 Okay, welcome back everyone, we're here live in Las Vegas for IBM Impact, this is Silicon Angles theCUBE, our flagship program, we go out to the events, and expect to see them from the noise, I'm John Furrier, the founder of Silicon Angles, I'm your host, Paul Gillan, and our next guest is Kerry McGuire, Vice President of Strategy of Internet of Things at ARM, welcome to theCUBE. Oh, thank you, thanks for having me. We'd love to have you here, we've got some props here. ARM obviously is a hot topic in any conversation, obviously low power, high performance, this is the future of computing, making things smaller, faster, cheaper, faster, all that stuff is great, and certainly, we heard from Power earlier today around some of their initiatives. Internet of Things is a hot trend, you're hearing edge of the network, devices, Nest was bought for billions of dollars from Google, these are the hot trends, so tell us, why are we here at IBM Impact? And then we'll come to the arms question. Well, I mean Internet of Things is a hot trend, and from ARM we really look at the opportunity from sensors all the way to servers, so there's an explosion of innovation around devices, and the software technologies that will help developers really deploy applications. And really, one of the things that we're really here to share is, we were at the heart of the mobile evolution. And what really happened in mobile was devices became capable, they were equipped with web technologies, and the development and the way we engage developers really changed, and that spurred a massive level of growth and innovation. And so what we think is possible is to bring those same dynamics to the Internet of Things and begin to sort of really accelerate deployments of these types of systems. So share with the folks out there, do your best post to the camera, the devices you have, you can zoom in on this, I don't know if you can hold it up and put it into the camera there. Oh yeah, I've got a couple of systems. So one aspect of how we're engaging developers is we have a project called embed, it's embed.org, and this is an environment where we work with our silicon partners to provide very low cost development platforms that enable the creator of new connected things to develop a device very quickly. And so here's two examples. This is an original board from NXP that has been probably the flagship device at embed, and here's a new system from Nordic with a low energy Bluetooth connectivity in it. So with these new systems and with the fundamental software elements, developers can prototype a device quickly and have sort of the on-ramp to the application world to partners like IBM, yep, sure. So one of the things that Paul and I were talking on the intro, we were talking earlier, is there's a big trend right now in developers, it's this maker movement. Absolutely. And it's the Tinkerer Homebrew Club where in the old days back when Apple started, you didn't know somebody who worked at HP or these Intel to get these devices, but now the developers have access to this stuff. What are you seeing from a creativity perspective, what is being unleashed by this? I think it's tremendous. The embed boards we have here are based off of Cortex-M processors, which are tiny little 32-bit processors. You can stick one on the dimple of a golf ball, free-scale the device that small. And with these kinds of devices and these kind of development environment, you can create very disruptive products. And so already in the Cortex-M space, we see a lot of innovation around the wearable market, new devices being created in that space. We see some creativity coming from some new industrial applications. So we share the belief that perhaps as much of a third of these developments will come from tiny little startup companies. And that's really why we're engaging developers in this way. Kerry, power consumption seems to be a gating factor for a lot of applications. We hear things like Google Glass. One of the complaints I've heard about Google Glass from early adopters is you only get about an hour of power out of it. Do you see, as someone's on the front lines of this, is there sort of a Moore's law of power consumption we're going to see where power efficiency is going to improve at some predictable scale? There's some exciting transitions in power. But first of all, we have a breadth of products that we're feeding into Internet of Things devices. So many of the first generation products are based off of mobile processors, which are positioned to drive very high-end graphics and engagement. But most Internet of Things devices don't have that kind of interactive requirement. And so processors like the Cortex-M have a fraction of the power consumption. And the thing that most excited me this year at the Consumer Electronics Show was many of those systems being demonstrated with energy harvesting techniques. So, you know, Generating their own power. Generating their own power, using technologies like low-power wireless over 802.15.4, six low-pan technologies without batteries to share their information over the Internet to cloud applications. That is disruptive because that creates an opportunity to quickly add context that can be deployed and forgotten about. I know batteries are not your area, but I heard John Dorr last fall talking about disruptive technology in batteries coming along in the near term. I'm sure you work with a lot of battery providers. Do you see a big breakthrough technology