 Fabulous. I believe we are live. Welcome everybody, everybody in the room and everybody who might be joining us from the the live stream to Muslims in the margins a joyful panel on under representative perspectives put together by RT is hack. Thank you so much for having me here RT. I'm going to go ahead and dive right in we are waiting on a few artists to join us and hopefully they'll, they'll make their way in as we get through our intros here. So my name is the scene man, I'm coming to you from. I am between Chicago and Houston I'm a cultural psychologist intersectional feminist activist educator writer and visual artist. But I would like to begin with a land acknowledgments in terms of where I'm speaking to you from and where a few of us are joining you from today. I respectfully recognize that as we come together today I speak to you from land that the Potawatomi Miami peoria, Sue and kick a poo people have stewarded throughout the generations. This is the land that we call home and on which we create art. We acknowledge that we are on occupied land that was forcibly taken from its original owners. And we affirm that while we cannot change history, we can work for justice and that justice begins with recognition and acknowledgement. The purpose of coming together today is to dispel the myth of a single story by sharing our own stories as Muslim artists, and to identify opportunities for growth within institutions and the industry at large to incorporate more nuanced and interesting stories. And I'm so excited for all of you to be joining together in this space today, because all of the amazing artists present contribute and just unspeakably unspeakably rich ways. So what I'd like to do now is go around to our zoom room I'm going to call on the artist and the appear in the order they appear on my screen. And I'd like to ask each person to please introduce themselves briefly briefly to the group. And so in fact, RT you are first up on my screen so I'll hand it over to you. Hi everybody, my name is RT as talk pronouns are they them. I'm also residing in Chicago the traditional homelands of the Council of three fires. I'm an actor director writer filmmaker, originally from Detroit. I also am a program manager at the Chicago Inclusion Project, an instructor at black box acting and an organizer with our host organization swanasa central. Thanks for being here. Thanks, RT welcome. Next. Sure. My name is Hamad Jodri. I am a playwright and a screenwriter. I usually base myself between both the UK and the US, but currently speaking to you from London. Wonderful. Thank you. Not yet. My name is Nadia noman my pronouns are she they I am also based in Chicago I'm a writer, actor, director, etc. Happy to be here. Thank you for having me. Welcome. Thank you. I use your next and please let me know if I'm pronouncing your name correctly or not at all. Thank you everyone. Thank you so much for having me my name is Issa Fatima I view she her pronouns. I am based in New York City, also known as the land of the Lenape people. I am a writer, actor, producer, director filmmaker. And as I wear many, many hats. I started off in theater turned my play into a feature film that we recently sold to Sony, which I'm super excited for the world to see soon. Thank you so much. Welcome. Hey, Hannah. Hi, I'm Rahana Lou Mirza pronoun she her. I reside generally in Brooklyn, New York, land of the Lenape, and sometimes I'm in Chicago I got to see our these work as a director, because she directed my play which is about there right now. Thank you. Wonderful. Thank you. Last but not least for now, Karim you're up. Hi everyone, Karim Fami, I am based and reside in New York in Harlem, and I'm currently zooming into you from Glencoe, Illinois, where I'm directing. I'm a director and a playwright and a screenwriter and I'm here in Glencoe directing my play, which is playing right across the street from where I'm sitting at Writers Theater. I'm here for rehearsals now. Happy to be here. Great, thank you for being here. And I'd also like to give a nod to sister Mona who is our ASL interpreter, and making this accessible for for more folks in the future so thank you and and currently. Wonderful. So before we dive into our conversation today I did want to flag that in the howl round live stream you should be able to submit your questions as audience members if you are joining us today. So please feel free to type those up as you as they come to you throughout the conversation, and we will be reserving some time at the at the end to address as many of those as as possible. Without further ado, let's go ahead and dive in. So the first question. It's again open open to the group please feel free to just raise your zoom hands as you feel inspired to answer. The first question is how does your art making center Muslim representation. And then perhaps just as importantly, how does it not. I can go first. Okay. I think I was making art about being Muslim when it was very uncool to do that in like 2009 2010. And it was sort of by accident. I did I wrote a one person play. That was all about the Muslim identity and I remember when I first performed it in 2011. 2000. Yeah, when was this yeah 2011. A lot of the press around it was for the first time ever American Muslim like stories on a New York stage. And, and it was very scandalous in a lot of ways for the Muslim community because some people were like how dare you talk about very personal intimate details of like women dating women and you know 2023. So I made that show into a film. The play was called dirty Paki lingerie. It's a comedy, and the feature film is a romcom it's called American ish, and to this day I've had Muslim people even in the film, you know, being offended by some of the of Muslim female life that we're depicting in this. So, yeah, so I guess it's my work has kind of always centered Muslim voices. And I kind of continue to do that I. I feel like back then there was nobody like the only representation of Muslims we saw in the media was like a dude with a beard and a sword, going a lot work for you know and people just thought that was Muslim. It was an act of activism to be like, this is what I look like, and I have a full time job working in tech at Google at the moment, and this is Muslim also. So yeah, I mean I think it's evolved over the years from just like that Muslim story for me to being like