 Live from Las Vegas, it's theCUBE. Cover EMC World 2016, brought to you by EMC. Now your host, Brian Graceley. Welcome back to theCUBE. We're here in Las Vegas, 10,000 people, a lot of energy around EMC World. Yesterday during the keynote, David Goulden said, look, there really is evolving to be two types of applications in this world. There's traditional applications and there's cloud native applications. And so today, right now, we're really excited to talk to you, James Waters, Senior Vice President of Product at Pivotal. Drew Dimick, Product Management for the new native hybrid cloud here at EMC. Gentlemen, welcome to the show. Great to be here, Brian. Good to see you. Good to be here, Brian. So Drew, I'll start with you. Big announcement this week around native hybrid cloud. Give us the basics. What is it and what's it going to mean for customers? Well, so native hybrid cloud starts with the very simple premise where we wanted to take the best Cloud Foundry implementation on the market with Pivotal Cloud Foundry and be able to take it to customers in a package format on top of reconfigured, hyper-converged infrastructure, which would allow them to implement and utilize the Pivotal Cloud Foundry environment in a very short amount of time. So we looked at the market and saw that there was a huge disparity between folks trying to use Cloud Foundry and then actually being able to use it of anywhere between four weeks to eight months to do the full implementation of their underlying infrastructure to support the Cloud Foundry environment in a way that's required. And so we said, what if we did this and we're able to deliver that in a day? Yeah, so this is all about kind of dealing with the mismatch of like, maybe it took a while to get running and but I can code really fast with Pivotal Cloud Foundry. How do I find a better balance of that? Exactly, exactly. And it came down to the reality in the market that if you couldn't get the platform up as quickly as the developers were expecting, they ended up going somewhere else and that's something that not every enterprise wanted to do. So we said, hey, if we are able to execute this vision, we'll be able to go into the market with something that's much more acceptable for on-premises consumption of Cloud Foundry. James, what's the latest on Pivotal Cloud Foundry? I mean, about every day I'll follow one of your tweets. You'll say, I was at Fortune 500 company here, so-and-so's running out, cool, thanks. What's going on with Pivotal Cloud Foundry? It's going really big. I mean, I think I flew out here with Bill Cook, our president, and it was kind of a buckle-up conversation. We're in a bunch of conversations right now where accounts that started off for us very successfully are now coming back and saying, what if everything that we had as software ran on this platform? Wow. And that's a really exciting time because you're never quite sure when that moment's going to come. Right. And I think one of the things that's happening is people are seeing, you know, the first draw is, as Drew said, like the developer engagement, you know, on Cloud Foundry's unbelievable compared to traditional kind of enterprise IT if you could just bucket things that way. Right. You know, kind of tickets and workflows like that. Great developer, you know, experience. But what they also find about cloud-native apps is it's a whole new operating model. As I said in the intro video to launching the native hybrid cloud solution with EMC, we have operators that, you know, one or two people are running 2,000 applications in a quarter of their time because the nature of cloud-native applications is that a lot of the resiliency is built into the pattern as opposed to the intervention. And that operating model is catching fire. And I think that's what's so exciting because it's not a fringe behavior, like a lot of companies had a mobile development team. For instance, it might have been 12 developers working as modern practices off on the side, but the core never changed. And what's happening is that cloud-native applications are actually starting to become the core of a lot of Fortune 200, 300 companies because of the operational model so much better as well. Yeah. So you can't go to an event these days of meetup that something like Tesla's not talked about. And people sometimes get a little bit cynical and they go, well, this new stuff is only going to work if you're starting from scratch, it's green field. You just tweeted out the other day about Ford Motor, you know, putting this into new vehicles. Like, give us a sense of like, what's going on with existing businesses? How is Pivotal Cloud Foundry working in that world? We have an incredible partnership with my friend Marci, who's the CIO of Ford, and Mark Fields, the CEO. We work together on an incredible project called FordPass. And Ford is at a moment in time where they're evolving from being a pure car company to being a mobility company. And FordPass is the expression of both a connected car as well as just connected experience with their end users to say, hey, can I help you find parking? Can