 Welcome everyone. This is a meeting of the Design Subcommittee for the Jones Library Building Committee. This subcommittee meeting is being recorded and will be posted to the town of the MRS YouTube channel at a later date. Thank you for joining us. Yes, hello, welcome. So it is Friday, June 24 at 10am we usually have our meetings at nine but we have it at 10 today. This is the Design Subcommittee for the Jones Library Building Committee. And we have our agenda and this is being recorded and remote due to chapter 20 acts of 2021. We're still under that, probably at least for another month. So I'll call this meeting to order. I'm just going to check to see we have a lot of participants in here but there's Austin. So rat. I'm not saying that right. Anyways, he is not here joining us today, but I have Sharon. Are you there, Sharon. And George. Yeah, Richard's great. We hear you to great and myself so we're the Design Subcommittee members that are here today. On item two, we do have a little bit of housekeeping here. We actually have three sets of minutes. Shout out to Angela for a great job. So with Sharon and George as you get it, there's only two of you. So I need you guys to, we can work through this real quick. So, minutes of May 27. I move to approve. Second. Great. Are there any issues changes that you guys see. Nope. Okay, great. So we'll vote to approve the minutes Sharon. Yes. Right. George. Yes. And myself. Yes. That's three. Now move to June 3. I move to approve. Great. Great. Any changes or suggestions. Nope. Okay, so Sharon. Approve. Yes. Great. And myself. That's three. And the last set. June 16. Motion to approve. Mixing it up there. And I second. Great. Any changes? No. Okay, great. I think great. Sharon. Yes. George. Yes. And myself. Great. Three. Yes. Three. Thank you very much, Angela. And those will be going up and be posted. Okay. So, all right. So now we'll get down to business. I just want to say a quick thing. We have item three schematic design update. And we have Craig. You're there. Craig. Hello, everybody. Yeah. Hello. And do we have anyone from find gold Alexander. Yes. You have, I'm here, Ellen and Josephine and Steve. Good morning. Thank you for coming. So we have a bit to discuss here and the, there's two parts that we'll deal with the civil war tablets first. And then the second is some other issues that, um, with the schematic design that we're going to talk about with the designers. Then I also want to just mention the next one. Is item four, the outreach public comments. And we have a lot of them and that's going to take a lot of time. So. Um, we have a lot to do today. We want to hear from everybody. We want, you know, to do this right, but I just want everyone to be aware that we have a lot to do today. And, um, I am going to ask find gold. All three of you don't have to stay, but, um, maybe Josephine, if you could stay for that next part, that outreach comments, because I do notice a lot of them have to do with. Little things about design and you might be able to give us a little bit of advice. Um, do you have that time, Josephine? You'd think that's after the. Yeah. It's the next thing on the agenda after you do your schematic design update. Okay. Yeah. We can all stay on Christine. We have this booked for two hours. So I assume that we're going to stick to that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So we're, yeah, we, you've got three of us for that. For the two hours. I'm not sure if it was after the two hour slot that Christine was. No, no, no. I just know sometimes you guys are busy people and. You know, I think it's important. So, right. No, but it's important enough for all of us to hear. You know, the commentary. Great. And we'll try to expedite that as quickly as we can through that part. All right. So we're on item three schematic update. I'm going to turn it over to Craig and then we'll, um, I don't know if there's any update regular part and then we'll move to item one. The civil war tablets. Or a. Thank you, Christine. I'll actually, uh, in turn, hand the mic right over to, uh, final Alexander so they can dive right in. Okay. So just give it, we can give a quick update. So our schematics are ongoing. Um, we're right on schedule to have those submitted as scheduled. Okay. Okay. So. I think what most of our discussion will be on item two of this is the. The cost benefit discussion of the restrooms and exterior materials, et cetera. And we, we have a couple of plan, uh, tweaks that we have done, uh, and we'll go through those at that point as well. So I think we are, we should kick it off. I think Christine talking about the civil war tablets. Yes. And at this point, I just want to tell you, we have a lot of other people here at this meeting that are very focused on civil war tablets. We have Dave Jean Mac, who's the town, um, assistant manager, but he, um, are you there, Dave? He's like the liaison for a committee, the civil war tablets, um, committee. And, uh, I'll just, before I, um, Have Dave say something, I just want to make clear to everybody. We're not like getting into the tablets about really how great they are, how special they are, or the things that can be done with them in the future and research and all that. We're really just talking about the building here. And this is the design subcommittee. So we're looking at the schematic design and it's, it's the tablets and how they're related to the building. Is there enough space? Are they in a good place? That kind of stuff. So if I'm, if I'm nipping anybody today, it's because we're really trying to focus on just design elements and not all the wonderful and potential of these tablets. So just want to make that clear. So we've invited. So you all Ellen are going to show us where it is at right now with the schematic design. And then I'm going to let the design subcommittee ask any questions they want, which is Sharon and George, um, to clarify anything. And then I was going to open it up to this, these other people from this other committee to ask and say their concerns or provide us with any information that we may not know that is, you know, important. So Dave, um, hi, are you there? Who is here with your group? Sure. Um, so thank you. I, I, I, we all, um, respect and understand how, how full your agenda is this morning. And I think we'll be very brief. Um, we will not go into, you know, great detail on the history of the tablets, but suffice it to say that they are priceless, unique. And we were very excited to be talking with you and, and be part of the momentum of the Jones library project. Um, I'm going to really kind of turn it over. So you'd, you'd like us to say a little bit something in this slot. Christine, I know that one or two of the members of the working group would like to say something. So I'm happy to turn it over to them if this would be the appropriate time. Sure. And just to reiterate again, um, not so much about the specialness of the history of the research, more about like, how big are they, how many are they, you know, how many names, like things just general. That have to do with the building. If I could, I'll just introduce, um, joined by Ben Breger from the planning department, Jennifer Moisten from, from town staff as well. Um, and, and I guess I would turn it over to Jennifer. If you could maybe, um, uh, introduce the rest of the committee and then I'll turn it over, you know, to the committee members who would like to speak about space, uh, ideas and desires and needs. Jennifer. Good morning. And thank you for having us here. Um, I'm Jen Moisten. I'm the assistant director to DEI. And with us, we have, um, community members, Gary Tardikoff and Mrs. Carly Tardikoff. We have Debbie bridges. Um, as you guys know, when Nico Lopes is in the audience as well, and we have Dr. Milcar Shabazz as well with us from our group. And so we're really just missing. Um, I'm not sure Milcar if Deb, uh, if D is with you or not, but the only other member that would be missing would be D. And so there, the tablets are about six feet and length and maybe four feet. Why in height? Did I say that right? Sorry. Is that what you're asking for Christine? And then there's about, uh, there's six of them, I believe, right? Um, they're very heavy. They're made out of marble. So they're solid marble, um, hand carved. It's actually really, uh, interesting just because you can see the, the markings that people made or if they had made a mistake and how they tried to chisel it out. And so they're all very fantastic, but I'll keep short to that. They are, um, yes, they are made out of marble. And so we have, they are temporarily being housed at the Bings Community Center, uh, in the, um, pole room, I believe that is. Um, which is a nice space, but we feel like, and I think it's been talked about for a long time that these would find their forever home, hopefully over at the Jones library. Um, and a nice space that's going to actually fit to them. And then, you know, much can be added to that to have an entire exhibit for them. And then I guess I would open it up too much to the folks if they want to. How many names are on the tablets? Oh, I don't know. Does anybody have an idea from the group? Dr. Shabazz. 300. Wow. 300. Yeah. These were local Amherst area of people who were soldiers that fought in the civil war. Yes. And then we, we also have the individuals from the 54th and the fifth regiment, which were the two black, uh, African-American, uh, regiments from residents from Amherst, who, uh, one of, if not more than one are buried in the West cemetery. So it's all very, um, connected to Amherst. And Dr. Shabazz, you wanted to say something. Um, yeah, I guess I can say a word or two. Um, and keeping with the purpose of this meeting. Um, the, uh, uh, an ancestor of, uh, Nikolopes counselor Nikolopes, um, father of Debra Bridges here in the meeting, um, fought for many, many years to, uh, return the tablets, uh, to get them out of, out of the storage and crates they were in and back into public visibility. Counselor Nikolopes and our mother Debra Bridges took up that struggle and we now have been temporarily in the bangs community center. The issue for us is, uh, uh, to find a place of prominence in accordance with the historical importance, a place of safety, uh, from a historical preservation standpoint and from any type of vandalism or attempts at destruction or defacing and, uh, accessibility. We would not like something that's only going to be accessible for two hours a day or three hours, Monday through Friday, but something that could have as, as great accessibility to the public as possible. And, um, and so these are some of the principles that have guided our efforts to find a home. I speak for myself personally where the Vietnam Memorial on the mall, the, uh, capital in the United States, what's always loomed in my mind as for the tablets, if they could be put behind some type of protective, uh, uh, uh, uh, frame that would not harm the visibility, but that you could, but that you could have that kind of prominence and that kind of access, uh, that people could come, could see and, and, and relate to the, uh, the history that is encoded in those tablets. But of course we're not in Washington DC. This isn't the state, the U S capital. We're here in little town of Amherst, Massachusetts. I get that, but, but still the principles remain of safety, accessibility, of prominence, uh, of historic preservation. These are the values that we're looking for in the future site. Sounds great. Thank you. And, um, I think all of that is helpful to the designers. I think, um, they're aware, they've been aware of that. So, uh, I'm gonna, at this point, swing back to Ellen and her gang to, uh, which one of you wants to, we'll talk, but, um, who is going to be sharing screen? Just, you're all set for that. And, oh, I do see Jennifer, she has her hand up. Jennifer, do you want to say something more soon? Um, yeah. So Debbie Bridges is here, who is the daughter of Dudley Bridges and, and this is her family and she's having a hard time raising her hand. So I wanted to give her the opportunity to speak. She's here as a panelist. So I'm going to take questions from you all after we see what the designers are proposing, because I'm sure that's going to stimulate a whole another bunch of questions. So, and at that point, we'll make sure that everybody can speak and either provide information or ask a question if that's okay. So I think we've had a good introduction. Um, so, uh, is it Ellen or Josephine, which one of you want to show us what the current schematic design proposal is for housing and finding a permanent, safe, accessible home for these tablets? Yes. Um, I'm going to share my screen, Christine. Okay. Thank you, Josephine. Second. No problem. Can you see that? Yes, we can. Great. Okay. So this is our ground level plan. And, um, the current location of, um, the exhibit room for this four tablets is located right here. I'm not sure if everyone can see my cursor. I can also zoom in if that is better for everybody. Just let me know. I would zoom in Josephine. I think it will be. Sure. If you could speak up a little to Josephine, it may just be me, but I'm having a little trouble hearing you. Okay. Absolutely. Um, so is, can everyone else hear me? Okay. Yes. Coming