just looking around and being like well who else is underrepresented and not at the table and who can I give a seat to at that table. So, as I've kind of evolved you know I'm like very kind of thinking really deeper about the voices I'm able to bring to the table, even within the Muslim community that are very marginalized and that's black Muslims, you know, who are looked down upon within the community we know this from going to our own mosques and our own, you know, gatherings, Hispanic Muslims and others and I think the voices that often get highlighted are the South Asian and the Arab Muslim voices are the ones that we hear or see in the media so we're just kind of thinking a little or queer voices you know there are some now or LGBTQ in general, but just being more kind of, you know, in my unprivileged privilege. Who else can I bring to the table that is even like more unprivileged than I am so those that that's kind of like what I'm thinking about these days as I'm making art. Thank you so much is just a quick reminder to please use the zoom hand feature and idea. Thank you for your patience. Sure. Um, so I think I work a lot in new play development and I love working with Muslim playwrights who are developing work that are contributing to the canon. And it's really fun to be able to bring like fresh perspectives to the stage. And in my own work, primarily as a filmmaker, I love making films about young queer Muslims who are trying to figure out how to be in a world that really makes sense to them and I bring a lot of fantastical elements to that. So in providing space to for stories for for for queer queer Muslims to be on film I'm also making stories that have fantastical elements that don't necessarily have to be Muslim specific. So it's nice to be able to not only tell a story that is specific to me but also that can be seen and consumed by folks from whatever background you come from. Thanks. Thanks. Um, Yeah, I mean I think for me how my work is Muslim or is it Muslim it says it's really just a response to the world around me. And when I first started writing. This is gonna date me but I guess if I did smoke I would start a cigarette right now. Back in my day, but it was the first play I ever wrote was literally just a personal response to the world and because I saw the world through this certain lens it became very Muslim in that way but it also didn't sometimes so like the first I wrote with barriers and it was based on me and my sister living together downtown and 911 it happened and I was at work uptown and she was still a sensibly at our apartment but I couldn't get through because of the phone line so as I was running home I tried to find her and on time square they had like the news footage and I was like saw that and I was like gotta go gotta go gotta keep going and a woman was like foreigners you did this and spat on me and I was like it's cool I got spit on me but I'm gonna go check up on my sister and it's gonna be okay. And I think a lot of my perspective as a writer got saved by that moment. And, you know, as my sister and I were trying to process like, who are we we're like 20 something living together. And, you know, don't know what we're doing. We actually found a missing flyer with a woman, a brown woman and her eyes were burnt out the cigarette. And we were like, okay, we're like grieving this incident, but people who look like us are being maligned, obviously, and so from there on that kind of absurdity that text deposition of like, this is who we are but the world is acting like this and isn't this kind of crazy everyone has kind of really defined my work. And that way is Muslim and another way it's really not Muslim and so trying to navigate that is sort of my sweet spot. Thank you for sharing that and I'm sorry I'm sorry that happened to you by the way. My Spider-Man story. Thank you for myself. Essentially, I feel like I'm a self exploratory writer. I like to explore my own experiences make sense of them extract meaning from them. My experiences are to do with being Muslim as a Muslim myself. So through that I have inevitably centered Muslim narratives and centered Muslim representation. Perhaps what I have not done that is that I've never really conducted any sort of field research and try to represent 1.7 billion Muslim narratives. That's really a single story that I'm telling and it's not every Muslim's story. Yes, could you could I actually ask you a follow up to that where can you say more about being seen as a as a representative for a global population that contains an immense degree of variety. Yeah. Yeah, it's terrible isn't it. You know, I was like, who me actually wrote a play. So, yeah, I think it's a huge responsibility that can be imposed on someone. Some people do a great job artists, academics, scholars, public intellectuals. They do a great great job of telling stories about Muslims and representing the Muslim narrative as widely as possible. I've never wanted to be a spokesperson, and I've never wanted that pressure responsibilities wanted to be a writer and artists, and I've never acted or pretended to take that responsibility on, but it is true. Coming back to your question. People do want you to be the voice of a particular community which is, which is troubling on many levels one because it's just not a homogeneous community. You know, and I don't think the solution is having one voice or two voices I think do you think the solution is recognizing how diverse this community is, and, or then representing the, as many narratives as various narratives of Muslims as possible, and not just having a single spokesperson. I don't think that can happen. Yeah, thank you so much and I think that's why it's based like this is so so critical. I just want to also make a quick note that if any, any of you all want to respond to each other's comments feel free to please chime in. Karim go ahead. You know it's interesting because when I first started writing Muslim stories I think I was actually doing it a little bit out of a response for having seen how how it goes or what the effect is when Muslim people are at the heart of telling a story which is Muslim right and I, because I came to New York, also to date myself from Hannah, you know, probably met you way back then but like you know it was just a couple of years after 911 and there was, you know, certainly a lot of interest and