 Hi, welcome to the very first episode of the Michelle show Ed is joining me today. Hi, I'm Ed gal nice nice to see you And thank you all so very much for joining me today on this first installment of my show That's great, and we're really excited to have you here today in in studio and and basically, I wanted to just Reiterate what everyone a lot of people in the chat room already know of what this show is all about and what your plan is and That's gonna work. I The basis of my show really is to bring out into the open and open forum Conversation about topics personal topics women's topics just life topics that people don't really like to talk about so a Lot of women's taboo subjects A lot of women's taboo subjects, but as time goes on we expect for the topics to expand into anything just related to life issues right today's topic which is online dating scams is a really important topic I feel and Especially of the romance scam that has nothing to do with money because as some of you know and have seen online There have been many many instances where women and men alike will meet somebody online and Begin a romance and over time they realize that they're being scammed for money Well, this is not what today's topic is about today's topic is about What happens when you find out months down the road that the person you think you've been talking to doesn't even exist, right? well, so it's not just about financial scams, but just emotional emotional scams Yeah, I think it's a lot easier to fall prey to this kind of this kind of online dating scam because who would think that somebody's out there, you know Trying to rape somebody emotionally right and not take something of value from them Which is usually what what you expect the signs that you usually expect to see is a question of money Or when somebody asks you for something after you've started a relationship online But in this particular instance this Today's topic is what about when you meet somebody online? They send you pictures they romance you they make you fall in love with them only to find out Later that the person that you thought it was didn't even exist, right? And I think probably the The one number reason why I think that people do that is because it's so easy to hide behind a keyboard and to like Pretend like you're somebody else and even in your dreams. You might dream of being you know the person, right? Yeah, that's right, right and you have this like super ego that you want to like make a live all of a sudden in the online world Right, right, you know a lot of people are living a life that they that they probably find to be ordinary ordinary or mediocre and really You know the the online dating situation lends itself lends itself to Being able to create this fantasy character, you know whoever it is that you wish you were right so to speak So there are people that are you know stealing other people's photos Creating this you know this persona. Yeah that alter ego, right that eventually you find out doesn't exist Right, you know everybody that's watching now a lot of people that are watching now probably think that this couldn't happen to them But it happened to me So so you have firsthand experience and I can tell you that I'm the the person who is least likely You know for this to have happened to so that's that's probably what everyone that's what I think that's why they get Yes suckered into that's why they get suckered into it. So I wanted to bring this out into the open today It's not a topic that a lot of people talk about people think of online scams as you know The the money scams that that you hear coming out of Africa, right? You know all right chain letters and things like that This is a completely different topic, right and and I can tell you if I can fall prey to this anybody can fall prey to this Joining us today is Emily who is an online dating expert Emily's been dating online for a number of years has a lot to say on the topic is very knowledgeable And she's joining us on Skype by the way Hello Where were you at Emily if you can disclose where you're at yeah, I'm located in Los Angeles, California Oh great. Welcome to the show. Thanks beautiful place to live hard place to date. Oh, wow I can just imagine all the stories So what makes you? And sort of expert at this I guess is the first question You know, I've been dating for a long time and I'm in my early 30s. I've experienced I think kind of every online dating kind of Interface there is out there and I definitely think that my experiences are Similar to those of kind of every male and female in the US. I just I'm willing to talk about it So I've got a lot of tips of the trade And I've definitely kind of been there where I've been on the other end of a scam And and it sucks when people try to take advantage of you emotionally Mm-hmm, and is there like a certain criteria that these scammers are looking for or like, you know There was actually I just actually blogged about it There was a special on 2020 on online scams and of course as Michelle had mentioned there was one about You know people trying to get money and for people to send money to Ghana and kind of all of that stuff Which hopefully some of us are are keen to pick up on now these days But the other one was a woman who had met a married man on online on an online dating service and and I think that it's something that we have to consider is It's something that could happen to you in a bar. It could happen to you at a grocery store It happened to you anywhere where you can meet a married person so it just comes down to being smart and You know if somebody doesn't want to meet you immediately you got to Put put on your spideys then so wonder why Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I want to put out there right now You know that the gist of what happened to me without because I can talk about this subject for I can talk about this subject forever so I I'm only gonna give you, you know a few details So that you understand what some of the signs were in my particular case but Basically, I met somebody on Facebook and I normally don't accept friend requests from people I don't know and somebody reached out to me on Facebook and wrote me a very well articulated first message which You know, I'm very sexy It is it is very sexy and I'm a sucker for I'm a sucker for people that write well and this person articulated you know, they were very eloquent in their message and basically