guy wearing the jersey. And plus, I'm a little afraid of those guns he's got over there. It's a victory. What nothing McIntyre, all right. I think that's your first win of the whole show. All right, well, let's go two for two here. All right. But it's not Lavar to blame. Come on, just be a regular player and chill. I agree. Yeah, nothing about him is regular. All right, Chris. On to your favorite player, your favorite city, your favorite franchise, the Cleveland Cavaliers. I'm looking at their struggles, Chris. They can't stop a nosebleed right now. Okay, lost five of their last seven, gave up a buck 30, I think, to the Orlando Magic. Here we go, Chris. There is no reason for LeBron James to stay in Cleveland. I'm just gonna let that go out there. And I'm not even gonna defend it because you know you hear that, you're like, that's solid, he's right. No, the floor is yours, Chris. There are plenty of reasons. Number one, you're from the area. You're from Northeast Ohio. You wanted to go home. To win a ring. Got it, mission accomplished. You wanted to go home, you know? So that's a reason right there. Secondly, there is something to be said for building. It can't always be laid out on a silver platter for you. You are the best player in the world. You are, I say the second best player of all time. Some people argue a minority, but some people argue you're the best player ever. You take up the challenge of leading this team back to a championship because here's the thing. How far away are they? I mean, they almost beat, they're gonna get to the finals as long as they stay. Who they almost beat? They almost beat Golden State in 2015 with Matthew Delavadova. This is not even close to the same. Stop it. I gotta stop you there. With Matthew Delavadova as his second guy. So all I'm saying, look, here's what I'm saying. All championships, like to go to a stacked team, if you're LeBron James, and just become a mercenary and just keep trying to win championship. I'm not saying it's the worst thing in the world, but I'm saying there is also something to be said for building a team. Time out. And they already have a pretty good all-star in Kevin Love. Let's see what Isaiah Thomas is, you know, as he gets back into shape and build it. Now, I get it, you don't want to keep going to the finals and losing, but would you rather go to the West and go out to the sports? Can we get a 20-second time out here? Okay, building something. The first time he was in Cleveland, he let the GMs build it. They did a terrible job. He saw the Boston Celtics build a big three. He went to Miami. LeBron built a big three in Miami. They won. LeBron goes back to Cleveland, builds a team, right? He has JR Smith, Mozgov. He builds it, he got the ring. It's time to build something somewhere else. Like in Los Angeles. 15th year. How much time does he have to build? I'm saying, when I say build, I don't mean start from scratch. I mean, you already have an all-star in Kevin Love. You got another all-star in Isaiah Thomas. You have some good role-players. Make it work. If you, look. Some good role-players. You know they have one of the oldest rosters in the league and they are basically capped out. J. Crowd is not a good role-player. Serviceable. E-Mine Shumper is not a good role-player. No, E-Mine. Tristan Thompson is not a good role-player. He was out-rebounded by Curry in the finals. If you want him to go play with Luau Dang and Larry Daniels. No, no, Luau Dang doesn't play. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. Look, here's an old... All I'm saying is this. To say there's no reason. I'm not saying there aren't things to look at elsewhere. But to say there's no reason to stay with, in Cleveland, there's plenty of reason. He wants to catch Michael Jordan. In a lot of people's eyes, you're not gonna catch Michael Jordan by going somewhere else and winning with a stacked team. You will catch, if you can turn Cleveland back into a champion. He already did that two years ago. Michael Jordan. That's all, that's enough. No, it's not. Not to pass Jordan. It's enough for the all-time- You go to the Lakers. Okay, hold on. Let me talk about his building stuff. Michael Jordan took a Moribund franchise in the booth. Moribund. It made them one of the top franchises in the NBA. That's, a lot of people will never give LeBron, taking him over Jordan until he did something like that and made it a dynasty. So that's the challenge that's there in Cleveland. And a challenge is always a reason to stay. So that's all I'm saying. I'm not saying he definitely should have stayed. LeBron, you said LeBron doesn't wanna be a mercenary. No, I didn't say that. No, Michael Jordan. I didn't say he doesn't want to be. Michael Jordan left to go play baseball. Then he came back, won with the bulls. I'm gonna come back with a wizard. That's a mercenary. I'm just saying, he bounced around. Everybody bounces around. Bounced around? He's saying that the Bulls throughout his prime. Kevin Durant just bounced from O.K.C. People are more upwardly mobile now. This is 2017. This is in 1985, Chris. The economics are different. The free agency's different. People move around. That's the new NBA. Now I wanna ask you this question, Chris. Who's set up for more success in the immediate future? The young, stacked Boston Celtics with Pixcalor, Gordon, they were coming back. The young, really promising 76ers. Simmons and Bede, your guy. Markel Fultz. We don't know what he is. These teams in the near future are going to pass Cleveland in the coming years. Cleveland's old, okay? They don't play a lick of defense. 