 Welcome to Going Forward on Think Tech. Taking us forward, I'm your host. Our show today is called Jill and Jake on Opera. Now we're going to talk about a family of famous opera stars visit Hawaii. We address the issue of whether it's great to have opera stars like this visiting Hawaii. If you want to ask a question, participate in the discussion, you can tweet us at Think Tech or call us at Think Tech H-I or call us at 415-871-2474. Our guests for the show are Jill Gardner and Jake Gardner, husband and wife. Jill is a soprano and Jake is a baritone and they appear on Taking Us Forward Today to talk about the many roles they have sung at the Hawaii Opera Theater and other opera companies around the country. We're going to talk about opera companies around the country. I'm going to talk about the quality of opera productions in Hawaii. Now we're going to talk about the masterclass. If the orchestra or the auditorium, they'll be conducting during their current trip. Welcome to the show, Jill and Jake. It's great to have you. In fact, it's an honor and a delight to have you here. Thank you. We are. Absolutely. It's great. I love being near opera stars. They radiate, you know. There's something about them. They're so powerful personalities and all that. Yes. That's a part of the reason why I think we get attracted to doing it as well. Yeah. Well, I want to make a full disclosure, you guys. I cry during nearly every opera. Wow. Every opera. Yeah. And why do you cry? I don't. I wanted to ask you why I cry. I try it. I cry at Trabiana every time. Yeah. That makes sense. I know. Yeah. And I certainly try to cry at Tosca. I love Tosca. Madam Butterfly. Madam Butterfly. Always. I see you talking a lot about Puccini here. Yeah. Puccini was a master at that. So why do I cry? Can you tell me why I cry? Because you are taken into a story in that there's a human truth in that story and you bring your truth to that story and it causes you to cry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's the emotional context, I think. And if opera's done really well, then it's a cathartic experience. What you're watching on this stage relates to you and your life, maybe specific situations, but at least the human experience of what that is. And we're very happy when you cry. Yeah. Because these composers are the great channelers of Western civilization. Yes. They're all geniuses. Can you imagine sitting in front of a blank piece of paper and coming out with Tosca or coming out with Peter Grimes or something? It astounds me. So the genius goes beyond the music. It goes beyond the libretto. It goes to our hearts. It goes to reaching us, touching us, finding this kind of common denominator of human experience that is really something. Well, and that's why I think they oftentimes talk about opera is the culmination of so many different art forms put together on that are then presented on the stage. So you're it's a dramatic situation that's being highlighted completely by this emotional musical context. And then when you have really good singing actors and you have the theater with the costumes in the sets that are sometimes very traditional in their production, sometimes not. I think the atmosphere of being there with a large group of people butterfly that way, putting your attention on that. That's right. Yeah, that's why it's all encompassing. I went to the best deal one time, not to go to share. No, no, I understand it. They were playing Tosca. Yeah, it was a chair. There was one chair. That's right. Well, that's what I mean. You know, and sometimes for some people, that's a fantastic experiment, experience, because then it's basically the set is so minimal that it allows the audience and the performers to really base themselves within the structure of that human dynamic story that they're trying to tell. It's a huge challenge for us. Yes. I remember doing in Dresden doing a Don Giovanni in which there were no properties, meaning no props, no chairs, no just us on this. It was kind of it was a letter, a list of names, and it was kind of a cockeyed square that was raked. And this is more challenging for you. Because there's no, there's nothing to hide behind. There's no context. It's only about you. Yeah. It's only about you. And so there's no time off. So I need full disclosure from you guys too. Okay. At your favorite operas, if the ones that touch you, do you cry? Oh, yes. Oh, gosh, yes. Oh, my God. And always in the rehearsal process. And I've been a professional opera singer now for 12 years. And the majority of my repertoire that I've sung during that time has been Italianate and primarily Puccini. And there's always a point in the rehearsal process to where I challenge myself to go really very, very, very much into the context. Inside of in a first person sort of way. In a first person kind of context. So there's always the place where I become very emotional, have to, you know, stop the rehearsal, take a break. Yes, because you're challenging yourself to go to that level personally. And I like to do that so that then in my performance, I'm informed by that. I don't have to go there to know that that's living right inside of me. But I do know that that's oftentimes why people's reactions after my performances are very highly emotional. And