It was love at first sentence That makes any sense, right? He didn't even have a picture up, you know in the in the in the first In the first email that I received but basically from that moment on it became a Corresponding, you know daily multiple times a day He said he was a surgeon. So his time was very limited He couldn't be on the phone constantly. He couldn't mind you. He lived out of the state so I wasn't expecting to meet the guy in person, you know in a day or two days, it wasn't a situation where we could set up a meeting soon and He just you know, maybe I said maybe I got personal in the emails and and he fed off of that Mm-hmm. Maybe he knew what to say. Mm-hmm, but I can tell you that over the course of the many months that we were corresponding and He was very present very consistent. He was there all the time and for those of you that have ever had an emotional void I can certainly say that this online person was more available and more present in my daily life Than what many many people many other people have not been You know, so by just corresponding by just corresponding, you know, we would chat live But never with never with a video camera I didn't think anything of it because initially we were gonna meet four or five weeks into You know the online correspondence. So there wasn't really a reason for me to think that he was lying, right? And you know, we shared personal stories. It became an you know an intimate online dating situation and It took many many months I was probably ten months in before I found out listen to this Emily before I found out that The pictures he was using because he had volumes of pictures on his on his page It took months before a friend alerted me that she recognized the photos as being a famous movie star from Brazil I mean, can you imagine it's correct creamer? Well, listen, there are there are layers to this story, you know, the one is not only the dangers of online dating but but things to look out for in the social networks because I Love Facebook. I use it every day all the time. But this person created not only a false identity On a false Facebook account, but he also created multiple Fake identities which he had as his friends on his Facebook account So over the course of the many months that we were corresponding, he would manipulate those characters Into writing things on his wall to substantiate the lies that he told me throughout our online Relationship, I mean, that's a very That's pretty elaborate. That's a very complex, you know scenario and I Certainly didn't see this coming. You know when he said he was a doctor and his friend on his page was Posting on his wall Doctor so-and-so. What are you going to send me? You know the the information we discussed about spinal neurosurgery That substantiates that he's a doctor Yeah, at least in your mind at least in your mind, right? so we're talking about a person that You know went through the trouble of not only creating a fake identity, but multiple identities on Facebook To help substantiate his story, right? Which then leads to another you know another aspect of what we're talking about here If somebody's capable of doing that what kind of danger life threatening danger Are you putting yourself in because this guy had to be a sociopath a psychopath something? Yeah, even if yeah, if you decide to meet with I would have ever if we would have ever made a real effort to meet What would what would have come fit? I mean, I don't I don't know to this day If my life was put in danger because I never found out who the person was. How do you like that? Yeah, what do you think about that Emily is this does that sound familiar to you? Yeah, you know, I'm lucky enough where I haven't really had the kind of emotional scam that that's happened yet. I am a very blunt person, which is a fortunate thing and an unfortunate thing but I I Really have come to grips with the fact that whenever I am online dating. I want to meet somebody Almost immediately. I mean after two to three dates. I get two to three emails I say hey, are we gonna meet or are we not because I found a lot of the time that when I kind of Converse with somebody a ton on email I realized that maybe I just have kind of you know written chemistry with somebody and not that chemistry that you really needed person right so one of the things that I tell everybody when they're online dating is to kind of cut the crap and You know meet somebody ahead of time and always be smart about it when you meet somebody, you know Drive your own car and meet somebody the fairy for the very first time, you know in a very public space Whether it's you know a restaurant or or coffee or you know I don't think that dating online has to be as scary as it is because there are a lot of of great Outcomes that have come from it and especially with the way that our lives are so stressed out today We need kind of an outlet to meet other people that you're not gonna meet You know just during your everyday life, right? And I agree that you know the internet and corresponding on the internet Gives you a means by which to screen the candidates have an early conversation Even if it's written, you know to gauge if you have things in common. I that's one of the reasons why You know aside from because this person I didn't meet thinking I was gonna date him at some point It turned into that after we corresponded, but I have you know been on other On other websites, you know that are that catered to you know singles meeting and whatnot And I think they're great because it allows you to figure out sooner as opposed to later if you have anything in common But unfortunately, you know the whole thing lends itself to people creating fantasies, you know and somebody falling victim to You know someone who lies about their identity right well and what the scariest thing too is while we're also stressed out in our Everyday life you don't you're so protective of you know your money and your independence and Your house and kind of all of the things that are important to you for you know Money-wise, but you forget that you need to protect your emotional kind of being of you as well Yes, that's what a lot of the people can take advantage of yes Let's take a moment to thank our our sponsors. 