I recommend other things that you might need as part of your transportation experience as part of the relationship with Ford? And they're using Cloud Foundry, Spring, and Pivotal Labs as the foundation for all of that. And what's really cool is that we're winning both the exciting new apps like FordPass, and then they're looking at it and they're saying, why isn't our data center cloud native? Why don't we get all these exciting attributes and what we do? And that's kind of the ones you punch a Pivotal right now. That's why I'm so excited about the native hybrid cloud announcement because then you say, okay, let's go make the whole data center run this way. And now we've got a bolt-in solution to just turn it on with less decisions to make. Yeah, and I think I've seen you use the term sort of value line, right? Where do you spend time? Where do you not? You've been using a term mean time to cloud, like put those in context for me. What are you guys trying to get across in that in terms of what's there for the customer versus spending time, you know, undifferentiated heavy lifting, if you will. Yeah. You want to take that or you want to? No, go ahead. So with the mean time to code is really how I look at it, but it's the, and it's really analogous with the value line that James has, which is you have a finite amount of technical resources within any enterprise. You don't want to spend any of those technical resources on non-differentiating efforts. And a lot of that is the plumbing and putting together of infrastructure is not really a value that's going to help a company differentiate their offering, their solutions, whether it be Ford or any other of the big enterprises out there to make themselves different than any of their competitors. You're not going to do that by building a better server hyper-converged environment with a network underneath it. You're going to do that by building more engaging applications, more engaging customer interactions with those applications. And that's where we want our customers collectively with Thivotal and EMC to focus, and we will take care of the underlying infrastructure pain and engineering and performance optimization that the customers need to have done to be able to be successful. So, I mean, it ultimately sort of gets people to move away from this five nines, four nines mindset to, you know, how fast do I get value out, you know, forward-facing value of the business, you know, customer-facing value. Can you talk, the solution was just announced in terms of being available. Any customer stories yet that you can talk about or customers' excitement around this? Well, we've done a number of beta tests, some in the transportation sector, others in manufacturing. They have engaged with this and actually realized the value of what we're delivering. So, for example, what they saw in a project plan doing all of the assembly of this themselves, including all the underlying IaaS and hypervisor configurations and all that, was taking anywhere between four weeks to eight months to get them to get that to production quality. We are able to come in with Native Hybrid Cloud and Pivotal Cloud Foundry on top of it to deliver this within four days and several of our beta sites as we optimize this. So, it was, one particular implementation took two days. This is from the network port all the way up to a CF login where a developer can push code. And that whole implementation is fault tolerant. It has all the backup and restore procedures built into it with all of the backing services that are offered by Pivotal and its marketplace. Right, right. You know, one of the things to me, having sort of lived through the VCE things and people want to talk about converged infrastructure, the amount of sort of intellectual property in terms of how to make a solution work that's come up through what Chad's building to now being able to deliver software, because it's complicated software. I mean, you know this James, you're in San Francisco, finding Pivotal engineers or Cloud Foundry engineers is challenging. It's a hot commodity, it's super high value, but it's not simple. The fact that you guys are turning it into a factory process in essence is really, really powerful. Talk a little bit, you know, you've had a lot of announcements recently. David talked about Virtua Streams now going to support Pivotal Cloud Foundry. Couple weeks ago, Microsoft was talking about it at Bill. What's the spread of Cloud Foundry just as a whole? So people have a sense of, you know, how big is it getting? How big is it getting? Yeah, I'd say, you know, Pivotal Cloud Foundry is doing incredibly well on let's say the Fortune 1000. So, you know, it's almost as quickly as we can get to these companies that were starting to get major, major traction at all the, especially in the Fortune 500. And I think the reason is that they have large amounts of human capital deployed in IT. And they want to get to that value line because as Drew said exactly, you know, that technical talent is so scarce. And so we have a very simple argument with them which is that you can have your