 We'll call the meeting to order first on the agenda is to prove the agenda Anybody have anything they want to add to the agenda this evening? We could probably put you the next thing up after that would be public comment so you can probably add it into the public comment Yeah, that's fine we do another time the only thing I wanted to add I don't know exactly which it would fall under. I'm going to say it's personnel slash legal Executive order to talk about incident happen other than that Yeah, at the end at the end. Yeah Yeah, we'll put at the end Okay, all in favor I always have it very Now we'll open up to public comment. So if there's anything that's not the agenda for this evening we can have that brought up Just make sure if you have any comment, just make sure you stand and Say your name so everybody knows we go out for the record My husband I recently purchased As friend of Perkins, sorry No woods all the state on woodland road and recently my dog is hit by car and We own both sides of the road. We have our barns over here in a home over here People drive significantly fast on that road it hooks up with a four-class road So we're constantly getting traffic Going quite fast The first one who hit the dog was going quite fast So I called the town and asked them what the ceiling it was and they told me 50. I Have pictures of the road in my home and Where my grandchildren play? To where the road is It's not that wide. It's not my number 50 We go sand hill goes 25. So we're right up sand hill So it should be 25 It's out of ordinance is why it's I've spoken to a couple other people on the road and they were fine with it Okay, what do we have do you know what the it's not in the book that stretcher road for speed? Yeah, not every road in that ordinance is listed. Yeah Right, it's not so it's it falls back to the state speed limit, which would be 50 So what we can do is we're working with two rivers the local planning commission to do speed studies on some of the roads of town Because when you go to change the speed limit the state requires that you have data to support you Your reason for changing speed limits So we could put sure it's it. Well, it's just like this, but we can put your road on that list I can get some speed studies a little little gauge things As soon as I can get a monitor whenever they have it available, I guess I can't just automatically change the speed limit that I don't have the authority to do that So in the town doesn't give they could set the speed limit by ordinance, but they typically have to have data to support it so I mean we can look at the ordinance and look at adding that something that really has to be added in the first place that might be the most The best way to do it the quickest way to do it because it sounds like time is of the essence to you Speed down part of what you do Part of the engineering behind putting together of the proper speed is not necessarily what everybody wants it to be It's what traffic and safely that part of it anyway is what traffic is safely go at Yeah, right, but that's just a that's just an element to that. It's not just hey everybody wants to be 20 They they want to see some dad They want to see type with the road all those different elements all come together to what is considered a safe speed Yeah, but it sounds as though it needs to go down for sure It's just it's just defaulting to that speed limit because it's not one of the list of roads We get you know, you think it gets to be significantly a lot of traffic, right Going too fast, right even 35 is too fast, but I guess I'm not going to say so. I think We can look at Changing the speed limit is is an ordinance change because the speed is set by ordinance That's something that we could definitely look at I didn't see if I'll have to see if there's if we can do like an interim speed limit until we get data that's possible Sure sure go ahead And it's just because I think it just it's just by default It's not that there was never any real sense to it. It's just because it's not listed by default That's what it is Sure, so what what I have to do is we have to change the ordinance and the problem with an ordinance changes that Well, it just gets a little bit more time consuming, but it's something that can be done In this case it sounds as though it needs to be added to the ordinance because it was So Right that's where the traffic data comes into play because again part of it is Well, if you tell the study I mean some that's I know you're looking like what the heck It's big part of it's because the state gives us funding for these roads to maintain these roads It's class 3 and 2 and 1 roads they give us money for that So they want to have a little bit of their hand in the whole process of how things happen and part of the Changing of a roadway speed limit, even though it's by ordinance local ordinance most likely will require some Some data now if it does that and I can find a way to make it work about it We could do that just before with the ordinance. I mean unfortunately, there's you know Just like everything nowadays is so much red tape on doing anything and I mean it would be nice Yeah Unfortunately, I mean it I mean we could go out there tonight and put a sign that says 35 Let's say but if someone drives by that's in goes 55. We can't force that speed limit 35 Yeah, so I'm state has actually made recommendations and you're gonna hate to hear this The state has made recommendations in the past to not post speed limits on These kind of on the roads out rural roads to not post speed lines Because people will this is there is words not mine people will inherently drive the speed limit that is safe for them to drive Yeah Yeah, yeah, well, what was it? What's the road? Right, but I guess I understand I didn't understand I thought I could just come in here I did put up a sign Soul children at play sign. Yeah, that's fine. Okay. Yes. I will put up 10 of them And I will probably have to remove it in the winter. Yeah, I kind of figured that Well, I'll work on it. So what I can do unfortunately, you're just kind of there is bureaucracy and that's just the way things are So if I see what speed limits and safety concerns and things like that Different layers So if I get a no here, that's it what's that? So if I get like if I come back and you guys get back to me and you guys are just gonna tell me no And then I just walk away and say There's always I mean you have state representatives you could talk to you if you're not happy with your local Okay, there's others higher-ranking officials that you could talk to outside of the town I don't think the answer is gonna be no I think we're gonna logically find out what speed limit needs to be Again, I think what you're seeing is a speed limit just because it's by default Yeah, absolutely. So I'll work on it. Okay. I mean, I guess that's all I can ask for And again, there is a little time so bureaucracy we have to do but at the end of the day We'll work on and do it as quickly as I can because I know I can hear your voice. It's important You would get back to me Talk to me either way, you can always come talk to me if nothing if you're not seeing anything I'm the telemanager. Oh Yeah, sorry in your name Greg great Greg. Yes, okay But if you have any questions, are you you know, you don't see any action just email me or come in Okay, because if another dog or a child gets them we're just too honestly, we're just too late I agree, but I have to do the process that I have to Okay, so everybody So I'll work okay. All right. I can leave them be done. You're finished. Yeah Sorry, you guys have anything else I don't mean to take over. No, that's fine. Maybe we can just ask two rivers that Being being what's happened on that. No, that's okay But I'll yeah, they said they had like six of those speed things And but maybe being that there was an incident there and even that maybe they can make it a priority to come in Sure, I'll give it to rivers. They have the speed sensor things I do have woodland. Yes. Yes. All right. Thank you. Have a good evening Anything else public comment inquiry anything that's not on The agenda for this evening seeing none. We will move on to our first appointment Cecil washboard not here. So we will Must be Charles You guys are all here. So what we'll do is we'll we'll skip ahead to the 631 you guys are good with that And then Cecil shows up. We'll fit him in so 57 We put the property 1972 And I was cold at that time Carol slack that it was a camera And for a year and a half The town maintained it everything was fine. We had the camera washed out on 73 Jim Bratton. Well, Carol started Going up at that time. It was like Started backfilling all the records Got to our road our driveway Carol finished things like I probably said Jim Bratton who I guess had been a town manager at one time So it's not a town road so Okay So here we were taking for a profit say to the best of our knowledge the road Known as cure road is not a town road. There are not no records to indicate it is there was a town road yet Carol and John and other people said that I'm not avoidable my daughter is Part of the reason that this thing for years we've taken care of a road. We've died. We've not had a problem 79 I've got stage 4 melanoma cancer I'm getting ready to turn things over to the children Daughters and attorney They were up here. She looked at this and said that you know, she said to the best of their knowledge They don't have any records That indicate it is the town road it wasn't a town road. Jesus. You should have fought it. Well We lived in New Jersey. We came back and forth We love that as I said we've been here since ever until children all came up in the summers Went the 4-h half and everything else We've taken care of the road. We've done a good job, but then Suddenly We have another driveway Off both there coming off of the hard driveway where Greg says it's not really our driveway it's town 4 or whatever and But these people pay not I've paid to have a cloud and just had the The road done Resurface taking care of and yet these people They've got a couple cars trucks and everything but They don't see from their house, but as we come off our driveway, we do they got a junk car there They've got a propane tank right next to the driveway And it's beautiful. It's added every way, but it's all on us And it's just your favorites So I don't want to well, I will interrupt you but don't mind too. I just want to make sure I get the information right So there's another driveway that is off of your driveway. That is another residence or that's town another Junk car that's been there for years again, not a problem then Going up our driveway. There's this propane tank and their house is over on the other side and they have a road coming in off of The other driveway The one time that was put in further up Would have shown Cassidy, but showing us the music had never actually made the driveway happen The only time that he came up And asked us that I come through the area is when we had to I read storm green so And that's the point. I think that We're asking person going back A long time to what was presented to us It's not being correct The other the other part of it is At the end of the driveway coming down our driveway on the dark hill Right across the other side the town put it over It is totally washed away That area many years ago. There was a couple came down in back and then it was slightly Came down went off that road. Fortunately there were cars there were trucks in dirt there Right now there's nothing great. I believe you've been up there. I can look at it It's a disaster. It's something and we're here to talk about that. My son is a EMT speed controller over Shirdi Bush And he said it's just ridiculous coming down here in the morning with that ice He's afraid at some point he's going down. When you look at what I can find as far as records And the way that should be as far as that covert going further out It's going to wash the road So is this um Is this a class four road or class three? I don't know. I have already met out there We've got a plan to do this It's going to require restabilization with riprap to create a shoulder once the shoulder's completed We'll extend it all out. We're going to extend the culvert out