 Aloha and welcome to another edition of Hawaii's Living Legend Lawyers Project, brought to you by the Hawaii State Bar Association and Think Tech Hawaii. My name is Craig Weitfeld. I'm an attorney with Bays, Long, Rose and Hola and I'm a former leader of the Hawaii State Bar Association and have the privilege and honor of serving as host for today's program. Boy, I knew I'd get caught on that. The Living Legend Lawyers Project is an opportunity for us to meet and talk story with some of the attorneys who have been the pioneers in our profession here in Hawaii who have made a difference both among attorneys and in our community. And today's program called Promoting the Rule of Law, we have a wonderful guest, Ray Sanchu is here with us, a pioneer for women in the profession and for attorneys in general. Ray, thanks so much for being here. Glad to be here. Thank you, Craig. Great. Well, right now I want to start by just getting a little bit of information about you. How did you start into law and start on this road? Well, I guess I grew up in a family of PhDs. My father was a college professor, my mother was also a college professor. And so they said, well, I guess you'll be going on to graduate school and we'll plan for that. And so rather than going, I was thinking of psychology. But when I was in college, I took psychology courses. I found that everybody who was teaching psychology was a little bit neurotic. It was probably in the subject area because they're trying to figure out their own problems and so forth. Anyway, so I said, I think maybe I should go into law because I like things that have a beginning and an end. That was the second choice. It was teaching psychology or go to law? Practicing psychology. But, you know, of course, practicing psychology, there's never an end. You never find a resolution. Whereas, of course, with law, you know, we strive to move towards resolution. So I decided to go. Well, and then I was hesitant to go to law school because of the fact that I thought it was so male dominated and that it would not be a comfortable place for me. But I figured just going to go for it. So I did and I entered law school just at the height of the Vietnam War. And so they were, you know, joking that maybe it would be a lot of disabled men that couldn't go to war or women. And of course, luckily, I entered the law school and there was maybe 10% women and a lot of them were not straight out of college. A lot of them had been married, raised a family and went back to law school. But anyway, after I graduated, I thought, well, this is my chance to kind of move to where I want to live for a long time. And I thought, well, I'm going west. Either California or I was thinking California, of course. And then I ended up in Hawaii and I was assigned to the Hawaii Legal Aid Society. And I worked there for a while and then Brookhart was the public defender at the time. And I thought, you know, it'd be really cool to be able to just go right into court and build the confidence and get to know the system, which I did. I had about 130 misdemeanor cases when I started, practically the only one doing misdemeanors. There was another lawyer that did half-time misdemeanors. Anyway, so it was a great initiation into the... Did you enjoy doing that? Yes, I did. That seems like a really challenging way to jump right in. Exactly, exactly. But I had a lot of help. The judges sometimes were a little bit escance at me. Like, if I was in another court when my case was called, I'd come back into their courtroom and they'd go, where were you? I mean, one of you of them had a very, very stern attitude towards me like, you've got to prove yourself, girl, kind of a thing. And also, other lawyers that were practicing in district court at that time, you know, after a few months, they said, what kind of case do you have? I mean, like, I was the defendant, not as a lawyer. Right, right, right. And so, you know, of course, they always get confused and think that maybe I'm a secretary or a paralegal. That must have been difficult. Yeah, I mean, you know, I just kind of slough it off and figure, you know, I'm going to keep going, of course. And then I moved up to circuit court doing felony cases and that was a great experience. I probably had about 40 jury trials in a period of about three years. And... Did you enjoy going to trial? It was a lot of pressure, you know, making sure you get all your witnesses lined up. And then a lot of times there were two or three cases scheduled for trial on the same day, on the same week. Because the court figure, you know, has them all kind of lined up in case one or two were settled. So, but for an attorney, you know, not knowing for sure whether your case is going to trial or not was tough. But, you know, we had to be prepared. And of course, well, public defenders didn't have as many resources as the prosecutors, you know. So we could not rely on the one investigator we had, you know, to help us line up witnesses and so forth. But anyway, it was fulfilling. But after all those trials, I said, well, I got to move on to something else. So I worked at the legislature and then I opened up my own practice. I was taking just about anything that walked in the door. Well, Ray, let me do your own horn here for a minute, because somewhere along the line here, you decided that not just for me, I want to make things better for women lawyers as a whole. Exactly. And you're one of the founders of Hawaii Women Lawyers. Tell us about that. Well, while I was in law school, it was the watershed years of civil rights movement. It was the Warren Court. And every other week, you know, there was a major case decided by the U.S. Supreme Court about the rights of women, rights of welfare recipients, the rights of defendants. And I worked at the Maryland Attorney General's Office during the summer. And in the plaza outside the office building were women protesting and pulling off their bra and swinging it around. And I really agreed with all the things that the women's movement were moving towards at that time and to this day, of course. But so I figured, you know, that I would form an organization bringing women lawyers together. Because at the time, when I was a public defender, there were very few women that were visible to speak of. Most of them worked in insurance companies or in offices as somewhat of a legal assistant or they were not in court, in other words, every day. So it was the prosecutors and the public defenders that were the more visible ones. But