 We are back. I hope we're back for a third time what we're gonna do at this point It's basically a kind of self-contained show about the Canadian elections We caught you off mid-flow in part one part two I think you never got a chance to answer the question and now we're in part three. So so we're gonna start again Talking about are you sure we're live cuz not live on my laptop. Oh, no, we are brilliant. Excellent That was just a delay once more with yeah, yeah, no this one this one with feeling okay Can you? Explain to me Justin Trudeau Who he is his four years in government help our audience understand? Canada's liberal darling. Well, I could probably do it better now that I've had a practice attempt Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah second time lucky. Well third time lucky. Yeah, um, I mean I think I think most simply and I don't think I got this into my first answer The the best way of understanding Justin Trudeau is that he is just a product of a really Of a social media-driven news cycle where your ability to go viral You know is is a major political currency. So In 2015 especially if you saw Trudeau stories, it was always about his socks or he dressed up in a You know, he dressed up as Han Solo for Halloween or something like that But I his more vanilla outfits. Yeah, that's right. We'll get on to that later. Yeah. Yeah But I think the worm has turned But I think I think I think more specifically, you know Trudeau was was the only Liberal of that kind who in what was a very difficult period for for liberals around the world We he was able to hack the formula for how you how you keep, you know The politics of the 1990s how you keep third-way liberalism going in a world where it's It's under assault from both left and right You know, and he was able to do that basically by I think channeling a version of the elite consensus in Canada Well also seeding Ground rhetorically at least to to what people what people want it. So, you know, there are lots of Anxious people working class middle-class people who do want a government that acts on climate change that is interested in the redistribution of wealth You know who think inequality has gone too far who care about the rights of indigenous peoples You know who basically support a you know a kind of social democratic policy agenda and Trudeau was able to You know embrace that Pretty pretty well at least at least rhetorically. I mean, I think a lot of people who voted liberal thought that they were voting for a You know a left of center government that was going to do those things and after his election That's very much how this was received in the international press, especially You know David from wrote this article in the Atlantic Canada lurches to the left and he compared Trudeau to Sanders and Corbin Which which of course is absurd but because Canada is such a small country There's all there's always a feedback loop with the international press the international press Especially the American press covering Canada is always it like an event unto itself. It's like someone's notice does exactly right like so so the the American perception in particular, but more widely the the international perception of Trudeau came to Influence how he was perceived in Canada as well, which which just amplified his I think false bona fides as a transformative and progressive figure And I mean basically he's led a pretty technocratic He's led a pretty technocratically minded not particularly ambitious Government that I think you can see you can see the contradictions in rhetorically embracing all these causes. I mentioned while pursuing a kind of a you know a Market-friendly, you know center-right agenda that doesn't antagonize too many people with wealth or power Climate change is a really good example the Trudeau position is well We're gonna build the pipelines. We're actually gonna be very zealous advocates for them, but we're doing so in order to Generate the revenues necessary to you know do a green transition or whatever So that's that's that's that's an example of what the Trudeau project has has been in practice And why I think it's so so utterly unconvincing. We should go back to that climate one I want to just first of all read out some of the promises he broke And if you watch one of the one of the previous streams you might have seen this already I'm not sure I don't know when it cut out but in any case in 2015 He wasn't just you know the hot boxer liberal guy He also had some serious promises in his in his manifesto So he promised to implement fully and without qualification the UN declaration of the rights of indigenous peoples It would have given first nations in Canada the right to veto natural resource development So exactly those kind of pipelines you're talking about not only should that have been You know rejected on the grounds of climate change But also when Trudeau was in power indigenous community should have been able to veto those pipelines He ignored that once he was in power in opposition They opposed arms sales to Saudi Arabia in government They have implemented a 15 billion arms deal with the Saudis And he said he would increase taxes on the 1% did that happen? So that's that's an interesting story unto itself So the answer is sort of yes and no So they they did create a new tax bracket on I think incomes It's either over two hundred thousand or over three hundred thousand dollars a year But they also did something that they called a middle-class tax cut which