there that is going to change the game? Batteries have been a hard go for a long time to see transformative. We certainly see transformative form factors. We see techniques like energy harvesting, taking the pressure off of batteries in a long-term situation. We think power is going to be something that our partners will have to excel at for a long time. Now, you're here at IBM. We were just talking to Doug Baylock from IBM Power in previous conversation. He was talking about where they want to move their chips, and there's some overlap with where you're going with ARM. Well, you have a strong embeddable store. You also want to move into the service space. Are you competing with power at the same time you're sort of cooperating here? Well, I mean, it's a great question. We're a partnership company. We work with many companies, but I think I said earlier, we think of the Internet of Things for ARM as being from sensors to servers. And one of the unique thing about the ARM partners is their ability to take our processor technology and put intelligence around the system. And in data center applications or industrial gateways that have data center-like capabilities, I think there's a real value to that type of a heritage where they can optimize for storage, to support analytics, where they can optimize for networking capabilities to really make the traffic patterns work for the application. So we do anticipate, ARM's partners are investing in partners like Marvell and AMD making chips with very high-end capabilities that will absolutely find their way into data centers. But I also think there's some interesting opportunities in these sort of embedded systems that are essentially data centers in a box being deployed at the edge of these IoT applications. Will this market fragment the embeddable processor market? Do you see there being a great many providers in the long term or will consolidate and will ARM possibly be the big winner? Well, I mean, certainly one of the big distinctions we have from the mobile industry to the Internet of Things is diversity. And diversity not only in the devices, but the applications and the requirements that they really need to bring to the consumers. And so we really anticipate that's a big shift and we think diversity has to be fostered in the industry and we'll continue. And I think that is a good place for ARM to be working on some of these software challenges to make that diversity palatable to the applications. How about what diversity means, what is defined diversity? Yeah, sure. So we see a lot of diversity in processor capabilities. So I mentioned before we have, most of the mobile technology and server technology may be based on a Cortex-A family of processor, very high-end capabilities. You may see eight core implementations, four core implementations too, so a lot of diversity in a level of processing. Our Cortex-M family is tiny. You can see that in a 50 cent connected sensor device. So quite a range of capabilities hitting all of the different proposition. I also think connectivity is an area where we're going to see a lot of diversity. We believe, although today a lot of the MDM applications have evolved from a cellular connected heritage, we're seeing a lot of explosion around technologies like Bluetooth 802.15.4, so very low power wireless, being the on-ramp for these new types of devices. I think we'll see a lot of diversity around that. You said sensors to servers. I love that phrase, I've wrote that down, it's so good. Let's talk about the servers. So the data center obviously is really in need of ARM technology. How does that connect to the edge with the Internet of Things? Well, again, I think one of the great things about the ARM partners is we've come from a connected context from the start. And that really, when you think about how a mobile system is deployed hardware and software, being connected, you have to have special care around power consumption because you're really utilizing the processor and trying to optimize within a particular power envelope. Data centers, although they're powered, they're still very power efficient. So I think the heritage we have around uniquely targeted systems for specific applications and this long standing relationship with connectivity and power is an advantage for our partners. I know operating systems are not your focus, but I'll tell you, I saw a demo recently of how easy it was to hack into an Android phone. Within a minute, the guy was in the phone, he was pulling out all the data, and he had taken control of the camera and the microphone. And the CIOs in the audience were, they were shocked. And the point was that as we move toward more, toward internet or things, more embeddable devices, we're going to have a perfusion of operating systems, each bringing with it their own security vulnerabilities. Is this a problem? Is this something that IT folks should be worried about? Well, I mean, I think it's a great point you make. And when we talk about the future of the internet and the things, one of the points I often like to bring up is, is we could have done security better in mobile earlier. And when we think about a diversity of devices connecting in a transparent way, the way the internet of things wants to be, security has to be at the heart. So we've, we're investing in technologies. We acquired a company, Sensenode, who provides software that connects little devices to cloud applications. And they deploy an end-to-end