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He wants to know where is a good place to meet when you're dating online? Tell us some of your better experiences. Where have they where they come out of? Yeah, some of my better experiences. I would definitely recommend To not do dinner when you're first dating somebody I've had a lot of guys tell me that You know they've invested so much money in their online dating life because They have taken all of these you know first dates to really nice dinners And then they've realized into the first drink that they don't like them, right? So, you know with all of us being in a recession right now Dating doesn't have to be expensive You know meeting at the local pub and grabbing a happy hour beer is always fun. I mean if you don't drink I think getting Starbucks Pinkberry was actually one of my very favorite first dates You learn a lot about somebody with you know what kind of frozen yogurt they get and what their toppings are There's a lot of really fun first dates that you can do that are cheap and you know You sit down for an hour 90 minutes and you really get to know if that's something you want to spend any more time with Or if you just kind of want to part ways or Introduce into one of your friends. Now. Are you are you mostly? meeting your Your dating candidates on like match.com on e-harmony Where are you meeting? The best assortment of candidates so to speak. I've met I mean I've met dates everywhere I've met everyone from you know somebody at the gym to somebody online to you know a pizza place to the grocery store to Okay, Cupid. I mean I literally Try to to meet anybody wherever I can the most important part about it is that When you are dating somebody and when you're ready to meet somebody online You don't have a great, you know profile of what you expect out of that person With online dating. I think you really need to think out of the box and see what else is out there That's not on your top 10 list so Not dinner is that you're saying that mainly because that's That that's what the men are saying that it's just expensive a lot about that that and it's funny because I've been invited to dinner Where I've had to pay for half the meal and that's happened Several times that guy has invited me out from an online dating relationship or from it just you know from meeting online And they have you know wanted to go Dutch at dinner, which I think is completely inappropriate You're right that is an upcoming show topic going going Dutch The men always should always be paying Well, so, you know, I think that there's I just heard from a lot of people and I think that dinner can be a really big commitment For a first date. So it's always great to To do something a little simpler. Yes, definitely. Yeah, I agree. I think that People obviously are more conscious about how what they're spending and and if I'm single and I'm dating two or three times a week I mean, we're talking about easily in New York City a hundred dollars at the very least For one date. So you're talking about hundreds of dollars to keep me on the verge of almost finding that perfect person Yeah, and I can see that the chat board is is Blowing up with questions. Yes. Yeah, they have a yeah Cassandra has a good one I think well, I can probably read it here I have a friend who has been dating a guy for almost a year, but they've never met I've tried telling her to end it, but she doesn't listen. It cost me our friendship in his previous relationship with her Friend he pretended to be someone else and dated her best friend if that doesn't show my friend What is psychopath? He is what will any advice? Yeah? I mean if you have a friend who is failing to see the signs, you know If they confide in you and they they tell you like I told see my problem was that I told a lot of Handful of my friends what I was going through I I even let them read some of the messages and most of my friends thought The guy existed just based on the correspondence Oh when you tell a friend and the friend sees that there's something suspicious I mean Emily, what do you tell that person to try to shed light? You know on on the whole thing and get them to see that something is very very wrong when they're just refusing to meet in person You know as a friend, there's only so much you can do We're all adults and you need to act like one and if for some reason your friend isn't listening to you Then I think you know it they're they've kind of got their situation in their own hands There's not much that they can do And there's not much you can do you voice your opinion and really that's kind of mean that's you did your job as a friend Right now in in the core in the the correspondence of it. I mean what are You mentioned for example you give You give the candidates that you're meeting and whatnot a three email, you know Pretty much. Yeah, pretty much. Right. There's three emails before you request to meet in person or you just you know You shut them out. Yeah, what are what are some of the signs? You think and I'll share some of mine as well But what are some of the signs? I mean when they don't want to talk to you on the phone. There's a problem That's that I mean hello That's your number right and if I talk to you on the phone And if they don't and if they don't want to you know talk live with a with a video cam obviously That's another sign Yeah, and you know I have to say those are two things that I actually prefer not to do as an online dator When I meet some when I and you know talking with somebody via email on an online dating site I don't really like to give out my phone number and I don't really you know like to talk on video chat I just give them the opportunity to meet me in person or it's kind of it's kind of it That's just my personal opinion But I think phone is a great thing that you definitely need to do The only thing with the phone and this is where it gets a little complicated Is when you are dating because people have moved around so much you can have an area code That's you know all the way across the country and they can be telling you that they're in Your city right right So there's a lot of ways to um to see the scams coming though. I think um especially Unfortunately for you it sounds like a lot of the the clear signs were hidden I mean, I think when an email is written in all caps, it's it tends to not be human Right, it's totally true right it's computer automated and they're you know, they're reaching out to you for a variety of reasons The other thing is when um, you know, the Grammar is horrible. You can normally tell that that's coming from somewhere else as well