 Let me try. Perfect. We have just started recording the meeting. So let's see you all here on this occasion. It's very first meeting of 2022, joint one. First part of the meeting, pleasure to pick star this one. Also in the speech by Mr. Thomas Kubia from ICC, policy manager of ICC in Paris. Pleasure to have you here, Thomas, today. I think we can avoid reading the whole policy by the way you will find it on the wiki page. So I would love to handle this to Thomas to kickstart the meeting with his own presentation. Then after this one, we're going to present the merging of the two six between prefrontal sick and supply chain sick. Thomas, please take the stage, stage is yours and go on with the presentation. Glad to have you to be with us by the way. Thomas, do you have slides that you would wish to share? Yeah, if you let me share it, I can definitely. You should have access to sharing. Yeah, should be should be fine. Can you see it? Coming up. Okay, my computer just froze. Cold weather in Canada, Thomas, not in Paris. Well, Paris sometimes is also pretty cold. Oh, come on now we're not going to go down that road are we. You don't know cold road but I can grant you that you're saying taking a coffee. Okay, I think it's better. Okay, we can start so thank you first of all thank you for having having me. Today, for the meeting, I'm Thomas Kubiak policy manager at the ICC banking commission. And I'm together with our BCG partners Ravi Henspel. We are delighted to provide you some some insights on our project to develop standards for sustainable trade and trade finance. We probably know that the ICC is a century old institution, regrouping more than 45 millions of members co credits from almost around all countries in the world. And our, our task is to facilitate trade and companies developments. In the third setting institution, we took over the task to set definitions for what is sustainable trade and sustainable trade finance. As a result of our group and analysis we have released a paper position paper during COP 26. In November, which highlight our first findings. We will try to explain it and tell you what are the envision next steps for this project. So just briefly mentioning that this is this is a collective effort of our members so it's more more than 200 ICC members from various corporations. Banking and energy commission so really specialist in the field of trade finance and also ESG climate and so on. And we are really lucky to have the tremendous support of the Boston consulting group to on this task. So let's dive deep dive into the into our findings. So we ask ourselves two questions. So what could be the purpose of such standards and how to achieve them, which is perhaps the most relevant part for you today. So in the what section we were so meeting the Paris agreement requirements where we're obviously very needed, contributing to reaching the UN SDGs and bridging bridging the gap in current standard framework and clarified between between the various initiatives we have we have currently and how to do it was how to create clear definitions to support businesses. Implement best practices have workable it was really an important important part, having workable standards, pragmatic and university, universally used and easy to be to be used. And yeah, develop overall a robust framework on sustainable trade. So we framed it around five access. Each of them. We were analyzed so you can you can see them so the type of trade, the type of trade finance, the type of sustainability, the geographic aspect of the trade, and where in in the stages of the value chain. It was, it was also agreed, not only to focus and on environment only, but rather have a comprehensive sustainability sustainability view around the ESG so economic social environmental and have each of the 17 UN SDGs relevant in each in each dimension in their own dimension. And the challenge we quickly identify was to analyze the sustainability of transaction throughout the life cycle of trade. So we have the five components of trade from the beginning to the end so it was equally important for us to analyze from what what trade so good services doesn't. It's not clearly not the same and the same level of complexity if it's good or service until until the end use sort of what's the purpose and the end use and as you can see well yeah from the seller, the buyer, the way to transport it or transition side. Each have a specificity and where when needed to be to be analyzed. So for for this thorough study, we were able to frame and and this we believe understandable scoring matrix and discuss how to use them and further develop them for for end product for for it to be to be used and be and be and be useful. And so perhaps now I will just quickly end over to Ravi, who will tell you about how we thought it could be used in practice and how it was developed. Thanks so much if you can before the slide so I guess the big challenge was, I think Thomas has done a very good job of explaining part of the challenge. Unlike, let's say a specific project many or or alone where there's clearly one purpose. Given trade has so many different elements that can or cannot be sustainable. What is the actual good. What is the behavior of the center what is the end destination and use isn't being transported by by ship by road, and then also what is the purpose, you know, are we buying certain panels to put on top of factories with poor child labor practices that all these elements that make actually defining sustainable trade extremely complex. And one of the big challenges we've got was well are we over complicating the problem. And many times we thought that is the case. The problem is that what we don't want to do is put a sustainability stamp on a certain transaction where