 Good morning everybody, welcome to the House Committee on Government Operations and Military Affairs. It is Thursday April 20th and we are here to pick up our conversation about S17 and I welcome the Washington County Sheriff. So would you like to introduce yourself for the record? Absolutely, good morning everyone. My name is Mark Coulin. I know most of you for my time here in this building. I am the newly elected Washington County Sheriff. I would like to begin by stating up front that I can speak for almost every newly elected Sheriff that we are as upset about some of the things that have happened in the past as everyone else in a lot of ways we are more upset because we are better than this. With that said, working for a Sheriff's Department or being the Sheriff is a labor of love. It is different than being any other type of law enforcement officer. I have worked for the Sheriff's Office and the Capitol PD and Sheriff's Departments are strange. They are different and complex. With that said, after watching what happened yesterday, all the testimony in your discussions with the new draft coming, I'm going to defer my majority of my testimony until after we can see that because I'd like to testify to what is going on currently. With that said, I'm going to give you a little bit of my background because I've been deeply involved with a lot of these moving parts. I did work for the Sheriff for almost 15 years. I was third in command of the Department before I came here to the Capitol. While I was there, I was in charge of all the details outside of patrol. So I dealt with all the property move-outs and restraining orders. I was in charge of the court staff. I was in charge of all the details that made the Department money. I was the high bailiff for 10 years. So a lot of the discussion, I have deep intimate knowledge of how it works. So with that said, if you have questions about that stuff or questions for a new Sheriff, I would love to answer those for you at this time, but defer my commentary until after I see the updated version. So how can I help you with that said? Mark, is that a technique? Sure, I think the question was spoken to, I believe it was from Senator Norris in regards to his new position as a Sheriff right off and how hard it was for him to not be able to, from the time he got elected to the time that he started to serve, look at anything that went on in the department and all that sort of stuff. So he came into a call. So I guess I just ask you what you found and if there's any way that we can make that an easier transition for you. So the previous Sheriff and I would consider him a friend. He helped me get into law enforcement. We have that kind of relationship. So our transition was about as seamless as you possibly can get. We didn't get into the deep financials leading up to it because I was already aware of it, but anything I needed, he would be there. He would take care of a lot of the transition stuff. I would ask questions. He would answer it. We sat down with the bookkeeper. We worked together to go to the banks to transfer everything over. It was about as seamless as you could possibly hope for. I have kept him on the roles as a deputy because one, he wants to work and two, we've kept his state email and his department phone and things of that nature because there's still stuff that pops up that he's getting emails for that. Oh, we forgot this. We forgot that. So both of us being reasonable people. It's a team effort and it's been perfect to improve it. Obviously, it's not that way with all departments. There isn't any training for a new Sheriff. Four of us recently elected went to the National Sheriff's Institute a couple weeks ago, which was at the FBI Academy, which is high level leadership and training for Sheriff specifically. This is on the national level, which doesn't necessarily apply to specifically the Vermont, but that is the only Sheriff specific training available period. So some kind of training, especially for officers who have not worked for Sheriff's Department before that would be incredibly helpful because the complexities of it. If you come in cold, like the previous Sheriff, Sam Hill, came from Berry City PD and he told me the story about three weeks in, he called his former chief trying to get his job back because he was way and over his head. So some kind of supports that could be put in place, some kind of training, how that would work, not a clue, but that would be incredibly beneficial. I didn't necessarily need that because I'd worked there for, you know, decades. Thank you. One of the questions that we've had that I think you're touching on is that it really matters who gets elected and there's a little bit of like a little bit of luck sometimes in terms of just exactly who decides to run for that office and then what they show up with, whether it's, you know, they could have a great law enforcement experience, it'd be an absolutely incredible law enforcement officer and maybe not have the financial management skills or the technical skills to do the kind of reporting and some of the requirements that modern law enforcement management requires. And so that supporting and professionalizing and having some supports for the Sheriff's is I think a theme that you're going to see in the draft that we'll hopefully see from much council a little later. Representative Morgan and then I'll go to you. Thank you. Yes, sure. So