Yes, I mean listen, I don't even I don't date real life guys that have horrible grammar I don't blame you my tips for a good profile Yeah, now jennifer Online in the chat room is asking if in my particular case if the guy ever wanted to meet And and did he use excuses? Did he ever um, I said earlier that he said he was a doctor um and that he had a very busy schedule and You know at first we set a date to meet which was about five weeks in I was gonna he was supposedly from florida Um, those of you that know me know that I'm from florida, so I visit florida all the time So we scheduled a tentative date to meet five or six weeks into the relationship Um, and and I called it a relationship because it very much became that I mean it totally consumed me um, but anyways When the the five weeks were up Suddenly his father passed away and he had to leave the country Because he was originally from spain supposedly so five weeks in he had to leave the country So when it was time for me to go to florida Uh, the meeting couldn't happen and then the relationship turned into you know for a couple of weeks My trying to consult him through his father's death Right, so I wasn't trying to put pressure on him You know to when are you coming back, right? I just wanted to be a source of You know of comfort, right? So we spent another two to three months like that Oh, wow Then when it was time to meet again in florida three months later, you know, um A surgery came up that you know that where he couldn't make it and basically I held on another Seven or eight weeks or so and then that was when I found out That he wasn't the person that he said he was right, but You know, but how did you find that out? I found out I said earlier that a friend alerted me, but basically what happened was I I kept showing a friend of mine Uh pictures. Oh, you know, I showed a friend of mine pictures of the guy and she kept saying, you know He reminds me of somebody I know He reminds me of somebody I know well weeks later. She calls me up one early one morning and she said Uh in in a voicemail. She said I remember who he looks like he looks like so and so the actor from this soap opera That had aired like eight years ago. It was a brazilian soap opera dubbed in spanish And I googled it found the guy now imagine me googling the soap opera seeing Video footage of the person I've been talking to for months And then googling the real actor's name And finding virtually all the pictures that the guy had on his facebook page So you knew right then and there did you confront him michelle? I did I confronted him and then this is where it gets a little, you know, it gets sticky because I I I had to confront him right away. I couldn't I couldn't not confront him and just you know, shut him out. I was invested way too much emotionally and Um, I called him on it, you know, I emailed him right away Sent him, you know the video footage the pictures. I told him that I knew what he was doing And at that point I was still so emotionally involved emily that I was willing to still meet him because I thought that maybe He just had a complex about the way he looked physically and maybe He was The person that he said he was just didn't look the way he said he did or that he portrayed in his pictures And I didn't have a problem with that so you assume that everything else was may have been real I assume that everything except the pictures, right except the pictures So I confronted him. He gave me a story About why he didn't tell me the truth And then he promised to send me a real picture Took it took two weeks for him to do that and when he did do that I could tell right away. It was yet another hot guy from the movies So I I hung on via email for several weeks because you can imagine that You know, I really wanted to know who it was. I mean, I I don't know to this day who it is Or who it was and you know The curiosity is always going to be there. I was truly involved. You were connected 100% Yeah 100% so it took you know, I I remained Connected via email for several weeks just trying to get him to admit to me who he was I mean, I got his ip address I think I have a really good idea of where he lives and who he is But I'm not 100% sure and at this point Am I really looking to spend an enormous amount of money to have the guy tracked down Just to find out who he is to get some sort of vindication I just I don't it's it's been an energy draining project as it is I don't I don't need to take it any further But if anything can come of this really is for people to know that this can really happen to everybody and You know It's very easy To fall prey because people can spend, you know, listen, even if you have a full-time job You can nowadays you can connect on your phone You can connect on your laptop and you can feed into somebody's emotional void 20 times a day and make them feel like a million bucks and hook them that way, right? That's really, you know, what it comes down to so um I mean, what do you think Emily? Well, you know, it's funny because a lot of the people in the in the chat room have this question And I'm kind of curious too. Are you Were did you ever think maybe it was somebody that knew you? I thought that maybe it was somebody who knew who who knows me Only because I mean how did they find me? You know what? I mean how because this this was a person who sent me initially a random email So, you know, there are millions of people on facebook So the question is how did he find me? Did he just get a friend's suggestion? And pick me at random because he liked my picture. I don't know To this day, I don't think it's somebody that I know only because All of the dialogue just so, you know, was in Spanish. None of the dialogue was in English I actually at some point want to want to publish the dialogue online Even if you know, I don't know if I'll ever translate it into English, but I do want to publish it online um So that people can read it and And see how easy it is. First of all, it's a very interesting story. The dialogue is fantastic even today when I read it It's just so juicy But you know, I want people to be able to read it and Maybe uh, they're going through the same thing and they can relate, you know What they're reading to something that's going on in going on in their life, but I mean It's just uh, it's a it's a it's a long and drawn out story It took me 10 months to figure out that this guy wasn't who he said he was And I can still