like well how are we going to talk about Islam and America hate and a lot of the stuff that I was seeing was actually, I think, harmful I actually say it sort of caused harm, right. And, but I, you know, like many Muslims, you know, I think had a lot of personal feelings about, you know, how, how kind of like what Hamad was saying it's like it's not my job to represent you know a billion plus people on the screen, how do I do that right but I think at a certain point I was like well if I don't do this, then I am continuing to not offer that other perspective that I think was so vital because of the fact that the perspectives I was seeing were largely skewed, you know, so, and it's been, I mean even though it's been all of these years I think I'm still continuing to find the complexity in that because then when you begin doing it, you're also, to a certain extent dismantling the things that other people have been taught to believe over a long time so it's laden with a lot of levels, right. So what do you want to do something extremely truthful that often again, you know, I'm like you Hamad I'm sort of mining my own experience right, but often my experience isn't representational of what people think the experience is right so there's a wonderful complexity in that but sometimes the challenge because you know the theaters that are that are programming your work are saying well, you know, I don't know about the experience that some of the fellow writers here I've had but you know I'm, I'm often the first writer of you know Muslim descent that these people are are programming right I mean that's been the case for many of my production this season. So a lot of sometimes well intentioned and sometimes frankly frustrating pressure is placed and like, well you have to teach our audience about your community through this and I'm saying like, I cannot that that is actually not my responsibility you know, I can only speak from my own standpoint so it's, it's both a, it's an honor and a privilege and sometimes still uphill battle to do the work, only because I think our community specifically is still very much in a dismantling process of sort of how the, the negative reinforcements have have contributed to the view of our community over many years. Thank you. So I, you know, really looking back on to like when I decided like this was going to be the career path for me, it kind of came a little bit earlier in the sense of representation for me growing up by racial being half Arab half Southeast Asian, and growing up by the homogenous mostly Arab, like partly South Asian Muslim community outside of Detroit. I felt that ostracization like immediately, even though I went to an all Arabic school up until I was 13. There was just no concept of that you know, again dating myself back in the 90s. You know that doesn't that it didn't really happen. So, I think that part of what drove me to the type of representation I'm drawn to now which is specifically mixed by racial intersectional representation is because I want to be a beacon for other mixed Muslims. You know, who maybe aren't halfway and don't get to just like discard half of their identity to immerse in one culture. The idea of like hafness that we've been taught to have. Oh, like, oh, your Arab. Okay, which side your dad side. Okay, if not, then you're half, right. So, I just wanted to be this beacon to let all these other mixed or multiracial people know that like you're not half your whole. You are, you are lucky you have multiple cultures to choose from and like, don't ever let anybody treat like you don't deserve a seat at the table, because of who your other parent is, which I'm sure a lot of people here can understand like the commodification of our race and our identities in this industry is like, so hyper fixated on being like a single box like you got to check the single box. And if you don't, it's very easy to discard that person regardless of, you know, their talent or connection to the culture heritage because you know there's somebody else, there's somebody else who could do it. Yeah. And I think that in an American setting, which is a lot of the work I do focuses on like American born Muslim. When you look at the statistics, you know, 40% of American born Muslims are black. 25% of American born Muslims identifies multicultural or mixed but when was the last time you ever saw an interracial relationship, or multicultural Muslim that did not center whiteness. Like even in our stories that they got they got to be there. Why is the big question I have just why. I'm going to respond to that big question. As y'all are stewing over. Thank you RG for for those thoughts. Yeah, I just want to really appreciate all of all of the stories that are being shared. The importance of this thread of, of course, a, not a conflict but a code presence of personal individual particular life experiences the sort of fight to be present as an individual which I think members of the mainstream often don't have to fight to do right. So I'm going to respond to that question as individual first, and then also wanting to correct narratives toxic narratives that already exist in particularly in American and potentially other Western, I'm bad over in the, in the UK. In, you know, in Western context certainly close 911. So I know when, when y'all were saying dating myself or dating. I kept thinking like you are out on a date with yourself. Yeah, just to our thing that was really beautifully said thank you for saying that you know and just to just talk about a little bit about identity. It's so complex like I'm not racially Arab. I was born in Saudi Arabia, I lived there for the first 12 years of my life. So very much embedded in Saudi culture that was it, and I identify as Saudi. Both of my parents are very mixed South Asian. It's so difficult for me to sometimes navigate these spaces where even in theater, they're like well are you Arab know that you, you're not allowed to come to this thing unless you are Arab. You can audition for this thing we're looking for Arab, you can't. So it's just like always I'm like well but I do identify as Saudi, more than somebody you know who's like fourth generation removed Syrian who grew up in America with a white color and I'm like how are you more Arab than I am. So I think the end I do identify as South Asian also and I do identify as Muslim also. I think we have to