the highest gate which was a cut for the the the tax bracket I Guess between eighty nine thousand and two hundred thousand dollars And so the net result was actually less income for like less less revenue generated through income tax So it was a it was a perfect kind of political slate of hand because they were able to Cut taxes in a way that you know most of the majority of the gains went to the top 10% of earners But raised them very slightly for the top I guess 1% of earners And the net result being that there's actually less revenue collected through income tax And so it's hardly hardly hardly activist government coming back But that is how it was received and from what I can tell I mean you might Be able to tell me otherwise But the only thing that it seemed like he's actually followed through on his sort of nice liberal words is on refugee resettlement So last year in 2018 Canada resettled more refugees in any other country only 28,000 It's not a huge huge amount, but I mean comparatively obviously it's impressive for a country with that population to have Resettled the absolute largest number in the world. So it seems like it's not all talk at least on that specific issue Yeah, I mean I have credit there. I think the government deserves some credit on that I mean, I think that Something I mean within Canada that kind of position is a lot closer to what the the political consensus already is because multiculturalism Is is really a constitutive part of the Canadian identity and is in fact State policy Like we have state state multiculturalism as public policy in Canada The Quebec issue so you've got oh and I suppose first nations people it well it dates It's I think it's bigger than the United States is also a country of immigrants But they don't have a particularly generous refugee settlement policy, right? So if you go if you grew up in Canadian if you if you grew up going to Canadian public school You learn that the United States is is a melting pot where people are encouraged to assimilate and that Canada is a cultural Mosaic and while that is a little reductive There is there is some truth to it. So We you know in Canada people are encouraged to preserve their identities is that is the notion and there is something to that I think the government does deserve some credit on that, but again, you know, there's a lot They've done rhetorically that's that's masked places. They're they're coming up short. So Trudeau had this famous Tweet this super viral tweet where I think it was on the day of Trump's Muslim ban Where he tweeted something to the effect of you know all are well though to those fleeing persecution and danger and violence You know all are welcome in Canada, but of course there was no actual change in Canada's border policy over that Canadian authorities are still cooperating with American border services So asylum seekers coming in trying to come into Canada through the United States are not You know, there's still there's something called the safe third-party third-country agreement which is Restricting the flow of asylum seekers from the United States. So this is one of those things where again I mean, I suppose it could be argued that there's a there's a value in just rhetorically challenging Donald Trump but I think from my point of view Canada could be doing a lot more on this issue and I think Trudeau is the The the plot at C's one internationally is actually kind of obscuring some of the places where his government could could have actually done a lot more Let's talk about the campaign. So the reason we're talking about Trudeau is not just because you're in the country But also, I mean it was a happy coincidence really There is a general election on Monday. Trudeau is going to be facing re-election or is up for re-election What's going on in that election? So I Suppose we're going to talk about a particular controversy in a moment But first of all, I want you to set the scene. So Trudeau is up against a conservative opponent They were there who he replaced and now you've got an insurgent Social Democratic Party, which is the what's their name the national the new Democratic Party New Democratic Party I should have remembered that I have got it written down You need a more famous Social Democratic Party. I'm afraid So set the scene. What's at stake in in Monday's election? So there was a there was a piece on Navarra's website that I guess it can't be more than a few days old but I think it conveyed very well what the received wisdom about the campaign was until just a few days ago the campaign Initially looked like it was going to be a very sleepy affair a kind of a status quo election in which the Conservatives were going to very boringly posture to try to replace the Liberals by a narrow margin. We're probably going to fail In that in that attempt, but also the liberal campaign. There was not all not as much excitement as in 2015 They're not they don't have a particularly bold or ambitious campaign. They're doing they're really doing a classic You know defending their record after one term And there's also this this major scandal Referred to kind of colloquially is the S&C lavaline scandal which involves the Trudeau government having Basically the Trudeau himself his office having pressured his then attorney general to Basically let this Montreal construction giant off the hook and then they were kind of caught out on it And they had to change their story multiple times. It was quite embarrassing So these were the