through. Okay. Because I know. I am having a couple of technical difficulties this morning. So that could be one of them as well. So please let me know if you can't hear you. Great. And you always try to, um, individually, you can up the volume on your, which is what I. Yes. But if you can speak up Josephine, thank you. Sure. Um, so yes, the current location is right here for the civil war, um, exhibit room. I know we've been sort of in discussions this week about, um, the exact location for it, but this is the general location at the moment. Um, it, it will be within this, um, footprint of, um, the existing building, which is the light gray walls that you see surrounding it here. Um, and at the moment we have, um, an exhibit room and that's something that we want to talk to you folks about as far as, um, entry and security and also visibility. Um, so, uh, we do have the special collections exhibit as one adjoining room here. Um, and the, at the rare is the special collection storage, which we do not have connection to at the moment. Um, and so what you're seeing here are, um, the existing masonry walls, um, for, you know, a portion of the exhibit room and then we have two new walls as well. So, um, of course there will be further discussion on how these, um, tablets are displayed and whether they're, um, wall mounted or, um, displayed on the floor or if there's a mix. Um, but this is the general, um, location at the moment. So, um, we are open to, um, discussing more at this point or if there's any questions at the moment, um, feel free to jump in. Josephine, I, I think Ellen here, um, I think that the big question I would like to get some feedback from, uh, we have photographs of it, the current installation of the tablets and just some feedback. If folks think that's the right approach. So, um, I'll open it up to the. Design committee. Um, first, do they have any questions or want to make any comments about how this, um, design came about that Sharon and George. Yeah. No, I'd actually really love to just open the floor to the Civil War tablets working group. And I would love for them to have an opportunity to discuss everything with, with the designers. I'd love to just. I, I want them to go. I agree with Sharon. Right. Um, this is Deborah. Um, I believe, I think the proposed space looks great in my opinion. And I'm looking forward to explore how it will interpret the endless content that comes from these tablets that represent the blueprint of Amherst history. This is also an amazing opportunity for economic growth. We can leave that discussion for later. But I also believe I think the tablets would be great on the wall. Thank you. Um, so. Can somebody answer why would they not be put on the wall? And I think they're on like, um, like kind of horses, rolling horses, like how, how, how are they best, um, displayed or are there issues with fragility or something? Does anyone know that? Um, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But right now they're on. Easel, like, um, That's good. That's built. Okay. Christina, are we okay just jumping in here? Well, it's trying to raise our hands, but I don't know. You know what? So I'll ask this is, it's a good point. Thank you, Dave. So I'm going to roll to you first. Um, is. The highest, the point of contact with this. And if you want to roll it to somebody else who can answer, that's fine. Um, Are they're being designed to be on these easels like they are now is that optimal is that? And. Archivally is that how they should be stored? So. Let me get to that in a minute. I guess I wanted to. First of all, I wanted to thank the designers, the architects for, for this, this look today. I think this is, you know, some months ago we were looking at the schematics and, and they were ideas for maybe the tablets being in other locations, but I, I would echo what Dr. Shabazz said moments ago about prominence, access, um, security and, and I for one, I'm really pleased to see, um, uh, uh, uh, space allocated specifically for the tablets. I think these are should be prominent pieces within special collections, but of course within all of the collections that are available in the library. And, and so special in the Jones library. I would also note if I'm not mistaken that the door, uh, that is referenced, uh, over to the left, which I believe is the north facing new door. Is that if I'm correct? Um, uh, no, the door to the main library to the back door. Oh, that will be a prominent entrance to the library. So as people come into the library, I think it would be, uh, be afforded to, um, you know, explore and, and, uh, um, and, and get to know. So I, I'm really pleased that they, they have their own space that security could be achieved and that accessibility could also be achieved. I think I will defer to Ben and some of the other members of the working group. I honestly, I'm not a design expert. I don't think any of us are design experts. Uh, all the research I've done and all the meetings I've been a part of my understanding is that the tablets in general were designed to be displayed. You know, on vertically on a wall would probably be best. There is a sequence to them, um, with the introductory tablet going first. Um, but again, I think it, we would probably be incumbent upon us to work with a designer in the room to come up with the appropriate design within the room. If we are afforded this space and this space works, I'm not sure what the square footage of that. I may not be able to read that. Um, but, um, whatever the square footage is, we would then work with a designer, um, and, and create a, a permanent, uh, a display within the room. So I'll stop there and turn it over to other members of the working group. Thank you. Just to finish, cause this is again, what I was talking about, it's a building issue. Um, I don't know which, uh, one of the designers can answer this and Dave, it's 545 square feet. Um, these tablets are heavy. They're marble. Um, they're currently on these rolling easels. And I don't know if that's what the designers were designing for, but if you, if we went with this design are the tab, like, do the walls have to be designed differently if they were to have to support these tablets? Like if they were mounted. Absolutely. So is that something that has to sort of be decided. Now it, you know, in schematic design. No. No, I think in just being chime in here, I think we can anticipate them being very heavy. And maybe that wall becomes, uh, you know, a masonry wall with some chip on it rather than just a chip wall. So we can, we can put something in there that it's not a big lift. Christine at this point. Okay. Um, but should that be something that this committee is, um, exploring and figuring out over the next few months? Like, I know you, you know, schematic design we're trying to wrap up where in DD in the design phase would you need to know that kind of thing? Josephine. We would, I mean, the sooner, the better always for everything, right? Um, what we want to know is yes, if we're going to go the wall, we're out and hang them, then we would, um, you know, do our design a little bit differently as Ellen mentioned, but on also we might want to consider, um, someone had mentioned at the last meeting about having some visibility in there. So, um, if we're using most of the wall space, then we won't be, um, you know, removing portions of the masonry wall and adding glazing, for instance. So it's those kinds of kinds of things that we'd want to know a little bit sooner than later during DD would be great. Thank you. So Dave, is that something that you all have been discussing or do you know when that kind of decision would be, you know, because I assume part of this is an archival decision to what's best for the tablets. We have not gotten to that stage yet. I'd love to have some of the other members. I see lots of hands up. So I'd love to have some of the other members chime in. Um, the tablets way roughly 600 pounds plus or minus each. So I'm sure Ben has many of the statistics on the tablets themselves. So I think discussions of what the walls are made of and loads, and all of that is all relevant. But I think we're not quite to that stage yet. We would be happy to do more research on that. But I would love to hear from some of the other members of the working group. Okay. So I see. Oh, not a fourth hand. Just want to, I saw three. I'm going to go with, um, in the order of, uh, Gary, then Ben, then, um, Carly and, um, Professor Shabazz, I just saw his hand come up. Um, Gary, hello, are you there? I am. Can you hear me? Yes, we can. Uh, I actually am a historian of design. I taught the history of design. We call it history of art at UMass a long time ago and later taught at the University of Iowa State University. When I would just want to speak a little bit about the importance of the tablets in the design and people's experience of the building. Right now when you walk into the Jones library, one of the first pictures you see is this large picture of a British official general. It isn't Lord Jeffrey, but people sort of walk in, maybe think it's a Lord Jeffrey. And that's the name of the town in a way and name of the library. And it does put a certain kind of sense of history into the building, even if the building isn't that old. And even if that isn't Lord Jeffrey, when we walk into this building, those plaques, if they're visible, are going to be very defining in terms of the history of Amherst. And they have a great representation in the history of Amherst in American history. It's position in American history. I think it's important to remember that. So I don't think we're going to be able to put them on roller. They're on rollers right now or they're on those easels because there was no way to put them on a wall. The reason that they aren't any longer in the town hall, which is where they used to be displayed the same way people get to Amherst and they see that giant old wonderful pseudo Romanesque town hall. When they were in the town hall, they used to see those plaques that represented the history of the town in a lot of ways. I had the experience myself of being at the University of Virginia once just walking onto the campus to see what it was like. I'm walking as a historian design, but also as a tourist walking. And he ran into almost immediately the history of the people lost in the civil war. And it certainly functioned the South's version of the civil war. We were looking at the rebels as the people being remembered by the University of Virginia. I was shocked seeing that kind of thing. And since then we've seen some of those old images of civil war rebels come down. I don't think these Amherst citizens who died in the war are going to be less important for us than those were for those people who put those up. It's an important statement of who we are. These men died for us and they included a variety of the town's members, including a black as well as white people who fought in the war. So it's an important set of images of them up on the wall are going to say a lot of things to us about who we are and others about who we are. And so I don't think, you know, they're not just decoration. They really are very important symbols of who we're going to be. And by putting them in an entrance room where, you know, where you see it as you come in and, and putting some stuff around to indicate what they stand for and who they are, we're going to be saying a lot of things about ourselves that are quite important. And that that's all I wanted to offer at this point. Okay. Thank you. Ben. Are you there? Yeah. Hi everyone. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to chime in a little bit about the discussion. Wall mounted versus easels on the ground. I think I've. Again, we haven't discussed this in the working group quite yet, but my, my. Inclination is that these should be wall mounted. I think of them as, you know, their museum quality artifacts. And, you know, I think, and Miss Bridges can probably speak to this better than I have for experience managing the current exhibit, but these really shouldn't be touched by people. They're marbles of very porous stone and oils and any sort of moisture will, you know, cause blemishes over time. So for that reason, and just because, you know, if they're on the ground, they become a tripping hazard, you know, there might be kids running around. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I think we just want to be careful and put these on the wall, maybe even put like a little kind of like rope around them. So people aren't getting within a few feet of them even. So I think that that's always been my kind of goal. I guess it is, is thinking about the design. Of the space like that. I mean, all that is to say, I think it's seeing them on the easels right now. I think it's really interesting to see the backside of the tablets because there's kind of some interesting markings on the back and you really get to see the texture of the stone, which is really interesting. You know, this is marble that was probably hand chiseled in the 18, you know, late 1800s. It's really cool to see. But I think for the longevity and the sustainability of the tablets, getting them on the wall would be the ideal. And yeah, just to reiterate, we haven't actually weighed them. We haven't really had a way to do that. But based on their, you know, cubic footed foot size or whatever, we've then found a unit rate unit weight for marble. And we think they're, you know, probably around 800 pounds each, but so they're, they're very big and very heavy. We had a company move them that specialized in countertop moving. So they had this very specialized equipment. So that would be one thing I wanted to mention. The other thing I wanted to mention was picking up on what Mr. Tartakov just mentioned. I think being very intentional about how you design this entry sequence, you know, I think on the outside of the Civil War tablet exhibit space, there should be some something. It could be even the dedication plaque could even be on the outside of the room, something that draws people into the space. Because otherwise, if it's just a, you know, opaque door that you might not know to go in there, that what incredible artifacts lie within there. So just thinking about what could be on the outside of that room as people enter to draw them in. It'll be really the first thing they see. So it would be interesting to see what that design and sequence or the entry sequence looks like. And again, yeah, folks are looking for more information about the dimensions or weight or anything more about the history of the tablets. They've been pretty well documented over the years. And I have a file with a lot of information on them. So happy to share. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Ben. Carly, are you there? Yes. Welcome. I only have one. One question. The tablets were hung. In the, in the town hall at one time. Is that correct? Yes. And was the problem. The weight. Of the tablets. So my understanding is that they were not actually hung in town hall. They actually. They were resting on the floor. In the, in the, what was the old police station in the basement of town hall. Carly, I could, I could add one thing to that. They were actually in some of the landings on the stairwell and about 20 some odd years ago. You know, town hall was renovated. But what was also determined as we looked at putting the, we did look very hard very closely at putting the tablets back in town hall. And one of the things we struggled with was one was the weight. And, and the loading. And the second thing, which really was. Was the end of that idea was accessibility that we couldn't. The, putting them on the landings would no longer serve one of our goals, but it would also. It's not really legal to put. To put exhibits of any kind where some people can't reach them. So the landings in the stairwell are not fully accessible to all. So that's why town hall was really taken off the. The list of possibilities. And I don't remember, I grew up in Amherst. I remember the old police station. They were, they might have been there when I was a child. I don't remember our current police chief Scott Livingstone does remember when the tablets were there and they were, they were not well cared for in the police station at that time. So anyway, those are just my. Thank you. All helpful. Carly, is there anything else? Oh, my other questions, I think were answered. Great. Thank you. Professor Shabazz. Yes. So I have some contextual questions and then some other in another area, but can someone share and sharey perhaps or someone guide me as to where in the footprint of the current Jones library or are we really talking about? I can't tell from this map whether where, where we are. Sure. Yes. So right. The existing 1928 walls. That's, that's this thicker gray line. Oh, here I am highlighting it and it's not my screen. I'm sorry. Yes. Josephine is highlighting it. So those are the original 1928 walls. And this is on the ground floor. So this is a right now. What is that right now? Is that towards the ESL department right now? Yeah, that's roughly the ESL department and like the, the career center area at the back of the building. So if you were in the basement of the building and looking out the window facing the garden, that's roughly that space. And you can actually see the, where the existing windows are along that wall. I think that's where the, the window is adjacent to the hallway. Thank you. That's very helpful for me to, to visualize. The other thing being 545 square feet. How does that compare maybe as a ZMAC knows. To the whole room we're in at the banks about what's, what's the comparison in the square footage? on that or or or someone else I'm not exactly sure off the top of my head the square footage. George has a stand up to. Yeah, when I went to the pool room to measure the tablets themselves. I measured the general space that the tablets were holding with enough space for accessibility around them. And that's where I came up with the 545 square feet so it's not the, it's not the size of the pool room itself. Because the tablets only take up a portion of it. So I measured the existing tablet display with them on the easels and plenty of accessibility space around them and that's where we came up with that figure. So it's so fairly comparable to the space it's taking up in the pool room now. Yes, yes. Again, that's, that's also very helpful in and the sense of the hours relative to it being in this location. Are we talking about when the hours of the main library are we talking about accessibility, even, you know, like if there are events in the evening, and maybe there's a particular library space is not open. Is there some sense of how in this location, what the, what the hours of the day, we'd be talking about. Dr. Shabas thank you for asking yes. So one of the, the, the beautiful aspects of the location here is as Dave said, it's the first thing people are going to see, but also this is our after hours floor in essence. So, so not only will these exhibit spaces both the Civil War tablets exhibits and the special collections exhibit spaces be open during all hours that the library is open, but it, they are both available to the community after hours and so there will be, you know, a reservation process but if like if your working group wanted to have a community event after hours on a Sunday or whatever, you could absolutely do that because these spaces will be blocked off from the rest of the library. Thank you. That's very important to know that the other thing that I would weigh in to say is, I think in against somewhere on the walls is more desirable that long black line that separates the special collections exhibit area from the Civil War tablet exhibit area. What are we talking about there 14 feet, 12 feet. Josephine can get us that number. The reason being is, then, if you're, I would imagine we'd be looking at along that wall for a lot of the main tablets, maybe then cutting around toward what looks to me as sort of the bottom of that floor from the perspective I'm looking at, and then perhaps even hooking down there back to back around to the entrance door, and I hope at some point as things would move into a more specific phase that you could bring us back in. All the images and and working with staff at the Jones Library special collections have added elements even beyond the, the tablets themselves that lend to the interpretation some of these items are from the special collections, holdings, some are from outside but they add to it so it wouldn't just be a matter of then sticking them against the wall or on a wall, but also to think about it from the, from the visitor experience music, music, music, biology, basically 101, you know, to think about how their space remaining for some of these interpretive pieces that that that helped to, to bring the whole, the whole experience together of the tablet so I would hope with with Dr Tartikov there with the doctors Tartikov, as well as with different bridges and, and myself is a time for perhaps another look in a more detailed way against that the other thing is the a frame kind of situation we have right now, besides what been already laid out relative to safety and, and what that was always conceived as more of a temporary opportunity to just, first of all for us to see what, what they look like but then to open it up to visits, but, but definitely for, for reasons been mentioned and, and, and, and even others that come to mind that is not an ideal, an ideal way of presenting it over the long, long term. Thank you. You know what I, what I'm envisioning this. I agree with you 150%. I think there's a really exciting opportunity here for ongoing consistent, consistently changing exhibits there's an opportunity. If all of the tablets are placed on the walls, then the center could be reserved for, you know, there could be a bench there could be seating, there could be pedestals there could be a display boards for more for more materials that that explain the history behind the tablets. So there's a lot of options. Thank you. This is really helpful. What I'm realizing is everything that I've been hearing or thinking was sort of keeping it static that they were on these easels but now as we're talking, I'm hearing wall wall wall for many, many reasons. Josephine, have you been able to get the dimensions of that those walls the length and the width of those walls because doing a rough calculation and my belief is there's six tablets but one is smaller but just assuming the six of the same. There's, if they're, I heard six. It's 37 feet of tablet. 37 feet of linear feet. That's what I got to. Yeah, without space between correct that's just tablet. Yeah. And one thing I wanted to bring up and Josephine, we'll get that number is that somebody should be curating this right and in we are happy to accommodate anything because it sounds like these are so important to the town. We really should have somebody curating the show and that's not our expertise, but we're here to help and we can provide the walls to to to hang these things for sure, but someone needs to really guide the group I think. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, I want Steve I see your hand out. I just wanted to chime in about the lengths of those walls so that while you're seeing running north south on the plan is just over 30 feet long and the wall that runs east west. That then aligns with the existing exterior wall is another 17 feet and some change so you've got 47 feet of in this configuration you've got some good length there. I don't know if this matters or not and I really want to hear from Jen moist and you had your hand up and Dr Shabazz again. So in my mind as we move into design development I was actually thinking that the special collections exhibit space and the Civil War tablets exhibit space would be rotated 90 degrees so that they're so that both entrances would be on that main hallway. So if that matters for the space I'm not talking about reducing or enlarging those the square footage I'm just. I envision a flipping a little bit. Anyways, thank you. Is there only one door in and out of this room. Currently that's what we're showing that's something that I can't hear you just me. You know currently what we're showing, but that's something that we want to discuss with you also just generally. You know if we probably would want to look at what we're doing with the entry door, if it's going to be glass a large door. As someone had mentioned you know just the sequencing of getting into the space and which other adjoining rooms will have access to it, if any, but currently there is only one. If it's a single door, obviously you can see they're not a double door at the moment, but in one of our challenges just been just to chime in is, there's a historic structures report on this building. And there's, I, in my mind I would love to open that door up to be wider and more glass. But one of our challenges is to keep the historic fabric intact. So it's really a balance and, and as we go through the design and get some feedback from a curator, I think we could work with the group on that. Okay, good to know. Thank you. I see three hands. I'll call on Professor Shabazz first and then I see Dave and Jennifer. The, the other thing I wanted to lend support to is the idea that that Ben mentioned that perhaps that small sort of introductory tablet could be displayed maybe right somewhere near the front entrance and guiding people to to or letting people talk about the exhibit or it just isn't a, it's an interesting idea to me I don't think that the, all that that particular piece has to be in, in the same area with the other tablets an interesting idea to play with if there's something, if there's some important area other area to post it. Thank you. Thanks, Dave. I don't speak but I know Jennifer has had her hand up for quite some time so if, if you could take Jennifer first I would follow Jennifer. Thank you. Jennifer on mute. Oops, sorry. There's two ways to mute here on on my system. Sorry. So we have been talking about a curator and I believe that William Harris will will help to curate the tablet. I can talk more about that as well. And that opens up a lovely opportunities for many many more things to come into that exhibit space for the tablets as well. Great. Thanks, Dave. Sure. Just to build on that a little bit and our group has not gotten together for a while and and this is a great opportunity where we're I'm sure where we have lots of ideas coming out of