very unsustainable activities can slip through the net. And I think trade is a prime example. Again, one of the simplest is, you know, if you're if you're going to have the most ethical, you know, raised meat or dairy etc. But then decide to ship it across the world by air. So it arrives the next day and high end supermarkets. You can't call it sustainable. I think this is where we've got all these different dimensions. So what we actually did, there's sort of two outcomes to the overall ICC framework. And, you know, by all means, disclaimer, we don't think this is something you can do tomorrow. This is an end state. This is where we want to get to we need to move through a series of simpler transition states. So the framework is effectively split any given transaction into five components, the good the service, sell the origin, the buyer destination, the transition or transportation mechanism and the purpose. And then we've got the horizontal dimensions, which are effectively simplifications of the UN SDGs. For each, I suppose component of transaction and SDG dimension intersection. We would score it basically on, I suppose four levels. So one does it actively contribute to economic human social environmental sustainability. Does it meet sustainable standards. Does it no significant harm. So you can see it's like a sliding scale, or does it actually not meet the minimum requirements tool I it does significant harm. So effectively effectively lets us create a matrix that we can then summarize depending on how sustainable it is across the transaction. So that we have a simpler way of determining okay well this is the scorecard for a given transaction for us we wanted something quite simple quite machine readable, but also something that gave enough transparency, because one of the big debates we had is that it's not that useful to have a binary. This is sustainable this is not at a transaction level because different banks different buyers different suppliers will have also their own, I suppose thresholds and what they want to do business or who they want to do business with. The final thing we did is is add a purpose star effectively to determine is a given transaction actively mitigating the impact of climate change. Because this is one of those factors that many investors or banks really want to be able to report. Now this might look very complicated. If we just go forward a page, the intention again is to really present it in a much more simple way so effectively depending on the mix of the lowest scoring dimension. ESG and the best scoring dimension and simplify the outcome of transaction to effectively one grade a plus 2x or a plus star 2x depending on whether actively mitigates climate change, which would mean that if you put yourself in the shoes of a bank, you can say that the X percent of our trade is is B or B star, which means that one is a very complex space framework, while it can be very rich, you can also use it in quite a simple way. So, I guess, this is where we want to get to. I think one key sort of move on to now is sort of what that really means in practice. Because clearly, yes, this is many people's dream and being able to have the state of the fingertips. In reality, the reality is quite different. How much can you move forward one page. So suppose the challenge number one is what we really want to avoid is, as the ICC be drawing up new standards. There are huge amounts of sustainability standards. ISA BCI UN ones fair trade. And actually, the last thing we want to do is give banks or corporates SMEs any new work to do in terms of we need to have made with this need to comply with that. So our plan is to actually take existing standards, map them, and effectively use them as different levels, whether they're the minimum standards ICC recognized actually contribution standards, enabling actually hopefully quite a data driven forward way of scoring transactions based on information already available today. So for example, if someone says well this teacher complies with BCI, we should be able to say that actually it's going to at least be a B. Again, minimizing the overheads for those involved. Thank you very much. If you can afford one more. Now, I think back on the theme of practicality. I think there are sort of three key sets of considerations we move towards implementation. So one is 130 quite a lot. Like, how will this work in practice, what are the standards we need to use. How will this actually run, who will do the measurements, what sort of scrutiny will be applied. And this is relatively automated because the last thing we want to do is invent KWC all over again. So it's kind of bucket one bucket to I imagine for this call the very interesting bucket is what will be the role of technology, I think, building my last point. This needs to be a data and technology problem, not just a definitional problem. We can't have people trying to do due diligence and every single transaction. So how are there some sort of common data model common data elements that are captured within the ecosystem of trade, meaning that we can get to a stage where we're relatively automated with a high degree of confidence in scoring transactions. Is there going to be some central repository of this sustainability data and trade and is there some sort of order mechanism we need, how that's going to work out is a big question. What are banks or corporates actually going to do with this information, is it going to be used just for reporting. Ideally, we'll see financial institutions actually guiding their portfolio decisions based on sustainability transactions. So, given all of this I suppose where we are is we published this positioning paper into November and plan on what we've been doing is really gathering quite a lot