just kind of we, we have to create a world where we're not policing other people's identity. We need to let people be able to self identify with you know what resonates with them. And something I think that I would love to like hop onto that and and like kind of turn the direction back and toward the decision makers, right, because it's not about who gets let in the room, instead of or because of you, it's like who are the decision makers who don't have a complex enough understanding of race and ethnicity and how they might overlap right like I want to make sure that like every time we're moving forward in this conversation, it gets so easy to punch down and be like well who took my spot or who kept me from being in the room when it's like actually what cutting said earlier, a lot of these decision makers who are doing this for the first time, but they are the experts are the ones telling you that like actually you're not Saudi even though you were born raised there right like, so I think that we should be hyper hyper critical of the people on top. Yeah, same that goes back to what Karim was saying earlier, you know, it's just like, sometimes people in places of power who are programming your work have a very specific lens that they see so many times, I've been told in feet. Oh, what a Muslim person really do that. Like, yeah, bitch, I did it I'm a Muslim person. You know, so it's like who is the person in place of who's looking at your work through that what is that lens that they're looking at it through. Absolutely. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I was just going to jump in on that in terms of, I mean I guess for better or worse, like my work, my art has evolved to the point of like, I'm all this is like I'm like look at here, look at here, look at here. And then I slide like my politics of my work in under that because of that's kind of just how I've learned to be as an artist and like quote from ocean long novelist somewhere. And it said that like, up to paraphrase is really badly but it's like so much work from people of color is looked at, not for the art, but just for the like ethnicity of it like so that it's like it doesn't have to be like artfully good it just has to like have a point of view. And it's just that to me like not true but it is I feel like sometimes true. From the gate key like the quote unquote gatekeepers or the powers that be or whatever mysterious being programmed something in that causes irreparable harm as cream. But you know, so I think, I think that there has to be a way to both expand the gate and allow for that flow of voices through. Matt. I just wanted to very briefly just second artist point about decision makers, I feel like decision makers people in power, especially in theater, they can select certain Muslims, whose work they want to produce. They often reflect about what they want to hear about Muslims, and what Muslim stories they want to hear, and sometimes we can fall into a trap of blaming those fellow Muslims, but you know fellow Muslims aren't the enemy. It's the decision makers. It's that they're, we need to put the spotlight on and understand that not everybody is going to reflect our experience of being Muslim. It's going to be a representation of the widest variety of being Muslim and Muslim narratives and it's on the decision makers. It's on us to put the spotlight on the decision makers to show and illustrate that variety in its fullest. Thanks. I'm really appreciating what folks are saying about, and what RT initially flagged about essentially systems of power and who holds the power right here, and these the boxes I said that you were describing in terms of having to be only Saudi or only a Muslim or because essentially are created by the power structures that are in place, particularly in Western regimes of art production right which have been dominated historically by white patriarchal heteronormative Christian norms. And it is, I applaud all of you for being in that space for fighting back against that space, and to also poorly paraphrase both bell hooks and Audrey Lord, your, your existence is resistance, your presence is resistance. So I thank you for that. Any other thoughts about this current question. I want to go ahead and pitch another question to y'all in terms of what can we do as Muslims to support one another's work we we heard a lot about our individual stories which of course are invaluable and important but how can we reach out to other Muslim art makers to support one another. My zoom screen is doing some things. Okay, there we go. And I go ahead. I'm sorry. Disadvantaged right now. But the, I wanted to shout out R.C. actually because R.C. did something that I think was incredible that they had additions for my play hate box for the roundhouse which ended up getting canceled due to coven. And then single handedly took the play, put up a reading of it made all the theater come to you. And then pretty much single handedly produced it and directed, like, got it into production, and directed the crap out of it and just did like an amazing job. And it's like, this will not fail because I will not let it fail. And I think that level of passion and generosity and vision is something that I find remarkable and want to try to model myself after so I just wanted to show that as like a model of like what can be done for other Muslim artists, and I appreciate it. And I had the privilege of seeing the, the fruit of R.T. and Jana's work recently and it's a testament to the hard work and love that went into it. Yeah, I mean this is a topic I'm particularly passionate about because I think what I, my own experience of so much of my career has been shaped by the fact that like early on I was sort of embraced by a group of fellow storytellers primarily in New York, you know, telling Muslim and Arab stories and that sort of encouraged me there so I felt like it's my responsibility to do that and, you know, so as a result, you know, there, there are now, you know, a few years ago at the dearly departed Lark, you know, let's all shed a tear, you know, for for that but, you know, with Mona Mansour and sort of creating a space for not specifically just Muslim writers but you know Middle Eastern writers to to have a home and now that group is continuing at Playwrights Horizons and I think what I've really come to notice that, you know, our