29th in defensive efficiency. Celtics are one. The Lakers are top 10. I believe, Josh, you can double check that. I think they're still top 10. They're younger. They have more promise. And LeBron can say, Paul George, come on over. Just like I built in Miami, just like I built in Cleveland. Give me LeBron, Paul George, Kuzma, Ingram Lonzo. That is a long defensive-minded, really impressive starting five. Is it beating Golden State? Well, we'll see. They can, I'll tell you right now, they can defend Golden State much better than this Cleveland team can. That may be true, but look, Boston, Philadelphia. Their future is brighter than Cleveland. You're saying the immediate future. Immediate future. What's that? This year? The next three years. It's all based on, LeBron's got about three years left in his prime. I would think it's best. Which is crazy to say. Probably at best. Maybe two. Maybe two. Who knows? That's the immediate future. They're still the best team in the East as long as he's there. For the next year. What are they third in the East right now, Josh? What were they last year? They were second. Who was the best team? Well, Kyrie Irving's not here, so we gotta stop this last year business. No Kyrie Irving. It's a different story, Chris. Unless you think Isaiah Thomas's karate chops are gonna translate into play-offs. Isaiah Thomas? I gotta take a shot at your guy, IT4. He's had two very good games with them. One poor game. One poor game. It's the three games that I'm not overreacting. You are overreacting. All right, Goldie. You a Laker fan. Goldie, take off your shirt and reveal your trusted topic. Unless you've got another cash jersey under there, there's no way you won this argument. CB definitely won. First off, it's 2018. It's not 2017 anymore. And second off, LeBron's 36 and five versus the East the last three years. Why is he leaving the conference? Thank you. We gave you a round. About time we give the guy a round on his own podcast. All right, final topic. You moved on quickly. I gotta keep it moving, Chris. You love the OKC Thunder. Westbrook, I believe you got him on Speed Dial. He's in your contacts. You guys are tight. I need you to send a message to them. There is no way OKC should be looking to trade Paul George. I can't believe that I'm even hearing this, reading about it. Paul George may not stay. Let's see what we can get for him. First of all, there's no market for Paul George. The Lakers, everybody knows he wants to play for the Lakers. So nobody's giving up anything of value to get Paul George at the trading deadline, OK? OKC's not getting a high pick. And listen, it's only been 40 games, like relax. OKC's the top five defensive team in defensive efficiency. Offense has taken a little more time, but the other reason you don't trade him, things happen. James Harden is hurt. Kawhi Leonard is hurt again. OK, Durant's gone down. Curry's gone down. The Timberwolves are young. Why doesn't that logic apply to LeBron James and the Cavs? Because LeBron never gets hurt. No, but I'm talking about with the Cavs getting to the finals, which we know they will. Maybe. What about all these guys in the West that might go down? What if LeBron gets to the finals and Durant gets hurt? Let's stay on track. Yeah, all right. Let's stay on track. Just point that out, Golden. But it's just a fair point. But given what we've seen in the West, Chris, no way this thunder should be looking to trade Paul George. Look, right now, I don't believe they're thinking about trading. I'm not saying they definitely should, but I'm leaning toward that way. As much as I like Paul George and that trio, here's the deal. I got to hear this. Even with best case scenario, you don't calculate injuries. So let's just say teams are relatively healthy and have their stars. Best case scenario, they get to the Western Conference finals. Best case, they're not winning the West. I would agree. And they probably, at this rate, if they're the fifth seed and they win that series, let's say it's Minnesota right now, they're six, I believe. I love me some Minnesota to me. Let's say they beat Minnesota, which is, they might not. Then they got Golden stayed in the second round. So they may even just get ousted in the second round. In a good case scenario, like the trio is clicking, Westbrook and George and Mellow are coming together well. Best case scenario, you don't win the championship. So you're willing to take that risk that when the risk is, the reward isn't that great because it's second round or conference finals. You're willing to risk this guy staying with you. You said everybody knows he wants to play for the Lakers. So I don't know that that's a smart risk to take. Because then you could lose him for nothing. You're not, don't tell me, oh, cap space. Nobody's going to Oklahoma City as a free agent. So you said, Wait, wait, nobody wants to play with your guy, Westbrook? No, it's not that. That's a shocker. Nobody really wants to go to Oklahoma City. I mean, that's what it is. It's more about just locale. It's like Utah. Those aren't, You gotta get to Utah. They're not destination cities. I'm just saying. It's a lovely city. Yeah, all right. So resort to jokes and trickery, Trichnology. Trichnology. We're inventing words now. He's so desperate. The hip hop hands will get that. See, no, here's the thing. You got me off track with your jokes. There is a market for Paul George. The market is this, the Lakers, if they fear he could go elsewhere, let's get him now. Where? That's the second market. Any team that's a contender and feels like George can get them over the top. Mainly the Cleveland Cavaliers. And here's the situation. I was told when there was talk about George going to Cleveland in the summer, that Paul George was willing to stay in Cleveland, not just this year, but next year. Because remember, he doesn't have to be a player, a free agent. He's got a player option. And I'm told he was willing to say, I'll stay in Cleveland only this season, but I won't become a free agent. I'll give it two years. LeBron, if LeBron would commit to staying, LeBron did not commit. Let me stop you there. So I think Cleveland, if you're Paul George, you go to Cleveland, for say Tristan Thompson, the Cavs first round, hold on, let me finish, the Cavs first round pick. Wait, wait, Cavs or that Nets pick? No way I'm giving up the Nets pick. Oh, you're not getting, but you're not getting that. The Thunder are, Sam Prestige is laughing. You'd rather lose him for nothing? Sam Prestige, would you rather lose him for nothing? I would not take on Tristan Thompson's bad contract when he ain't playing with Steven Adams on that team. Tristan Thompson is not playing here. All right, then it could be somebody else. Channing Fry, he's a shooter. You need shooters with Westbrook, who I'm just