kinds of things that were kind of swirling around it was looking like a very boring election also one that was going to be potentially very difficult for the NDP, which is Canada's Social Democratic historically third-party mostly mostly third party at the national level but in the last Seven days to be generous about it. There does seem to be a real surge in the polls for the NDP And and it's unclear how far how far this is going to go There was a poll this morning from Ipsos, which is a polling company in Canada concert is at 32 percent That's down to from the last poll liberals at 30 down 5 NDP 20 up 5 and then the three smaller parties greens at 8 block of the quad 7 and the people's party Which is kind of a hard right party sort of split off from the conservative party at 2% And I mean, I think if the momentum this is a bit of an ambitious reading But I think if the momentum Continues and I think there's every sign that it will the NDP could actually go higher than 20 percent And and we could be looking at some really unpredictable results at that point before we started recording. I looked at the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation its election poll tracker and the seat projections are all over the place So it's it's really you got a first pass the post system like we have the first pass the post system And the voting is kind of heavily. It's very different depending on which region of the country or and so no one knows What's what's going to happen at this point seems unlikely. There's going to be a majority government So we could be back to another election, you know in the next few months or something like that But it's grown very Unpredictable and potentially very interesting is the well, I guess it wasn't a short answer It's the simple answer and the spanner in the works in the election So he said it was it was looking like it was going to be a kind of dull election Now you've got an insurgent social democratic party and Trudeau is is Well dipping in the polls one reason for that and the reason that you know everyone in England will know about is because a Bunch of not not one, but I think free photos of Justin Trudeau in blackface Emerged online day after day after day. I think we can get those up Apologies because the the link I've got is to the Sun, which we should in fury boycott But son and the free beacon and they just had the pictures in in high resolution So can we get First of all there was what we haven't given them any money. Have we and we're not going to show the adverts anything We've in fact, this is yeah in fact, we're stealing their intellectual property So in 2001 there is image of him when he was a teacher in a private school wearing a turban and blackface Then you've got one from the 1990s He's in they are up fabulous My what's up just go up in the 1990s. He is in blackface and an afro wig wig singing day Oh at his school and then there's another one from the 1990s This is another party this one. He hasn't just painted his face. He's also painted his arms and his tongue So this sort of undermined his status as a as a liberal open Hero as it were and I mean what's more he doesn't know how many times he's done this He seems to have a real pension in fact or seems to have had a real pension for dressing up in blackface We're before discussing, you know, these images and what it says about the Canadian election We're gonna go straight to the clip of his Apology if that's possible. Can we go to that now? darkening your face Regardless of the context or the circumstances is always unacceptable because of the racist history of blackface. I should have understood that then And I never should have done it but I recognize that it is something absolutely unacceptable to do And yeah, I appreciate calling it makeup, but it was blackface and that is just not right it is something that People who live with the kind of discrimination That far too many people do because of the color of their skin or their history or their origins or their language or their religion face on a regular basis and I Didn't see that from The layers of privilege that I have and for that I am deeply sorry And I apologize You told us last night on the plane that you are that of all of the different instances that you recalled Have you since been made aware or remembered of other instances? And if so, how many I am? wary of of being definitive about this because the recent pictures that came out I Had not remembered and I think the question is how can you not remember that? fact is I I Didn't understand how hurtful this is to people who live with discrimination every single day. This has been a Personally A moment where I've had to reflect on the fact that Wanting to do good and wanting to do better simply isn't good enough and you need to take responsibility for mistakes that hurt people who thought I was an ally who Hopefully many of them still consider me an ally even though this was a term Ellie, I don't know how many You know kind of male feminist Woke guys you've had to tolerate but how how did you take that apology? How do you think that scored to be honest? It was quite well rehearsed wasn't it? He did all that, you know, I didn't realize it because I've got all this privilege There was even a moment where he sort of corrected one of the questioners who'd said that you wore makeup I appreciate you calling it makeup, but you know it was blackface So he's sort of like the question is to show that he's now really understood what