 Welcome back. Time for our second hot topic. Today, 10th October, is Mental Health Day. The day is set aside to highlight the importance of mental health and to mobilize efforts in support of mental health education, awareness, and advocacy. And the theme for the World Mental Health Day 2023 is Mental Health is a Universal Human Right. And I've been joined by Jacinta Ebim, Mental Health Advocate. She is a young change leader with Ngubu Collective and she's advocating for schools across the country to take the guidance and counseling role very seriously, especially for schools in northern Nigeria where students might have been victims of kidnapping. You're welcome Jacinta. Thank you very much. All right. First of all, before we go into mental health and why it's important to set this day apart, you know, to create all this awareness and education around it, tell us why you are doing what you're doing in the north. So I am a mental health advocate and a counselor with lived experiences. I have been diagnosed with multiple mental health illnesses and I have lived, you know, even as a privileged person with access to kind people and quality mental health support, I still have to face stigma. I still have to face second hand trauma. I still have to face as an empathetic person the struggles of others around me. So I started what I will call my mental health journey solely, actually was primarily inspired by my experiences and then by the experiences of the people around me and those I have encountered. And in the course of your work in the north, how would you say the state of their mental health is, especially those you've discussed with those you've attended to who have experienced kidnapping? Did you, did you speak with survivors of kidnapping? Oh yes, yes, yes I have. I have spoken to quite a number of them. I've spoken to survivors. I have spoken to people who are close to the survivors. I have spoken to people in the classroom with those who have been, you know, survivors of the kidnapping ordeal. And I will tell you it was traumatic. It wasn't a very humane experience for them. There were people who had to take open, females who had to take open bath in open places in the presence of males who are, you know, actively traumatizing them with not just their presence and the equip and the weapons that they have with them, but also with their words, with their actions, and with the condition that they found themselves in. And you see the whole inhumane unhygienic way of feeding as well. You know, it was a whole process. Aside the trauma of the experience and the condition that they were placing, they also have to live with illnesses that have arisen from, you know, the uncultured and unhygienic way of living around there. Indeed. Where do you think it's important to set this day apart to mark the mental health thing? So mental health awareness, I must commend the work of mental health advocates and people in the profession who have been doing their best in the past couple of years to increase awareness on mental health. But I tell you that we are still nowhere in the beginning of this awareness. There are still many communities who do not have equal access to mental health support. There are still people who still amplify the stigma, just the people who are misinformed on the conditions of people with mental health illnesses. And we need to set today apart so that we can all gather support together and emphasize on the importance of mental health. So this day is not just about creating awareness on, you know, making your mental health a priority, knowing about mental illnesses, knowing about the rights of people. It is also a call to the government to allocate small funds in mental health budgeting in accordance with the recommendation of the UCH policy. So it is so important to celebrate this day so that we can all come together and put more focus, put more pressure on mental health awareness and support. Indeed. I mean, the importance of this awareness cannot be very emphasized. And also, I think it may be safe to say that a lot of people are becoming aware, a lot of people are becoming aware. I think maybe now, as you are saying, emphasis should now be more on action. And I do understand that the former president, Mohammad Ibohar, did sign the mental health law acting to law. What's the state of that, of the implementation of that law in the country? I am part of a coalition that had, you know, put more pressure on the president to pass the bill. And, you know, it was a good fit in the mental health community in Nigeria. But, you know, it was just the beginning of a long journey. And we know how policies in Nigeria can be. It's the beginning of something, but the implementation is another thing. But I must commend the federal government and, you know, the national mental health program under that ministry. They have been engaging CSOs, communities, and increasing awareness on, you know, the policy and making sure that more people are represented. People with lived experiences are having to review the policy and how it impacts their life and how they can ensure that the implementation process is very inclusive and very diverse. So they have actually been having a very good start in the implementation process. I have been part of quite a number of policy review meetings with the federal government. I have, by coalition network as well, has been part of the community involvement and empowerment program for, you know, the implementation of the policy. So it is actually a good start. We have started on a good note. We just need to put more pressure on the implementation process. Tell us more. I'm not sure I quite got you. Tell us more about what this government is doing with regards to implementing this mental health law in the country, across the country. Okay. Okay. So one thing is to have a policy. Another thing is to ensure that it is representing the right people they're supposed to represent. And, you know, when we pass when they pass this policy, it was so important that they include CSOs, people would leave the experiences like me and, you know, community leaders and international NGOs to ensure that this policy is a good representation of the Nigerian people. So starting from that end, the policy review end, it was a good start. We have done quite a number of workshops. We have done quite a number of policy review meetings across the country. But I wouldn't say that they have started implementing the provisions in the primary health care centers. And we haven't seen the impact on budget allocation. We also haven't seen the impact on, you know, ensuring that suicide is not a criminal act anymore. But it's a good start is a good start that they want to include more people in this policy implementation process. Indeed. It's good to have you say that, you know, one of these things you just highlighted, I didn't even know was part of of it. And, you know, to make sure to say that suicide is no longer a criminal act, because sometimes when you hear people who survived suicide being punished or being called to question, you wonder why didn't you take care of them before you got to that stage? Why are you criminalizing the what they've done? They lost hope. Talk to us about experiences in this regard with those who have survived suicide. Do you have any such experiences? Yes, I have. As a councilor, I have had to handle cases of, you know, suicide survivors. And as a person living with mental illness, I have also battled my own share of suicide ideation. It feels suicide attempts here and there. And, you know, when I started this interview, I mentioned how I am a person who is privileged, right? Because I have a supportive family. I have kind friends around me. I have access to quality mental health support. For the people that I have counseled over the years, do not have this access. They do not have these privileges. They are still faced with people who tell them that, you