to this day admit that even though, you know, he lied and he has You know psychopathic tendencies He was very present. He was very present in my life. I I shared a lot of intimate information with him He counseled me through bad moments I mean, this is a person who was very very Very smart, uh to finish answering your question. Emily, you asked if I thought it was somebody that I knew Um, since the dialogue was in Spanish and he said he was from Spain And there's you know, there are certain words and it's not Spanish Spanish from Spain is not a different dialect so to speak But every Spanish country has different vocabulary words and things that they use that makes that makes it You know that distinguishes what part of the world they're from I don't know any but I don't really have any friends that are that are From Spain, let's say, you know, except for one really good friend that I know wasn't him um And he spoke to me very consistently In this verbiage that was typical of somebody from that part of the world, right? So Maybe he's a friend of a friend that saw me on somebody's page I don't know. I mean is he still on facebook or did he just disappear? He disappeared because I I sent an email to facebook letting them know what happened to me. I think they followed up because um, actually the last time I did a search his profile was still up But I think that You know, that's only because you can never really make a profile disappear unless you you uh unactivated account So I don't know exactly If anybody else is able to like friend this guy because since I blocked him from my particular page every time I try to go into his page Even from from my ip address on my computer. I can't access it because I blocked him Okay, so and that's another thing facebook when you submit a complaint to them of this sort I mean something may have been updated since this happened to me a couple of years ago um But facebook when when you send in a complaint Basically, what they'll do is they tell you that they're going to look into it But they're not going to give you any further information So how do you know if it's ever taken care of if it's ever addressed? No, you don't it's just I mean you don't To me it's like uh, as soon as I find out someone's lying to me. It's like I just You know pretend like they've never existed I mean I I try not to do business with people that are that you find out that are liars or You know scammers or cheaters and if you see them or saying something To someone else that could be deceitful or it's a lie Then that's good enough reason for me not to deal with them because it's just why bother, you know There's just way too much and you know That they're trying to do to try and figure out right what they're up to, you know, it's like it's not worth it So, um, I wanted to to ask you emily Um, I forget who asked the question, but I copied and pasted it onto my clipboard Are there tips or red flags to look out for that should indicate? You are being scammed aside from no video camera Um, I mean, you know, there's obviously there's a few a lot of people right now are using kind of the army um You know army veterans as a scam You know saying that they are coming and going from From war and that they need money and supplies sent once they're there So that's always something to kind of be careful for um another thing is A lot of the time people will say that they're And I don't know why they always use someone foreign But a lot of the time it's somebody that's saying they're from australia or it's always an english-speaking foreign country Um, and that's when they say that they're you know going abroad for work And they would love to have you come visit, but they don't have the money to fly you there And a lot of the time you need to be careful obviously with with the money things Don't send your money anywhere spend it on yourself. Yes, that's my tip Um But the other thing you know when it comes to the emotional scamming is again You just need to be really careful about how many emails are going back and forth And just to be really weary, um That you're asking a lot of questions that you're not just the one answering them And and is there some is there certain things that you want to address right up front like Um, is there certain questions that you have that you always ask within the first few times? Yeah, you know, it's hard because I think a lot of the time you want to save You know, you're almost your interview questions like your first date questions for your first date So I always find that a lot of the time emails that I get that aren't from scammers You know that are from people that I've met with you know that I've that I've met on first dates Are really you know, what are you doing this weekend? Oh, how long have you lived in los angeles? What do you do for a living just kind of the very the very general stuff that gives you an idea of what type of person that is Um, you know, you always want to be curious as to if somebody can take you to lunch on a wednesday What kind of job do they have where they can take you to lunch on a wednesday? um Or you know, if if they're not available until 9 30 at night It was funny. I went out with somebody a couple weeks ago and the only time he could go out during the week was like after nine And I kept saying like in in la that In new york, that would be something that was totally normal, but in la you're kind of like let's do happy I mean, that's that's a school night. What are you doing? Yeah, it's it seems like you almost have to question everything You kind you know what though you kind of do because you always the most important person to take care of is yourself. Yes, and You really, you know, both with men and women you really need to turn on your kind of intuition and see if something feels right or wrong I can guarantee that 90 of the time if something is wrong, you're going to be able to feel it All right, I have a personal sort of a personal experience I'm not in a dating world right now or have been in a long time But I do meet people all the time online skype or whatever and uh, bruce and I actually met this Uh, it was a guy actually on skype and he was from sweden or something and we had this communication for months and there was never any kind of Thought that he was trying to get something from us. It was just mere conversation sometimes, you know Asking for advice this and that and after a few months of knowing him