saying Cleveland can come up with a package, Cleveland would be interested. That would be an all time stunner. If you have inside information and you could get Paul George to the Cavs for Channing Fry and Amon Shumpert. Maybe I need to play in your very right, Chris. Throw in something, throw in something, but Clee, if you're Oklahoma City, you need to be open to exploring. Are you throwing in that Nets pick? No. Okay, well then Sam Prestige's hanging up. No, he's not hanging up because Sam Prestige don't have any leverage. Sam Prestige is about to lose a Perennial All-Star for nothing. So what? He's got Westbrook for five years and 200 million. You can build around Westbrook with the role players that you get for Paul George. Maybe it's even, look, I'm not done because you don't have anything. Maybe it's even, look, they love him in Cleveland, but maybe you gotta throw in, you know who you throw in. I was gonna say Kyle Corver, but maybe it would be Jay Crowder because Jay Crowder- Jay Crowder's not bad. Jay Crowder is a defender. He can defend like Robertson and he can hit the three. Better than Robertson. Much better than Robertson and make three. So now you don't have to have a fourth, and I don't need a Crowder as much if I'm Cleveland because I'm getting Paul George, who's a great defender and gonna take his minutes. So there's a Colonel there. That's more than a Colonel. You know that. And look, if you're Paul George, put yourself in Paul George's shoes and you go to Cleveland, you clearly, you're gonna reach the NBA Finals, you lose to Golden State in a tough six or even seven games. Are you leaving Cleveland to go to the Lakers? Like you're losing Jay Crowder and who else? Okay, here's- It's a little- No, you're not losing anybody critical. You're losing Jay Crowder. Who? IT4? No! Get real! I'm not getting Paul George for nothing! Yes, you can, they gave up Victor Oladipo who wasn't valuable at that time. Victor Oladipo? Now he is, I give you that. But he wasn't playing that way for the first five years of his career. Not just last year- Yeah, like five different head coaches. That's not the first Victor Oladipo. Nobody, everybody killed that trade around the league. Everybody. Okay, so that's my point. You don't have to give up, you're not giving up equal value for Paul George. They wanted to clear cap space. You're not, they know you wouldn't get equal value for Paul George. Well luckily, Goldie's father is in a VHGF. If Goldie goes against me on this one- There's no way this fictitious trade is giving you a victory, but we'll see. I wish my father was a GM in the NBA, but I gotta go with Chris on this one. How can you, if you're the Thunder, your ceiling you just admitted was a conference championship. You're gonna lose Paul George for nothing. You need to get something in return. They got Terence Ferguson- I like Ferguson, by the way. You play him, man. He's a good- Oh for two, last night, he lost. Exactly, pieces. These are the pieces the Thunder need. I want this to be like the headline on YouTube. Broussard is saying Jay Crowder and who? Did you listen to me? I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is Cleveland can put together a package that gives the Thunder something, role players to put around Westbrook. Guys that can shoot the three. Guys that can defend. Those are the types you build around with Russell Westbrook. And it's better than losing an asset, a great asset, for nothing. Let me lastly add, I would be very upset if that happened. Because you just like killing the Thunder. Paul George and LeBron joined forces. That would be bad news for the Warriors, for the Lakers, who would never get LeBron and Paul George. Okay, what if Paul George goes to Cleveland, what do they do? They're legitimately good. I would be scared of them. I would be scared of them. I just don't think that's reasonable. It is reasonable, because that's how the league works. You're not getting equal value. That would be great news for the NBA, because all of a sudden the Warriors have a challenge. And then the Lakers don't get LeBron, the Lakers don't get Paul George, because they're gonna stay together, right, and give it a shot. So you just completely agree with me. Well, yeah, but I just think there's no chance that trade happens. There's none. Okay, this was an episode in ugly, one-sided routes of a knockdown, Jay. Thank you, Goldie. The great Josh Goldman. Goldie, I got 20 bucks here for you, buddy. Come on. Nah, good, you look, good job. Hey, Fizz. What's up, brother? Hey, man, how you doing? Doing great, man, doing great. Good, good, thank you. I'm hanging out with my wife and dog. Now, are you in Memphis or are you out in LA? I'm in Memphis right now. Okay, so you still living there? Yeah, we still have our house here. And, you know, if somebody comes along that we're gonna put it on a little pocket listing and keep it here so we can keep getting our, our residency here. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, I ain't trying to part with that money that's in California. I hear that, man. I hear that, that makes sense. Yeah, we'll be back and forth, you know, and I'm gonna hit Miami a ton too, so. Okay. Yeah, I'm going there next week to see those guys, so. Do you guys have kids yet? No, you all got an older son before her, but we got all together, so. Okay, okay. We can maneuver a little easier, you know. Yeah, yeah, that's cool. So we, let's go ahead and get started. Yeah, first off, how have you been spending your time since you were let going Memphis? Leisurely than anything else, just really spending a ton of time with my wife. You know, I got to spend a lot of time with my family back in LA over the holidays, which I never get to do, you know, to spend that kind of quality time with them was great and my mom's birthday falls around at the same time, so I got to do a lot of stuff. You know, I wouldn't normally get to do as a family member, so that's really been kind of my deal right now. And then, you know, some, I've had some cool little breakfast meetings or lunches or whatever you might say with some different people that I've wanted to learn from, you know, but I'm really about to get into that kind of