then I know I've done my job. Yeah, well, if you are emotional, we, the audience, can, I like to get up front myself. Yes. We, the audience can see it and feel it and affects us. But there's also another side of it. That's one of the great adages. Yeah. Is that if you're as a performer, if you're feeling it too much, they're not feeling anything. So in the end, that's what she's saying. She goes to that place and feels it. We have a process. And then when you can't really go there and do your job, so at that point, you become a storyteller. That's right. And then that allows your audience to cry. If you're crying, probably won't sound that good. Yeah, right. Well, it's just like the Juicy Streetcar named Desire January. You were wonderful in Streetcar. Thank you. We saw that. We loved it. What a challenging opera. That's right. And it's a challenging opera. It's a very difficult story. And the role of what happens to Blanche Dubois in that, you know, dramatic arc is extremely troubling and difficult. So yeah, there were several times in the rehearsal process to where, because that was my debut of the role, that were very hard. But in the end, what ends up happening is that you have to go moment by moment by moment telling of that story so that by the end of it, the brokenness of that character is fully delivered because that's what you're bringing to the stage. I'm not reacting as to Blanche's complete and utter breakdown. I'm doing that breakdown. So it's a much more active stance at that point, which is where he would call it being a storyteller than it is me living it. So what she has is all of Blanche's information. She has everything that she says. She knows the historical context of this story. So she takes this all in. And then in the end, I believe if she really does her job to to the highest degree, she just stands there as Jill. And so that because Jill is also key in that portrayal because that's all happening at one time interpreting and yeah, we end out piece by piece and how it relates and travels through her experience. So you talk about historical context, you know, I think a lot of people do not know about New Orleans. They don't know about Tennessee Williams. They don't know what it's like. And I think, you know, I mean, and I know some I've been there and I appreciate Tennessee Williams. But when I saw you on the stage, I was transported to that time and place. I was there. And I understand the, you know, the depravity of it. I understand the problems in that time. And I lived, you know, I lived in that time with you. And that makes it very interesting because then you learn the history. You are transported. Well, and I think it's a particularly in today's opera world where being it's you have to be able to sing these roles. But a lot is being demanded now within our art form because we do have so much influence from TV, you know, Netflix series, cinema, theater. So it's really we're we're asked to not only be wonderful singers, but we're asked to be singing actors. So, and we, Jake and I really love that. Which is not to say that the early singers were not singing actors. That's true. But the style was very different. We're just like film acting has changed. Correct. So has our acting. Well, you know, the old story of the the big balabusa opera star standing there, belting it out, moving one foot. Park and bark, we love to call it. Park and bark. Park and bark. Which, you know. You heard it here I think. That's right. Well, if it's a really good barker, I don't mind. I don't either. We love great singers. I love great singers. For us, that's the old, that's the singing. But we are dramatic animals. And so for us, it is important that we do our research, do our historical context role study, so that when we are on that stage, we are inhabiting that character within that time frame. Personification. Personification. And it takes a lot of time, you know, like for something like Blanche Dubois, I studied that for over a year in order to be able to even get to what I wanted to bring to this. Well, in a funny way, that opera is more difficult, don't you think, given the historical context, given the dynamic of the opera, the arc as you call it. And the iconic nature of the play and also the the movies that were made of it, for instance. And the Americana of it. Yes. And well, but that's where as a southern woman, I was able, I think, to really bring that dimension, that dimension as well, that dynamic and dimension as well. Because there's its culture. You talk about singing, you know, and I think people, people don't fully understand what it takes to sing on stage as an opera singer. I think you're absolutely right. It takes a lot of time. That was a tendency to think, you know, well, do they have a nice voice? Yeah. But in fact, it's a huge multitasking thing that you're doing. You're dealing with technical things, you're dealing with your physical self, and you're dealing with your costume, and you're dealing with the story, and then you're dealing with a theater with two over 2000 seats in it. So the beginning is the singing voice, unamplified, reaching to the back. Unamplified is the operative work. You have to have the strength, and that doesn't come naturally. The strength, the balance, it takes a lot. So