of industry feedback and so that's ongoing. And effectively, reach the stage later this year where we can go live with a very bare bones form of this, this, this framework, before we move into a slightly more advanced layer and one until we reach the matrix. I think in terms of what that means on the ground is we'll be launching several working groups. And a lot of this is sort of only starts to be kicked off today. One is around actually how do we simplify the framework to better meet the needs of industry practitioners based on feedback. Another will be actually standard set is looking at what are the standards and how we map them to framework. And the thirdly, we are looking at some sort of a technology type work stream just to crack that problem, which we think is really fascinating. So, Thomas, anything else from you before we get to questions. Oh, that's, that's, yeah. I think it's the other picture we have so far. And open to any questions, thoughts, comments, and of course very happy to take them offline. Thomas, thanks for having me by the way. Before going on with the rest of the meeting would like to ask the attendance of the day have any, any questions for the two speakers today. Hi. Oh, bottom. Nice to see you. Hey, good, good afternoon to have with us. Good day. Good day. Good day as well. Well, thank you first of all, for the, the call so far, you know, very topical absolutely love this topic for myself. I just had one question for either Ravi or Thomas basically, I mean, what is the, how are you planning to drive adoption around this, especially because you know sustainability definition does differ from country to country. So is there a tie up somewhere with industry bodies or governments to see because the beauty of trade and also the complexity associated with trade is that it crosses borders. Right. So what might be sustainable in one country needs to be sustainable across the entire end to end chain. So have you given this some thought. Yeah, so that's perfect. That is one of the crux of the problem. So completely completely agree. I think what we haven't started yet that's that's really gonna probably start next month is this process of taking existing standards and mapping them to the ICC criteria. So if you meet standard X does that mean you meet our minimum standards, you counter sort of the standard sustainable standards, or you're actively mitigating the sustainability dimension so for example, you see a cotton that probably be mapped to our sustainability standards. And we think that by building that framework what we're trying to do is build a common ground of global sustainability standards or common mapping in order to have an effect so that we can create a common language across international standards or even cross industry standards. We're hoping that that would break apart quite a bit of complexity. Now that's easier said than done, because it will require quite a lot of governance, and the right standard setters and industry professionals to really make some of those I suppose the way I describe the output of that is almost like a globally recognized hierarchy of international sustainability standards and how to compare against each other. And that's going to be a long piece of work, we need to get effectively specialist industry groups to help oversee that. But we're hoping that that should tackle the problem. What we've tried to avoid doing is say, as the ICC we believe that this is the new international standard. The reason being is that eight, we all know that complying with standards from an industry perspective just as a huge amount of pain and cost needs no adoptions a massive challenge. The second is that actually you're right in sense that different standards are relevant to different countries. You know we always use the example of, if you insist that everything is transported by EV in Sub-Saharan Africa will, you know you're creating a lot of fear and back. So that's the plan. The, the other overall part of the answer is, like if we want to increase adoption, we need to listen to banks, we need to listen to corporates. We are engaging closely and will continue to engage closely to actually make sure that we, we reach that common ground or actually call for some advanced things is workable because by having the the most complex framework that nobody actually wants. People are going to ignore it, and we're fully aware of that. Personally speaking, I think, if anything this target states already on the side of maybe two conflicts. And that's what we're hearing. And I think as you progress your thoughts around this Ravi, I think what would be good is if you rather than trying to solve for a lot because trade is just by the nature of it is quite broad is actually kind of ring fence it into a proof of concept and just do it maybe for a very specific use case, you know, very specific industry very specific set of clients on it. And then once you have kind of use that as a sort of a sandbox, then, you know, think about, you know, from that whatever you learn from that experience, try to do it more broad. And I think a part of me also says is that just because trade is complex does the solution need to be complex right, you know, can we take a leaf from some of the work that has been done around green bonds and green loans right which does not have that complexity from the way they have determined the nature of saying okay we're going to label this as a green green transaction. So, so I would want to be a little bit provocative around this to say just because trade is complex as a main the solution has to be complex. Maybe we just use a leaf from that book and kind of and use it for our advantage as well. So that I'll just leave you with those thoughts. One by the way, this is very good