community, particularly when you're talking when you're expanding it to sort of Muslim stories writ large and we've already touched on that. There's a lot of like internal conflict and internal, you know, like debate as to like who holds what part of the story. And I think I theorize I don't know this to be entirely true but you know that I think it's because of that difficulty and us speaking with a collective voice that I think our community has maybe not been as represented us as it could be as we see in some of our other, you know, sister community underrepresented communities so I know that I, I like to take it upon myself to say like, okay, you know, I'm creating the sort of very specific thing that I am passionate about, but that's not necessarily going to be the thing that you know Theater X over here wants or you know this producer want you know, but I could be like, you know what, have you heard of, you know, my friend, Isa, or have you heard of, you know, my friend, Rihanna or you should really look at this play. And I think that it sort of behooves us to all continue to stay very engaged with one another's work and, and promote it and celebrate it which I think is like happening I know Artie you're really spearheading that a lot here in Chicago and, you know, we've newer theater has tried to do the same in in New York and there's monotonous as well that is doing that at a nationwide level but I think the more of that, that our community embraces. I think we're going to start to see a proliferation of those stories because it, it, it, I think we have, we started we started later and we continue I think for good reasons to rub, you know, there's a bit of sharp bias in terms of how we're going to speak collectively which I think is vital to the community, but I think the more that we learn how to embrace that. I think a lot of good will come from that, you know, for all of us. Yeah, thanks for that cream. A quick follow up thought slash question about that. I'm also curious to hear everyone's thoughts about what kind of support you might receive from the larger Muslim communities that your members of so not just theater communities not just artistic create communities but how has your experience been there and how have you been supported by by your larger Muslim communities or how have you not and what are areas for improvement there. Here I'll go first so I think just in general like showing up because here's the thing like we have a lot of amazing films TV shows all this stuff right again it may not represent my experience of being a Muslim woman in the world, but it is a Muslim and I think sometimes in our communities we love to hate on people and we're like why do they show this Muslim and this is all wrong. And I think just kind of moving away from that and being like hey let's celebrate this person getting this far all on their own and let's as a community support them because more work will not get created it's just we have to show numbers. We have to show that the Muslim communities is interested in this TV show in this film in this play, and then more things will get commissioned and be put on the in theaters or on the air. So I think as just a general as a community, even if you don't agree with someone else's art. I think as painful as it may be we have to show up, and we have to support and we have to say, this is Muslim it is a single story. We support it as a community that I don't know how to get our community to do that, because I think people who are doing that are other artists at this point, will we understand this point of view and we will support it but I. Yeah, I would love to hear what other people think about that within our own community. Thank you guys. Just a quick reminder for the audience members for listening in through how around please feel free to submit your questions in the chat feature. Nadia go ahead. I think one of the things that I found when I first started as an artist both as a theater maker and as a filmmaker is that there are people who are going to like champion you hard and it's awesome to receive support where folks are like able to be critical of work and also be like, I'm so glad you're doing this like keep going. One of the one of the biggest experiences that has changed the way that I sort of make my art is there's this Muslim film festival called the Oscars and they encouraged me to make my first film I remember at my heart Halal Fest back in like 2019 RT was there as well. We were at this booth they were right next to me and they were like hey you're an artist make a film if you want to work with us make a film and they encouraged me to make my first film. It got into the festival and the the let me tell you the sheer amount of support and championing that they have done for Muslim artists across both Canada and the US and globally is amazing so like organizations that that really are there to be like we recognize your Muslim and we want to give you a platform and we're excited to see the work that you do for our community, no matter what, like it's it's really something amazing to feel supported like that so continuing to show up and show out is like definitely something that I would love to see more of in our community. I'm glad you had such a positive experience. Come on. Yes, again showing up showing up in numbers it'd be great to see Muslims who show up for Friday prayers at the mosque, same numbers and the same people going to theater and showing up for a Muslim play I'd love that and I think it's about inculcating a greater culture of going to the theater and engaging with the arts and and really even reaching out to insulated Muslim communities have never gone to theater before. And I'm trying to get those communities come out and really to support Muslim artists and Muslim artwork, even if it doesn't chime in with your own experience. Having said that, again, shifting the spotlight onto decision makers, I do think the emphasis has to be on theaters on film production companies, marketing departments outreach programs to reach out to Muslims. Right. And again, reaching out to Muslims, not always the kind of Muslims you like. Not the kind of Muslims whose opinions chime in with yours. Right. But they're still part of the community they're part of our society, and, you know, discounted tickets, just letting them be aware of that this is happening, making a welcoming