the natural questions that I asked was Do you are you dating someone? Are you married? What kind of women do you like? And then I'm now playing matchmaker And so this is where I went wrong was that I matched him up to one of my good friends that lives in Miami and uh To make a long story short, you know, she was very happy to have met him online And uh, and then they talked countless hours on the phone Uh, I had never actually seen him on skype because he claimed that he didn't have a video cam So we just talked on voice Excuse me, so I we assumed that he was legitimate because there was no other indication And so finally my friend talked to him for hours hours and months And they finally agreed to meet in new york city So my friend flew up to new york to meet him and guess what he never showed up never to be heard of again Ah, that's that's that's horrible. I know and I felt horrible just because I felt you were in the middle palpable, you know, you were you were in the middle I want to bring up an interesting comment that james said in the live chat James said and I'll rephrase just to not use You know verbatim What he said, but he said that rather than getting uh, let's say love in person That I allowed myself to fall into a photo drama You know online, right? Um, I certainly am Able to get love in person But this is a very I'm actually glad he brought it up because this is a very interesting point in this entire topic That a lot of times the emotional void is greater than your physical need to have sex I totally agree. Okay, because I I during the time that I was corresponding With with this guy. I actually had was kind of in a relationship with somebody else And when I and I'm even embarrassed to admit this but I broke off The relationship that I was in because I was so emotionally Invested in this new person, right? I wasn't even interested in the guy that was giving it giving it to me for real anymore So I'm glad that james brought it up because that really is an important An important part of this entire topic that that you know, the person that fulfills you emotionally that goes So much farther than just, you know, the 20 minutes of the real thing that you get somewhere else It really has nothing to do with sex. Most people that will fall prey to this are people that have an emotional void Hey, I'm not afraid to admit it. I I did at the time And you know the these people that are online doing this. They're looking for they're looking for that They're looking for that and they actually get an ego boost Knowing not only that they have control over you But that they're so important to you You know that you've that they've become Such an important part of your life. So Yeah, I I I I got myself into the whole photo online Email drama You know versus the real thing and and I got to tell you it while it lasted it was very fulfilling Now michelle, can we talk about another one of the blog or one of the kind of scams that's happening right now? Yes, regarding married men online Okay, go ahead. I I'm just curious because um, we have somebody kind of in the chat room Flan handler who who is on online dating sites and he's He's thinking about getting divorced But is dating um people out there. So he knows that he can find somebody once he does get divorced So I'm just curious what you think about that. I I'm a little I mean I think it's totally wrong for for married men to be kind of trolling the sites Listen for the emotional, you know the the women who are emotionally available and kind of looking for love I I think that anybody Who is Misrepresenting their reality In under any circumstances is just that's not the right thing to do. It's wrong And if if if you're married and you're looking Whether you're whether you think you're in a bad marriage Whatever the circumstances are if you meet somebody you need to just be upfront and tell them Not wait three dates because I know uh flan handler was asking earlier If it was okay to meet somebody since he's thinking about getting divorced But he doesn't want you know, he doesn't want to uh, he doesn't want to get divorced till he has somebody else Which is that that's a whole other issue in and of itself, but um He's asking if it's okay to let her know after the third date Listen after the first date after the second third communication after the third date if the person you're seeing Has gotten any kind of vibe or what they think is your reality And then you throw a bucket of cold water on them by telling them something different. It's just wrong So if if you're married and you're looking for love in other places What you need to do is just be honest from the beginning let the woman make the choice Listen whether we agree that it's right or wrong nine times out of ten if she really she's really digging you She's gonna go out with you anyways Right, but at least you were honest and upfront and you don't create a credibility issue later When she finds out that you lied and then that becomes the topic for the remainder of the relationship That becomes the topic of choice. Oh, you lied to me when I met you you lied to me when I met you Right, I don't want to just slam this one guy because I agree that women do this too. I mean women are you know online Doing the same thing Yes Right. I mean in that case, uh, michelle was dating someone and she was online Yes, I was I was I was thank you for putting me out there Um, thank you for throwing me under the bus But yes, I I was dating somebody I met the online guy Because I got a you know, I got a guilty conscience over it because I do feel I do feel that emotional cheating Is cheating, you know, even though I hadn't met the guy I was in a relationship. I ended A couple weeks in I ended the relationship I was in to further communicate and explore this situation with the online guy and so yes, you know, and I'm certainly guilty of You know of having been unfaithful so to speak. Yeah in in this online situation. Yeah, I can see both Sides because I mean there's always that transition period where You're not completely broken off, but you know that you're not interested But you haven't gotten to the point where okay, it's cut, you know And so in the meantime, you're over there playing the other field You might not be having sex or doing anything that could be Misconstrued as something wrong, but the fact is is that your eyes are wandering somewhere else So, right, I think that's I mean, I'm not saying