was wrong about it. What do you think I? Feel like yeah, I can't obviously I can't speak I can't speak to What what it feels like as a person of color see something like that, of course, but from from like a feminism point of view Yeah, I feel like every woman who is a Feminist and is is Assertive about that has had the experience of like a Man trying trying to be like a kind of woke male feminist and yet usually They do say stuff like that, you know, like that is the kind of stuff that they say they talk in like these sort of vaulting terms about their privilege But then they'll take you to a house party and leave you and go and get off with somebody That is by the way that didn't happen to me Quite Thinking of a specific man who did actually go out with a friend of mine and gave him all gave her all this spiel about Gender studies and whatever and then like literally did that to her and that's true though But he does it also in blackface. Yeah, and you know, I was thinking I was thinking like You know, I love 30 rock I think it's genuinely hilarious TV program. I know that like I've never seen it actually Well, we can debate whether whether like it's hilarious after I personally think it's hilarious but like but it is quite dated in its politics in lots of ways and One of the characters does Wear blackface in 30 rock and I watch that now and I sort of cringe at that and I think this is really not aged well But then on the other hand, I feel like if if blackface was actually acceptable in my lifetime And that actually it was just a case that things have moved on since Justin Trudeau dressed up like that I feel like surely I would have I would have gone warm blackface at some point I've been to Halloween parties. I've been to costume parts when I never have and I think looking back on it I think I never have because we grew up with programs like mind your language Well, we they were actually know they were sorry Sorry, they were in the 70s But we grew up our generation grew up with the understanding that programs like mind your language were embarrassing and dated and racist So that was one of those 70s sitcoms where they're all be it was a program I just about the name. Yeah, I feel reluctant to say who was in it because just in case I accidentally maligned with sort of national treasure But like it was a program about I Think it's about kind of Asian neighbors and the actors in it spoke in sort of cartoonish Asian accents and war Blackface basically and and I think you know people of a certain age grew up Understanding that that was that was dated and racist and so this idea that that it was That the blackface has been acceptable until relatively recently. I'm not sure that I buy that well. It is weird I mean, I feel like I would I would have considered wearing it at some point It was completely fine But I never have because I feel like I've always understood that that is racist You know, we've also grown up with the idea of minstrels. You've known that minstrels are racist So I don't think the idea that blackface doesn't have like It's always had racist connotations and I think for a very very long time We can now let's let's look at Matt Lucas from 2011 on the BBC So that's from eight years ago So it is I mean that's what I'm thinking of, you know, obviously, it's completely racist But at the same time and obviously I'm in no place to excuse Justin Trudeau, but it's it's a bit like that Elizabeth Warren one We know where she's like Speaking to the guy who's talking about gay marriage as if you know like I'm sure you can't get a girlfriend because you're against gay marriage That was only legalized in 2013 So before 2013 to not think gay people should get married wasn't considered I think it always was homophobic really to say that gay people shouldn't get married just as it always was racist to wear blackface But I think sometimes as a society we do pretend that our recent history was actually much Further in the past than it in fact was yeah, perhaps like perhaps the thing to say is Like there is there is racism that we collectively and homophobia and indeed sexism that we collectively tolerate and then there's racism homophobia and Sexism that we We deem beyond the pale And at one point certain things move over to the other side But it doesn't mean that like I think we've always known that those things are racist But we've always just kind of turned a blind eye to them and then like eventually things change enough for us to say well Now we can't turn a blind eye to that but it doesn't mean that when they were being done in 2011 like in that clip that it wasn't racist. It's just you know, it was yeah. Yeah Yeah, it was racist in 2011 Well, it's always been racist, but it was societally It was an exception always poses the is the point. Yeah, and I suppose that's the point I'm trying to make when I say like, you know I've never Dressed up in blackface and neither has lot neither have lots of people and it's not just coincidence It's because we it's because that's me that I'm making myself sound like I'm really virtuous But what I mean is that there wasn't and this there has been an understanding for a long time that it's racist but But it was considered a kind of racism that people didn't actually weren't actually bothered about There's some interesting comments that Jay says Ali G post-modern islamophobic racism I think lots of people look back at that thinking that was pretty racist. Yeah, and he's like an Oxford came. Yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah came rich came rich white boy pretending to be a poor He was Yeah, Ali G was white, but he saw a starry space fox says, I mean, it's not society. It's white people fair enough Yeah, new New Malayne says blackface was definitely unacceptable and racist back when Justin Trudeau did it I think we're all agreeing with that. It's whether it was exceptional or not The voice of In any case, I mean he was painting his face during anti-racist struggles, that's what Alex Quack says. Well, that I mean, that's a good point I mean, I think the reason that it's been so particularly damaging to Justin Trudeau is because he built this extremely cloying brand on off a particular kind of, you know, social justice politics and this is kind of the ultimate It's kind of the ultimate, you know It's the ultimate proof that that really was just an act. There really was just kind of performative and and you know, he's done a bunch of other things which I think are low-key You know, he's been he's been racist and in more more subtle ways before and they just kind of haven't been noticed so in in 2015 during the election there was a there was a Some kind of television program about where they had leader the leaders on to discuss they had the three male leaders on to talk about women's issues and they There was a question about violence against women and his answer basically made it sound like he was blaming rap music He was saying that's the cause You know, there's he said just a lot of misogyny and certain kinds of music or something like that Or you know in this boxing match with it, which I think was alluded to earlier He himself is referred to that. It was a boxing match with an indigenous conservative senator and he's referred to that I think it was in his Rolling Stone interview You know when he was on the cover of Rolling Stone a couple years ago and and I mean he basically says You know, we thought this sent the right the right message. You know, we thought the the implication being that you know Me a white settler, you know, white patrician settler beating up this indigenous man Is is the you know was a good is good branding? And people have always kind of ignored this when it comes from him because his brand has always been Kind of kind of too big to fail people are too emotionally and politically invested in it And I think it's extraordinary even in that answer that he gave that you just played where he's apologizing for doing blackface multiple times And saying that he can't even put a figure on it. He still manages to Quite adeptly make the whole thing about himself as you pointed out he corrects the reporter and And this is if Trudeau has you know, any any real political skill It's that he can turn even something like this. He can kind of absorb it back into his brand Although I do think this is potentially You know damaged his his image irreparably and I think that is probably one of the causes of the Of the of the NDP surge that's going on right now, although I think there are others and we should probably talk about those too Yeah, let's talk about the NDP So they've got a new leader Hug meet sing just jug meet sing. I I thought I read on his Twitter. He said it's pronounced hug me But I mean you've obviously heard it said on the television more than me. So Jug meet but then football commentators do call Jose Mourinho Jose Mourinho. Yeah, anyway, I'm gonna take your version Even though it that is the how he phonetically described it in his Twitter bio in any case Can you explain to us the leader of of the new Democratic Party and why you think he is surging in the polls? We're also gonna show a clip in a moment. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, so I think that You know Canada's Canada is hard to you know people people often ask me like so You know is the NDP like Bernie Sanders or is it like the Labour Party and You know, the answer is is kind of no in that I don't think in Canada. We don't have This kind of same populist energy that exists in some other countries. We don't we don't really have but we do have a You know, I think pretty ideologically committed form of social democracy and and his leadership I think has really Moved the party in in that direction You know, it's moved it. It's moved it to the left and there is a pretty a pretty solid Social Democratic agenda that's being campaigned on He's also talked about the need to Decriminalize drugs and the drug war which is a pretty pretty bold thing to do And I think that I think you know, he's been very well received He had a very low visibility before the campaign. He's had much higher visibility There's been a lot of racism directed at him and he's he's dealt with it extraordinarily well You know, so there was an incident a few weeks ago when he was Campaigning in a marketplace in Montreal and a man came up to him and said, you know He should take off your turban so that you'll look so that you look Canadian So there've been a lot of incidents like that. What was his response? I mean, he just sort of politely I mean, he really he really did hold his own and he just kind of politely politely push back He said, you know, something defective in in Canada being you know being Canadian means you can wear whatever you want And you know, there was a I think the one and perhaps only televised debate last week And I think most of the press gallery agreed that it was kind of his night. He did very well so I think You know, if you ask the average