stuff and start diving into my visits and start getting my education going. Yeah, so you'll go to like teams, practices, and how much do you sit in on, you know, do you get to sit in on coaches' meetings or is it more just attending practice and talking with guys or what? I got to be honest with you, I have no idea. I don't know what my access is gonna be in this team, but I'm just kind of going with the flow and whatever teams let me see and let me be a part of that I'll take it as it comes, you know. I'm just more, I like to, you know, I just like to learn and I just think that I got so much respect for so many different coaches in the league and what they're doing. You know, I just think it's cool to see how other people do their thing. Yeah, I've always wondered, cause you know, like you said, I mean, when coaches aren't working, they, that's what they do. I wonder how it works. Like do coaches, will a coach share everything he knows or his offense or, you know, cause this is a guy you're gonna be competing against, you know, maybe could compete against for a job at some point, you know, like I wonder how much they share. You know, it's interesting too, because I think it's when you, when you go visit teams, it's usually gonna be somebody that you're very close to or it's a team that's like elite. And I think when you become elite, you really don't give a damn. It's like, can you execute this better than me? You know what I mean? And then so you don't mind sharing, you know, to that extent. And then the other guys and just people that you so close to, you probably know their stuff like they do. You know, like when I go back to Miami, although I'm sure they've evolved a ton and I'm gonna learn a ton when I get back there, you know, there's just a comfort level between us that, you know, we can share like that. Yeah, yeah. And we're always pushing each other to learn and trying to help each other get better anyway. So, you know, those are the situations, you know, and you don't even wanna go bother those teams that's like in the mix of life, trying to make them play all coaches, coaching for life. You know, I'm not gonna bother no team, you know, under those circumstances, man. They got enough on their plate and I totally get it. Not that any of those other teams don't, but it's just a different circumstance, you know. No, I feel you, I feel you. And you mentioned great players. Obviously LeBron, Wade, Bosch, you had at least, you know, three of them in their prime. Yeah, I was gonna say, that's what I said in their prime, because Ray, yeah, I mean that shot, in fact, you, okay, since you brought up Ray, I mean, I think it's certainly arguable that that shot he hit in game six in 2013 is the biggest shot in NBA history. What were, what were you guys thinking before that? I mean, did you, everybody else thought it was over? I mean, I don't know if you can let yourself think that way as a coach, but you know, what were your, you guys thinking before that play? We all had that moment of great doubt. You know, obviously I talked about, we looked around at each other in the huddle and you could just see, it was like, oh, crap. Like we, this, this is really happening. Yeah. You know, and Spowe was, like I always said, Spowe was just that, I'll never forget the huddle. You know, he looked up, he said, one play, he just kept hitting the board. One play, stay in the moment, one play. And he ran a play that we had been running all year in practice, but never ran, you know, and a lot of teams run it as pistol hammer, this little action to get brown the ball back. He missed the first three, we ended up tipping it back out and he hit the second one and they just, our guys just kind of stayed with it. We fouled, they met one or two and we ran the same play again and good Lord, thank God for where I was. Chris Bosch, and where I was. All those guys had a part in, you know, real basketball history, man. And I just, it was just unbelievable. And Ray's was reacting to it all. What, how did he react? Cause I mean, was he just cool about it in the huddle or what? Oh, and once he got back to the huddle, no, none of that, no parts of it. You know, when we were in the huddle, doing the play court, the drawing up of the plays, everybody settled in, but when he made the shot, I can't say it, you know, I'm not going to curse on him, but he was telling them, get them after ropes off. Yeah, that's right. You're right. I mean, it was like, it was pandemonium, you know, and so, and then, you know, that series wasn't over then, we played another game right to the end. Yeah, you did. Tim Duncan is still probably haunted by the shot that he missed. Yeah. He was the bunny over Shane Battier, and all of our hearts was in our, you know, down. Yeah. When we was just like, oh my God, that's just the kind of series it was, man. I think it was one of, to me it was one of the best series. It was, it was, to me, it reminded me of the Golden State Cleveland series on Cleveland Beetle. That's how it came down to that, that last play, you know, just basically. And that's when you know you got the two best teams. Yep, yep. You played a seven game series down to the last play. You got two damn good teams. Yeah, yeah, when you guys were in Miami with LeBron, was obviously, you knew he was great. I mean, when he said he was going there, but was there any incident, any moment in practice or anything where you guys as coaches or even maybe players just realized, man, oh, this dude's better than we even thought. Well, it was, it was, I can't really say today, but I do remember a practice early on that first year where it was like he just said, I'm going to show you guys today. And he was unstoppable. Like it was just, it was, and everybody got to go at him. Udonna's got to guard him. Chris Boss was trying to guard him. D-Way was trying to guard him. Shane O, and it was just like, oh my God, like these guys are like, he's not going to miss a shot. And we can't, they can't stop him from getting anywhere he wants. We can't get a double team on him. And it was like, okay, we're looking at, this is what the top tier of, you know, the actual cream of the crop look like. Yeah, yeah. So, and then