point and pointed out correctly how complex is trade, but often complex solutions find pretty, pretty simple complex picture sometimes find pretty easy solution to be pretty simple solutions. So sorry for interrupting. I saw that Riccardo here in the attendance because the Cardi raised this answer to make a question and then there is another question by Sherwood Moore. Riccardo. Are you there? So, Robbie or Thomas, I don't know who wants to answer. Sherwood is asking how do you approach such a massive challenge, how long do you estimate this framework standards will take. We see it as a multi year piece, very much agree with with Bartner's point around start small expand wide. So I think where we plan to get to, probably for the UNGA later this year is a very simple bare bones framework, but something that's workable. And I'd like to take the challenge of having at least one works more complex example as well. But, but within quite an industry needs to do that's kind of the first milestone. It is multi year before we actually have this cracks. So the right standard set across across all the industries. We're going to learn along the way. Thanks, Robbie. I see faster John Taylor, the resistance, I would love to listen to him. John, please. By the way, thank you. See you here John. Thank you. And it's a pleasure to be on and thank you for inviting me to today's seminar webinar. It's been very interesting so far. I had just one simple question. As, as you know, I'm an honorary member of BAFTA and BAFTA has actually created a sustainability working group. That is looking at a number of issues around sustainability in trade and trade finance. And is very interested and keen to work alongside and in close cooperation with ICC on this effort that Tom Ash and his colleague described to us today. It sounds most interesting and also of course so relevant for BAFTA and its members. And I just wanted to ask, is this part of the plan of ICC that they would be very pleased to work with organizations like BAFTA on on these issues. Thank you, Andrea. Thank you, John. So it's, it's definitely not a task we were taking by ourselves. First, it's, it's a, it's the ICC we threw out its membership. So, so, like I said, during the presentation we have like already like more than 200 members, which are in various corporations, banks involved in the project and, and we received actually no later than two days ago we received the BAFTA comment on the paper so and we will like obviously closely cooperate and work together. Yeah, this is really exciting to see that this is attracting a lot of attention, a lot of comments, sometimes some harsh questions but that's how, how we're going to develop the framework further and, and we happy I think to have, to have BAFTA attention on this. So, yeah, I can already spoil it to you as going to be further cooperation with other institutions. Fantastic. Look, thank you very much. And we look forward to it. You'll, you'll get real responsiveness from BAFTA. I'm very pleased to hear that you have received the comments already and we look forward and wish you well in the development. This is an, this is an important project. And the trade finance community, particularly trade and trade finance can really do a lot of positive development in this area, but we'll need the sort of help that you are providing. Thank you. Thanks, Thomas. I saw Tom Klein wanting to make a question. Her thing. Thanks, Robbie. Thanks, Thomas here. Quick question here. It sounds like you guys are being technology neutral and implementation here. I'm wondering if you have blockchain as a consideration for technology or have you started down that path there. Notice, do we need a central repository, as opposed to a decentralized repository so you're smiling there Robbie so I'm giving you a loaded question. I should be more careful with words. The word central definitely didn't mean not decentralized. That's a very good question. So we have, we really haven't delved into the tech side of things. I think where we are from a tech perspective is KYC is such a, such a pain for everybody. It doesn't really work. It basically it's every financial institution doing the same work repeatedly. Many, many years later now, let's not go down that path. So there is a certain, there's certain activity around collecting information, storing information, bringing back up that information and using it that there have to be synergies about doing it smartly from a tech perspective. So that's kind of one. Number two, the less work it is to comply, the more corporations and banks will comply. It's really quite a strong case to get tech right. Central repository is one sort of idea it's effectively I think the big questions I've got are, is there a common data model, and is there a way to share this sort of data and record it. It's decentralized having not too much thought certainly cross our minds that there is a DLT type possibility to this, but I think it has to be subsumed also into the broader, how is sustainability data going to be managed across cross banking in general. Yeah, okay. Certainly use cases for DLT here. No, that makes sense something similar for those of you in the food, food world, a new era of food safety here in the United States don't doesn't specify blockchain but it was kind of in the back of the mind that there'd be some benefits for using blockchain or DLT's out there. I've never seen open SC before which is yes, it's, you know, that's a prime example of that is DLT, and it would actually answer a lot of the questions on the page for very, very niche. I think it's like prawns or something where it's like a very, very good. Good. Thank you. Thanks, Ravi. For the answer. There's one more question from a phone so it asking, have you considered