about another 15 to 20 feet So the outfall is down the hill where it belongs And it gives us extra room to replace the shoulder And then we're talking about possibly a guard rail in the same location. So it's currently it's classified as class three It's a class three road. It's dark hill, isn't it? It's dark hill. Yeah, it's right at the end of there So as their driveway comes or the road comes down It's across the street right there and we have drainage that comes from up the hill And across the culvert and it goes through another culvert that discharges on the other side of the road That's too short. So it's a road in that bank And then the water comes down on the other side and it turns right there and it roads It just exacerbates the whole issue the culvert's too short. We've talked about extending the culvert coming in with riprap to to create a new uh structural structurally sound bass and then putting dirt on top of that to Increase the entire edge of the road all the way out. It's on a it's on a That's scheduled to be done whenever we can get to it. It'll be done this summer Because we know it's a big issue right through there and the reason why I ask if it's class three or four is there's a big difference between Two classifications of roads in Vermont. So a class four road. We don't do any maintenance to the road. So there's no winter plowing There's no add and gravel or grading. There's no doing ditching or Sometimes there's some put culvert work, but usually not Um where class three we we do You know some plowing and grading and things like that That's three And you know, we're concerned about our driveway coming down But dark hill has so much traffic and we we moved up here My wife could ride her all the way around the religion of the kids and then Never have a problem. But this other woman who talked about flying Up bar delt. I mean, it's ridiculous. Yeah It is what it is. To me They're destroying a bit That is not a pretty good road. So many people who have been up there Know what it's like. I wouldn't want to go out in spaces. They do and yet they do Well, it sounds like as far as The road goes the the town's portion of the road that will be All taken care of and brought up to the class three specifications. So It's on it. It's it's on it. There's not a defined schedule, but it's we've talked about you and I've talked about Alan and I have gone out and looked at it and we've got a game plan It's just a matter of getting it real similar to what we did out on a family bridge We lost the shoulder So we came in with some more to rock and that large rock locks together and allows us to kind of create a base And then we put dirt on top of it to extend the shoulder Same concept Yeah, yeah, that was a big project. So it sounds like we will be getting to it. Uh And and if for some reason do we have a timetable like before winter? It will be before winter. It has to be before Okay, so maybe if you don't see anything by October late october then give us a holler on that As far as the you had a couple of comments there regards to some Property that was at the bottom of your driveways I mean, that's not the town. There's nothing that we can do for you on that that would be up to you and How did you let them Put a driveway on our road The town wouldn't have granted access to that. It's a class four road. So it's a public road Um at the time that the driveways went in there were no permits We require a driveway permit now an access permit so that we can control a little bit site visibility and safety and things like that Then take care of the road I mean you had it both ways. You're either going to leave now This is like middle of the road. It's you know, but we but we would not require a permit on that road Because it's a class four road by state statute the town is not required to maintain a class four road You guys typically they're typically they're not as mighty We're going for a class three for that road, right? But I'm just saying right now the way it does doesn't either right now Right the the accesses that were granted or the accesses that are off of that road I'm guessing we're old enough that they probably were never permitted. There may not even have been a permit back then I don't know. How long ago did they go in? You know, they don't take care of anything you don't do anything. It's a freebie What's that? It's a freebie for them. Okay. Yeah, I guess I don't know I don't know Yeah But again, there's no records, right? So what we're asked you to do is take a look again You know, there are there's two active driveways on it and one that isn't Um, and again, my daughter said look, you know, we've got over a hundred acres my daughter said, you know She understands three roads would Mean that the town would then take over responsibility. She said sell some of the property. We don't want to sell the property We've enjoyed it. We want them to maintain and take care of the same way So that's that's our story So as far as the town's portion of it that will be scheduled to be done between now and later It sounds like unfortunately, I mean, it's probably not what you want to hear but the items that are on the Other two driveways or the other drive that you're talking about or won't be anything that we'll be able to enforce here No I I think it's again, it's gonna I believe we'll look into it But I believe it all come under the grandfather clause. It was there prior prior to So statutes says, um the minimum standards for a class three highway All right, highway negotiable under normal conditions all seasons of the year by a standard manufacturer pleasure car This would include but not be limited to sufficient base. I'm sorry sufficient surface embays Adequate drainage and sufficient width capable to provide a winter maintenance except that based on safety considerations For the traveling public municipal employees to select board by rule adopt blah blah after following the process Have the authority to determine whether a class three highway or section of a highway should be plowed and made negotiable during the winter So they give you sort of a set of standards nothing Nothing quantified, you know 50 foot wide this much base kind of thing but it gives you sort of some standards and then it also gives the board the authority to Determine if they decide they do not want to have it plowed in the winter time based on You know if the safety issue for the plow drivers But there's no turn around or whatever that the board can does have the authority to not plow the road but as far as the The standard which standard to me means the the physical requirements of the The roadway itself. It's a little they as to what that means. It just says like I said something that a normal standard manufacturer pleasure car can can negotiate has proved Adequate surface and base adequate drainage and sufficient width cable to provide winter maintenance. That's really about all these things You get a little less traffic on your roadway on that We do but I just paid a lot of money to have it done and we we've maintained it since 70 kids have taken care of it and done it but It's now coming back that you know again The kids are saying They look you should have been after them and pursued this your boarder has a town road it was maintained that way And there are no official things, you know to the best of their knowledge. It's not a town road Well, that's because there are no records of who's to say It is it was not a town road It was promised to us and sold us that way Unfortunately for john he passed away So I don't have him here carols and I didn't really know either Yeah, so it is currently classified as a class four So it is a town road. It's just a class four road So that's a little a little bit confusing because it's I don't know fact the end of they say it wasn't a road at all Or was it not a so it was a private driveway? That's that's where it's a little confusing. I don't know because they're saying it wasn't a road But we have it as a class four road I don't know when that ever if that have changed or 1970 yeah, not a not a town road Yeah, that's other stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Is it is it listed under our town? math it is listed as a class four road cure road Is that what we're talking about? Uh, yeah, they're they're driveway or that road. It is shown as a class four road Yeah, I don't necessarily know but has that name it might still have the same name But I'm not sure but it's shown as a class four road So then the question is whether or not we can look at Going to a class three road Yeah, what would take what would be involved in that? um I mean we can see what statue says Well, for example, is there a place for the public to run? Yes They painted it for years Now reclassification class class four to class three here we go um There is no statutory requirement that such okay says Upgrading is a common issue faced by the governing body as landowners often now locate homes in remote locations There's no statutory requirement that such requests be granted by the governing body However, there may be an issue of constitutional equal protection with municipality Can be shown to be Disparated in the treatment of similar highways So are there a bunch of similar highways that have the same identical conditions that we are considering class threes The governing body may grant the request but order that the petitioner bear the cost of the upgrade And you are the governing That's all it really says so without getting into statute if I don't have internet. I can't look at the actual state statue um It reads as though the the governing body Has the right to reclassify that road reading it to whatever the condition is that would classify it as a Make the town couple as a class three road that it meets certain conditions are certain That's upgraded to whatever condition it is so that we're comfortable taking it over for maintenance. Yes Any thoughts mo? I Think the only real condition the only real Um Concern you could have I would think would just be the width it's a little narrow through there I don't know if we could widen it out, but I've been up there. It's it's a good looking road. It is It's got adequately drainage. It's got adequately drainage. I mean, I haven't detailed it, but I've driven up it Uh, the only thing it really jumped out on me was just the width of the road. It wasn't it wasn't 30 foot wide 25 foot wide Uh, we I know at this time it was just when I went up and met with you guys I think it was in the fall And even then the condition was fine that wasn't really the issue was I just the only thing I saw that jumped out I can say it was just the width of the road. Yeah Did you yeah Right I Yeah, but again, I think the You know as far as the width and all that too, there's only a really one There are three driveways on it, but there's really only one house is directly off of it So I mean, I don't I don't think you're gonna run into a lot of people that you have to try to pass You know, it's a narrow road, but but that is the one thing I think that was a little worry So when I right first went up there wasn't the base or anything and the drainage it was more the width of the road And this was I think this was in the fall. I remember there being ditches on both sides It actually slopes across the road and down the hill And then it's a pretty a hill on the other side We've survived two and a half 100 year floods up there. The only problem has been Darned out or Slight kill it right. Yeah So I mean If we got into this a little further, I would definitely do a more detailed analysis of it and make sure that it's you know that it's a good road, but You know just the one thing so far like it that was kind of blatantly an issue I mean, I think I'm open to the idea I think the only thing being on the board I think the longest now Is is that we've kind of set the precedents in the other direction over the last few years with We've actually taken some roads that were class 3s that only we're servicing one person Let's say or two people and we put them down the class 4s. So I just You know would caution us when we're looking at it, you know You know, you'd be changing your The precedents back that you know, you could have others that would want their roads