pundit in Canada why there's an NDP surge I think I think it would kind of stop there my own my own reading is that The NDP platform is also very popular and that the liberal victory in 2015 is as cynical as I am personally about it and as disingenuous as I found a lot of their rhetoric The fact was it was it was effective because people thought they were voting for something like a kind of social democratic agenda And so now after four years people realizing you're not going to get that under Justin Trudeau There's a possibility that that we could get it with with the NDP and I think people are actually Pretty pretty excited by that possibility. So we'll have to see how far the surge goes That's what's when I asked for a clip from you to sort of Demonstrate how he presents himself and you know why he's been effective and why he's inspired people You you showed me this one of him talking about getting water To to communities in the first nations. I've actually just checked up why my pronunciation mistake came about His twitter bio was jug like hug meet And I thought the hug was referring to the whole of the juji, but it was only referring to the ug So this is jug meet sing answering a question about A plan to fund pipelines for for clean water to first nations in Canada Can we get that clip up now? Are you just writing a blank check for all problems for all indigenous communities across the country once you get into office? So if Toronto had a drinking for water problem, if Montreal had a drinking water problem, would you be asking the same question? It's a lot of money is what i'm saying and people will look at it and know how much money are we going to spend on all this And how are you going to find that money? That's a genuine question Would you be asking this question if if Vancouver did not have clean drinking water? Would you be asking this question if Edmonton did not have clean drinking water? No, you wouldn't That's what i'm saying. Why is it that we ask the question about Whether or not indigenous people should have clean drinking water. We got to take a minute and think why is that even a question? Yes, they deserve clean drinking water. Yes, I can make it happen It's a matter of priority and I'm going to do it A politician shifting the debate by they're saying it's going to cost how much was it 1.8 billion? How much was they saying it's it's going to cost x x number of billion to Give or for the state to provide clean drinking water to various indigenous communities in In northern Canada and the question was are we going to be able to afford this? How much is it really going to cost and the answer is look Would you even ask that question if it was about Toronto if it was about montreal? And it's you know, it completely flawed the question of because you wouldn't there would know There would not be a question if in in london for example a whole borough didn't work depend I suppose we can talk about racism and economic inequality in london It might depend on what borough you're talking about but if you're talking about west minstrel or islington, then there isn't going to be A price limit on getting that area water And I suppose is this the kind of is he shifting the debate in In canada how also i mean another question how live is this issue of the rights of indigenous people in first First nation canadians in a general election. I mean it's a it's a very significant issue I think um, I mean partly because there's a lot of just Visible urgency around it but also because in 2015 the liberals campaign pretty hard as they were going to get serious on With it on indigenous rights and the conservative government that preceded them was was certainly not serious on them so I think it I think it has a Some added resonance because You know a lot of indigenous people voted liberal in 2015 and they and they didn't get the kind of government They thought they were gonna They were going to get and so I think I think that answer was really just was really just channeling that there's a lot of There's a lot of smugness in canada and I've written about this before you know the the canadian identity around kind of multiculturalism and diversity and things like that There that has much to commend it But one of the things that often functions to do is it Convinces people that if as long as the politicians talking about indigenous rights for example That means everything's fine. Canada is a multicultural country. These problems aren't very serious You know the the elites are looking into it. Everything's going to be fine. Um, and and that's just that's just not the case I mean there are there are There are people in canada that do not have clean drinking water and as jigmeets Sing says in that answer if if if that was montreola, torano, that just wouldn't be happening And so I mean let's we'll go to questions in a moment But first of all, let's talk about you know potential outcomes So it seems like if there is a surge for the NDP then Could it be the case is a possible or even likely outcome that you have Trudeau reelected as the leader of the party with the most seats But in a coalition with the NDP and would that be a You know a real progressive moment for canada It's possible. Um, I mean so sing has said that he's open to a coalition government And I don't think trudeau has ruled it out yet. I had I had my reading of of The NDP posturing that way was actually that it was designed to force the liberals to reject the idea I'm not sure if that's if