schema.org structure parameters and data for your framework. To the prior question probably answered where we are from the tech and data side, not yet need to look into stuff like that so I appreciate the, the recommendation I think if anything it stresses that we need to get this tech group set up with people that really close this but it's something we'll look into and might pick your brains off and say if that's okay. Perfect. Please, please do. Please do and thank you for the answer and for an extraordinary. One more question from a friend Ricardo from my hands is asking Ravi, would you guys can see the collaborations regarding creating an implementation process for the tech that will be utilized within this project. So we're so general sort of mentality here and so much I'm speaking about the ICS they do chip in if it disagrees. We want to create quite open working groups to really capture the best of the industry minds. Yes, we're going to collaboration. The only sort of point I sort of. We're not yet at the stage where that we even have anything to implement from a tech side. So I think it's cracking the problem. Understanding the solution and then thinking about implementing but yes, we will be reaching out amongst the industry to, to create the right groups and if people are interested to get to be involved. We're not the tech group yet so I would recommend reaching out to Thomas in particular, so it can start putting that together. Yeah, totally. We have a question from Sherwood. Yes. Thank you. So, probably, thank you very much. I've been able to catch the very beginning of it so I apologize if you've already answered this question. But the challenges that you are tackling our challenges that we are also kind of considering how to approach in the climate action accounting sick. And we're actually, you know, kind of recruiting corporate partners to try to kind of focus on individual use cases to kind of figure out how to kind of tackle some of these things. So the question I have for you is, you know, as you think through your approach. What are some of the different examples one of the models that you look at to develop your own approach. I really love to kind of understand, you know, see how other organizations or other examples of when kind of standards and kind of protocols have kind of been developed. So we can kind of get really figure out that more practical approach, when, when we kind of arrive to actually kind of solving some real industry challenges. Just to catch your question, as in, what, what, what do we use this for our approach or Yeah, like how are you going to do it. I understand what you're doing but you know it's kind of more tactically, you know what, how do you go about doing that. Okay. So, the first step in real execution is, take a bunch of feedback from banks and corporates from the positioning paper, take that and start with the most bare bones framework. And what that really means is, is questions and compliance standards that banks and corporates could quite quickly actually answer, probably even like keep things climate related for now. Ideally elements or things that actually answered through data itself. So start with a basic framework. Use that as a proof of concept, and then layer on levels of complexity. And when I say start with a basic framework basically prioritized criteria that I easily measured. When we say easily measured, that is stuff that's already recorded or reported against in the industry. Whereas things are actually, you can do in quite a day to different way. Certainly built business already looking how to measure stable carbon as an example right. Actually, carbon transparency has skyrocketed in recent years is there something we can do that. We will start with just, are there any elements that are recorded today by by the relevant parties and trade. I imagine we might need to actually start in something that's far more measurable in the corporate world than the SME world just because of the commonality of reporting. And we from there, but to be honest in the first few iterations we're going to prioritize simplicity and implementability over rigor, just to get somewhere. I think that it can stop looking at the consensus. How do you make the sentence. The ICC. Yes, so when you have a bunch of different banks coming together in this particular issue with differences of opinion. What is your approach to coming to an agreement. The first paper was written was very much. There was a stake, a stake I chose by SCC, and we took on board feedback for about 200 banks and corporates. Moving forward as we actually start to set standards, we need to have representatives through industry bodies to really ensure that it's everything is fairly represented. But again, like what we're not doing is we are for one, partly for what you, you just challenge is we don't want to write the standards ourselves as the ICC, because we have no right to do that. And we're not an industry qualified to do that, and stand as it is. I work for her I can for my day job and you're describing what we do every day for internet governments. That's tricky. Yeah, it is tricky. I have to answer your question. Thank you. Perfect. I think we could, let's say, and this first part of the meeting, and then Thomas and the Ravi being with us today, I hope they don't stay. And we can restart from this point. This ends in the budget and suits it. Thank you. Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you Ravi. This was wonderful. That was really great presentation. Very interesting. So comes the second part, and by the way, I hope you will all stay with us because I saw this one by Lincoln, see what was done last year. If you all followed our pathway in 2021. Me in June last year we launched an initiative that we named breaking the silos would deliver the message actually in June 15. We called to action to let the states and working groups in the hyperlatch community, join forces together come close breaking the silos that they're in to deliver global valuable solutions. So, within this framework, major framework, we found space collaboration, and one of these realize at the end of 2021 that one of these can be merging hyperlatch trade funds safe with supply chain sake. This two topics been pretty intimately entwined if you look at what trade finances is so closely inclined with logistics or supply chain of course foreign direct investment. We thought I mean three Tom and I without a well known to say, and that's what we're here for today, presenting the state and the following steps to long go through. So extreme pleasure with orange team up. No secret that this year, and that's why I asked Thomas and Ravi to join us today will will be deeply focused in 2021 and in 2022, and hopefully next year on topics of ESG environmental social impact and governance topics and sustainable development goals as well. So, I'll leave them to Tom and to a week that are here with me today to unveil following steps along, we will go through. See, Thomas, Tom, can we let's let's also do some introductions here for those who are from the trade finance world and they know you Andrea but they don't know. Absolutely. And the same thing from the supply chain. SIG, they don't know you so this be good. So, folks, we, we've decided to think we would said one thing. It took us a lot longer on name and thank you for the people that submitted some some thoughts. We decided to stick with a very basic name here for the for 2022 going forward here we're going to be the supply chain and trade financing. We're not going to complicate it we, we really thought hard about global trade as one option but we wanted to get the logistics and domestic markets and those kind of things into it so we're staying. So the name is going to stay forward as supply chain and trade finance, and the wikis will be coming together, and all that kind of stuff and Eric will talk a little bit about that. So quick I'll do an introduction myself. I was one of the co chairs for the supply chain special interest group. I actually learned about the six to almost two years ago at the global forum in Phoenix, and I kind of got excited okay here's something that's more industry focused, as opposed to technology focus I mean certainly we, we understand and want to work with technology but I like the fact that there's. Okay, here's something that where we can play some use cases. And we all know that they're thinner on the ground. There's not as many as we'd all like him to. So I got involved with the supply chain sig and became co chair. I guess, late late into 2020 sort of leave all this kind of stuff here and have been involved since I'm excited for us coming together. My interest, obviously is in supply chain and use cases associated with that. I'm also very interested in governance I do some work with I triple e p 2145 basically as a governance standards of groups so I've been doing some work with that. I also am have a working on a startup around social impact and specifically around youth, and how to get global how to get youth who are not going to college into the workforce more easily and then help them stay in the workforce and provide future ready past going forward so those are some of the things and I'm all I'm thinking that blockchain is underneath a lot of these in order to make these things go. A lot smoother here for those of you from the trade finance side, I'll point you to the 23rd of October last year, myself I saw Jeff Stolman we did a presentation for the hyper ledger Washington group on introduction to supply chain. And if you're interested you can go back and look at that on YouTube that video to understand a little bit more about what's going on supply chain. So with that, Eric, I'll turn it over to you. Well, thank you sir appreciate everybody coming together today my name is Eric Betty gets I come from the logistics and supply chain world so I grew up in freight forwarders and customs brokers and what got me interested in blockchain few years ago pretty much the same time I've been interested in blockchain for a while but came to the hyper ledger say about two years ago was the frustration that I've been living for the last 30 years around bad information bad data in the freight forwarding worlds. So the logistics world, a lot of different parties a lot of data that's exchanged a lot of, you know, goods being float around the world by these companies, and not a whole lot of them have technology on their roadmap will not, you know, up to up to the at least before that they were not the industry was not a very technology savvy industry. So that's why he became involved in in blockchain became interested started an industry association to bring the supply chain world around blockchain. So that was started here in Canada about two years ago as well Canadian blockchain supply chain association. And now we're growing globally into the blockchain supply chain association just an overall industry neutral party industry association just that they build communities and build interest around blockchain for the supply chain world happy to be here as well. And now Andrea. How about you introduce yourself to the supply chain folks, everybody knows Andrea already but just for the sake of it right. No, no worries, Eric. I've been running the safety two years nowadays, by now. So we went deeply into this last year those of all of us who's been following us through the journey that we had. So, unlike some and not a technical guy, I don't have technical background, I come from