it's right or wrong because everyone can make their own decisions, but Uh, I think we're human and we all have those periods of time where right where where you slip or You don't do the right thing or what you think and your partner thinks is the right thing because At the end of the day, it's all relative to you know to our own personal experiences and our own opinions But if you know that your partner would be very upset if they found out you were You know communicating via text or via email And and you had an emotional connection with somebody that's not them It's cheating if it's something that if your partner knew it would change the entire scenario, it's cheating I mean, don't you agree? Well, yeah to a certain degree, but in the same thing. I can't help but thinking You know, I recently saw the I think it was I think it might have been that movie with julia roberts that new movie I mean, I can't remember actually, but uh, it was the scenario was that the the husband was always online looking at nudie pictures Right, and I mean, I don't consider that cheating for a man. That's not really cheating. No, not if he's just looking at pictures Yeah, look, I think in general, you know when when We create in our mind a picture of who we think the people around us are Based on what they project So when time goes on and you find out Any idiosyncrasy about that person's character or personality that's not consistent with what you thought they were It's just shocking. Yes, and and it creates a problem So when a woman thinks she knows her husband inside out and then finds out, you know years in that He's looking at porn every day online or every night online or whenever she's sleeping She feels that there's been a disconnect, you know, she and or it probably the Whoever that is the victim or whatever they probably that brings out insecurities But they might not be true to the reality of the situation I mean, you might feel like oh, wow, he's looking somewhere else. I'm not satisfying him Right. He's looking for another wife, etc. But the reality is is that he just men are like that, you know That's a whole other topic. I know we're gonna have to definitely uncover some of those Uncover some of those Issues issues on a later date. 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I'm loving I'm loving this chat so many interesting comments and questions. Mekoto Was uh curious to find out what if you get to know somebody online and emily I want your opinion on this too What if you get to know somebody online you fall in love with you know the the person they seem to be And then you then they misrepresented themselves, you know with showing you a hot person's picture And then they turn out to be unattractive You know, um, I actually have two blogs on this called will the real slim shady still please stand up And Literally in a span of a week. I went out with three different people who didn't look anything like their profile Okay, great. So why did it go? It was a fascinating experience and this is why I really think that you need to Take the online meeting offline You need to meet somebody and you need to see if You know there for for me and I'm You can call me vane. You can call me whatever you want, but I really think that a physical connection and a You know an appearance has a lot to do with whether you're going to be Attracted to somebody in the long run Yes, I agree. Yeah, I agree. There's nothing better than live in person. I know we all believe it Um, what was that? I missed it. I said whether everybody else says that or not. I know we all believe it Yes, but don't you but let me ask you this because this is I'm I'm uh, uh, I I differ a little bit only because only because I mean I definitely agree that you have to have a physical connection, but I believe that when you fall in love with somebody online that If you meet them in person They don't necessarily have to be physically perfect or physically ideal or physically ideal what you think is ideal in every way Suddenly at least I think maybe this is true for for a lot of women because women are more emotional and less physical than men but I've met guys that are not that physically attractive, but because They're because of their intellect because of the way they speak because of the way they dress the way they carry themselves Uh, and after you've fallen in love with them online, they just become that much more attractive to you So there I don't think that That it's always there's always a disconnect when you meet them in person And they're let's say they're not as great looking as you thought they were but if they're a fantastic person I mean there's a there's an attraction in there in there at some point somewhere I mean has that ever happened to you emily? Oh, yeah, definitely. No, I 100% agree with that um But I just think that You know meeting somebody online the importance of you know getting to know who that person is When they don't have the time to sit down and actually craft and think about an email or they actually have to you know be themselves You know Immediately has a lot to do with kind of who that person is too Yeah, right because I mean in my particular case when I if I would have gotten to a point where I could have met this person Uh, and I told you earlier I was willing to meet him even in spite of the lie of the physical lie If he was in every other way the person that he said he was at I mean It look I got so emotionally involved He could have been blue coming off of the planet mars and I would have married this guy Like that's that's how fantastic. I thought he was see but I also think that I have never fallen in love with somebody just from you know talking to them online and I think that We need to you know as a generation that is really nurturing relationships from meeting online That you really need to meet somebody offline Before you really kind of take that next step. I agree and let me tell you something What you said a little while ago is going to become one of my new favorite models, you know, take the online dating offline Yeah, I think that's that's fantastic. I mean it I certainly Will never fall prey again. I hope not you know to to this sort of thing And certainly if and when I were to meet somebody online It's only going to be there's only going to be a couple of correspondences before Before we just have to meet in person. I mean, I'm just wired differently now after having gone through this