security model. And we think that there's, you know, fundamentals around little devices being able to, you know, connect over IP-based networks with end-to-end security models is the necessary foundational agreement to have the right technology to start to solve that security problem in the internet of things. I think it's a big one for us to solve together as an industry. And I think it will take cooperation around standards that will support the security models we need. What are some of the big things you're seeing right now in terms of the adoption? So you hear about, you know, things, you know, water, meters, normal kind of hard normal lives, or if being instrument physically, not just from the software that stops early markets for you guys in this area. Oh no. And we're really seeing a lot of growth in two areas. We have, certainly around, you know, some of our more traditional mobile partners, we're seeing a lot of innovation around wearables. It's a natural fit for our partners who have been, you know, at the heart of the mobile industry. So so many different types of connected products in that space. However, we have a lot of our partners, a good volume of our shipments now come from the embedded space. And in that space, we have hardware and software technology being deployed in places like municipal lighting deployments in smart cities and factory and industry automation. And in many ways, a lot of some of these new ideas around Indian security models are evolving from those industrial applications. And so that's where we're seeing some of this early technology be adopted. You, I'm sure you see a lot of cool stuff because you're working with companies that are working on the stuff that we'll see in a year. Are there any applications of embedded devices that have surprised you with stuff you just didn't expect to see? Yes, absolutely. I think the one that was most surprising to me and it really sort of points out the value of adding a service to your product. And was it was a partner of ours who invest, who put technology into a pill. And the purpose of the technology was to ensure that you took your medication on time and their service related to making sure that if that didn't happen on time, they were able to engage the patient and the result was better outcomes. So that type of model really started to change my thinking around how impactful connecting devices and building an application of service around it could be. That's probably the most surprising. Well, we've heard of adjustable device. I mean, do you see a large scale adoption of that? I'm sure that there are, I mean, anyone is going to have sort of a visual reaction to that idea of swallowing a chip, should they? We think there are great, great innovations around there. So, you know, I think, you know, we talked earlier about diversity. I think we're going to see a lot of innovation happening around the edges in these new industries as things become connected. But there are a lot of great, great opportunities there. I guess we swallow worse things than chips, don't we? So the final question, have you, what's your take on IBM impact and some of the customer conversations you've had here around the arm and internet of things? Well, what I think is really interesting, of course, arm sits at the middle of a hardware ecosystem, you know, the ecosystem that's making the connected products. And what is really apparent, you know, here today at Impact is where IBM sits in the broader sort of application and enterprise deployment. Yet the theme around how we deploy more quickly and easier, how we engage developers differently, it's a very common theme we're seeing across the spectrum. So I think that's exciting. And I think that that's the pace of innovation we're going to need for the internet of things to be successful. You see a lot of developers just here in the social lounge that have the Raspberry Pi tinkering around, building out stuff. I mean, it's packed, people love this stuff. Absolutely, absolutely. And the faster we can connect them, you know, through software initiatives, you know, straight into the application of the enterprise partners, the faster we'll see, you know, new products be deployed. Is hardware tinkering cool again? Oh, I think, yeah, I certainly think it is. Around the embed community, we've got, you know, hundreds of OEMs developing products. We have, you know, millions of visitors engaging. What would you tell a high school student today? Should you go into software or you should go into hardware development? Well, I think it's a good question. But what I want to say is around these sort of development environments, you have such an easy kit that allows you to mix and match components with hardware, have access to those software drivers that it's almost just like software and, you know, connecting the tools and writing applications. So I think this is a real change. So the long history of being a really geeky hardware engineer is changing with these types of initiatives. And getting the stuff, having access to the devices is key. It's like, it's build your own markets, great. Kerry, thanks so much for coming on theCUBE. We're here at IVM Impact in Las Vegas talking Internet of Things, talking about software development. This is the new maker movement. This is the homebrew club of the future. It's really great innovation. Thanks for joining us. This is theCUBE. We'll be right back with our next guest after this short break. Thank you.