how do you achieve that? Well, many years of study, I think that, you know, for instance, I got into, I love to say that I got into opera through the back door, because I was raised as a pianist, and I studied piano all the way through high school. That's what I wanted to do, and I got a full scholarship to be able to go and get my undergraduate in piano. But I always sang. I sang in church. I did shows in high school, and so by the time I got to my undergraduate on the scholarship to study piano performance, I took a voice minor, and I had a fantastic teacher, and that's when my ability really showed itself. And so at that juncture, I entered competitions, and one had some success on the stage singing, and so everybody was like, why would you want to become an opera singer? And I was like, well, because I'm a pianist. I want to become a pianist. So, but the truth is, then I went on to do my masters in piano and voice performance, went on and did some young artist training programs, and then I went professional in 2005. So how does one become an opera singer? Well, we love to oftentimes and say that every singer has their own individual path, but you have to have an incredible background in music. You have to have genetic talent in music? You have to have genetic talent in music. Yes, I think so. I think so. But for me, that's one of the great mysteries, because why did I look at this and get introduced to this and go, wow, this is amazing. I really want to do this. I didn't have anything in my background that really pointed me in that direction other than that. In my family, some sort of musical training was kind of required for an educated person. Well, you guys are like an American phenomenon. What I mean is the classic opera stars, a generation or two or three ago, they didn't have graduate degrees. That's right. They started music through college and graduate school. It was a different path. But I think one thing is constant, and that is you need a teacher. You need a mentor. You need somebody to coach you and encourage you and make you do your best. They now call it having a team. And you see, I love my husband, but I have such admiration for him as an artist because he's been in this business for 45 years. I've been professional now for almost 13. So I have a lot of respect for how he has done his career. And it has influenced me. It has inspired me. But I think where Jake, when Jake started in the American operatic scene and when I came in 20 to 25 years later, it's very different now. But I think that the road still, if you're going to be a true and take your true to your art form, the road is still the same so that you have to have that kind of talent. You have to love this kind of music. You have to study your butt off in order to get better and better because the competition gets stiffer and stiffer. Another point. Yes. And there are more and more people wanting to do this. The teacher is the key. The teacher is the person who opens the door for you to look in. And if you have that bone in your foot, you see. I mean, if I had someone with the same teacher standing next to me who didn't, they would go and say, what? That's right. So it's kind of, it's a marriage between the teacher and the student. And unless a long time, in fact, unless, would I say forever? Yeah. As long as you're saying, yeah, they'll always be a part of that. Absolutely. So big question. This is, to me, this is really a question. I don't know the answer. I have no idea. Do you guys coach each other? Absolutely. Is that right? What is happening now is that this relationship, because Jake and I sing, but we always knew when we met that we wanted to teach. And now we have developed, we've been married 15 years, been together 19. But now we have, I think, really gotten into a place to where we are central to one another. Not that we don't have our own coaches or teachers, but we need one another as ears, eyes, everything in that process. The other part of this is, I'm going. I've been doing this 45 years. I still have people hear me, listen to me, give me suggestions. It's a study that never, never, never answers. It's like a boxer, you know, you've got to have somebody say, you're faving your way, you're faving your way. I just went down to do, was a quick job down in San Antonio. They lost the singer. They asked me, I came in late and they were all late. I knew if I hadn't sung it in three and a half years, and it was one that I sang for the first time here, actually, was a Bartolo in the Barbara Seville. And but so I said, yes, I'm knowing that she would be able to come to the last four or five days so that she could then, she's the final word on where I am. She knows me that well. We're going to take a break now, guys. When we come back, I like to talk about the roles you've had, the ones you've enjoyed, the ones you've enjoyed most, and the houses you played. But before we take the break, I have to ask you one more question. If you didn't know somebody at all, I mean a complete stranger, and you engaged in a conversation with that stranger, could you tell if that stranger was a trained opera singer? Could you tell? No. Because voice and singing is different. Yeah. That's right. Absolutely. Yeah, no. That's right. No, you probably not. You might