back to class 3s that we had Put to class 4s You know, we're also looking at some of our budgeting type areas where we've been looking to shore up budget so Class 3s obviously cost the town more money than class 4s do So but I don't think there's any anything wrong with doing a study and and seeing What the road's at currently what it might take to put it to that and and then we once we have better information We'd be able to make up By going to a 3 The town is able to get additional money from the state well Unfortunately, the way it works in vermont is you you would get money. So you would go from class 4s You get no money. So you would get money, right? But Realistically, it's it's like this the state will give you a 330 dollars to maintain that road for the year and it'll cost the town 5 grand, you know, I mean that that's the way that works You never made a hole on class 3 roads in in the state of vermont, but again, I don't think there's anything, you know You know, maybe if if we're if the road is in pristine condition where we don't have to do any work to it and could take it over that might not be That might be worth looking into, you know, so So if you know, I guess I mean it's up to us as a board to decide what we want to do If we want to have greg go in And look at it and figure out what the Cost of taking the road over might be How long is it? Is about a quarter mile I don't remember So it's just above the This is this is coming up Yeah, just give me the word on we'll go up and look at it I'll do a more detailed analysis of what what it looks like and what it needs if it needs anything And we'll do some measuring and come back with you what it looks like As far as I think the only thing that we don't have settled is as far as the other access points Of your neighbors. I don't know where that falls I would assume because it was done at a earlier time that there's really nothing that the town can do of that at this point I mean, obviously if it was today, they wanted to take care of me. I wouldn't have a problem right right now I'm paying for it to be taken care of Let me start Nope, I built the house in 79 and they started just before I built my house mid-seventh So we can do a little research and see if there's anything on the record Dick isn't an authority, but if it happened before that, I don't know if we'd have any Yeah, we can't go back and say hey, you need to do a curb gun permit because it was in here It's been in for 40 years, but um, you have any idea when those when those things show up. Do you remember? Okay They were given approval by the town In fact, we had a lot of things weren't given approval things just happened. Well, it's just like the fact, you know From birth going back a long time people say well, it wasn't town road wasn't the town road Right Uh, yeah Right Well at some point in the history of the world it was designated as a class 4 town road And I don't know when that happened, but that's what it currently is. It's a class 4 town road So, uh, it sounds as though they want me to kind of go up with Alan It will do some engineering and look around and see what we come back with Right, I know where it's at. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Thank you I guess did Cecil say anything that he wasn't coming tonight? No, I haven't really been okay We'll just you know, we'll keep going and he shows he shows Have uh, the all the rec committee members here that are coming or should we wait a little bit or Could you could you just um, just a little bit? Yeah, no problem We have another five or ten minutes where you guys come up anyway, so We'll move forward with the policy and procedure for grant management Greg wants to take us So this was uh, this came from a request that we had from the board actually, um And so trees put this together. This is a The policy for Standardizing how grants are are administered and written and handled in town We've had a little bit of issue where there were grants that were being Put together and applied for with with the town being the the primary beneficiary without the town really knowing what was going on So this is just a policy to to try to to try to remedy that issue and get Everybody on the same page as far as what the expectations and what the process looks like for grants for For all these these special committees that we have We don't want to deter them from doing it. We think it's pretty what they're doing But we need to have the the town and myself and and therese especially A little more involved in in what's happening so that we don't have a redundancy or or we're just aware of what's going on there's a lot of times there are Financial matches that we have to worry about too. So we want to make sure that we're budgeting appropriately for these these potential grants That's what this is about Though I read through it. I thought it was good. I mean we had been getting into the A little bit of a habit here in the last year of Committees or individuals kind of skipping some steps and you know the the original formal processes to Come before the board with the idea of the project Get get an approval from the board to go forward the project And then to reach out to the town administrators to help write and manage the The grants and that that should be the process and I think it's all laid out here. It looks good. I thought Everybody will get one if it's approved. Yes And just kind of making sure just like the you know select board the committees have different Turnover, you know, just making sure everybody kind of knows what the formal process is because you know You know it'd be a little disappointing if you let's say had an idea from a committee and you guys Started doing something and you got To almost the end and to find out that you know the select board didn't approve it You know the idea might not go anywhere Um or you lose the grant timing or something. So and I understand completely. Um, I just um Will um give you an example of some really quirky things. Um in uh the spring of 2015 or 2015 I heard about the marco foundation grant and um I called abby and asked simply to do it and um She said no, you have to go before the select board and I was on a time crunch And so I called Carl Russell and he said no, you can't do it and So I called the person in charge of that grant and said no, we can't do it and then a month later One select board person came to me and said congratulations. You've got the marco foundation grant Well, there is in this policy and procedures that we have here. It does it does give the the town manager The um the power to grant Um approvals of without going before the select board Sometimes people give us money that we didn't even apply for and that was a surprise. Yeah Yeah, well with this policy and with the the people that are in place We'll get a better handle on all the grants and make sure that the money's going to the that's really the idea here Is just to make sure that that the money's there when you need a match and that when you get the money It goes to where it's supposed to go Or if there's a town match that that has been it's been budgeted So I um I would entertain a motion to accept the policy and procedures grant management Policy form here that greg has laid out All in favor Yeah, you always have it. That's the one you want signed You guys are all ready? Yeah, all right So so we will turn six uh 645 so the we Asked for the rec committee to come in just kind of I guess in the board's eyes. We're just kind of Wanted to make sure that we're all on the same page And then also just kind of see where you guys are at in the process of everything Not just Well, I mean we were talking about the skate park, but also about the whole master plan that the voters had voted on A few years ago on kind of right so I had greg Bring the the plan that you guys are working on or the footprint of the facility right, um And maybe we can talk about Maybe we can talk about Maybe first if it makes sense, maybe we can just talk about the overall footprint kind of what Where we're at with the foot one direction You know, maybe what's going before what type of thing and then we can talk more Specifically about the skate park Where we're at in that process So if you guys are good with that Let me just an overview of where we're at Based on what the voters had weight in on What was the 2015 Before that I think It went to town meeting I think in 2014. Yeah. Yeah, okay 14. Yeah So if anybody that Approved there were three Plans So then um, and then the select board I forget which That I forget which year that Um, okay, uh Okay, so this is in the town report of june 30 of 2014 about the recreation committee had a busy and productive year in 2014 And two officials continued work toward Making a master plan for the recreation facility in reality The year this flip board recommended the plan c of the three miles developed by the vermont Architect to be used as a lot of concept so that That's the model that we have here And then at that time the town started to appropriate money into the What we call the recreation committee fund Or that might have been 15 when we started Okay, so March 1st 2011 the Voters approved a creation of a fund for a purpose of constructing and maintaining improvements to the town recreation facility that was in march of 2011 In august of 2011 the committee met with the select board at the recreation center and as of the august 16th recreation committee minutes See derpy was to be Contacted regarding creating creating the master plan for the recreation facility um, see derpy came in june of 2012 And this end the committee did in july of 2012 we took an ada training so that we could make sure that we were handed down compliance with any plan that We were going to come up with the select board in august of 2012 said put the bid out Put it out to bid In order he they didn't want to stick with steve derpy they asked us to put out a bid They asked us we did a community Survey in august of 2012 And so in the fall of 2012 The committee in the town picked the vermont's integrated architect in march of five 2013 the voters approved $5,000 to go For the recreation facility improvements um in march 4th 2014 the town approved $12,000 for the recreation facility improvements In 2015 there was no Vote or no approval, but looking at the town report. I don't know why it's in the budget But there is in the town report that it was budgeted 15,000 in that fund so in the fall of 2015 the poolhouse construction was put out to bid um, and then um And then that what that they settled on a bid they started construction in the fall of 2015 um and then so then Then the committee started thinking about the skateboard park um in february 10th committee february 10th 2016 committee minutes It says that teacher Very nice teacher finley will be spokesperson to ask for $30,000 For the fund and the committee will get support from kids that that are asking for a skateboard park And and then March 1st 2016 voters Approved 20,000 to be added to the 10,000 Because I thought that we went before The board and in the fall of 2015 and wanted to ask for 30,000 and my recollection was That bill hall said well, we could put in 10,000 But you have to ask the voters for the extra 20,000. So that's what we did And then march 7th, 2017 We um Wanted to we wanted 40,000 And so we put in regular budget of 10 and asked the voters to increase it to 40,000 And then So that is The timeline on Doing the money for the skateboard park. Okay Thank you I know some questions that have been Before we get to the skateboard park with the model itself is I guess some of the questions i've been fielding anyways now that Like I think a combination of The pool house has been done And I won't say we're spinning our wheels because Things take time to to do things but there's been a period of time where we have funds But nothing is being built. I guess we'll call it and we've been spending a lot of time with the skateboard park We'll design and redesigning looking for money these different things But I guess some of the comments that I've been fielding right now has been You know like we talked about like a skating place over there, you know, could that be uh Um That on the plan that was set for ice skating in the winter time