so I thought, well, I'd wait till the first class of the UH Law School graduated, which was 1973. And no, I'm sorry. Yeah, I think 1973. And I recruited several of the law school graduates to help me get started. Well, I think we have a picture. We look at photo number three here. This is, I believe, a newspaper article that has you piloting up the 1978 Constitutional Convention and also the White Women Lawyers Foundation. Right, right. So there was a picture there of Patsy Mink sitting next to me at a women lawyers meeting. And the top picture is myself speaking at the White Constitutional Convention, 1978, where there was, since we were a very new state, there were a lot of issues that we had to deal with, such as the way to pick judges, a judicial selection commission. And then the OHA was formed, Office of Hawaiian Affairs were formed. And they gave a voice to the Hawaiian people and a bunch of others, environmental issues, which I think is the best of any other state that I know. And no nuclear power in Hawaii, several other very aspirational things that got passed. Because we have some other photos here and some Hawaii women lawyers. Do you have photo number four to show? And I believe that there are a lot of people that went on to careers in law, but in politics and other things, but went on to become judges and others. This is a group of Hawaii women lawyers, correct? Well, we were celebrating, I can't recall exactly who's success we were celebrating, but when someone got appointed judge, like I see Leslie Hayashi and Lee Crandall in the picture, I know for sure that when those two became judges, we all got together and had lunch and celebrated their success. So it was a very good network. Well, certainly, and you were the one instrumental in bringing that together. Right. Well, the formal organization of Hawaii women lawyers. Carol Manly was someone who who kind of carried the torch on because right after we formed it, we, I ran and was selected for the Constitutional Convention. So she was a staff member at the Constitutional Convention and she also took the reins of the Hawaii women lawyers and got things going more on an organizational basis. Okay, but this is all, and I'm just going to use it, the lawyers parlance. This is all non billable time. I mean, this is all efforts that you're making to better both the community, but in particular the community for the lawyers, for the women lawyers in our state and such. And you did that on top of raising a family, yes? Right. Absolutely. Two children, right? And you can tell me a little bit about them. Oh, yeah. They're wonderful children. One of them went into law. Yes. Our son, Derek, went into law. He was born in 1984. And our daughter is joining the UH faculty as a full-time tenure-track professor this fall. Oh, that's fantastic. So someone went into education, your family. My goodness. My father was a professor, as I mentioned earlier. Yes, so I guess it gets passed on in the genes. Well, I'll tell you where I'm going with this. Although the name of the program is promoting the rule of law, in addition to doing that, you've promoted women in this profession throughout your career. And you've done it professionally as a practicing attorney. But you've also done it through your role with our Bar Association, and we'll talk some more about that. But through founding and helping to found the Women Lawyers Foundation, all on your own time. And at the same time, you did that, and you were able to raise a family and your wonderful family to show it for that. I think there's a message here for women coming into this profession. And that is maybe there is a way to have it all, if you will. How did you do that? Well, I wonder that myself. I think being organized and trying to kind of compartmentalize the various parts of your life, you know, like do not hesitate to hire help to clean your house, to make your life easier and more organized. And just, you know, make sure your partner, whoever else, you know, that lives with you is also helping to take care of the children. And just, you know, various other things that is always in the mindset and the willingness to just put out. Okay, we're going to take a little break here. You're watching Hawaii's Living Legend Lawyers Project on Think Tech Hawaii. I'm Craig Wagner. I'm here with Ray St. Chu, and we've got a lot more coming. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Oh, my name is Mark Shklav. I am the host of Think Tech Hawaii's Law Across the Sea. Law Across the Sea is on Think Tech Hawaii every other Monday at 11 a.m. Please join me where my guests talk about law topics, and ideas, and music, and Hawaii Ana all across the sea from Hawaii and back again. Aloha. Aloha, and welcome back. This is Hawaii's Living Legend Lawyers Project. My name is Craig Wagner, and I'm serving as host for today. I'm here with Ray St. Chu, who's been telling us a little bit about her career, and more importantly, the impact that she's had on women lawyers throughout our state. Ray, you were telling me sort of during the break a little bit about some of the impact and some of what that meant to you over the years of working both professionally and on your own time in the community and such to improve the law, if you will, and improve the situation for women entering this profession. Can you share a little bit of that? Yeah, well, as I said earlier that there were so few women lawyers in Hawaii at the time when I started that I was looking for friends and people I could connect with and talk about cases, talk about issues that come up, and so, of course, finding, being a founder or instigator of getting the ball going on Hawaii women lawyers was an important thing. And as you can see from the previous pictures, we have a strong bond among the women lawyers that we're practicing early on, and I continue to be really good friends with many of them. And I think that's important, and that would be a piece of advice I'd give to all women lawyers is that they find people that they can relate to, they find mentors, they find friends that have similar interests or going through the similar... Build your support group, if you will. Exactly, exactly. Now, you didn't stop there, though. You could have, and it would have still been incredibly impressive, but you sort of parlayed that then into leading our Bar Association. So let's talk a little bit about that. How did that come about? And what brought you to want to do that? And then what did you do? Well, I just enjoyed