space and so forth. So again, I do think it's on the decision makers, and it's on the people in power to really reach out to Muslims as well and help them and give them a space to really show up and feel welcome. So there's two questions I wanted to answer in there and the first one I think is a kind of posed of like what can we do to get more Muslims like in our spaces and like first floor this was the first Muslim story that first floor has ever produced so shout out to them for finally getting it done. And because of that I felt like they were really upfront and the fact that like we don't have connections for these communities and we need your help. That has not always been my experience with other theaters. Other theaters will be like well this is how we market this is when we market this is who we market to and people will show up because we are this theater company. But they were really really great and flexible like Hamad said the decision makers were great about being like, yes, what do we who do we need to reach out to. When do we need to reach out to them by which is a big deal because trying to get Muslims to do things last minute that they've never done before. Like it's not going to happen. So some one of the things that I did do and it's a line actually in Rihanna script that like really rings in my ears every time I think about this conversation, which is like you know, I, I want support of my community a community that I've not been in touched with and you know, he says what have you done to deserve that and he says I exist. And that's just not enough actually. So like are we going into community centers like in Chicago. I reached out to studio salon. I reached out to Muslim writers collective. Not only that but I reached out to individual organizations that were more like racial race space like the Chicago Asian network and I was like hey we've got this great all Asian cast and production team so that we would really love for you to like center our work. So it's not just about like expecting people to come because you've created representation but like are you going to mosques even though it's uncomfortable for me to go to a mosque and stand in the women's section like, are we meeting the Muslims that might not agree with our work but like can we get them into spaces anyways. And so I think that like I really wanted wanted to put that onus again on the theater company because I don't think it should be the individual artist responsibility, but when someone doesn't know what our community layout is like the very least we could do is, is give them an overview of how to connect with these people and be willing to put our bodies, unfortunately and uncomfortable spaces in order to make those cross cultural connections. Yeah, and then I forgot the second question so I'll see my time. Thanks if it comes back to you just let us know. Yeah, I am jumping off of that of that hospitality idea I think the space needs to be hospitable for Muslim to come share in the moment and I find that that a lot of that is on the theater to to make it a place where you make you feel like you're welcome there that you're not going to be under attack for being who you are and I think a lot of that has to do with figuring out like, Is this a good time right now for this performance or even as simple as like if we're serving food here do we want to include whole options and even say it up front so that we know. And I think that sort of thinking through of like this generous hospitality concept is something that is in the making but hasn't quite reached like each audience from theaters in a way that I would like it to be. And then secondly in terms of like how have like non artists community have like impacted my worker I think that was the original question of like how how that has happened. I mean I think for me like early on in my career when I was running a theater company and a fellow Muslim would be like how can I help this seems interesting what you do. It's like, I was like, what do you do like what would you like to do is kind of question back and like, you know I had a now became a friend like was like I do databases and I'm like wonderful could you send out an email for me. These people and like fellow Muslims and like create a database for me and like that sounds really bad. It was for my theater company. And then like another one was like I like building things I'm like would you consider building a set for me like to do like a show and so. Things like that of like community involvement. It was how I've created community outside of the artist pool of like, this is what I do and I know it seems very different from what you do but like maybe there are ways in which we can find overlap, because there are similarities already that we have as fellow Muslim. I don't think that sounded bad at all I think that's quite genius in fact. As a creative person myself in in a Muslim community I know how oftentimes it can be ostracizing or you might be seen as the weird one or you're off doing something and nobody really gets it. And so I think it is very smart to connect with folks in terms of their own expertise and to show them that their work also can contribute to to the creative arts and in these particular ways. On that note I'll go ahead and kind of transition us into another question. I remembered my second thing can I go ahead. Yeah, absolutely. So what can Muslims do to support each other and I kind of wanted to echo back to Rihanna said about two things. One prioritized putting Muslims in your show, like if you've got a Muslim show, let's get a bunch of Muslim artists let's make this room happen but in real life, you know what I mean. And one of the things that happened is that like Rihanna, what she left out of the story is that I cold emailed her and was like, Hello stranger, it is me a person with zero qualification but could I direct your play because I love your play and I'm from the place where it takes place and it like resonates in my soul from top to bottom right and she took a chance on me she an established player I took a chance on me an amateur. And this is an amazing response to what happened. And then vice versa when I was auditioning for this role in the non equity scene like there was an actor who had been under study city up until this point nobody had given him a chance. He was Muslim and he was South Asian and he was perfect. And like I decided to do the same thing. So letting that trickle down like someone might not be the shiniest someone might not have gone to grad school or have had all the credits but like, if you want more Muslim work put Muslims in the room if you have that power, kick it back they might not have been your first choice but like you never know what that ripple effect is going to cause and like honestly Rihanna taking that chance on me has forever changed my career and like my life so I also want to be the beacon for other people to be like hey you don't have to have experience whatever that might mean. If you're passionate about the work you know that culture in your bones you go do it and you figure out how to get it done. Ask for help we're here. Sorry. You're going to make me tear up over here while I'm supposed to be moderating. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that and I second that and echo that in terms of don't, I would encourage you to not look at what a person looks like on on paper because again who created the system of the paper and the institutions that are giving these degrees and whatever qualifications. So with that I do want to transition into sort of a resource based conversation in terms of what resources might you all suggest in for somebody who might want to move forward in producing more nuanced Muslim work. Again, graciously volunteer to create a cumulative list that they'll post later on how around website so if anybody wants to reference this again please go and take a look at the website afterwards where this the recording of this conversation will also be posted. So to start us off with are the Riz Ahmed test, which I didn't actually even know existed and I'm so grateful to know that it does it's essentially the Muslim version of the Bechtel test if you're familiar with that which is representation of female characters or women identifying folks but the Riz Ahmed test basically gives you five questions regarding Muslim representation. And if the answer is no, I believe to any of those, or excuse me, yes to any of the questions. If you should not move forward with producing that particular work you need to make some major changes before you do and and again the the link for the Riz Ahmed test will be provided on the hell round website. If it does pass this test, or if you feel quite confident and what you're producing the blueprints pillars funds has a lot of resources that can help you move forward with producing, producing this particular work. So a number of theaters that support Muslim centered work and including Silk Road Rising Golden thread theater and your theater which I know was with already mentioned during the conversation. So, if any of you have resources or recommendations for particular institutions that you would like to direct people towards that would be appreciated. I think it would be great to create a list of Muslim artists, maybe even in theater, because so often I see big theaters just like they work with the same five people. Even if they're not Muslim it doesn't matter they'll just cast them in their place about, like you know a South Indian getting cast as an Afghani is just, it's silly. Why would you do. So it's just like that kind of resource if it existed I think it would be great. Well thanks cream. Yeah I mean I already mentioned I mean I think you, you've hit a lot of them, you know, the sort of what I would call the historic theaters that focus on on these stories Silk Road, nor Golden thread. So I think they need, I think it would be good to sort of steer more people towards monatma, which is an organization that has sort of a national national profile in terms of uplifting those stories. So I think it's, well you can look at monatma, the Middle East North African Theater Makers Alliance or theater Alliance I think is what the acronym stands for. There's not really any sort of public online presence but if anyone is interested in the sort of new model of the, the Middle Eastern American writer's lab as it was called at the lark which is now called the swana swana makers. Gosh, forgive me it's like my own group and I, we've just recently changed the name. So I want to uplift may true half Ali who's a wonderful dramaturg and playwright, who is sort of co spearheading the initiative with me in New York to create a drop in space for swan also writers to gather every month, which we do on Monday nights and it's, unlike the lab at the lark it's totally open for any creator to come and drop in and listen and be a part of a community and share pages to anybody who is interested in knowing more about that. I would just say, you can reach out to me directly I'm happy to provide my contact information so that you can participate in that which will start again, most likely in September. I'm getting a lot of hands go go up which is exciting to me. I do want to flag the time we have about about 10 minutes left. So I'm going to request answers be about one to two minutes please, because we have a couple more questions we want to discuss. I think your hand was up but did you just lower it. Oh, I don't know. Okay, okay. So I just wanted to actually mention in case nobody knew everybody on this call and everybody who's Muslim who's listening to this call should sign up for the pillars fund they've actually do have a Muslim artist database, mostly focused for film, but please do sign up for that. So as well I wanted to mention that the pillars fund has something called the Muslim blueprint, which the way collaborated in with res Ahmed on that basically gives guidelines for producing Muslim work in TV and film. So that is something that would have to be translated for theater but it is a resource that does exist and a lot of these things like, you know what the difference between the line producer and autistic producer it's it's like, same thing. Right, so we're looking at parallels in those industries using that resource. Thank you. Yeah, just quickly, Islamic scholarship fund, which has been around for 10 years they give funding to films their application deadline is open right now until June 12. So if you have a feature a documentary a narrative short. There's also a specific fund this year for writers and a lab that's associated with this so if for either and if our theme stories and you have to be a Muslim writer. If you're interested in that