this meeting so we'll meet again soon. But I think, going back to what Ellen or or someone else on the call said. In my mind and for somebody correct me if I'm wrong, you know, again, we are very thankful and very excited to collaborate with this project with you all on this project. But in my mind, there is kind of a distinction here between the space that is being offered to us and talked about today and we'll, you know, we'll work with you on on how this, you know, some of the input from this, but it seems to me that the design of of and how we get the tablets there and how they are displayed is really on on our group to to to figure out and design so we are appreciative that you are thinking of the structural and and the architecture of this of this new library, but I think it then becomes incumbent upon our group to work with a curator slash designer to figure out how the tablets get a fix to the wall, and and where, you know, as Dr. Shabazz, where, where, you know, where does the introductory of the other associated exhibit so I guess I just wanted to make that distinction and if if if I'm if I'm on with that is that how we're thinking of this so you need to know structurally. What do these walls need to bear how much load do they need to bear, and how the rooms are configured and then it's on us really to come up with the design within the space we're going to fit out the space. And so our group is going to work with a curator and and or a designer to figure out how do we put these things on these load bearing walls and where do they go and all of that great stuff. So, and we may need to raise a little money to do that and and I have talked about in years past, potentially approaching the CPA committee if we need more money and maybe there are other fundraising opportunities or or grants out there to raise more money if we need that just putting that out there that we I think we understand that. In the place, just to suggest in the place I would start with thinking about these of what walls to hang them on are the new walls so the walls in black. Because to hang them on the exterior walls, I think that will be something that may be an issue. So if we can keep it on the new walls, we can accommodate those my guess is we're going to need, because that's pretty heavy it will probably have to add a footing as well to support the bearing walls but it's all things we can do. It's not a big issue. But something that needs to be dealt with and thought about. Now, given the dimensions that the 30 and the 17 and looking at the schematic the drawing there, you know it's really only about 40 feet of new wall, which is enough, but not I mean it's tight and again you need six foot lengths to, you know, can to fit on that bottom wall or whatever. This all has to be figured out but I think the designers. I think there needs to be an assumption that you're going to have to beef out these interior black walls. What else do you need to know to move forward for schematic design. Josephine. That will probably cover us for the moment. I suppose if we know of any other points of entry that you might want extra doors or any kind of, you know, any special treatments that we would be adding to our documents, such as any glazing or things like that. Those are the only other items probably that would be great to have but again we can add that during DD if we just don't know about that yet. And Josephine our schematic design drawings are going out to the cost estimator what's the date next week correct. Yes. I mean anything we can add, certainly will, you know, start putting it into the DD portion but the sooner the better, even for that because some some of the items might require you know certain level of detail that we would like to get into the DD set so anything basic that we know now that would add cost would be great. But again, you know, as the sooner the better during DD for any more information. Right. And just to put like a, you know, a timeframe on that. We're looking to finish DD when end of September mid September. I think we are actually in the November range for. Okay, all right. Yeah. So we have some time but we need to, you know, we would encourage the group to get, you know, to get someone in here to curate the show. I'm thinking they go on the walls but maybe they don't. Maybe you have them on some structure in the middle of the room, but you know that I don't know if that's the best way to, if you have enough room to view them properly so there's really a lot that goes into this. We're here to help. Okay, I see. Thank you. Gary and then Jennifer. Gary. My question is address partly to the person whose screen we're looking at. If we could step back a bit from the plan it cuts off. We're looking at the rear entrance. Where's the front entrance to the building. The upper level on level one. So we're at the higher level. Yes. And so this would be, that's the entrance. It's the bad. Well, it's the back entrance is there now and the service entrance is more or less the same place as now. Is it correct. The service entry is at the same as is at the same point. Yes. Okay, so these are not on the same level that most people would walk in on from the front stairs, maybe coming down the stairs from the front, or coming in the back entrance to the library to see these. Right. This is the rare entry here. And then this is the main stair that brings you to level one. So they would be coming off of this elevator or the stair. That's what I wanted to say. Yeah, thank you. Okay, thank you. Jennifer. Hi, thank you I have to hop off because I have an 11 o'clock zoom. I just wanted to come back to reiterate and I think that what the Civil War tablets group probably needs to do at this point is to have a conversation with Mr. William Harris, who would be the curator. And then come back to the design table or work with the design folks to do that to figure out what the next steps would be. I think that William Harris himself has enough resources and connections where he can really help us to expand this exhibit space. And so as long as we have time. I, and again I'm not 100% sure how I feel about on the wall or not because I also really enjoy the fact that you can see that the backside of the tablets when the way that they are right now is similar to what Ben was stating. So I just think that the group itself has some like Dr. Shabazz, Mrs. Dr. Shabazz, both the Dr. Tartikovs and Anika and Ben and Debbie and we should all and Dave should get together and have a conversation first. Or because I think there have been changes made that I don't know that everybody was aware of ahead of time so we would just need to sit down and chat. Thank you Jennifer and thank you for coming if you're leaving thank you for your input. So, just to finish up for today what if I don't see any other hands, if I think. Like the tablet committee they have some work they need to do and to decide and get some information on and get back to the designers. At this point, I think the designers. I think we have a space that everyone's pretty good with. I understand that the grade line is the old foundation stone of the old building so it's sensitive to how much you can knock that out and take it out. I have a single door might be nice to have a double door more glass, or a second door, but I know code probably impacts that so is there anything else before we move on that you need to know for a schematic design. Ellen or Josephine or Craig. Go ahead, Josephine. I just noted I think we're okay. I think we're good with the information we have. Craig. I would suggest for process wise this may be something that is helpful to the Civil War tablets committee. I think Sharon earlier mentioned, you know the potential to say rotate these two rooms so that they're both accessible from that main corridor. Perhaps, if the design team is able to block that out, and then share that with say you or Sharon to then transmit that information to the Civil War tablets committee that might help them in their initial discussions of how they want the space to function how they want to display these things within that room, and maybe some demand your overall dimensions like this is, you know, 17 feet this is 30 feet, why not. Sounds good. Yeah. So just to make note for everyone that the next room things got flipped a lot but the room to the right is the special collections exhibit, you know, tiny bit bigger but essentially the same space. When I looked at this I thought, Oh, wouldn't it be nice if that was a, you know, a wall that could be moved, you know, panels or extra doors in it. You know, so it could be a larger space or you could, you know, have flow between the two rooms if it was a special event or related exhibits but now that we're talking about potentially putting these on the wall that could really change that so I just look forward to some final answers so that we can, you know, in the DD phase get this to fulfill as many functions and needs as possible so I don't see any other hands on this I think we're done for the day unless anyone else has a comment I don't see anything I want to thank everybody for coming. You know, it's, it's hard to, you know, designing. We have experts here but it takes special thinking and forecasting the future so we're working on it and thank you. Christine can I just thank everybody. We want to thank the whole committee, you know the working group for coming but also all of you for for spending so much time with us. And I do like the idea that if, if these rooms are flipped if that information could come to us. And I think in my mind that the main issue for for the team the architectural team is is the load bearing nature of the new walls, you know, in these two tablets, because it seems to me that hedging our bets, it is likely these tablets would best be on on those long walls and, and having those be structurally sound enough to bear the weight of these tablets makes makes makes sense and I think we've heard that from the working group but we look forward to more information and more sharing throughout the summer and early fall and we will come back to you if we have any additional information but we really appreciate your time. Thank you. You know this was this was really helpful I think. So at this point, we're going to move on to the second schematic update with the designers cost benefit discussion, the restrooms exterior materials the elevator. So whoever wants to talk about that. I guess right into stay on the plans. And I guess, should we sort of talk through some of the plan adjustments or just jump into the elevator, however you guys would like for us to move forward. We figured we'd talk through the plans a little bit first do that whatever is best for you all we're listening. So just to quickly touch base on the changes that we've made since we met last, which I think we covered most of the changes with all with all of you. But, of course, we just, you know, have this discussion on the Civil War tablets but in in the shift of the elevator of, you know, removing the existing elevator as we talked about Tuesday night. We did gain space on every level so we'll just go through that here on every floor and show you on the ground level, removing the existing elevator and the machine room in this location here we were able to gain a little bit square footage back so we sort of grew the special collection storage here a little bit so we got a little bit of space back, since we lost a little bit of plan north for the Civil War room. So, this is a plus in our minds, we know that special collection space is important, and we don't want to lose too much from there so that's the biggest change at the ground level. So if we, does anyone have questions before we move to level one. So, moving up to level one. I think we covered probably most of the changes that have happened here so I'm just going to dive into the, again the location of the existing elevator with the removal of that here we gained more space in the material return room, which is beneficial because the space is an existing look. So, gaining any extra space here is great. The only other changes that I'm not sure if the whole group saw or the offices that we shifted plan north. So we sort of took the east side of the new addition and created these spaces here for the borough service, head of collections and then we created a quiet study. This allows for, I think, adjacencies and a little extra space where this was just open seating previously. And I think that's the biggest changes for level one so I'll move up to level two if no one has any questions. So you'll see here again, this carving out of blue space up here and then in the new addition, we did the same thing on both levels, and we placed the head of information services head of programming and branch, all in this space here so that they will be closed offices but with glazing so a lot of visibility and we think this will again work well for the adjacencies that were requested. And again, going back down the plan south to the elevator space, the existing elevator was in the reading room area here. So again, we just gained more swear footage back for that space which is great. The other change which I'm not sure if we had shown previously was that we did include a ramp on this level per Austin's