the straight trade finance world, not even that's because I've been working basically into multinational companies so deeply exposed to all the problems all the features by create finance. And I have natural pensions for innovation so I found blockchain. The, the ideal workspace, not to go back to the old world, let's say so. So, let's you start cooperating in 2022 these two guys. What was missing. Yes, during last years in trade finance sake was delivering some projects intangible product. So I think all of the initiatives on the going within the community in 2022 will hopefully manage to deliver what was missing last year. So projects more and more into this. And of course this is the ideal case you see for fulfilling the project that we have. So the biggest goal is to let not only merging to say, but step by step and enhancing collaboration intra stage. So not only supply chain or only trade funds, but also socially impact climate change, because if you see, we'll be looking at this sustainability goals and looking to SG, especially during the last meeting that we have been Mr. That's a game sport, just like block chain is so seen under broader picture. In my understanding, this merging will lead to enhance collaboration with the rest of the six of the hyper ledger. And that's my very primary goal of this year. This is just the beginning. This is a kickoff meeting, hopefully more of the future we come will have special meeting. Like we did by the way in 2021 and come see and can wait to do to go for that. Andrea, can I add a little bit to that. Yeah, please do base base on the chart that we have up here. Similar to trade finance, we had a set of calls all last year for supply chain. We started off doing some small projects we had limited success and we're really looking for taking that idea and making it bigger, making it more valuable here I mean, these aren't just words here, the engage increase engagement and creating more value for participants and we'll have a next chart here we'll talk about how to add value. Or at least how we're thinking initially here, we're viewing would not bought and we're viewing this as we're all together on this we all have a similar interest in taking, taking blockchain and using it as a mechanism to solve a lot of the problems in supply chain trade finance and all the things that go around it out there. So from from that perspective increase engagement creating more value and an opportunity for involvement and thought leadership. I mean, we're old Andrea, Eric and myself are very open to words, thoughts, emails etc here to help guide and work together going here forward in 2022. Hi Tom, I just dropped. I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Sorry, you didn't want to interrupt you sorry I was about to read it, but you take the word. Take the stage. Go ahead. All right. Is this that because I have a hard stop in 10 minutes I was curious about about any POCs that you may have done some time I just posted a question in the chat. If you have done any POCs and if you could talk a little bit about that. Our group has not done any POCs itself. I'll talk about that in the next chart here hopefully where we're looking to do some sort of pilot around climate accounting and ensure what we asked some questions earlier was is somebody that we're working with and we're hoping with that group the carbon carbon tracking initiative initiative there is the last one that's something we're looking to do here and actually generate some code and build something here in 2022. Okay, so you're at a stage where you're developing the underlying technology at this moment right. Maybe I'll just talk about it right now. In short would feel free to reach in so so there's another sake here, climate action and accounting. So as part of breaking down the silos we said that yes we want to work with another other groups even besides merging our group. So as part of the climate accounting or climate action and accounting group. They've already done some work around measurement reporting verification of climate data. Now it's how do I what kind of tracking do I do associate with that and what kind of, I'll use the word repository after I asked a question about centralized via to be a decentralized but you know, some common area where folks can go and get climate data out there. And this is so we have not started bringing this all together although there's pieces of it. Probably the biggest thing is where do we want our focus to be there's been some discussion around gas flaring. How do we track that. There's some discussion about how do we track a package as it gets shipped throughout a supply chain. And what's the emissions that come along with that. Those are probably the two prominent ones right now but obviously the group would be open to others out there. Can I can I it does you know I just get a sense in terms of what stage you are on, but maybe cheeky to just ask one quick question on this as well. So when you when you talk about supply chain, what level of how, how deep do you go in or my maybe a question is how, how deep do you need to go in because you know there are a lot of downstream, you know, levels in a supply chain so I'm just curious to say the second question is, how do you deep how deep you need to go in and the second question is if the answer to this will be on the, you know, not just the first set of suppliers but the suppliers to those suppliers then what is a level that you can go down to. Oh you're planning to go down to. Are you asking a question specifically about carbon or are you asking that in general. No I'm just asking about carbon. Actually, one of the things I should have said is we're looking at scope three is the focus here. So, yeah, so scope three mean something. Yes, yeah. Yeah, so