that's the case or not Um, but that is a possible outcome. I mean, it's very difficult to know how the seats are going to break down I think we could end up having an election very soon another election. It seems it seems hard to imagine Any party having a majority of seats And so Things have become really volatile and unpredictable unpredictable at this point and with I mean, I guess it's uh, it's Tuesday, right? So there's less than a week to go But if the NDP momentum continues and there's a point before the end of the campaign that the polls Uh, you know that the liberals and the NDP of the NDP has leapfrogged the liberals and they're in in in second place The liberals will then start to lose a lot more votes because there are a lot of people in canada that will basically vote for whatever The non-conservative option is which is one of the things that's always served the liberals very well Um, and that you know might might still happen this election But if the NDP momentum continues, um, you know, the the outcome could be uh, could be really extraordinary And uh, then we'll uh, we'll just have to see what happens. I'm somewhat wary of making predictions given how volatile The whole thing is would it be a good idea? Someone's asked this in the comments So would it be a good idea to go into coalition with truto if you're a member of the NDP? I think uh, I think if the NDP were to do that, there would have to be uh, there would have to be some really clear The the coalition would have to have um I mean, there'd be first a question of is it is it actually a coalition government or their NDP cabinet ministers? Um, I'd have to think more about that my instinct is to say that might not be advisable um, but it could also be some kind of uh, uh, some kind of formal accord where the NDP says Uh, we'll give you the confidence of the house for x amount of time provided you Uh, you implement this agenda along with us, which we'll vote for and I think the terms of that would have to be pretty Strict the liberals should not be allowed to stay in power. Um, unless they're gonna, um, you know Reverse on a lot of their, uh, you know, I mean they they need, you know, they need to raise rich people's taxes They need to change the electoral system. They need to cancel pipelines. Uh, they need to build affordable housing they need to extend medicare to include Uh, pharmaceutical drugs dental care mental health care There's a lot they need to do and I think the price of the NDP's support should certainly be very very high Let's very quickly go to questions and we're going to do these quick fire because I think actually the sound and vision If the comments are correct somewhat gone out of sync And as the as the stream has already gone down three times this evening Let's not try our luck. Uh, but if you've got any questions now is your chance Because we are going to end this stream in about five minutes. I reckon so if you've got any desperate ones Put them in now whilst you're doing that Uh, we are about to move studio. We will have better internet in that new studio Which means that streams will go down less. Hopefully never Uh, I still don't understand why sometimes at the end of streams Our mouths start moving at a different pace to the audio I think that's probably because we need an upgrade of our software and the way we upgrade our software is a bit more money Uh, so please go to support.nrmedia.com Uh, and oh people are saying the sync is fine. It was just the problem with someone else's Laptop, so I mean still give us some money. Sync is perfect. That's great. In any case give us I'm very pleased about that. Give us some questions um Oh, people are asking whether other people are still in the old chat When will michael and us nation get a tv studio michael and us nation. That's my podcast. Oh incredible sick Are you well you're in a different continent? I am. Yeah, so I don't know how that would work Yeah plug your podcast while i'm collecting questions So yeah, michael and us well, um That's a podcast I do with a fellow called will slone who's a longtime Friend and colleague of mine. We started. I thought the michael was me. That's why it makes sense I wasn't sure at first what the question was. Yeah, but so uh will and I met in student journalism and um Maybe 11 or 12 years ago when we met we for some reason had a lot of conversations about the documentary filmmaker michael more Who I guess in the early 2000s was kind of formative for both of us So we started we started we started this kind of vanity project kind of ironically Watch all all of michael more's filmography again and look at it through the lens of current events and it turned out there was a lot of material to mine because um A lot of his films I mean some of them hold up some of them suffer from a lot of limitations that liberalism I think Continues to suffer from and so then that led us to going through kind of season two was going through all of the Sort of bargain basement conservative documentaries that were anti michael more because they were really scared of him in 2003 2004 He would call him a liberal um It's it's it's caught. I would I would say it's complicated um But I feel like a liberal would never have made capitalism a love story his his his films have um I mean the the audience for his films is pretty is pretty diverse. He's he's uh I think often his politics are are are better than is sometimes conveyed in in his films I've quite warmed to him in the last few years again