comments. We currently have, excuse me, we currently have it located right next to the steps that go to the, you know, adult collections here. The new addition wing. And we just have a straight ramp that's going. That's going up to meet the 18 inch difference. Any questions on this level. I have I have a question Josephine and I was chatting with some people about the ramp. Yay. But so, could we just get rid of those stairs and just have all ramp that way everybody uses the same path. You don't have to answer it now it's just kind of you know in universal design instead of retrofitting in theory with with that up ramp. Don't we just have one big ramp get rid of the stairs. I think that's something we can talk about further. Don't think I've done something like that previously but something we can definitely look at it would have to be wider. As you mentioned. But yeah something we can, we can look at. I love your reaction. It's obviously a long stretch, but I, yeah, I, I think it was that ramp. 18 feet. 18 approximately. That's so if you doubled it, you know, and I mean it's the size of a room, like all slam. Yeah, yeah, the reason it looks small is because the footprint of this building is pretty large. Right. So it looks kind of small but, but it definitely, you know we have about an eight I want to say 18 inch plus or minus difference in slab elevations from the corridor to be to then to the addition. So telling people it's 18 inches that goes down over 18 feet. Correct. I see your hands up. Yes, I think that's a cool idea and definitely something worth looking into right off the top of my head I do know that once you get past a certain width of ramp then you need to have intermediate railings, but still something that could be looked into and you know maybe it's not just a rant maybe it's a ramp with stuff happening on the sides and so it's kind of a space in and of itself. Perhaps not for SD maybe that's something that gets developed more indeedy. Code wise we don't need the ramp that was a request from somebody on in the committee. But we yeah we can look at this more indeedy that's not a problem. And Austin's not here today. I'm sure he has some thoughts on this so yeah maybe that can come up again at a later meeting. Okay. There's no other questions I can. I know I see no hands. So moving up to the top level is the biggest change for the elevator of course as we talked about Tuesday night. This is the new elevator going up to this top floor now. And with the removal of the existing elevator that was here. We do gain more space back for the staff break room we are still playing around with this floor plan on this level but at the moment this is what we're carrying for SDs. You know the the the biggest thing really here is this connection point to the elevator and having this you know be accessible for everyone. We did show on Tuesday night that exterior rendering of what you know this will look like from a distance it's really it's as minimal as it can be we did tuck it back as much as we could. So, this is where we are at the moment for this level. So some of the things that we talked about at the the full building committee meeting was you know what do you put on all of those walls and our, our head of Special Collections mentioned you know we have, we have a pretty large fine arts collection so we've got stuff to put on these other things so we have the Whipple window. So it's now it's like this half moon it's this beautiful window that came from the Whipple house. And it's got to go somewhere. So I didn't know if there was a space up there or if it belongs in Special Collections I don't know but we have things or the staff are also very happy that the bathrooms are not now opening on to, you know where people will be eating Yeah. So that is a very long corridor. When you exit or from the elevator, the new elevator. I know Austin had some concerns about this I believe 18 feet or something was said and then another, at least 13 heading off to the West. There's only windows. I mean I know Sharon just brought up that pretty one but it's a long dark corridor, you know and even putting pictures on it. Are there any places that you can put windows. We are showing glazing right now on these walls. Okay, that's what I want that's what I so the, I could see the one on the inner wall, but there's also ones on the. Oh, now I can see thank you. Yes, that's helpful. I think that so it's more you're walking through like a, like a glass bridge. Yeah. Okay, that's, and then we still have kind of the wonky double staircases coming into that 400 square foot face I think at the last meeting someone maybe Steve was saying how you're going to look at the stairs and see if you could do anything. Did that happen. So really what it comes down to is, you know, we have to keep this rating on the stair. So, we certainly can look at other options of maybe where the stair drops you, but it will. It will, you know, jog that that rating that wall rating that we need makes it a little bit more complicated can be done, but maybe we'll try something we'll have to look at in DD I'm thinking. Yeah, we I think Christine we just didn't have time to look at it. We met in house to talk about it. The most cost effective way is the way we have it now because we're stacking the rating right, but we can we talked in house that we'll take a quick look at it. And to see if we could do something that it makes it a little nicer and maybe it that we do at this location we don't stack and we can come up with a better setup but we'll look at that and design development. Okay, thank you. So, did you get any cost information I know you can't work going to have a big cost estimate done but just like more expensive least expensive for any of those exterior materials. Elevator we seemed so is that the decision we're taking the elevator on or is this still a decision that has to be made by the committee. We made the decision so we need you guys to make that decision. And I say that joking, but I, but I think the important thing here in just being you can chime in is that we believe it's the best thing for the library because that existing elevator is accessible, it needs to be upgraded and then it just is a maintenance thing over time in our mission and libraries is not to create maintenance issues right, and we can achieve accessibility everywhere with this new elevator. Yeah, we really needed it needed to go for so many reasons. Thank you. So that's the cost benefit that take the old elevator out. Yeah, we're pretty solid on that one. Then you had brought us some different restroom options. And with the gender inclusivity going to the individual individual. So we're going to get the toilet rooms is more pricey. I don't know if, you know, because we're going to have to make a decision on that so cost will have an impact in our decision. And then the exterior materials I mean everybody loves the brick and the slate. We all love that look but we're really trying hard to look at other options or reasons why to try to save money so we can stay under budget. And I think for the restrooms, sort of where we landed was that, yes, it does cost more for that heavy option three. And if we want if you folks would like to see pricing on that. I think we sort of talked about maybe having pulling out that option and putting it as part of maybe our SD package and then we can sort of get a cost of what would that be. We could almost break it down as like, what does it really cost for additional for each stall, because it's closed off stalls right in option three. So our estimator probably can give us a number for what like each stall might cost and then we could go about it that way, or in total, I mean, there's a couple different options we can do but we can sort of pull it as an alternate if you will, and get that with the SD SD members that we get in. Yeah, I think that will be needed for the committee as a whole when they make this decision. The hybrid one to, you know, that doesn't have the doors to the top, you know, that one where it's sort of open on the top and just a tiny bit open and the sides come all the way down that one. I think it has less HVAC requirements. If the sides are full floor to ceiling and the tops. Are they full. Yeah, I don't know if they're the sides are top to bottom or just slightly down on the top to allow still for air circulation. I don't know what the code required, you know, I just know that there'll be a cost difference if you don't have them as individual rooms. Right and that when they are individual rooms, we can check with our sprinkler engineer, we may need a sprinkler head and each one of them. Right. So there's additions and I, you know, we talked about this in house. It's not a huge. It's not huge, but it does add, you know, all these little bits add up. But one thing though I, you know, I talked to two people in the construction industry yesterday. And there is a slight softening in the market. In terms of costs of like the cost of wood has come down the cost of steel has come down the cost of copper. So we might be trending in the right direction for us. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Yeah, we are to I'll go with your magic eight ball and sounds good. All right, so that and then the exterior materials I know that is, is that something that has to be decided firmly by the committee before the end of schematic design, or do we have some leeway on that too. So, I think what we could do here is we've got some numbers. So maybe we just run through those right. And I suppose, Ellen, you can chime in here but maybe we do the same thing with materials for SDs, you know, that we have a base, but if we need to get an alternate number. So shame is, most likely we'll just, you know, be able to look at the whole as a whole. Sure, at it with a different material and probably just, you know, give us a rough number. I'm sure he will. It's easy to do just being at this stage right. Yeah. So just to go back to sort of the presentation we had a few weeks back on materials. Yeah, we have your existing conditions here, just as a reminder in case you need that but I'm sure you don't. Beautiful stone. No, it's a good thing for everyone to remember that that is the front of the building and part of the west side and the east side. This all stays the same. Exactly. So let's go back to that rare rendering that we were looking at where we have, you know, a brick over a stone, a stone material. And this, you know, I think was probably the option that a lot of people were most comfortable with, but just to like dive right into numbers. We did ask Sheamus our cost estimator to give us square foot costs for the several materials that we looked at. And, you know, brick of course is the overall winner for being the lowest cost at 40 to $42 per square foot. And, you know, you can play a lot of games with brick. So it's definitely a very nice material that we can use for, you know, a good portion of the of the building. The next one that we looked at which we don't believe we have shown this the last presentation, but we had Sheamus price out errors craft. And that's at $50 per foot. So it's a pretty good cost for, you know, just a little bit higher than brick. Ellen, I don't know if you want to talk a little bit about our script. I know. No, I think it's a nice prod product and we like it because it you know it has texture it comes in variety colors. And it can work well with brick. And we've used it before it's a tried and true product. And it's, it's in laid up, meaning it's installed installed very similar to brick. And then we jump to the slate skull things that we looked at at the last rotation. So it's a little bit higher here on 2130. We have the same comment. We were shocked that this came out so high in, you know, because just, just being I worked on Tufts granted years ago but we used it because of it was affordable so I don't know what happened, but it's really expensive. I wonder why I liked it. Yeah. You know, the errors craft is probably now I get why you were talking about number two option. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, to dive into the metal panel. We're looking at a reasonable price of me five to 80 but with metal panel there's a lot of different options we showed something that looked more like wood siding almost at the last presentation but we just want to show you that there's a lot of to go with when we look at metal panel. It's, it's not just, you know, typical you know, been siding it can really go many different directions so we just wanted to show a couple of different examples that I think when we noted maybe that the elevator would be clad in metal I think some people might have. I think some people are thinking, potentially that it might look a little bit differently but it can sort of goes away sometimes depending on the colors you choose and, and the patterns and etc. And we have a few, you know, locations on the building that, no matter what you go with for the base and the top we have some locations that we probably will be using like metal panel for, for instance, like at the elevator and maybe at the, at the, the sawtooth roofs, potentially at some of the pop outs that we have on the, the rear of the building. So, this is just something to think about. Because it's a metal roof also. Correct. We have the standing C metal and a benefit to say of the metal panels there that you're showing is they do have high insulation in them. Right. More than a deposit panel. So it's built in, right. Wow. I'm surprised that's so high too. And this is for the material and insulate installation. These were material costs just material. And tell us if, like, are some, you know, just easier or more difficult, which would be the least labor intensive and which ones are like more specialist. Well, I mean, Masonry is never. It's simple to a Mason I suppose but it's it's labor intensive. Yeah. You know, the same way right on as brick. Yes, just. Yeah. Yeah. And it's the same width. So it's it's an easier and it's, you know, and the whole who installed the Mason I assume installs Eris craft. So it's one trade. And you know the, the, it's just been saying we can go in, we can have on the drawings requesting alternate pricing. I think that's the best way so we don't need you guys to decide today which one we probably want to decide a combo right so do we do Eris craft with brick above. Do we do just a different color brick on the base and a different color brick above so you try to you almost get the colors division like you got with the sculptings. Yeah, I don't know why. So, so it's funny, up until now, I thought you, you all said the brick was the most expensive option. And then the sculpting was medium and the, and the metal was the least expensive. Anyways, so with these new prices, why wouldn't we just go all brick lots, you know, different colors whatever but why not break. It's not, it's not, it's, we can, but I think we should get the pricing because it's just going to be too, it could be too much brick Sharon. Okay. But I know we're looking, we're going to be looking to save a lot of money. And so if this is a way to do it. There's necessarily a lot of money when I'm trying to get the designers to. So we're not deciding anything here today, we almost try to prepping this up for what you can bring to the committee as a whole to help make the best decision the easiest way. They're saying the material of the brick is the cheapest, but it is very labor intensive so even we're looking at metal panels here that are more twice as, you know, expensive. That slapped up real fast and easy so you save money on the labor. So what I want them to come back is to beat this out a little bit more and when they give us these different rendering options to look at truly which one is the more, you know, more expensive or kind of in the same because the truth is metal and brick could end up about the same is it am I right. Yeah, you know what, we're so close to getting cost estimates. I would rather not commit to any cost. I mean we did get these from the cost estimator but we, I think the proof will be in the pudding, and we'll know where we are. Let me clarify, I wasn't asking, because I get it. I'm not asking for exact costs. I'm so when you bring the renderings, you are able to say this is the most expensive way of doing it. At least these are about the same. I think that will help the committee be able to figure out what will be best for the building. Right, and we will do that after we get the cost estimates correct. So that means we do not have to make a decision on exterior materials until after SD and when we're in DD. Yeah, right when you when we go ahead when we start let me just say this when we start DD we need to know, but we're going to provide you with the information before then to make the decision. So that's like July, August. Okay. I see. Oh yes we have Craig here he's so quiet help us see he raises his hand we just jump in. I'm sorry we just we just cut each other off I'm sorry. Josephine did you. Well, I guess what I was going to say was yes we start DD's end of July. But what we would want I think is a base for our SDs. So what we do is we say we are calling out this material over this material for SDs and then we have an alternate that we pull aside. We have a base number that we're working off of and then we have an alternate. So what we would want from you right now is just what do you want as that base, and then those numbers will clearly identify because he's going to give us more than just a material cost in his cost estimate. So we're going to get something a little bit more detailed from him and then you'll actually see what that base really is going to cost. And then you'll see what a little bit more info on what that alternates to, and I think that will probably sway you folks either way, and then we can look at, you know, potential renderings. So Ms architect, I just want to clarify what is base, because that's where we. Oh, you mean the bottom of the building or just. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Yeah. So base basically means what you want to go with for the materials as, as your cost estimate, it's option, option one right it's it's it's not not vertically base but more so like what you want to go with for materials. So good. Thanks. Good. Yeah. So procedurally 100% with what Josephine just said. In that base concept I would recommend be the one that the design subcommittee likes the best. And then I don't think we want to make the cost estimate is crazy with many, many alternates, but maybe have one alternate that we suspect will be maybe like a backup plan. It's also something that you guys like but it's not necessarily your preferred option. Can I make a suggestion of what the base could be. Yes, I would suggest the base be the base bid be the error errors craft at the bottom and can you point to that's whoever has brought this up is the errors craft at the bottom and then brick above it. It's be brick, the whole thing brick, but different color at the bottom. You've already brought us some of those renderings and options, but I think you we need to have one done that you just suggested Alan and have that so that yeah, look at that. Yes, but I think what we want to do, Christine is get pricing. Yeah. And so we're looking for you guys. If you agree with that. And Craig you chime in what Craig what's from your professional opinion what is the base best base bid approach. I would say if the design subcommittee is comfortable with what you just suggested where you've got a different texture for the, the bottom level of the building, and there you know this different color options with you know the brick above everyone based on the public comments at least it seemed like everyone was universally opposed to the metal panel concept. So maybe push that aside and say just what Alan said. I think that's craft and brick I think that would be a nice and more dynamic configuration. Put that as sort of option number or you know base bed, and then, like Alan said, go to all brick different colors, you know there's still opportunity for variation and design, but that would be our, I suspect a deduct alternate. I want to ask you guys so. So I am not an architect I don't play one on TV, nor do I really care. This isn't my this I don't. I don't I don't care. And when I'm looking at the big picture about all of these things that I know we're going to have to make tough decisions about covert or not. This is a wonderful place to save a lot of money and so I guess my question is, why wouldn't we do the base as all brick and the alternate as the heiress craft and and brick on top. What, what, what does it matter. I think from an architectural point of view, the heiress craft is the better product, and it's a better design, but in the end, it's not my choice it's our recommendation. And it's up to you and I we know the money thing Sharon we totally get that. But having the brick alternate we will have that number and to make that switch for us from heiress craft brick isn't is simple. It's not a big deal. My, my question is, what's the difference between what why does it matter if we choose one as the base and one is the alternate. It is there a pro or a con. I would say that it's only the message that is coming across, I would recommend you put into the base what you guys prefer from a design standpoint, right. Because so the message to whom. You know general public the cost as mirrors everybody just it's what you're saying is, you know, six of one half dozen over and you're correct. But if we are saying so this is just, this is crazy but how much of this is politics so if we are saying, oh, we really want the heiress craft. Does that mean, is that admitting to them that that we want that and so does that boost the price or no that's the cost estimator is on our side. Yeah, okay, it's not out for bid. He's going to analyze it based on his professional knowledge of the current construction market. Great. Okay. Yeah, so it's not going to affect anything that I don't care. So what to bring to the building committee. Maybe one with brick on top, and then one all brick. And Sharon, I was on clear were you saying brick on bottom, and no what what what Ellen is is recommending the brick on top and the heiress craft on the bottom. Yeah, I think we just need to see a couple renderings because then we put it back into the architects. It's about color and I think people really the visual is really important when they're making a decision. And where cost wise, you know, I, and the feedback we've gotten so far, let's pursue this new material and with the brick. Maybe, and then the other rendering maybe all break. I don't know if that would end up slightly less I mean there isn't, you know, like a $10 square foot difference. There is a lot of square footage. Yeah. And I think that's what, in the end what the committee is going to have to decide between foreign exterior material. I have a feeling what's going to happen later on based on my previous experience with other projects is we're going to be deciding whether or not we're using all new furniture or reusing a lot of our furniture now and and so if we're. I don't know, you know the exterior material is forever. So maybe the furniture is less important. Just lots of things going on in the head. Thank you. So Ellen, Josephine, are we clear on what you'll bring back to the next building committee meeting. When is that building committee meeting. July fest, July fest. No, we're not we're not going to have pricing till when is the estimate coming in, Josephine. Let me look at, let me pull up a date here. So I'm just trying to be clear on what is needed right now. So there was some wobble on that. Do we need to have the material picked at the end of schematic design and then finalize it later. We, we just picked the base bit. And that's what we needed. Okay. So we're just going to be on the bottom top. Yes. And there's gone on the bottom. That's just mean that's what you requested. Correct. Yes. Okay. Then the cost estimates. We're expecting back from the cost estimators. July 22nd. You know, Michael Alexander is going to want to take a quick peek at it. I want to take a quick peek at it. You know, the ones that we're going to come to town. And then so on the 25th is when we'll be able to sort of share them with with the town and the committees. Okay. So we'll be at that. Building committee meeting. And there's no other 26 now Sharon. That's my understanding is that the next LBC is on the 26th. Okay, 26. So it would be the 26. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, thank you. I'm glad you did this research because it really pivoted us on kind of what we were worried about and thinking. Josephine. Ellen, is there anything else? No, I think I'm glad we made a decision. Thanks, Sharon or George on this. No, you guys are awesome. Thank you so much. For your patience. I think you deserve martinis tonight. You know, we're, we're, we're, this is a good group and whatever we can do to help you guys. Thank you. And I totally deserve you. Yeah, I totally agree with what Ellen said. Great. Thanks, George. Thanks for weighing in. Yeah, no, we really need you guys. We're really dependent on, on what you bring to us and your professional insight. So, who that was a lot. Okay, so we see you again when Craig when is it would it be the, are they coming back for July 5th or July 6th is, is what I mean that 8th July 8th is the next building committee meeting. So do we see them then or we don't see them until the 20, the next design subcommittee. The next subcommittee. I don't know that they're going to have anything that you know, or the next week they're going to be putting together that the finishing touches on the schematic design cost set and then I don't know that they're going to have anything developed. For the eight more than what you're overseeing here. And then so perhaps that you know the following one, we will have so that would be like July 29. We'll have cost estimates in hand. We can, you know, finalize some of these, hopefully finalize some of the, you know, that confirm this decision that we made today about the material. And then beyond that then we'll start getting into color selection and things of that nature. But I don't know that there's going to be anything for them to present on at the next design subcommittee. Yeah, I don't so I don't think they need to be there at July 8th I'm trying to figure out what the agenda is here and then the next one would be the 22nd, but I'm not even sure we'll see them at the 22nd because that's when the cost estimate is, you know, just coming out. So, the next full meeting then would be the 26th and ours wouldn't be until August 5th of course we can always change that but it sounds like the next. So, what do you think Craig for the next, what does the design have to worry about design subcommittee worry with the designers in the next month. So I would say let, let them get through the schematic design next week, the schematic design cost estimate next week, then I would ask the fine gold Alexander group to take a look at what design decisions they're going to need during design development, and then feed that information back to you and I, are you and me, and say okay you know we want to have this type of meeting this type of feedback on these, you know, weeks, and then we can tailor those agendas to match that. Because there'll be a bunch of decisions that the design team will be looking for you this committee subcommittee to make, but I sounds like we don't have those pinned down right now. Let me give them a couple weeks to sort of get that blocked out and then we'll develop that DD design subcommittee schedule. And one thing that's going to be part of DD and it just came to mind but we'll give you a list is, is colors of the interior colors finishes carpet. This is a, it'll be a flood of information in a nice way you know we'll probably come back to you a couple of times we'll have a couple of rounds of that but that's a big piece of this next phase, as well as the FF and E the furniture. Craig, can you get. What's the status of that so that we gave you this defer proposal. What's the, what's the turnaround or what's the next steps with that because we want to get them going pretty they're like ASAP. Got it. So, so the town was hoping to have the full design package so just that AV and lighting those components, so that they understand sort of like the full proposal. So we're proceeding or before signing the contract. Do you have in your project budget do you have money in there for AV and FF and E and lighting. Yes, but it was the original design, the design fee, excluding those things has slightly exceeded that budget. So we're already kind of working at a disadvantage. All right, well, they're not going to get going to we get going so if they could reconsider and jumpstart the FF and E because it's going to take us a couple of weeks to get you know the proposals. But if that's the way we're going that's fine. What was there I guess, was there a rationale why, why were those items excluded, and maybe let's have an offline. We always exclude them always. Yeah. So I heard ASAP in there. Does that have anything, does that need to go on an agenda for the design subcommittee, anything in there on the no I that that's more of a town of Amherst decision. Yeah, right. Okay, actual stuff. All right, so you'll follow up on that. Okay, so it is. Is there anything else. Okay, so can I ask Craig a question is so is there a question about our fee. No, okay, because we're proceeding. And if there is I mean that. No, okay. It's just, you know, they need a V. Okay, design services they need lighting design services. They obviously need furniture design services. But all of them sort of as a package they make our budgets aligned we need to understand the full picture. And the question sometimes actually have AV people on staff. Is that any chance Amherst has that. I do not know, like the technology department. We have an IT department but they, they manage the entire towns it I'm not sure it's an offline discussion. Yeah, let's do because that they may be able to do what we need done here because it's not heavy on AV on this project. So, Craig, you know how to carry that part through right. A couple other items, I think Craig from what you had noted a couple days ago and I'm not sure if we touch base on that today or not but it was the public comments from the initial round. And then just the EV charging stations so those are the two topics that we thought we would touch base on today it's time allowed. I propose a change I mean we're at 10 of to noon. And we were going to do round three comments. Can we push those to July 8, Craig. And then today just finish up with going back to round one questions from the designer. That works for me. That would be okay. We had a few in there that are designed but like do they do you think it's sensitive do we have to do round three for them to finish up schematic design by next week. At this point, anything relative relative to schematic design has already has already that window has closed. So anything that we talk about now we're going to be looking at it from the framework of design development. Fantastic so if it's okay. So this week or next week. Can we move this round three to our agenda on July 8 and just listen to the designer with any issues they had with the round one. Yeah, yes. Okay. And just thinking I ask you a question is the charging stations. Were you trying to get something on the drawings for SDs. We could potentially put a note in. It's not so much we can't coordinate anymore at this point but we could put notes in if necessary we we have a site plan here just to sort of maybe touch base with with you folks about because this is just you know initial discussions and create an email I think it was this week on that. So, potentially, at the bottom of this presentation we just have a site plan so we could sort of look at it together and if you have any comments. So our initial reaction is just, you know, we don't have a lot of parking spots and we didn't know if your feedback was to have, you know, those spots used or if you're thinking about potentially having, you know, public sidewalk spots, etc. So, maybe just getting a little bit of feedback from you folks would be great. I was envisioning those existing spaces. Okay, SMT parking. Oh, staff parking. Oh, so that's definitely not staff parking. We had agreed that what would be there. So at the time, five, six years ago it was all going to be handicapped parking. But so now maybe it's half handicapped and half charging car charging. How do y'all feel about that. You said it again, half. Sure, a half handicapped and charging. Yeah, car charger stations. So no public space, like, only if you have an electric car. Right, yeah, I mean, there was not going to be any because there's only I think like nine, nine spots. The thought all along has been those are all going to be handicapped spaces but now fast forward to, you know, the year 2025 when we open, we should definitely have a car charging station. If half the spaces could be handicapped in the other half. Car charging stations I thought that would be nice. Well, the question I have on the car charging is, isn't there a public lot across the street and aren't there any there. I mean, why do you need them on your site sharing because the thing some I don't I don't have a car that needs a charging station but what I understand is it takes a while to charge your car. So cars going to be there a while. So I'm completely out of my element what I heard from the town sustainability coordinator is that it would be ideal if it could happen at the library and so aren't there fast charging. Yeah, who's buying and I'm being the money part of this who's buying them it's adding costs and do you really need them. If you do, we'll put them in but you know, it's not typical that we. We can put them in my strongly about, well, go ahead. I was in my recommendation is that if they are in they would not be coming out of this project budget, rather they'd be financed from something else and we just be accommodating space for them. Okay. That was going to be my question is, can we just maybe plan for the infrastructure of it and not necessarily talk about installing this charging stations themselves. Maybe just making sure that the site is prepared for the possibility of it. Well you're saying have conduit under the whatever whatever whatever form it may take. So my feeling is there is a public town lot across the street and his demand increases for EV that the town can find funding and add more and more of those spaces across the street to be EV. I hate to see, I only count seven spots there. If four of them were handicapped we're talking about three spots, I don't want to see those three spots just become for electric vehicle I think we need a few spots for the regular public for the mom and a minivan or whatever to drop something off like to keep them open. I just, it's so ideal across the street a town lot that can be EV, you know, heavily, and let them deal with it I don't want to see anything coming out of even infrastructure beef out out of our budget, we've got to start thinking about where, as Ellen said earlier it's little bits of money bits but I think we have to start thinking about, can we start saving some bits. And that's zero building that's amazing and there'll be lots of other amazing things about it but I just my other question with the site plan. I know this topography issues there. Is there any way to squeeze out a few more parking spots there. Sharon said nine but I only see seven there and I know. You know there's Well, we don't. There's trash and loading areas also that have to be open but I don't know if you guys have really looked at the site is there any way to add more some more spots. Go ahead just. I think, at the time as well we were looking at this as being staff spots and I think Sharon just said it's not staff spots any longer so that's a change as well I don't think they were all accessible in the last SD submission so we really need to move back and look at that because that takes up a lot more with. Yeah, yeah, that's the request we we definitely need to convey that to our to our, you know, site folks. That's something new, I think the code dictates how many spots we must have. Yes. And then if you want to go and I don't know what that is just being, but if you want to go over and above that you certainly can but it will take more space is just being noted. I just noticed the seven there is staff as soon as you turn them to handicapped they need wider you know you have the access point so what do we get down to five and that's in it's sloping so I don't know how handicapped they can be that's we'll look at it for sure. And if you can squeeze more out. The one thing George needs I think he actually does need a charging station for the van he's going to buy in a couple of weeks. So, well, a couple weeks to be fantastic but the reality is the reality is that we were hoping that there was going to be at least electricity in the storage shed area. I'm working towards getting a grant to actually pay for the charging station to go along with the van. So what is just important to me is that there is electricity going out to the shed area which I kind of assumed was going to happen anyways for lighting and such. But yeah the charging station itself is something that I'm going to fight for outside the project. I have a feeling that this will be a larger conversation at JLBC, you know at the full committee. I think there's going to be a lot of different opinions there. So just clarifying because now I just heard it went from staff parking label there to public parking half handicapped. So, George, there's a van that is a library van that will get parked in this area. Correct, I mean I envisioned it being parked in the loading area because whenever we're going to get deliveries or something there'll be stuff here to move the van but but yeah, some one at least one parking space somewhere will be taken up by the by the town's van. So is there going to be a parking space down to that loading area there's nothing marked there. And does that need to be investigated. It should be. There should be a space determined for the library's delivery van. Yes. Be it one of the upper spots or a spot in front of the storage shed. There really needs to be a location to park the library's vehicle. And that's 24 seven, like availability. Yes. Yes. Okay, so Josephine you got that one. And could there be a spot down near the loading dock area I see the property line I know again this topography issues. It's tight down there. Yeah. But if that. So you'll include that in your in your designing. Next, can I ask a question because since we did this so much has happened in terms of deliveries to buildings. When you get an Amazon delivery or book delivery, are they all coming down still coming down this drive or they are some of them are. Some of them are coming down the driveway and it's the brave go down the driveway and the not so brave park on the street with the four ways on. That's the best way to say it. So do you prohibit the trucks from coming down because we can know I think it's I think it would be the most practical for the trucks to be able to go down. Okay, because you have some companies that are changing their policies Amazon, for instance, will not or not Amazon FedEx will not bring into the building if they can't easily access it. I don't want to leave it outside so I definitely do want not want to deter delivery vehicles from being able to get down to the loading area. And how do they get out George do they back up. They back out. Yeah. Yikes, that's a safety issue but that's