know, Nigeria is a very religious country. They are still having people who tell them that their faith wasn't strong enough. They are still having people who disregard and invalidate their experiences. They are still having people tell them that, you know, they were not strong enough. And I will tell you one thing. People don't realize how much strength it takes to actually attempt suicide. It is a very, very courageous step to see your life flash at your very eyes. But your hopelessness and your numbness is beyond your will to even push forward. Your hopelessness and your numbness has empowered you enough to want to even take your life. It's not easy. People who have survived suicidal attempts and having it hard in this country. They are having it hard with their family, having it hard with their friends, having it hard in religious settings. People judging them by their attempts and not really by their story. People invalidating their experiences and not giving them the support that they need. We need to do better as a society. Indeed. You started a petition asking for counseling units in public schools. How far have you gone with that? So at the beginning of my campaign, it attracted the attention of the Honorable Commissioner at the time. And she was quite interested. And before my campaign started, I had sent a couple of letters to her to her office for a meeting on how we can ensure that there's an implementation of this provision in the National Policy on Education. And there was no response. But when I started my campaign, being a very private woman, she reached out and it was a positive start. But since then, she has been quite silent. So I wouldn't say that my campaign is going so great. But I am being more optimistic that the new Commissioner is going to be more interested in, you know, ensuring that learning environment is mentally conducive for children and adolescents. Where are you joining us from? I'm joining you from Cardinal States. Okay. What do you know what the state's government in Cardinal State and the federal government also have put in place for today? Is there any special activity to mark the day, to create more awareness, to provide more counseling units across the country? Do we know anything in that regard? When it comes to the counseling unit, no, I don't. But one thing I know is there's a provision for it on the National Policy on Education. There's actually a provision for it. It is left for, like I said, most policies in Nigeria are not being seen through in the implementation process. So it is still a gradual process that I'm trusting that they should hasten. So this is my call to them that they should hasten that process of ensuring that on this day, we don't just talk about mental health and workplaces and schools. But we also see through the provisions that it has for assessing mental health care. What would you say to people watching with regards to how to treat people? You are a survivor. And you say you were diagnosed several times. What would you say to people who are watching with regards to how to treat people, you know, speaking against stigma right now? What's your advocacy against stigma? So I probably say that you do not define what support is. The person facing the challenge is the one who defines what support means to them. So as a nation, as a community, as a people, I would advise that we actively listen to people who are facing mental challenges, that we actively support them in the way that they desire. So someone is going through depression. And of course, we know it's a harsh economic face if we're in. But you can just assume that these people are facing just financial challenges. There are still people who face other challenges that finances may not solve. So it is important that we all try to be active listeners, compassionate and empathetic supporters. And we ensure that we continue to be more informed. So before you speak and show that you have the adequate knowledge on the subject matter, so you don't spread misinformation and amplify stigma. And also when you see injustice in the health sector, in the workplace, in schools, ensure that you speak up for people who cannot speak. Most people with mental illnesses in Nigeria are too, they are too muffled by the pressure of stigma that they don't get to speak up for themselves. So you who have the voice, please speak up for us. We would appreciate that. Can action be taken? And if action can be taken? What actions? Sorry, come again. Actions, what actions can be taken by people? Not survivors now, but those who are within reach? First, I will go back, I will go with the federal government. We have to regulate three bodies for mental health providers to help us increase more accessibility for mental health supports. Then as people in workplaces, I'm talking to bosses right now, it is important that we have mental health provisions. So if there are people who are not being very productive at the workplace, give them leave, give them leave so that they could go and recuperate better. Ensure that tasks are being disseminated effectively and not just overwhelming people with job roles. To individuals, I would advise that we continue to make more research on mental health first aid organizations. We have mentally aware, I have an organization, we also offer mental health first aid. We have anti suicide squad, also offering mental health first aid. We have sunshine series. So we have quite a number of mental health first aiders and organizations that offer free mental health support. So as individuals, we should do more research when people are faced with these challenges. We don't just discredit them and invalidate their experiences, but we position we send them to the right channels where they can get support. Okay, I'm going to ask you to leave your details, give your details and also before we go, just imagine you're talking to someone, a survivor, two minutes, no, a minute. Talk to that person, counsel that person. That's what you do. Hi. I know that times are not easy. I know that you are going through a lot at the moment. I know that you can understand how you're feeling. I know that you are trying to feel something, but you are still being long. You're still having to struggle with hopelessness. I want you to understand that there is support out there. There are people who still care about you. I care about you. You might not know me personally, but I do care about you. And I would really love to listen to you. I would really love to support you in any way that I can. Nigeria is still in our early stages of mental health awareness and support, but it is not going without saying that there are people who are actually taking steps. So we are here for you. You just have to reach out. It is not for you to handle alone. You need people and we are here for you. Just listen to a counsellor and you just got free counselling from a counsellor, mental health counsellor, Jacinta. Jacinta, how can you be reached? So I can be reached via Twitter as a beam Jacinta via my mail as Jacinta I've been assisting at gmail.com via my official gmail account, which I'm an official account, email account, which is farm initiative at gmail.com. I'm on Instagram as a beam J and my contact is plus two three four nine zero five zero nine nine one six five zero. You could always reach out to me and you don't even have to say anything. Just put an SOS and I would reply. Well, thank you so much Jacinta for your time and wishing you the very best in your endeavours, especially as you pursue your advocacy. Thank you very much. Thank you. Jacinta, a mental health advocate has joined us on the second heart topic to discuss World Mental Health Day. Do take care of your mental health. You deserve it. I am Maureen Menon with again. There's a much you have for you today on the breakfast. Do join us tomorrow and I'm going to be here with tomorrow's edition of the Breakfast and Plus TV Africa. You have a great day.