we're figuring that scope one people kind of probably have a somewhat reasonable handle on it right scope to again you know what power you're buying from different places scope three is all this other stuff out there. And I mean, one of the questions I wanted to ask Ravi and Tomash was, what are those all those energy companies that you talked to thinking about scope three they probably don't score very well on it. So yeah, scope three is where we're right now our plan is on the focus. Thank you Tom. Sure thing. Andrea and Eric do you want to talk about the other two planned activities here just in the interest of time. I'll let Andrea talk about what our schedule looks like and maybe I can talk about the hyper ledger challenge and thank you for taking care of the carbon tracking initiative Tom. Sure, we're all together right better together. So, there's a few plan activities for 2021. Basically, the goal is to go for every two weeks meeting as we schedule last year, as you saw, maybe we're going to have some some more I mean special meetings as we did in 2021 that we have to be really special. See, we going to shift. I mean, if you followed our activities in 20 in during last two years actually we were a street fund see deeply focused and deeply rooted in the epic region, the work participants from Hong Kong from Singapore as well. We'll deal ease in terms of the LTS and digitization. So we'll try to go out with these and have more meetings in the space. So we will shift. We don't have a really fixed time. Most probably going to shift every two weeks we're going to have meeting in the epic region to cover the whole globe. And have a really global outreach. So, we've gone to be deeply focused also linked with activities you will be notified see what meetings through linking not only on the main list to stick around through that. Our goal is to not only to be focused on meetings, as I said, one of the missing points in 2021 were the project. So we plan to believe more and more about this. The next step is to go for the overall capital challenge we're about to launch this. So Eric will tell you more about this which kickstarted the initiative will go to the following step with the conclusion that is the scene for all second this year. And as detailed by Tom previously we have an initiative to develop a carbon tracking solution with climate action and accounting. So this in 2022. It's just the beginning. As I said, we're going to focus deeply on us G and stable development goals is the real focus of 2022. So more and more, I'm planning to shift, not only I'm planning to focus not only on technical side but also outside of this deal with Dell to start with the legal side of the topics. So we can discuss some more speakers. I'll notify what's going on with the follow up very soon. So, follow us. I live down to read to display what we are, we are actually putting in place with the hyper ledger global challenge 2022. Thank you sir appreciate it. I have the easy job of explaining the hyper ledger challenge to you, and the difficult job of trying to do it in the next one minute because it's getting close to the hour so bear with me I will try to make this simple for you. Back in 2020 I believe the India chapter of hyper ledger had a hackathon, bringing together the student community, the developer community around building, you know, innovative products around hyper ledger. So that being said and then being that I can't say no to Andrea, he wrote me into a conversation with a few of the other team members of that hackathon. And as a group we decided to kind of go global with this with this event. So we are, we just launched a few weeks ago, something called hyper ledger challenge. It is a hackathon type event that started off, like we mentioned a few weeks ago, and we'll go until the month of August so it's a competition it's not a weekend hackathon it's a long term event. We are looking for the community the hyper ledger community to bring forward innovative projects, either around business solutions, or around improvement of hyper ledger code, no matter what. It is absolutely open to everyone it is open to students it is open to business. And if you're an individual and you're looking for for support around the challenge we can certainly do that. There is information on either our LinkedIn pages or in the hyper ledger wiki. You can reach out to myself or Andrea or Arun for those who know Arun or Nancy, for those who know Nancy, and hopefully we can get your participation, and as my extra responsibility. So, in charge of the sponsorship so if you think of companies, or individuals that would like to sponsor this event by giving, you know, for cloud services, or, or education courses, or swag, or mentorship. Subject matter experts have them reach out to us we will gladly have a conversation with them. We are looking for your involvement, we are looking to make this a big event and we're looking to bring innovation to not only supply chain and trade finance, but to social impact and climate impact to all the different groups that we have a hyper ledger through this beautiful event, culminating hopefully a global forum I heard in Europe, maybe in September. So that's it about the hyper ledger challenge. Thank you very much in under two minutes. So with that. Well, if you have that. Go ahead my friend. No, no, no, I was just saying that, I think we come into an hour. So we love to thank all the attendance for this meeting and would love them to stay tuned follow us in 2022. Hopefully with the goal to go bigger and bigger and deliver more valuable contents and projects stick around and we'll see you soon for the next meetings. Beautiful. Thanks everybody. Enjoy everyone. Thank you. Have a great weekend. Take care. Take care.