after that, we just got to see it a lot. Yeah. I was lucky, man, four years of it. I got to see some performances that were just, wow. Yeah. How did, because it, you know, this may be simplifying the narrative, but, you know, everybody feels like after you guys lost to Dallas, you know, Dwayne kind of decided, look, for us to be able to win, LeBron's got to be in the driver's seat. And that was kind of what happened. Did you, did the coaching staff talk with him about it? Was that just his realization or what? I was, I mean, it was the elephant in the room. Okay. For the most part, but nobody was necessarily saying it had to happen or Dwayne just told him. And Dwayne in his way was like, he was trying to have it happen organically and just, hey man, just take it. LeBron respected Dwayne so much that he was like, I'm not doing that. Like he wouldn't go just do it. And I said it before, we was just shooting free throws one day. And that second year, and it was me Dwayne and LeBron sitting at one end of the court. And Dwayne just looked at him and said, man, this is your team now, take it. And LeBron looked at him, he just gave him that, you know, you've been around LeBron enough times. LeBron kind of just gave that nod and that look. And Dwayne was like, all right. He was like, all right. Wow. And so, and on. It was different. It was beautiful. Yeah, cause- Because that first, yeah, you said making the job easy. Was it hard the first year because it was kind of that, like you said, the elephant in the room, nobody did, was it, is there a situation or was there where you didn't know whose team it was? Or, you know. Yeah. Well, and it wasn't like out of like them fighting for, it was actually them doing it the other way. They were all trying to get out of each other's way. Like Dwayne was trying to take a step back for LeBron, LeBron was taking a step back for him, Chris Boss was taking a step back. So everybody was getting out of each other's way and they got paralyzed early on, especially offensively. Who's going to take the last shot? You know what I mean? All of this stuff. Who's initiating this play? Who's doing this? What's our spacing around you guys? Like we were still figuring all of that stuff out and really our defense carried us that first year. You know, our defense was phenomenal that first year. I was best training camp I ever been a part of, especially from a defensive standpoint, those guys got after it. And Spode did a heck of a job emphasizing it. So, you know, the offensive part came the next year. Once those guys started to figure out, okay, here's the peck in order. And then Chris Boss, the ultimate sacrifice, he stepped out to three and he gave up a lot of his touches on the post. And you're talking about a guy who in Toronto averaged 25 a game and a big chunk of his game was isolation. So, you know, he really was the guy that was, he was the key to unlock it all. You know, the conversation between DeWayne and LeBron was important. But Chris Boss's evolution unlocked the whole thing. Was there a conversation with him or he just decided to do it and just like organically? He's asking, man. He grabbed him and said, he saw it before all of it. He said, for this thing to really work, you're gonna have to be able to shoot that three. And let's start working on it. And you just see Chris Boss, because he's so diligent every day, not talking to nobody, just getting up his threes with K. And, you know, sure enough, he gets hurt against Indiana. We find a way out of that series and get to Boston. We get Chris back for that series. And it turns out that his three threes against Boston was the thing that won our series for. Yeah. Yeah. And that game seven. Chris Boss in the corner, KG kept coming off the corner man on the drive, which is natural for fives. Yep. And Chris Boss just lined them up. And it was huge. And from then on, Chris Boss was the difference. Now, Pat Riley, he refers, I don't know if he still does, he used to call LeBron the boat, best of all time. What's your take on that? Is he the boat, the goat, whatever you wanna call it? I think he's got, I think he brings the most tools out of all of the people in the conversation. I think he is the most versatile player in the history of the game. There's no guy that could play all five positions, defend all five positions. And then score, assist, rebound, shoot from anywhere on the floor. He has all of it, but he really does. I don't think it was one player in the history of our game that has that many weapons at that level of athleticism that he has. How do we measure best of all time in goats and boats? And I don't know, I'm such a, I just know what I've seen in my lifetime and what I enjoy. And I just see him as the most versatile. I just, it's never been a player like him. You know, you starting to see these kids, the whole game has shifted to guys like him now. That who can be six, nine, handle the ball, post-shoot, switch, you know? Because everybody had to figure out, how do we put enough of those kind of guys on the Florida Guard LeBron? And that's what Golden State does. It has a chance to be Cleveland when they play him because they could put a lot of six, eight, six, nine, you know, size guys out there, you know? And so no matter who gets matched up on them, at least they got the size to try to battle them. Not that they always successful, but they give themselves a good chance that way. And that's what the game has turned into. Look at all the kids now, Ben Simmons and Ingrams and all of these guys, you know? They're all that, that type of player. So he's really changed it all. And, you know, I don't know if you, you know, ultimately I know a lot of people going basing on how many championships you've won, you know, all of that stuff. I know we've been lucky to watch a guy go through this whole process from his start till now, 15 years later, still watching him do it at this level. It's, we're very lucky. What do you, how do you feel, you feel like Cleveland's clearly the team to be in the East? Like they're clearly the best team in the East. Yeah, yeah, I think it's him. It's him, it's no, no one has him. And those, listen, those kids in Boston to talk. Oh, do