experience Cassandra is is has an interesting question also What if you meet somebody online and they have Chatted with you live on camera. I mean, is it still considered a scam? I mean, I think just because somebody is willing to show you what they look like Maybe it is the real physical, you know, the real physical person, but that doesn't mean that they're not Misleading you in every other detail about their life. Absolutely. You know, like it doesn't mean that they're really a neurosurgeon Right. Well, and again, but that's something that can happen to you if you meet somebody, you know in the protest department at a grocery store That's right. Right You know, clarify that's not something that just happens to people who online correct And that's why I said earlier that I really think Um, and that's one of the one of the most important points that I can make in in this conversation Just in life in general that there are so many people out there that are misrepresenting their reality Who they are who their family is what their name is That's wrong on every level. That's wrong on every level and you just have to be very alert to the fact Not be naive, you know Be very alert to the fact that there are a lot of people that live their life this way Going around telling stories that aren't real, you know, just to feed their ego and make themselves look good in the eyes of the other person Yeah, you know, yeah, I think uh, well for me, I know this is more about Um, you wanted your show more about women's issues, but like for me, I'm gay and I know This is a generalization, of course, but I know that in the gay world, uh, You know, like you said before it's more about the physical as as opposed to the emotional So in the gay world, then it's more about sex. So The key indicators on those websites that you go for that is like if they show you a body part, but no full So they're always asking for pictures of full body including face head the whole body Right is one of the things because as soon as you see pictures that are not that then you assume that it's not a real person And the other thing that you have to assume is that most people even if they're showing their real picture That's the best picture they've ever taken So so i'm cynical. So I always think wow, they look good, but what what do they look like in reality? And sometimes the excuse to not send you a picture with a headshot is That well, I'm sending you a you know, I'm sending you a picture of my Genitals, I don't want to send email that also I don't want to send that picture email that has everything You know so you can see my face. Yeah, but you don't have to see that But the reality is if they're just sending you pictures of body parts and you you know They've never sent you that sexy picture with the face. Yeah that that's also a sign that you know that that maybe Maybe it's not their thing. Yeah Well, I know from my friends. They tell me that in the gay world. It's definitely Like 90 percent of the time it's not The same person that's in the picture So i'm assuming it's probably the same in the in the hetero world that you know that people are just Not who they they claim to be absolutely Yeah, we have to you know be cautious and And know that when we're dialing in to these websites. So emily, what are some of the websites that you use today and uh, do they provide any kind of? Um Instructions or Criteria that they follow to eliminate this kind of thing, you know match.com recently came out with um, it was all over the news. Um They were I don't even know how matching. I guess email addresses with a Profile like a profile. Yeah, like a sexual profile database. Uh-huh Um, which if you're that stupid and you didn't get a new email address after the fact, I mean come on, right? Right But that one you know that they can just create another email address and move on So, you know in all honesty, I think that there's a lot of I use personally and there's sites that I've tried everything And you know e harmony match.com plenty of fish jazzed Zeus. I mean you name it. I have loved to try it How about we is kind of fun. It's where you propose dates and and people say if they want to go on them or not But None of these sites can really protect you from online scams If you think about how many people are out there, you know online dating It's a huge huge community And I think that the most important thing is that you need to be careful of yourself and that you need to You know not be Stupid you need to really When you go on dates, you need to be safe. You need to yes Drive yourself. You need to you know, consider all don't get too drunk There's a lot of things that you know tips online that you can look up Where would be a good place to lift these things up? You know what off the top of my head. I if you just google online dating tips There's some great ones. Um, there's a blogger that I love eflirt expert Um, she's fantastic and has some great tips on what to do and what not to do in dating Emily what um, you have a fantastic blog as well Tell the audience where they can find you Thanks. Yeah, you guys can find me at um, www my life on match and more Um, and there I just really blog about my dating experiences and I love to get kind of feedback of what everybody else is going through um, I'm just like you guys and My dating life it has its ups and downs as well Um, and then I also you can find me on twitter, which I actually live tweet during my dates, which everybody thinks is hilarious Oh, that's cool. Can you repeat your blog again? Yeah, my blog is www my life on match and more And my twitter handle is just my life on match And so you do like uh step by step as you're dating what's going on on your twitter Yeah, I'm like, he's in the bathroom. He does not look like Clark Kent Emily, you know, I try to be try to be sly, but sometimes it's a little harder than others Wow, that sounds very interesting. I'd like to check that out for sure. I'm curious now But I think we run out of time, right? Yes Emily, thank you so much for joining us. Um, I want you to come back I want you to come back and join us again on similar topics Uh, I'm going to be online chatting with some of the people in the in the chat room after the show Thanks so much for joining us guys. It's been a blast and the hour just flew by Yes, thanks. I'll be on the chat in the chat room for a while as well. Okay, great. Thank you. Thank you guys See you next week. Bye