just go to Islamic scholarship fund they're on Instagram and everywhere and Islamic scholarship fund org online and apply. Amazing. Thank you. Just in London, there's a Muslim theater company called Kayal theater k h a y a l. They do great. They've been doing great work for Muslims for many, many years now so if you're ever in the UK. If there's somebody you want to collaborate with and they're a touring theater as well. So they might be doing work in the US but hi all theater to tell Muslim stories throughout Muslim history and yeah there's somebody who do great work. So, I want to take a minute to present a question from the audience to you all that I think is a wonderful question to sort of wrap us up for today. This person would love to know what kind of dream roles or dream stories you would like to see for Muslims on the stage. Yeah, I would love to see like genre specific work that has nothing to do with being like Muslim as as trauma. I would love to see like sci fi Muslim work. I would love to see like a horror play that's about like Muslim work you know what I mean. Yeah, so high high stakes genre specific Muslim almost characters but has nothing to do with our struggle or our trauma. Love it. Not yet. I'm going to echo that like sci fi absolutely I don't know if y'all have seen polite society but that is like exactly the type of work I have been looking for like it's so smart. And it's so it's it's practically genre defying and I would love to see something like that or like a queer Muslim romcom like I'm here for it I would love to see some lovely fluffy arts that is made that centers queer Muslims. I agree to light society is amazing and also, I believe Nadia Monsour also made be our lady parts, which I recommend it's a British show about an all female punk rock Muslim group. Any thoughts on this question in terms of dream roles. Dream stories. If not, I want to go ahead and wrap us up for today I'm sure all of us could could spend multiple hours discussing the very important things that we've been discussing today. I want to offer my deepest gratitude for everybody who has been present today for all of your thoughtfulness, all of your insights, all of your vulnerability, truly truly appreciated. As a younger person yeah I didn't I didn't think I would ever be in a space like this so I thank you RT for organizing this and thank you everybody for for being present. I think the closing reflection question that I want to give all of you a moment to potentially answer if you have any thoughts. Whose voices were missing in the room today right in in hand in hand with our gratitude for being present today. There are voices that are not present as well Muslim voices that are not present. And what might we potentially do to invite more more people in. Come on go ahead. I think the most obvious one that stood out to me is somebody who's African American Muslim. We were talking about over one third of the American Muslim community is African American Muslim and personally coming from Europe and spending almost a decade in New York and in America and being around Harlem and being around going to mosques where African American Muslims are very dominant and African American Muslim leaders. I learned a lot about how to be a self confident Muslim right growing up in Europe being a European Muslim. I think there was love insecurity about how to be a visible Muslim and so forth but I learned that you know I learned a certain defiance from African American Muslims and I see that and you know artwork and be, you know, as a step forward it's an ongoing legacy but as you know as in the terms of next step that's since you asked that's who'd be missing. Yes. Thank you. Any other thoughts. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry. Oh, go ahead. Absolutely, I was just going to say I read a statistic that the Hispanic and Latino Muslim population is the fastest growing population in America right now there's also a lot of trans theater artists that we could engage and we never really hear from that. So, yeah, I mean, that's I also wanted to mention like aside from, you know, being biracial and having biracial representation there are like no East Asian Muslims here. Not only I think is that like reflected about the attention of our community for like positive representation, but also like the ongoing like the ongoing dehumanization of weaker Muslims and China and it is nowhere near on like the general radar compared to like Palestine, which by the way free Palestine free Palestine free Palestine but you know like it's just doesn't it doesn't it doesn't get brought up as much and there are no East Asian Muslims here, even though there are so many in the worlds and I'm again, I'm the curator of this right so it's like my circles, even someone who's in the community my circles are so homogenous that it was tough to find people who are all available for this time frame from every single different right. So, yeah, I just want to thank you for bringing attention to that and also say that like, yeah I take full responsibility as the curator for not having our community properly represented in a panel about marginalized Muslims will do better next time. Yes, absolutely. I have faith in you. Yeah, I think this is a, I mean you start here and then you start you can build. You can't start up there. So, starting here is great and I actually, what I realized is as a child of a Filipino mother and Pakistani father and my mom converted. She grew up around a lot of converted thousands, you know as a little kid, and from all over the globe and so I think I actually appreciate that perspective as well because I think it's a really interesting one to that could be used in the future. Yeah, I appreciate that I was I was also going to flag converts essentially and the convert experience and how our sisters and brothers may or may not feel welcome in in spaces that many of us have been born into any final thoughts from anybody that they would like to share. If not, I again just want to express my deep gratitude to everybody. Thank you so much for being here we are at the hour so we do have to conclude. And all audience members please do check out the recording of this share the recording of this on how around. And again the resources that we've discussed will be there. Thank you so much for, thank you so much for being present. Bye everyone.