Could that also be like a a basketball court so that you can play basketball in the summer and skate in the winter It'd be probably pretty well Out of all the projects we have probably pretty inexpensive and one you could just kind of roll out there There's been also talking to a community about the tennis courts and when when might One or two or whatever come And then anything else with the green space over there Because all all they're hearing right now is just about a skate park And you know, there's we're just still on this design stage of of it So I didn't know where the committee was that in regards to I've been fielding questions granted, you know, they don't go to the committees and they don't Go to hear all that but you know, where are we at with some of the other projects? I'll call them like maybe the lower hanging fruit that might be able to get taken care of quicker Well, um You know, well, I I understand Because it's it's even been frustrating for us because basically I forget what year that We we went to the board with designs from a Michael Parker a verminer who was done skateboard parks in Newport and Lebedon New Hampshire a new port for mine in Lebedon, New Hampshire and the board asked and the reason why we did that is we wanted to go for the Tom Tommy Hawk Tony Hawk Grant and so So the the board asked us to to tweet stuff and we were doing that and then and then all of a sudden um Corey Stearns who was been the lead person on this Had um Information from spawn ranch in California somebody that would do a better job So he went before the select board and asked that permission for that designer um To come and do a workshop that workshop was in october 2017 october 11 2017 and he got permission Because the designer in order to come would have to we'd have to pay $5,000 for him just to come and do the workshop so The select board gave Corey and the committee permission to come have that designer from california come do the workshop and um That's what we have been working with and the frustration has been that the the um design that The design for the um Skateboard part that was given to us in december 2017 Um Oh, here it is These are the designs That we were given by The designer in december because he came and did the workshop by our input in october 2017 and so He submitted those designs to us in december of 2017 Now we had people by that time because of the workshop we had more people get involved um We have with then with the committee people that like skateboarding people that had expertise on on it and um and kids that wanted third input To to the design and so we came up with people being upset or not liking the fact that The wall that wall that the evidence um Constructed in his design We felt that that wasn't very You can This this wall right here that at least talking about right here because of the placement of Where the skate park was put in the initial design Vince from spawn ranch felt that this wall was necessary in order for elevation purposes in order to support that hill And support the skate park Uh, I don't know the all the end. I'm not an engineer. So I don't understand all of that but But when we met with vince Um, a lot of us were very frustrated that a lot of our hard earned money was going to be spent on this retaining wall per se that he felt the kids could skate but in Talking with people who are skaters and the young people that came and were helping us That was not the design that At that meeting in october that a lot of people had expressed interest in Elements of the skate park that the kids would really enjoy from all ages. I mean that was the one thing that I had Stressed and we had stressed over and over and over again that we want this to be a skate park That three-year-olds can toggle on to and have fun with But people who are more skilled like shane and and my son and other people who have skated A long time could also enjoy and so At that meeting there was a lot of discussion With vince about well, we don't like this wall And vince felt convinced that we needed the wall, correct? He's he's still at the mind that we need the wall if we Keep the skate park at the location that it's it's intended to be Right. Um, I I think that's it's not that big a deal. We can we can adapt the terrain We can put a ledge there instead of instead of a lot of transition and a lot of concrete Um, we have a lot of flexibility in some of these areas our biggest concern with West coast guy designing an east coast skate park is He doesn't necessarily represent the interests of the locals We've got four local skaters and i'm a lifetime being an excerpt And we can come up with a pretty good idea of the layout Convey it to this guy who really understands all the subtleties of skate park design And then he can whip up a nice package that's clean and tight and we can execute Within a budget, I would I was about to say the the biggest ticket that we need to to lock in on is the budget We're looking at a matching funds grant potentially and we'll we'll submit all the town paperwork for this new process that was just proposed Budget is the biggest driver here It affects the square footage it affects the type of terrain and features and we can integrate Um, so the extent to which we can Start honing in on that information That's when it's mature Just to commit to a footprint and they're end in the terrain and then all the line items that go with Any park of any size but until that point it's all just you know Grasping and straws. I think I think the largest concern that I've heard And I wasn't really Honestly paying attention to the process maybe as close as I should be I guess what what has been pointed out to me by some others is that Is is that we voted on the initial plan for the facility The the and it's I mean obviously budget You know, we we obviously have a budget too But I think the greatest concern other than money right now is the footprint And the footprint what was if you take the dimensions that was on what was voted on it's about 1700 square feet That was the that was the plan And then back in 2016 I think is when we first started this We had the we had the three options the a b and c options which You know c being the lowest option at 4200 square feet With a cost somewhere around 90 000 To as high as option a which was 5800 square feet at 116 000 Of course these funds at that point were based upon You had 30 000 that were currently available to the rec committee in the fund There was the 40 000 that you talked about that was granted by the taxpayers There was another 25 000 which was part of the tony hawk grant which only got five of the 20 Right And then there was the fundraiser So if you take the tony hawk money out of it If you what's that the love background we got the love background. Okay. How much was that? Thousand so so if you take the take the differences out you're looking at a proposed budget of around 80 000 Based on what was looked at prior the concern that I have Um, especially after it's been brought to my attention with the other things that people want to see at the facility is that Is that the The footprint has gone from 1700 square feet and probably 1700 square feet really wasn't enough square footage to really actually have something Constructible and I understand that And then it went from 4200 square feet To 5800 square feet To 7200 square feet now, you know, and it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger And I don't think that the intent was to have a I think the intent was to have a part that everybody could enjoy and would be one of several amenities of the rec facility not necessarily just be a Part that people from around are going to come and skate there um, so it's I think right now the way I see it is Even if tony him tony hawk himself walked in the door tonight and said here's half a million dollars go build a nice park in bevel I don't think the taxpayers of bevel want to see a 10 000 square foot facility That's where i'm at or that's that's the questions I've been fielding and the concerns is But at the same time we're kind of We want progress, you know, we want to see something built So there's a combination of the budget constraints, which Which you know based on the comparisons that we had here was around 80 000 Plus or minus whatever you get on top of that But it's staying inside kind of that a footprint that is reasonable over there that's going to keep green space um, so And I guess that's kind of where our question is to you guys is You know, it sounds like the project's getting really big and we're a little concerned on that Not just on the budget end of things on just the other stuff Was shoot for the moon And come up with a footprint that we thought was absolutely amazing And have you guys make us make it smaller So we came up with about 9600 square feet There's 120 feet by 80 feet And um, that's not going to fit in the space exactly We'd have to knock off a corner through the swing set and stuff But we wanted to shoot for the moon and then be whittled down as needed So go ahead and talk shop to us and let us know, you know, a ceiling number that the town might be comfortable with I mean, I I will just throw my two cents and then the board, you know We'll throw theirs as well. I know Mo will But I mean just kind of looking at the different proposals that have come in over the time And seeing where we started at where we're at now It it seems like a facility over there somewhere in the four to five thousand square foot would be reasonably adequate for keeping green space and And the other amenities there now. I don't know what you can build in four to five thousand square feet But it but even if it's four or five thousand square feet, that's three times what the taxpayers had saw It being, you know, it might be half of what we're thinking the moon is But it it's considerably larger than the beginning footprint. I mean, that's kind of my Obviously we want to come in in budget. So in budget would be So based on your in budget, you have seventy thousand dollars worth of funds available to you Yeah Now whatever tony hawk gave you and whatever your fundraiser was and whatever The other grant was that that would be your budget to build on If if I see the numbers correctly Yeah, and we want to there's a land water conservation fund that we had and found out about us here and The pre application is Is coming out in august and we would like to um applied for that and greg said that he would help us with that and um, and basically it's it's it would It would be a matching thing. So our seventy thousand Hopefully we would get seventy thousand from that from them And then we could build the park. I know when you were talking with parker That was the the initial person that was building that parker like around a five thousand square foot Which was kind of like plan B. It was the middle plan Um, that was somewhere around a hundred thousand dollars budget as well. Yeah, granted whatever Committees you have inside the skate park will probably you know make your budget more or less But that was kind of what we were looking at before Um, I think the longer we wait more expensive materials become We had talked at our last red committee meeting Um, the greg was at about You know I'm I'm a pool director. So I'm there every day now. I I've watched the kids. I see where they play Um, you know, my kids grew up at the pool. They grew up doing the water slide in the summer Slaying there in the winter. It's I mean really the only hill in Bethel Um, but it's a fun hill in the winter. Um, and so we we were throwing around We've been throwing around the idea of okay Where can we save a lot of money? Perhaps and and the thought was If we move if we could Understanding that the master plan had been voted on by the um townspeople and respecting that process But is there anything that says that we can't tweak You know where the things maybe are so just I'm a very visual person. So I'm sorry, but We were talking, you know, is there any chance that we could move that skate park even further down the hill And more, you know in this area here Or even down here moving Parts a little bit and moving the skate park there One you can save a lot of money because we wouldn't have to Build a retaining wall person To it