because uh because I think he's been on the right side of a lot of issues And he's been very perceptive about some things But of course we eventually exhausted the michael more thing and so now it's sort of a just a general uh, you know politics current affairs Show where uh, you know often the centerpiece is a is a piece of cultural paraphernalia Sometimes from the you know earlier mid 2000. So i'm delighted that a michael and us fan is uh, there's more than one A also asks has michael and us considered doing any adam kurtis docks Yes, we have and joseph o says have green it. This is a question But then also it has a big up have green issues been a prominent issue in the election after the pipeline scandal Also big up michael and us nation. That's from joseph o. Wow. Uh, yes the yes green issues. Uh have been Do you want to expand I suppose I said it was quick fire that was quick fire. That's good But I mean they're not surging in the polls are they? Oh, well the green party is a whole is a whole other story and I mean a sort of Something I could have mentioned when when uh, when I when I was introducing the election is that the green party was actually Looked like they're on course do pretty well and even in in certain scenarios. Maybe overtake the n dp um, and and you know the green party, um in canada is a little bit strange it it um All kinds of people run for it. It's it's sort of an ideologically catch-all party I mean my understanding of the uk green party is that it's it's generally been pretty pretty firmly left of center I don't know if that's Sounds accurate to the two of you, but canada's green party is not really like that. It's very much a sort of personality vehicle around the leader elizabeth may um, and uh, oh this is a bit of a personality caroline lucas, but that kind of happened by accident just because they only had one mp So there was no choice, right? So I don't blame her really. Yeah, she's great as well I think she's made some missteps over brexit recently, but like generally she's been brilliant Yeah, but so yeah canada's green party is a little weird and um, they they usually pull better during elections Then they do on election day and all indications. I think that's going to happen again max Stanley has a question and he's being very persistent with it. I max um And it's probably good, but it's one of those questions where I don't understand it So I'm just going to have to read it, but I'm scared now. Is it is it about um the Labor party rule book because that would be a very max question to ask I don't think you're going to know what it means either. No, okay You might do I think I think it's canada specific. So max Stanley asks can luke talk about the waffle Oh, and how it's defeat stunted the development of the ndp It's a really it's a really interesting question. So the waffle was um, The kind of left faction that was involved in the ndp in the early 70s and at one point It commanded something like a third of support possibly more at an ndp convention The waffle was a sort of new left Movement, I suppose in some ways analogous to You know the the benites or although I suppose they they they came later. They were kind of peaking in the 1980s But it but they were you know, all kinds of things came together You know Much more radical kind of socialist economic agenda And also, you know a lot of kind of anti-war sentiment and things like that the waffle though was also heavily premised on a kind of economic nationalism Which I I confess and this will disappoint max, but I don't think I've I've done enough critical reading on the waffle I'm very sympathetic to I don't think I've done enough critical reading on the waffles nationalism There's there people who will who will argue that nationalism was was a was a limitation Rather than a strength nationalism in canada has somewhat of a different connotation because it was nationalism That was resisting, you know american capitalism. So it was a left left nationalism But certainly there was a lot of populist energy in the waffle and When that when that was gone, I do think the ndp Suffered to reclaim it somewhat I'd love to talk to max in more detail off mic about the waffle sometime Ellie any opinions on the waffle now, you know what it is? I haven't formed any in that period of time No, I was just thinking I like waffles. Yeah waffles in general waffles are delicious And you know in them in the u.s. They have chicken and waffles and it's It's fucked up. No, it's incredible for breakfast. I had it for breakfast nose there ones Let's end it there. I want to get another beer Um, I want to open the window I want to do a little troubleshooting work out what's going on with our technology But thank you as ever for watching tisky sour. Thank you. Luke savage. It's been an absolute pleasure. Yeah pleasure. Thanks Ellie may have taken it as always a pleasure. Why didn't you invite me on this more often? I've well, okay, we'll do yeah Yeah, sure. I'll book you in excellent We're actually going to speaking of that we are going to be upping the The regularity of these podcasts as These tumultuous times speed up. I'm pretty sure we're going to do a podcast probably on friday Depending on what has been agreed at this eu summit or if Sometime towards the end of the week follow us on twitter the next feed we do will will last the whole time It'll be in sync. It'll be absolutely beautiful Um, but yeah, thank you for watching. Good night. Thank you both. You've been watching tisky sour