that training in Quantico, how long was it this period? It was to do Monday through Friday. We were there Sunday to Saturday. One week. Yeah. It's the week by the end of extremely long days. Is it something you think is transportable to like if we put it at our peace academy or something? It is not. They're bringing a few different sheriffs from around the country to act as mentor sheriffs and it's a national-based program and they run three or four sessions a year. Our class size was 25. So it's available for anyone who applies to go. It's just a matter of they try to keep a certain mix of small and large and sheriffs departments in that class. But it's free. It doesn't cost a dime that the feds pay for everything. So anyone who applies can go. So it's just they need to actually do it. So they host your right there in Quantico. How's your everything? Everything. Drinky. Okay. So now I'm just curious if there's something you can obtain with some consider. Thank you. Was your election where you're running against each other or had he decided he decided to go? With 39 year career he had had enough. So I ran unopposed. But for years everyone assumed I would run for sheriff and I was everyone's like yeah you're the next sheriff. Well okay that might have been the case but it turns out I was the only one that ran. Do you have any information or insight experience on elections that are contested and those transfers of power going well versus not versus people who choose to step down? I can only speak to stuff I have heard. I have no direct experience with that because we had no turnover in my department. For the most part things have always seemed to go well in the last few ones anyways. There was always the look if it was a contested election it was lost. There's a little bit of the sour grapes had been there but for the most part people were reasonable about it and turned things over. The most recent example in orange seems to be a bit of an extreme that most I've ever heard in my 20 year career at this point. So for the most part I think people have been reasonable that it's going well. Okay thank you. And just to clarify that it did seem like there were eight or nine newly elected sheriffs. Like most of those transitions seem to go smoothly without incident. I think that the one that you mentioned about that mistake in the incoming sheriff announced that they were sort of ticking over the administration of the office prior to February 1st. So I am friends with both the new sheriff and the former sheriff and they both are the best I can say I love them both. They were both in the wrong and they both needed to put on their big boy pants. Fair enough we will not press you on that. I just want to make sure the committee knew what you were referring to here. Representative Cooper Brandt also. Representative Hango. Thank you. So I like the sheriff here. I don't know what's coming in your draft but I just scribbled a few notes about training that would be really helpful I think for new sheriffs and five different areas how to interact with various law enforcement and emergency personnel throughout the county and the state statewide. Office management procedures for somebody who's never run an office personnel management for someone who's never overseen personnel before financial management working with constituencies and training on outreach and transition and succession planning for not only someone who is incoming, you know, who do they reach out to who's been there before who can help them in their new position the planning for who they're going to hand off to eventually in the end. Does that cover it? Do you think? Anything else you'd like to add? That covers most of it. The financial stuff seems from my experience seems to be the most challenging for many because most people come from a PD where you don't have to operate a business you have your budget you work your budget relatively simple. I am on a board of many non-profits I'm the president one right now says we're not a problem for me so but for many it is the personnel matters most of the time when somebody runs for sheriff they have enough law enforcement experience that the interaction with the public the interaction with other agencies the leadership the management because almost everyone is a shift supervisor if if not higher so that is really low down on the totem pole the financial piece and just being able to manage a large business type operation is there's nothing more important than that really great thank you. Any other questions for sheriff? Okay well sheriff thank you for sharing your perspective I am seeing the legislative council has emailed me a draft so I will be hopefully posting this in just a moment I just want to take a quick stand here and make sure we are on the same page and it's included and then we're going to take a break while the machines of that the machinery of getting that posted happens got a couple people testifying I asked our charter team to come in and talk about some absolutely different so there's nothing else for sheriff pool and I'll let him go for now. So again once the draft is released let me know that I would like to speak to it and again my office is you can see out the window right here so thank you all for your time. Thank you. We'll be getting it posted shortly and then um legislative council will be here for about a minute or so. Have a good day all. Thank you.