would secure that hill, which is really the play place of children Um during the day, they love to play in this whole area where the gene the existing jungle gym is and the hill So if we even turned that skate park And joded it down this way or moved it down there is that feasible Without having to take it back to the townspeople and and asking for their permission To to move the skate park a little bit. I I think looking at your layouts Based on the well, I'm just saying based on the The latest skate park Diagram they had at 7200 square feet for the skate park I mean, wherever you put that skate park, you're gonna run out of green space to if you want to preserve the hill, you know, I mean Um, you're gonna have to do some at that point. You're gonna have to do something either You're gonna have to do one tennis court rather than two or you know, something's gonna have to give um To do that. I mean I I personally The the actual layout of where you want to put the pieces on the land I I really don't have a huge concern on that personally. I think it's just Conserving the square footage of green space that people want to be able to use And not just you know, people want to be able to go out there and have the access to grass rather than just Concrete concrete pavement, you know And I think that's the concern. I mean if you move the skate park, I don't know on to the upper corner I don't think would be a deal breaker. I think it's just kind of Then it gets into The budding neighbors Yeah, so it then so this is a site plan. This is an approved site plan if we're talking zoning talk here and and Changing the I've already looked into this like I told you I would and it would require a site plan amendment Which means so what has happened is you're taking they gave you three options with all the same elements just in different positions So because this was voted on with these elements in the in the location that they're at the The general location is set, but if you move something substantially like to a whole different area It changes the whole dynamic of the of the site plan So then it has to go into a site plan amendment, which means a new map Which is not a big deal, but the big part is it's another public meeting It's a public process the entire site plan process is a public process It would have to go to drb And then it would be a public hearing on the site plan So I was hoping that we could if it was inconsequential If it was minor enough to move it it wouldn't require it We could just do it in-house But everything I've read so far and I haven't been able to find another way to do it Says that it has to go to a site plan amendment because it's a substantial change to the plan So there is that piece also How long I know we talked about this and I honestly don't remember how long would that process take? I'm against that process because it just opens a can of worms. I'd rather shrink the skateboard part To fit the flip frame that we have Yeah, if to go back to your question the process so we go to the drb So we have to schedule a hearing with the drb And in the meantime we would warn that so we're talking probably the entire process is probably two months Depending on how what sort of probably on that two public meetings because it's a major right Yeah, it's a site plan amendment. So it's a minor sub debate. It's a minor. It's a it's a minor It's a minor change in hearing. So again, I'm just kind of shooting a little bit off the hip here, but I don't want to lose the tony hop money Just because we're stressing this out and taking up more time. We have a time frame for some of this stuff And and that's another ellie. When does that have to be done? Tony So the process is probably going to take any of them two to three months Depending upon what sort of feedback we get from the public that always throws a wrench You're gonna I mean a lot of comments that I've heard are how come we're doing is get part I mean, it's back to that discussion because of the time lapse that has happened And going through the drb and having the hearing and whatnot will probably open up that That can't have worked Yes, it would open up I think just the toughest thing is being that I mean, it looks spacious on the diagram we have there, but we also have to remember that diagram shows 1700 square feet of skate park now You know, even based on what was proposed to us two years ago here You know, that's skate park had two and a half times the size of it already, you know, and it's you know It went from this to that So, I mean, even if you get moving pieces around If you move it up by the tenscourts, even if you could do it while the tenscourts are gonna go somewhere, right? And I don't think there's enough room to fit everything now because then then the tennis courts would be fighting with the The hill the bank and you know, I don't you know how that works. So I mean, I guess I guess our thing is Or my personal opinion is it's the rec committee's Design process of you know, as long as we stay within the The footpath of what we had presented to us And it just seems like each time it's getting bigger and bigger and bigger And even if we had the money or the money was given to us, I don't think necessarily that we're we're ready to move forward with $200,000 $10,000 square foot skate park, you know, I think we'd be really happy to see $15,000 basketball court that we could turn into a skating rink. I mean, I really do I mean, that's just like really things that could be done really fast I mean, I can tell you every kid that I see come down by the pool Or between the pool and the school or dribble in a basketball every single one of them I mean, there's a lot of them and I don't I think the skate park is a great idea. I just I think the more time we invest on designing this it's getting bigger And then all we're gonna end up doing is saying you gotta cut that thing in half and you're gonna have to redesign it back down so Uh, his square foot cost estimate for us was $41 of square foot for reference So that's about more than twice That's almost twice what was presented to us You know, which I guess is okay if you're if you're absorbing that with grants That you know, I'm sure that's fine as long as we keep that That was one of the reasons our local skaters had an issue with the other guy who's potentially going to be designing the park They had some workmanship issues that like no that you can't have a park with this and this and this kind of defect And that was what led Corey to look look elsewhere Um, would it be an issue if we did a little bit of an L just around the near corner of the tennis court that be within maybe the spirit of the design or I'd have to look I could do my best to say yes, you know, because if we really need just to skate up that end of it I would say my gut says yeah I think it's in the spirits in a general location that was presented to the voters But I'd have to verify that should but right now I would say most likely that would could probably as long as the board And that gets us away from the most deep terrain that seems to be Um, I mean I'm just doing quick math. I mean you're looking at what was presented to us Prior the 7200 square foot. I mean at 41 dollars square foot you're at almost $300,000 for skate park And even even if you look at the Square footages that were presented to us Through when parker was designing it The initial ones i'll call You know that were between 4200 and 5800 square feet. I mean, that's uh You know, that's 170 to 225 thousand dollars skate park and I you know You know, I think we're looking at that's probably twice the size of what it should be Both budget and you know Well, we've also got the concept that was approved by the voters Yeah, and if you drastically We're gonna triple the size of that they're an awful keeping in the spirit of What they envisioned And just a note on that that proposed budget option comparison where it's got the the total cost and the cost per square foot There's a piece in there that's not shown. It's the in kind from the town There's a 25 thousand dollar deduction of the town doing the work with volunteers and themselves So that number is a little bit deflated Right Just just trying to make the budget make a little more sense that there's no There's a there's a significant amount that are that's not shown there. That would be the actual Structure cost otherwise When we spoke with vince a couple months ago, he said we've got um 41 is like a baseline square foot cost for people who don't want to look at all the all the line items And then he said as you can whittle down the in kind and get a lot of Benefit from local folks. You can get down to like around 30 bucks a square foot But if there's no in kind you probably ought to inflate the number to 50 bucks a square So I have a Do you each want to copy or That's the list to be The second page shows a few different square foot footprint And the Square foot cost Well, I mean I would I still can't I still keep you 40,000 conservatively I mean I would I guess my opinion talking to board members is is that the budget The budget that has been presented and approved by the taxpayers Through Through the rec committee funds over the years has been 70,000 is what they have appropriated 70,000 plus there's tony dot grant and there's other fundraisers and grants that you've done and maybe there's Um, you know a matching grant or something that can offset some of that So I think you know, I think they really get a look at 70,000 as 70,000 plus whatever you can bring in as their budget And I mean I I mean based on this I really Just looking at the green space and stuff. I mean, I think you're really gotta be looking in that 4,000 square foot area I mean it might not be the park that everybody you know from Other towns around wants, but it you know, I just if we get too bigger. I think we're just gonna have Well one I think it's just gonna take us longer to get the thing designed and built And again, I you know the longer it stays out there the less momentum it's you know, you'll lose the momentum with people on the And there's so I mean, I don't so I guess budget wise It's really kind of hard for us to tell you exactly what your budget is I can tell you at the town level the budget from what I see is 70,000 now Whatever else you guys have for matching grants or Donations would be on top of the 70 But we really also I would say if we go over 4,000 square feet that we probably ought to be Representing it to the voters to say do you want to go to a 7,200 square foot place? You know, it wouldn't be fair for them to you know They chose the model that shows 1700 square foot You know and right now we're five times that size You really jumped to 4,000 No, that's twice, you know more than twice Is is 5000 Look at it. Look at it for a medium size house I mean that's Yeah, can I ask any questions? The uh the park you're talking about in Levin. I think I know where it is. How many square feet is that? So I can I remember so I can get in my mind What is done in a certain size? That would be I would say that one down there is in the 5000 square foot area. I don't want to say it's it's not a huge one It's a big I think it's bigger than that. It's very square It's just really good I mean, I know the the biggest kickback that you're gonna have from the voters right now is green space And preserving green space down there. Well in all fairness, too. I mean I don't see square footage and so And I don't even remember voting on this honestly But to me I you know, you see that drawing and you think oh wow. Yeah, I mean We've got all this green space even if we put all these beautiful things on a piece of property In all fairness That's not a Scale drawing in terms of what I need to see in order to say. Oh, yeah, that all would fit there. That makes perfect sense It's not until I'm over there walking it and you know when we were over there We drank last week walking it and saying, okay This is pacing it out. This would be this size. This would be this size You could actually if if we did tweak it Move it just a little bit You would save that hill and I think that people understood That by moving it just a little bit would save that hill that everyone loves so much I don't think people would object to to to