I like watching them play? And Brad puts them in such a great situation to shine and to really, you know, highlight what they do, but they're not him. And they got, they got a way to go to get to that. And when the playoffs hit, he's beyond, he turns into the other him. It's a different, yeah, he takes it to a different level. So now, you know, I don't see no, no one in the East can deal with that. And so again, it's gonna, I just, barring injury and things like that. And the fact they're gonna get Isaiah, oh, come on, Isaiah's just coming back now. And you saw how that looked that first game, you know, because they, you know, look, I get why Boston did it because Kyrie is that younger super talent. And you're moving it to the future, but they clearly didn't get job liver back. No, I agree. I actually, I think, I mean, I think Kyrie is the best player in the deal, but I think Cleveland won it because they got Jay Crowder and the pick, you know, what Brooklyn pick? Yeah, so. Yeah. How many of those six, six, seven, six, eight, six, nine can you put on the floor that can guard everybody and shoot three? Jay Crowder is one of those tough physical guys that way. He's that Richard Jefferson that they don't have, that they lost in Richard. So now you know Isaiah Thomas, who, by the way, will put a dagger through your heart and smile at you while you fall to your death. He's scary good, but think about that. They got three guys now that can close guns because you know D-Wade can still close. D-Wade is not afraid of hitting game winning shots and rising to the moment. And they got them right in a great situation, leading the bench. I just, I don't see it in the East, anybody that can take them out. Do you give them, how much of a chance do you give them to beat Golden State? I assume that's who you pick in the West, Golden State. Yeah, I mean, I give them a puncher's chance, but I just think Golden State is the team to beat. I really do. I think with full health, Cleveland's really gotta play, I mean, at a super high level to get them. Cause the other part of it is gonna be who's gonna exploit the small guy? Who's gonna be able to exploit, can Golden State exploit Isaiah? Can Cleveland exploit Steph? Cause that's who they attack all the time when they get down to the, when it's just you can't score anymore. That's who they go at. And then it's gonna be the big, who's the big that they can attack? Can they attack David West and Zaza? And can those guys even hang in that series long enough? Can they continue to play in that series? Can the bigs for Cleveland, can Kevin Love and those guys play at a high level defensively in that series to stay on the floor? So it's gonna be, I think Cleveland has the best chance to beat them, but man, are they good at Golden State. That's cause they just shoot the ball so well. Yeah, it's unbelievable. And as you know, I mean, a lot of teams like Houston in particular, their philosophy is three pointer or in the paint for the most part. Do you worry about where the game is going? Like I was watching the Houston, Golden State game the other night. I know Durant, I don't think Durant or Hardin played, but you know, they shot 80 something threes between the two teams. Right, right. And I feel like personally, there's a threshold where if the game becomes, if it's too many three pointers, I don't know what that number is, 90, 100, I don't know. But that it could really mess up the game. Is that just, am I an old school guy who needs to wake up or do you think there is any validity to, you know, we can't get it all three pointers and layups? Well, here's the, Spoe used to have a great saying. And I've been exploring Ron Roth's things and say this to Miami, but they say, you know, you want threes and layups, but to win it, you gotta make tough tools. So you gotta have guys that can shoot mid range pull-ups, guys that can come off catching shoots and make mid range, guys that have floaters, you know, how many floaters had to be made last year's finals? You know, you have to have guys that can make the skill shots in between to be the best of the best. So that's gonna be interesting just to see how the number plays out, but the game dictates that to you know, you see it as a player or as a coach as you're going through the flow of a game. If it's getting out of hand one way or another, when you're on the good side or the bad side on how to adjust your game, you know, even Houston will recognize that something's not working and emphasize one of the others more. So if it's not the three ball, they're gonna attack you and you'll see them put an emphasis on attacking that paint, they'll do more catching and going, you know, guys out on the perimeter as that ball comes off the pick and roll, these guys are putting it on the floor. If they feel like they, you know, they're not really in a groove from the three. So you'll see teams adjusted, but ultimately, yes, old-timer catch-ups. All right, I got the word from you. I mean, I really thought I'll put such an emphasis on playing with pace this year and hey, we got to get the ball at the court, advance the ball, but we're going about 10, 15 guys into it. I look at our ranking, we're still 28. Yeah. It's the fastest of Grizzlies that ever played. I'm like, damn, how fast is everybody else playing? Like, you know what I mean? I saw something early in the year that said, remember the Steve Nash sons and how they were so fast compared to everybody else. I saw something early in the year. They would have ranked 26th in today's NBA in pace. Yeah, we thought it was fast then. Now it's everybody, you know? And now it's everybody. And the way teams are constructing their rosters are they're building them to be fast. And so, you know, you just see what is doing is forcing the five men that evolve, right? You see a huge evolution in the big man now where he's got to do so much, you know, he's got to be able to step out and shoot because the way that the point guard and the wings can attack, he's got to be able to switch. He's got to be able to trap. You guys, you guys had the two bigs in Gasol and Marguer-Sol and Zach Randolph. Yeah. And you obviously, you had some, I mean, what we would