smartest people figure out how to configure operating systems. We can have them shipping code. Like what's going to drive your business. And that's just actually just such an easy conversation to have. Like it's not a fight, it's not a mud wrestle. It is just, you talk to Sierra, say how many people are working above your value line? How many people are working below it? Our job as the Federation or family of companies is to get you to that value line the whole way from hardware, hypervisor, to cloud platform and framework as fast as possible. And so the number of companies that are headed that way and then what happens is the CIOs all talk. And so, you know, Marcy's very supportive from Ford and suddenly her 10 closest CIO friends all call us. And that's essentially the way that we're spreading because it's just a better way of organizing your human capital. Yeah, yeah. One of the big buzzwords about Errung's developers these days is Docker. People talk about containers. You know, one of the big misperception I think is about containers is you're seeing this huge interest in how to package a new application, a microservice. And then you go, now what do I do? Give me a sense from either one of you because you both follow that space. Like, give people a sense of how, the beauty of containers is the idea that it runs the same on my laptop as it hopefully does in production. But what does that mean? I'll go real quick just because I have opinions there. Yeah. There's kind of two ways of looking at containers. One is you can take an approach where let's just take your legacy and try to put it in a container to say, hey, I did something new. I think that's a failed approach because what you've done is you've bundled all of the complexity that you had before and just a new process management system. That's it. Maybe you save a little overhead versus a hypervisor, but I'm telling you ESX these days is really lean. So you score a fool's goal there, I think. The other way of looking at it is like, hey, this microservices approach is actually fundamentally about how your team is organized, how your code is organized, how you do fault tolerant service discovery, distributed configuration in your code. Let's go get that right. And that's where we have assets like Spring Boot and Spring Cloud that are also used by Netflix that really get you to that code level of microservices. So where we see people really being successful is a code level change to microservices. Things like Cloud Foundry do use containers to implement them then, but fundamentally just grabbing a container and putting some legacy code in it doesn't give you the benefits of Netflix's operating model. Yeah, sort of garbage in, garbage out. Yeah. And I think it's interesting, it's curiosity, it's discovery for people to do that, and that's great, love the experimentation. But I would say that Pivotal Cloud Foundry has the most revenue of any container-based system on the market, and it's not because we say container all day, it's actually because we focus on microservices and code to let us get to value. The how-to make it happen, not the numbers. That's right, it's almost just like selling containers for their own sake is interesting for a period of time. But who's running around talking about hypervisors these days? Right, right. So Drew, I'm going to give you the last word. What's native hypercloud going to mean to people who maybe came to EMC World, they said, look, I see David and Jeremy and Joe and everybody talking about sort of modernizing their business, what is, what is neighborhood hypercloud going to mean to them? How are they going to get value out of it? Well, come back to the value line assessment. And so what we are able to do with our value here is to be able to get our customers, EMC and Pivotal's customers to focus above the value line. And we come in with the solution that allows them to get their, essentially we're de-risking their journey to cloud native applications by standardizing on a repeatable and durable fabric that Pivotal Cloud Foundry can operate on and taking care of all the day two operations tasks that they have to do with all the pre-engineering that we've done on the platform itself. So I think if they get that as the message that this is about speed to getting to cloud native de-risking their journey there so that they can really focus on the real challenge which is the cultural change, the application changes that need to be made to make your applications cloud native have your teams work in cloud native cultures. Those are the things that we want our customers to be able to focus on and not the kind of bits and bytes of how the thing gets assembled. Yeah, so we've got native hypercloud making the underlying pieces, the operations, the ongoing, you guys are taking on that heavy lifting spring brute Pivotal Cloud Foundry taking care of that heavy lifting go focus on being creative, go focus on solving business problems. Guys, great, James, Drew, thank you very much for being here. We'll be right back with more on theCUBE live from Las Vegas here at EMC World 2015, 2016.