moving it just a little bit I mean great pace out various I mean based on what what is current well, I don't know Based on the most current dimensions that we had the 7200 square feet I mean This was 17 the 7200 is is this So you lose you lose all this green space that's around the part there, you know, so you're gonna From what I saw in the drive It comes out like this Yeah, that's so you lose you lose the green spaces here in the hill Yeah, you know, so that's not point something has to be done right this has to change now this is uh, you know, this is drawn to scale right With what we have over there, but it's so hard to see because it still looks like there's so much green space But I think that's the fear is no matter what No matter what the price is or or how much You know, even if you had a huge in-kind donation Is You know going from something that has You know a lot of green space to something that's like fit right in there to the maximum I think that's the challenge. I mean, I I just So Greg, how do you go from 17 to I don't know 48 5,000 whatever Does that trigger an amendment to leave? I love this. I don't I don't know yet. I'll have to look at the code and we'll have to look at how the language is written So 5,000 square feet is that what you're saying? I'll just tell me where just yeah, you know, if we're going to make a jump that triples the size of Most triples the size of what's totally true is that we need right back to permanent issues That's that's the thing I think about we're taking, you know, originally it was a certain size about Three times that size of two and a half times that size um Which which I mean if you we as a group Which right now even if you built say the 7,000 square foot one over there, right? It's going to look like you have a lot of green space left But once you start building the others that you haven't talked about yet the tennis courts You know the skating rink and that then all of a sudden you're going to have like a A complex there with you know, there's not going to be any room to do anything else other than Play tennis skate those women, you know, there won't be like You know kids play or you know sliding whatever, you know, you're going to run into all those issues I wonder if because this has been kind of a long process it might be in it Because it has been kind of a lengthy process and it's probably one that's going to continue on a little bit longer I mean, I really can't see this You know coming this year um You know another thing maybe to consider just so that looks like things are progressing over the areas Is maybe start thinking on the other project, you know, something simple like if you could put together that That winter skate area. I mean that's something that probably doesn't cost a lot of money And it's something you can show the taxpayers looks like more is being done You know, well, we are doing We are doing another project in the process. We're doing the high pain and and trails So we are we are Working on another project at the same time to show the so that so we have Hiking and biking trails that are connecting the school to the rec center And we're we're doing that in the process of working on what I guess yes, you're right And I think what I was talking about was like the the true plan So we are working and that was Hiking trails is part of the master plan originally too. That was part of the survey. So we are working on that And we were working with the school we're working with We we worked with Dennis wood and carol ketchup to get easements to be able to do that And that that was um, also part of the community survey and that people wanted hiking So we're working on that part too So what do we think and board wise? Um Size slash budget Something that they can go back on and I mean, I just would hate to waste Any extra time that we need to Um And and I wanted to get this done two years ago, but um, and just so you know that the The land water conservancy fund the pre application is in august Um, we would be rewarded if we if we get the money It would be rewarded to us in june of 2019 So that so my thought process is Okay Then we can build a skate park in end of august of 2019 Very good, I based off a little area here This is 1700 From that corner back there to about the right just just for a visual frame of reference Yeah, how much that helps you or not? It actually helps me And we're I mean we're currently talking well The board is currently talking, you know for 4 to 5 000 square feet, which would be You know two and a half times that which But even that that's considerable space, right? And right now where the rec committee stands, you know, you're looking at 7200 plus So that I mean that's a that's a big That's a lot of real estate over there. So yeah, and really I mean I want to respect all the work that Shane and these young kids and guys have done You know, I don't really think that vince really captured what we wanted when he came and met with us that night and Shane Very Gentrously said well, I'll join the committee. We can work on this So to respect all the work he's done You know, I would love to see it a little bit bigger than the original footprint, but Now that I'm over there working every day and I see where the kids play and I see You know how much space we use for our family fun nights and stuff I don't want it ginormous. Um, and I really would like to get it built because I would like to get the kids off the street through our skate parking on the streets on saturday and sunday mornings really early and in the evenings and I would like to get them off the street and get more teenagers and kids over at the pool So We all I think are in agreement. We really want to get this moving and get this done right So what do you think about doing like, um You know keep it keep it around 4 000 square feet, which is more than twice the original size. So it's more than twice than Then what was just paced off here And you know their budget is 70 000 plus plus any Well, if you you said 3 000 square feet and 40 dollars and square foot Oh, well, they right Well, they might have to adjust their square their square footage based on their budget, you know a combination of budget and square footage I don't think I think we should wait Just a little while to make sure that we can do this not not get into a Two six month process with or anything I mean greg needs to look at some zoning or whatever Codes and say, okay, if you alter it at all You got to do this or you can alter it this much or you can move it this much I think we need to I need to know those things But as far as their planning, I agree, you know, I think 4 000 feet is more than sufficient But we should probably supply them with some sort of maximum number, you know And if we can't do it based on permitting, then they'll have to follow the constraints of the permits What's that we tentatively say that 5k is the ceiling Just so like we know we're not building anything bigger than that That that helps us whittle down our dreams a little bit so that we're not building a giant parking At a certain point here the taxpayers agreed to 1700 square feet and if up all of a sudden they see it 4 000 5 000 square foot, you know, they're going to say, huh, that's not what we agreed to I mean I Mean it's it's kind of a combination of both it's not just square footage Obviously, you guys would have to play with You know, I mean even if we granted you 5 000 square feet, maybe you can only afford 3 000. I mean we get all done So there's there's going to be that trade-off of acreage versus cost We've got a certain amount of summer time for To do their work and if they're going to be I see one figure in here It's been 3-4 weeks doing that 12 weeks, 3 months, 3 months out of our 3 month summer No, we'd have to if we wouldn't be able to do that These I don't know any high items, but the more of them that can be The lower swear for cost Well, yeah, but it still cost the town The money because we're paying A job Oh, I understand that but There's more than just town personnel If you're quick like that Although it's kind of quick But if we're paying rent it So I'm going to put the rental place through that period of time These costs don't include the bedding material Either bedding material, trucking, or labor supply by the town And are most of the grants our match incoming? It depends on the grant It depends on the grant Not all grants are in-kind matches, but The one that we want to apply for in August is It is a matching one For the taxpayers to come up with that number Well, yeah So if you have 70, they can be 70 Yeah, we have the 70, so we want the grant as a match of some Right, but not all Right But you're looking at If you did the You have 70 and you got the grant for 70 more Plus plus what you have On the books currently, I mean that puts you around 3,800 square feet Based on $41 a square foot cost now That could be a little bit higher if we decide that it's not worth the cruise to Be sitting there for multiple weeks to to build that So I mean that's 30. I mean that there is 3,800 square feet Which that is You know just about twice the size of the original Right so at that point they're within they're within the voter's budget But they're outside the scope of the A lot of these numbers also have not been tuned for our size part. This is probably for the Oh, I guess about 20,000 square foot part So not everything has been tuned for us. This was some other town's project At some other town's size I mean, it's kind of a tricky one because we're we're feeding, you know, I'm fielding questions on When people don't see anything going on and they hear a lot of different things, you know The paranoia, you know sets in and it's the oh my god I can't believe that they're spending 200,000 dollars to skate park. I'm like, well, I haven't heard that You know, but those are the things that are going around the community or or the skate park So 10,000 square foot skate park. We can't do that. You know, so those are the things that are going through people's heads right now Um And I so there's kind of like both somebody stood up at town meeting and asked about Last year and said, oh, we gave you 40,000 last year. Where is our skate park? So I do understand I think the tough position that we're in as a board is You know, we are here to help direct the management of the town as well as Fulfill the taxpayers interests um, the taxpayers interest was stated well It's a little convoluted because originally the taxpayers had Voted for this plan, which has 1700 square feet Um 1700 square feet and they gave you 30,000 dollars to do it with initially But then quarry went and had his Member quarry stood up two years ago at town meeting day and talked about This proposal, which is the one we have in front of us was the a b and c one And it all depended on tony hawk, which that was Between 4200 square feet and 5800 square feet But the assumption that was probably going to be in the 42 to 4700 based on the budget and then There was there wasn't really a vote. There wasn't a vote like yeah, let's go bigger But the taxpayers did vote in the extra funds that year That gave you up to 70. So it's kind of a You know In a way to me that the taxpayers are saying we're okay. We've given you 70 000 and oh by the way 42 to 4700 square feet. That's kind of the way I take it There was no official vote on that other than they approved the extra line item so I guess that's the way I see it I see 42 to 4700 square feet with a budget of 70 000. What do you what do you think pa? I think that's a lot of work I closer down to the You know, obviously you can't you know, not going to be able to do what you want to do with 1700 square feet Have an ineffective use by professionals Guys that skate on a regular basis But I think if you get over 4000 It's going to require a member of some kind to the plan the most positive You need to find that out and that may trigger public meetings and more discussion and Things like that because the actual vote The only real vote that the talents people voted on was that even right there technically They voted money, but they have it's tough because they voted for extra money too after seeing And this by far is not my opinion But this is the way I see the taxpayers over the