call relatively speaking, great success against Golden State. You beat them three out of five games. You, I believe, yeah. And can a team, well, first let me ask you, what would be, I mean, you've had probably as much success against Golden State as anybody. What would be the way to beat them? The best way to try to beat them, I guess. You got the answer, man. You, yeah. Play up early in the year. That's why I answered immediately. But they, you know, for whatever reason, I don't know, sometimes it's matchups with teams, you know, where you match up well with a team. You know, I felt like, you know, we had a, at least a solid game plan defensively that didn't leave a lot of gray area there for guys to be confused, because Golden State can make you look stupid. And if you got a bunch of different things you trying to do against them defensively, they're going to tear you apart. So we really simplified our game plan defensively. You try to be as physical as you can with them, but they're not, these guys aren't soft. They've gone through the finals this many years and they're going to roll there like after the ghost. Yeah, whatever. Backdoor layup. So you try that, but you really, it's more about your discipline. It's about really trying to limit the amount of time that they shoot clean threes, you know, but ultimately you, you need them to miss some shots that night, really. And, you know, we were just lucky enough in a lot of those guys where we caught them all some tough nights. And our guys obviously played well. And I do think when we had the Z-Ball-Mark combination out there, especially late game, the game really slowed down. That played to our favor, but I don't know how much you can get away with doing that over the course of the series. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you because I look at like, say even in New Orleans where you got cousins and Anthony and Davis, I always feel like, man, slow it down and play to that size. Can a team survive doing that in today's NBA? Well, I don't know if you could slow it down. I don't, at that, I don't think you have a choice because at the end of the day, if you're slowing it down to take twos and they're going down making threes in 10 seconds, the math is going to work in their favor. And so your margin for error continues to shrink mathematically. But the playoffs player arts, they still are a different game, but go to state, they will, I watch them, they force pace on you. And I think New Orleans is funny to the south. I think speed-wise, New Orleans can keep up with them from the standpoint of Boogie and AD can really run. And I don't think in that cell, and Alvin does a good job with this, they don't necessarily have to play slower to beat them up. It's just how fast can you get the ball into the post to one of those guys and let them go to work. And so, but I just think that one thing you're not going to do is beat them at doing what they do. Yeah, yeah. That I'm pretty sure that wasn't going to work in our favor, so, you know, you got to try to get to the free throw line against them. So they're taking the ball out of the free throw. This is a lot of stuff you got to be good at and do well that night to beat them in just one game. So when you think about a series, you know, cause even for Cleveland, when they beat them, they had to play great. I mean, you know, and they needed, they needed Draymond to have a, make a bad decision. Yeah, you're right. Cause that thing was on its way. Yeah. And, you know, so like you, you got to really, everything's got to work in your favor there or something. Oh, by the way, they got a hell of a coaching staff. So you know, Ron Adams, Mike Brown, Steve Curd, that whole crew, Collins like pretty damn good coaching staff as well, as long as those other assistants. So, you know, that's just not an easy out, man. And like I was telling somebody the other day, they really have got the, they're already on their way of doing it, but that's a legacy team for sure. Like, how can they not be? Like, if you look back through our history, that's, you know, that's one of those teams. And, you know, they're about to hit their four finals here if they make it back this year. And it's gonna be interesting to see how that plays out from a fatigue standpoint. How good do you think Lanzo is or can be? He's a three-pointer away from being the heck of a gardener's league. He's a good player right now. I mean, he, he, pace, passing, length. He plays physical. He rebounds the ball. Like, he, I like him. I said that when we played him, I'm like, man, that's, this kid can play. But again, you know, the further you go through this build, the worse that shot that you're just gonna end up becoming off the lead if you can't make three. Or at least keep people honest from there. And not obsolete where you just can't play with him. The further you go, your minutes are gonna suffer. So I think he's just a summer or two away from developing a good enough shot. And who knows, you know, where he can go with it. Cause he, for everything I hear, the kid can work. How, how soon do you want to, you want to be a head coach again, I'm sure. How soon would you like to get back in, into it? Well, I love to get in ASAP. I think I'm too young to be on the hiatus. We're doing a sabbatical. I don't think I had enough minutes long to be on ASAP. But at the same time, you know, I don't like wishing on other people's jobs. I just, I think that's bad karma. And I actually like every one of these guys, I have like nothing but great things to say about all 30 of the head coaches in this league. So, you know, for me to sit over here and wish for one of them to go down so I could have a seat, that's crap. And I wasn't, that's just not who I am. And they know that. So, you know, but things happen in this league and guys, it happened to me, it's gonna happen to other guys. And, you know, if the opportunity pops up sooner than later, I'm on it. And, you know, well, I love to get back to the sidelines, but until then I'm gonna just take every minute, you know, to learn and also, you know, enjoy my family. What'd you learn from the situation in Memphis? Oh, God, I can get a book full, right? Tablin' it