why I don't park in the driveway very often. Yeah, no it is definitely it's definitely a safety issue it's a concern but it's it's what they do. Because the turn the existing turnaround area is not necessarily big enough for most of the vehicles that deliver supplies. Okay. But we are we are what we are one of the few downtown businesses so to speak that do have a driveway. So it's it's you know, delivery drivers are accustomed to delivering in an urban area where they don't have that luxury. All right, well get the parking design specialist on that creative thinking. You had some is there more new stuff or do you want to talk about the round one comments. Yeah, I think if no one else that no one else has any comments on this we can go to the round one comments. Anything else Sharon George. So, the, there weren't too many that we wanted to run through but sorry it's taking a while to live. We highlighted in orange just the ones we want to do briefly touch on today. Again, like you mentioned some of this might be happening in DD but we understand that the Burnett gallery has been brought up a few times about having natural lighting, entering the space and you know at the moment where it is, it's in a central location, and we've been showing it in a central location I think it's going to have to stay in a central location so you know we could potentially look at having some of those fault have glazing and some of those walls depending on what's being displayed. So there's potential for lighting to enter but, but we're, you know, we went through the plans with you so all clear that it is a central location at the moment. So we just wanted to reiterate that here. So architectural lighting ways to like they say natural lighting and I think you know windows always the nicest or skylight that natural natural light but lighting now you know there's like crappy lighting and this you know, LED of various types like, I mean, the other way of looking at this is there is there, you know, you know, slight costly change but to make it better electrical lighting. Yeah, I mean they definitely have specialty lighting for art spaces exhibit spaces and I mean some of that might be back to like talking to curators but and then some of it is specialty lighting perhaps that our lighting consultant can can run through. I don't know if you've worked on a space like this before, where maybe a lighting consultant. Yeah, I the question that and I think Sharon you, you had said and I may have misheard but this is really a casual gallery. Isn't it's not like museum quality gallery. In between. How's that. Rotating monthly gallery display. I mean, my thoughts are natural lighting is the worst thing you can do for all right of any kind of media. So I look at this comment and I don't think this comment is coming from the perspective of someone who would maintain a gallery because the last thing you wanted to gallery is natural lighting. Right. So yeah I really disagree with that comment altogether. I'm commenting that if you're looking at art and the artists intention. There's good lighting and bad lighting you want lighting that shows the true color spectrum. We would have good lighting. That's what one of the things our lighting designer would be. So we can work that through. That'll be part of what we do. Great. It's great. The next item was just a cafe coffee bar water bar. So we just wanted to make sure that we were going down the correct path. We do have counter space in the main near the Cirque desk in the main cafe area. And all you folks are looking for is infrastructure in the wall for future potential sink or coffee bar location. Is that correct. Or refrigerator. So yeah. Not, not necessarily for day one, but some other librarian. Yeah, don't, don't take it on Sharon. The walls right that there's enough for a sink or potentially a dishwasher and some kind of refrigerator that just the power and the pipes are there. I'm just curious, has anybody seen a kid this setup and in a library? Yes. Have you okay. Well, yeah, so it so in theory, at some point, the library could invite an outside vendor the library could contract with somebody and they could sell their food drink refreshments with whatever it is. And so it would be great to have a sink there or something. Sure. We can do that. But for special, special events with the area there caters come, you know, it could become multi purpose but down the road, but it would be nice to just have the basics there so it's not so costly if there is a decision to ever do it. When Sharon retires. Yeah. We'll have it ready for your retirement. You know, just to just to clarify, I'm actually very much in favor of libraries having food and drink. I think it's brilliant. I think it's the one thing that Barnes and Noble does that's a really good idea, letting food and drink, and people enjoy their coffee table books. I think it's awesome. I have spoken with other librarians who do that kind of a thing and the actual, the contractual process can be a nightmare. There are also health concerns health inspectors that then have to be involved and I'm, I'm just not ready to take that on quite yet. It gets complicated. It's running another business. It may, I totally get you. So just designers right if whatever on a low cost if you can, if you're already running the conduit or whatever just make sure that there's something there. It's making me hungry. Well, we quick. The next one is ESL needs a living room. And I think, you know, someone noted here there will be a reception area, however, no couches. We don't have an actual space, you know, as you know, we moved ESL up to the top floor so we've got that nice corridor circulation space and we do show some seating in that space but there's no actual, you know, waiting room or living area. Correct. Yeah, and that's good. Yeah. Okay, great. And then lastly, at least one dark corner. And I think NBLC will scream at this one but what does it say just be at least one dark wound like corner. So it was the thought behind that's the only request we would get from a town of Amherst because that's, you guys are unique. You know that so that it was meant to be the comment was coming from the point of view they're looking for a low sensory space. So for example, when we were just at where the heck where we was at Medford, or yeah, or yes, Medford. So it had that room where the lights could be dimmed and there was a nice, you know, it was a glass wall and so I don't know how to go about doing this we obviously don't have any extra rooms laying around. So if the possibility. I don't know if it's within the lighting to make that as flexible as I, I don't know the answer it's all about having a low sensory space. Could it ever be Sharon and I understand now that I understand the comment now, could it ever be in the, is this for the, the adults or the kids. I think it could be either. Okay, because if it's it could be a group one of the group study rooms I mean those lights can be certainly on a dimmer. That makes sense to me. It does. That was my thought on it. Was dimmable lighting. Maybe that would be the interior group study room. Yeah. When I say interior I mean the one that's sort of in the central space of the library not the ones on the perimeter walls. Yep. Yep. Thank you. And that was it for questions. I just have one general question, you know these things that keep you up in the middle of the night. Do we have looking to the future and where we've been the last couple of years and evolved with COVID and zoom. Do we have enough rooms that people will be able to use to have their zoom meetings. Yeah, we, yeah, we had this discussion a little bit I think maybe sharing with you individually but we will want to hear from you as we, you know begin dds that'll probably be one of our items that Ellen pointed out on the list of things to talk through but where you expect to have zoom calls because the acoustics have to be a little bit different in those spaces you can't just jump into any room and have a zoom call. So that's something that you folks will need to think about and we'll have to, you know, talk through that with you and our acoustical consultant and and our electrical folks too. I think all the group study rooms need to have that, that possibility. Yeah, I'm just so we're experiencing this in our office right so we've created a couple more conference rooms and the acoustics are terrible and the AV is terrible so it's it's equipment based and really finishes based as other solutions but the equipment for the our smaller spaces is not bad but when you're talking your meeting room. I think I think this is where we want to chat with have our AV consultant chat with your IT people because I'm sure the town's been doing these. Yeah. The town has one room. That they use for town council. So the schools are in process right now so I'm not sure where they, they're behind us in their process. And they're worried about when we come off this and go hybrid to write if we're meeting in person and trying to do the zoom they're not really fully outfitted to handle that. The schools are the schools anyone any committees. The schools in person in Amherst. Oh yeah we all are. Yeah, good. But I mean like all the committees with it being Amherst we have a lot of committees. But they can really only handle the town council right now in a high capacity. Right rooms that have groups of folks doing a hybrid situation for a meeting. It can really be a nice experience if you're in a room that's set up for it because there's speakers built into the ceiling there's mics in appropriate locations there's correct acoustics and you can really have a successful pretty cool hybrid meeting if you've been in one. You'll know exactly, you know what we're referring to and that's something we should probably be. So we can imagine our board room being set up that way, but depending on cost and, and possibly the small meeting room that's downstairs on the ground level, but, but depending on cost. I don't see how we could possibly outfit every room that we have in the space I was just thinking for all of our group study rooms I think there may be for there's four of them, and the tutor rooms, you know if they had that ability. But they wouldn't need to be set up for those hybrid meetings just for somebody to be able to do. Okay. As long as you guys are being really futuristic because that's what we're trying to build here. And just the libraries I do work at chickpea public library and the tours we had at Medford, and in Wuburn, their rooms that they do have are just booked out their land and I think that will only increase in the future. And Sharon I was, I assume the large meeting room will have have to be set up for a hybrid meeting. So I, I hate to be the one that decides if cost isn't an issue yes that would be awesome but I mean, how, how much extra money are we talking about you might not be able to answer. You know just in our small conference room. It's in what is it 16 by, I don't know, 25 for the equipment it's around $7 to $10,000. I think we're back to the cafe is what I'm hoping is that you can run the electrical, you know, and have it set up and then yeah it costs $10,000 for the equipment. That will have to be worried about later but at least if the building itself is more ready to incorporate that kind of modern technology. I think that's worth the small cost. Yep, we agree. I'm going to add on Sharon. George, do you got anything else. No, I'm good. This gig. Okay. So, no topics chair 48 hours in advance. We'll move to public comment. We've pretty much probably bored everybody to tears. Yeah, we have time in there and at this time, if you have any questions, or a statement to make now would be the time raise your hand watching, give it a moment. Then we're going to move to adjournment. I'll just say our next meeting is July 8. The next Jones library building committee meeting is on July 5 at 430. And the next outreach meeting will be July 26 at 4pm. It's been switched to the 19th. Oh, thanks for outreach. Okay, I wasn't so outreach is now the 19th. That makes sense, because at that same time we're going to have the second next Jones library building committee meeting. Okay, so I'm seeing no hands. Thank you all. All right, so before I move to adjournment I just. Ellen, I don't know if Steve still there and Josephine. Thank you so much for all your hard work. Craig. Thank you for your support. This was a lot. You guys have a lot of work to do. Sharon, it's Angela. Can you please stay on for a bit. Yes, you bet. Thank you. Okay, thanks guys have a good weekend. Thank you everybody weekend. Thank you. Hey, so I just wanted to catch up with you on the agenda for July. You asked me to add something to the agenda, which is something you've never asked me to do before. So I'm looking at the agenda that you sent me for the 5th of July. Yeah. I just, where do you want this new item from epsilon to go. I would put it under finances, put it under Sean's report. And I, is it epsilon. Yeah, yeah. All right, I just didn't want to put it in the wrong place. You could not do wrong. Excellent. Even if you put it somewhere, it's totally fine. Thank you so much. Austin would have, he would agree. Whatever Angela says is perfect. Thanks so much vacation. Did I hear. Yes.