two terms is The first time around they did vote on the on the footpath, you know the footprint over there And we didn't really have a budget at that time, you know, we were appropriating money, you know so we voted on a footprint and then And in two years ago Corey went before to talk about This is the plan And that's why we need the extra 30 on top of the 10 So it gave you so then they kind of voted on a budget But not necessarily the upgraded footprint, you know, it's so Yeah, and then you voted on 30s out So it's really it's really tight. I mean I The bigger you make it Well, I mean anything anything greater than 1700 you're losing your footprint somewhere else What do you think Dave Look at the picture. I don't And then look at 1700 feet and in my mind I've thought about seeing skate parks Uh, it doesn't all fit I mean, I I don't think 1700 feet is big enough to have a I mean, it works great for the three to five to 10 year olds Maybe but for the in the next level 1700 feet isn't going to cut it But Where to put it becomes I mean I just I guess I would like to see A different size On this picture Well, they had them Yeah, it's kind of Where they have it drawn there. I don't know if it's hard to tell but this is the new this is the new dimensions of it Kind of hard to see Yeah, that's like that's like the current this was original this right here. This is current and that's 7200 feet Yeah So it takes so you lose all this green space here Now on paper, it doesn't seem like a lot, but when you got there and walk it, that's quite a bit Oh, yeah, I know I've been over there But then again at 70 that's 72 if you cut that in half at 35 would you be twice what we what they voted on? um I have a question Maybe at the conclusion of this meeting we say our least tentative ceiling is 47 Different tonight as far as physical footprint I don't think we could I don't know it seems like Greg you need to do a little digging before you Yeah, I'm looking at it right now and I'm not seeing a Any specific language it says I eat either way honestly nothing that can be interpreted at all. It's a conditional use approval Which requires a site plan I assume that we went through that process before I don't know. Maybe that's what was voted on at the town meeting When they said which one do you like? I don't I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if this plan has ever had site plan approval I don't know I'll have to look at it My guess is anything you build over there. You're gonna have to make amendments to your permit Well, I don't know if we have a permit. That's what I'm saying. I don't know Well, we did step over the right for some of us Okay, so I went through a whole public conditional use permit. It's a whole conditional use Hearing should be all that that you had have gone through That's what generated the site plan to begin with. So I don't see anything in the standards in the code that specifically says There's a I don't know a variance or an area that you know, you can go larger or smaller or whatever There's no language like that that talks about the The intense or the spirit of the the approval. I don't see anything about that It does talk about when it is required And it says no permit shall be issued by administrative officer for site development related to a conditional use Until a developer view board grants site plan approval But it doesn't talk about An amendment to the site plan Well, some of this Yeah Could have been I'll have to look at I just don't know I don't I don't know you said that Do you remember when they had all these hearings and all this from the when did anybody at any time go That did the drb and I'll have to check do you worry coming with because it had to we should have gone through the development review Yeah, I'm not sure for a conditional use and If it had then they would have given us their their findings Yeah, and that would be a that would allow for Most likely at a conditional use permit Now they might have gotten away with just doing it at use by right if the zoning allows for it But it still would require a site plan approval And that's the part I need to find out The way I'm reading the our code a site plan approval is a site plan approval. You have to have one before the other so Um, I think I would have to really speak with the development review board on that question as to what And how much is enough of a change To create essentially a new site plan answer and the code doesn't specifically give me a real answer either I mean, I would like to why don't we for let me It's good to spend some extra time on this because we really need to get the project Yeah, moving in a positive direction You know and we don't want you to spend any more time than you have to Um building designing To just have to redesign and all that stuff because it costs money. It's a lot of time Why don't we why don't we find out the questions in regards to the site itself? Yeah, the site plan see if there's anything that's going to limit us to Permitting on that site if we go offside that footprint. What do we have to do if anything? That'll also give the board members some time to really digest Take take a walk over there to see what 4,700 square feet or 4,000 square feet looks like over there And it'll also give time to have our other board member here as well So our next meeting Would be august 13 So we want to put that I'd like to put it back on Yeah, I'll I'll get an agenda for the 13th as a follow-up I'll get with the d rb And I would do some research to see what what the conditions were what the language was in one after the original approval of the site plan They may have just put a condition that you know site plan is what it is. Are there any changes that this has to happen? I don't know I'll have to look and see what the d rb came back with And look for any minutes from those discussions that were had during those processes So this this is when it means a curve ball for us It does drop in half, but that means we just don't have to sweat Where the money's going to come from due to those five square feet So if this really does help us like that But I mean even like we're talking about even at What was it 38 to get to the budget? You know, I got to look at it in two ways, but to get out of budget Budget wise it's saying if you get that matching grant budget wise you're at 3,800 square feet based on $41 a square foot, which that could mean be higher, you know So I mean you may not even even if we approved to go out you might not even be able to build that I mean you might not have enough capital to do that So Well, I will find out the process first of all And what what sort of ramifications in the large or moving has on the entire process I'll come back to you at the next meeting with that You know what would be really cool if we could do Maybe if If you could go out there, maybe like four grades four grade stakes with some ribbon and kind of Put the grade stakes with ribbon out there kind of What the Proposed what the initial 1700 square feet looks like out there You know, and it might not be exactly the exact feet that it should be But it'd be nice to kind of be able to and then if we take a look over there, you know walk over We can kind of see that okay I'll do a stake in the ground Because it's a great stake with the kids the kids out there and all that they'll not Yeah Yeah I think we can we can just do it and you can go out there at your leisure and take a look at it Or if you give us a or if you let us know when it's ready When you've done it, we can just I'm sure within a day or two I can buzz over because if we do it with a group then we have to we have to learn Meeting and it becomes a bigger thing But it just gives us an opportunity to go over and kind of visualize That's The large grade states might be a problem If you really helpful this to Be remark the spot for the tennis court Because that's like a geographic anchor Yeah, a lot of what we're trying to do And it tells us how far up hill we're going to push or not Yeah, do you want to put something together and or do you want you want me to mark it or are you going to go out and mark Different areas. I don't think I quite know where to find I'm giving corner if I found a corner Yeah, well, I'm going to get to be honest with you. I'm going to I'm going to take that and I'm just going to scale it I would All this second is our next community Yeah, all right We'll be there all this second at the pool. Yeah, and then if you want to drop in and and we'll have the We can do the cones or whatever No, but if you just say hey, it's we but it's all set we can just buzz over at I'll just mark so I'm thinking about I'll mark this And if you can make it clear enough Maybe maybe Dave will take a picture of it with his drone You can fly over and take a picture of it and see the footprint from the So if you can make it look good from the air that might help All right, well, we thank you for all your hard work. I'm going to mark the tennis courts tennis court I'll mark the tennis courts and then you guys can mark your proposed areas Because I read in your minutes of your last select board meeting I'll mark the tennis courts Yep, so um Can can we the committee Information and then talk about it at our committee meetings and see if we What we We were just looking at the um, we've been we've been looking at allowed to know about it No, we we have been we have been looking at all the fee schedules throughout the whole town from permit fees to You know because so many things have been way outdated And pool fees was on that list And all we did at that time was showed what our current fees are And then there was some information given on what our neighbors charge Oh And then what what a potential fee schedule could look like based on the two So that will become for you at your next meeting for discussion Okay, but we would like we would like the committee's input on If if we should raise fees not raise fees or Residential versus non-residential that kind of We did raise the fees in may of 2013 and that was five years ago. So maybe it's time to look at it again Yeah, so I'll bring it to you for your next meeting and I'll probably be there your next Uh And it's nothing that right now that we're going to be looking to approve Really soon because even if we proved it now it wouldn't go into effect until next july, right? So there's really no hurry at this point to get that approved I just wanted to because I read it and then I Nobody said anything before our meeting Okay, thank you very much Thank you All right So we have next on the agenda to get dark in here We can't we can't afford budget cuts Budget cuts Well, you've been saying that it's been a while since we had a later one So I had um You know just as we've been kind of Looking at everything in town One thing that I I had brought up to Greg and teres a few weeks back Was the whole thing on just kind of taken a look at what the town owns currently for property It's always good to kind of take a look at our inventory and and go through it and see it if any If there are pieces that maybe potentially we could sell because anytime we sell a town owned piece of land that's that's potential tax revenue for the town, so there's So greg has put together a greg and teres put together a a list of our current assets land-wise Now as you'll see a majority of them are you know the library Churches school large Some of them are the buyout Buyout pieces so that a majority of the list we couldn't do anything with anyways or wouldn't want to But the thought is to kind of for you guys take a look at those pieces and then I talked to greg and teres about maybe coming back to the board With some recommendations on some of the parcels if any on you know, what would make sense to try and sell and And collect tax revenue on I think there's a bulk land here Where's yeah, so some So some of them like you know Some of these, you know, you can't there's a few of them. We can't do anything with but But you know The thought we should be probably doing this once a year every couple of years kind of looking at our list as we Take on new responsibilities of going through it Because if we hold on to it other than if we use it for ourselves, we don't collect any revenue on it. So Did you did