a lot of the Bar activities throughout my career. And then, of course, at some point, about early 1990s, there was a group of us started the Hawaii Women's Legal Foundation, which... Is that that? I think we have that photo number one, if we could take a look at that. That might give us a little bit of a picture of, is that the Hawaii Women Lawyers Foundation? Yes. Yes, yes, yes. And that's... So, yeah, so we found... Well, the bottom is an article about the Hawaii Women Lawyers Foundation in the Bar Journal. We changed the name, in fact, to Hawaii Women's Legal Foundation, because it's not just about women lawyers. It's about women's legal issues. I think I saw a picture of you as a supreme there. Yes, yes. That was in one of the Hawaii State Bar Association annual dinner, in which the entertainment was the lawyers who didn't really have any talent. But we tried anyway, and it was a lot of fun. Yes, you were right there with Judge Murray-Milks and Sandra Sims and yourself. Yes, yes. Yes, so it was other entertainment, too, but that was a lot of fun. And I think the 1993, which is just over next to that, that was the first bar dinner, wasn't it? Yes, the very first, right, when Sherry Broder was president and we honored lawyers amongst us that are in the picture. But you had to be elected to serve as president of the bar. Right. And if I'm right, you were the third woman president of our bar. Right, right. Yes. The third Asian woman that was in 2011, I think, no, no, I'm sorry, 2008 was the, 2009. Okay. 2009. Okay, 2009. Yes. Okay. It was right after the... How difficult was it to do that? You're raising your children. You've got a law practice. How did you balance all of that? Staying up late at night. No, not really. I think technology helped. I mean, of course, that's more in the last 10 years, but just the drive and the willingness to kind of move up to the next level. True. Yeah, and I really enjoyed being a Hawaii State Bar Association president. A lot, many HSBA presidents have said that their year as the president was like a highlight of their legal career, and I can understand that because you're looking at the big picture of where the bar is going, where the lawyers are going, and how to improve their impact on the community and improve their own practice. It lets you take a macro view where you've been so involved in the micro aspect of practicing law. And I can tell you from that experience, because you and your husband Rich played a very large part in a decision of mine to pursue a similar path and such. Yeah. Certainly without many of the obstacles that you faced as you went into doing that and many of the other things you've done. But then you were instrumental also in taking what has always been the Bar Association and helping you create a foundation. What can you tell us about that? The Hawaii State Bar Foundation? Foundation, yes. Well, a lot of that came from my experience with the Hawaii Women's Legal Foundation. Okay. Because we are the charitable arm of the Hawaii Women lawyers. Right. And they're a membership association, but the foundation supports the membership organization in many, many ways. Not only financially, but other ways. And I could see how beneficial it was for both organizations to have a charitable foundation stand up next to the membership organization. And of course with the Bar Association, we have, well, probably over 6,000 members, but maybe 4,000 that are actively practicing law. So it's a lot of lawyers. What does the Hawaii State Bar Foundation do? Well, you are the treasurer. So I'm asking a question that is obviously rhetorical for me. I know the answer to that, but I also want you to be able to share that because you're serving as vice president now. You've served in the past as president of the foundation. Tell us a little bit about what, why, obviously there's enough of a reason there that you want to be involved. Our main goal is to help the Bar Association and to enhance their work. And also the very important part of being a lawyer is to provide services to the public. Pro Bono work, we have a rule in our Code of Ethics that lawyers must provide pro bono work and help the community. And, you know, so we raise money and we have a donor list from those who have... And it's number six there. Let me take a quick look at that. This is a donor list of fellows. A fellows of the Hawaii State Bar Foundation in which we solicit donations from individual lawyers that we turn around and give out to various people in the community who are serving the public. And more recently, of course, with the Big Island and Big Island volcano activity, people being displaced from their homes as well. So we've been helping with that as well. Yes, as well as Kauai. Well, let me ask one other question because I want to get this in because it fits right into the theme which is, what is your message to young women who are entering the profession now? Would you tell them don't do it or would you tell them do it and what's your message? Do it, do it for sure. Yeah, I think legal profession is well suited for women because they're very verbal. They're very organized. I mean, not that men aren't but that they should have the confidence to get into the legal profession. And the balancing act is fun. It's good. Yes. So I think we've already got the message out that we want 50-50 going forward as far as judges are concerned. But there are other issues such as that are coming up now such as sex harassment and women's choice, trying to kind of keep religion out of women's private decisions with their own bodies. And then of course the other thing of sex harassment, feeling comfortable about coming out about that to basically stem the tide and that it's not okay for men to act like boys will be boys type of behavior. Sure. And as lawyers you're armed particularly to handle that one. Exactly, exactly. That's fantastic. Well, not only are you a pioneer in this but you continue to do that and continue to be both an inspiration and a help and a support to those women entering the profession. Thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for thinking about it. And that about wraps up our latest episode of Hawaii's Living Legend Lawyers. Promoting the rule of law was our show but it went a lot further than that. And a big mahalo to Ray Sanchiu to Think Tech Hawaii and to the Hawaii State Bar Association. I'm Craig Wagner saying thank you for being here and there'll be another episode. So look forward to that here on Think Tech Hawaii.