have an inkling, you know, like when people talk to me, you know, they think I'm loud, right? Well, they'd be right about that. But I'm listening to you in the way you enunciate. Right. The way you breathe. Right. The way it all comes out, there's a certain resonance. I mean in all voice, there is music of some kind. Absolutely. You're saying hi. That's right. So I don't know. But you're right. I mean, it's two different things. That's right. I can't necessarily tell. Right. But I like to think I can tell with you guys. We're taking a short break. We're going to come back, we're going to talk about the houses and the operas, and we're going to make me cry some more. That's right. In the studio. In the studio. Yeah. You're watching Think Tech Hawaii, Hawaii's leading digital media platform for civic engagement, raising public awareness on tech, energy, diversification, and globalism. Great content for Hawaii from Think Tech. Some say scuba divers are the poor man's astronaut. At Dive Heart, we believe that to be true. We say, forget the moon. Dive Heart can help children, adults, and veterans of all abilities escape gravity right here on Earth. Search DiveHeart.org and imagine the possibilities in your life. Okay. Now you're playing Scarpeo. I am. I'm playing Tosca. That's right. Okay. That is a fabulous picture. Oh, that's me. That's a fabulous picture. Not that one. That's right. But you gave us one picture that I don't know if we other staff can find it, but I would like to look at this picture, study this picture. It's the picture where Tosca is killing Scarpeo. We have a quick story about the first Tosca we did together. How we know each other helps us go further in depicting that story. But the first time we did it, we fought. She was after me. What? You're trying to control me. I can remember we were in a restaurant just having a knockdown drag out. There it is. Now, with this drama there, I'll tell you now, picture burned to hold it right there. Just looking at it. But we oftentimes say now that we work on, we work through a lot of stuff in that rehearsal process right there. Yeah. But that's what he was saying. But now we're given that we know each other, that we, you can actually go further and be even worse and more bastardly because it's not, it's not someone you don't know. It's someone who gets it. You trust, yeah. Just in every performance of Tosca, when Scarpeo gets out there on the stage for the curtain call, am I right? Everywhere they all know, right? You boo Scarpeo. Well, sometimes. Not always. Not always. But most fun is the kids. They really always do. Yeah, because they see him as a villain. Yeah, well, he is. He is. He's not a nice fellow. So, you know, one time I went to the Met and was it Tosca? It might have been. And it was an opening night. The New York audience was very astute. And at the end of the program, I heard them booing. It was, it was Tosca. I heard them booing. The problem is they were booing everybody. And it was a very discerning New York audience. This is a risk in opera, isn't it? Yeah. This audience decided they didn't like the performance at all. Any aspect, right down to the conductor. Mm-hmm. And, you know, and that happens today. Does it really? Oh, absolutely. Does it happen only in New York or in Chicago or anywhere? Well, when you refer to the Met, I mean, you know, I think that there are a lot of, like the most recent production that they made of Tosca, they sort of put away the Zefarelli production. And the newest one that they have has not been well received by the audience from the standpoint of the set, from the standpoint of the direction. Sometimes it does have to do with the conducting. But, you know, I think that's the chance that they're taking when they update or change for a production is traditional as Tosca, which happens really between 24 hours, you know, on this particular date in June. That if, once you start venturing out of that world, not that we don't love the artistic risk, that that's because we have done a production of Tosca that has been translated into the 1940s, sort of 1950s fascist Italy. So it's been updated. And it can work. But I don't think it's successful, because that, the context of that piece is so specific. The so specific. Just having one chair there doesn't really tell the story. I think it is not one that translates well. Or putting Scarpe in an SS uniform, you know, people because that history is still very close to us today. And so the idea is to make them more relevant, but at the same time to put them in an SS uniform diminishes him. That's right. It's to me, I'm a classical guy. To me, I would rather the audience learn about the period where the composer created this instead of changing the period because the audience, they don't think the audience will understand the original period. Right. Let's look at the original first. Well, that's where, like what you were saying earlier, context, context, context. And that's where I think then the education up to the public on behalf of the opera company, you know, in metropolitan areas, Chicago, Houston, New York, Washington, San Francisco, you are going to have an audience there that probably has their big opera lovers and has have seen many productions. Have a lot of, have a perspective. Have