you or teres have a chance to look at that list and come up with any recommendations? She was this time She's on vacation until tomorrow. I guess it was a kind of I would like to continue this on to the next next meeting Can we shrink the list to take out the ones that we know we can't touch You know can't do anything with absolutely. Yeah, yeah, and I've got I can go to each site that that's left over And take pictures or whatever and just kind of give a quick I don't think it's me that many No, you take out the cemeteries the schools and the building And the FEMA buyouts and those No, and and that's the whole thought is there might only be one piece there might be three pieces But it just gives us the ability, you know, if we know that we have An acre sitting somewhere that we could sell to a developer to build whatever on And collect tax revenue, you know, that might be worth. Yeah pursuing You know, we get pieces from tax, you know sales and things like that. So So you think by the 13th You and trees could put together a or condense this list down to the the actual possibilities And then maybe just Some of the most of them you can you know where they're at but some of them are a little challenging to understand What that piece of land is Maybe just a little comment next to it on what would be the benefits of selling that Old road by the river Yeah, that's So and we'll just keep that conversation continued with that And we have dog warrant There's a dog warrant officer tonight I guess so I guess I am I think this is just a formality You know just an annual Certification if you will I think of how we have handled dogs and wolf hybrids There's a there's also a report that goes along with it that outlines The animals that were taken into custody, I believe and what kind of The date and where they were taken I don't think you have to approve it. No, I don't think it's anything. You just have to sign it I don't know what we've done up with that in the past. I don't know if it's something that we want Mark to You know Look at and and go to these people's property. What do we get for a lake the $2 more? Yeah, I mean that's labor What he's got to do I mean so they just get away with it. So what's the sense of anybody paying a dog tax? I had somebody visit my house a few years ago and it hadn't like simply done Really? Yeah, I mean it it had slipped my mind. That wasn't It might be I'm happy to have him come to my house. It wasn't I can take your dog What what sort I'm not who but what position was it? Uh, it was the dog officer. Who was it a few years ago? Wendell Jim Do I have his name He hasn't done it in a while, but I was I mean the only way we're going to be able to enforce some well The only way you're really going to get people to make sure that they license their dogs is to make the You know the penalty stricter I mean if right now if you say cost you have whatever $8 to register it but $10 if you're late, I mean You know You know most people will probably do the you know and do it right but there's a lot of people. It's like well They are sent by the state No, lovely dog license is Fees they're sent by the state Yeah I guess that's what this The fee that you want to oh cost us more money to I'll come get your dog and I'll put it in J. Oh and you will pay to get it out Well, we've we've had to do that that will not be two dollars That'll be a thousand hundred or more cost well, we had we had the one at the board there a few Meetings ago that had Remember the dog that we seized from the hot building Yeah, that was costly However, if the person let's say the person decided not to retrieve their dog that's very costly to town As well It's not worth the stamp It's not worth putting that out in the mail. Is that something we can change your audience what we can change more or not? Well, according to the fee schedule unless I'm reading this wrong It looks as though that those fees are set by the state So if they're set by the state and what they're under a stature unless they say at a minimum Then we're we're helpful um But we can definitely take a look at that. I'll I'll I'll get with terese tomorrow And we can look at the statue real quick and see if there's any any leeway in there No, I yeah, I get it. Yeah I mean, I think it's more of a civil legal issue if if you're not a dog is not licensed and invite somebody I don't know if there's a If there's anything there, I know if they don't have the rabies shots on all that That's absolutely Well, we can check into it if you want to look at possibly the revising. I think in the in the old days the the reason behind registering your dog was because of the rabies issues that And it That somebody dog kill Okay, well, I can I can look at it and see if it's something that we're giving any leverage to change Sometimes I mean sometimes it'll say at a minimum. Yeah, we can go for that All right Well, we'll move on to the We're just signing we're not Greg why don't you talk to us about the municipal planning grant sure so The planning commission has been working diligently on A grant it's a Excuse me the municipal planning grants. I don't know if you remember but a few weeks ago or maybe a month ago I asked for my ideas for this planning grant and Lo and behold the planning commission was already working on an application so Another reason why we've just adopted a grant management policy But uh, it's a good grant. It's good grants. So what they're applying for they've been working with two rivers on this Actually, two rivers wrote the grant for them the majority of it And it's for an update to the town plan. So There have been quite a few changes in the town In the last I think it was written five or six years ago. It's when it was finished. So they're proposing a A revised town plan based on Some of the new information that and kind of new ideas in town and how things are moving So they're asking for your signature in this it's I believe it's a An 80 20 grand. I don't remember it's a 20 or 10 90, but they have a budget So the funds for the matching would come out of them the planning commission's budget for this But yeah, so this will allow us to work on a new town plan With two rivers and uh, and the planning commission Right and I think it was it's been five or six years since the last one was done So I mean I had a couple ideas myself for a planning grant, but I think you know, they They were ahead of me on the game here. I think this is a great use for it. I really do And we'll we'll hopefully move forward with this Do you need a motion on this or just signature? Um, are you part of anything you just I need a motion for you to allow me to sign it Okay, basically Second All in favor Lies have it Thank you But I think if we I think we're I think it's a we um Approval of the slack board minutes from july 9th This could be five times in a row break the street all You got a straight you're Says what says end of budget status reports from Katie She said And and my own edit is it should say select board minutes not select board agenda. So I will fix that too And I think the reason why she had from Katie in there is because that's the way it was in the agenda Yeah, you know, I know it's okay, but I just know I'm wondering if she'd say end of year Status reports period Just take it out. Yeah Oh going back down to one I broke this tree Any other comments in regards to the Second all in favor Nope, wait broke the streak All right Other communications, uh, as you saw in there, it's like greg hits prove the uh stage race Yep, that usually happens every year. Yep, and just enough live anybody's interested There is a pamphlet in here and some information on the race if everybody wants to wants to run in the race. It's uh Looks like it's august 17th is a 5k run and walk events and then august 18th is a motorcycle ride That's not the stage race. That's So that's what you're doing too separate. Well, the first one is that green mountain stage race. Oh, yeah. Yeah, sorry The one says if the one yes, sorry. The second one is the last mile. Yep. My mistake. Sorry So we're all good with those Greg, did you have anything? I didn't see you on the list. No, I because we talked last time And I was going to do just I'll do my report the first meeting of the month because I get a little repetitive Otherwise, so just a quick Things that are kind of going on we've We're doing some roadside mowing. We end up getting a roadside mower from Barnard We borrowed that from them for two weeks. We're hoping for three weeks so that we can do a little extending of the roadside so AJ's been out doing that and in turn we've been You'll see the guys probably hauling dirt all week this week. They're for Barnard. We're working Our guys are working for them and we're using their mower. It's just been a nice little trade-off here So you'll see some roadside mowing going on Guys will be grading gonna be the grader was out for or was down for a little while last week But it's out again. We'll be going a little moisture is good. A lot of moisture is bad, but a little moisture is great So we're hoping we get a nice balance here so we can get the roads all graded out and packed in but You should see that out about again. It'll be out all week It'll be out all summer Other than that we're just kind of kind of doing our thing Um I can I'm not completely sure how that's going to work yet, but What we've done is I don't remember about the the clerk position after we did our analysis Our job analysis for the clerk position. We found that It really the the tasks that were in that job description really only quantified to about 15 hours a week So she was going to lose roughly 20 hours a week and benefits and everything else And she came up with the idea actually to Because she knew the transfer facility was in need of a bookkeeper Possibly working out there 20 hours a week and it sounds as though the the joint board Has given chat permission to hire her as a bookkeeper out there. So start Until we get a job Right just temporary until a job description is written and then it'll be be permanent But that allows her anywhere about 17 to 20 hours a week which gets her back up into full time status Um, and she will then continue to have her benefits and everything. Uh, we'll just be The time will be split the time will be split accordingly 50 50 most likely But you know, it depends sometimes she'll be at the town a little longer sometimes out there So I think a 50 50 split is most reasonable Um, so yeah, we'll be dropping 50 of the cost to have her as an employee And that will be picked out by the transfer facility Uh, we're scheduled to start that. I think uh, July 30th We'll be the first day for that. Good. So yep, hoping that works out. Yeah, we're down good then How does that work with the benefits so aren't they two different They are a town they're still they're a town employee So based on this interlocal agreement that we have which don't even get us started off Okay, where's everybody technically right now they are all town of Bethlehem employees So they are still uh, they still are allowed to get all the benefits They have the same benefit package out there that the town employees have They are not nest they are not technically a special entity a separate entity right now Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe We'll get you up to speed on that one. Yeah, that's another one So uh any um kind of looking through all these uh minutes I did see the solid waste Looks like in the solid waste board meeting minutes. Well, they got green mountain power and green lantern mixed up And they actually might not I'll catch that one You see all my thunderbolts. No, I was getting one in there getting highlights. Oh, yeah Because I got confused there for a minute so Anything else to report from there? No, it's all wasted actually that The original design was for a single phase there's gonna follow the wind down And they want to switch over to a Free phase they'd have to bring poles down in between both buildings Different layout Yeah, so actually that could be interpreted that way too. Um, okay But they're going back to single things. All right Any other business to come before the board? Anything the board members that? Get a second Uh legal slash personal Yeah, all right, all in favor