out, yeah. I'm still writing out notes, you know, as we speak of just different things that I would do differently. But, you know, the big one I think that I too, as I came in there really, well, let me say it this way, I saw a window with that group of how long can they play at a high level? Tony, Mark, Mike, and Ebo, and Vince Carter to be honest with you. And how long can this group play at a high level? And because they're different, can I tweak them just enough to give us a chance to win it? Because that's the only way I know how to think. I wanted to win it. I wasn't playing around when I said I was coming here to win a title. Like, you've been around me enough times and you've seen how you've been around my folks. So, that's the only way I think. And so I went in there with that mentality and I think the thing that I really regret out of all of it is I went in there trying to force feed the leadership, force feed. This is who I want you to be, force feed my, where I see gaps in the culture that I think we should fill these gaps with this. And I didn't let that develop organically. And I do think some of it you've got to push on them. But I think it's much more just putting them in a position to absorb it. But I was just thinking, I felt like I was, and I used to feel, I felt this pressure of like, I'm rushed because I don't know how long this group is going to stay together at this point because it was, you know, whether, so people were going to say things like, oh, he got rid of Z-Ball and TA and all that. Come on, man. It ain't even about any of that. It ain't about me getting rid of anybody. This team, regardless of who the coach was going to be, is going to be in a transition. This is where they are. This is the NBA. Take me out of the seat, put anybody in that seat. The Grizzlies was going to have to make some tough decisions in the next year or two anyway. So, you know, it was just unfortunately how it ended. It looked like it was all messy, but really the relationships with TA and Z-Ball, those guys texting me right away when the whole thing went down. Well, that was an interesting thing. Yeah, like, I mean, you... That was great. Yeah, you're known as a guy that players really like. I mean, in addition to them, I mean, Damien Lillard, who you never even coached, at least not for a season. He came out in support of you, LeBron Wade. And then there were reports about Mark Gasol and your problems with him. What was the situation there? And I mean, that's odd for a guy, like you said, that so many players like to have, you know, the reports that there wasn't a good relationship with this star player. I just think that you're not gonna be liked by everybody. And ultimately, I don't even care about that, Chris. Like, I wanna be liked, that's great. I know everybody wants to be liked, but ultimately, again, I'm about winning. And we can work through anything if all we're doing is working towards winning. And so, you know, I went into it expecting that, you know, somebody wasn't gonna like me at some point. You know what I mean? Like, it's happening. And, you know, it's just for, you know, this isn't for us to be liked. I'm not coaching basketball. This is my, I'm not getting paid the money that I get paid to be liked. You know, Nick Saban isn't getting paid to be liked at Alabama. And I don't think he's very liked by a lot of people, but he's respected. And he's a winner. And, you know, his guys that have gone through that gauntlet with him and won, they love him. But he pushes buttons and he challenges people and he goes to a level that's gonna make people uncomfortable. And, you know, that's how I'm built. And, you know, Spoe's greatest line, I thought was embrace discomfort. And also, I try to create it as much as possible without, you know, I don't wanna overdo it and piss people off, but I'm also gonna push you to the place that I know can get us to the title. And that's what my whole goal was, was how can I push all of these guys, you know, beyond what they've done? Cause what they've done wasn't gonna be good enough being a year older. That's just not where the league is going. So how could I get them there? And I had to get them, that's gonna get uncomfortable. And, you know, ultimately when you losing, that stuff gets amplified. And that's what happened. Last question. You have one of the most memorable lines, excerpts, whatever we wanna call it in NBA playoff history, you know, take that for data. My blackout moment. When you see that, what do you think? Were you just, you know, just what was going on? Well, when I first saw it, I was like, I didn't realize I talked for that long and that I actually was like going on for that longer time. Like just not stopped without a question. And then now I look at it and it's just funny to me that I was that ridiculous. All right, Fizz. Well, look, man, thanks a lot for the time. As you are, I'm looking forward to seeing you back on the sidelines. And thanks a lot, man. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. Thanks, Chris, man. I appreciate you too, man. Happy New Year. Yep, you too. All right, brother. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining the entire podcast. You heard from David Fissdale. Very good young coach. Wouldn't you agree? Very good. Shock waves around the NBA when he was fired in Memphis. But he gave us so much. We did a lot of good stuff. We put a lot of money in our little team. We brought a lot of good stuff from there. And we did a lot of great mining. We really appreciate the mission. And it's just so cool. You're like, you're like, you know, what's the point you're gonna make? You still got that point. on the NBA when he was fired in Memphis, but gave us some great stories about LeBron James and the Miami Heat when he was there as an assistant there, exposter, and a lot of good stuff from Fisdale. And of course, my top five MVP candidates, and then knock down Jay. So check us out, go to iTunes, go to Apple Podcasts, go to SoundCloud. Leave us a comment, leave us five stars. Instagram, you gotta step up your Instagram. You know, whatever you can find us, go there and check us out on In the Zone. And we'll catch you next week.