a perspective. And certainly Europe even more so. Absolutely. That's why you see things in Paris. That's okay. But I think then it behoves the opera company to educate the public on what they're getting ready to see. Now, like Butterfly, for instance, they did an incredible production here at a Hawaii opera theater. So it was under Henry Akina. Under Henry Akina, who it was the story in the context, but it was in a minimalistic. Yes. I saw that. Canneco's, I believe, right production. And so, but, and it was received very well, you know, but I think they did a lot in order to prepare the audience and, and to educate people through production shows like this. And it was consistent with the cultural, the galvanist cultural tradition, you know. Correct. Correct. Speaking of Butterfly, do you guys ever have them? Yeah, Butterfly, oh my God. Yes, of course. Particularly for a debut. There's no way. You know, I've done, I did my 50th performance of Tosca last fall, for instance. And Jake said to me early on, when that was clear, it was going to become a signature role in my career. He said, they used to say when he was working in Dresden, as principal baritone there in Cologne, or rather in Cologne, they used to say all the time, you don't really know a role until you've sung it 25 times. And now I do understand. And you buy that, you accept that. Yes, because well, you can practice it, you can do it, but once you're in front of the audience with the onus of telling the story, it takes you about 20 performances to then say, to really wear it and know it, know it. So we're running out of time, and I do want to catch the most important thing, at least of your trip, I think. Yes. Just a master's class. Can you tell me what that is? Yes, well, Hawaii Opera Theatre is very special in the fact that they have had this Maisie Orvis Opera Studio, Young Artist Studio, but they also allow for many people within the community who are chorus members or who have a love for singing to be a part of this studio. I think it really started under Henry Aquinas Administration, but we're very excited that as Henry retires and they move into a new administration, they're wanting to continue to further this. And so this is our eighth workshop with the Maisie Orvis Studio, to where we've come in the past for four weeks, now we're here for about two, two and a half weeks. And a select group of people from the studio, we have 10 singers on this particular show that we're doing on June the 17th in the Sacred Hearts Chapel. So it's a performance, the public can come and see it. The trip ramping up to it. Yes, and the reason being that you cannot learn this in a studio, you can only learn this performing. So you have to prepare, and you have to give the person you're preparing a chance to try it out and have their butterflies. And then also the onus of being watched. It's huge. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we can't do what we do without an audience. It's a full circle effect, right? And the composers can't do it without us. That's right. So we get to hang out with them every day. The synergy of multiple parts. And the thing that we do is also, we put together a little collage of scenes. So it's not sort of walk out, sing, walk back. In an acidal format. So that we put it in sort of a theatrical juxtaposition, so that it's about putting some acting skills together. That's right. Along with the communication. That's what this is about. So if you want to participate, if you want to attend on June 17th. At 7.30. At 7.30. It would be in the chapel at Sacred Hearts. Do you have to call and go to the Hawaii Opera Theatre website. Just go to the Hawaii Opera Theatre website and you'll find the information about that. But we would love to fill that chapel for these 10 singers because they're terrific singers. That's, and we are so thankful that Hawaii Opera Theatre wants to foster this kind of local talent from our local Ohana. I think it's very important. Yeah. Hawaii Opera.org. Hawaii Opera. That's right. .org. But you know, we could do another show with some of your singers. Yeah, sure. You know, because you're going to be doing the same kind of coaching we were talking about before. We were there. We worked with their breath. We worked with their language. We work with how they manipulate their You guys are so full of togetherness, really. Can we, I don't know if you can do a duet on something or you want to go individual, but I would like to fill the room with some music. Can you do that? Okay. Oh, no, okay. We met at nine. We met at eight. I was on time. No, you were late. Ah, yes. I remember it well. We dined with friends. We dined alone. A tenor sang. A baritone. Ah, yes. I remember it well. That, uh, what was next? That, uh, brilliant, that dancing April move was June. That's right. That's right. It warms my heart to know that you remember. Yes, I remember from Gigi. Wonderful. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Jake. You're welcome. Thank you, Evelyn. Thank you, Simon. And, uh, thank you, Jim, for coming. It's been wonderful. That's right. None of this would be here without her. That's right. Thank you so much, you guys. I want to see you again soon. All righty. Absolutely. We would love to. And I can cry again. Yes.